SB 8.5.34 – Both Personal and Impersonal Conception Lead to Krishna

Giriraj Swami: 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Eight, Chapter Five, “The Demigods Appeal to the Lord for Protection,” 

TEXT 34

somaṁ mano yasya samāmananti
divaukasāṁ yo balam andha āyuḥ
īśo nagānāṁ prajanaḥ prajānāṁ
prasīdatāṁ naḥ sa mahā-vibhūtiḥ

TRANSLATION

Soma, the moon, is the source of food grains, strength and longevity for all the demigods. He is also the master of all vegetation and the source of generation for all living entities. As stated by learned scholars, the moon is the mind of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. May that Supreme Personality of Godhead, the source of all opulences, be pleased with us.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Soma, the predominating deity of the moon, is the source of food grains and therefore the source of strength even for the celestial beings, the demigods. He is the vital force for all vegetation. Unfortunately, modern so-called scientists, who do not fully understand the moon, describe the moon as being full of deserts. Since the moon is the source for our vegetation, how can the moon be a desert? The moonshine is the vital force for all vegetation, and therefore we cannot possibly accept that the moon is a desert.

COMMENT

So, there are different approaches to acquiring knowledge. One evidence is direct sense perception. Another type of evidence is logic and reason, and the third type of evidence is transcendental sound or words received from higher authorities. So, the materialistic scientists basically depend on sense perception, and on the basis of sense perception, they speculate theory.

In the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Krishna says nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī, that among the stars, I am the moon. Srila Prabhupada explains that just as the moon reflects the light of the sun, similarly, all stars reflect the light of the sun. There is only one sun in the universe. But the scientists misunderstand. They think there are many suns in the universe which are self-effulgent or self-illuminated. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī, Lord Krishna says that among stars, I am the moon. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna further says that He enters into each and every planet in the universe and keeps it in its orbit, and He also becomes the moon, and as the light of the moon, He gives the juice of life to the vegetation. Therefore, all the nutritional benefit and taste that we get from the vegetation actually comes from the moon.

So, the various descriptions of the various elements in the material creation as the Lord or as part of the Lord are meant to help us increase our Krishna consciousness. So, whenever we see anything within the world, we understand that we are seeing the Lord or the energy of the Lord. Those who are more absorbed in the impersonal conception will see the various manifestations within the universe as the Lord, and those who are more cognizant of the personal feature of the Lord will see the various manifestations as the energy of the Lord.

Once, when Srila Prabhupada was walking on Juhu Beach, he asked one devotee, “What is this?” pointing to the sea. So, the devotee answered, “That is the Arabian Sea.” Prabhupada replied, “I know that it Is the Arabian Sea. I am asking philosophically, what is it?” Then the devotee said, “It is Krishna because in Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Krishna says that among bodies of water, I am the ocean.” Prabhupada replied, “That is not scientific.” Finally, the devotee said, or Srila Prabhupada said or confirmed, “That it is the energy of the Lord.” But still, to help people who are more engrossed in materialism and who cannot understand the Personality of Godhead, to appreciate the presence of God, there are so many statements in Bhagavad-gītā that “I am the light of the sun and the moon, I am the taste of water,” and so on. So, Srila Prabhupada explains that the impersonalist, raso ‘ham apsu kaunteya, they think, the taste in the water is Krishna but actually, the taste in the water is the energy of Krishna, but because in one sense, the energy and the energetic are one, we can also say that the taste in the water is Krishna. But the devotee will think that the Lord is so kind, He has provided nice pure water to help us quench our thirst, and He will appreciate the Lord’s energy as the Lord’s gift, as the Lord’s mercy. So, everyone takes pleasure in seeing the moon; they feel relief from the light of the moon, and they can appreciate God, that He is the light of the moon or that the Lord has kindly provided the moon to us to make the vegetables grow, to give us relief, and so on. So ultimately, both the impersonal conception and the personal conception ultimately lead to Krishna, so there is no contradiction.

Now here, the moon is said to be the mind of the Lord because, at night, the moon is the central figure. There are so many little stars, but the moon is prominent. So within the body, there are many senses, but the moon—I mean the mind—is also considered the sixth sense, and it is the central point. So the whole purpose of the yoga system is to control the mind, control the senses, because the mind is the center of the senses. If we can control the mind, we can control the other senses. And the Bhagavad-gītā explains that the mind can be one’s best friend or one’s worst enemy. What is the difference between a friend and an enemy? No one is intrinsically a friend or an enemy, but someone is considered a friend or an enemy according to his behavior. If he serves to help us, he is considered a friend, and if he acts to harm us, he is considered an enemy. But intrinsically, he is neither a friend nor an enemy, but he is considered a friend or an enemy according to how he acts in relation to us. And the same person who was an enemy can later become a friend if he changes his behavior.

So similarly, the mind is not intrinsically a friend or an enemy, but according to its behavior, it acts as a friend or an enemy. And when the mind dwells on thoughts of sense gratification, it becomes our enemy. So when the mind is absorbed in thoughts of sense gratification, it becomes our worst enemy; it acts as our worst enemy. And when the same mind is absorbed in thoughts of Krishna’s service or Krishna’s Krishna consciousness, it becomes our best friend. So somehow, we have to learn the art of how to control the mind and engage the mind in Krishna consciousness. So, Srila Prabhupada has given the hint that if we keep the senses engaged in Krishna’s service, it will be easier to keep the mind absorbed in Krishna consciousness. Therefore, we chant on the beads because the beads engage the sense of touch. So the beads engage the sense of touch, and by vibrating the mantra, we engage the tongue; by hearing, we engage the ear. And in addition, while we chant, if we happen to look at the deity or a picture of the Lord, then the eyes are also engaged. If we smell the tulasi leaves offered to the lotus feet of the Lord or the incense, the sense of smell is engaged.

So the more we engage the senses in Krishna consciousness, the more easily we can engage the mind, which is the central point. Therefore, chanting is the best way to engage the mind because the sense of touch and the sense of hearing. Srila Prabhupada said that if two of the senses are engaged, the mind will be captured. So if the sense of touch is engaged and the sense of hearing is engaged, the mind will be captured.

Sometimes, Srila Prabhupada tells the story of Jenie. I have also mentioned it, but still, perhaps, one man had a bottle, and out of the bottle came a jean. And Jenie immediately approached the man and said, “Sir, I will do whatever you tell me to do. Whatever work you give me, I will do it. But if for one minute you do not give me any words, I will kill you.” So, immediately, the man said, “Okay, clean the living room.” They cleaned the living room, and he was back again. “Clean the kitchen,” so he cleaned the kitchen. “Clean the stove, clean the refrigerator, clean the pots, clean the utensils.” He did it, and he was back again. “Clean the ground, pick up all the dry leaves, pick up all the rubbish, take all the rubbish out to the street.” He did everything, and he was back. So the man became very anxious because he was running out of things to give the Jenie to do, and if he didn’t keep the Jenie busy, the Jenie was going to kill him. He had some coconut trees in the garden, so he told the Jenie, “Okay, bring the ripe coconut.” He brought the ripe coconut, but he was running out of things. He was very anxious. Then finally, he said, “Okay, climb to the top of each of the coconut trees, and when you reach the top, come back down to the bottom. And when you reach the bottom, go back up to the top. And when you reach the top, come back down to the bottom.” So this way, the Jenie was constantly engaged, and the proprietor was saved.

What is the purpose of the story? What was the Srila Prabhupada want to teach us? Jenie compared to the mind. Unless the mind is kept engaged in some work, the mind will act against us. And what can we give the mind to do constantly that will keep it always engaged? Just as the proprietor had the Jenie go up to the top and come back down, and go up to the top and come back down, so Srila Prabhupada has given us chanting beads to chant,

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

So, we go up to the top and come back down, and go up to the top and come back down. This way we can keep the mind engaged constantly and save ourselves from destruction. Chanting is most important, but alas, very few of us can keep engaged in chanting all day and all night. We need other engagements, and therefore, we have so many services like deity worship to keep the mind and the senses engaged. Somehow or other, as Rupa Gosvami says, one must keep the mind engaged in Krishna consciousness somehow or other. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada and previous acharyas have been given so many engagements.

But if there is no other engagement, “Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna…” in one morning Lokanatha Swami asked Srila Prabhupada, “Why you have prescribed sixteen rounds?” Srila Prabhupada replied, “I have not prescribed sixteen rounds. sixteen rounds is the minimum. If you can, you can do sixteen thousand, why sixteen? Sixteen is the minimum.” Then Srila Prabhupada said this: “How can devotees complain that they have no engagement? Because if they have no other engagement, they can go on chanting, Hare Krishna.” So this is the great gift of Srila Prabhupada and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the gift the holy name, which can engage the tongue, the ears, the mind constantly.

And Srila Prabhupada has also given us the Vedic scriptures that some people like to read, so let them read the Vedic scriptures and be reminded of Krishna. This is why we are reading the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and being reminded of Krishna. Along with being reminded of Krishna, we come to understand the absolute truth. We come to understand the Supreme Lord and his multifarious energies. We come to understand the purpose behind the creation. We come to understand who we are, what is the goal of life, and how to achieve it. We understand everything we need to know from the Vedic scriptures, and the knowledge we get from the Vedic scriptures is perfect because it is coming from the supreme truth. Whatever so-called knowledge we may get from so-called authorities in the material world is not actually knowledge. In most cases, it is actually ignorance, and therefore, the scientists and the politicians would have us believe that the moon is just a desert. Actually, after the so-called moon landing, one of the scientists commented that it looked just like the Arizona desert. Srila Prabhupada said, “Maybe that’s where they went. Maybe they staged the whole show in the Arizona desert,” and it didn’t have to come from my mouth; it came from their mouths.

There are many arguments against the idea that man went to the moon, but the basic argument is that according to the scriptures, the moon is a heavenly planet, and you can’t go to a heavenly planet by a spacecraft. Neither is a heavenly planet like a desert. One Prabhupada’s disciple named Tejas Prabhu was working in the Peace Corps before he met to Srila Prabhupada and devotees. The news came in the newspapers that man had gone to the moon, and Tejas Prabhu was working in some rural areas, maybe in South India. He said that when the news came, the villagers did not believe it. They said that the moon is Chandraloka; how could they go to the moon? Because of their faith in the authority of the Vedas, they actually came to the right conclusion, and all of the educated fools were fooled. Anyway, there are many arguments that Srila Prabhupada has given, but all the arguments rest on the basic conviction that the Vedas present the absolute truth. Now some people say, “Well, yes, you have to have faith in the Vedas if you have faith in those who believe, but our knowledge is not based on faith.” But actually, your knowledge is also based on faith. You haven’t gone to the moon; you haven’t seen the moon, but you have faith in what you read in the newspapers. You have faith in what you see on television. So everyone depends on faith for everything. To think anything, to believe anything, to do anything requires faith.

You are putting your faith in the scientists and the politicians, who we know are all imperfect, and we are putting our faith in the Vedas and in the Vedic authorities, who we know are perfect because every conditioned soul is defective, and the scientists and the politicians are conditioned souls. They are clearly defective, but we are putting our faith in liberated souls like the Veda Vyasa, who are beyond the defects of conditioned life. So you also base your understanding on faith, and we also base our understanding on faith, but you put your faith in fallible living entities, and we put our faith in the infallible Supreme Personality of Godhead and his representatives.

It is not a question that our beliefs are based on faith and your beliefs are based on something else. Even if you say that you only believe what you see, you don’t believe anyone else, you only believe what you see with your own eyes, what you are saying is that you are putting your faith in your eyes. Are your eyes so perfect? Can your eyes see what is going on behind this wall? Can your eyes see things that are very far or very small? Your eyes are so limited, so why do you have so much faith in your eyes? Ultimately, even if they say that they only believe what they see, they are putting their faith in their eyes, which are very imperfect. So the real question is not whether we are getting knowledge on the basis of faith because everyone accepts knowledge on the basis of faith. The real question is where are we going to place our faith? In perfect minds, in other people with imperfect minds and senses, in instruments like telescopes and microscopes that are made by imperfect people with imperfect senses, or are we going to place our faith in the all-perfect personality of Godhead and his words?

We are placing our faith in the Personality of Godhead and His representatives because we know that the knowledge coming from Him is perfect. Even otherwise, if we accept God as the creator, why should He create big lumps of rocks and stones without any purpose floating in space? Srila Prabhupada says, he has nothing better to do than to float chunks of rock and stone in space. He has created the planets with a purpose, and the purpose is to give facility to the living entities enjoy and suffer according to their work, and thus, he has created the sun, the moon, and the various planets as places where the living entities can reside and enjoy and suffer. He hasn’t created them for nothing.

So anyway, there are so many arguments; we don’t need to repeat them all. But the basic conclusion is that we in Krishna consciousness have faith in Krishna and Krishna’s word, Krishna’s representatives, and we are not bewildered by the fallacious arguments of the fallible conditioned soul. Because we have faith in Krishna and Krishna’s word, we go forward towards our goal of life, which is Krishna, and thus we always chant,

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Are there any questions or comments?

Question: . . .very good point from Vaman deva. His body is very small, but his brain is very big. He says that whether people have faith in the Vedic knowledge or not, the Vedic knowledge is true and it never changes. The theories of the scientists are always changing.

Giriraj Swami: Recently, I happened to visit—not visit, but pass—my old junior high school. I went through an educational system that was considered the best or one of the best in the country. I remember one momentous evening. It was so great and so serious; the principal of the school, he was a scientific genius. One night, he called all the parents for a special meeting to explain that now the scientists had understood how the universe was created. It was like such a revolution.

There was a board, a green one, not black, and he took the edge of the chalk and filled the whole board with white. He said that originally the universe was pervaded by some existence or substance called ylem, and then at a certain stage, all the ylem condensed and came into a point, and then the point exploded, and that was how the universe was created. So I am thinking back, like all the parents and we also, the students who attended—it was such a momentous occasion that he was revealing how the universe was created. He took it so seriously, and all the parents also took it so seriously. But now, by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, looking back on the incident, we see how silly it is, how ridiculous it is, and they really took it very seriously. So Vaman deva’s point is correct—they are always changing their theories. The books that we studied as texts in science can no longer be used because the old theories have been replaced by new theories. The books that contain the present theories will also be outdated in the future, and there will be new books with new theories. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada said that the Bhagavad-gītā is actually scientific. Science means facts, which do not change. The knowledge in Bhagavad-gītā has not changed in millions of years, whereas the so-called knowledge of the so-called scientists changes every day. So it is true; people may have faith or not, but the knowledge remains, and the fact that it remains the same without any change proves that it is eternally true.

I remember when sometimes the devotees would tell Srila Prabhupada what current scientific theories are, and Srila Prabhupada would reply. So they told him about the big bang theory, and Srila Prabhupada said, “So now they think in the beginning there was a chunk, and the chunk exploded. But who has made the chunk, and who has made it to explode? They have not considered.” So just in three sentences, Srila Prabhupada completely debunked the whole bogus theory. But they really presented it in pseudo-religious terms. Srila Prabhupada understood everything: “In the beginning, there was the chunk.”

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande Hari Haribol!