SB 2.5.8 – Discussing the Scriptures Is Much More Potent

Giriraj Swami: 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Two, Chapter Five — “The Cause of All Causes,”

TEXT 8

etan me pṛcchataḥ sarvaṁ
sarva-jña sakaleśvara
vijānīhi yathaivedam
ahaṁ budhye ‘nuśāsitaḥ

TRANSLATION

My dear father, you know everything, and you are the controller of all. Therefore, may all that I have inquired from you be kindly instructed to me so that I may be able to understand it as your student.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The inquiries made by Nārada Muni are very important for everyone concerned, and as such, Nārada requested Brahmājī to deem them suitable so that all others who may come in the line of disciplic succession of the Brahma sampradāya may also know them properly without any difficulty.

TEXT 9 [Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.5.9]

brahmovāca
samyak kāruṇikasyedaṁ
vatsa te vicikitsitam
yad ahaṁ coditaḥ saumya
bhagavad-vīrya-darśane

TRANSLATION

Lord Brahmā said: My dear boy Nārada, being merciful to all (including me) you have asked all these questions because I have been inspired to see into the prowess of the Almighty Personality of Godhead.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Brahmājī, being so questioned by Nāradajī, congratulated him, for it is usual for the devotees to become very enthusiastic whenever they are questioned concerning the Almighty Personality of Godhead. That is the sign of a pure devotee of the Lord. Such discourses on the transcendental activities of the Lord purify the atmosphere in which such discussions are held, and the devotees thus become enlivened while answering such questions. It is purifying both for the questioners and for one who answers the questions. The pure devotees are not only satisfied by knowing everything about the Lord, but are also eager to broadcast the information to others, for they want to see that the glories of the Lord are known to everyone. Thus the devotee feels satisfied when such an opportunity is offered to him. This is the basic principle of missionary activities.

COMMENT

So here, Narada muni is acting as the ideal student and Lord Brahma as the ideal teacher. Narada was very eager to inquire about the absolute truth as stated in Vedanta sutra “Athāto brahma jijñāsā." The word athā means “Therefore.” Actually, “athāto brahma jijñāsā” is the first sutra in Vedanta sutra. So the word “therefore” generally follows some antecedent, but there is no antecedent. So what is the meaning of “therefore.” The acharyas explain that “therefore” indicates that now that you have come to the human form of life, which is especially meant for inquiring into the absolute truth and realizing god and one’s eternal relationship with god, now that you have come to the human form of life, therefore you should inquire into the absolute truth. And the eagerness to inquire about the absolute truth is the first qualification of the disciples. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam the Bhāgavatam says that when one is eager to enquire to the highest good, he should approach a spiritual master śreya uttamam. In Sanskrit there are two words śreya and preya. Śreya means ultimate benefit and preya means immediate gratification. So generally, ordinary persons, materialistic persons, are interested in immediate gratification. They see something and they want it. They want to possess it; they want to enjoy it. They don’t think about the implications in the future. They will just say they want it, and they try to get it, and when they get it, they try to enjoy it. But as Krishna says in Bhagavad-gītā, when one tries to enjoy the senses or the contact of the senses with sense objects, ultimately the result is that one suffers.

So an intelligent person will understand the process of sense gratification, that the process of sense gratification results in frustration and pain, and therefore he will not just rush into sense gratification. But all we know as conditioned souls is the senses and the objects of the senses. So if one understands the futility of sense gratification, what alternative is left for him? So the impersonalists, by mental speculation, conclude that yes, sense gratification results in frustration, so we should not indulge in sense gratification. They think individuality results in misery, so no individuality. Activity results in misery, so no activity. So they try to make everything zero, void. No individuality, no thinking, no feeling, no desire, no acting, just zero. But we are living beings, we are a spiritual entity, we cannot become zero. But if we act as previously in sense gratification, we will suffer. So what alternative is left for us?

So when one understands the futility of sense gratification and also the futility of trying to extinguish one’s individuality, then he will inquire into the absolute truth. Beyond if, we want to know anything beyond what we can understand from sense gratification and mental speculation, we have to approach a superior authority. So therefore, when one is intelligent enough to understand that sense gratification brings suffering and that extinction of one’s individual existence is impossible, then he has to inquire. Yeah, he has to inquire because with his own intelligence he cannot go any further. So to whom one should enquire?

The only person who can really solve the problems of life is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have to get knowledge from the Lord himself. But again, we cannot approach the Lord directly. Very few can approach the Lord directly. Brahma could, Arjuna could, but we are not in that position. So we have to approach the Lord’s representative, the spiritual master, and that is the basis of the relationship between the disciple and the spiritual master, that the disciple wants to inquire into the absolute truth, into how to solve the problems of life. What are the problems of life? Birth, repeated birth, death, old age, and disease. These are the problems of life, and we cannot solve them materially. Some people don’t even like to talk about them. They think, Oh, why are you being so negative, talking about death? You should be positive. Life is here to be enjoyed; youth is here to be enjoyed. Why do you want to remind us of death and disease and old age? But these are the problems of life, and they confront us at every step. At every step, we are always in anxiety. Conditioned souls are always in anxiety. What will happen to me in the future? Will I get sick? What will happen to me in my old age? Who will take care of me? And death, nobody wants to die. Death is the worst calamity. In fact, compared to death, all other calamities are insignificant.

So these are the problems of life, and a sober person or an intelligent person will want to solve them. In order to solve them, he has to approach a superior authority. But in Narada, although he is acting as a student, he is not ordinary. And therefore, in the next verse, Lord brahma refers to Narada as “kāruṇikasya,” you are very kind, you are very merciful because even though you don’t need to inquire for yourself, you are inquiring for the sake of others. You are inquiring for the sake of others who don’t know the answers to the questions, so that they may also hear the answers and become enlightened. And Lord Brahma even considers that Narada is being kind to him because he is giving him a chance to remember Krishna, to speak about Krishna, to glorify Krishna.

So we find throughout Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that the speakers become very enlivened when there are appropriate questions from the audience. When Lord Krishna entered into the mouth of the Aghāsura demon and killed Him, the subject of Krishna’s wonderful pastime of killing the Aghāsura demon was not discussed in Vrindavan for one year. So Maharaja Parīkṣit heard that the event was not discussed for one year, he became very inquisitive. Why was it not discussed for one year? And Śukadeva Gosvami became very enlivened. He said that by your questions, you are making the subject matter even more relishable. Even more relishable. Who knows the answer, by the way, why this topic was not discussed for one year?

Yes, because after Krishna killed the Aghāsura demon, He and the cowherd boys went to enjoy the picnic lunch together, by the way, did you ever have the picnic in Vrindavan? No, we are not able. While we await that fortunate moment, anyway, the tradition of having picnics has existed for thousands of years, and even Krishna and the cowherd boys used to enjoy picnics together. Lord Krishna and Balarama would sit in the center, and the cowherd boys would sit around them in a circle, they were just like the whorl of the lotus flower. Krishna, Balarama, and the cowherd boys were just like the petals of the lotus flower. Krishna and Balarama were the center of attraction and everyone was entranced, looking at the beauty of Krishna and Balarama, and there was so much exchange between Krishna, Balarama, and the cowherd boys. They also used to joke; they used to steal prasāda from each other and enjoy it.

So, Lord Brahma had heard that Krishna was the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He had seen that the residents of Vrindavan take Krishna very seriously, but to His eyes, Krishna was just a little boy. So why should they take a little boy so seriously? He wanted to test who Krishna actually was? By his mystic power, he stole all the cowherd boys and calves. While the boys were enjoying their picnic, the calves strayed away, looking for fresh grasses. When Krishna noticed that the calves had strayed, He offered that He will go and bring them back. You see, Krishna had such a nice mood of service to the devotees. He didn’t even want to let the devotees go and get the calves, which they would have been very happy to do, but he wanted the devotees to enjoy their picnic lunch, and he was the one who offered to go and bring the calves back.

He left the cowherd boys and went to bring the calves back, but He kept searching further and further and couldn’t find them. So He returned to the original place, and when He got there, He saw that the cowherd boys were also gone. He was puzzled and thought, What is happening? But ultimately, He considered that He had to return to Vrindavan. If He returned to Vrindavan without the cowherd boys and calves, then the mothers and fathers of the boys and the calves would be filled with anxiety “Where are our children?” So He decided to expand Himself into an exact duplicate set of cowherd boys and calves. Anyway, you know the story. For one year, the original cowherd boys and calves were under the mystic potency of Lord Brahma, and the duplicate set of cowherd boys and calves were in Vrindavan.

Therefore, there was no discussion of the killing of the Aghāsura demon for one year. When Maharaja Parīkṣit asked Śukadeva Gosvami why the topic wasn’t discussed for one year, Śukadeva Goswami became very enlivened and said that the topic was becoming fresher by your inquiry. The audience is very important in the discussion of transcendental topics or in the reciprocation of knowledge between the teacher and the student and therefore in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu Srila Rupa Gosvami left an inquiry is the fourth preliminary item of devotional service after accepting the shelter of a spiritual master, taking initiation from the spiritual master, and serving the spiritual master. The next item is to inquire; it is essential.

So here, Narada is inquiring from Brahma, tad viddhi praṇipātena,paripraśnena sevayā asking questions Sanatana Gosvami enquires from Lord Chaitanya “Who am I? Why am I suffering in the material world? How can I become free from suffering?” Lord Chaitanya answers to the questions of Sanatana Gosvami comprise five chapters of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Srila Krishnadasa Kavirāja Gosvami says that by the mercy of the Lord, Sanatana Gosvami got the strength and intelligence to inquire of Lord Chaitanya. It is not so easy to ask significant questions to a spiritual authority; sometimes, one might be afraid. But Sanatana Gosvami by the grace of the Lord, given the strength and intelligence to inquire, and the speaker becomes very enlivened because he gets the chance to think of Krishna. Therefore, Srila Prabhupada said that preaching is the best way to become Krishna conscious. In one lecture in Calcutta, he said that preaching is the best way to become Krishna conscious because when you preach, people will ask questions. Sometimes the questions are very difficult, very awkward. How will we get the answer? Srila Prabhupada said we will get the answer by surrendering to Krishna, by praying to Krishna, “Please give me the answer, please enlighten me, please speak through me.” So we have to think of Krishna. Preaching is the best way to become Krishna conscious.

Inquiries about Krishna are beneficial both to the listener and to the speaker because they inspire talks about Krishna and remembrance of Krishna. After hearing and chanting comes remembering, and our ultimate purpose is to remember Krishna. That is Krishna consciousness—to remember Krishna. We practice remembering Krishna in life so that we can remember Krishna at the time of death. If we remember Krishna at the time of death, then our life is successful. This is why Srila Prabhupada created ISKCON. This is why he introduced the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class and the Bhagavad-gītā class, because he said that discussing scripture is much more potent, much more beneficial than just reading by oneself. Just like we chant our rounds, it is an individual activity. Srila Prabhupada could have introduced reading as an individual activity as part of the morning program, but he didn’t. He introduced the class, which means discussion of the subject and which sometimes culminates in questions and answers. He said that that is much more powerful than simply reading by oneself.

By Srila Prabhupada’s mercy, we have all come together. He is given us translations of the scriptures to discuss, and he is given us the class where we have the chance to hear, speak, ask questions, and ultimately remember Krishna. That is the success of life. Hare Krishna any questions?

Devotee 1: [Unintelligible 00:32:30]

Giriraj Swami: He is instructing me with his question, and I am very grateful to him. As in all cases, Srila Prabhupada is our example, and he always presented himself as the humble servant of Krishna. He compared himself to the peon. The peon personally is very poor, but he can deliver something valuable. The peon might only be getting a hundred rupees salary, but he can deliver an envelope with one crore of rupees. The peon’s credit is not that he is a rich man; the peon’s credit is that he has delivered the message from the rich man. He is delivered the envelope from the rich man and he hasn’t touched it, he hasn’t taken something out or put something else in, but he is just delivered it as it is. In the same way, the spiritual master is like a peon, or in the West, we would say like a postman. He just delivers the envelope. It doesn’t matter that personally he is a poor man, but he can deliver an envelope with one million dollars in it, and you will appreciate it if you have got one million dollars. So personally, we may be very insignificant, but if we just present the message of Krishna as it is, people will benefit, and they will appreciate it, and they will give us the credit. Why does someone want to impress the audience? Maybe they want to attract them to Krishna, but even if there is some trace of desire for profit, adoration, and distinction, even that can be fulfilled by just presenting the message as it is.

Once, His Holiness Harikesa Swami Maharaja was Srila Prabhupada’s secretary, and at a certain stage, Srila Prabhupada kicked him out. Harikesa Maharaja was very upset because he wanted to serve Srila Prabhupada personally, and Prabhupada was rejecting him. But later, Srila Prabhupada commented that he thought, This boy is simply riding behind the typewriter; he could do much more, so he should go out. After Srila Prabhupada kicked him out, he went to Eastern Europe and began to preach, and the people responded wonderfully. At the end of the meetings, they would just come up to him and praise him for what he had said. So later, Harikesa Maharaja approached Srila Prabhupada and said, “Srila Prabhupada I am just repeating what I heard from you, but they are all giving me the credit, and I feel very guilty. They are giving me the credit, and I am just repeating what you said.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “You fool, this is our process. We are all just repeating.” Even if one does want some recognition from the audience, some appreciation from the audience, if he just repeats the message of Krishna as he has heard it from His spiritual master, from Srila Prabhupada, it will have potency. It will have potency, and we will get the credit. We will get the credit even though we don’t deserve it, but we will still get it.

Krishna told Arjuna to just become my instrument and fight. The enemy is already killed by me, but you become the instrument, and you get the credit. Actually, Krishna was doing it, but He wanted Arjuna to get the credit. So similarly, when we preach, we are just repeating what we have heard from Srila Prabhupada and our spiritual master. Actually, we are not doing anything. They are actually doing everything, but still, they are so merciful they allow us to get the credit. But we should be careful not to distract the audience by our display of our intelligence or our display of our artistically. There was one very interesting discussion when a devotee named Prajapati approached Srila Prabhupada, in Los Angeles. I just happened to be in the room, and Prajapati said that his wife had learned classical Indian dance and she wanted to perform at the Sunday program. So Srila Prabhupada replied that we do not require such dances for our preaching. Then Prajapati said that she thought she should offer the best thing that she can do for Krishna, and the best thing that she can do is Indian classical dance. He was insisting.

Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, all right, then she can dance for the deities.” In those days in Los Angeles, they had the serenade. I don’t know if you ever had it in New Vrindavan, but they would dress the deities in the night outfit, and then after the deities were dressed in the night outfit, the doors would open, and there would be like a little kirtan. It became known as the serenade. It was next sing for the deities, and then they would take rest. Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, then, if she really wants to make an offering to Krishna, she can perform in front of the deities at night when no one else is present.” Then Prajapati Prabhu said, “Well, she is dancing about Krishna. Why can’t it be used for preaching?” Then Srila Prabhupada said “In Krishna consciousness, we give the main emphasis to the subject matter, which is Krishna, and in dance, the main emphasis is on the artistic gestures of the dancer.” Anyway, he was insisting that she dance about Krishna. Finally, Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, she may be dancing about Krishna, but the audience is going to be looking at Her body, and they are going to be going to hell.”

The point is that in Krishna consciousness, we give the main emphasis to Krishna, to the subject, not to the art. If we try to speak very artistically or very intellectually, show off our knowledge, and divert the audience from the real subject, which is Krishna, to our intelligence or our knowledge or our oratory, then we are defeating our real purpose. So that is true. We should be plain and simple, Srila Prabhupada spoke very simply. One life member told me, I don’t know if he was exaggerating, but he told me that because he was very friendly with Srila Prabhupada, the Malhotras in Pune, the second brother, Malhotra, told me that their habit was to receive saintly persons who came to Pune. Although their main attachment was to Srila Prabhupada, they would receive others also. According to Mr. Malhotra, when Swami Chinmayananda came to Pune, he was driving him in his car to some Gītā gyan yajña. Somehow he mentioned Srila Prabhupada name to swami Chinmayananda and Swami Chinmayananda became completely agitated “Bhaktivedanta Swami don’t talk about Bhaktivedanta Swami, I can speak millions of times better than him.” Now, there are people who are brilliant speakers, but they are not pure devotees. Anyway, Mr. Malhotra, according to him, told Swami Chinmayananda that, “You may be a brilliant speaker, but what is the use if you are not free from envy?”

So purity is the force. Purity is the force. Srila Prabhupada purity in one sense was based on his humility. In the last pandal program, which was at Cross Maidan in 1977, Srila Prabhupada said that people say, “Swamiji, Swamiji, you have done wonderful.” But Srila Prabhupada said, “What wonderful? I haven’t done anything. I have just presented the message of Krishna as it is.” Then he said that he hadn’t even done that very well, but that the subject itself was so good that it had wonderful effects. As a pure devotee, he felt like he didn’t want to come in the way. We sometimes think the opposite, that the subject is a bit dull, so maybe we have to add something to make it more attractive or more interesting. But Srila Prabhupada thought the opposite because he knew that talks about Krishna are the same as Krishna. Krishna is all-attractive, He had realization. But he says that anything that he projects of himself will just come in the way. He didn’t want to come in the way of Krishna. He just wanted to present Krishna as he is, and therefore he tried to put Krishna in the forefront and keep Himself in the background. If we have that mood, even anything done in that mood we will be able to present Krishna, people will benefit.

Devotee 2: [Unintelligible: 00:46:00]

Giriraj Swami: Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta, karmis want sense gratification, jnanis want liberation and yogis want mystic perfection. One is deceitful as they all have selfish desires. So you are asking where the desire for mystic perfection fits in. It basically fits in the category of sense gratification. Srila Prabhupada said that by mystic powers, the yogis can enjoy vast amounts of material happiness. But, the result is material happiness; it is nothing more. He quoted the scientist who made the observation that many of the achievements of the yogis have been duplicated by the scientists. A yogi can fly in the air, but by airplanes, we can also fly in the air. Yogi can enter into stone, but by modern excavation, we can also enter into stone. So basically, what they are doing is material, and ultimately it comes to sense gratification.

The goal of yoga is to realize God within the heart. There was one devotee who had been a yogi, I mean a real yogi, who had studied with yogis in the Himalayas. He was saying that the siddhis, the mystic powers that one gets from yoga practice, are just like indications that one is making progress in one’s practice. They are not at all meant to be used or enjoyed. They are just like signposts that you would reach this stage in your practice — aṣṭāṅga, yama, niyama and they are just meant to let that you are making progress to this point and go further. But the only result that the yogi is supposed to desire is to realize the Lord in the heart. He said if the indications that one is making progress are actually utilized by the yogi for personal happiness, it is considered a fall down, considered a fault. If someone engages in yogic practice for the sake of enjoying mystic perfections, then he hasn’t understood what the real purpose of yoga is from the very beginning.

At the beginning of creation, Brahmaji actually saw Vishnu, and for people in general to understand that Vishnu as God Almighty is easier because He is presenting Himself as God Almighty. But Krishna is hard to recognize as God because He plays just as an ordinary child. As Brahma would be bewildered. As brahma, although he is very intelligent, even then, by material intelligence, one cannot understand Krishna. Krishna can only be understood by pure devotional service. But even then, when one disciple asked Srila Prabhupada, “Lord Brahma is the first spiritual master in the whole disciplic succession, sometimes he forgets Krishna or he misunderstands Krishna. He challenges Krishna. So how could he be a spiritual master?” Srila Prabhupada replied that may be true, but when he repeats the message of Krishna, he repeats it perfectly.

Some people say that he wanted to see more pastimes of Krishna, that Brahma wanted to see more pastimes of Krishna, and therefore, to create more pastimes, He stole the cowherd boys and calves. But Srila Prabhupada never really presented that idea. Some devotees raised the question that sometimes Brahma became bewildered by his daughter. So they raised the question that if even such great personalities as Lord Brahma can be bewildered, then what is our position? What is the hope for us? No hope for us? Srila Prabhupada said “No, that is not the idea. What we should think when we hear about such incidents is that Lord Brahma is so great, even he became bewildered. So how much more careful should I be?” That should be our response.

Devotee 3: [Unintelligible: 00:52:50]

Giriraj Swami: Well, certainly reading is beneficial; Srila Prabhupada wanted us to study his books. But when we read, if we read with real interest, questions are bound to come to mind. And even if we don’t have the chance to come to class, we can meet devotees and discuss. That is iṣṭagoṣṭhī.

In fact, once, in Juhu, we had a discussion about why Krishna’s pastimes in Gokula are considered more relishable than His pastimes in Goloka. One reason given was that in Gokula, there are demons, and in Goloka, there are no demons, so the pastimes of Krishna with the demons are only here. Another answer was given that in Goloka, the gopīs have no husbands, whereas here they have husbands, so the pastimes become more relishable because of the husbands. So, after the discussion, Tamal Krishna Goswami reported the discussion to Srila Prabhupada, and Srila Prabhupada said, “This is very good. This is how we should be spending our time, by discussing topics of Krishna.”

Devotee 4: [Unintelligible: 00:54:45]

Giriraj Swami: Maharaja said that there are some professional performances of Rama līlā and kṛṣṇa-līlā near the Juhu temple and that some devotees are going there. So, what would Srila Prabhupada say? What would you say?

Well, as it is the system in Vedic circles to refer questions to higher authorities, I will relate one incident that took place two nights ago. His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami came into my office, and he said that the Yudhisthira Prabhu had said that there was some nice kṛṣṇa-līlā nearby and that maybe his mother, meaning His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami’s mother, would like to see it. So, maharaja was asking me whether he should go with his mother to see it because he was already aware that devotees from the Juhu temple were going, coming back late, missing maṅgala-ārati, and other things which he considered undesirable. He was afraid that if he went, even with his mother, they might take it as precedent that, “Oh, he went, so why can’t we go?”

Just then, His Grace Kesava Bharati Prabhu came into the office, and He understood the discussion. I repeated it a little, and he got the gist. Then Kesava Bharati Prabhu said, “What would Srila Prabhupada say?” And then he imagined what Srila Prabhupada would say and he would call Jayadvaita Swami and say “So why you are not in maṅgala-ārati.” Then he will say Oh Srila Prabhupada I went to see kṛṣṇa-līlā last night. Oh you went to see kṛṣṇa-līlā what kṛṣṇa-līlā? Who is performing kṛṣṇa-līlā, who told you to do this? So that was his understanding of what Srila Prabhupada would say. When His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami heard the answer, he accepted it, and he decided not to go. He actually felt relieved that some valuable time that could have been used in Krishna’s service was saved from having to see some professionals perform kṛṣṇa-līlā. Because again, the potency of the performance will depend on the purity of the actors. So if there are performances of Rama līlā or kṛṣṇa-līlā done by pure devotees, pure devotees meaning those who at least accept Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and themselves as the eternal servants of Krishna, following the regulative principles of spiritual life and chanting the holy name of Krishna, that will have potency and that will be beneficial. It will be beneficial. Otherwise, just to be entertained either by a dance or a drama or a discourse we are not going to be entertained. We are trying to understand Krishna and increase our love for Krishna, increase our mood of service to Krishna, not just to be entertained and pass the time. Anyway we pray to Srila Prabhupada to keep us on the right track. Or if we go off the track, to put us back on.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!
Nitai-Gaura premānande