SB 2.1.33 – Serving without Any Condition

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Canto Two, Chapter One—“The First Step in God Realization.”

TEXT 33

nadyo ‘sya nāḍyo ‘tha tanū-ruhāṇi
mahī-ruhā viśva-tanor nṛpendra
ananta-vīryaḥ śvasitaṁ mātariśvā
gatir vayaḥ karma guṇa-pravāhaḥ

TRANSLATION

O King, the rivers are the veins of the gigantic body, the trees are the hairs of His body, and the omnipotent air is His breath. The passing ages are His movements, and His activities are the reactions of the three modes of material nature.

COMMENT

So the description of the universal form is meant materialistic persons to bring them from the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth to the personal conception. Because a materialistic persons see the universe as the biggest of things which they can conceive. So because the Lord is the Supreme and for them the universe is supreme, so they are taught to see the universe as the form of the Lord. So here the description of the universal is given; nadyo ‘sya nāḍyo ‘tha tanū-ruhāṇi—the rivers are the veins of the universal form. Mahī-ruhā viśva-tanor nṛpendra—the plants and trees are the hairs of the body of the universal form and gatir vayaḥ karma guṇa-pravāhaḥ—the passing of the ages are his movements and the reactions of the three modes of material nature are his activities. So here Srila Prabhupada comments on the activities of the Lord. Some persons think that the Lord has no activities. But here the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says that the Lord does have activities and as represented in the universal form, when we see the reactions of the three modes of material nature we can see them as the activities of the universal form.

Now the Vedas also say, na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65]. That the Lord has no work to perform. Still although the Lord has no work to perform, He does have activities. Even big men in the material world have no work. For example, in India Mr. Birla was the biggest man but if Mr. Birla wants to establish a factory he does not have to do any work. He just informs his secretary that, “I want such and such factory in such and such place,” and the secretary communicates the order and the officers execute the work. So even big men in the material world have no work, but they have activities. And even though the Lord has no work He has activities. Activities are pastimes. So the Lord has no work but He does have pastimes. Pastimes are different from work. Work is impelled by necessity whereas pastimes are impelled by pleasure. So in the spiritual world, Krishna engages in so many blissful pastimes with His devotees. But in the material world He has no work. It is executed by the Lord’s agents; that is the material nature and therefore the Lord says in Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10]. The material nature is working under the superintendence of the Lord. So although the Lord has no work still it is said that not even a blade of grass can move without the sanction of the Lord. Anything in the material nature is working under the superintendence of the Lord.

Sometimes people raise the question that if not even a blade of grass can move without the sanction of the Lord, why is there so much evil in the world. Why does the Lord allow it? But Srila Prabhupada explains that sometimes the Lord gives sanctions to things which He does not really approve, but He gives sanction reluctantly. Just like the father will give some instruction to the son but the child will not want to obey the instruction of the father. Ultimately the father will not try to force the child to obey. He will reluctantly give his sanction that, “I have given you my advice now you do whatever you want.” Force does not work. The father may try to force the child but the child will only resent it and he may even rebel. So Krishna is the Supreme Father and He also does not force. Although Krishna wanted Arjuna to fight, He did not force Arjuna to fight but He gave him the knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. And in the end Lord Krishna said to Arjuna, “Now I have explained everything, yathecchasi tathā kuru, now you do whatever you like.” And Arjuna came to the correct conclusion and voluntarily he agreed; kariṣye vacanaṁ tava, I will act according to your order. So this is surrender; to act according to the order of the superior, voluntarily

Srila Prabhupada explains that the living entity is always marginal and whatever position he is in he may use it either for sense gratification or for devotional service. For example Srila Prabhupada had one disciple named Purandara and he became involved with a woman and left the association of devotees. And he took up residence in a place called Santa Monica. So he was saying that Krishna should not have allowed him to misuse his independence. Krishna does not interfere with the minute independence of the living entity. Because ultimately Krishna does not want anything from us. The only thing he wants is our love and love is voluntary. Love cannot be forced. Krishna gives us all good instruction and interferes with the minute independence of the living entity. Gives us the choice; yathecchasi tathā kuru—whatever you like you may do. Surrender to the order of Krishna, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava, we will agree willingly and voluntarily to abide by the order of the Lord. And then we become free. Freedom does not mean to act whimsically or independently. As soon as we act independently we come under the control of material nature. By nature we are controlled, by constitution we are controlled and our freedom to choose is whether we want to come under the control of material nature or under the control of Lord Krishna. That is our minute independence. We can choose either to serve maya or to serve Krishna. By nature or constitution, we are servants.

Once Srila Prabhupada gave a lecture in, maybe, Seattle. And at the end of the lecture one young man raised his hand and offered his comments that, “I do not want to bow down to anyone.” Actually at the end of the lecture Srila Prabhupada’s disciples offered obeisances. The young man said that, “I do not want to bow down to anyone because I don’t think that I am really less than anyone. So why should I have to bow down to someone.” Srila Prabhupada replied that, “Your constitutional position is to bow down. If you don’t bow down voluntarily to Krishna and Krishna’s representative, you will be forced to bow down to material nature. You will be forced to bow down to birth, disease, old age, and death. So you have no choice but to bow down. Only you can consider and decide where you can bow down and become happy. Right now we are bowing down to maya, to material nature, and we are suffering from becoming happy. So you can consider whether you want to bow down to maya or to Krishna. Otherwise by nature you will be forced to bow down.”

There was once a popular singer named Boy George. Boy George had some attraction to Krishna consciousness and he came to Vrindavan and stayed in our temple there. So he expected that the visitors to the temple would bow down to the deities and he was surprised to see that so many visitors were coming to the temple and they were not bowing down. So he wrote the song “Bow Down Mr.” Why are you so proud, you are not bowing down, you should bow down to Krishna. So the universal form of the Lord is meant to impress the materialistic persons with the greatness of the Lord. They are inspired to bow down before the greatness of the Lord. Bowing down actually means surrendering, so the First Chapter of the Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is entitled “The First Step in God Realization. The first step is to realize the greatness of God; that God is great and we are very small. Therefore our duty is to serve God. Therefore at the end of Bhagavad-gītā Lord Krishna instructs sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg.-18.66]. To give up all varieties of religiousness, give up all other duties and just surrender to Krishna. And here the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins where the Bhagavad-gītā ends. That God is great and we are very small therefore we should surrender to God. And we always have the free will to choose whether we want to surrender to God or not.

Once I asked Srila Prabhupada that, “You know everything about us, tell us better than we know ourselves.” Sometimes you put someone in a very exalted position and still he falls down, how is that. And Srila Prabhupada replied that the living entity is always marginal and whatever position he is in you can use it either for personal sense gratification or for Lord Krishna’s service. So the spiritual master will put the disciple in the best position for service. The disciple always has the freedom to choose whether to use the position for sense gratification or for Krishna’s pleasure. And when Purandara was complaining that, “Krishna should not have allowed me to misuse my independence,” Srila Prabhupada replied in the same way. The living entity is always marginal and he always has the freedom to choose to serve Krishna or to serve maya. Each and every one of us, practically at every moment, is faced with the choice: are we going to serve Krishna or serve maya? If we serve Krishna, He places us under the internal potency, under Srimati Radharani. We can enjoy eternal life full of bliss and knowledge. But if we fail to serve Krishna or if we refuse to serve Krishna, then we are placed under the external potency or maya. Maya always calls us to enjoy her, but when we go to enjoy her, she punishes us.

Srila Prabhupada gave the example that she-ass emits a sound which calls the he-ass for sex enjoyment. When the male ass goes to the female ass to enjoy, she rears up on her front legs and kicks him very violently with her rear legs. Srila Prabhupada says in the same way, maya calls us to enjoy her; she kicks us. Maybe not immediately, but in due course she will kick us. And then we wonder Why am I forced to suffer? But the reason you are forced to suffer is because you tried to enjoy maya instead Krishna. But maya is also a servant of Krishna. She also wants us to surrender to Krishna and Krishna’s representative before she kicks us. Thus Srila Prabhupada says that our business and maya’s business are the same: to induce the conditioned souls to surrender to Krishna. So our business is the same. Maya’s method is kicking and our method is humble persuasion or preaching. So again, one has the choice. You can listen to the instructions of Krishna’s devotees and surrender to Krishna, or you can be kicked by maya; kicked and kicked and kicked until finally he comes to his senses and decides to surrender to Krishna and Krishna’s representatives. So even in nature, seeing the trees, seeing the mountains, seeing the rivers, seeing the sky, we can think of the universal form of the Lord. We can think of the greatness of God to live according to His direction, and thus become happy. Hare Krishna.

Are there any questions or comments?

Devotee: [Unintelligible: 00:21:00]

Giriraj Swami: Hanuman Prabhu says that although Krishna doesn’t force us to surrender to Him, He gives us the choice to serve Him or serve maya. But if we choose to serve maya, we suffer. So indirectly we are forced to serve Him. Because if we don’t, we are forced to suffer.

Actually we are not forced to serve Krishna. We see practically so many persons are not serving Krishna. If one is intelligent and he understands the choice, either to serve Krishna and be happy or serve maya and suffer. Then yes, he will be obliged by his intelligence to conclude that he should serve Krishna. But Krishna also gives us the choice to be intelligent or to be foolish, and foolish persons choose not to serve Krishna. And although they are suffering by the influence of maya or by the mercy of maya, they think they are enjoying. So such foolish persons think I am enjoying. Why should I surrender to Krishna? But it is true. If one is sober and intelligent, like Hanuman Prabhu, one is more or less obliged to surrender because he knows the alternative is worse; to suffer the three fold miseries of material existence. But not everyone is sober and intelligent. Srila Prabhupada says even the worm in the stool was in the most abominable position. Even he thinks he can enjoy. So the association of devotees, by hearing from the Vedic literatures, we are meant to understand the fact that we are suffering in the material world and we are not enjoying. Again and again we have to hear about the miseries of material existence—birth, disease, old age, and death. So we understand that actually we are not enjoying, therefore we should do something to get out of the suffering. And then we understand the way to get out of the suffering is to surrender to Krishna.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Devotee: [Unintelligible: 00:25:48]

Giriraj Swami: Alright, we don’t want to suffer. But if we don’t surrender to Krishna, we are forced to suffer. It we don’t want to suffer we have to surrender to Krishna. And on the positive side, we want eternal happiness. For happiness, we have to go to the eternal spiritual world. And if we want to go to the eternal spiritual world, we have to surrender to Krishna. So again, we are forced to surrender to Krishna. Yes.

Devotee: [Unintelligible: 00:27:37]

Giriraj Swami: There are two types of service, direct and indirect. For example, there is the education department and the criminal department. Both are government departments, but if we choose voluntarily to serve the government, we can become a teacher in the university. But if we choose to disobey the laws of the state, we are put in the prison. But the prison is also a department of the government. Even in the prison, we serve the government. Sometimes the prisoners are used to break stones and build roads and do other labor for the government. So the professor in the university is serving the government and the criminal in the prison is also serving the government. So what is the difference? There is a difference. What is the difference? So by serving the government in the university, one could be said to be doing direct service and by serving the government in the prison, one is doing indirect service. So when we serve Krishna through the spiritual master, we are engaged in direct service. In other words, we serve the spiritual master. We serve Srila Prabhupada, who is serving his spiritual masters, serving his spiritual masters and serving his spiritual master, and ultimately the service goes to Krishna. I may say that the guru is serving Krishna and maya is serving Krishna. So serving the guru and serving maya are the same because they are both serving Krishna. But the two are not the same. Because serving the servant of Krishna through paramparā is favorable devotional service, direct; and serving the material energy who is also Krishna’s service is indirect. So direct service brings liberation and eternal happiness and the indirect service of maya brings bondage and misery. So again we have the choice. We have to serve; by constitution, we have to serve. We can voluntarily serve the government in the university or in any other occupation. Or, we can defy the government and be forced to serve the government in prison. Yes.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:32:37]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I didn’t answer the question fully. I will rephrase the question. You are saying that even if someone surrenders to Krishna, he still has to suffer birth, disease, old age and death.

Yes, as long as we have the material body, we have to suffer birth, disease, old age, and death. But when we surrender to Krishna, we don’t have to accept another material body. And then there is no birth, disease, old age, and death. You may be a prisoner and surrender to the king and the king may pardon you and order the prison to release you. So there may be some formalities to be completed before the prisoner is released. Formalities are completed. He is still under the control of the prison, but very soon he will be released. And even though a devotee may undergo birth, disease, old age and death, he doesn’t suffer the same way as an ordinary person. Because an ordinary person identifies with the body or he suffers the pangs more severely. Srila Prabhupada gives the example that one car has a collision with another car. The driver of the other car jumps out of the car and starts to shouts, “You hit me, you hit me.” Why does he say “You hit me, you hit me?” The other person’s car hit the car. It didn’t actually hit the person. Because he identifies with the car, he says, “You hit me, you hit me.” So as long as we identify with the body, we feel the pains and the pleasures of the body as affecting me. When I realize I am not the body, then I know that the pains and pleasures of the body are not actually touching me, the soul. So I don’t feel the pains and pleasures in the same way as the ordinary person who identifies with the body. It is just a change of body. So for someone who identifies with the body death means the loss of everything. But for one who is engaged in the service of Krishna, death brings him the opportunity to serve the Lord directly in spiritual world. So superficially, two may appear to be same, because the devotee is also dying and materialist also dying.

Srila Prabhupada gives the example that the cat picks up the kitten in her jaws. The cat also picks up the rat in her jaws, her mouth. But for the kitten the jaws of the cat are a loving embrace. To the rat the jaws of the cat are death. So for an ordinary person death is horrible, but for a devotee death is wonderful. Death of a devotee will go to Krishna and serve Him. And once he goes to Krishna then there is no more material body and no more birth, death, old age and disease. Yes. Any other question or comment

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:37:51]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, Lord Chaitanya had one devotee named Sanatana Gosvami. He had the idea to commit suicide by giving up his body under the wheels of the chariot of Lord Jagannatha. And Lord Chaitanya, being the Omniscient Personality of God had understood the mind of Sanatana Gosvami. He told Sanatana that if I could attain Krishna by giving up this body, I would give up thousands and millions of bodies without any hesitation. One cannot achieve Krishna by such means. One can achieve Krishna only by devotional service. Therefore, you should remain in the body and engage in devotional service. Then he said that if someone gives something to another person, does he have the right to take it back or to destroy it? And he said, “You have already surrendered your body to me, so you don’t have the right to take it back or to destroy it. It doesn’t belong to you.” And Lord Chaitanya said, “I have many things which I want to achieve through your body. You should stay in your body and engage in devotional service. And in the end, you will go back home to back to Godhead.”

So, just like a prisoner is serving a term in prison. If he tries to escape from the prison before the sentence is over, he will be punished doubly. Time of trying to escape the prison. So we are destined to serve in the present body for some time. If we try to leave the body before the time is over, we have to suffer twice. We have to complete the time that we were meant to serve in the body. So I have to serve another sentence in another body for the crime of trying to escape the body. So as Srila Prabhupada says, we should make the best use of a bad bargain. The body is a bad bargain, but we should make the best use of it by engaging it in Krishna’s service. When we become perfect in Krishna’s service, then we won’t have to take another material body. A spiritual body like Krishna’s, which is suitable for serving Him in the spiritual world. Krishna says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti, that we can only be achieved by devotional service. So again, we have no choice.

Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: The question is related to daily life. [Unintelligible 00:41:40]

Giriraj Swami: He is saying that there is going to be a war. And everyone is going to die, so why put the children in school? Better prepare the children for the time of death by making them Krishna conscious.

It is a good idea. Death could come at any moment, so we should be prepared. And as parents, our duty is to make our children Krishna conscious, so they don’t have to take birth again. So we should do whatever we have to do to make them Krishna conscious.

Devotee: Are you going to stop there? No, because you gave the example of the children, just to reference an example of, in general, how we should act like if nothing was going to happen.

Giriraj Swami: No, we should know that death could come at any moment, and we should be ready. We should become fully Krishna conscious. If you are destined to die, you cannot escape death. If you are destined to die, and if you think that you will make a house under the ground, and stock it with food, and live under the ground so that you are not affected by the bombs, but you cannot escape death. If you are destined to die, you cannot escape death. Our godbrother, Ravindra Svarupa Prabhu, told a story from Persian literature, that once a rich man sent his servant into the bazaar in Baghdad. And while he was in the bazaar, while he was in the marketplace, he saw death personified, and he became very frightened. So he ran away back to the master, and he told the master what happened. So the servant decided to run away to Samara. Meanwhile, the master went into the market, and he saw death personified there. So he rebuked him. You jostled my servant, and you made menacing looks at him, and you frightened him. Why were you looking at him so menacingly? Death personified replied that, “I wasn’t looking at him in a menacing way. I was just surprised to see him in Baghdad this morning, because I have an appointment with him in Samara in the afternoon.”

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: We can take normal precautions. You are saying that the children are legally required to go to regular school, or any school in Spain which is approved.

Well, I am not saying you should take the children out of school. They used to prepare them for the time of death, by encouraging them in Krishna consciousness. And even if the war doesn’t come, and even if they don’t die in the war, it is still good if they become Krishna conscious. Krishna consciousness is better than any other alternative. Once a reporter asked Srila Prabhupada that, “You are doing everything for Krishna. You are traveling for Krishna, and you are speaking about Krishna, and you are looking for Krishna. You are doing everything for Krishna. But what if in the end, there is no Krishna?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “I wouldn’t do anything different. Because I like to talk about Krishna, I like to associate with the devotees of Krishna, I like to chant Hare Krishna, and I like to hear kṛṣṇa-kathā. So even if there is no Krishna, I wouldn’t do anything different.”

Because our life is actually very nice. But even if we think it is difficult, still Srila Prabhupada said that spiritual life is difficult, but material life is impossible. So from every point of view, it is better to serve Krishna. But just because in the beginning we don’t have much taste, we don’t get so much pleasure out of chanting and hearing. But by practicing and becoming purified, we get taste. And then we take pleasure in hearing and chanting and serving devotees. So we should avoid offenses, because if we commit offenses, even though we go on hearing and chanting, we won’t be able to relish the sweetness of it. But if we go on hearing and chanting and serving, and at least try to avoid the offenses, then we will be purified and we will be able to appreciate the process of devotional service more.

Devotee: If we go on hearing and chanting and at least try to avoid the offenses, we will be purified and we will be able to appreciate the process of devotional service more. It can be a long process. But sometimes it can be good, but sometimes we commit offenses and we realize we are committing offenses. And what one should do? When we hear chanting, we should commit more offenses, or not?

Giriraj Swami: Well we have to chant out sixteen rounds as matter of duty. So even if we are not done perfect, we have to complete our sixteen rounds. But if at a particular time your mind is preoccupied with something else and you really can’t chant properly, say if you are worried about some service or some relationship with someone, and it is disturbing your chanting, then you could maybe deal with the problem and then go back to your chanting. And maybe you will be able to concentrate on your chanting better then. But in principle, if one does commit offenses, you should still keep chanting. And by continuing chanting, you will become free from offense.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:53:19]

Giriraj Swami: Well, the best thing is to finish the rounds in the early morning. One might have some special service during the morning, but otherwise one should finish one’s rounds in morning. The best is to chant in the temple in front of the deity of Srila Prabhupada and Tulasi-devi and mist of the devotees. This time is set aside for chanting from ten o’clock or whatever time I can do service. If I hear and chant nicely, then my other service will go better. And Srila Prabhupada said if we don’t finish our rounds by ten in the morning, we will be an anxiety for the rest of the day. Chanting early will be better for chanting as well as for your service, because you won’t be in anxiety while you are doing your service. “Oh, I didn’t finish my rounds.”

Devotee: All of us have a time, little time, and then we die. So my question is, if we spend time, is it longer and shorter than the time of death? Not only for the devotees, but for everyone.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, everyone is allowed at certain duration of life. But if we surrender to Krishna, then Krishna takes charge. And He will arrange for our life and death in the best way for us. But in the case of ordinary persons, Lord Krishna does not interfere. He is God, He is all-powerful, but He doesn’t. Because Krishna is interested in devotees.

So, because it is already late, we won’t give a lecture, but first we will ask for questions, if any of you have any questions.

Devotee: What is the relationship among the devotees?

Giriraj Swami: In the beginning, when one is neophyte, one only considers the deity in the temple, guru. But when one becomes more advanced in devotional service. He recognizes other relationships. Of course, he gives his love to the spiritual master and to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He shows mercy to the innocent person and he stays away from the envious person. Srila Prabhupada wanted us all to act on the platform of preachers, and as preachers we deal differently with different categories of persons. Even among devotees, we may make distinction. Some devotees are in a superior position to us and some are in subordinate position. As superior we should feel happy. I should want to serve him and learn from him. When we find someone of an equal status we should want to establish friendship and when we deal with someone in a subordinate position we should be merciful to him and try to help him.

Just as there are proper relationships in different categories, there are also improper relationships. In the perverted relationship with the superior, instead of being happy to meet the superior and wanting to serve him, we become envious and want to bring him down. Similarly, when we meet someone of an equal status, when we are in materialistic mood we feel proud, we praise ourselves or boast about our activities to our friends. And similarly the perverted relationship with the subordinate is that we try to take advantage of the subordinate and exploit him. We try to use him or her for our own gratification. The very important part of advancing in Krishna consciousness is developing proper relationships with devotees and maintaining properly respectful relationships with devotees. The first offense against the holy name is to blaspheme devotees and Srila Bhaktivinoda explains that yes the negative prohibition is, we should not blaspheme devotees. But the part of positive injunction is that we should appreciate devotees, we should glorify devotees and we should serve devotees. Then our relationships will be very congenial and we will be able to make good advancements. If we find faults with devotees, we criticize devotees, if we give trouble to devotees, then we become implicated in offenses. And when we commit offenses we cannot make advancement in spiritual life.

In fact, the result of committing offenses is that one becomes overwhelmed by material desires. Material desires for enjoying sense gratification or even for merging and becoming one with God. Both are considered material desires. So we should be very careful when we deal with each other, to always be respectful and to appreciate the service of the other devotees; to praise the other devotees for the service of the other devotees and to serve the other devotees. This is the highest. In Padma-Purana, Lord Shiva tell Parvati, ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ viṣṇor ārādhanaṁ param. That of all types of worship the worship of Vishnu is the highest. Tasmāt parataraṁ devi tadīyānāṁ samarcanam [Cc. Madhya 11.31]. And even higher than the worship of Vishnu is the worship of Vishnu’s devotees. So the worship of the devotees in the service of the devotees is the highest perfection.

Similarly, Lord Chaitanya declared I am not a brahman, I am not kshatriya I am not a vaishya, I am not a sudra, I am not a brahmachari, I am not a grihastha, I am not a vanaprastha, I am not a sannyasi. Then what are you? Gopī bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc Madhya 13.80]. I am the servant, of the servant, of the servant of Krishna. And Lord Chaitanya was happy to be the servant of the servants. Spiritual master servant of the other servants. He even took pleasure in becoming the servant of his own servants. And as he showed that the highest service is the service of the devotees. And devotees have different aspects; they have their souls, they have their minds, they have their bodies, they acted to give satisfaction to the devotees on every level. He served the souls of the devotees by helping them develop Krishna consciousness. He served the minds of the devotees with his affectionate words and gestures. And he served the bodies of the devotees when they came to Puri by arranging for their accommodations, for their prasāda, and all of their needs when they were in Puri. So we should also try to help the other devotees in every respect and if we do so Krishna will be more pleased with us than if we were to try to serve Krishna or please Krishna directly. And if we offend the devotees, we give more pain to Krishna than if we were to offend Him directly. Be careful when we deal with devotees. Even if they are neophyte they are still to be considered devotees. They are engaged in chanting the holy names of Krishna even if they don’t have all the twenty-six qualities of devotees. But if they have the one quality of taking shelter of Krishna and chanting the holy name of Krishna, they are considered devotees. And they should be served and appreciated. On the other hand, if one has all the other twenty-five qualities but if he doesn’t have the one quality of taking shelter of Krishna and chanting the holy name of Krishna, he is not to be considered a devotee. And the other qualities have no special significance.

Coming from the material world, we have so many bad habits but we should not find fault with the other devotees. What to speak of abusing in any subtle or gross way. And unless we can develop proper harmonious relationships with the other devotees and learn to work together to spread Krishna consciousness as Srila Prabhupada desired, we cannot make any advancements. So we should not fight with each other. We should see each other as devotees to be served or helped in service to Srila Prabhupada. Once a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada how the relationships among the devotees could be improved. And Srila Prabhupada replied that if each devotee considers himself to be the servant of the servant, then the relationships will be very congenial. So in our society we have to develop the culture of appreciating devotees and serving devotees or collectively we will not be able to make much progress. Hare Krishna.

Devotee 10: [Unintelligible 01:07:37]

Giriraj Swami: Mukunda is asking, how does one progress from kaniṣṭhā to madhyam in devotional service.

Of course by chanting the holy names and following the regulative principles without offense we will naturally make advancement. But at the same time we can also make an effort to act on the higher level, by giving our love to Krishna, by making friendship with devotees, mercy to innocent persons by helping them in Krishna consciousness and by avoiding envious persons. And we have to be able to recognize who is a devotee, who is an innocent person, and who is envious person. That is whole other topic. But today we gave a brief idea of how to recognize the devotees.

Preaching doesn’t just mean by one’s words it also means by one’s actions. We should preach in such a way that people are attracted to Krishna consciousness. Sometimes students come to the association of devotees and at least in India and other places we don’t discourage the students to leave their studies to join the temple. We generally encourage them to finish their studies. And sometimes they think what is the relationship between their studies and devotional service. But if the students do well in their studies then people are impressed. “He is a devotee and he came first in the class. So Krishna consciousness must be very good.” Besides, the children wonder what is the relationship with their parents. We encourage the children to deal nicely with the parents. Then the parents will be impressed. Through Krishna consciousness, my child has become so well behaved, so polite, so respectful, so submissive. They get a good impression of Krishna consciousness. If the students do well in school, then the other students and the teachers get a good impression of Krishna consciousness. So this is also showing mercy to the innocent; acting in such a way that innocent people get a good impression of Krishna consciousness. Acting in ways that will give people a bad impression of Krishna consciousness. Because it is not a question of whether we are right and they are wrong. It is a question of how we can attract them to devotional service. If we can attract them to devotional service, we are successful. So we should always behave very nicely, even with the public, with our family members, with the teachers in school, or with the other students in school. We should be on such a way that they get a good impression of Krishna consciousness.

Any other questions?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:13:05]

Giriraj Swami: She says that according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam actually, if one is engaged in chanting the holy names of the Lord, it is understood that you have studied all the Vedas, taken bath in the holy rivers, visited the sacred places, and so on. So she is asking if the same is true of persons of low birth who are engaged in chanting the holy names.

Answer is yes, example is Haridasa Thakura. Haridasa Thakura was born in a Muslim family, which is considered a low birth from the point of view of Vedic civilization and culture. But still Advaita Acharya who was born in a high brahman family offered Haridasa Thakura the first plate in the sraddha ceremony. The first place in the ceremony is supposed to be offered to some high-class brahman. So when Advaita Acharya offered the first plate to Haridasa Thakura, Haridasa Thakura objected that it should be offered to a brahman. And the Acharya replied that by serving you I am serving millions of brahmans. So one who is engaged in chanting the holy names of Krishna is considered to fulfill all other Vedic process, a high class brahman. But Haridasa Thakura wasn’t thinking that I am a devotee I am higher than a brahman. In fact Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura used to say—One who consider himself as a Vaishnava is not a Vaishnava. So we shouldn’t be proud that “I am a devotee. You should serve me; if you serve me you are serving millions of brahman.” That is not the mood of devotee. The mood of devotee is “Why are you offering me? You should be offering to a brahman. I am not a brahman. Why are you offering to me?” Humble.

Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:16:43]

Giriraj Swami: Even people who chant the holy name but they are not able to chant purely like Haridasa Thakura, even they don’t need to study the Vedas or take baths in the sacred rivers or visit the holy places. They simply have to continue to chant the holy name. And by continuous chanting of the holy names they will become free from offenses. Of course, they should try to avoid the offenses. If someone is chanting Hare Krishna and thinks Well I can commit offenses and by chanting I will become free from the reactions, that is the greatest offence. But if we try our best not to commit offenses and at the same time chant the holy name, then gradually we will become purified.

Any other questions or comments?

Thank you very much.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada