Caitanya-bhagavata Readings and Q&A—Part 01 with Tamal Krishna Goswami

Giriraj Swami: Nityananda Prabhu was always in high ecstasy, and in high ecstasy, He was not aware of what He was doing, whether He was dressed or not. And therefore, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu used to help Him manage His affairs. Sometimes, exalted devotees, when they come into the world, there are also not concerned with normal affairs because they are absorbed in high ecstasy.

Nityananda Prabhu, although He was acting like a child, He also had the mystic powers of the Supreme Lord, and He used to manifest His mystic powers. In Vrindavan, when Krishna and Balarama used to manifest Their mystic powers or opulences, the residents of Vrindavan wouldn’t take it seriously. But here, when Nityananda Prabhu manifested His mystic powers, Mother Malini offered prayers, which we don’t see in Vrindavan.

So, although there is maternal affection in Navadvipa, it's mixed with some awe and reverence, some mood of servitude. And therefore, in terms of the love of the residents of Vrindavan, there is no mixture of dāsya-bhava. But in the pastimes of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in Navadvipa, there is some mixture of dāsya-bhava in all of the different relationships.

Devotee: Does that make the position of Navadvipa līlā less than the Vraja līlā?

Giriraj Swami: Well, actually, the goal is to enter into. . .

Tamal Krishna Goswami: Move up. Everybody, move closer, then you can hear.

Giriraj Swami: The final goal is to enter into the pastimes of Krishna in Vrindavan, but in order to do so, one must be highly qualified in devotional service. He has to be completely free from offenses. But in the beginning, we are not free from offenses. So, we come to Navadvipa dhāma and hear the pastimes of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu, and by developing our relationship with Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and becoming free from offenses, we gradually become eligible to enter into the pastimes of Krishna in Vrindavan.

In fact, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that if one worships Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in dāsya-rasa in Navadvipa dhāma, then eventually, when he is completely purified, if he has the seed of servitude to Radha and Krishna, then his service to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in dāsya-rasa will change, and he will see Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in Radha and Krishna, and he will serve Radha and Krishna in mādhurya-rasa.

Devotee: When you said, “If he has the seed.” What does that mean?

Giriraj Swami: Every soul has some eternal relationship with Krishna in seed form, and by advancement in devotional service, the seed of the particular relationship with the Lord that he has becomes developed.

So, different seeds produce different flowers. The water is the same, but different seeds will produce different flowers. So, we water the seed of our eternal relationship with the Lord by chanting and hearing. That is the watering process. And especially, if we chant and hear about the pastimes of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu in Navadvipa dhāma, then we can very quickly and easily become free from offenses, and then our eternal relationship will become manifest. And if our eternal relationship is in service to Radha and Krishna, then automatically, we will see the form of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as Radha and Krishna, and service to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in dāsya-rasa will be transformed into service to Radha and Krishna.

Tamal Krishna Goswami: Another question. How can we develop our relationship for pleasing Lord Nityananda?

Lord Nityananda is described as the original. You have the song there?

nitāi-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala

je chāyāy jagata jurāy

heno nitāi bine bhāi, rādhā-kṛṣṇa pāite nāi

dṛḍha kori’ dharo nitāir pāy

And in order to take shelter of Lord Nityananda, we should take shelter of the representative of the Lord. Nityananda Rama represents the original spiritual master. So, to know how to please Him means to please His representative.

Just like Srila Prabhupada was asked, “Do you know Krishna?” Now, Prabhupada certainly knew Krishna, but he replied, “I only know my spiritual master.” So, this is an answer which is suitable for us to understand. If he had said, “Yes, I know Krishna,” what would it have done for us? Because our position is that we are blind and we can’t see Krishna. So, if he had said, “Yes, I know Krishna,” then our feeling would have been, “You are fortunate but I am unfortunate, therefore I can’t do what you are doing.” So, he replied on our behalf. He replied in a way, which would be suitable for us, “I only know my spiritual master.”

So, in order to understand Lord Nityananda and how to please Him, we have to go to His representative in the disciplic succession and try to offer ourselves in their service. Now, another thing to understand is that if you want to know someone, you should not only follow their instructions, but understand their teachings. Just like this parikramā of Navadvipa is actually the desire of Nityananda Prabhu, because of His love for Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, He took Srila Jiva Gosvami on a parikramā of the whole of the Navadvipa mandala in order to help Srila Jiva Gosvami and Himself remember all of the glories of Lord Gauranga.

So, this is one very easy way we can please Lord Nityananda. By doing Navadvipa mandala parikramā, we please the Lord. How? By constantly hearing the glories of Lord Gauranga. Another point is that Lord Nityananda is the resting place of all the conditioned souls. Why? Because Maha-Vishnu is an expansion of Lord Nityananda, and it is Maha-Vishnu’s desire to see that all of the conditioned souls are sent back home, back to Godhead.

So, Lord Nityananda wants to see everyone return back to Godhead. In fact, He has come for this purpose. He goes out and personally does the work of preaching. When Lord Chaitanya wanted to spread the saṅkīrtana movement, He sent His two lieutenants, Lord Nityananda and Srila Haridasa Thakura, and They showed the maximum degree of mercy. They went to very wretched and fallen persons, and They requested them to chant the glories of the Lord.

So, on the order of Lord Chaitanya, we are all the followers of Lord Nityananda and Haridasa Thakura. All of the saṅkīrtana activities that we do, in every town and every village, are in pursuance of the same order, which Lord Nityananda received from Lord Chaitanya. It is because Lord Chaitanya gave this order to Lord Nityananda that we have this order today. The whole saṅkīrtana movement is actually the mercy of Lord Nityananda Prabhu, because He has shown forgiveness, because He has shown tolerance. He was hit by a pot, which caused Him to bleed. Still, He tolerated and forgave the offender. So, if we want to preach the saṅkīrtana movement, we have to be very tolerant, very kind, very merciful, very forgiving; so many difficulties will be there.

So, these are some ideas of how to please Lord Nityananda.

Devotee: Anyone likes to say? Giriraj Maharaja, something? Some comment?

Giriraj Swami: We can get a good idea of the worshipable nature of Nityananda Prabhu, as certainly demonstrated by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. There was a similar incident with Chaitanya Mahaprabhu when King Prataparudra wanted to have His darshan, but Lord Chaitanya refused to give darshan to Maharaja Prataparudra because he was a king, and he was supposed to be the emblem of materialism. So, at the time, Lord Nityananda intervened because He knew Prataparudra was a great devotee, and He wanted Lord Chaitanya to give him darshan. But Lord Chaitanya wanted to be very strict.

Then, Nityananda Prabhu suggested that some of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s cloth could be given to the king, and the king took the cloth and began to worship it as if it were Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And when Lord Chaitanya heard, He was very pleased. He said, “Yes, this is right,” and He quoted the verse [Unintelligible 00:35:13], “Of all types of worship, the worship of Vishnu is the highest. But even higher than the worship of Vishnu is the worship of things related to Vishnu.”

So, the worship of the Lord’s paraphernalia, like the Lord’s cloth, is considered higher than the worship of the Lord directly, or the worship of the Lord’s devotee is considered higher. So here, Lord Chaitanya asked the devotees to worship the cloth of Nityananda Prabhu, but not the outer cloth as king Prataprudra, but the copping.

I don’t know if I should say but. Anyway, I had one experience with Srila Prabhupada. It was actually in 1977. Some of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples were rendering very confidential service to Srila Prabhupada, like His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami, Bhakti Charu Swami, Bhakti Svarupa Damodara Maharaja, and others. And at the time, Srila Prabhupada was not moving from the bed, and sometimes he would have to pass water, and the devotees would just bring some container.

So, somehow, the desire awakened in my heart that I should also do the same service for Srila Prabhupada, although I was not in the regular association. But one of the servants had to leave the room for some reason, and he said, “While I am gone, you take care.” So, this idea was there. And then, suddenly, Srila Prabhupada started to make the motion that he wanted to pass. So, I brought the container, and I placed it, and I didn’t know what to expect, but when I did it, I felt that I was more purified by that act than by chanting hundreds of rounds or by doing hundreds of ārati. And actually, that was the last time Srila Prabhupada did that.

So, we cannot make any distinction in the spiritual master or Nityananda Prabhu. Everything is absolute. Everything is equally pure and equally worshipable. And so, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu wanted everyone to know the glories of Nityananda Prabhu and worship Nityananda Prabhu.

What you say is correct, that Radharani came as Gadadhara Pandita, and Krishna came as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. But when He came as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, He adopted the mood of Srimati Radharani and accepted the instructions of Srimati Radharani. But in His inner mood, Lord Chaitanya was in the role of Srimati Radharani. Gadadhara Pandita was not in the role of Srimati Radharani, but he was in the mood of someone assisting or supporting Srimati Radharani. Otherwise, if Gadadhara Pandita was in the mood of Srimati Radharani and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was in the mood of Srimati Radharani, there would have been some conflict in the moods.

So, Gadadhara Pandita was just the supporting role in assisting Lord Chaitanya in the mood of Srimati Radharani. And some people even say that Krishna was trying to adopt the mood of Srimati Radharani, but He had no experience. So, Srimati Radharani Herself came as Gadadhara Pandita to see how He was doing and to make sure that He did it properly.  

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:40:14].

Giriraj Swami: He says that Gadadhara Pandita was Srimati Radharani, but he took the mood of supporting Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in the mood of Srimati Radharani. So, did Gadadhara Pandita take the position of any particular associate of Srimati Radharani from Vrindavan, like Lalita devi or Vishakha devi?

Actually, there are so many varieties of gopīs, so many different moods of gopīs, so many different qualities of gopīs. But all of the moods and all of the qualities are found in Srimati Radharani. Generally, we say that Srimati Radharani is the left wing gopī, which means She is very contrary. If Krishna wants something, then naturally, it will be, “No.” If Krishna wants to meet Srimati Radharani, even if Srimati Radharani wants to meet Krishna internally, but externally, “No, I don’t want to meet Krishna.”

And Chandravali is the emblem of the right wing gopī. She is in the mood of agreeableness. If Krishna wants something, she will be in the mood to fulfill it. But actually, all the moods are in Srimati Radharani, but in different proportions. So, although the mood of being the dear most beloved of Krishna is there in Srimati Radharani, but the mood of supporting other gopīs or assisting other gopīs or arranging for the other gopīs to be with Krishna is also there in Srimati Radharani.

So, we don’t have to think that She has come in the mood of any other particular gopī, but within the moods of Srimati Radharani is the mood of supporting other gopīs in their service to Krishna.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:43:18].

Tamal Krishna Goswami: The question is, “Are there any benefits for someone leaving the body in the holy dhāma if they don’t have any pious activities?”

So, we should understand that nobody can leave the holy dhāma, leave the body in the holy dhāma, unless they have heaps and heaps of pious merits. You may not see immediate piety in their life, but there are so many things that we don’t see that a person has done, let’s say, in their past life, or some other time in this life. It’s not possible to leave the body in the dhāma unless they are very, very fortunate.

One time, a young girl died in Vrindavan at the Krishna-Balarama guest house. She found some medicine, some pills in a bottle. She was only five or six years old. So, she took all of the pills and she died. So, the father, through me, I was the secretary, asked Srila Prabhupada, “What is the destination of my daughter?” And Prabhupada said, “It is said that anyone who leaves their body in a dhāma goes back home, back to Godhead.”

So, scriptures do say like that, and in any case, there are so many possible benefits. For example, we heard how Murari Chaitanya, the disciple of [Unintelligible 00:45:43], he was killed by the bite of a snake at the time of his marriage ceremony. So, they floated His body down on the Ganga, and a great saintly person [Unintelligible 00:45:59] happened to see that body, touch the body, and bring him back to life, and make him a pure devotee.

So, the real point is the benefit of being in the dhāma. Everything is favorable for Krishna consciousness, not all dhāmas, but especially Sri Vrindavan dhāma, Sri Navadvipa dhāma, and Sri Kshetra or Jagannatha Puri dhāma. Also, to some extent, Dvaraka dhāma, but especially Sri Mayapur dhāma, Sri Navadvipa dhāma, and Sri Vrindavan dhāma, they are very favorable for Krishna consciousness because everything here reminds one of Krishna.

I remember when in the final year of Prabhupada’s pastimes, I was taking care of Prabhupada. One morning, Prabhupada woke up and we heard the sound of peacocks. We heard the bells of the temples. All of the sounds, Prabhupada just laid there for a while in the bed and sat up, and I was quietly massaging his back, and he was just [Unintelligible 00:47:15], and he said, “All of these sounds are so favorable for Krishna consciousness. [Unintelligible 00:47:25]. They stimulate our remembrance of Krishna.”

So, in the dhāma, everything stimulates our Krishna consciousness, and especially the association of the devotees is most favorable. If we live in the dhāma, it’s said that if we chant, we can hear from the devotees about Krishna. And afterall, this is the real way to develop attachment to Krishna. The real thing is that we have to develop our attachment to Krishna. That attachment is lying dormant within us.

Sādhana-bhakti that we are practicing now is to invoke loving ecstatic feelings of Krishna. Those activities which will invoke our love for Krishna, that is called the sādhana-bhakti. We are not doing various things every day for any other purpose. All of them are only meant for this one purpose, to develop our love for Krishna.

So, living in the dhāma makes it much easier and more possible. You can see how nice it is, that is why we like to come here. And this is one of the symptoms of advancement, that a devotee feels attracted to being in the dhāma. It’s a very good sign to feel attracted to living in the dhāma, visiting the dhāma, to feel attracted to hearing the pastimes of the Lord, to be especially attracted to associate with advanced devotees of the Lord; these are all signs of the awakening of our Krishna consciousness.

So, certainly, it is a great benefit of passing in the dhāma. At least we say that one is assured of a very good future birth and to be able to take up their Krishna consciousness from where they have left off.

Anyone else?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:49:27].

Tamal Krishna Goswami: Yes, drowning in the Ganges, like the girl who slipped the pills by mistake, still, there is benefit. Ganga has a very high position. She is also related to Vishnu, to Narayana. The Ganges water touched the lotus feet of Trivikrama, and she is also related to Krishna that she is a gopī in Vrindavan. And she has a relationship directly with Lord Chaitanya because her water was constantly, as we read today, bathing Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s body. So, in so many ways, if the body is thrown in the Ganges, there will certainly be benefits.

But we should realize it is the spirit soul, the loving force that has to really directly benefit. So, we shouldn’t think, I will make some mechanical arrangement that I will do all nonsense, and then, after I will die, someone can take my body and throw it in the Ganges, and in this way, I will go back to Godhead. So, the body is ever dead. It is a dead matter. It is the soul that has to be bathed in the Ganges. So, better to take your bath in the Ganges while you are alive than after you are dead.

I think we will stop now, unless we have some more questions.

Giriraj Swami: The question is good, and we should understand that by taking bath in the Ganges, one becomes free from sinful reactions and liberated from material contaminations. So, one cannot actually go back to Godhead unless he has love for Krishna. So, even if we drown in the Ganges, and because we drown in the Ganges and become free from sinful reactions, he still has to take birth again until he comes to the stage where He develops love for Krishna. Because freedom from sinful reactions or liberation from material contaminations can be achieved just by chanting in nāma-ābhāsa. A glimpse of kirtan. Not kirtan, but a glimpse of kirtan.

So, Ajamila, at the time of death, chanted, “Narayana! Narayana!” in nāma-ābhāsa. And therefore, he was saved from the agents of Yamaraja, from the punishment of Yamadutas for the sins he had committed. But he didn’t have prema-bhakti. So, being saved from the Yamadutas by the Vishnudutas, he had the right to live some more. And he went to Hardiwara, took shelter in some temple, and took association of some devotees, and chanted the holy name. And then, when he was able to chant purely in śuddha-nāma and develop prema-bhakti, then he was eligible to enter the kingdom of God. Then, the Vishnudutas came to take him to Vaikuntha.

So, when we hear statements that just by chanting the holy name once, one is freed from more sinful reactions than he can commit, it is true. But just being free from sinful reactions makes one liberated from material contaminations, doesn’t mean one has prema-bhakti. And without prema-bhakti, one cannot enter into the spiritual kingdom of God. And as Goswami Maharaja said, there is a process.

So, there are statements that if one dies in the dhāma, or as the Upadeśāmṛta says, if one takes bath in Radha-kunda, he will develop love for Krishna like the gopīs. But it doesn’t mean that by taking a bath once in Radha-kunda, one will develop ecstatic love for Krishna. But if he goes through all the steps, all the stages, and then takes bath in Radha-kunda, then he can develop love for Krishna like the gopīs. But there are so many steps, beginning with vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ, controlling the senses, then avoiding prajalpaḥ, and five other things, endeavoring with enthusiasm in five other things, and reciprocating with the devotees, and so on.

So, many verses are like sutras. It means they state the beginning and the end, and they don’t say all the steps in between, but we should know that the steps in between are needed. Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu or Caitanya-caritāmṛta say that just by a slight contact with devotional service, even without faith, one can develop love for Krishna. It means that if one has a slight association even without faith, but if he continues step by step, gradually, he will develop love for Krishna.

So, we should know there is a system. Srila Prabhupada said, “Just chant Hare Krishna, and your life will be sublime.” But when devotees questioned Srila Prabhupada further, he confirmed, “Yes, you tell everyone you remain as you are, in the same position, you do whatever you are doing, but just add Hare Krishna.” That’s the beginning. But after adding Hare Krishna, you become purified. You will be interested in the subject of Krishna consciousness. And then, you will enter the process, and then you will develop love for Krishna.