KB 2 – You Cannot Enjoy the Energy of the Lord without the Lord

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. So, we are gathered here to celebrate the Appearance Day of Lord Balarama. As stated in the Vedic literatures, Lord Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead. As stated in Brahma-saṁhitā, just as one candle lights a second candle, the second candle lights a third candle, the third candle lights a fourth candle, and so on, similarly, the Lord expands into different forms. But the original Personality of Godhead is Krishna. He is the original candle, and the first expansion of Krishna is Lord Balarama. In terms of Their pastimes, Krishna and Balarama appear as brothers. Balarama as the older brother and Krishna as the younger brother. The description of the pastimes of Krishna and Balarama is most elaborately described in the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which Srila Prabhupada has presented as the Kṛṣṇa book. Once in Madras, Srila Prabhupada gave a short description of each of his books, and he described the Kṛṣṇa book as Krishna’s pastimes and philosophy so nicely woven together that one does not even realize that he is reading philosophy. So now, we shall read the description from the Kṛṣṇa book of the appearance of Lord Balarama.

As you know, when the Lord appears, He allows certain devotees to play the parts of His mother; His father; His brother; His sister; His relatives; His friends, and Lord Krishna gave the opportunity to Devaki and Vasudeva to play the part of His mother and father. He also gave Nanda Maharaja and Yaśodāmayī the opportunity to play as His father and His mother. But actually, as stated in Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord has no birth; the Lord is eternal. But He appears to take birth to us. Srila Prabhupada gives the example based on the Bhāgavatam, that for the sun, there is no rising or setting. But for us, we see that the sun is rising at a certain point and the sun is setting at a certain point. But for the sun, there is no rising or setting. But from our limited point of view, we see that the sun is rising at six in the morning and the sun is setting at six in the evening. So similarly, for Krishna and Balarama, there is no birth. But to us, They appear to take birth, They appear to perform pastimes for a certain number of years, and They appear to disappear. But actually, They always exist. And if we misunderstand and think that Krishna takes birth like an ordinary human being or Balarama takes the birth like an ordinary human being, we will make a very gross mistake, because Krishna and Balarama are the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the first expansion of Godhead, and They are never born. Still, for the sake of pastimes, They choose a mother and father and appear to take birth from them. Just like Lord Varaha appears to take birth from the nostril of Brahma. Actually, He doesn’t take birth at all, and certainly not from the nostril of Brahma. But for His pastime, He appears to come out from the nostril of Brahma. So similarly, Krishna and Balarama, for the sake of pastimes, appear to take birth.

So you probably know the history, how on the occasion of the marriage of Vasudeva and Devaki, Kaṁsa, who was the brother of Devaki, was driving the chariot, and he heard a voice from the sky. And the voice said, “Kaṁsa, you are a fool. You are driving your sister, Devaki, and your brother-in-law, Vasudeva, but you do not know that the eighth son of Devaki will kill you.” From the moment that Kaṁsa heard the prophecy, he was afraid of the eighth son of Devaki, who is to be Lord Krishna. He decided to kill Devaki. He decided to kill his own sister. We may feel shocked that how could he be so abominable to want to kill his own sister? But materialistic persons, greedy persons, can kill anyone for their sense gratification. And even in the history of India, we have incidents of Aurangzeb. He imprisoned his own father just so that he could become the emperor. He imprisoned his own brother, maybe even killed his own brother, just to fulfill his political ambition. So Kaṁsa was also a similar type of person, and he was ready to kill his own sister. But Vasudeva intervened, and he said, “Kaṁsa, Devaki is your sister. She is not going to kill you. You have nothing to fear from her. And if you kill her, especially on the auspicious day of her marriage, you will incur great sinful reactions and fall into ill repute. So, you have nothing to fear from Devaki. Her son is to kill you. So please spare her life, and as she gives birth, I will bring her children to you one by one, and you can kill them.” So Kaṁsa agreed to the proposal of Vasudeva, and true to his word, Vasudeva brought his sons to Kaṁsa, one by one, and Kaṁsa killed them; six of them.

So, now we will read from the Kṛṣṇa book.

KṚṢṆA, THE SUPREME PERSONALITY OF GODHEAD, CHAPTER 2

A Summary Study of Śrīla Vyāsadeva’s Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Tenth Canto, by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedānta Swāmī Prabhupāda, Founder Ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness

Chapter 2

When Kaṁsa killed the six babies of Devaki and Vasudeva, one after another, many friends and relatives of Kaṁsa approached him and requested him to discontinue these heinous activities. But all of them became worshipers of Kaṁsa.

COMMENT

Kaṁsa was very powerful, very influential, very diplomatic. So when people came to request him to stop killing Devaki’s children, they became won over to Kaṁsa’s side.

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

When Devakī became pregnant for the seventh time, a plenary expansion of Krishna, known as Ananta, appeared within her womb. Devakī was overwhelmed both with jubilation and lamentation. She was joyful, for she could understand that Lord Viṣṇu had taken shelter within her womb. But at the same time, she was sorry that as soon as her child would come out, Kaṁsa would kill him. At that time, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, being compassionate upon the fearful condition of the Yadus due to atrocities committed by Kaṁsa, ordered the appearance of His Yogamāyā, or His internal potency. Krishna is the Lord of the universe, but He is especially the Lord of the Yadu dynasty.

COMMENT

So in terms of pastimes, Lord Krishna had not taken birth yet, but still, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He was certainly existent. And as always, He was very concerned about the welfare of His devotees and wanted to make some plan for the protection of His devotees. As Lord Krishna, Himself, says in Bhagavad-gītā, kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. “My dear Arjuna, declare it boldly that My devotee will never perish.”

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

This Yogamāyā is the principal potency of the Personality of Godhead. In the Vedas, it is stated that the Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, has multipotencies: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. All the different potencies are acting externally and internally, and Yogamāyā is the chief of all potencies. Lord Krishna ordered the appearance of Yogamāyā in the land of Vrajabhūmi, Vṛndāvana, which is always decorated and full with beautiful cows. In Vṛndāvana, Rohiṇī, one of the wives of Vasudeva, was residing at the house of King Nanda and Queen Yaśodā. Not only Rohiṇī, but many others in the Yadu dynasty were scattered all over the country due to fear of the atrocities of Kaṁsa. Some of them were even living in the caves of the mountains.

COMMENT

So, we see that, sometimes, even devotees are placed in difficult situations. Becoming a devotee of Krishna does not mean that we are immediately freed from the miseries of material existence. As long as we have the material body, as long as we live in the material world, there will be dualities. There will be pleasure and pain; there will be happiness and sorrow; there will be birth and death. But Lord Krishna advises us in Bhagavad-gītā, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata, that we have to tolerate. What can we do? As long as we are in the material world, there will be so many disturbances, but we have to tolerate and go on with the real business of Krishna consciousness. So here, out of fear of the atrocities of Kaṁsa, the members of the Yadu dynasty, who were to become the direct relations of Lord Krishna, they took shelter in different places in fear of Kaṁsa. Some even took shelter in the caves of mountains. One of the wives of Vasudeva, Rohini, took shelter in Vrindavan under the protection of Nanda and Yasoda.

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

The Lord thus informed Yogamāyā, “Under the imprisonment of Kaṁsa are Devakī and Vasudeva, and at the present moment, My plenary expansion, Śeṣa, is within the womb of Devakī.”

COMMENT

So who is the plenary expansion? It is Lord Balarama, who is also known as Śeṣa, and as Ananta, and as Saṅkarṣaṇa. So, He was already residing within the womb of Devaki as her seventh son. But Lord Krishna had some plan. He informs Yoga-māyā. . .

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

“You can arrange the transfer of Śeṣa from the womb of Devakī to the womb of Rohiṇī. After this arrangement, I am personally going to appear in the womb of Devakī with My full potencies. Then, I shall appear as the son of Devakī and Vasudeva, and you shall appear as the daughter of Nanda and Yaśodā in Vṛndāvana.”

COMMENT

So, there are many mysteries regarding the appearance of Lord Krishna and Balarama. The first question that may arise is, how could Yoga-māyā transfer Balarama into the womb of Rohini? Of course, Yoga-māyā is all-powerful, but the question is how could Rohiṇī give birth unless she was pregnant first? So, when we read the Tenth Canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Srila Prabhupada quotes the comments of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains, with reference to Puranas, that Rohini was already pregnant. When Yoga-māyā transferred Śeṣa from the womb of Devaki to the womb of Rohini, the incarnation of Śeṣa, or Baladeva, sort of replaced the embryo that was already within the womb of Rohini. The Bhāgavatam describes that she was as if sleeping and having a dream, and in the dream, a light came into her womb, and thus Lord Baladeva appeared from the womb of Rohini. Now here, Lord Krishna orders Yoga-māyā to take birth from the womb of Yasoda. We all know the story that after Lord Krishna appeared in the prison house of Kaṁsa, Vasudeva carried Him across the Yamuna to Gokula. In Gokula, Mother Yasoda had just given birth to a daughter, and Vasudeva took the daughter of Yasoda and replaced her with his son Krishna. But again, Srila Prabhupada quotes the comments of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, with reference to Puranas, that actually Lord Krishna appeared simultaneously as the son of Devaki and the son of Yasoda. In other words, Yasoda actually gave birth to twins. One was Krishna, and one was His sister Yoga-māyā. When Vasudeva carried Krishna from Mathura, he was not actually carrying the original form of Krishna, because the original form of Krishna resides eternally in Vrindavan. But there is an expansion of Krishna called Vasudeva Krishna, and He displays pastimes in Mathura and Dvaraka, and sometimes He has two hands, and sometimes He manifests four hands. But the original Krishna, He only manifests two hands, and He basically never leaves Vrindavan.

So, when Vasudeva carried Vasudeva Krishna from Mathura to Gokula, the original Krishna absorbed the Vasudeva Krishna, and They became one Krishna. Mother Yasoda, who was exhausted from the labor of childbirth, did not know whether she had given birth to a boy or a girl or both. Therefore, Vasudeva took away the daughter of Yasoda and carried her to Mathura. So, when Baladeva was transferred from the womb of Devaki to the womb of Rohini, the people in Mathura thought that Devaki had a miscarriage. So that was the seventh son. Then, the eighth son was Krishna, and Kaṁsa was just waiting for the eighth son of Devaki to kill him. But when Kaṁsa picked up the eighth child to dash Him on the stone and kill Him, as he had done with the other sons, the eighth child, Yoga-māyā, flew up into the sky and said, “Kaṁsa, the eighth child who was to kill you has already taken birth somewhere else.” So, the statement of Yoga-māyā that Krishna had already taken birth somewhere else indicates that Krishna did not just take birth in the prison house of Kaṁsa, but He took birth somewhere else. He actually took birth also in Gokula. So, there are so many mysteries. And as you may know, Lord Krishna has so many energies, but basically, they can be divided into two categories: the spiritual energy and the material energy. So, Yoga-māyā is the spiritual energy, but when Yoga-māyā appears in the material world as the material energy, she is called Durga, and by so many names. One of the names is Ambā. Srila Prabhupada has explained that from Ambā has come Mumbā, Mumbā devi, and now from Mumbā devi, we have Mumbaī. But actually, the source is Lord Krishna’s Yoga-māyā potency.

So, Krishna is speaking to Yoga-māyā:

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

“Since you will appear as My contemporary sister, people within the world will worship you with all kinds of valuable presentations, incense, candles, flowers, and offerings of sacrifice. You shall quickly satisfy their desires for sense gratification. People who are after materialistic affection will worship you under the different forms of your expansions, which will be named Durgā, Bhadrakālī, Vijayā, Vaiṣṇavī, Kumudā, Caṇḍikā, Kṛṣṇā, Mādhavī, Kanyakā, Māyā, Nārāyaṇī, Īśānī, Śāradā and Ambikā.”

COMMENT

Krishna behaves differently with different devotees and relatives. So, we find later in the Kṛṣṇa book that Baladeva, somehow, was a little friendly with Duryodhana, although Duryodhana was terribly envious of the Pandavas and especially Arjuna, who was the best friend of Krishna. And he was, consequently, also inimical towards Lord Krishna. So, the sister of Krishna and Balarama, who is known as Subhadra, who is Yoga-māyā, she came of age to be married. Krishna wanted her to marry Arjuna, but Balarama wanted her to marry Duryodhana. So there was a crisis, but Lord Krishna is so intelligent and so tactful, He knew that He could not [Break in audio 00:46:49] Lord Ramachandra, which He did not like. There are many examples, but the worst came at the end, when Lord Ramachandra ordered Lakshman to place Sita in the fire. How could Lakshman do it? It was a terrible thing, but because He was the younger brother, He had to do it. In the same way, although He wanted to serve Lord Rama in so many ways, because He was the younger brother, sometimes Lord Rama prohibited Him, and He just had to remain silent and tolerate. So Lakshman resolved very firmly that, “In the future, I will not take birth, again, as the younger brother. In Our future incarnations, I will take birth as the older brother.” Therefore, He appeared as the older brother, as Lord Balarama.

So, anyway, Subhadra really wanted to marry Arjuna, and Krishna also wanted her to marry Arjuna. So He devised a plan that during the four months of the rainy season, called cāturmāsya, which we are in right now, the sannyasis traditionally, in India, although they travel during the rest of the year, but during cāturmāsya, they stay in one place and show favor to the people of the place. So, Lord Krishna advised Arjuna secretly, “You should dress as a sannyasi and come to visit our place. Because you are a sannyasi, no one will question you.” So, Arjuna took the advice of Krishna, and he appeared as a sannyasi. Naturally, as householders, Krishna and Balarama received the sannyasi and invited him for prasāda. So during prasāda, he was casting his glance upon Subhadra, and she was also looking very lovingly at Arjuna. Then, according to the plan, Arjuna physically kidnapped Subhadra, and took her out of the house and escaped. So, Lord Balarama became very furious. Lord Krishna, as the younger brother and as the well-wisher of everyone, He fell down at the lotus feet of Balarama, and He begged Him not to be angry and not to take action. So even among the Personalities of Godhead, there is individuality. It is very inconceivable, because Krishna and Balarama are the same; They are not different. But They do have Their own natures, but They do have Their individual relationships with Their friends, and relatives, and devotees, but ultimately, all of the pastimes of the Lord are harmonized by Yoga-māyā.

Srila Prabhupada explains that in the spiritual world, there is unity in diversity. Although there are so many diverse individuals, there is unity on the common platform of Krishna consciousness. But in the material world, there is diversity, but no unity, and therefore, there is always fighting. But in the spiritual world, there is no fighting; there is unity in diversity. Srila Prabhupada wanted us to pursue the same principle within ISKCON of unity in diversity, because of the common principle of service to Guru and Gauranga, there should be no fighting.

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

Kṛṣṇa and Yoga-māyā appeared as brother and sister –

COMMENT

Here is another evidence that Krishna took birth simultaneously as the son of Nanda and Yasoda, because if Krishna was just the son of Vasudeva and Devaki, and Yoga-māyā was the daughter of Nanda and Yasoda, how would they be brother and sister?

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

Krishna and Yoga-māyā appeared as brother and sister, the Supreme Powerful and the supreme power. Although there is no clear distinction between the powerful and the power, the power is always subordinate to the powerful. Like the sun and the sun rays, we cannot really separate them, but still, the sun is the powerful, the sun is the source of the power, and the sunshine is the power of the sun. Those who are materialistic are worshipers of the power, but those who are transcendentalists are worshipers of the powerful. Krishna is the Supreme Powerful, and Durga is the supreme power within the material world.

COMMENT

So, an example of a demon who wanted to enjoy the energy of the Lord without the Lord is Rāvaṇa. Sita is the energy of Rama, and we also worship Sita with Rama. We worship Sita-Rama; Radha-Krishna; Lakshmi-Narayana. But when someone wants to enjoy the energy of the Lord, or exploit the energy of the Lord, independent of the Lord, he is considered a demon; like Rāvaṇa is considered a demon. But when he tried to kidnap Sita, he did not actually kidnap the spiritual energy of Lord Ramachandra, Sita-devi. He actually kidnapped māyā-sītā, an illusory representation of Sita-devi, because no materialistic person can touch the spiritual energy of the Lord. In fact, no materialistic person can even see the spiritual energy of the Lord. So, he did not actually contact the original Sita, who is the spiritual energy of the Lord, but he captured māyā-sītā, or the illusory representation of Sita, or in other words, not the spiritual energy of the Lord, but the material energy of the Lord. Originally, there is only spiritual energy. So, when the spiritual energy is engaged in the service of the Lord, it remains spiritual. But when the Lord’s energy is taken by the materialist to enjoy and exploit, it becomes the material energy. Just like Lakshmi, or money. When money is used for materialistic enjoyment, it is material. But when the same money is engaged in the service of the Lord, it becomes spiritual, Lakshmi-Narayana. But if someone tries to separate Lakshmi from Narayana and enjoy Lakshmi separately, that is material, and that is demonic.

So, when Rāvaṇa kidnapped Sita, the original Sita went into the earth and was kept by Agni, and Rāvaṇa only saw māyā-sītā. Then again, when Sita was delivered from the clutches of Rāvaṇa, the original Sita came out from the fire, and She was completely pure. So, the idea of enjoying the energy of the Lord without the Lord is demonic. Therefore, worshipers of demigods who want materialistic enjoyment are considered demons. Even Rāvaṇa, everyone knows, he was a great devotee of Lord Śiva, but still, he is considered a demon. Hiraṇyakaśipu was a great worshiper of Brahma, but still, he was considered a demon, because they did not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

The worshiper of the power, Durga, or the external energy of Krishna, may achieve all kinds of material success very easily, but anyone who wants to be elevated transcendentally must engage in worshiping the powerful in Krishna consciousness.

COMMENT

Because Durga – the word durga means fortress or prison. So the material world is like a prison, and the conditioned souls are kept prisoners in the material world by Durga, or Maya. Now, an intelligent person will not try to enjoy life in the prison. An intelligent person will want to get out of the prison. Only a fool will try to make arrangements to be happy in the prison. So, Durga is like the warden of the prison, and the people who worship Durga are like the fools who want to be happy in the prison by bribing the warden. They think if they bribe the warden, they will be able to smuggle in some cigarettes, or some wine, or some magazines and enjoy life in the prison. So, people who worship Durga for material facilities within the material world are like the foolish people who bribe the warden to get a little facility to enjoy in the prison. But intelligent persons, they surrender to Krishna, and when they surrender to Krishna, they become released from the prison house of maya.

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg 7.14]

That the material energy, consisting of the three modes of nature, is very difficult to overcome, but one who surrenders to Krishna can very easily cross over maya. So, the warden cannot release you from the prison. The warden can only allow you some facilities within the prison. But if you surrender to the king or to the governor, and he pardons you, then he can order the warden to release you from the prison. So, we have no power to overcome the power of Durga, but if we surrender to Krishna, Krishna can order Durga, “Okay, he is My surrendered devotee. Now, you let him go.”

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

The Lord also declared to Yogamāyā that His plenary expansion, Ananta Śeṣa, was within the womb of Devakī. On account of being forcibly attracted to the womb of Rohiṇī, He would be known as Saṅkarṣaṇa and would be the source of all spiritual power, or bala, by which one could be able to attain the highest bliss of life, which is called ramaṇa. Therefore, the plenary portion, Ananta, would be known after His appearance either as Saṅkarṣaṇa or Balarama.

In the Upaniṣadas, it is stated, nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. The purport is that one cannot attain the supreme for any form of self-realization without being sufficiently favored by Balarama. Bala does not mean physical strength.

COMMENT

Sometimes, popular so-called religious leaders of India try to propagate a type of materialism. Actually, in Delhi, there were great preparations for India’s Fiftieth Independence Day celebration. So, at the Delhi Airport, they had a quotation from Jawaharlal Nehru on the wall that said something like, “The greatest temple, the greatest mosque, the greatest gurudvāra is the place where man serves mankind.” Not God. God has no place. But man. . .man is supreme; not God. So, I don’t know if this is a fit topic for the Independence Day celebrations, but the political leaders of India were very intelligent: How to make the people of India materialistic. So sometimes, political leaders use religious figures to propagate materialism. One popular religious figure, he was propagating the same type of idea that we shouldn’t go to the temples to worship God. We should go to the factories, and work is worship. So he had many materialistic ideas. I happened to get a book of his sayings. So, in one of his sayings, he wrote that we should tear up all the Tulasi plants and plant eggplants. I believe he may be the one who has the theory that to realize God, you have to be physically strong. But Srila Prabhupada is refuting here in the Kṛṣṇa book, because the Vedas say bala. Without bala, no one can realize God. But bala doesn’t mean physical strength that you get by eating ghee, although by eating kṛṣṇa-prasāda prepared in ghee one does get spiritual strength. We will be including that process very soon, because today, [Unintelligible]. So, real bala is spiritual strength, not physical strength, and real bala is infused by Balarama, therefore, devotees worship Balarama for spiritual strength in order to serve Lord Krishna. And because Balarama is the first expansion of Krishna, He is also the first servant of Krishna and He is the first knower of Krishna. So, He is the original spiritual master, because He gives us knowledge of Krishna, He gives us instruction how to serve Krishna, and gives us the strength to serve Krishna. So, Lord Balarama is very important for us because He is the original spiritual master.

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

In the Upaniṣadas, it is stated, nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. The purport is that one cannot attain the supreme or any form of self-realization without being sufficiently favored by Balarama. Bala does not mean physical strength. No one can attain spiritual perfection by physical strength. One must have the spiritual strength which is infused by Balarama or Saṅkarṣaṇa. Ananta, or Śeṣa, is the power which sustains all the planets in their different positions. Materially, the sustaining power is known as the law of gravitation, but actually, it is the display of the potency of Saṅkarṣaṇa.

COMMENT

So, actually, the scientists also try to introduce theories without God. If you ask scientists how it is that huge planets are able to float in space, they give the answer “gravitation.” But if you ask them what is gravitation, they cannot say. Gravitation is just a word; they have created – a word to describe the force that keeps the planets in space, in orbit. But what is the force? They don’t know. They just give a name: gravitation. But we know what is the force. The force is actually Baladeva, because spiritual strength also includes material strength. So Baladeva or Saṅkarṣaṇa or Ananta Śeṣa, They actually keep the planets in orbit. And in fact, Ananta Śeṣa has so many hoods, and it is described that He keeps the planets, or the universes, on His hoods. And these huge bodies of material elements are just like little mustard seeds to Ananta Śeṣa; so insignificant. But even though Ananta – the very name Ananta means unlimited – even though Ananta has unlimited strength, unlimited heads, unlimited tongues, even though he tries to reach the limit of the glories of the Lord with his unlimited tongues for unlimited time, He cannot reach the limit. That is how great God is. Krishna is.

CHAPTER 2 (continued)

Balarama or Saṅkarṣaṇa is spiritual power or the original spiritual master. Therefore, Lord Nityānanda Prabhu, who is also the incarnation of Balarama, is the original spiritual master, and the spiritual master is the representative of Balarama, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who supplies spiritual strength. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is confirmed that the spiritual master is the manifestation of the mercy of Krishna.

COMMENT

So, on this auspicious occasion, we can pray to Lord Balarama to give us spiritual strength to serve his representative; to serve Srila Prabhupada; to serve our personal spiritual master. Because Lord Balarama is so merciful, He will definitely hear our prayer and give us strength to serve Sri Sri Radha-Gopinatha. And Srila Prabhupada also explains that strength means intelligence. So He gives us the strength; He gives us the intelligence: How to render devotional service. So, I will conclude by quoting two little anecdotes from Srila Prabhupada. Some of you might have heard them. Once, when Srila Prabhupada was riding in the car from Calcutta to Mayapur, he raised the question, “Who is stronger, Krishna or Balarama?” So, who can guess the answer, who hasn’t heard this story? Is Krishna stronger, or is Balarama stronger?

Devotee: Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Krishna? Why?

Devotee: Because He is the source of Balarama.

Giriraj Swami: Because He is the source of Balarama. That is a good answer, but Srila Prabhupada gave a little different answer. Anyway, Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes, Krishna.” But the answer he gave is that when we see the Deities of Krishna and Balarama, Balarama is resting on the shoulder of Krishna. So that means that Krishna is stronger; He is giving support to Balarama.

The other incident took place at the Ardh Khumba-mela, in 1971. Two of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples were having an argument. Srila Prabhupada’s disciples were really wonderful devotees, and they were very strong individuals. To spread Krishna consciousness, the way they did, they had to be strong individuals. Just to overcome all the opposition of their families and their communities, they had to be very strong. So, one disciple was Yamuna devi, and the other disciple was Madhudvisa Prabhu. They are both very active in devotional service, even now. So, one of them was saying that Krishna and Balarama are the same; the only difference is that Krishna is black and Balarama is white. And the other was giving the argument that no, there is a difference, because Krishna is the only enjoyer of Radharani. So, the argument was going back and forth, and at the time, Srila Prabhupada’s secretary was His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami. So Tamal Krishna Goswami brought the matter to Srila Prabhupada. He said that one disciple says that there is no difference between Krishna and Balarama, only Krishna is black and Balarama is white. Otherwise, there is no difference. Srila Prabhupada said, “He is right.” Then Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “But the other disciple says that actually there is a difference, because Krishna is the only enjoyer of Radharani.” So Srila Prabhupada replied, “She is right.” And Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “But Srila Prabhupada, they are both saying different things. They both can’t be right.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes, you are right.” So then, Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “Well then, who is right?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “You decide.”

Hare Krishna.

So, are there any questions or comments? Yes.

Devotee: According to you, Maharaja, who is right?

Giriraj Swami: All are right.

Devotee: Maharaja, you mentioned that – it is mentioned in Kṛṣṇa book, also – that the different relatives of Devaki and Vasudeva, they were hiding in caves, etc. But we also hear that they are incarnations, or they are different demigods, who were ordered to take birth on the Earth to assist in the pastimes of Krishna. So, it is just a small thing, but how is it that demigods were so powerless that they had to hide in caves?

Giriraj Swami: Well, demons can become more powerful than demigods. Like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he conquered the demigods, and all of the demigods, except Brahma and Shiva were serving him. Srila Prabhupada doesn’t explain so much about the power of Kaṁsa except in relation to the Earth, but there are other scriptures that explain how powerful Kaṁsa was, and he was in the same category as Hiraṇyakaśipu. He could defeat the demigods.

Devotee: Maharaja, I have one more question. You mentioned about Sita-devi being the illusory Sita-devi, which was taken by Rāvaṇa. Then, she was in the gardens of Rāvaṇa, and that is where Hanuman went and saw Her. In the Rāmāyaṇa, the version that I read, it was mentioned that Hanuman’s most worshipable form or feature of Sita-devi was the form in which She was lamenting for Lord Ramachandra. So, if that was an illusory Sita that was lamenting for Lord Ramachandra, then was Hanuman an illusion?

Giriraj Swami: The same energy, when seen in Krishna consciousness or engaged in Krishna consciousness is spiritual. The same energy when taken outside of Krishna consciousness becomes material, just like prasāda. What is prasāda? It is rice; dahl; wheat; vegetables; ghee. They are all material things. But when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu took prasāda, He told His devotees that prasāda is made of all material elements, but by tasting kṛṣṇa-prasāda, we are experiencing transcendental ecstasy. So, what is the difference between ordinary rice and dahl and kṛṣṇa-prasāda? The difference is that the ordinary rice and dahl are offered to Krishna, so it becomes spiritual. The same example of Lakshmi: When Lakshmi is worshiped with Narayana, Lakshmi-Narayana, She is spiritual. But when Lakshmi is worshiped independently, She is material. People who worship Lakshmi without Narayana are like worshipping demigods or demigoddesses.

Now, we are worshiping the Deity. The Deity is made of marble, but Srila Prabhupada explains that if a non-devotee sees the Deity and thinks that the Deity is stone, then for him, the Deity is stone; nothing but stone. But if a devotee sees the Deity as the Lord, for him, the Deity is Krishna, and he can actually speak to Him. So the same Deity is Krishna for the devotee and stone for the non-devotee. So, the same Sita is maya for the demon Rāvaṇa, but Sita for the devotee Hanuman. So, it is not an illusion when Hanuman is perceiving the original Sita. Sometimes we see the picture of Hanuman opening up his heart, and what do we find in Hanuman’s heart? Sita and Rama. If we open up the heart of a materialist, we won’t find Sita and Rama; we will find a lot of blood. But if we look into the heart of Hanuman, we will see Sita and Rama. So we cannot have material conceptions or limit Sita-devi. She can manifest Herself for Hanuman anywhere, at any time, but not for Rāvaṇa.

Devotee: Maharaja, you mentioned that the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, always resides in Vrindavan, and the one who was born in Mathura was Vasudeva Krishna. So, a doubt has arisen in my mind: who was the person who narrated Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna in Kurukshetra? Because the original Personality, if He doesn’t leave Vrindavan and always resides in Vrindavan, then what was the form which narrated the Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna at Kurukshetra?

Giriraj Swami: Well, Krishna in Mathura and Dvaraka and Kurukshetra is Vasudeva Krishna. But as I mentioned, sometimes He shows four hands, and sometimes He shows two hands. As the friend of Arjuna, He shows two hands, because they are in sākhya-rasa. Arjuna was seeing Krishna as friend, as equal, and therefore Krishna showed Himself with two hands, just like a human being. Therefore, after Krishna showed the universal form and the four-armed form, Arjuna asked Him to return to His original form with two hands.

Devotee: Maharaja, you mentioned that, at the time Kaṁsa was playing the role of charioteer to his sister, Devaki. At that time, a voice came from the heavens which told him that “The eighth son of Devaki will be your killer; the one who will kill you.” Now, whose voice was that, and why did that voice come? And the second instance was when Yoga-māyā warned him that Krishna is already born in another place. So, why was this warning given to Kaṁsa in the first instance as well as in the second instance?

Giriraj Swami: There is a great plan of the Lord, because the Lord appears, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya sambhavāmi yuge yuge. So Lord Krishna appeared in order to deliver the devotees and to annihilate the miscreants. Narada is a pure devotee of Krishna, but even he went to Kaṁsa and gave hints to Kaṁsa. Why? The Bhāgavatam explains the reason was to accelerate the advent of Lord Krishna; to accelerate the pastimes of the Lord; to accelerate the mission of the Lord. Do you understand? Krishna does not need to come personally to kill the demons; He has many agents who can kill the demons. The real reason He comes is to give solace to His devotees who are being harassed by the demons. So the real reason Krishna appeared was to give solace to Vasudeva and Devaki, but coincidentally, at the same time, He also killed Kaṁsa. So if Kaṁsa never persecuted Devaki and Vasudeva, Krishna would not have appeared, and therefore the purpose of the Lord’s descent would not have been fulfilled. So, to create the situation where the Lord would descend to give protection to the devotees, the voice from the sky came. It is called ākāśvāṇī, voice from the sky.

Devotee: Maharaja, in the beginning, you told that Krishna, when He planned that Subhadra should be kidnapped by Arjuna, Arjuna came as a sannyasi. So, normally, sannyasis, they teach people to renounce all these worldly things, and Krishna told Arjuna that you should come as a sannyasi and kidnap. So, don’t you think that He was setting a wrong example?

Giriraj Swami: If a sannyasi were to kidnap a lady, it would be a very bad example. But Arjuna was not a sannyasi; he was a kshatriya, and he had every right to carry away a young lady and marry her. So he is not setting a bad example.

Devotee: But everybody there, they would determine that he is a sannyasi, he is not Arjuna.

Giriraj Swami: When Arjuna kidnapped Subhadra, although initially they thought he was a sannyasi, but after he kidnapped her, they knew that he wasn’t a sannyasi. They could understand that it was a trick of Krishna to allow Arjuna to marry Subhadra. But I agree, even if a kshatriya was playing as a sannyasi and he did something which a sannyasi should not do, and people thought he was a sannyasi, it would be a bad example. But they never believed that a sannyasi kidnapped Subhadra; they knew it was a trick of Lord Krishna.