SB 7.9.44 – Equal in All Situations

Giriraj Swami:

ŚB 7.9.44

prāyeṇa deva munayaḥ sva-vimukti-kāmā
maunaṁ caranti vijane na parārtha-niṣṭhāḥ
naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān vimumukṣa eko
nānyaṁ tvad asya śaraṇaṁ bhramato ‘nupaśye

TRANSLATION

My dear Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, I see that there are many saintly persons indeed, but they are interested only in their own deliverance. Not caring for the big cities and towns, they go to the Himālayas or the forest to meditate with vows of silence [mauna-vrata]. They are not interested in delivering others. As for me, however, I do not wish to be liberated alone, leaving aside all these poor fools and rascals. I know that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without taking shelter of Your lotus feet, one cannot be happy. Therefore I wish to bring them back to shelter at Your lotus feet.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This is the decision of the Vaiṣṇava, the pure devotee of the Lord. For himself he has no problems, even if he has to stay in this material world, because his only business is to remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Kṛṣṇa conscious person can go even to hell and still be happy. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyāḥ: “O best of the great personalities, I am not at all afraid of material existence.” The pure devotee is never unhappy in any condition of life. This is confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (6.17.28):

nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve
na kutaścana bibhyati
svargāpavarga-narakeṣv
api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ

“Devotees solely engaged in the devotional service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, never fear any condition of life. For them the heavenly planets, liberation, and the hellish planets are all the same, for such devotees are interested only in the service of the Lord.”

For a devotee, being situated in the heavenly planets and being in the hellish planets are equal, for a devotee lives neither in heaven nor in hell but with Kṛṣṇa in the spiritual world. The secret of success for the devotee is not understood by the karmīs and jñānīs. Karmīs therefore try to be happy by material adjustment, and jñānīs want to be happy by becoming one with the Supreme. The devotee has no such interest. He is not interested in so-called meditation in the Himālayas or the forest. Rather, his interest is in the busiest part of the world, where he teaches people Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

COMMENT

So, the devotee derives happiness from devotion of service, and therefore he can go anywhere in the world, in the higher planets, in the lower planets, or anywhere, and be happy, because wherever he is, he can engage in the service of the Lord. Sri Prabodhananda Sarasvati says that viśvāsa-purnaṁ sukhāya te, that he sees the whole world full of happiness. In Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Krishna says about the material world, that it is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, that it is full of misery and temporary. So how does Prabodhananda Sarasvati says, viśvāsa-purnaṁ sukhāya te, that he sees the material world full of happiness. The happiness of the devotee lies in the service of the Lord, in giving pleasure to the Lord. And the devotee sees that he can serve the Lord anywhere, therefore he sees the universe full of happy opportunities for devotional service. And therefore the devotee doesn’t matter whether he is in heaven or hell, or liberated or what, because in any condition, he can engage in the service of the Lord. And therefore Lord Shiva glorifies the devotees—api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ.

nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve
na kutaścana bibhyati
svargāpavarga-narakeṣv
api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ [S.B-6.17.28]

That the devotee of the Lord is equal in all situations, and he sees heaven and hell and liberation all the same. Because as Srila Prabhupada remarked, the devotee lives neither in heaven nor in hell, but he lives in Krishna, in Krishna consciousness. Therefore, in the previous verse, Prahlada Maharaja tells Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva that he is not afraid of material existence, because wherever he is, he can become absorbed in the ocean of the nectar of devotion, and therefore he can feel transcendental pleasure. But Prahlada Maharaja says, I do have one lamentation, and that is that people cannot be happy without Krishna consciousness, and still they do not come to Krishna consciousness. So he is always thinking and making plans how to bring them to the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord.

So here Prahlada Maharaja explains further that there are two classes of saintly persons. One is the bhajanānandī. He is interested in his own liberation. He takes pleasure in his own practices. And the other is the goṣṭhyānandī. He is interested in the deliverance of others, and he takes pleasure in bringing others to Krishna. So here Prahlada says that most saintly persons are bhajanānandī. They are not interested in others. They just want to be liberated themselves. But Prahlada Maharaja says he is not like them. He does not want to go back home, back to Godhead alone, but he wants to bring as many of the kṛpaṇa with him as possible. So what is a kṛpaṇa? A kṛpaṇa is literally a miser. A miser is someone who has something valuable, but he does not make proper use of it. Just like the typical idea of the miser is the miser has wealth, but he does not spend it for any beneficial purpose. So he is a miser. So when a living entity comes to the human form of life, he has the most valuable asset, which is the human body. Because the human body can be used to realize God. But if he keeps the valuable asset of the human body and does not use it for the best purpose, he is a kṛpaṇa, or a miser. And the scriptures say that one should not be a miser. He should not acquire the valuable human form of life and live like an animal, taking birth, living for some time, producing offspring, and dying without any knowledge of God or any realization of God. One should be a brahman and understand the Absolute Truth and make a permanent solution to the problems of life, which are the repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease. In other words, one should achieve liberation in the human form of life.

So out of so many living entities, very few come to the human form. And out of so many human beings, very few try for liberation. But here Prahlada Maharaja says that even though so many try for liberation, he is not like them, because he will not be happy just being liberated alone. He does not want to go back home, back to Godhead alone. But he wants to take as many of the kṛpaṇas with him as possible.

PURPORT (continued)

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started for this purpose. We do not teach one to meditate in a secluded place just so that one may show that he has become very much advanced and may be proud of his so-called transcendental meditation, although he engages in all sorts of foolish materialistic activity. A Vaiṣṇava like Prahlada Mahārāja is not interested in such a bluff of spiritual advancement.

COMMENT

So Bhagavad-gītā says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye [B.G-7.3]. That out of many thousands and thousands of persons, one must seek liberation. And out of many thousands and thousands of perfect beings, hardly one will know Krishna in truth. But most impersonalists do not achieve perfection. They simply make a show. So what to speak of those who make a show, even those who are actually serious about liberation. Even Prahlada Maharaja does not want to be like them. Because even though they may be serious about liberation, they don’t think of the benefit of others. And Prahlada, as a Vaishnava, thinks of the benefit of others and he wants to bring them to the shelter of Lord Krishna’s lotus feet.

PURPORT (continued)

A Vaiṣṇava like Prahlada Mahārāja is not interested in such a bluff of spiritual advancement. Rather, he is interested in enlightening people in Kṛṣṇa consciousness because that is the only way for them to become happy. Prahlada Mahārāja says clearly, nānyaṁ tvad asya śaraṇaṁ bhramato ‘nupaśye: “I know that without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without taking shelter of Your lotus feet, one cannot be happy.” One wanders within the universe, life after life, but by the grace of a devotee, a servant of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, one can get the clue to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then not only become happy in this world but also return home, back to Godhead. That is the real target in life. 

COMMENT

So sometimes people give the argument that, “You are always talking about the life after death,” but we want to be happy in this life, we don’t want to wait. But in the previous verse Prahlada Maharaja said that even in this life he is happy because wherever he is he can chant the glories of the Lord and experience supreme bliss. So we do not wait for the next life. We achieve supreme bliss even in the present life. And after the present life we go back home, back to Godhead to experience the supreme bliss in the service of the Lord, in Krishnaloka. But one gets the idea of devotional service by the association of a devotee or a servant of Lord Chaitanya. And therefore the devotees remain within the world to give people the chance to hear about Krishna consciousness and come to the shelter of Lord Krishna’s lotus feet. And this is the purpose of the Krishna consciousness movement, to create devotees who in turn remain in the material world and preach so others can also become devotees. This is the real target in life.

PURPORT (continued)

The members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are not at all interested in so-called meditation in the Himālayas or the forest, where one will only make a show of meditation, nor are they interested in opening many schools for yoga and meditation in the cities. 

COMMENT

So in the modern age of Kali the recommended process for self-realization or God realization is saṅkīrtana. So even if one goes to the mountains or the forest to practice meditation, he cannot succeed. Because meditation is not recommended for the present age. Meditation was recommended for sattva-yuga, which was millions of years ago. But hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana is recommended for the present age. Nor can one really practice yoga in the city. Because the first instruction in the yoga system is śucau deśe, that one must go to a holy place, near a sacred river or in the mountains, away from the people. Then one can practice yoga, not in the cities. So to practice yoga in the mountains or the forest is not possible because meditation is not possible in Kali-yuga. And to practice in the cities is definitely not possible because the system does not allow for practice in the city. One must go, śucau deśe, to some sacred place.

PURPORT (continued)

The members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are not at all interested in so-called meditation in the Himālayas or the forest, where one will only make a show of meditation, nor are they interested in opening many schools for yoga and meditation in the cities. Rather, every member of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is interested in going door to door to try to convince people about the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the purpose of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. 

COMMENT

So we don’t make a show of meditation in the forest or the mountains. Nor do we try to open schools for yoga and meditation in the cities because yoga and meditation is not at all recommended for Kali-yuga. Rather, we go door to door to enlighten people in the science of Krishna. Or we go to railway stations and distribute books which describe the science of Krishna.

PURPORT (continued)

That is the purpose of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. The members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be fully convinced that without Kṛṣṇa one cannot be happy. 

COMMENT

Prahlada Maharaja is fully convinced and therefore he is thinking day and night how to bring people to the shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna. Because he knows outside the shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna they cannot be happy. So if we are convinced that one cannot be happy without Krishna consciousness then naturally we will work day and night to bring others to Krishna. But if we ourselves have some doubt, maybe I can be happy in the material world, then we will think also maybe others can be happy in the material world, maybe they are happy. And we won’t really have that sincerity of purpose or that sense of urgency to bring people to Krishna.

PURPORT (continued)

The members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be fully convinced that without Kṛṣṇa one cannot be happy. Thus the Kṛṣṇa conscious person avoids all kinds of pseudo spiritualists, transcendentalists, meditators, monists, philosophers, and philanthropists.

COMMENT

Because all of them have some other plan for happiness besides Krishna consciousness. Pseudo-spiritualists, meditators, monists, they think they can be happy by merging and becoming one with God. Philosophers, they think they can be happy by so many different philosophies. And philanthropists, they think they can be happy and bring happiness to others than mundane welfare activities. But the devotee knows that one cannot be happy without Krishna and therefore he does not waste time with pseudo-spiritualists, transcendentalists, monists, meditators, philosophers, and philanthropists. But rather he associates with other devotees and works with them to spread Krishna consciousness. And especially in the modern age by chanting the holy names of Krishna.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Are there any questions or comments?

Devotee: How can a person realize that he has advanced spiritually?

Giriraj Swami: Well, when you are eating, how can you realize that you are satisfied? You call somebody else and say, am I satisfied? Have I had enough? Can you give me a certificate? This person has eaten enough prasāda, now he is satisfied. You yourself can feel it. So by proper advancement in Krishna consciousness we will feel satisfied. Satisfied means that we will not take interest in material activities. Satisfied does not mean; now I have done enough for Krishna, now I can eat and sleep. Satisfied means, I have had enough of material life, now no more material activities. But let me serve Krishna more and more. He always wants to serve Krishna more and more. So he is satisfied in the service of Krishna. He wants nothing else but the service of Krishna. But in the service of Krishna he wants to do more and more to serve Krishna. Yes.

Devotee: How do we distinguish between a devotee and somebody who is posing like a devotee?

Giriraj Swami: We should see whether the person is following the process of Krishna consciousness. If he is following the process of Krishna consciousness, we should give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a devotee. Now, it may be that someone is not a devotee, not a pretender. And if you are intelligent enough, you can see who is a devotee and who is a pretender. But if you yourself are not advanced enough, you may mistake and think that a genuine devotee is a pretender. And if you think a genuine devotee is a pretender, then you commit an offense, vaiṣṇava-aparādha, which is very bad. And even a pretender can become a devotee. There is a story of a thief who was hearing some Bhagavad-gītā. And he heard the description of the beauty of Krishna and Balarama, how Krishna is decorated by beautiful yellow cloth and Balarama by beautiful gold cloth, and how they are adorned by beautiful jewel, necklaces, armlets, and anklets. And hearing the description of the jewels and the forms of Krishna and Balarama, he thought, Let me go to Vrindavan and steal the jewels. So he came to Vrindavan, and there were Krishna and Balarama playing as little boys. And generally an elder person can cheat a small child very easily. So, “Come here my boys, come here.” And then he went to steal the jewels of Krishna and Balarama. Somehow he became captivated by the beauty of Krishna and Balarama and he became purified. And he gave up all of his ideas of stealing from them, and he became their servant.

So even if someone comes to the temple and makes a show with the intention of stealing from Krishna or somehow taking advantage of the temple for personal benefits, even then he may also become a devotee. So we should be careful not to come in the mentality that, “I am the only true devotee everyone else is just pretending.” Even if someone worships Krishna but does not follow the regulative principles, even he is considered a sort of devotee. We do not associate intimately with such persons who do not follow regulative principles but we respect them; but they are chanting the holy name of Krishna they are also worshiping Sri Krishna. For those who are fully engaged in the service of the Lord, following the instructions of the spiritual master and the regulative principles and trying to preach, we can associate with them and we should work with them to spread Krishna consciousness.

Any other questions or comments

Devotee: Maharaja, what karmi means?

Giriraj Swami: Karmis are fruitive workers who engage in karma. Karma makes fruitive work. Fruitive work means, I work to achieve some results which I will enjoy. Suppose I plant a mango tree. I water it; after some time the seed sprouts, I maintain it becomes a tree, it produces flowers and it produces fruits and I take the fruits and I eat and I enjoy. That is fruitive work, karmi. But karma-yogi he likes to grow mangoes but when the mangoes are ripe he takes the mangoes and offers them to Krishna. So that is karma-yogi, he works but he gives the fruits to Krishna. But karmi he simply works and enjoys the fruits.

Devotee: One can be liberated by karma-yoga?

Giriraj Swami: One can only be liberated by bhakti-yoga. But even in karma yogis there are two categories: those who give some of the fruits to Krishna and those who give all of the fruits to Krishna. So my mango tree has one hundred fruits, so I will say, “Okay, I will give one to Krishna I will keep ninety-nine for myself.” So the more advanced will say, “Okay, I will give ten to Krishna, I will keep ninety.” Then he may come to the point, “I will give fifty to Krishna and keep fifty for myself.” So that is sakāma karma-yoga, karma-yoga with selfish desires. But because some of the fruits are given to Krishna it is karma-yoga but because some of the fruits are kept for me it sakāma. And niṣkāma karma-yoga means that I have no personal desires; I give all the one hundred fruits to Krishna. And niṣkāma karma-yoga is considered threshold of bhakti-yoga. After niṣkāma karma-yoga we can easily enter into bhakti-yoga. Karma-yoga means I like growing mangoes but someone says don’t grow mangoes, come to the temple distribute books. You will say, “No, I like growing mangoes. But I will give the mangos to Krishna, I will give the mangoes to the temple but let me grow mangoes.” And when one is fully surrendered to Krishna, even if he likes to grow mangoes, but still, if he understands that “Krishna wants me to come and distribute books instead,” then he will leave growing mangoes and do what Krishna prefers him to do.

Devotee: Why the influence of maya is so strong in the material world?

Giriraj Swami: The material world is the kingdom of maya. Naturally she will have influence here. But why do you let her influence you? That is the question. Once there was a saintly king named Janaka. And he was sitting on his throne. He went into the forest, but he was sitting on his throne. And so many sages and saintly persons had gathered. But they could not answer his questions as he desired. Then one very crooked, deformed sage came, named Astavakra Muni. But because his body was bent in eight places, the other sages began to laugh at him. But the king was very intelligent. He saw that, “The sage may be able to answer my questions,” so he requested him. And Astavakra Muni said that, “I will answer your questions, but first you have to get down from your throne. I will sit on your throne.” In other words, to receive spiritual knowledge one must be humble before the teacher. So Janaka came down from the throne and Astavakra Muni got up on the throne. Then the king asked, what is maya? Astavakra Muni replied, maya is like a dream. In a dream we imagine I am a king, this is my queen, I am doing this, these are my citizens, and this is my property. But when we wake up we realize that there is no reality to the dream. So that is maya.

Then he asked, how can we become free from the clutches of maya? So immediately Astavakra Muni jumped down from the throne and he ran up to one of the trees like this might be a tree. And he put his arms around the tree and very strongly was holding on to the tree. And he started to cry out, “Let me go, let me go, let go of me, set me free, let go of me.” And everyone began to laugh. But the king understood that we are asking how we can become free from the clutches of maya, but actually we are holding on to maya. She is not holding on to us. We are holding on to maya and asking her let us go, let us free.

Devotee: Work and God should go simultaneously?

Giriraj Swami: What do you mean by work? You see work for oneself should go. We should only work for God. Just like Arjuna was a warrior before he heard Bhagavad-gītā and he was a warrior after he heard Bhagavad-gītā. But before he heard Bhagavad-gītā he was thinking of his own sense gratification. What will make him happy? “Will fighting make me happy or not?” But after he heard Bhagavad-gītā he understood that the real goal was not his happiness but Krishna’s happiness. And he thought will fighting make Krishna happy? So we may engage in the same activities in Krishna consciousness as outside of Krishna consciousness. But in Krishna consciousness we do the activity for Krishna, for Krishna’s pleasure. And in material consciousness we do the activity for ourselves. But we must remain active. We don’t believe in idle so-called meditation. We must be active, but active for Krishna, not for sense gratification. Srila Prabhupada had one disciple who was an interior decorator. And before he came to Krishna consciousness he was decorating dance halls and night clubs. And after he came to Krishna consciousness he began to decorate Krishna’s temples. So Srila Prabhupada commented that previously he was decorating night clubs and going to hell. But now he is decorating Krishna’s temples and going to Vaikuntha. So the work may remain the same but instead of doing the work for sense gratification we do the work for Krishna.

Devotee: How can you attain peace of mind?

Giriraj Swami: So Krishna gives the answer in Bhagavad-gītā (5.29), how to attain peace. And he says,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

That anyone who understands that Krishna is the enjoyer of all sacrifices and austerities, Krishna is the proprietor of all planetary systems, and Krishna is the best friend of all living entities, he can achieve peace, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. In other words, we work hard. But if we work hard for ourselves we will not be peaceful. If we work hard for Krishna we will be peaceful. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram He is the Lord of all planets and the demigods thereon. So if we think we are the Lord, we cannot be peaceful. And if we think we are the proprietors, we cannot be peaceful. But if we understand Krishna is the proprietor, everything is His to enjoy, not mine, we can be peaceful. And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ, He is the best friend of the living entities. If we think someone other than Krishna, outside Krishna consciousness, can be our friend, we will never be peaceful. Because our friend will not really be able to help us. And similarly if we try to be the best friend of some other person in the material concept of life, we cannot be peaceful. Because no ordinary person can be a true friend. Only Krishna is our real friend. And anyone who brings us to Krishna is our friend. Others are not real friends. And we cannot be peaceful if we think they are our friends or if we think that we can be their friends without Krishna consciousness. But if we understand these facts and surrender to Krishna, then we can attain peace.

Devotee: So when we say niṣkāma karma, in the sense, you give all your karmas to Krishna. So we can realize whether we are doing right karmas or wrong karma. So is it proper to give the wrong karma also to Krishna? We are not doing it, but unknowingly there are some wrong karmas also that we are doing. So how can you give those wrong karmas to him?

Giriraj Swami: You should know what Krishna wants you to do and what he does not want you to do. And why should you be ignorant? You should know what Krishna wants and you should do it.

Devotee: You give the example of the mangoes. We are not going to give the ripe or the sour mangoes, the bad mangoes to Krishna. But there are things; we walk on the streets; we kill animals, bacteria, and all kinds of things. We don’t even realize they are in mode of Ignorance. We can do like what bad karmas we are doing.

Giriraj Swami: Krishna’s service. And by accident, unknowingly, you kill an ant. Then you will not be punished. Because you are not going for your own work. You are going for Krishna’s work. But if you are going for your own work, you are punishable. If a police man on duty and he is chasing, a criminal. He can go through the red light. He is not punishable, because he is doing service for the government. But if someone is not doing service for the government and he just goes through the red light because he is anxious to get to the disco, he is punishable.

Devotee: How about every thinking or thought? Lord Krishna knows every second. But such our thinking and thought, anywhere Lord Shiva, Durga also knows what we are thinking, what are our thoughts?

Giriraj Swami: Why do you ask? Why do you ask if Lord Shiva or Goddess Durga know your thoughts?

Devotee: Because Lord Krishna knows everything. What is our thinking, what is our thought? He knows every second what we are doing. Because He is in our thoughts. So if Shiva and Goddess Durga also know what we are thinking or what is our thought, they also know.

Giriraj Swami: There is a difference between the Supreme Lord Krishna and demigods like Shiva and Durga. Because Krishna is īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ,hṛd-deśe ‘rjuna tiṣṭhati, He is situated in the heart of every living entity. So He knows the thoughts of every living entity. But Lord Shiva and Goddess Durga are not Paramātmā. They are not situated within the heart of every living entity, so they do not know the thoughts of every living entity. Within a certain sphere they may know, but not universally like Lord Krishna, not everywhere.

Devotee: I am working in a factory as a supervisor, motivating workmen under me. Let me take in a chemical factory. Definitely my livelihood. How to make this into service?

Giriraj Swami: You are asking that you are working in a factory as a supervisor. So how can you turn it into work for Krishna?

Well, the work itself may have no relation to Krishna’s service. But if you give the fruit of the work, if you give the money you earn from the job to Krishna, then you are doing the work for Krishna. Generally people work for the sake of the family. They may be producing some chemicals which the family never uses. But the man of the house is paid for the work. And he uses the money for the family. So he is working for the family. In the same way if we use the money for Krishna, we are working for Krishna. Often the parents want the children to earn for them. They engage in fruitive work, and they want the children to engage in fruitive work. Actually according to varnashrama-dharma, the parents should serve the children without expectation of return. Simply as a matter of duty or as a matter of rank. So if the parents raise the children in the expectation that in the future they will serve us, they will support us that is not dharma. That is selfishness. You know that life is meant for a sacrifice, not for selfishness. The parents should see that the children become Krishna conscious. That is the parents’ duty. And according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if the parents do not serve the children, if they do not help the children to become Krishna conscious, to become liberated, they are not real parents. They are not obliged to serve them. But at the same time, if we deal nicely with our parents, and they feel that Krishna consciousness is good, because they like the way we deal with them and the way we behave in Krishna consciousness, then gradually they can also become Krishna conscious.

When Srila Prabhupada first came back to India in 1970, he arrived in Calcutta. And Calcutta was in the height of the Naxalite movement. You may know the Naxalite were young communists. And they used to kidnap rich people’s children, they used to shoot rich people on the street, they used to burn the houses of rich people. The whole of Calcutta lived in fear of the Naxalites. So one Naxalite young man came to Krishna consciousness. It was a miracle that he came to Krishna consciousness. And he became a devotee. After a few days, his mother came and met Srila Prabhupada. And she was crying and crying and weeping and weeping that he becomes a devotee. And Srila Prabhupada was so upset, he dealt nicely with the mother, but afterwards he was so upset that he was a Naxalite. He was simply causing havoc in society. She didn’t mind. But as soon as he wants to become a devotee of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, it was the greatest calamity that ever happened. He was so upset. And it is an unfortunate sequence of the story. She forced him to come back home. He was so miserable. He would always be secretly phoning the devotees. And in the end he committed suicide, such a tragedy.

Like anything but Krishna. The parents may live, five miles away. And if the child comes to the temple, they can’t bear the separation. If the child goes to America and gets a good job, no problem. No separation. They can see the child in the temple any day. They can come to the temple, see the child. America, they can’t go every day. But if he joins the temple, the family can’t bear it. He goes to America, gets a good job. Even in some bad line, but if he gets a good job, they are very happy. They will send dollars. Not rupees, dollars. So a real friend, real mother, real father is Krishna. But if one helps one’s child to become Krishna conscious, then he is a real mother, real father, a real friend who helps his friend to come to Krishna; but otherwise not.

Devotee: How can a person diversify himself from this modern world?

Giriraj Swami: Diversify? He means divorce oneself from the modern world.

Devotee: Diversify. Diversify means being in the modern world and also being in the getting out of the modern world.

Giriraj Swami: Well, the crucial point is association. If you associate with materialistic persons, you become like them. And if you associate with devotees, you become like them. So if you want to come out of the materialistic world, you have to associate with devotees. Because the devotees will not encourage you in material activities. I knew one man; he was actually a very nice man, who worked for Indian Airlines in Sri Lanka. But he had a terrible problem with drinking. He just couldn’t help himself. He didn’t want to, but he just couldn’t help himself. When he got together with his friends, he would drink. He would lose complete control, and he would suffer, and his family would suffer, and everyone was unhappy. After so many years, somehow he just prayed to God, surrendered to God. And he got some special mercy from God, some special strength to leave drinking. And he said the biggest obstacle he had in staying away from drink were his friends; so-called friends. His friends would always phone him, come on, we are having a party, come on, join us. And his so-called friends actually became his enemies. Although they didn’t mean anything bad, but they became his enemies because they were trying to involve him in the very things that he was trying to give up, in the very things that actually caused so much pain to himself and his family. So if you associate with devotees, there is no chance that they will call you, come on, let us have a drink, come on, let us go to, let us have a burger. They will say, “Come on, let us go to the temple. Come on, let us go to the satsaṅga.” So if you want to be free from material activities, then you have to divert yourself from materialistic associations. And then you can easily engage in spiritual activities, which will free you from the miseries of material existence.

Actually, George Harrison, who is one of the most famous singers in the world, one of the Beatles, after he came to Krishna consciousness, he wrote a song, it was based on his own life’s experience. The theme of the song was that he had so many friends before he came to Krishna consciousness, and he thought that they wanted him to be happy. But when he became happy in Krishna consciousness, they were not happy. What kind of friends were they? Even my parents, when I was young, I used to ask them, “What do you want me to be when I grow up?” “Son, whatever will make you happy.” When I became happy in Krishna consciousness, they were not happy. They were trying to get me out. When they say that they want the other person to be happy, they are thinking of their own interests. On one level it may be economic, on another level it may be social, what will people think, how will our family prestige be affected? So, their own interest in life.

Devotee: Why is temptation created in a person?

Giriraj Swami: Because we want to be tempted. Of course, it is also true that desire is a subtle form of conditioning. So, we become conditioned to like certain things which are not good for us. And even though we know they are not good for us, we may be tempted to enjoy them. But ultimately, everything depends on our desire. And if we do not desire to be tempted, we won’t be tempted. If we are tempted to something forbidden, we should create a situation where we cannot yield to the temptation. And of course, usually the best protection is the association of devotees. In the association of devotees, we cannot really engage in forbidden activities. But we should avoid such situations where we may be tempted and yield to the temptations. And later, when we become more strong in Krishna consciousness and experience the higher taste, we won’t be so tempted, because we will have something better.

Devotee: How does one get over the fear that he should not approach a devotee because he is full of sinfulness?

Giriraj Swami: How does one overcome the fear of approaching a devotee because he feels he is too sinful to approach the devotee?

Well, Srila Narottama dasa Thakura sings that, by the appearance of the devotee one’s sins go far away. So when one wants to give up one’s sins, one should associate with devotees. And if you feel that you are too sinful to associate with the devotees, then how will you become free of your sins? Outside the association of devotees, do you have any program to become free of your sins? So such feelings, although apparently nice, may actually be maya. Maya may actually be trying to keep you away from the devotees by dictating that you are too fallen so you can’t associate with the devotees. But all the scriptures say that even the most fallen can be delivered by taking shelter of the devotees. Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that even a dog-like non-devotee can become a devotee of Lord Chaitanya if he takes shelter of or gets association from another devotee of Lord Chaitanya. So in the purport Srila Prabhupada explains that dogs are not expected to become devotees. In fact, dogs are considered the number one non-devotees. And we see that dogs very often pass water on tulasi. It is most sacred and dear to Lord Krishna. So they are so low that they are not expected to become devotees. But there are many instances of devotees, who have dogs who have become devotees by taking shelter of devotees.

One dog began to follow the party of Shivananda Sena on the way to Jagannatha Puri. And Shivananda Sena gave shelter to the dog. And when the devotees would cross on a boat, he would buy a ticket for the dog. And in end, the dog attained the lotus feet of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and went back home back to Godhead. And Bhāgavatam gives a list of sinful races, sinful communities. And says that anyone who takes shelter of the pious devotees of the Lord, even if coming from the sinful communities, he can be delivered by the potency of the Almighty.

Devotee: When a person is sinful and He surrenders to Krishna, but even after surrendering he commits sinful activities. What is the position of that person?

Giriraj Swami: He surrenders to Krishna and still engages in sinful activities, not wanting to, but accidentally. And if he repents and tries his best not to sin again, Krishna will excuse him. He can be purified. But if one wilfully and knowingly commits sinful activities, thinking, Now I am a devotee, now I am chanting Hare Krishna, I can engage in sinful activities and I can be free from the action by chanting Hare Krishna, then that is a very offensive mentality. And one will not be excused. And if one is trying his best to follow, but due to bad association or past habit, then accidentally falls down and he repents that, “Oh, I have done this,” and he tries his best not to do it again, then Krishna will excuse him and he can continue and make progress.

Devotee: No man is perfect. How can he become perfect?

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada says one can become perfect by serving the perfect. So Krishna is perfect; by serving Krishna we can become perfect.

Devotee: I know many religions have followers, many living in this world. But they are more impersonalized, non-sense. And the Hinduism also is more impersonalized.

Giriraj Swami: That is why so many so-called religionists preach impersonalism. Muslims, even Hindus, even Christians. Srila Prabhupada explains in the Bhāgavatam that Shankaracharya introduced the philosophy of Mayavada to increase Kali-yuga. Because in Kali-yuga people are sinful. Now, if people get the higher taste of Krishna consciousness, they can give up sin. But if there is no higher taste in Krishna consciousness, then they may engage in sin. So there is no higher taste in impersonalism. And so many impersonals engage in sinful activities. So Shankaracharya introduced impersonalism to bring out Kali-yuga through Varṇāśankara, which means unwanted population. Because there is no higher taste in impersonalism. So people will engage in illicit sex, they produce unwanted children. Unwanted children make the world hellish and Kali will reign. And Shankaracharya is the incarnation of Lord Shiva. Srila Prabhupada explains because Lord Shiva is the controller of the mode of ignorance. He has concentrated the mode of ignorance in the Mayavada philosophy. And therefore it is extremely powerful. And people who come in contact with Mayavada philosophy can be completely bewildered. Because all the force of the mode of ignorance has been concentrated in Mayavada philosophy. It is very hard to get out of it. Of course by the mercy of a pure devotee one can. But without the association of a pure devotee it is almost impossible.

Devotee: Maharaja, one should always try to avoid the association of non-devotees as far as possible. But circumstantially, if one is associating with them because of some dealing with them, being still in the material world, so how one should act in that case? If circumstantially is associating with non-devotees.

 Giriraj Swami: Yes, because of family or work one may have to deal with non-devotees. Again in non-devotees there are two categories. Those who are envious and those who are innocent. Those who are innocent and open to Krishna consciousness we can gradually tell them about Krishna. In other words, we should try to be nice to people. And if they appreciate us, they will make advancement even if they don’t understand Krishna. But they will advance just by appreciating a devotee, even if they don’t do any service. And if you develop a relationship with them one day you can ask them to do some service and they will agree and then they can make further progress. So we should not preach to the unfaithful, we should not preach to the unwilling. Those who are willing to here, we should not force them but just deal nicely with them so that they are inclined towards us.

Devotee: Chanting from non-devotees should be avoided. Chanting from non-devotees should be avoided. But sometimes what happens, those who are not devotee never get change. Prabhupada says in the cassette that follows, that Chanting from non-devotee should be avoided. But in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said that if one change, one human being can become a non-seeker still a devotee. But no human being.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, we should hear the holy name from pure devotees. Now, sometimes Mayavadis also chant and they tell their followers to chant. But along with the chanting they give some Mayavada philosophy and the whole thing becomes poisoned. The example is given that milk is very good, but if it is touched by the lips of a serpent it becomes poison. So similarly, hari-kathā is like nectar, but if it is touched by the lips of non-devotees, especially Mayavadis, it becomes poison. So we should not go to Mayavadis. Even if they were speaking about Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and even if they are chanting hari-nāma, we should not go to them or hear from them. The poison of Mayavada will enter and the nectar will be contaminated by the poison. Not the nectar will be contaminated, but we will be contaminated.

Devotee: Mayavadis are also liberated. We are also liberated, Mayavadis. How? Yes. If you think about it, the only thing important is brahman, and the committed persons who chant.

Giriraj Swami: No. Okay. Yes. Mayavadis and Brahmavadi, they are both impersonalists. Brahmavadi, they appreciate the impersonal feature of the Absolute Truth. And as you say, they want to merge into the impersonal feature. But they are not offenders. They just prefer the impersonal effulgence. But Mayavadis are different. They are offenders. They say that Krishna’s name, Krishna’s form, Krishna’s qualities, Krishna’s pastimes, Krishna’s service are all maya. And they are offenders. So they do not get liberated. But the Brahmavadi are not offenders. They don’t speak against Krishna. They just are more inclined to the impersonal feature. So they may be liberated. But even then, they need some touch of devotion to Krishna to be liberated. But the Mayavadis have no devotion for Krishna. To the contrary, they are offensive to Krishna. So they can never be liberated.