SB 4.16.9 – Giriraj Swami with Bhakti Charu Swami—A Reservoir of Good Qualities

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Four, Chapter Sixteen, “Praise of King Pṛthu by the Professional Reciters,” Text Nine.

TEXT 9

āpyāyayaty asau lokaṁ
vadanāmṛta-mūrtinā
sānurāgāvalokena
viśada-smita-cāruṇā

TRANSLATION

This King, Pṛthu Mahārāja, by virtue of his affectionate glances and beautiful moonlike face, which is always smiling with great affection for the citizens, will enhance everyone’s peaceful life.

COMMENT

There is no purport, so we will proceed to the next verse. Please repeat.

TEXT 9

avyakta-vartmaiṣa nigūḍha-kāryo
gambhīra-vedhā upagupta-vittaḥ
ananta-māhātmya-guṇaika-dhāmā
pṛthuḥ pracetā iva saṁvṛtātmā

TRANSLATION

The reciters continued: No one will be able to understand the policies the King will follow. His activities will also be very confidential, and it will not be possible for anyone to know how he will make every activity successful. His treasury will always remain unknown to everyone. He will be the reservoir of unlimited glories and good qualities, and his position will be maintained and covered just as Varuṇa, the deity of the seas, is covered all around by water.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

There is a predominating deity for all the material elements, and Varuṇa, or Pracetā, is the predominating deity of the seas and the oceans. From outward appearances the seas and oceans are devoid of life, but a person acquainted with the sea knows that within the water exist many varieties of life. The king of that underwater kingdom is Varuṇa. Just as no one can understand what is going on beneath the sea, no one could understand what policy King Pṛthu was following to make everything successful. Indeed, King Pṛthu’s path of diplomacy was very grave. His success was made possible because he was a reservoir of unlimited glorified qualities.

The word upagupta-vittaḥ is very significant in this verse. It indicates that no one would know the extent of the riches King Pṛthu would confidentially keep. The idea is that not only the king but everyone should keep his hard-earned money confidentially and secretly so that in due course of time the money can be spent for good, practical purposes. In Kali-yuga, however, the king or government has no well-protected treasury, and the only means of circulation is currency notes made of paper. Thus in times of distress the government artificially inflates the currency by simply printing papers, and this artificially raises the price of commodities, and the general condition of the citizens becomes very precarious. Thus keeping one’s money very secretly is an old practice, for we find this practice present even during the reign of Mahārāja Pṛthu. Just as the king has the right to keep his treasury confidential and secret, the people should also keep their individual earnings a secret. There is no fault in such dealings. The main point is that everyone should be trained in the system of varṇāśrama-dharma so that the money is spent only for good causes and nothing else.

COMMENT

When we look at the sea or the ocean, we see only water. And superficially, one might conclude that the ocean consists of water only. But if one goes deep in the water of the ocean, he will find so many aquatics. And therefore, the hotels and entrepreneurs rent boats to the tourists, so they can see the varieties of life in the water. Sometimes the tourists rent equipment and go under the water to see the fish and other sea creatures.

But beyond the various sea creatures, there is also the God of the seas who is named Varuna. And we read in the Tenth Canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Kṛṣṇa book, how once, when Nanda Maharaja and the other cowherd men of Vrindavan were observing Ekādaśī, they took bath in the waters at an inauspicious time, and therefore, Nanda Maharaja was arrested and brought to the custody of Varuna, and ultimately, Lord Krishna also entered the sea and delivered Nanda Maharaja from the custody of Varuna deva. So here, the professional reciters are making the point that just like the God of the sea is covered by water and no one can see Him, similarly, the policies and plans of Pṛthu Maharaja would also be covered.

In the list of the qualities of Krishna, one of the qualities is grave. And Srila Rupa Gosvami gives the definition of grave, that no one can understand the thoughts of a grave person. In other words, he keeps things inside, he does not just blurt things out. And therefore, people cannot know what is in his mind. And this is one of Krishna’s qualities, one of Krishna’s sixty-four qualities, and it is also one of the fifty qualities of the devotees of Krishna.

So, sometimes the devotee should be grave, and Pṛthu Maharaja exemplified the quality of gravity. Even Chanakya Pandita, the great politician and moralist, has instructed that one should not disclose his plans to others, otherwise, one’s plans may be spoiled. Sometimes Srila Prabhupada also exhibited the quality of gravity. And once, his foolish disciple tried to get him to reveal his mind, but he was too grave.

The history is that in 1970, Srila Prabhupada received an invitation from a gentleman to come to Madras and preach. The gentleman’s name was Dr. Bali, and he was the husband of Vyjayanthimala, who was a famous Bharat Natyam dancer and film artist. Dr. Bali also had a secret motive, but Srila Prabhupada was very expert in understanding other people’s secret motives. His motive was that he had a big house, or his wife had a big house in Madras. So, he thought that if we come to Madras and preach, Srila Prabhupada may want to purchase the house to use as a center.

Anyway, we were in Delhi with Srila Prabhupada for the first big Delhi pandal, and Srila Prabhupada disclosed that he had the invitation. But the plan was that Srila Prabhupada and the disciples would go to Vrindavan from Delhi for the first time, since Srila Prabhupada had returned to India with his disciples.

So, Srila Prabhupada asked me if I would go to Madras. And I knew that the disciple is supposed to follow the instruction of the spiritual master and fulfill the desire of the spiritual master, so even though most of the devotees were very much in the mood that they wanted to go to Vrindavan with Srila Prabhupada, I agreed.

So, anyway, we went to Madras, and ultimately, Srila Prabhupada came, and after Madras, we followed Srila Prabhupada to Mayapur. So, when I arrived in Mayapur, I guess Srila Prabhupada was trying to encourage me. So, when I arrived in Mayapur, Srila Prabhupada spoke, “During the British rule, there were three states; Bombay, Calcutta, and Madras. So, which do you want?” So, I said, “Srila Prabhupada, I will do whatever you want me to do.” Srila Prabhupada said, “No, I want you to decide.” From the time I had joined, I had always done what I was told to do. I never made any such decision, and I did not even know how to make it. So, again, I said, “Srila Prabhupada, whatever you want me to do, I will do.” He said, “No, I want you to decide.”

So, I thought about why Srila Prabhupada was asking me to decide, and I realized that he was trying to bring me to a higher level of Krishna consciousness, because how would I know what to do, how would I know what Srila Prabhupada or Lord Krishna wanted me to do? I would have to become more surrendered so that somehow, they would reveal within my heart what they want me to do.

So, from Mayapur, we went to Calcutta with Srila Prabhupada. And every day, I was chanting very intensely in front of the Deities, beautiful Deities of Sri Sri Radha-Govinda, and waiting for some indication of what to do, but nothing was coming. And Srila Prabhupada was going to be leaving soon, and I wanted to settle what I would be doing before he left.

So, one evening, I went into his room, and I thought I would try to get Srila Prabhupada to disclose, somehow or other, what he wanted me to do. So, I came before Srila Prabhupada, sat down at his feet, and said, “Srila Prabhupada, I was thinking that maybe I should preach in Madras because I have already been there, and I have made so many friends and people responded very favorably, so maybe Madras would be the best.” And I was looking at Srila Prabhupada’s face to see if he would give in any indication of approval or disapproval, but he was completely grave. He said, “Yes.”

So then, I thought I would try Calcutta. I said, “But then again, I thought maybe Calcutta would be the best because Calcutta is such a big city, and they really need help here.” Again, I was looking at Srila Prabhupada to see if there would be any indication at all, but nothing. And in the same tone, neutral tone, he said, “Yes.”

So, by then, I was starting to think that maybe my plan would not succeed. But I thought, Anyway, let me try Bombay. So, I said, “But then again, I thought maybe Bombay would be the best because Bombay is the richest city in India.” No indication at all, in the same neutral tone, Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes.”

So then, I realized that I could not trick my spiritual master. And actually, I felt very glad. Although I felt ashamed that I had tried to trick him, but I felt very glad that my spiritual master was so grave and so intelligent that he could not be tricked by a foolish disciple. So, Srila Prabhupada was grave, Krishna also is grave. Sometimes it is very hard to understand the plan of Krishna.

Devotee: Finally, what happened?

Giriraj Swami: Oh, what happened? Well, Srila Prabhupada left and I did not have any answer. So, I was just constantly thinking, What should I do? What do Prabhupada and Krishna want me to do? So, days were going by, I was getting more and more nervous because I needed some answer, and Srila Prabhupada already left Calcutta, but he was going to be leaving India. So, one day, I guess it is just mercy that such insights are manifest to the devotee. One day, I just got the idea that I should go to Bombay. It was such a mystery, and then suddenly one day, I got the answer that I should go to Bombay because Bombay was the head office of ISKCON, and I had been the most successful in making life members and cultivating big people.

So, I wrote Srila Prabhupada a letter that I think I should come to Bombay, because we are making so many life members, but if we don’t take care of them, they will be disappointed with us. And not only will they be disappointed, but they will speak against us. And on the other hand, if we take good care of the members, they will speak favorably about us, and they themselves will help us make more new members, and we’ll have no difficulty making life members. And Srila Prabhupada considered the life membership program very important because he wanted us to approach the leading people of India, and especially then, only the leading people could afford to become life members, and he also wanted to develop his projects in India and print books.

So, Srila Prabhupada’s policy was 50 percent of the membership income for the book fund, and the 50 percent for the building fund. And thus, Srila Prabhupada would be able to do both; building temples and printing books. So, it was a very important program to Srila Prabhupada. So, I said, “Bombay is the head office, and I think I can come to Bombay and become the membership secretary and make sure that life members are properly cared for.” So, I wrote to Srila Prabhupada, and he immediately ceased the proposal and wrote back, “Yes, come to Bombay immediately.”

So, it is very interesting. Then, all the devotees started to say that I shouldn’t go to Bombay, I should stay in Calcutta. And I went. Then in Bombay, [Unintelligible 00:27:54] and he personally took me on a tour of Bombay. He was pointing out the palm trees and how beautiful the place was. And then he said, “One day, this property would be worth one crore of rupees.” Of course, now it is probably worth fifty crores, even more. Anyway, everything was very nice, until one day, Srila Prabhupada told Ramananda Swami. . . Ramananda Swami was the temple president. Anyway, Srila Prabhupada wanted me to be the project director. So, one day, Srila Prabhupada told Ramananda, “There is trouble in East Africa, and you have to go back.”

So then, the question was who would be the temple president? So, we were all in the room, and I guess some of the devotees were sort of eager, but one of the devotees, namely myself, was not very interested. I thought, Prabhupada would figure out someone. And suddenly, Srila Prabhupada said, “What about Giriraj?” So, I was really shocked and I did not think that I could take up the responsibility. So, I was actually in a lot of anxiety. But again, the same principle, the order of the spiritual master, I knew the disciple had to follow the order of the spiritual master.

So, Srila Prabhupada said, “What do you think?” to me. So, I did not know what to say, I just said, “Well, whatever you think is best.” So, that was it, it was decided. And then, I don’t know if it was the same meeting or the next meeting, but at the end, the thing that really put me in anxiety was the thought of all the responsibility, and the thought that I wouldn’t really be able to manage it. So then, at the very end, Srila Prabhupada looked at me, glanced at me, and said, “So, now the whole responsibility is on you.” And he started to laugh. And I was thinking, I mean, it was my mind, I knew it was my mind, but my mind was thinking, How could Srila Prabhupada be so insensitive? Doesn’t he know how I am feeling? And he was saying, “Now the full responsibility is on you,” and he started to laugh.

Anyway, Srila Prabhupada’s plans were very mysterious. Although sometimes he revealed part of his plan. And sometimes, he revealed more of his plan. But we actually did not know how deep Srila Prabhupada’s plans were, because everything was so successful when Srila Prabhupada was here, we sort of took it for granted that the success would just continue. And some of us got the first glimpse that the success would not come so easily in Srila Prabhupada’s absence, just about a week after he left.

After we had the Viraha Mahotsav, or the festival of separation in Vrindavan, some of the devotees who were in Vrindavan serving Srila Prabhupada, wanted to go to Mayapur to have a festival there and put the sacred articles in the earth for the puṣpa-samādhi. So, two of the biggest leaders were Tamal Krishna Goswami and Bhavananda Goswami. So, they had arranged a taxi. We were going to leave Vrindavan at about one in the morning in order to catch the early morning flight to Calcutta.

And we thought it was an easy thing, just to get a taxi and go, but everything went wrong. We just couldn’t get it together. Something was missing, someone could not find something, and somebody went away and we couldn’t find him, and it was just going on and on and on. And we could not get out. We started to think we would miss the flight. And then, Bhavananada said quite profoundly, “When Srila Prabhupada was here, things were very easy, things were so easy that we thought, or maybe Srila Prabhupada himself sort of created the illusion that actually, we were doing everything, or at least we were doing many things.” But Bhavananda Prabhu said, “Actually, we were not the ones who were doing it. It was actually Srila Prabhupada who was doing it.”

And in the years that followed, we became increasingly aware of the fact that Srila Prabhupada’s plans were very deep, and if we tried to speculate and make changes, we could run into serious difficulties. Srila Prabhupada has always stressed book distribution, and he said that book distribution is saṅkīrtana, because it is glorification of Krishna.

But after Srila Prabhupada left, some of the leaders discovered that they could make more money quicker by selling candles, or by selling paintings. So, they started to replace book distribution with candle sales and painting sales, and that became saṅkīrtana. But although lots of money came in very quickly and initially, people thought, Wow, this is a new breakthrough, gradually, the bad effects of the deviation became manifest and devotees became weak, they developed a fruitive mentality. They began thinking, Well, instead of selling paintings for Krishna, why not sell paintings for myself?

And initially, the leaders used the money to buy big properties, motor vehicles, everyone was living very nicely. Gradually, things started to go wrong, and in many cases, they lost the properties that they had acquired with the money they had earned from the business, lost many of the vehicles, lost many of the devotees. And then finally, it became a crisis and we realized that we had deviated.

So, Srila Prabhupada was like Pṛthu Maharaja in the sense that everything he did was successful, but how he made it successful was not so easy to understand. But Srila Prabhupada himself gives the hint in the purport that Pṛthu Maharaja’s plans were successful because he was a reservoir of good qualities. And similarly, Srila Prabhupada, being a pure devotee, was also a reservoir of good qualities. Therefore, having all good qualities, he was successful. And one cannot imitate a personality like Srila Prabhupada without having the qualification. And who has the qualification? No one in the history of the world is empowered like Srila Prabhupada. Probably no one in the future will be either.

So, we should not try to imitate a great soul like Srila Prabhupada, but we should try to follow his instructions, strictly follow his instructions, and try to follow in his footsteps. Not imitate, but follow in his footsteps by struggling hard to practice Krishna consciousness nicely and to preach. So, although Srila Prabhupada was the most exalted empowered representative of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, fully absorbed in Krishna consciousness, he was also very practical.

And once, when I visited Los Angeles, I met [Unintelligible 00:38:40] Prabhu, who is the BBT secretary. And [Unintelligible 00:38:45] Prabhu was really an expert manager, and he told me that Srila Prabhupada had told him, “Don’t let the devotees know how much money is in the BBT. Otherwise, they will be after it.” So, I thought, This is a peculiar instruction of Srila Prabhupada. But later, I came across the same verse in the purport, as happened with so many of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, even if they seemed very different or very heavy, later, I came across the same instruction in the scripture.

And this is also Srila Prabhupada’s greatness, that he simply repeated what was in the scripture. He never manufactured anything new. But at the same time, he presented it in such a natural way that one could think that Srila Prabhupada was just speaking as an individual person and giving some practical advice. “Don’t let people know how much money you have.”

So [Unintelligible 00:40:15] Prabhu, perhaps has understood this important instruction. Therefore, he is successful. So, I think we can end now. Are there any questions? Would you like to add anything?

Hare Krishna, now if you have questions, the two of us or more can answer.

Well, he went into the water to take a bath. He wasn’t really deep in the water, he just went into the water to take a bath, and then he was arrested and brought into custody and he was kept there. So, you are saying that ordinarily, if someone is under the water, he will drown, so how did Nanda Maharaja stay under the water?

Well, in the case of Varuna and his assistants, they had the power to stay under water, and because they had the power, they would have had the power to give Nanda Maharaja the power. I don’t really know the process, and there are many things in the Puranas which seem to be difficult to adjust according to modern ideas of time and space. And Srila Prabhupada has emphatically made the point that we have to accept the scriptures as they are. If we try to find contradictions, I mean, there may be so many contradictions, but if we try to find contradictions and challenge the authority of the scriptures, then we will never be able to make any progress.

The population of Dvaraka. So, if we add up the numbers of the people, if we calculate it, how could so many people live there? So, we see a contradiction. But we have to understand the scriptures in the mood of submission, not in the mood of challenge.

Once, when we were traveling with Srila Prabhupada in India, [Unintelligible 00:43:31] Prabhu asked Srila Prabhupada, “Sometimes we read that all the planetary systems are contained in the stem of the lotus from the navel of Vishnu. But then again, we also read that Lord Brahma took birth from the lotus flower at the end of the stem of the lotus, and he created the planetary system and space. So, the two descriptions seem to be contradictory. How can we understand?”

So, Srila Prabhupada replied, “These facts are inconceivable, and we cannot understand them. So, we should not waste our time trying to understand.” Srila Prabhupada said, “Our only business is to love Krishna.” And the same statement that Srila Prabhupada made in such a natural way, I also found later in the scriptures, that we cannot comprehend the inconceivable through mind or intelligence, we have only to love the Absolute Truth, serve the Absolute Truth.

Devotee: So, [Unintelligible 00:45:15] Prabhu actually has two questions. One is sometimes advanced devotee or pure devotee dreams, and that becomes the scripture, or that becomes scriptural evidence or effect. This is the first question. The second question is that in Rāmāyaṇa, we can find that when Sitadevi was stolen by Ravana, Lord Ramachandra was crying. People will automatically question, “Why is the Supreme Personality of Godhead crying?” And our answer is that it’s His līlā. So, how do we convince them?

Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, the answer to the first question will be, you see, for the section beyond the material reality, there are two different levels. One is perception of the spiritual reality, and the perception of the reflection of the material nature. What we generally call a dream is the reflection of our material experience. For example, you know somebody by the name Raghunatha, and you know that Raghunatha is a very beautiful [Unintelligible 00:46:58], and one day, you dream that Raghunatha is distributing a thousand books in one shot. So, this is the reflection of your experience, your material experiences. Normally, that is what the dream is.

But there is another experience that is the experience of spiritual reality. In order to experience that reality, we go beyond this material nature, or beyond the sense perception, beyond material sense perception. And it apparently appears to be like a dream. But [Unintelligible 00:47:43], and the difference between the dream and this perception of spiritual reality is that when one experiences that spiritual reality, his heart fills up with joy, which is inconceivable joy. And that is the indication that this is not just a dream, this is perception of reality.

For example, when Madhavendra Puri went to Krishna-Gopinatha temple. The pūjārī had a dream that Krishna came to him and told him, “There is Madhavendra Puri, who is in the marketplace, you go and give him a pot of kheer.” Now, it is not that he was dreaming. He was perceiving the reflections of his experiences in the material nature. It was real, it was Krishna. He was seeing Krishna, Krishna came to him and told him, but he was in another level of consciousness, not on this level. And what Krishna said was the truth. Krishna said, “There is a pot of kheer, I kept it.” And the pūjārī, because he was a pure devotee, he did not doubt Krishna. He did not say, “Well, it is just a dream,” and turned around and went to sleep again. He woke up, took a bath, went to the temple, and saw that there was a pot of kheer hidden behind Krishna’s form.

So, this is the difference between spiritual experiences and material things. And from the light of spiritual experiences, whatever we are going through in the material nature is a dream, whatever that is happening around us today is a dream. And as we were discussing yesterday, when we wake up from this dream, then we will find that we never actually left the spiritual world, we have always been in the spiritual world. Just as when one goes to sleep and dreams, while he is dreaming, he thinks that he has gone to some other place, but when he wakes up, he finds himself in the same place. Okay, so that is the answer to your first question.

The answer to your second question is why Lord Ramachandra was crying when Sitadevi was lost. [Unintelligible 00:50:33] inconceivable spiritual potency rescue Sitadevi and be happy ever after. The thing is that we have to understand that Lord Ramachandra is the Maryada Puruṣottama. Lord Ramachandra came to establish the principles of law and order. Ramachandra came to establish the principles of abide, the importance of abiding the scriptures. And that’s why He was acting in a certain way, like Lord Ramachandra. So, ultimately, it is all līlā, Ramachandra is doing it just to teach us some lessons. And that’s why Lord Ramachandra is a Maryada Puruṣottama. All right.

And we can therefore see that although He has innumerable consorts, He is married to only one. Although kshatriyas have the right to marry many queens, to have many wives, but in order to establish the principles of law and order or how an ideal king must act, Lord Ramachandra married only one wife. And when that wife was criticized, or somebody expressed some doubt about her purity, her character, or even purity of her body, then Ramachandra banished her. Now, why did He do that? Whatever He did, He did simply to establish a principle that is how a king must behave.

And that is the difference between Lord Ramachandra and Krishnachandra. Lord Ramachandra is apparently crying when Sitadevi was stolen by Ravana, but Krishna, when He is in the middle of the rasa dance with 16.000 gopīs, He just leaves them and goes away. And we don’t find that Krishna is crying. Or another consideration is Ramachandra would not accept more than one wife, whereas Krishna is dancing with 16.000 gopīs, who are somebody else’s wives. That is the difference between Lord Ramachandra’s pastimes and Krishna’s pastimes.

So, therefore, the most important consideration is to understand that Krishna and Ramachandra are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That’s why Prabhupada says, “Don’t jump into Bhāgavatam or the Tenth Canto. First, study Bhagavad-gītā, because by studying Bhagavad-gītā, we can understand who Krishna is.” Because if we jump into Krishna’s intimate pastimes, or Ramachandra’s intimate pastimes without understanding that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we won’t be able to understand. Therefore, when somebody hears or reads that Ramachandra is crying when Sita was stolen by Ravana, he will lose his faith. He will say, “What kind of God He is that He is crying for His wife? I will not cry for my wife, I am better than Ramachandra.”

Therefore, another very important consideration is that the scriptures must be studied under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, otherwise, one will get confused, one will become misled, and one will create a very, very complete damage to his spiritual progress. Therefore, study under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, and there will be skeptics, there will be atheists who will be expressing their doubts or who will not believe, but we should not worry about that. You don’t want to accept it? Fine. But at least I know what is true.

Giriraj Swami: The summary of the Rāmāyaṇa is told in the Ninth Canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. There is one verse that describes how Lord Ramachandra wandered through the forest, grieving the separation of Sitadevi. And right in the verse itself, Śukadeva Gosvami says, “Thus, Lord Ramachandra demonstrated the misery that is experienced by a man who is attached to a woman.” So, in the purport, Srila Prabhupada explains that on one level, Lord Ramachandra is demonstrating how a man suffers when he becomes attached to a woman, but then, Srila Prabhupada explains that’s from the material point of view. From the spiritual point of view, Lord Ramachandra was exhibiting separation on the transcendental platform [Unintelligible 00:56:54], and that appears as suffering.