Caitanya-bhagavata Readings and Q&A—Part 04 with Tamal Krishna Goswami

Tamal Krishna Goswami: Lord Chaitanya played the role of a householder when He had really come to experience the mood of Srimati Radharani. Similarly, the question may be asked, “Why did Srila Prabhupada play the role of a householder when he had really come to distribute the teachings of Lord Chaitanya?”

The Supreme Lord and His devotees, His eternal associates, are always acting under the influence of the Lord’s internal potency, svarūpa-śakti.

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha

daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ

So, daivīm prakṛtim means the internal energy. The internal energy always influences all of the activities of the Lord and His associates. When Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came and enacted His householder pastimes in Navadvipa, even though He had not yet taken to the path of bhakti noticeably, in fact, He was doing so much for scholarship, still, as we heard yesterday, everyone was attracted to His lotus feet. Just like in Srila Prabhupada’s case, even though he had not yet taken up the activities of a world preacher, sannyasi, so many people were attracted to Srila Prabhupada and appreciated him even on the level of the activities that he was exhibiting.

The Lord and His devotee always attract everyone. Just like fire, although it may be covered, it is still fire, and it is difficult to cover it. So, similarly, the Lord, although He may not have yet exhibited His full transcendental position, still, He was all attractive, His behavior with the brahmans, His behavior with the young girls of Navadvipa, still were His pastimes, His līlās, which He enjoyed. It is not that the Lord was ordinary, nor should we even see the activities of the pure devotee of Srila Prabhupada or personalities like Srila Rupa Gosvami, or Srila Sanatana Gosvami as ordinary.

One time, I wrote Srila Prabhupada a letter, inquiring about the previous life of Narada Muni, before he became a great transcendental preacher of Krishna consciousness. I said something to the effect of, “What about when Narada Muni was an ordinary son of a maid servant?” And I asked something of Srila Prabhupada regarding his previous life. So, Prabhupada wrote back saying that we should never consider Narada Muni as ordinary, nor should we ever think that the spiritual master is ordinary. They are always under the influence of the Lord’s internal potency. And the Lord Himself, we do not worship Him in some anthropomorphic form, that is to say that at a certain stage, He becomes God or exhibits the pastimes of God. Everything that He does is wonderful.

One time, I asked a big member of the Catholic Church about Lord Jesus and why it was that in the Bible, there was nothing mentioned about Jesus and His activities from the time He was twelve to thirty. And this person’s reply was that it could not have been very important since it wasn’t in the Bible. So, I immediately responded that anything, which the son of God does is important, whatever it may be. It is there to teach us so many things.

Srila Prabhupada’s household life has so many hidden instructions in it. And similarly, Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s early pastimes have so many wonderful hidden jewels, jewel-like instructions hidden in them. Not that the other instructions are important and these are not. How the Lord played as a child, just like Krishna. You can say that when Krishna spoke Bhagavad-gītā, it was really important. When Krishna grew up and did so many things as a grown up, He was so important. But we don’t say that. We think that Krishna’s activities were wonderful from the time of His birth all the way to the time He spoke Bhagavad-gītā and all the way to His disappearance pastime.

Similarly, the Caitanya-bhāgavata describes all of the early pastimes of Lord Chaitanya, and those who are the devotees of the Lord take great pleasure in hearing how the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the source of the brahman, who is the cause of all causes, the origin of all the expansions of Godhead, how He plays, apparently like an ordinary person. But for what purpose? To give so much pleasure to His devotees. He jokes with them. He interacts with them, just like His dealings with Mother Saci and Jagannatha Misra. They are full of transcendental delight for His devotees, how He played like a son, how He tricked them, how they considered Him to be like an ordinary son of theirs; these are all the influences of yoga-māyā.

Therefore, Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, in his Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and Vedavyasa in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śukadeva Gosvami, they have prepared the reader by giving so many explanations to prove how Krishna is the Supreme Lord or how Lord Chaitanya is the Supreme Lord. So, when it comes the time to describe the pastimes, the devotees will not think of it in an ordinary way.

So, we should not think it in any ordinary way hearing these pastimes, but we should hear them in a great sense of satisfaction, to become immersed in Lord Gauranga’s childhood pastimes, youthhood pastimes, early grihastha pastimes. All of these are pleasing. Prabhupada said that we do not only worship Krishna with the gopīs or Krishna in the battlefield of Kurukshetra, we worship Krishna in all of His different aspects.

Giriraj Swami: Well, the main qualification to offer service is the sincere desire to offer service. So, if someone has the sincere desire to serve Krishna and respects the sannyasis and spiritual masters as the representatives of Lord Krishna, then he can receive them and serve them according to his capacity.

Srila Prabhupada gave similar advice to us about how to receive guests, that we should at least offer them a place to sit, some water to drink, and some sweet words. And Srila Prabhupada used to personally train the devotees how to receive guests. Because in the Vedic culture, Atithi Devo Bhava, a guest, means an unexpected visitor, should be treated like a God. And Srila Prabhupada wanted us to have the same standard in ISKCON. Ideally, we should offer the guest full prasāda and a place to take rest, and Srila Prabhupada sometimes instructed that we should always have full prasāda for twenty guests in the temple at any time, and that we shouldn’t worry about scarcity because Srimati Radharani is the Supreme Goddess of Fortune, and She will provide as much as we need.

So, Srila Prabhupada himself was the perfect host, although a sannyasi and a guru, but he was a perfect host. And whenever his friends came to visit him, he always took very good care of them and he wanted us to do the same.

So, the main ingredient is devotion, the desire to serve, and the desire to please. Even if one is very poor and cannot offer much materially, if he has a sincere desire to serve and please, then the guest will be satisfied; sannyasi, or guru, or anyone. But, if one is not in the mood of devotion, then the guest will not be satisfied even if one offers so many material facilities.

Like Lord Krishna. He was invited by Duryodhana to have a feast, but He was invited in a very disrespectful way, so He refused. He preferred to go to the house of the poor couple, Vidhura and his wife, and eat with them. They were so poor that the only food they could offer Him was bananas. But they were so overwhelmed by the ecstatic love for Krishna when the Lord came to their home that they started to discard the food and offer the skins to Krishna, offer the peels to Krishna. But the offering was made with so much love and devotion that Krishan was very much relishing, eating the banana peels. And they were saying, “Lord, are You satisfied?” He said, “Oh yes! I am so satisfied. You have offered Me real nectar. I have not had such nectar.” So, the main ingredient in receiving any guest is devotion.

Yes, he says that there is Vaishnava etiquette, but the basis of all performances should be devotion, and without performance, just the etiquette will not satisfy the heart of the person, which is true. When Duryodhana invited Lord Krishna to eat, Lord Krishna said that one invites someone to eat if the person is hungry or if the person has love for the other person and he wants to serve the other person with love. So, Lord Krishna replied, “You don’t have any love for Me, neither am I hungry. So, what is the use?”

Devotee: According to the Vaishnava understanding, the Navadvipa līlā is similar to kṛṣṇa-līlā in Vrindavan, and the Puri līlā is similar to kṛṣṇa-līlā in Dvaraka. So, the Puri līlā, even though the mood of Mahaprabhu was particularly the highest during the Puri līlā, still, the Vaishnavas like to see Lord Chaitanya in His Nadia līlā, performing His pastimes amongst the Vaishnavas in Mayapur and preaching the holy name. And in Puri līlā, He is expressing His particular mood, what He came to experience personally and to explain that to the whole world in a more confidential way.

But in Krishna’s pastimes, the līlā in Vrindavan is considered the highest. In the same way, the līlā in Mayapur is considered the highest. Mahaprabhu’s childhood pastimes are very enchanting and He is also preaching the yuga-dharma, how to elevate the conditioned souls to the highest platform in general.

And in Puri, His līlā is more confidential, still, the Vaishnavas like to see it in relation to the kṛṣṇa-līlā, in the same way.

Tamal Krishna Goswami: Line of what mother [Unintelligible 52:18] has explained. The pastimes of Krishna in Vrindavan, they clearly are manifest. Of course, everything has deep meaning, but the pastimes are clear just in themselves. But Krishna’s mood when in sight is more when He left Vrindavan. For example, in Dvaraka, the form of Krishna that we see is Jagannatha. So, Lord Jagannatha’s mood is in sight. That means that the cores of His large eyes, the cores of His legs and His hands are coming inside His body, these are all ecstatic symptoms, which came from His internal meditation.

When Krishna was in Dvaraka externally as Vasudeva Krishna, as the son of Devaki and Vasudeva, He was doing the job of the king, a kshatriya. But we know that the original form of Krishna, Shyamsundara Krishna, is in Vrindavan only. And that Shyamsundara Krishna was the inner mood of the Krishna in Dvaraka. In other words, inside, He was always remembering Vrindavan and feeling great separation. And the display of the ecstatic symptoms, which are the cause of Lord Jagannatha’s appearance, His features; large eyes, withdrawn hands and legs, these are due to intense feelings of separation.

In the same way, so long Lord Chaitanya was in Mayapur and Navadvipa dhāma, His activities were inside and outside the same, meaning that He was interacting with Jagannatha Misra, His father, and Saci devi, and that is the meaning, the loving exchanges between them, and there was nothing else besides that. But when He goes to Puri, then His external activities, more or less, are something different than what is going inside, because outside, He is behaving like a sannyasi, but inside, He is in a completely different mood. He is always in separation, experiencing intense separation in the mood of Srimati Radharani, feeling separation from Lord Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Following in the same line as Mother [Unintelligible 56:53] and His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami, I would say that in terms of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s inner state of consciousness, His inner mood of ecstasy was higher in Jagannatha Puri, because in Jagannatha Puri, He went very deeply into the mood of Srimati Radharani, especially in the mood of Srimati Radharani in separation from Krishna. So, the inner ecstasy in Puri was higher. But although the inner ecstasy was higher in Puri, the devotees prefer Lord Chaitanya in Navadvipa because externally, the separation appears to be suffering. So, the devotees did not like to see Lord Chaitanya suffer. Although internally, the ecstasy was higher.

And after Lord Chaitanya took sannyasa and went to Jagannatha Puri, there was no [Unintelligible 57:57], so they couldn’t associate as freely with Mahaprabhu in Puri. As a sannyasi, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu accepted so many austerities and devotees did not like to see the Lord suffer the austerities of sannyasa. He would just sleep on the bare floor. Only with great difficulty did Svarupa Damodara Gosvami prepare a very thin mat for Lord Chaitanya to take rest on, and very reluctantly did Lord Chaitanya accept it. And when Jagadananda Pandita wanted to offer Him oil for massage or cushions for sitting and resting, Lord Chaitanya refused. So, their loving exchanges were chapped by Mahaprabhu’s mood as a sannyasi.

So, because of the intimacy and freedom of the pastimes in Navadvipa and because of the happiness of the Lord in Navadvipa, devotees prefer the Navadvipa pastimes. Although actually, the inner mood of ecstasy in Jagannatha Puri is considered higher.

“If Vaishnavas are against Mayavadis, why did Chaitanya Mahaprabhu accept sannyasa from one Mayavadi?”

Whatever Lord Chaitanya did was to set an example, of sorts. Here, He accepted sannyasa from Kesava Bharti. Actually, in kṛṣṇa-līlā, Kesava Bharati is Sandipani Muni, who is actually the spiritual master of Krishna and Balarama, but he was in a Mayavada sampradāya.

But although Lord Chaitanya accepted sannyasa in a Mayavada sampradāya, He showed the difference between Mayavada sannyasa and Vaishnava sannyasa. He didn’t change His name. He kept the same name of Chaitanya to show humility. Mayavadi sannyasis, when they take sannyasa, they think they become Narayana. They think they become para brahman. But Lord Chaitanya, to show humility, He kept His brahmachari name, and He also remained engaged in the service of the Lord, which is the main difference between Vaishnava sannyasa and Mayavada sannyasa. The Mayavadis think that they become God so they don’t have to serve God. But the Vaishnava sannyasis take sannyasa to confirm their eternal servitude to God.