SB 3.25.4 – Qualification of the Speaker and Hearer

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Three, Chapter Twenty-five, “The Glories of Devotional Service,”

TEXT 4

sūta uvāca
dvaipāyana-sakhas tv evaṁ
maitreyo bhagavāṁs tathā
prāhedaṁ viduraṁ prīta
ānvīkṣikyāṁ pracoditaḥ

TRANSLATION

Śrī Sūta Gosvāmī said: The most powerful sage Maitreya was a friend of Vyāsadeva. Being encouraged and pleased by Vidura’s inquiry about transcendental knowledge, Maitreya spoke as follows.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Questions and answers are very satisfactorily dealt with when the inquirer is bona fide and the speaker is also authorized. Here Maitreya is considered a powerful sage, and therefore he is also described as bhagavān. This word can be used not only for the Supreme Personality of Godhead but for anyone who is almost as powerful as the Supreme Lord. Maitreya is addressed as bhagavān because he was spiritually far advanced. He was a personal friend of Dvaipāyana Vyāsadeva, a literary incarnation of the Lord. Maitreya was very pleased with the inquiries of Vidura because they were the inquiries of a bona fide, advanced devotee. Thus Maitreya was encouraged to answer. When there are discourses on transcendental topics between devotees of equal mentality, the questions and answers are very fruitful and encouraging.

COMMENT

The present verse appears to be very simple—that the most powerful sage, Maitreya, being encouraged and pleased by Vidura’s inquiry about transcendental knowledge, began to speak. But within the words of the verse are instructions about the qualification of the speaker and the hearer, which we should understand. Here, Maitreya is called Bhagavān. Bhagavān means one who is full of opulences. Of course, only the Supreme Personality of Godhead is complete in the six opulences, but someone who has surrendered to the Lord and is blessed by the Lord can also be called Bhagavān because he is the representative of the Lord. He repeats the same message as Krishna.

And it is mentioned, dvaipāyana-sakhas, that Maitreya was a personal friend of Vyasa. Vyasa is also called Bhagavān because he is the literary incarnation of God, and the spiritual master or the speaker on the transcendental subject is the representative of Vyasadeva. Therefore, the appearance day of the spiritual master is celebrated as Vyasa-puja. He is the representative of Vyasa. So, the speaker should be an authorized representative of Vyasa. He should have practically the same qualities as Vyasa. He should be learned in the Vedic scriptures, and he himself should follow the Vedic principles. Then, he can deliver the transcendental message. And the listener also must be bona fide. And do you know what the main qualification of the listener is? Can anyone say what is the main qualification for any student or disciple? He should be inquisitive. He should be eager to know the transcendental subject. And here, Maitreya was pleased with the inquisitiveness of Vidura.

Of course, one should not inquire in a challenging mood. One should inquire in a submissive mood of surrender and service. Lord Krishna Himself explains the same fact in Bhagavad-gītā: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā, that when the student approaches the teacher for knowledge, he must surrender, and he must ask questions and render service. The fact of asking questions is the central point. Inquisitiveness means that the student is interested in the subject. The subject is what? The subject is how to get out of the material world and go to the spiritual world to serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore, Bhāgavatam says, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, that one should approach a spiritual master, or surrender to a spiritual master. Who? One who is inquisitive. Inquisitive about what? Śreya uttamam, the highest benefit. In Sanskrit, there are two words: one is śreyas, and the other is preyas. Śreyas means ultimate benefit, and preyas means immediate gratification. So, the student or the disciple should be interested in his ultimate benefit. And what is his ultimate benefit? To serve Krishna, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ. Everyone is self-interested, and there is no harm if someone has his own interest in mind because everyone does anyway. But the tragedy is that most people do not know what their real interest is. They do not know that their real interest is to serve Vishnu and go back home, back to Godhead. But when someone, by the association of devotees, by the mercy of saintly persons, understands what is the ultimate benefit, and he becomes very eager to know more and more about the ultimate goal of life and the means of attaining the ultimate goal, then tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Then he should approach the master in the subject.

Sometimes, especially now in Kali-yuga, people approach saintly persons with inquiries about material matters, about preyas instead of śreyas. They want to know how to invest their money to make big profit. But a devotee will not respond to such inquiries. A devotee will tactfully avoid such materialistic persons. Like Gaura Kishore dasa Babaji, he was very sensitive to materialistic persons who wanted to bother him for material benefit. Because he was a renounced saint, many persons knew of him and went to him for blessings, material blessings, āśirvād. And he did not want to be bothered by such persons. So, he used to avoid them by going to some dirty place where people would pass stool, and where others would not come and bother him because they were not qualified inquirers. But when the inquirer is qualified, then the devotee is very pleased to speak, and he does not have any reservations about giving all sorts of knowledge to the sincere inquirer.

The example is given of the cow: that the cow becomes very pleased when the calf comes and wants to drink milk. The cow is actually waiting—when will the calf come and drink my milk? And when the calf comes and shows eagerness to drink, the cow becomes so pleased and gives her milk as much as the calf can take. So, in the same way, saintly persons are very anxious to give what they have. They are just waiting for the sincere soul, like the eager calf, to come and drink. But unfortunately, in Kali-yuga, such sincere souls are very rare. Even persons who are interested in devotional service often have material motives. They come to serve the Lord with some material purpose in mind, and they want some material reward in exchange for the service. Of course, by the mercy of the devotees and the Lord, such materially motivated persons can also become purified and freed from extraneous material desires. But real devotional service is free from any other desire besides the desire to serve Krishna. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ, there should be absolutely no other desire except the desire to serve Krishna. So, when the person understands that his real interest is to serve Krishna and go back home, and he no longer has interest in material affairs for temporary happiness, which ultimately ends in distress anyway, then he will be anxious to ask questions about the transcendental subject. And asking such questions is devotional service. It is one of the first items of devotional service. Lord Chaitanya has instructed Sanatana Gosvami about the various items of devotional service. And the first items mentioned by the Lord are guru-pādaśraya, take shelter of the spiritual master; dīkṣā—take initiation; guror sevana—render service; sad-dharma-śikṣā-pṛcchā, inquire and receive instructions about eternal religious principles. It is mentioned, pṛcchā, asking questions, one of the first items of devotional service.

Sometimes, at least, I had the doubt whether I should disturb Srila Prabhupada by asking questions because we were always conscious of the fact that Srila Prabhupada was a pure devotee, Krishna’s representative, and he had so many things to do. So, we were always considering before asking any question or doing anything, whether Srila Prabhupada would be pleased or not, whether we would be disturbing Srila Prabhupada unnecessarily or not. So, one day in Amritsar, in northern India, Srila Prabhupada and the devotees were invited to one house for prasāda, and after prasāda, Srila Prabhupada and the devotees were offered rooms in the house to take rest. This was the Vedic hospitality, especially in the early days in India. All of the respectable gentlemen who invited us for prasāda, they would always offer us some place to take rest after prasāda. So in Amritsar, we took prasāda at the house of the king or some member of the royal family. Of course, there are no kings now, and after prasāda, he allotted about five rooms to the devotees where they could take rest. So naturally, being with Srila Prabhupada, we were thinking of him and discussing about him amongst ourselves - discussing about his characteristics, discussing about his activities, discussing about our relationships with him, and so on. So then I raised the question that sometimes I have questions to ask Srila Prabhupada, but I am not sure whether I should ask or not because I don’t want to disturb him. And one of the devotees in the room quoted that Srila Prabhupada said, “It is the duty of the disciple to ask questions of the spiritual master.” So then I felt reassured. Although still, I never asked any question without deeply considering the question and thinking whether I could actually answer the question without asking Srila Prabhupada. But after considering deeply, if I found that I could not get the answer in any other way, then I would ask.

Srila Prabhupada said that he asked only one question of his guru Maharaja, and that was, “How can I serve you?” That is actually the only question. And other questions that we might ask about Krishna consciousness should only be with the purpose of how we can serve Srila Prabhupada better. There should be no other intention. We should not ask questions just for some intellectual stimulation or to show that we are very inquisitive. But we should ask questions with the idea of how we can become better servants of the Lord because the more we have knowledge, the better we can serve. So Lord Chaitanya has explained that there are three subjects in the Vedas. What are the three? Sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana. Sambandha means the relationship between the living entity and the Supreme Lord. We should know who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. What are the energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then when we learn about the different energies, we will understand that we are also one of the energies, tatasta-śakti. We are the marginal potency, and the marginal potency has a relationship with the Lord and also with the spiritual potency and also with the material potency. So we should know what is our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, with the material energy, with the spiritual energy, and everything. That is sambandha-jñāna. But conclusion should be jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’ - that I am the eternal servant of Krishna, that is the actual conclusion. And then what is abhidheya? Abhidheya is the process or the activities by which we act in our relationship with Krishna, in other words, devotional service. And what is prayojana? Prayojana is the goal, which is love of Krishna.

So, our relationship is, we are the eternal servants of Krishna. And to be re-established as eternal servants of Krishna, we engage in sādhana-bhakti. And when we reach the goal, we attain sādhya-bhakti. Sādhana-bhakti means devotional service in practice, and sādhya-bhakti means devotional service in perfection, or ultimately, in love. So we should know what are the three subjects of the Vedas, and we should be anxious to know about the three subjects. And therefore, we should approach the learned devotees and ask questions by which we can understand the subject better. We should read the books. Certainly, we should read the books. Asking questions is not meant to replace reading the books. We should read the books, but in reading the books, if we are reading attentively and carefully, certainly questions will arise. Then we should think about the questions, how to answer them, and we should discuss with other devotees about the answers. And ultimately, if we don’t get any other answer, we can approach some learned Vaishnava and ask him. And if you are really sincere and want to understand the subject, he will be so pleased, and he will give answer. They should be sincere. They should be pure devotees. Of course, if one is sincere, it means to be a pure devotee, in the sense that he has no other desire except the service of Krishna. One may be more advanced than the other, one may be more mature than the other, one may be more experienced than the other, but both should have the same interest, and that is krishna-bhakti.

So, are there any questions or comments?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:31:48]

Giriraj Swami: He is saying that if the speaker is sincere but the audience is not so sincere, can the audience become sincere by association with the speaker?

They can. If they are a little sincere, they can become more sincere certainly. You see, actually, we are not supposed to speak to persons who are not qualified. Bhagavad-gītā also says we shouldn’t speak to people who are not austere, who are not devoted, we should not speak to persons who are envious. But when we speak in an open assembly, we don’t know who is going to come, and by looking at the people, we may not be able to say also. Just like when we approach someone on the street to sell a book, we may not be able to guess whether the person will take the book or not. So, because we want to give the message to the sincere souls, and we cannot judge who is the sincere person, and we want to attract sincere souls, and to attract them, we advertise and we publicize and we invite everyone. And the ones who are sincere, they will get the benefit. And the ones who are not so sincere but somewhat sincere, if they continue to associate, they can become more sincere. But the actual way to become sincere is to follow the instructions. So by associating with the devotees, if someone begins to follow the instructions, even simple instructions like chanting Hare Krishna, not eating meat, not taking intoxicants, then the person, by following the instructions, will become more sincere.

In fact, in one lecture, Srila Prabhupada spoke about the importance of sincerity. That in one sense, the only qualification is sincerity, and without sincerity, we cannot progress. One of the disciples then asked Srila Prabhupada how we can become sincere. And Srila Prabhupada said, “By following all of the instructions of the spiritual master, no matter how big or small.” So by following the instructions, we become more sincere. But by associating with someone who is sincere, we can become inspired to become more sincere. The other person’s sincerity may touch us.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:36:25]

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

‘sādhu-saṅga’, ‘sādhu-saṅga’ — sarva-śāstre kaya
lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya

That just by associating with the devotee for a moment, one can achieve all perfection. Now, what happens in the moment of association with the devotee? One can get the seed of bhakti, and when the seed of bhakti matures, one gets all perfection. But once we receive the seed, we have to water it by chanting and hearing. We have to protect it by fencing it on all sides, and we have to see also that no weeds come up around the creeper that could choke the creeper. So there is a process. It may only take a moment to get the seed, but after we get the seed, there is a process. And that is watering, chanting and hearing, then checking for weeds and pulling out weeds when they appear, and fencing the creeper. Fencing the creeper means staying in the association of pure devotees, staying within the circle of pure devotees. So the circle of pure devotees becomes the fence and keeps out the mad elephant of vaiṣṇava-aparādha. So depending on how we follow the process, chanting and hearing, fencing, and so on, the seed has then chance to sprout and grow and bear fruit. Yes.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:39:15]

Giriraj Swami: So, there are nine types of devotional service, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam and other. So, hearing is also devotional service, and serving is also devotional service. We should see that the person is engaged in devotional service. He should be fully engaged in whatever service, and he can attain perfection by being fully engaged in some service or in all varieties of service. But he should not use chanting and hearing as an excuse for avoiding practical service because we may not actually be able to chant and hear twenty-four hours like Haridasa Thakura. So, if someone approaches us to do some practical service, we should not say, “Please excuse me, I can’t do any practical service because I am busy imitating Haridasa Thakura, chanting three lakhs hari-nāma,” which actually we are not able to do. But if someone is actually inclined to study and if he can actually study productively and fruitfully, then there is no harm. Actually, it is good if he studies, but then he should preach. The process becomes complete when the person shares the knowledge that he has got with others. Otherwise, the process will not be successful if he only studies for himself.

Srila Prabhupada told the story of one famous sannyasi in India, or maybe not sannyasi, a famous guru in India. So, he brought his disciple to him and told him, “Now I am going to give you my knowledge.” He told the disciple to close his eyes, and then the guru, so-called guru, touched the disciple, and by some electric current or something, the guru’s knowledge was supposed to flow into the disciple. Then, when the disciple opened his eyes, he saw that the guru was crying. So he said, “Holy Master, why are you crying?” And the guru said, “I am crying because I have given all of my knowledge to you, and now I don’t have any left with me.” So, this is a material conception. Materially, if I have something and I give it to someone else, then I lose it. But spiritually, in relation to transcendental knowledge, the more I give knowledge, the more I get. So, Srila Prabhupada said that if one has transcendental knowledge and he distributes it, then he will get more knowledge. And on the other hand, if he has transcendental knowledge and does not distribute it, then he will become envious. So, we have to share the knowledge that we get with others. Otherwise, just reading will not be complete. We may actually have problems if we don’t share the knowledge. We may have problems of becoming envious or becoming proud, thinking that we are better than others, and so on, becoming lazy, and so.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:44:32]

Giriraj Swami: Okay, you are saying that the speaker is bona fide, but the audience may not understand the speaker.

When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura would speak, most people did not understand him. Even Srila Prabhupada said he had difficulty in understanding him. But when one hears the transcendental sound vibration, especially from an exalted personality like Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, he gets benefit anyway. When the managers of Back to Godhead were discussing the contents with Srila Prabhupada, he said that they could include one article by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati every issue because, in the beginning, the devotees weren’t really able to write much. So they were looking for articles from different sources. And then one of the devotees said to Srila Prabhupada, “Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura’s language is very difficult, and most people may not understand.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “No matter, even if they don’t understand, but just by reading it, by getting the transcendental sound, they will benefit.” But of course, the more the speaker is realized, the more he can speak to the level of the audience. If someone is not realized, then he will just repeat what he has read, and he may not be able to explain it in a suitable way for the audience. But the more the speaker becomes realized, the more he can express the subject in the appropriate way for the particular audience. And then again, in an audience, there may be different persons of different levels, and then the speaker has to judge to whom he wants to give preference.

Generally, although not always, but generally, Srila Prabhupada would speak to the lower level of the audience. Once, we were staying with Srila Prabhupada in some apartment in Bombay, and there were no public programs advertised. But in the evening, Srila Prabhupada would come into the drawing room and speak to the devotees about The Nectar of Devotion. But if by chance some neighbor or some visitor came, then Srila Prabhupada would immediately change from The Nectar of Devotion to Bhagavad-gītā. Sometimes he would speak generally on the level of Bhagavad-gītā for the audience, but then towards the end or towards the beginning, he might speak more to the devotees. When Srila Prabhupada came after a long time, even if there were many outsiders, Srila Prabhupada would speak more to the devotees because he knew they were serving in separation or suffering in separation. So he reciprocated with them more. So the speaker really has to judge to whom he wants to give preference in the talk, and taking everything into consideration, he will decide. Sometimes in India, there would be a huge audience of people who didn’t speak English. I remember one case in particular, and Srila Prabhupada spoke in English because he was more concerned about his disciples. So, it is really up to the speaker to decide which audience he wants to give preference to and then speak to that audience. And at the same time, try to satisfy everyone, at least to some extent.

So tonight, we begin the course at seven o’clock. We will distribute copies of the chapter to the students who are taking the course. The basic subject will be Lord Chaitanya’s teachings to Sanatana Gosvami on the subject of abhidheya. So, it is more for devotees who already understand, at least in theory, that they are the eternal servants of Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande Hari Haribol!