SPL – One Should Not Oppose Krishna’s Pure Devotee

Giriraj Swami:

[Reading from Śrīla Prabhupāda Līlāmṛta, Volume 5, Chapter 5]

By Prabhupada’s disciples’ cancellation of the agreement, ISKCON’s legal position had been weakened. But Prabhupada had faith that if the devotees just maintained possession of the land, their position would remain strong. At the same time, he urged the devotees to preach more. They should not think that without a temple they could not preach, so he arranged for another big Bombay pandal festival downtown, which proved to be a great success, with twenty thousand attending nightly.

Important guests like Mr. R.K. Ganatra, the mayor of Bombay, made introductory speeches, and the devotees also took an active part, organizing, advertising, cooking and distributing prasādam, distributing Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books, and preaching at a question-and-answer booth. The paṇḍāl festival served to lift the devotees out of the doldrums of their protracted legal fight and the austerity of their living at Juhu.

During the last week of January 1973, Prabhupāda met with Mr. N. at the residence of Mr. Mahadevia. Although Prabhupāda’s lawyers had filed a criminal case against Mr. N., Prabhupāda wanted to attempt an out-of-court settlement. He had always been gracious and charming with Mr. N., and Mr. N. had always appeared responsive and polite. But this time was different. Gone were the smiles and friendly words. The two were remaining barely civil to each other. After a few minutes, Prabhupāda asked his disciples to leave the room.

Speaking in Hindi, Mr. N. began accusing Prabhupāda and the devotees of being connected with the CIA. “I will come on Monday,” said Mr. N. tersely, “with a check for two lakhs to pay back your down payment.”

COMMENT

Because originally, Srila Prabhupada had paid two lakhs to get the conveyance, but Mr. Nair never gave that conveyance. So Srila Prabhupada always kept to the same position, either return the money or give us the land. So Mr. Nair was neither giving back the money nor giving the land. So at the beginning of the meeting, we can imagine that Srila Prabhupada repeated the same statement to Mr. N. that either give us the money back or give us the land. So Mr. Nair said, “I will come Monday and return the money.”

READING continued

“All right,” Prabhupāda replied. “But if you don’t want to part with your land, then we will leave. But think before you do this.”

Mr. N. continued his accusations. “You people are calling yourselves the owners of the land, but you are just a big disturbance to the whole area, getting up at four and all this…”

“We do not claim to be the owner,” Prabhupāda replied. “Kṛṣṇa is the real owner. I am not the real owner. Kṛṣṇa is already there on His land. Why are you bothering us so much? Simply take the money and give us the land. Or, if you want us to vacate, then prepare the check.” Prabhupāda had been speaking with restraint, but now his tone became angry. “Bring out your check, and we will vacate tomorrow morning. No, we will vacate tonight! Give us our money back. Have you the money?

COMMENT

Actually, Srila Prabhupada doubted that Mr. Nair had the money or that he would ever really be able to pay us back.

READING continued

Mr. N. shouted, “I will remove the Deities myself! I will break the temple and remove the Deities!” Mr. N. then stormed out of the room.That week Mr. N. was hospitalized after a severe heart attack. Two weeks later he died.

COMMENT

Actually, one day, I was preaching in the city, and I came to an intersection where the light was red. So in India, there are many vendors that sit on the footpath and sell newspapers and magazines. So while I was waiting at the corner, I just happened to look down at the newspapers that were for sale on the footpath, and there was a big picture of Mr. Nair on the front page and a big banner headline in bold black letters, A.B. Nair is Dead. So I was very surprised. [laughter] Actually, I felt very jubilant. [laughter] I actually felt like dancing on the footpath. But then, I checked myself. I thought, We are trying to be devotees. Should we really feel happy upon the death of someone? But within my heart, I actually felt great joy and was practically dancing on the street. But still, some doubt remained.

A few days later, one of our life member friends received a letter from Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada wrote that, “Today we have received news that the demon, Mr. Nair is dead. If it is true, it is very good news.” [laughter] Then Srila Prabhupada quoted one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, from the prayers of Prahlada Maharaja to Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva; modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā, that even a saintly person becomes pleased when a snake or a scorpion is killed. In other words, Prahlada, who is the most saintly of all persons said that even saintly persons take pleasure when a snake or a scorpion is killed. Because after Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed by Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva was very angry, and nobody could pacify Him; everyone was afraid of Him. So among so many exalted personalities like Brahma, Shiva, and Lakshmi, the Goddess of Fortune, Prahlada was asked to go forward to pacify the Lord, although he was only five-years-old and born in a family of demons. Still, he was the one who was chosen to pacify the Lord. So Prahlada may have asked Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva that, “Now the demon is killed, you should give up your anger while you are still angry.” And Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva may have replied, “Yes, I have killed the demon, but you and the members of the family and others may not be pleased with Me, because I have killed your father.” In reply, Prahlada Maharaja stated that even a saintly person takes pleasure when a snake or a scorpion is killed. In other words, he told Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva that, “Do not think that we are sorry or we are angry with Your action. We are pleased by Your action, so please do not be angry.”

Actually, when I returned to the place where we were staying, I shared the news with the devotees that Mr. Nair was dead. So, one of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples there, he was just visiting, but he was a senior devotee named Bali Mardan. He phoned Srila Prabhupada in Australia to give him the news. So actually, Srila Prabhupada’s servant gave Srila Prabhupada the news, and later, the servant told us what happened. When Srila Prabhupada heard the news, he folded his hands and said, “Thank you.” He told the disciple that Mr. Nair was causing too much trouble to the devotees, “So I prayed to Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva,” and then Srila Prabhupada quoted the verse.

So, yesterday we were discussing how sometimes Srila Prabhupada became angry, and ignorant or sentimental fools criticized Srila Prabhupada because he became angry. They could not understand that Srila Prabhupada’s anger was transcendental, engaged in the service of the Lord. So after the Delhi pandal, one young man from Europe or America came to meet Srila Prabhupada. The young man began to praise Srila Prabhupada and the movement, saying that if Krishna consciousness spreads people will give up all of their anger and simply love one another. Srila Prabhupada replied, “Anger? Has someone told you there is something wrong with anger? What is wrong with anger?” Then Srila Prabhupada explained that Krishna spoke the entire Bhagavad-gītā just to make Arjuna angry. [laughter] Krishna wanted Arjuna to fight and kill. No one can fight and kill unless he is angry. So Krishna spoke the entire Bhagavad-gītā just to make Arjuna angry. So why do you suggest that there is something wrong with anger?” and then, Srila Prabhupada explained the philosophy, that nothing is good or bad. The same thing when used in the service of the Lord becomes good, and the same thing outside the service of the Lord is bad. Actually, everything in the material world is bad, but when something is used in the service of the Lord it becomes good. So anger, like everything else, comes from God. We just heard how angry Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva became. So everything comes from the Lord originally, and everything is meant to be used in the Lord’s service, and the same thing when used in the Lord’s service becomes spiritual. Otherwise, it is material. So, here we read how Srila Prabhupada was angry with Mr. Nair, and he actually prayed to Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva. Still such activities of the pure devotee are very confidential, and we should not discuss such activities with persons who are not devotees who are able to understand.

When Srila Prabhupada was a young man, he went to visit his guru maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura at Mayapur. His guru maharaja was chanting japa on his balcony, and meanwhile the disciples had discovered a snake in the garden. So they looked to Guru Maharaja, “What should we do about the snake?” And Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura ordered, “Kill it.” So Srila Prabhupada describes that he was surprised that, “Oh, Guru Maharaja ordered the disciples to kill the snake.” And Srila Prabhupada describes that the question remained in his mind until he came across the verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā, that even a saintly person is pleased with a snake or a scorpion is killed. Then, he understood that what Guru Maharaja did was correct, and approved by the shastra.

READING continued

Mrs. N., although not as legally astute as her late husband, carried on the fight, and her lawyers, eager to collect their fees, pursued even more intently than she the litigation to drive out ISKCON.

COMMENT

Actually, Mrs. Nair was now a widow, and she had no son. So, so many greedy persons started to hover around her, giving her bad advice and somehow trying to get her money. So her so-called friends and relatives were encouraging her, and more than anyone else, maybe, her lawyers were encouraging her that, “You should fight against ISKCON.” So naturally, if there is a legal battle there will be legal fees, and no one will gain except the lawyers. And Mrs. Nair was alone now, and subject to the influence of the lawyers and other so-called friends and relatives.

READING continued

In April 1973, at ISKCON’s instigation, ISKCON’s case came before the High Court. There were tactical delays, however, and month after month passed with no decision.

Prabhupāda did not commit himself to construction on the land, because he had no deed and no assurance of one. He toured the West, returned to India, but still nothing had happened to resolve the matter. Life in ISKCON Bombay was peaceful, but progress remained stunted, the outcome uncertain.

Then one day, without warning, Mrs. N. launched a violent attack. On the morning of June 1, while the devotees were attending their routine duties, a truck drove onto the Juhu property. A demolition squad had come to dismantle the temple. Somehow Mrs. N. had influenced the city government to authorize demolition of the temple, a modest structure of brick and steel-reinforced concrete. When Girirāja attempted to show the officer in charge a letter establishing ISKCON’s rights, the man ignored the letter and signaled for the demolition to begin. Soon more trucks arrived, until nearly one hundred demolitionists, working with blowtorches and sledgehammers, swarmed over the property.

COMMENT

Actually, I was the temple president at Juhu, then. I happened to be walking on the land when I saw the truck enter, and the demolition squad, with their various utensils, came out of the truck. So I approached the leader of the group, and I said, “What are you doing?” So he said, “You have no permission to keep this structure. We have come to demolish it.” I said, “We do have permission. I personally met the municipal commissioner and got permission. I can show you the letter.” So I got the file with the letter and showed him, but he was not interested. Actually, in India, there is a lot of corruption, and later people told us that with the money Mrs. Nair got from the insurance when her husband died she had paid the municipal workers and the police. So the municipal officer had no interest in our documents, and he ordered the workers to begin. So I was dismayed. So I immediately rush forward to stop the workers from attacking the temple. So meanwhile, the police who were brought to protect the demolition operation began to catch us and put us in the police wagon. So one by one, as the devotees rushed forward to stop the demolition workers, they were taken by the police and put in the wagon. And one lady, especially, one lady devotee was very heroic. She was the Deities pujari, so she stood in front of the doors to the Deity room with her arms outstretched and said, “No one can come here.” But the police were so cruel, they actually grabbed her by the hair and dragged her away. So the police wagon took us to the police station and we were just waiting there knowing that the temple was being demolished.

READING continued

The demolitionists mounted ladders and began breaking the roof of the temple hall with sledgehammers. Others used torches to cut through the steel supports. The plan of the demolition squad was to knock out the steel supports of the kīrtana hall and proceed methodically toward the Deity house, wherein Rādhā-Rāsavihārī stood. The devotees tried to stop the demolition, but policemen, working in pairs, would grab the dissenters by the legs and arms and carry them away. Police dragged the women away by the hair, while tenants on the land looked on. Some were glad to see the demolition, although others were sympathetic. Out of fear of the police, however, no one moved to help the devotees.

COMMENT

Almost all of the devotees were dragged away by the police, but one Indian devotee, named Manisvi dasa, did not rush forward to stop the demolition workers. He remained in the bushes looking at what was happening. Then, he ran to the telephone of a neighbor (because the devotees had no telephone, then), and he phoned Bal Thackeray, who was the leader of one Hindu oriented political party in Bombay, named Sivasena. Then, Bal Thackeray phoned the municipal commissioner that, ”What are you doing? You are breaking a Hindu temple.” Then, the commissioner who had actually given the permission some days earlier said that the temple is unauthorized. Then, Bal Thakura said, “Don’t forget who owns this city.”

Anyway, the municipal commissioner phoned the local ward officer and told him to stop the demolition. So immediately the ward officer sent a messenger to Hare Krishna Land to order the work to stop. And the man arrived just as the workers were breaking the first pieces out of the roof on top of the Deities. In the meantime, we were in the jail, and eventually some life members’ friends came and got us released. And when we came to the Land, we were shocked to see the temple in ruins, but we saw that the Deity room was almost untouched. And just over the door in front of the Deities was a picture of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva.

[Break in audio]

READING continued

Prabhupāda was in Calcutta at the time of the attack, and when the devotees reached him by phone, he told them to organize the local ISKCON sympathizers and life members and protest the attack by mass publicity. They should also expose the persons responsible. This would be very effective against Mrs. N. and her party.

Prabhupāda mentioned various life members he thought would help. Mr. Sada Jiwatlal, head of the Visva Hindu Parishad, should help with publicity, since his organization was a defender of Hindu dharma and was meant for handling such cases. Mr. Sethi should help in preventing further violence. This episode, Prabhupāda said, had been part of Kṛṣṇa’s plan; the devotees should not be afraid.

COMMENT

So actually, although the attack seemed to be a great blow to the devotees, after the initial stage when the public actually began to understand what happened, the public sentiment turned in our favor, and eventually, we reconstructed the small temple and got Mrs. Nair to hand over the deed to the land. Of course, there were so many more incidents, but we shall have to continue some other time.

Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Are there any questions or comments?

Oh yes, there was one more incident I did not mention. When the demolition workers were demolishing the temple, Mr. Mhatre and some of the demonic neighbors were standing together on the corner across the street laughing. They were enjoying the fun.

So originally, the municipal workers came only with sledgehammers and chisels and such things, but when they tried to break the steel tubes that supported the roof, they could not break the columns with the hammers and chisels, so they had to go and bring blow torches to cut through the steel. So, one of our only friends in the whole area was the mother of one of our devotees, and when she heard about the demolition, she came running to the site. Meanwhile, the demolition workers were starting to burn through the steel tubes with the blow torch, and one of the demons who lived across the street was laughing. So the devotee, Gandhiva’s mother, cursed the man, because she also had some mystic power, so she cursed the man that, “You are laughing because Krishna’s temple is being burned, but one day, you will burn.

A couple of weeks later, when we were observing maṅgala-āratiin the broken temple, we heard screams coming from across the street; horrible shrieks were coming from the ladies across the street. Then, an ambulance pulled up into the driveway of the house across the street, but it was too late. The man had already died. The man who laughed when the temple was being burnt had put kerosene all over his body and set fire to himself, and he gave up his body in the flames.

Devotee: [Inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: Why did he commit suicide?

Devotee: [Inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: Well obviously, he was tormented, so he thought that if he gives up his life, at least he will not suffer so much. There was another enemy who also died suddenly. Of course, he came into the story later, but he was a member of the legislative assembly, and he was also a life member of ISKCON.

So, Mr. Mhatre, who was Mr. Nair’s friend and who was the local municipal corporator, he was always against us. So he started to make an agitation that the life members should take over the management of ISKCON, because a member of the legislative assembly was also a life member and a friend of Mr. Mhatre. So Mr. Mhatre was instigating him to lead the campaign that the life members should take over ISKCON. So one day, the same person, MLA, fell down dead on the sidewalk in front of the government house. Nobody could understand why he suddenly died.

So, one should not oppose Krishna’s pure devotee. In fact, in the description of the glories of Haridasa Thakura, his potency is described in two ways. His potency was shown in his ability to convert the prostitute into a devotee, and his potency was also shown in how the demons who were envious of him suffered. So Srila Prabhupada’s potency was also shown in both ways: how he reclaimed the fallen souls, and how the demons who opposed him were killed by the Lord, Himself.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande! Hari Haribol!

Devotee: [Inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: The demolition or the holy site?

Devotee: The holy site.

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are actually two parts to the problem. The first problem was to get [Inaudible]. . .Then the next trouble was to get permission to build the temple, but even after we got the land, the enemies wouldn’t stop fighting. They fought to keep us from getting permission to build, and even after we got the permission to build,  they got the permission canceled. So it was a very big fight. In one sense the fight is still going on, but in a major sense, it continued up until 1979, because after Srila Prabhupada left, they intensified their attack. And you might have heard that when Srila Prabhupada was in Vrindavan, one gentleman inquired—when Srila Prabhupada was very sick in 1977—one gentleman inquired, “What will happen to your properties after you leave?”

So after the man left the room, Srila Prabhupada said to Tamal Krishna Goswami, “Did you hear what he asked?” and Srila Prabhupada said, “That means that people are thinking how to grab our properties after we leave.” And then, Srila Prabhupada said, “We should be careful of three parties after he leaves. We should be careful of his god brothers in Navadvipa, we should be careful of the cast Gosvamis in Vrindavan, and we should be careful of the municipal corporation in Bombay.” And actually, the same municipal corporator who had been friends with Mr. Nair led the attack against us after Srila Prabhupada left. And the headline actually came in one weekly newspaper, just as Srila Prabhupada predicted, they would try to capture the properties. That something like: Appeal to Government to Take Over ISKCON Temple in Juhu. They were actually trying to get the government to take over the temple.

Devotee: And you said that, in one sense, it was going on, no? In what sense?

Giriraj Swami: Just in little waves; in little waves. It may be like that the fan is turning, but the plug is pulled, because this Mr. Mhatre, who was the local municipal corporator. . .

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:04:43]

Giriraj Swami: But, he was just defeated in the last election, so now maybe some of his evil deeds will be reversed. But he had the municipal corporation file a case against us saying that our access road was actually a public road. He actually brought up the same argument when Srila Prabhupada was present, and he wanted to make a public road right through our property. Srila Prabhupada said they just want to destroy the property. So there was actually a big court case a little after Srila Prabhupada left, and we won. And it was a big fight, and we won.

But Mr. Mhatre was so unscrupulous, even though they had no real case, he filed an appeal against us, and now the appeal has come up. Just a few weeks ago, before I left India, the appeal has come up. And in the case against us, the municipal corporation has so many documents that they stole from our files. But it doesn’t really matter, because the road is our private property. They can’t make the road public. But just to show what type of people they are, they had someone steal our files from us and all of our confidential papers appeared in their case against us. But now we will see, because now the municipal corporator who was making all the trouble was defeated in the last election, and so maybe the new administration will just withdraw the case or let the case be dismissed by lack of participation.

But soon after he led the attack to get the government to take over the temple, he was publicly disgraced. His wife left him because he was having an affair with another woman, and he was just completely corrupt. So many of the local residents were protesting against him. So they took out a procession down Juhu Road, which runs right in front of the temple property, in protest against Mr. Mhatre. And at the time, Tamal Krishna Goswami and I were together in the room—because so many people died, but he didn’t die. So when there was this big public procession against him, we could hear people shouting slogans against him and carrying signs. So Tamal Krishna Goswami commented that, “For one who has been honored, dishonor is worse than death.” [laughter] So even though he didn’t die, he was completely dishonored. Dishonor is worse than death.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada mentioned about being careful about these three parties. Is there anything about his children and their part in trying to take away the property?

Giriraj Swami: No. But we have information, because Prabhupada said we should be careful of his godbrothers in Mayapur, so we have information that his godbrothers in Mayapur were actually the ones that encouraged his son and financed his son to claim the properties.

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:09:24]

Giriraj Swami: It is still going on. We made the settlement; we made the settlement. We even paid some money, but since years we are not actually able to get our money free because the file is missing. This is one of the tactics they use in India. They pay someone in the office, and suddenly the file disappears. No one can find it for years.

Now, we made an application, and they made a duplicate file.

Devotee: What is the contents of the file?

Devotee: In what office was it-

Giriraj Swami: The courthouse. The courthouse.

Devotee: Wow. Es como el espediente [Inaudible 01:10:29].

Devotee: And the process?

Giriraj Swami: They look for the file, you go, you ask for the file. We want to take the judgment to the bank to get the money, they can’t find the file. [laughter] Yes. Yes. India. I don’t know now, but at least when we first went to India, Srila Prabhupada said that the politicians in India are the most corrupt in the world. There is a lot of corrupt politicians, but the politicians in India are the most corrupt. Anyway, now there is some technical point. There is some technical point. Yes, I think if we can clear the technical point, hopefully, we will be able to get the money.

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:11:28]

Giriraj Swami: No. It is just that monies that Srila Prabhupada had in the bank, the accounts were frozen because Srila Prabhupada’s former son wrote the banks and said that this is my father’s money, I am his son, I am the rightful heir to the money, and if you give the money to ISKCON, you are giving them my money, and you will have to pay me back. So then, the banks froze the accounts, and said no one can touch the money until the court decides. So now it is decided, it is more or less decided, but there is some technical problem that we have to overcome to actually get the judgment to show the banks, “the case is withdrawn and you can release the money.”

Devotee: And what about in Vrindavan? Any problem with the cast Gosvamis?

Giriraj Swami: No. Vrindavan, in Mayapur there was problem. There was some shooting, and there are also, maybe there was some agitation against ISKCON, to put the blame on ISKCON. But Vrindavan really didn’t get any trouble from the cast Gosvamis at the time then, but we have gotten trouble from the guṇḍās. You know the guṇḍās? They encroached on some of our vacant land. They come in the middle of the night with guns and they put up a boundary wall within our property. They claim that the area within the boundary wall belongs to them. So, half of the adjoining plot to the Krishna-Balarama Temple is out of our control, now, because the guṇḍās put up a wall and everyone’s afraid of the guṇḍās. We could break down the wall; they could do anything. They could come with knives and guns, and I guess the devotees aren’t ready for that.

Devotee: Someone told me that people from [Inaudible 01:14:17] they have connection with the guṇḍās.

Giriraj Swami: Maybe. I don’t know if it is true, but it would be like the Catholic Church having some connection with the mafia. I don’t know if the Catholic Church does or not, but it is possible that some of the temples in Vrindavan have relations with the guṇḍās. But there was one devotee - the guṇḍās have their own organization. There is top and next level and the next level and next level. . . They have their whole hierarchy. So the right hand man of the number two guṇḍā shot one of the devotees outside the temple about two years ago during holy time. That during holy time they throw colors—supposed to be fun, but people can become quite aggressive. So one of our devotees told some of the people in front of the temple that don’t make such a disturbance. Let the people come to the temple.

So, I don’t know what happened. That was the end of the discussion. And then, the devotee was living behind the temple. He went back to his room, but after some time he wanted to go back to the temple. So as he was walking down the street, the parikramā path towards the temple, the person that he had the little encounter with in front of the temple pulled out a gun and shot him. I mean, he was in very serious condition. Fortunately, Govinda Maharaja was there, so he put the body in the taxi, anyway, between Govinda Maharaja and Ganapati, they took him to the hospital and somehow he survived. Now, the person who shot him was the right hand man of the number two man of the guṇḍās organization.

So one month ago, just about two days before I visited Vrindavan after I left here, because there are different gangs of guṇḍās, so, across the street from the temple there is Bihari Lal’s Nimbu Pani shop. So four of the guṇḍās were sitting at a table there, and at about 10:00 o’clock in the morning in broad daylight, a car stops in front of the table, two men come out of the car with machine guns, and they kill four of the guṇḍās that were sitting at the table. They get back in the car and they drive away.

Devotee: In Vrindavan?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:18:05]

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: [Inaudible continues talking]

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: [Inaudible continues talking]

Giriraj Swami: There was blood all over the street, all the shops were closed for the whole day, the temple was closed, and one of the people that was killed—I mean, I am not saying it was related, but one of the people that was killed was the one who shot the devotee, Rupa Raghunatha. And they were actually looking for the number two man, but he wasn’t there. But they got his right hand man, they got his right hand man’s right hand man and two others. So the guṇḍās are, I mean, I don’t know if they have anything to do with the Gosvamis, but the guṇḍās—and I don’t know which group of guṇḍās, either, but they have encroached on some of our property; in the middle of the night, they put up their own wall, and-

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:19:13]? Just do it, and ?  

Giriraj Swami: No, they say—everyone says something—so they say that actually the man who sold us the land wasn’t the real owner of all of it. That part of it was under dispute, and actually belonged to them. They are just putting up the wall around their part which didn’t belong to the man who sold it to us.

Devotee: Why can’t they take them to court?

Giriraj Swami: Well, it can go to court, but the Indian legal system takes years. [laughter] It takes years, and if you have money. . .But yes, we have to go to court. I mean, we could probably even use other means, if we wanted to, but it would mean fighting with the guṇḍās. I don’t think the temple wants to fight with the guṇḍās.

Devotee: Who are the guṇḍās?

Giriraj Swami: It means-

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: Mafia?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. No, Indian mafia.

The guṇḍās deal in properties. Guṇḍās deal in properties.

Devotee: Guṇḍās ,  servant of the gun. [laughter]

Devotee: You are pretty funny.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, some of them are vrajavāsīs.

[break in audio]

Devotee: [inaudible 01:21:16]

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Yes.

Devotee: [Inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: If you commit offenses in Vrindavan, you become worse than ordinary people.

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:21:30] [crosstalk]

Giriraj Swami: Why do they do it in the suburbs? Because they get beated up? [laughter]

Devotee: I think that was another time [Inaudible][crosstalk]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, it is possible because a little after Prabhupada left, there was a murder committed at Hare Krishna Land. That was the occasion for asking the government to take over the temple. They accused us of killing someone, but it was a real hot summer night and the electricity failed in the back of the property, and some of the tenants were just really in a mood to fight. But that is another story. [chuckles]

Devotee: [Inaudible][crosstalk]

Giriraj Swami: Oh, did the man know that the woman cursed him? Well, she told him that, I suggested you are laughing now to see Krishna’s temple burning, one day you will also burn. She told him that. Actually, the man used to deal in black magic. The man was sort of a spiritual leader, but not spiritual. But for people in the mode of darkness, he was spiritual. And he had this big, white frame house. It looked just like a haunted house from a  movies. And he had a big garden in front, right across the street from the temple. And then, the property was shaped like an “L”. And then, the other side, he had these little stone tables and little stone chairs. And at night, he used to call spirits of deceased persons. And I think their relatives would come. They would pay him money, and he would call the spirits of the deceased relatives. And we would walk by the same plot every morning on the way to Juhu Beach with Srila Prabhupada. So when there was some meeting, we would see, in the morning, there were different paraphernalia, some things, candles burning or burnt. So I mean, it is possible, because they say that if you send a ghost against someone, and the ghost is not successful, then the ghost comes back to you. So it is possible he might have sent some ghost against someone, and then the ghost came back and tortured him, then he committed suicide.

India is a fantastic place. The greatest devotees and the greatest demons have taken birth in India, Srila Prabhupada said. And at the end, when the document was actually signed over, so Srila Prabhupada said we should have a feast; invite our friends. And at the end of the feast, when everyone had left, Srila Prabhupada sort of leaned back in his seat, in his room, he said, “It was a good fight.” [loud laughter]

Devotee: [Inaudible] That is perfect.

Giriraj Swami: This is also one mellow, chivalrous. And in Locana dasa Thakura’s book, Caitanya-maṅgala, Lord Chaitanya says that He will send His senapati bhakta. Senapati means commander-in-chief, to spread the holy name all over the world. So devotees are saying that Srila Prabhupada had the mood of senapati, commander-in-chief; general of the army; real fighter.

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:28:16]

Giriraj Swami: Like one morning, this is a funny story. One morning, when we were just walking back from Juhu Beach with Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada said that if we get control of the government we will go house to house with a gun and say either you chant Hare Krishna or we will kill you. [loud laughter]

Devotee: Maybe he meant that? Or he was. . .he confused them?

Giriraj Swami: Well, everything Srila Prabhupada said was absolute, but I maybe had some sentiments, so after Srila Prabhupada said that, he turned to me, and he said, “So Giriraj, what do you think? [laughter] Do you like this idea?” [laughter]

Devotee: What did you say?

Giriraj Swami: I didn’t say anything. Then he turned to the other devotees, and he said, “Our Giriraj is not violent.” [laughter] Actually, there was another time—I mean, these things should not be misunderstood or misapplied – But, there was another time when I was really being conscious to only speak the truth—everything I said I would check myself by speaking the truth, and I was really quite absorbed in this consciousness. So in the meantime, one of the devotees in Juhu, we were still living in the city because the land was in dispute. So one of the devotees at Juhu did some nonsense. I forget the details, but he did some nonsense. So some life member or congregation member came to complain to Srila Prabhupada about the devotee. Srila Prabhupada replied that, “We have thrown him out. Not that we have to keep anybody and everybody who comes to us. We have kicked him out.”

Now, apparently, from the external point of view, the devotee was not kicked out. And I took the lesson from Srila Prabhupada that there are higher considerations than speaking the truth in the mundane sense. And he said, the devotee was thrown out sort of to pacify the life member, but nobody knew that he was kicked out; nobody saw that he was kicked out.

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:31:46]

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada told the life member that the devotee who did the nonsense was thrown out.

Devotee: [Inaudible 01:32:01]

Giriraj Swami: But these are actually very confidential pastimes, because people could take it in the wrong way and either find fault with Srila Prabhupada, or find justification for speaking lies. But I am just saying that there is an expression, all is fair in love and war. You have not heard it.