CC Madhya 8.87–92

Giriraj Swami: 

jaya jaya śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya nityānanda
jayādvaita-candra jaya gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

Reading from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā, Chapter Twenty-two, “The Process of Devotional Service,”

TEXT 87

asat-saṅga-tyāga, — ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra
‘strī-saṅgī’ — eka asādhu, ‘kṛṣṇābhakta’ āra

TRANSLATION

“A Vaiṣṇava should always avoid the association of ordinary people. Common people are very much materially attached, especially to women. Vaiṣṇavas should also avoid the company of those who are not devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

COMMENT

As we have discussed, association is critical. If we associate with devotees, then the door to liberation is open, and if we associate with ordinary people, then the path to hell is open. So, we have to be very careful about association. Lord Chaitanya has described the value of association with devotees ’sādhu-saṅga’, ‘sādhu-saṅga’—-sarva-śāstre kaya lava-mātra sādhu-saṅga sarva-siddhi haya. That if one associates with a pure devotee just for a moment’s time, he can achieve all perfection. Because by the association of the devotee, he can get the seed of bhakti, and by bhakti, he can attain all perfection.

Now, Lord Chaitanya speaks about the opposite, about the association of ordinary people or non-devotees, and he says asat-saṅga-tyāga, — ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra. A Vaishnava should always avoid the association of asat. Sat means eternal, and sat also means devotee. So, asat means temporary and also non-devoted because non-devotees are after temporary things, and devotees are after eternal things. Krishna is eternal; one of Krishna’s names is Sanatana. So, they are after Krishna, they are after eternal service to Krishna, and ordinary people are after temporary things, after the pleasures of the body which are temporary. So, asat-saṅga-tyāga we should give it up asat-saṅga-tyāga, — ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra and there are two categories of asat: ‘strī-saṅgī’ — eka asādhu, ‘kṛṣṇābhakta’ āra. ‘strī-saṅgī’ someone who associates with women for sense gratification, he should be avoided, and ‘kṛṣṇābhakta’, one who is not a devotee of Krishna, he should be avoided. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura analyzes the elements of the verse as follows: ‘strī-saṅgī’ there are two categories of ‘strī-saṅgī’, one who associates with the wife within marriage and those who associate with women outside marriage. So, definitely, we should avoid the association of someone who associates with women for sense gratification outside marriage. But even within marriage, there are some considerations because the husband is only supposed to associate with the wife for the sake of producing children and raising them in Krishna consciousness.

So, Bhaktivinoda Thakura mentions that the husband should be saintly, and the wife should be submissive to the husband if the husband is saintly. But if he comes under the control of the wife, then he becomes ‘strī-saṅgī’. So, the husband should be saintly, and at the same time, he should be able to control the wife; otherwise, he also comes in the category of ‘strī-saṅgī’, and we should not associate intimately with them. Then, ‘kṛṣṇābhakta’, not bhakta, not devotee Bhaktivinoda Thakura says there are three categories of abhakta. One is the impersonalist; we should avoid his association. Another is the demigod worshiper, the materialists who worship demigods for the sake of material benefit; we should avoid him. And the pretender, the pretender, someone who pretends to be a devotee but is not really a devotee, but he pretends to be a devotee for the sake of some material gain, usually to solve some economic necessities. So, we should not associate intimately with any type of non-devotee, either impersonalists or demigod worshipers or pretenders. And even if someone is a devotee, but if he is attached to women for sense gratification, we should also avoid intimate association with him.

Now, Lord Chaitanya cites evidence through Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

TEXT 88-90

satyaṁ śaucaṁ dayā maunaṁ
buddhir hrīḥ śrīr yaśaḥ kṣamā
śamo damo bhagaś ceti
yat-saṅgād yāti saṅkṣayam

teṣv aśānteṣu mūḍheṣu
khaṇḍitātmasv asādhuṣu
saṅgaṁ na kuryāc chocyeṣu
yoṣit-krīḍā-mṛgeṣu ca

na tathāsya bhaven moho
bandhaś cānya-prasaṅgataḥ
yoṣit-saṅgād yathā puṁso
yathā tat-saṅgi-saṅgataḥ

TRANSLATION

“ ‘By association with worldly people, one becomes devoid of truthfulness, cleanliness, mercy, gravity, spiritual intelligence, shyness, austerity, fame, forgiveness, control of the mind, control of the senses, fortune, and all opportunities. One should not at any time associate with a coarse fool who is bereft of the knowledge of self-realization and who is no more than a toy animal in the hands of a woman. The illusion and bondage that accrue to a man from attachment to any other object are not as complete as that resulting from association with a woman or with men too much attached to women.’

COMMENT

By associating with ordinary people, one becomes devoid of satyam. What is satyam? śaucam,dayā mercy,maunam, what is the meaning of silence, what is the meaning of maunam? Yes, we discussed last time about the qualities of the devotees. So, one of the qualities is mauni, silence. But silent doesn’t mean to say nothing. Silence means to say nothing except about Krishna, in other words, to say nothing about material topics. buddhiḥ,hrīḥ modesty When they associate with ordinary people, they lose their modesty, they lose their shyness. Ajamila is a good example. Ajamila was associated with a materialistic woman, and he lost all good qualities. śrīḥ, yaśaḥ fame, kṣamā forgiveness, śamaḥ and damaḥ, śamaḥ is controlling the mind, and damaḥ is controlling the senses bhagaḥ opulence. ca—and; iti—thus; yat—of whom; saṅgāt—association; yāti—goes to; saṅkṣayam means complete destruction. So, there is complete destruction of all good qualities when one associates with ordinary people. One should not at any time associate with a coarse fool who is bereft of the knowledge of self-realization and who is no more than a toy animal in the hands of a woman. Strong words. teṣu- among them; aśānteṣu—who are restless; mūḍheṣu—fools; khaṇḍita-ātmasu—whose self-realization is spoiled; asādhuṣu who are not saintly; saṅgam—association One should not associate with a coarse fool who is bereft of knowledge of self-realization and who is no more than krīḍā-mṛgeṣu that means a toy animal yoṣit in the hands of a woman.

There are many examples of great conquerors in the world who themselves were conquered by a woman, like Julius Caesar, who was a great hero but became a toy pet in the hands of Cleopatra. Similarly, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, King Muchukunda states that “I was a great conqueror; I conquered in all directions and was emperor of the world, but when I entered the inner chambers of my palace, I came under the control of women.” So, even great conquerors, world leaders, come under the control of women. So, what to speak of ordinary people? Everyone comes under the control of women. In fact, the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam states that, with the exception of Lord Narayana, everyone comes under the influence of sex attraction. The illusion and bondage that’s accrued to a man from attachment to any other object are not as complete as that resulting from association with a woman or with men too attached to women. In other words, we can do many things that will help us to come under illusion and that will help us to be in bondage, but we cannot do anything that will make us under illusion or in bondage as much as associating with women or men who are attached to women.

PURPORT

These verses, quoted from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.31.33–35), were spoken by Kapiladeva, an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to His mother. Herein Kapiladeva discusses pious and impious activities and the symptoms of those who are devoid of devotional service to Kṛṣṇa. Generally people do not know about the miserable conditions within the womb of a mother in any species of life. Due to bad association, one gradually falls into lower species. Association with women is greatly stressed in this regard. When one becomes attached to women or to those who are attached to women, one falls down into the lower species.

COMMENT

So, the Third Canto describes the movements of the living entities, how they transmigrate in the world and suffer. So here, Kapila Dev speaks especially about the association of women or the association of men who are attached to women. He also speaks about the attachment of women to men, and he says that when the woman thinks of the husband as the provider of sense gratification, the provider of progeny, the provider of heart and home, and other similar comforts and wants, then the woman also invites death by such attachment. So, when the scripture talks about women as maya, the scripture means that woman is maya for the man, and man is maya for the woman. So, both should be careful. Of course, we are talking about ordinary men and ordinary women.

PURPORT (continued)

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo ‘sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu

“The living entity in material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil among various species.” (Bhagavad-gītā 13.22)

COMMENT

So, the living entity is suffering in the material world and transmigrating from one species to another, and what type of birth he gets and what type of suffering he gets depends on association. If he has good association, he will get some good results, and if he has bad association, he will get some bad results. Bad results means he will sink lower and lower in consciousness, lower and lower in species, and suffer more and more. The lower one goes on the evolutionary scale, the more one suffers.

PURPORT (continued)

According to Vedic civilization, one’s association with women should be very much restricted. In spiritual life there are four āśramas — brahmacarya, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. The brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsī are completely forbidden to associate with women. Only gṛhasthas are allowed to associate with women under certain very much restricted conditions — that is, one associates with women to propagate nice children. Other reasons for association are condemned.

COMMENT

Now, the attraction of man for woman and the tendency for man to come under the control of woman, which he enjoys—where does it come from?

Devotee 1: [Unintelligent 00:27:00]

Giriraj Swami: He says that the real attraction is for the soul. Actually, the real attraction is for the soul. We love somebody as long as the soul is in the body, but when the soul leaves the body, we have no attraction. Marilyn Monroe was considered very beautiful, and so many men wanted to enjoy her, but when she committed suicide and left her body, nobody wanted to enjoy with her body anymore. So, we think that we are attracted by the body, but the body is attractive only as long as the soul is present in the body. When the soul leaves the body, then nobody is attracted; no normal person or sane person is attracted. But is the soul male and female? No, the soul is not male or female. Then where does the attraction of male and female come from Originally?

Devotee 2: [Unintelligent 00:28:58]

Giriraj Swami: Krishna is the Purusha; He is the male, and He also likes to enjoy the prakriti, or female. But Krishna cannot enjoy anything material. What to speak of Krishna, even any devotee of Krishna who is advanced in Krishna consciousness He has no attraction for sense gratification. Like Haridas Thakura. Haridas Thakura was always chanting the holy names of Lord Krishna, always feeling love for Lord Krishna, and he could not be tempted by any women because He had a higher taste. Unless someone has a higher taste, he cannot be peaceful. Just like nice prasādam; rice, dal, poori, sabji, samosa, gulābjāmun, and then automatically you will forget the dry chapati.

So, at present, we may be attached to the dry chapati of sense gratification, but when we actually experience the superior taste of Krishna consciousness, then we will lose interest in the inferior grade of material happiness. So Haridasa Thakura was experiencing transcendental bliss by chanting Hare Krishna, and when the most beautiful prostitute came to propose some relationship to him, he was not disturbed. He was not affected because he experienced the higher taste, and to the contrary, instead of her polluting him, he elevated her and made her Krishna consciousness. So, when the devotee of Krishna, a pure devotee of Krishna, is beyond the attraction of woman, where is the question that Krishna can be attracted to woman? He cannot be attracted to ordinary women, but janmādy asya yataḥ, Krishna is the origin of everything. Therefore, everything we find in the material world exists originally in the spiritual world, but here it is in a perverted reflection. So, if we find attraction for men and women in the material world, we should know that it must also exist in the spiritual world in Krishna. But Krishna cannot be attracted to any ordinary woman. Therefore, when Krishna wants to enjoy the attraction of woman, He creates Srimati Radharani out of His own self or out of His own energy, and she is as spiritual as Krishna, and Krishna enjoys with her just like an ordinary man enjoys with an ordinary woman, in the sense that He is so much attracted to her that He comes under her control also. But we should know that there is no sense gratification in the spiritual world, no material gratification; there is only transcendental love, prema; there is only prema there.

Now, if we want to become free from material attraction, we should replace material attraction with spiritual attraction. One name of Krishna is Madana-mohana. Madana means cupid. Cupid is the demigod in charge of lust, Madana, and Krishna is Madana-mohana; He attracts cupid. Everyone in the material world is attracted by Madana, but Madana is attracted by Krishna, and therefore Krishna is Madana-mohana. So, if we become attracted to Madana-mohana, if we become attracted to Krishna, then we become free from the attraction of Madana or cupid. Therefore, in the beginning, devotees are recommended to worship the deity of Madana-mohana because by establishing their relationship with Madana-mohana and becoming attracted to Madana-mohana, they become free from their attraction to maya. And without giving up attraction to maya, one cannot get attraction for Krishna, and one cannot be liberated from the perpetual miseries of birth and death. So, we should become attracted to the pastimes of Madana-mohana and Srimati Radharani, and that will purify us of all material lusty desires and replace the inferior desires for sense gratification with the pure desire for Krishna’s service.

That is the only way of success; otherwise, by artificial repression, one cannot succeed. Nobody can give up something for nothing, but if he gets something better, he can give up something lesser. So, when we experience the higher taste of Krishna consciousness, we can give up the inferior grade of sense enjoyment. And The contamination from association with women is so great that one can be contaminated not only by direct association with women but by association with men who are attached to women. So we have to be equally careful of both.

TEXT 91

varaṁ huta-vaha-jvālā-
pañjarāntar-vyavasthitiḥ
na śauri-cintā-vimukha-
jana-saṁvāsa-vaiśasam

TRANSLATION

“ ‘It is better to accept the miseries of being encaged within bars and surrounded by burning flames than to associate with those bereft of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Such association is a very great hardship.’

PURPORT

This is a quotation from the Kātyāyana-saṁhitā.

COMMENT

So, we can imagine what will be the position of someone who is living in a cage of fire. How painful must be the experience of someone in the cage surrounded by burning flames, but still, a devotee would rather live in a cage of fire than with non-devotees. The association of non-devotees is so damaging and painful. In another verse, this is quoted in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. And another verse quoted in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu—it is better to embrace a tiger or a crocodile than to live in the association of non-devotees or to live in the association of demigod worshippers.

TEXT 92

mā drākṣīḥ kṣīṇa-puṇyān kvacid api bhagavad-bhakti-hīnān manuṣyān

TRANSLATION

“ ‘One should not even see those who are bereft of devotional service in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and who are therefore devoid of pious activities.’

COMMENT

One time Srila Prabhupada found one disciple reading Time magazine, and Srila Prabhupada told him that he should throw away the magazine. He said that the people depicted in Time magazine are so sinful that just by seeing their pictures, one will become bereft of all pious activities. So, we thought that Srila Prabhupada was speaking very strong words, maybe with some exaggeration, but then we found the same thing in the scripture: that one should not even see those who are bereft of devotional service and Krishna consciousness. Because they are devoid of pious activities. Like we discussed the other day, if someone is suffering from cholera, if we associate with him in any way, we can catch the same disease. Even by looking, sometimes people have an eye infection, and if you just look in their eyes, you get it. So, by looking, by touching, by eating their remnants, by touching their clothes or anything, you can get infected. But of course, if they are innocent, if they have some inclination to Krishna consciousness, we can meet them to preach, but otherwise, to make friendship and to hear their ideas and to pass time with them, we should not.

So, enough for today. Any questions or comments?

Devotee 1: [Unintelligent 00:42:40]

Giriraj Swami: Every living entity has minute independence, so even someone in the association of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, if he wants, he can become allured by maya. Nothing is automatic; everything depends on us and our desire. And the example is Kala Krishna dasa. Kala Krishna dasa was the servant of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, but he became allured by some gypsy ladies and he left Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu noticed where Kala Krishna dasa, where he has gone, I must find him? So He went and rescued him from them and brought him back with Him to Jagannatha Puri, but when he got to Jagannatha, He rejected him. He said, “I cannot see the face of him that he has left Me for some gypsy ladies. I don’t even want to see him.” Because he has minute independence, everyone has minute independence, and whatever position they are in, they can use it in the right way or in the wrong way, nothing is automatic.

Devotee 2: [Unintelligent 00:44:46]

Giriraj Swami: When we see the non-devotees, if we are able, we should feel compassion. We should see that they are suffering; they need Krishna consciousness, and we should think how we can help them. But if we look at them and think, Oh, they are very great people, or They have so many assets, so many qualities, and if we admire them or appreciate them, thinking that if I were like them, I could also enjoy more, then we will fall down. But if we see them as they are—fallen souls suffering in material nature—and feel that we have something so wonderful which they need, we should give it to them somehow or other. Then we won’t be contaminated.

Devotee 3: [Unintelligent 00:46:27]

Giriraj Swami: We may meet ordinary people in business or in service, and for our work, we have to meet them; we cannot avoid it. But what is the purpose of our work? What is the purpose of our work? Are we earning money for the sake of Krsna’s service, or are we earning money for sense gratification?

Devotee 3: [Unintelligent 00:47:32]

Giriraj Swami: Why are you doing business?

Devotee 3: [Unintelligent 00:48:16]

Giriraj Swami: Ok, we are staying in a city like Bombay. But we don’t do business, how do we survive?

Devotee 3: [Unintelligent 00:48:40]

Giriraj Swami: We are devoted to the cause of Krishna. That is the solution.

Devotee 3: [Unintelligent 00:48:54]

Giriraj Swami: There is nothing wrong with being aggressive in fact Krishna told Arjuna to be aggressive. Arjun didn’t want to be aggressive, but Krishna told him to be aggressive and fight and kill also, but for the sake of Krishna, not for the sake of Arjuna’s sense enjoyment. So there is nothing wrong with being aggressive, but the real question is for whom or for what. If we are aggressive for Krishna and our aggression is approved, then there is no harm. In fact, Arjuna’s non-violence was not approved because, under the circumstances, Krishna wanted him to fight. When Arjun refused to fight and wanted to be non-violent, he was criticized by Krishna. So the real thing is to do what Krishna wants us to do. Hanuman was aggressive when he went to Lanka; he burned the whole city of Lanka, but there is no fault because he did it for the service of Lord Rama.

Devotee 4: [Unintelligent 00:50:30]

Giriraj Swami: So you are saying we should meet the Prime minister to pursue Prabhupada program.

Devotee 4: [Unintelligent 00:54:10]

Giriraj Swami: We may need the right person to do it.

Devotee 4: [Unintelligent 00:54:44]

Giriraj Swami: Okay, come and I will give you the program.

Devotee4: [Unintelligent 00:54:54]

Giriraj Swami: Well, I said that we can approach innocent people to preach, but otherwise, we should not associate with ordinary people. So I’m not sure if there is any question here or whether you are making an appeal for action?

Devotee 4: [Unintelligent 00:56:12]

Giriraj Swami: Anyway, I think that you are mixing philosophy with individual cases. We are discussing philosophy. Someone may follow the instructions of the scriptures strictly; someone else may not follow the instructions so strictly. But here’s not a question of philosophy; it’s just a question of application, and not all devotees are on the same level. Some may be more inclined in one way, and some may be more inclined in another way, so you cannot force them. By their own advancement, they will act in their own way. What to do? People are coming to Krishna consciousness; they are not perfect, but by following the process of Krishna consciousness, they will gradually improve, and one day they may also be perfect. Once, Srila Prabhupada spoke to us that we should avoid the politicians. He said that the politicians will never help you, but they can very easily harm you. He said when he was young, sometimes he used to go with his father near Raj-Bhavan in Calcutta, and his father told him never to go to the politicians because they will never help you, but they are very able to harm you. Then Srila Prabhupada said, “But if we meet them and we feel proud that we have met so and so and we want to advertise to others, “I have met so and so,” then what can be done? So, he said the same thing that you said, but all who come are not pure at first; they may help them.