SB 4.22.26 – Prthu Maharaja Meets the Kumaras

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Four, Chapter Twenty-two, “Pṛthu Mahārāja’s Meeting with the Four Kumāras,”

TEXT 26

yadā ratir brahmaṇi naiṣṭhikī pumān
ācāryavān jñāna-virāga-raṁhasā
dahaty avīryaṁ hṛdayaṁ jīva-kośaṁ
pañcātmakaṁ yonim ivotthito ‘gniḥ

TRANSLATION

Upon becoming fixed in his attachment to the Supreme Personality of Godhead by the grace of the spiritual master and by awakening knowledge and detachment, the living entity, situated within the heart of the body and covered by the five elements, burns up his material surroundings exactly as fire, arising from wood, burns the wood itself.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

It is said that both the jīvātmā, the individual soul, and the Paramātmā live together within the heart. In the Vedic version it is stated, hṛdi hy ayam ātmā: the soul and Supersoul both live within the heart. The individual soul is liberated when it comes out of the material heart or cleanses the heart to make it spiritualized. The example given here is very appropriate: yonim ivotthito ‘gniḥ. Agni, or fire, comes out of wood, and by it the wood is completely destroyed. Similarly, when a living entity increases his attachment for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is to be considered like fire. A blazing fire is visible by its exhibition of heat and light; similarly, when the living entity within the heart becomes enlightened with full spiritual knowledge and detached from the material world, he burns up his material covering of the five elements — earth, water, fire, air and sky — and becomes free from the five kinds of material attachments, namely ignorance, false egoism, attachment to the material world, envy and absorption in material consciousness. Therefore pañcātmakam, as mentioned in this verse, refers to either the five elements or the five coverings of material contamination. When these are all burned into ashes by the blazing fire of knowledge and detachment, one is fixed firmly in the devotional service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Unless one takes shelter of a bona fide spiritual master and advances one’s attraction for Kṛṣṇa by the spiritual master’s instructions, the five coverings of the living entity cannot be removed from the material heart. The living entity is centered within the heart, and to take him away from the heart is to liberate him. This is the process: one must take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master and by his instruction increase one’s knowledge in devotional service, become detached from the material world, and thus become liberated. An advanced devotee, therefore, does not live within the material body but within his spiritual body, just as a dry coconut lives detached from the coconut husk even though within the husk. The pure devotee’s body is therefore called cin-maya-śarīra, “spiritualized body.” In other words, a devotee’s body is not connected with material activities, and as such, a devotee is always liberated (brahma-bhūyāya kalpate), as confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (14.26). Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī also confirms this:

īhā yasya harer dāsye
karmaṇā manasā girā
nikhilāsv apy avasthāsu
jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate

“Whatever his condition may be, one who is engaged fully with his body, mind and speech in the service of the Lord is liberated, even within this body.”

COMMENT

So here, the perfection of liberation for the devotee is explained. The living entity lives within the heart. The individual soul and super soul both living within the heart. But in the conditioned state, the living entity is covered by five layers of material contamination or material ingredients. The contaminations are described as ignorance-avidya, false egoism-Asmita, attachment to the material world-raga, envy-dvesha, and absorption in material consciousness-nivesha. They are coverings of misery, because all sides involve misery, and they are also causes of misery. So, as long as we remain covered by such anarthas, we have to suffer. And since we don’t want to suffer—nobody wants to suffer—we have to become free from them. And the process for becoming free is explained in the verse. In general, the process is bhakti, beginning with surrendering to the spiritual master, ādau guru-pāda-āśraya. Surrendering to the spiritual master is the first step in the advancement of devotional service. When one surrenders to the spiritual master and begins the process of devotional service, he develops knowledge and detachment.

vāsudeve bhagavati
bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

Knowledge and detachment develop automatically, and causelessly, when one engages in bhakti-yoga. The other meaning of the five coverings, besides ignorance, false egoism, material attachment, envy, and material absorption, is the five elements of earth, water, fire, air, and sky. When the soul is actually liberated from material bondage, the soul leaves the material body and enters the spiritual sky. And here, Srila Prabhupada has actually reconciled both meanings of five coverings by saying that even when one is in the material body, if he is liberated, he has no attachment for the material body. But he actually develops his siddha-deha, or spiritually perfected body, even within the material body. And this is actually the perfection of devotional service. There is another similar verse in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which says that just as the fire of digestion burns food within the stomach, similarly, bhakti burns the subtle covering of the spirit soul. So, bhakti is like fire and burns all sinful reactions, all anarthas, all aparādha, all coverings of material contamination. But the fire should be blazing; it should not be weak. And sometimes, unfortunately, the fire of bhakti within the heart seems to be flickering. But it should be sand, and it should grow strong. And when it grows strong, then it will have the power to quickly eradicate the darkness of ignorance or the coverings of maya. So, we have to be very strict and very sincere in our spiritual practices.

One time, there were some devotees in Australia or New Zealand who used to chant Hare Krishna, but they did not follow all of the rules and regulations given to the devotees by the Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada used to write to them and encourage them. So, the devotees who were following more strictly became somewhat confused: What is their position? They are chanting the holy name, but they are not following many other principles, so what is their position? So, Srila Prabhupada explained. He gave the example of fire. He told one story that a king or some rich man met a yogi and asked him, “What can you do? You are a yogi; what can you do?” It was winter. He said, “I can submerge myself in the freezing water of the river and spend the whole night in the river.” The king was very surprised. The king said, “Well, if you can do that, I will give you a nice reward.” So, the yogi spent the night in the water, and in the morning, he informed the king that he did it and he wanted his reward. The king said, “Let me see for myself.” So, he went with the yogi to the river, and in the distance, he saw on one hill a little lamp. So, he said to the yogi, “Oh, you see the lamp on the hill? I know what you did. You took heat from the fire on the hill, and therefore you could stay in the water. So, I am not going to pay you; you cheated.” And the king left.

Now, the minister of the king was with the king, and he was also very intelligent. So later, in the morning, the king called the minister and he said, “It is time to go; we have some important work.” The minister said, “My dear king, I still haven’t taken my breakfast; I am still cooking. As soon as I take my breakfast, we can go.” So, the king waited and waited, and still no minister. He sent another message, and again, the minister sent back the reply, “I am still cooking.” Then the king got very upset. He said, “Cooking, cooking, what is this cooking? Why hasn’t he finished cooking?” So, the king personally went to the minister’s kitchen, and there he saw on the floor a little fire for cooking rice. And he saw three very long bamboo poles, and way up, almost at the ceiling level, was the pot of rice. Then the king said, “What nonsense! You are supposed to be cooking. How do you expect the heat of the fire that is on the ground to reach the pot of rice which is almost at the ceiling?” Then the minister replied, “Well, if the yogi could get heat from the flame on the mountain in the distance, then I can also cook with this flame.” Then the king understood what the minister was saying. He said, “You are right. I must give the reward to the yogis.”

Srila Prabhupada told this story to illustrate the fact that if one chants the holy name but doesn’t follow the regulated principles, it is like trying to cook with fire from a distance. You can say that you are cooking, but actually, you are not really cooking. Or if you are cooking, it will take a very long time. So the chanting of the holy name is effective when the devotee follows all of the regulative principles and instructions of the spiritual master. Then he is really cooking. Otherwise, he may think he is cooking, but he is not really cooking, or it will take a long time. So our bhakti should blaze by surrender to the instructions of the spiritual master and following the regulated principles enjoined by the spiritual master. And the main principle, or the basic principle, is to always remember Krishna and never forget Him. So we should learn how to always remember Krishna and never forget Him. By constant remembrance of Krishna, we will be able to burn the anarthas and offenses within the heart. Then we will become purified and ultimately liberated. Then we will reach the perfection of cin-maya-śarīra, a spiritualized body.

Sometimes people ask, “Do we actually have to wait until we leave the physical body to manifest the spiritual body?” But here the Srila Prabhupada clearly explains in the purport, and the verse also indicates the same facts, that even while living within the physical body, we can develop the spiritual body. Srila Prabhupada gives the example of the coconut. When the coconut is young and unripe, the coconut water or milk is not separate from the husk. But gradually, the soft covering within the husk becomes harder and harder, and it begins to detach itself from the shell. So in the same way, our spiritual bodies are not very distinct in the beginning, or they are covered. But gradually, by the process of purification, the spiritual body becomes manifest, and the spirit soul becomes detached from the physical body. Of course, this takes place at an advanced stage of rati or bhāva. Here also rati is mentioned, yadā ratir brahmaṇi naiṣṭhikī, that once our attachment for Krishna becomes fixed, we can develop our spiritual body. So how to do it? How to become fixed in such attachments? Narada explains the process in the Seventh Canto. He says that just as the grass worm is entrapped in a hole by the bee, and while he is trapped in the hole, he is always thinking about the bee. And being so absorbed in the thoughts of the bee, he himself develop the body of a bee. Srila Prabhupada says, this is a very practical example that by thinking of something very intensely, we can develop the form of the thing that we are thinking about. Then Narada says that many persons in the past became free from sinful reactions and attained liberation by being absorbed in intense thoughts of Krishna. He said that the gopīs, by kāma—kāma generally means lust, but in the case of the gopīs, it means prema. But anyway, the gopīs, by lust, Kamsa, by fear, Sisupala, by envy, and the Pandavas and Yadavas, by affectionate relationship, and the devotees in general, by bhakti-yoga, they were able to develop intense absorption in the Lord and become liberated.

Now, does it mean that we should think of Krishna like Kamsa or Sisupala? No. Pure devotional service must be favorable. One must have a favorable attitude towards Krishna. One must want to please Krishna by devotional service, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ. So the attitude of Kamsa and the attitude of Sisupala cannot be accepted as bhakti because they are not favorable. So this means kāma, like the gopīs and sambandha like the Yadu. So, if we become absorbed in the thought of Krishna like the gopīs who wanted to please Krishna, please Krishna’s senses with their senses, or like the Yadus who wanted to please Krishna by their affectionate relationships with Him, we can become absorbed in thought of Krishna. And as stated in Bhagavad-gītā, Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam, that whatever we remember at the time of death, we will attain to the same state without fail. So we see that Kamsa and Sisupala, they were absorbed in thoughts of Krishna at the time of death, but what did they get? They only got mukti, sāyujya-mukti. Generally, those who think of the Lord with some negative emotion, they get sāyujya-mukti, they merge into the existence of the Lord because they are only thinking of Krishna. But Rupa Gosvami explains how we can get bhakti, how we can develop spiritual body. And he says, kṛṣṇa smaraṇa janam ca asya, that we should remember Krishna with His associates because if we remember Krishna unfavorably, we can only merge into Krishna, or may we develop the same form as Krishna. But if we think of Krishna with His associates, as recommended by Rupa Gosvami, then we can enter the pastimes of Krishna and serve the Lord just like the associates of Krishna serve Him.

So we should not try to follow the examples of Kamsa and Sisupala. Of course, in one sense, we should want to be as absorbed in thoughts of Krishna as they were. And Narada even said that he thinks that the enemies of Krishna can think of the Lord with more intense absorption than the devotees. Now, how can we understand the statement of Narada? Of course, Narada is bhāgavata, He is the most humble Vaishnava, so He considers himself inferior in intensity of remembrance of Krishna even to demon like Kamsa and Sisupala. So this is the humility of the Vaishnava, Uttama-Bhagavat. He sees that others are more absorbed in Krishna consciousness than him, even demons like Kamsa and Sisupala. But actually, the acharyas have explained that there may be some truth to the statement of Narada, because Narada is generally accepted as a devotee of Lord Narayana, and he worships the Lord in awe and reverence. He is only conscious of the opulences of the Lord and the superiority of the Lord to him. And because of the awe and reverence and because of the concern to serve the Lord according to rules and regulations, there is some diminishing in the intensity of love as compared to the love of the residents of Vrindavan.

So Srila Prabhupada explained that the statement of Narada indirectly glorifies the love of the residents of Vrindavan because the demons like Kamsa and Sisupala, they are just absorbed in hatred of Krishna, or in envy, or in fear. But they have no hesitation in their dealings with Krishna. Whereas devotees who are in the vidhi-marga, who are thinking of the opulences of the Lord and the greatness of the Lord, they cannot become so absorbed with such intensity as the residents of Vrindavan. So, Rupa Gosvami give the conclusion that we should follow devotees like the gopīs in kāma, or Nanda, and Yasoda in sambandha, who have very intimate relationships with the Lord. That is called raga, very deep attachment and complete absorption in thoughts of the Lord and the Lord’s associates. So here, one of the five covers that we have to become free from is raga, material attachment. But the opposite to material attachment is also called raga, or spiritual attachment. And the purpose of devotional service, following the rules and regulations, is to convert the material attachment into spiritual attachment. It is just like some diseased person; he follows many rules and regulations to become cured of the disease. And when he is cured of the disease, he can enjoy a healthy life. So in the same way, when we follow the regulated principles of bhakti-yoga, we become freed from the material disease, and we become healthy. Healthy means that we develop our spiritual body, with which we can serve the Lord. So, this is the goal, and we should know the goal because knowing the goal will give us extra inspiration and extra motivation in our spiritual practices.

I will give one good example. That one lady in Portugal was writing a doctoral thesis on nutrition, and she could understand very clearly that a vegetarian diet was better than a diet with meat, fish, and eggs, and she also practiced as a nutritionist. She had instructed many people about the virtues of a vegetarian diet as opposed to other diets. But she said almost none of them followed, although they knew that a vegetarian diet was better; almost none of them followed. Then, when she met the devotee, she saw that all of the devotees followed. And what is the reason? So she concluded the reason was because they had some spiritual impetus. That because they wanted to become Krishna conscious, and they knew that by eating meat, fish, eggs, or anything which is not offered to Krishna, they won’t be able to become Krishna conscious. So she decided she would write her doctoral thesis on the subject of motivation. That even though people know what a better diet is, they don’t adopt it unless they have some spiritual inspiration.

So we have some inspiration. So we are following the four principles and chanting sixteen rounds, but we are still subject to various anarthas. So if our inspiration becomes stronger, or if our attachment to Krishna becomes stronger, we will have the inspiration or the impetus not only to become free from the gross manifestations of sinful desire but even the subtle manifestations. So therefore, Srila Prabhupada says, unless one takes shelter of a bonafide spiritual master and advances one’s attraction for Krishna by the spiritual master’s instructions, the five coverings of the living entity cannot be uncovered. So by following the spiritual master’s instructions, we should increase in attraction and attachment for Krishna. Then our devotional service will have enough impetus or force to burn up the material covering, and otherwise, they will not.

So, are there any questions or comments?

Devotee: This example with the grass worm and the bee, I think it is still strange. I never was able to understand it because you cannot really ascertain that this red point will become a bee. It is like a circular statement because Prabhupada says [Unintelligible 00:40:55]

Giriraj Swami: Let me just say that I don’t really understand the question.

Devotee: Prabhupada says that this grass worm one becomes a bee by the fear of the Bee. But how do we know that this is true? That the grass worm becomes to bee, how can you ascertain that?

Giriraj Swami: Well, it is example from the scripture, I don’t have any personal experience, but I accept the example because it is given in the scripture. But one thing I can say is that every living entity has a spiritual body in a seed form, and by watering the seed, eventually, the seed will sprout, or in other words, the spiritual body will be manifest. So if we water the seed by chanting and hearing and remembering, becoming absorbed in Krishna consciousness, then it will develop. Here, Rupa Gosvami has also given another example of bhakti-latā-bīja, that the living entity gets the seed of devotional service by the combined mercy of the guru and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And if you water the seed by chanting and hearing, protect it from mad elephants, and pull out the weeds and protect the creeper from weeds, then the plant will grow. And Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura elaborates on the growth of the plant of devotion. So he says in the state of sādhana-bhakti, two needs come out, which are kleśaghnī—destruction of afflictions like the five that we read, and shubhada, or the bestowal of auspiciousness, good qualities, and so on. Then after some time, the plant will begin to bud. And beginning of the bud comes just before bhāva, the stage of bhāva. And actually when bud becomes to flower, that is the stage of bhāva-bhakti. And Siddha-svarupa comes at the stage of the bhāva-bhakti. And that is the goal of sadhana. Because Rupa Gosvami has given the definition of sādhana-bhakti that the practices involving the senses and the mind by which one can attain bhāva-bhakti. So by sādhana-bhakti, we attain bhāva-bhakti. And in bhāva-bhakti, Siddha-svarupa start to manifest. That is the perfection. And then the flower becomes a fruit. Well, not exactly, but the plant yields a fruit, which is prema. Then we can eat the fruits and enjoy rasa. So if we are just watering, watering, watering, nothing’s happening, we might get discouraged. But if we say, “Oh, there is a bud, there is a flower,” then we get encouraged.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:45:00]

Giriraj Swami: The question is that when I say that every living entity has the seed of some eternal form or some eternal service to Krishna, is it specific?

Yes, it is specific. Just like if you have a mango seed and water, you will get mangoes. If you have a papaya seed and water that, you get papayas. So, every soul has inherent within him, some eternal form for serving Krishna in some eternal relationship with Krishna. So by practice, the form comes out. Now, somebody may raise the question that we are not at the stage of bhāva-bhakti, we haven’t really realized our svarūpa, but say we have some attraction to Krishna and His pastimes in Vrindavan with His devotees, gopīs, or mother and father or boyfriends, and we want to hear about them and remember them, but there is no harm because somehow, we are supposed to remember Krishna, always remember Krishna and never forget Krishna. And if our svarūpa is something else, it will be manifest at a later stage in bhāva-bhakti. But in the meantime, there is no harm in thinking of Krishna in any way. There is no harm at all. In fact, Srila Prabhupada once had a lady disciple, many many years ago in the beginning of ISKCON, and she asked Srila Prabhupada, “Srila Prabhupada, was it fact that Krishna only had sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Oh, you want to become Krishna’s wife? You can pray like that.”

So remembering Krishna and His pastimes and His associates, there is no harm. Praying, to follow in the footsteps of Krishna’s associates, there is no harm, what is the harm if we remember Krishna or pray to Krishna. The defect comes if we imagine, “I am a gopī or I am Krishna. I want to dress up like gopīs.” That is sahajiyā. That is wrong. But within our mind, we imagine “I am a gopī, or whatever.” “I am Nanda Maharaja; I am Yasoda.” That is wrong. We should not imagine. But in the mood of longing, in the mood of separation, thinking of the pastimes of Krishna and praying to have some entry into the service of Krishna, there is no harm. Other than that, what should we do? What should we pray for? We chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. What is the meaning of Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna? We are calling on the name of the Lord, Krishna mean Krishna, Hare means Radharani. So, we are calling “O Radhe, O Krishna!” So if we call them, and they answer us, “Yes, you are calling. What do you want?” Then what will we say? “I want a house, I want a new car, I want a wife, or I want a good job?” When they say, “Yes, you called. What can we do for you?” What will we say? We will say, “Please engage us in your service.” So when we chant Hare Krishna, anyway, we are praying to the Lord to be engaged in His service. And if directly we pray to be engaged in His service, what is the wrong? What is the difference? So the only thing is we shouldn’t imagine that we are something. But in the mood of separation, longing to serve the Lord as we find in the songs of the previous acharyas and the poems of the previous acharyas, there is no harm.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:50:20]

Giriraj Swami: He says that, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante, that as we approach Krishna, Krishna will reciprocate. So if we are cultivating mañjarī bhāva, we have sākhya bhāva, what is it?

Well, we have one instance in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Lord Chaitanya had one devotee named Murari Gupta, and Lord Chaitanya was always speaking to him about the special sweetness of Krishna. Murari was a devotee of Lord Rama. Lord Chaitanya was always speaking to him about the super excellent qualities of Krishna and trying to get him to worship Krishna and chant Krishna manta. Murari was a great devotee of Lord Chaitanya. So he took the Lord’s instructions to heart. One night he went home, and he decided, “Now I am going to give up the worship of Rama, I am going to accept the worship of Krishna.” But he couldn’t do it because his permanent attraction was for Rama, and he spent the whole night crying because what to do. So the next morning he went to Lord Chaitanya, and he told Lord Chaitanya that, “I think I should give up my body.” Why? “Because you have told me to give up the worship of Rama and replace it with the worship of Krishna, but I cannot give up the worship of Rama, and neither can I disobey your order. Then what to do? I think I should give up this body. It is the only solution.” Then Lord Chaitanya embraced him and he said, “You are the real devotee of Rama,” and he was very pleased with him. This is the chastity of devotional service, that one has some attachments to his worshipable deity, and he won’t give up his attachment to his worship of deity for anything. That is real sthāyi-bhāva. It doesn’t change. So one may artificially try to cultivate some things that isn’t within his heart, but ultimately, if he becomes purified, the real emotion within the heart, or the real, or the eternal relationship with Krishna, or whatever form of Krishna, will become manifested.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:54:10]

Giriraj Swami: Why did Lakshmi desire to serve Krishna in Vrindavan? He said that Lakshmi wanted to get the association of Krishna, although she already had the association of Narayana. So why wasn’t she satisfied with the association of Narayana, because she already had her svarūpa as Lakshmi?

Lord Chaitanya has explained that although Narayana and Krishna are the same persons, Krishna has some specific attractive qualities which are not even found in the person of Narayana. His personal beauty and mainly His reciprocations with his devotees in mādhurya-rasa. So she wanted to experience her worshipful Lord Narayana in his feature as Krishna. But as you say, she had her svarūpa as Lakshmi and she could not succeed. Lord Chaitanya has reconciled the problem by saying that actually, just as Krishna and Lord Narayana are the same tattva, similarly the gopīs and the goddesses of fortune are the same tattva. So when the goddesses of fortune want to enjoy with Krishna in Vrindavan, they enjoy through the gopīs as the same tattva as Lakshmi.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:56:15]

Giriraj Swami: That is the good answer by the His Holiness Hridayananda Swami. That devotees can have more than one mood in relation with Krishna. Like Balarama, sometimes, like Balarama, sometimes he is in the mood of parents because he is the older brother, sometimes he is in the mood of friends, sometimes he is in the mood of servant also. So even within our svarūpa, in our perfected spiritual existence, we can have more than one mood in relation to the Lord, although one is predominant. And I would also add, being reminded by His Holiness, that some devotees who are strongly attached to the service of Krishna and also strongly attached to the service of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, they develop two svarūpas. And with one, they enter the eternal pastimes of Lord Chaitanya, and with the other, they enter the eternal pastimes of Krishna. The soul is also not limited. The liberated soul is not limited in the same way as conditioned souls are.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:58:25]

Giriraj Swami: He says, Krishna sent Uddhava to Vrindavan to see the gopīs. By seeing the gopīs, he could understand that their love for Krishna is more intense than his, but still, he didn’t give up his relationship with Krishna as friend. He prayed to have the intensity of love as the gopīs, but he didn’t want to give up his relationship as a friend of Krishna in Dvaraka.

Okay, last question because time is up? Yes, please.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:59:23]

Giriraj Swami: He says that he has a bee living outside his room, and anyone who wants to come and examine the activities of the bee, how the grass room turns into a bee, can come and see the place outside Satyanarayana Prabhu’s room, and thus confirm the version of the scriptures with our empirical observations.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande Hari Haribol!