SB 1.8.1 – Understanding Srila Prabhupada’s Instructions

Giriraj Swami:  

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto One; Chapter Eight; Text One. Chapter entitled “Prayers by Queen Kunti.”

sūta uvāca
atha te samparetānāṁ
svānām udakam icchatām
dātuṁ sakṛṣṇā gaṅgāyāṁ
puraskṛtya yayuḥ striyaḥ

TRANSLATION

Sūta Gosvāmī said: Thereafter the Pāṇḍavas, desiring to deliver water to the dead relatives who had desired it, went to the Ganges with Draupadī. The ladies walked in front.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada.

To date it is the custom in Hindu society to go to the Ganges or any other sacred river to take bath when death occurs in the family. Each of the family members pours out a potful of the Ganges water for the departed soul and walks in a procession, with the ladies in the front. The Pāṇḍavas also followed the rules more than five thousand years ago. Lord Kṛṣṇa, being a cousin of the Pāṇḍavas, was also amongst the family members.

TEXT 2

te ninīyodakaṁ sarve
vilapya ca bhṛśaṁ punaḥ
āplutā hari-pādābja-
rajaḥ-pūta-sarij-jale

TRANSLATION

Having lamented over them and sufficiently offered Ganges water, they bathed in the Ganges, whose water is sanctified due to being mixed with the dust of the lotus feet of the Lord.

TEXT 3

tatrāsīnaṁ kuru-patiṁ
dhṛtarāṣṭraṁ sahānujam
gāndhārīṁ putra-śokārtāṁ
pṛthāṁ kṛṣṇāṁ ca mādhavaḥ

TRANSLATION

There sat the King of the Kurus, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, along with his younger brothers and Dhṛtarāṣṭra, Gāndhārī, Kuntī and Draupadī, all overwhelmed with grief. Lord Kṛṣṇa was also there.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada.

The Battle of Kurukṣetra was fought between family members, and thus all affected persons were also family members like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and brothers, Kuntī, Draupadī, Subhadrā, Dhṛtarāṣṭra, Gāndhārī and her daughters-in-law, etc. All the principal dead bodies were in some way or other related with each other, and therefore the family grief was combined. Lord Kṛṣṇa was also one of them as a cousin of the Pāṇḍavas and nephew of Kuntī, as well as brother of Subhadrā, etc. The Lord, therefore, was equally sympathetic toward all of them, and therefore He began to pacify them befittingly.

COMMENT

So we can hardly imagine the grief of the members of the Kuru Dynasty after the battle of Kurukshetra. Practically, all the men on both sides were killed, and seeing the grief of the other family members would naturally make the other family members feel more grief-stricken. So everyone practically was mourning for everyone, because all were the members of the same family. And Lord Krishna, being related also to the Pandavas, and consequently, to the Kurus, was also present. Of course, Lord Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and therefore, He is equal to all the living entities. He is the supreme father of all the living entities. But during His pastimes on Earth, He also had His family, and He was related to the Pandavas, being the cousin of Yudhisthira and Arjuna; being, basically, the nephew of Queen Kunti, who was the sister of Vasudeva, who was the father of Lord Krishna.

So Lord Krishna was equally sympathetic to all. But someone may question that Lord Krishna took the side of Arjuna against the Kauravas, so actually, He was partial to the Pandavas. But in the purport, Srila Prabhupada states that Lord Krishna was equally sympathetic to all members of the family. Lord Krishna did encourage the Pandavas to fight. He did desire the Pandavas to rule, but not because of any mundane partiality. He wanted the Pandavas to rule, first, because they were the rightful heirs to the throne, and second, because they were devotees, and the Lord wanted devotees to rule over the population. But still, He was sympathetic to all. Although during the battle he gave so many hints to Arjuna how to be successful over the enemy, but still within His heart, He was equally sympathetic of all who mourned.

Reading the verse and purport made me think of ISKCON. How painful fighting within the family can be. Srila Prabhupada also said that nothing can stop the movement from outside. Only we can stop the movement from inside if we fight among ourselves. And therefore, one of Srila Prabhupada’s most important instructions at the end was that we should cooperate together, and our love for him will be shown by how we cooperate together to preserve ISKCON. Just days before Srila Prabhupada left, one of Srila Prabhupada’s friends, who was an elderly devotee, told Srila Prabhupada that he should tell his disciples not to work with personal ambition. At the time, Srila Prabhupada was lying on his bed and was very weak, but he moved his hand as if to gesture to his disciples, and told them, “Don’t fight. I have given direction in my books.” So, Srila Prabhupada desires that we should cooperate; that we should not fight. But on what basis should we cooperate? We should cooperate on the basis of his instructions, and specifically he mentioned the instructions in his books.

So at present, there appears to be many different opinions on many different subjects. But are the different opinions supported by Srila Prabhupada’s books? Take, for example, the guru issue. There are many opinions of the guru issue. But how many opinions are supported by Srila Prabhupada’s books? The description of the relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple is explained again and again in Srila Prabhupada’s books. In fact, many years ago, Virabahu Prabhu compiled a volume with quotations from Srila Prabhupada’s books and talks entitled, The Guru and What Prabhupada Said, because Srila Prabhupada said so much about the guru, and if we just take instruction from Srila Prabhupada, we should be able to understand the philosophy quite clearly. And similarly, Srila Prabhupada gave so many instructions on so many topics, and when he wanted to explain a topic clearly, he explained it clearly and thoroughly. He left very little doubt as to what his desire was. But sometimes, even during Srila Prabhupada’s presence, disciples were not so aware of what Srila Prabhupada wanted, because of lack of his association or lack of communication. And therefore, our first and foremost duty as members of ISKCON and followers of Srila Prabhupada is to understand Srila Prabhupada’s desires.

Now, of course, there are many persons who claim to be followers of Srila Prabhupada, and they may actually be followers of Srila Prabhupada to some extent, but who have different opinions. So again, the question arises how to relate to them? How to reciprocate with them? So, I thought of one instance during Srila Prabhupada’s presence that bore some similarities to the present situation. Srila Prabhupada had one disciple named Siddhasvarupananda, and Siddhasvarupananada had actually been a sort of guru before he met Srila Prabhupada. He had a following in Hawaii, and he and his followers chanted Hare Krishna, and they did hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, and they did many of the same things that the ISKCON devotees did. But they were not as connected to Srila Prabhupada directly. And they were the first group of Gaudiya Vaishnavas in the West outside of ISKCON. So their situation was quite peculiar.

Anyway, eventually, Sai—which was his name before he was initiated—eventually, Sai came to surrender to Srila Prabhupada, [coughing; inaudible 00:16:44] his followers. And Srila Prabhupada initiated him and gave him the name Svarupa. And after some time, Srila Prabhupada gave him sannyasa and the name Siddhasvarupananda. After some time, Siddhasvarupananda began to drift away from the general devotees in ISKCON, and he returned to his old style of preaching, which was Krishna conscious, but which was somewhat different from the way the main followers of Srila Prabhupada were preaching and how to follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions. And how Srila Prabhupada dealt with the situation is very interesting. Just to dramatize the situation, in Srila Prabhupada’s last days, Hari Sauri Prabhu, who was then GBC for Australia and New Zealand, came to Vrindavana to spend some time with Srila Prabhupada. And he asked Srila Prabhupada, “Is Siddhasvarupa bonafide? Are he and his followers bonafide?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “No. They are not bonafide.” And then, Hari Sauri Prabhu asked, “Well, Srila Prabhupada, you write them such wonderful letters. Devotees will become confused. Why do you write them such favorable letters?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “They are chanting Hare Krishna, so I want to encourage them.” 

So, we see Srila Prabhupada’s acting in two ways. In relation to Siddhasvarupananda and his followers, he was encouraging them. But in relation to Srila Prabhupada’s own disciples, he was criticizing Siddhasvarupananda and his followers and attempting to protect—Srila Prabhupada was attempting to protect his own disciples [Break] [from being influenced?] by Siddhasvarupananada’s ways.

Now, what was actually the difference—because they were all chanting Hare Krishna; they were all preaching Krishna consciousness – What was the difference? So the differences were quite subtle, in a way. Siddhasvarupananda preached that we should pay more attention to developing Vaishnava qualities, like mercy. We should spend more time doing kirtan, and less time distributing books, especially because so many persons had been offended by the book distribution. So, one of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, Bhurijana Prabhu, very nice devotee and his wife, Jagattarini Mataji, they had been living in Hong Kong, and were quite isolated from the rest of ISKCON. And almost the only association they got was from Siddhasvarupananda and company. So, somehow they became influenced by Siddhasvarupananda. And later, Srila Prabhupada had a discussion with Jagattarini Mataji and asked, “What is the problem? What are the differences?” and so on. So Jagattarini Mataji said that, well, she found the presentation of Krishna consciousness by Siddhasvarupananda to be very clear.

So sometime later, Srila Prabhupada called in Bhurijana Prabhu and asked, “What is that clear? What is clear about them that is not clear about the other devotees in  ISKCON?” So I thought I would read from Srila Prabhupada’s—[Break; mic interference 00:21:42–50]—because the instructions are very relevant and important. Actually, when I was looking up the section that I wanted to read in the class, I happened to open to another section which also seemed interesting, so I will read it. The section is called, Initiation Within the Heart.

READING from Initiation Within the Heart

Questioner: Srila Prabhupada, does a disciple first accept his spiritual master within the heart when he takes initiation?

Devotee: What is the question, again?

Questioner: When a disciple takes initiation, does he first take initiation in the heart?

Prabhupada: Initiation is the third stage. First stage is. . .Just like you have come. This is called sraddha, a little faith, not full faith. Then you have to increase this faith by association of devotees. That is required. And when the faith is increased, then the question of initiation. Initiation should not be immediately offered. That will be misused. Therefore, when we initiate, we inquire from the head of the temple, “How long he is coming? What is his behavior?” If he certifies that, “Yes, he is doing nice.” Then, we initiate. Our initiation is not so cheap, “You come and be initiated.” No, [Break][we do not do that.] We must test you first of all. Then we initiate.

Madhudvisa: His question was that can you take initiation by accepting the spiritual master in your heart without actually taking-

Prabhupada: This is bogus proposition. It has no meaning. It has no meaning. If you think within yourself, “I am eating,” will you be satisfied? You starve and simply think, “I have eaten everything.” Is that very practical proposal? You must eat. We don’t say all these bogus propositions. Alright. Thank you very much.

COMMENT

And Bhurijana Prabhu comments:

READING continued

Prabhupada’s answer to Madhudvisa’s question is extremely significant and relevant. Madhuvisa asked whether a devotee could forego the initiation ceremony if he had already mentally accepted his spiritual master. Prabhupada’s reply is clear and uncompromising, “This is bogus proposition. We don’t say all these bonus propositions.”

Someone may mentally accept a guru or may even accept him within his whole heart, but if he avoids actually taking initiation, his acceptance is insufficient. Prabhupada’s example about eating mentally is brilliant. If initiation can also be complete by our mentally accepting a guru, the guru is not given the choice to accept or not to accept the disciple. Prabhupada always ascribed an importance to the initiation ceremony in which both guru and disciples formally accepted the mutual responsibilities of their relationship, and he insisted that a fire sacrifice be performed even after initiations were given through the mail.

COMMENT

So initiation is a mutual agreement between the spiritual master and the disciple. There is one instance in Mahābhārata where one student, Eklavya, accepted Dronacarya as teacher, but Dronacarya did not accept him. And although by worshiping Dronacarya, he got powers in archery, but in the end, he had to give dakshina to Dronacarya, who was the guru. And Dronacarya said, “As dakshina, you give me your thumb.” And he gave him his thumb which meant he could no longer hold the bow and arrows. So it is not just that one accepts someone as spiritual master. “Oh, I accept Srila Prabhupada as my spiritual master.” Very good. But does Srila Prabhupada accept you as his disciple? Can you say that Srila Prabhupada  say that? If he initiated you, yes. But, if he hasn’t initiated you, can you say that Srila Prabhupada has accepted you as his disciple and on what basis? So here, Srila Prabhupada says, “We do not accept such bogus propositions.” Now coming to the discussion.

READING continued

Srila Prabhupada asked for Bhurijana Prabhu to come in his room to meet him, and Bhurijana came and cooperated.

Bhurijana: Would you like me to do anything? What would you like me to do? I know I don’t want to be independent.

Prabhupada: Why are you inclined to follow Siddhasvarupa? What is your special attraction?

Bhurijana: While we were in Hong Kong, we couldn’t always be corresponding with you. I needed some personal instruction.

Prabhupada: But what is this special attraction? Your wife said that their instruction is very clear, so what is the distinction between clear and ambiguous? What do you find ambiguous? What do you find clear? What is that?

Bhurijana: I think the part I found clear [is] the more introspective points about humility and changing one’s desires.

Prabhupada: Humility means not to follow the instruction of guru?

COMMENT

Because Prabhupada had given instructions, clear instructions. So, in the name of humility can one neglect the instructions of guru?

READING continued

Bhurijana: No, that is not humility.

Prabhupada: I am asking you what is the special attraction? What is clear and ambiguous?

Bhurijana: The clearness may be a deeper understanding to want to be humble; a deeper understanding to want to qualify.

Prabhupada: Humble? But if you do not follow your spiritual master’s instruction, you follow others, then where is the humbleness? Your wife says that what Siddhasvarupa says is very clear and others are not so clear. Is it not? What is that clear, and what is not clear?

Bhurijana: He says chant Hare Krishna.

Prabhupada: So who says that you don’t chant?

Bhurijana: Maybe the emphasis of others isn’t so much on chanting. Everyone says, harer nama, harer nama, harer nama eva kevalam, but everyone only chants their sixteen rounds a day. Chants half an hour āratiin the evening, and half an hour āratiin the morning.

Prabhupada: So, what do you want more? What is your program? Twenty-four hours?

Bhurijana: No. [Break] I like more kirtan than that.

Then Srila Prabhupada comes to a deeper point that Bhurijana Prabhu did not actually admit to.

Prabhupada: So you don’t like to sell books. [laughter]

Bhurijana: No, I think I like very much. I mean, I think I would like to.

Prabhupada: So what is the difference?

Bhurijana: Between selling books and kirtan?

Prabhupada: No, no. Between others and you. Where is the difference?

Because Bhurijana was feeling estranged from the rest of the devotees in ISKCON, from the general devotees in ISKCON, so Prabhupada was saying, “What is the difference between you and them? Why do you feel estranged from them?“

Bhurijana: Well, maybe the point about more kirtan or less kirtan.

Prabhupada: So if you chant more, they are objecting?

Bhurijana: No.

Prabhupada: Then where is the difference? Has anyone objected if you chant more?

Bhurijana: No.

[Break]

Bhurijana: But [00:32:23] ?  Pandita says that is given is chanting. For myself, I know that, in my heart, I built up an enmity towards your disciples in thinking that by their distributing books they were making people angry at Krishna.

Prabhupada: That is the difficult point. That is the difficult point.

COMMENT

And Bhurijana Prabhu explains:

READING continued

I was in Japan and Hong Kong from 1970 to 1974, and then went outside of mainstream ISKCON from 1974 to 1976. During these foundational years of ISKCON, Prabhupada was making his desires about book distribution known.

Even as I sat at Prabhupada’s feet on the balcony outside his room in ISKCON Hawaii, I was unaware of the depth of Prabhupada’s desire that his disciples distribute his books. But by his pushing me to analyze the actual difference, that actually came out. The difference between how the inside and the outside factions were prosecuting Krishna consciousness was the emphasis on book distribution, or deeper than that, the depth of surrender to Prabhupada’s order to distribute them.

Bhurijana: That is what I felt. When I was in Hong Kong, people I would meet they used to yell. They would yell at me, “What have you done to Krishna?” Some Indians used to say that. People we would meet, they would tell us they see the Hare Krishna devotees, and they hate Krishna. I remember one specific time when I was speaking to one businessman who was helping us-

Prabhupada: He said that “We hate Krishna”?

Bhurijana: No, no. He said that, “You members of the Hare Krishna, they are making people in Australia hate Krishna. They make people inimical.” Making people inimical to Krishna.

Pusta Krishna: Their argument is that because of our strong emphasis on preaching and book distribution, they say, therefore, that the mass of people have a bad impression of Krishna.

[Break]

Prabhupada: Because we are selling books.

Bhurijana: Not so much the selling of books. Maybe because of the emphasis on how much money can be taken. Like, if someone says on the street, “Please give me a donation.” So they gave him a donation. “No, you must give more and more and more.” So the people think that the devotees are only interested in getting money, and they get a bad impression that ISKCON is a money-making movement.

Pusta Krishna: We are selling one half million large-sized books every year.

Prabhupada: That is envious. So if they sell books, so that is making Krishna unpopular?

Bhurijana: But one must learn to be a good book salesman, I think.

Prabhupada: But selling book about Krishna, does it mean that the booksellers are creating unpopular opinions? Does it mean?

Bhurijana: Automatically, no.

Prabhupada: When you say that they are making enemies because they are pushing this, what is wrong there? Actually, I can so far understand that you do not like to sell books or you cannot sell books.

Bhurijana: I have never really tried so much.

Prabhupada: Those who are selling books, do you think of them as they are not very advanced?

Bhurijana: I don’t think that they can continue for a very long time if they are not advanced.

Prabhupada: But actually, they are doing. So why do you say they cannot continue long?

COMMENT

So, Siddhasvarupa’s idea was very romantic or sentimental, that devotees should be very loving and humble. And once he said to Srila Prabhupada,—and he always – I mean, obviously, a little bit of sahajjya tendency—So once, he said to Srila Prabhupada that, “One thing I can’t stand about your disciples is they are always in anxiety.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “That is their love. The gopīs were always in anxiety for Krishna.”

Devotees: Jaya!

Giriraj Swami: Anyway, there is quite an elaborate discussion about book distribution. And Bhurijana Prabhu says how he was disturbed by the techniques of the book distributors, not by book distribution in itself, and how that sometimes the devotees would tell lies to sell the books. And Srila Prabhupada explained that sometimes the father will tell a lie to the child for the benefit of the child. He gave the example that the father will tell the child that if you take this medicine, I will give you a cake. Now in the end, we don’t know whether the father will actually give him the cake or not, but the point is that the child should take the medicine. The medicine is good for the child.

Like, just recently in Santa Barbara, I know this is a popular example, but my sister—former sister’s son told her that you told me that if I learn—I think to ride a bicycle—if I learn to ride a bicycle over the summer, you will give me $50. So she said, “I don’t remember.” So, whether she will actually give him the $50 or not, whether he would know what to do with the $50 or not is another question. But the point that Srila Prabhupada was making is that even if a father supposedly tells a lie for the benefit of the child, it is not a fault, because it is for the benefit of the child.

READING continued

Prabhupada: Just like sometimes the father’s child is suffering from fever. So the father wants that the child may take the medicine and promises, “You take the medicine; I will give you this cake.” The purpose is not to give the cake, actually. The purpose is the child may take the medicine. But when the father promises, “If you take the medicine, I will give you the cake.” But the cake is dangerous for the child who is suffering from fever, but still the father allures him. “If you take the medicine, I will give you cake.” So the father is wrong?

Bhurijana: No.

Prabhupada: Similarly, if somehow or other, one can sell one book to a person it is good for him. Don’t take how he is selling, but he is giving the book, and the person is paying something. That is good. But big moralists, they cannot understand. They will see, “Why the father has spoken lie to his son? He is not a good father.” They will mistake. Father is always friend. Father cannot be enemy. But for the benefit of the rascal child, sometimes he has to say like. That “If you take the medicine, I will give you cake.”

Those who are mundane moralists, they cannot understand, because they are on the mundane platform. Another example is Yudhisthira Maharaja.

COMMENT

It is very interesting, because just earlier in the week, one new devotee from Laguna Beach met me here and raised the same question, that how could Krishna tell Maharaja Yudhisthira to lie? The same question. She was having doubts.

READING continued

Prabhupada: He was asked by Krishna, “You speak a lie to Dronacarya, “Your son is dead.” Yudhisthira Maharaja refused. For this he had to see hell. He was more a moralist than Krishna. For this moral activity he has to visit hell.

COMMENT

So of course, we also have to be expert and judge according to time, place, and circumstances. Just like salt in a small proportion is good, but if there is too much salt in a preparation, then it will be spoiled. So similarly, a little lying may be alright, but if you take it too far you could actually cause a disturbance. And Srila Prabhupada always said, “You judge by the results.” So at the time, hundreds of thousands of books were going out, and Srila Prabhupada was pleased by the result. But if it is at a certain stage we find that public is becoming antagonized and they don’t want to take the books, then we may have to change the approach. But here, Srila Prabhupada’s point was different, and I don’t want to go too long, but here Srila Prabhupada’s point was that even if they are not distributing the books properly you cannot give up the instruction to distribute books. If you think you can distribute the books better, then distribute in a better way, but you cannot give up the instruction of the spiritual master to distribute books. And Siddhasvarupa was taking the position that book distribution has antagonized people, so we should rather just be friendly and nice to people and not distribute books. And Srila Prabhupada was hitting on the point that the order of the guru is to distribute books, and you must follow the order of the guru. Maybe you can follow better than them, maybe they can follow better than they are, but you cannot give up the order of the guru.

So the conclusion.

READING continued

Prabhupada: They should follow what their spiritual master says. Book selling: there is no question of moral and immoral. They must sell. Just like in fighting. When there is fight, the soldiers, to gain victory, there is no question of moral and immoral.

Bhurijana: Srila Prabhupada, but I think the thing I understand least is that if they are not doing what you want. . .I mean. . .I am sitting before you now and you are telling me and I am listening, and you are my spiritual master. I must accept.

COMMENT

So then he gave up all his arguments, and just accepted.

So coming back to the original point, Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are clear about guru, about book distribution, about ISKCON, about GBC. His instructions are clear, and we as disciples of Srila Prabhupada, or anyhow, followers of Srila Prabhupada, must follow. We must follow. If we think that some of the other followers are not following in the best way, then we can follow better. If we are able, we can follow better. But we cannot give up following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions because others in the attempt to follow may have made mistakes or committed abuses. So we have to follow. But then, what about the other people? They are also disciples of Srila Prabhupada, and they also may claim that they are following Srila Prabhupada. Although we know they are not according to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions, but they actually may think they are. So how do we deal with them? So I feel that the example Srila Prabhupada gave was to encourage them. If they are chanting Hare Krishna, he wanted to encourage them to continue to chant, at least. But he did not want their contrary influence to enter ISKCON or to affect the devotees in ISKCON who are trying to follow the instructions that [Break] [00:46:18]

So, it is quite a delicate issue. One thing I saw about Srila Prabhupada was that even though he differed with someone on philosophy, but if they were friendly to him on a personal level, he would be friendly to them on a personal level. Like only once where in Srila Prabhupada’s presence did I spend any time in Los Angeles. After I had become very sick in India with jaundice and had a relapse, Srila Prabhupada said I should come to Los Angeles. Actually Tamal Krishna Goswami was trying to get me to stay in India. And Srila Prabhupada had told him to give me rasagullās which would be good for my strength, and maybe they are even good for the liver. But anyway, he told him to provide rasagullās for me, and he never did. So eventually, I wasn’t able to come to Srila Prabhupada, because I was so sick. But one day, I managed to come to Srila Prabhupada’s room, and Tamal Krishna Goswami was there. And Srila Prabhupada was saying that he was going to send me to Los Angeles. And Tamal Krishna Goswami was saying, “We need him in India.” And Srila Prabhupada said to Goswami Maharaja that, “Karandhara will provide him rasagullā which you cannot.” [laughter]

So I came, and I spent a few weeks here. And one day, Srila Prabhupada was in his garden, and he was speaking very informally to some devotees. So he was reminiscing. No, actually he was saying how so many of the swamis and gurus in India are actually very much involved in sinful activities. And he said that he knows many of them; how they are implicated in sinful activities. So he said that what he writes in his books about persons outside Krishna consciousness not having the higher taste, falling down into abominable activities, it is not just based on theory, but it is actually based on his experiences with them in India. And then, he told about Dr. Mishra. You probably know from Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta, or otherwise, that Srila Prabhupada visited the yoga ashrama of Dr. Mishra. So Srila Prabhupada told us, in the garden here, that once he went to use the bathroom in Dr. Mishra’s ashrama, and Dr. Mishra was coming out of the bathroom, and he was smelling of ganja, of marijuana.

So, Srila Prabhupada said he had his own personal experience with them. But then he said how much Dr. Mishra loved him as a friend, and how Srila Prabhupada reciprocated with him as a friend, and he used to cook for him when Dr. Mishra was sick. And Dr. Mishra actually felt that Srila Prabhupada’s cooking had nurtured him back to life. So I saw also in Srila Prabhupada’s dealings with other persons that if personally they were friendly to him, he would be friendly to them even if they differed on philosophy. And when the time to discuss philosophy came, Prabhupada would become ferocious. He would fight like anything on the basis of philosophy. But after the discussion was over, as long as they were friendly to him he would reciprocate and be friendly to them. And it was very wonderful to see them friendly, then, they would argue about philosophy, especially impersonalism or whatever, and then again they would be friends.

And Srila Prabhupada gave the example that two lawyers may be friends, but when they are in the courtroom they may be arguing very vehemently on other sides of the case. But then when they are out of the courtroom, again they are friends, and they eat together, and enjoy together. So I think, although we may differ philosophically with some of the devotees who have left ISKCON, or who may claim that they are a part of ISKCON, but they just have a broader definition of what ISKCON is, if they are friendly to us on a personal basis, we can be friendly to them. But when it is a question of Prabhupada’s instructions, we have to speak the truth. And if they are not friendly, then we should be careful. Srila Prabhupada used to quote the Chanakya maxim, that if someone is very honest and straightforward with you, you should be most honest and straight forward with them; and if someone is very cunning with you, you should be more cunning than they are. In fact, Srila Prabhupada told one of the managers that when people get finished dealing with us they should go and tell their friends that these Hare Krishnas may look like fools, but they are not fools. They are very intelligent. Don’t mess with them. [laughter]

So [Break 00:53:01] [Srila Prabhupada] has given us a great legacy in his instructions and in ISKCON, and our duty is to try to understand his legacy, understand his instructions, understand his mission, understand the way he dealt with people, how he was equal to everyone, yet partial to those who surrendered to him, how he encouraged everyone, and at the same time, protected his disciples from those who are not strictly following. Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. . .Question?

Devotee: Maharaja, while [Inaudible 00:53:47] I overheard devotees saying that Vaishnavism has always flourished after revolution, and [laughter] ?  the philosophy, I think that, well, I guess the revolution is that [Unintelligible 00:54:03] of ISKCON. I guess that is their premises(?) But, has Vaishnavism flourished after revolution? I don’t have the history.

Giriraj Swami: While gardening, he overheard someone say that Vaishnavism has always flourished after revolution, hinting that they were planning on making some revolutions so that Vaishnavism could flourish. So he is asked me is it true.

Well, Vaishnavism flourishes where there is purity in Krishna consciousness. Once there was an attempted revolution in Mayapur, and maybe it wasn’t based completely on Krishna consciousness. So Srila Prabhupada commented. . .Well, there was a resolution, and there was a revolution against the resolution, so Srila Prabhupada commented, “Resolution; revolution”—and one other thing. . .

Devotee: No solution.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that was the last thing that [Inaudible 00:55:17]. . .Yes. . .

Devotee: [Inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: “Resolution; revolution; dissolution; but no solution.” [laughter] In the end, the solution came when Srila Prabhupada gave the solution on the basis of Krishna consciousness. So, the solution will come on the basis of Krishna consciousness; on the basis of Srila Prabhupada. And there is the revolution—is not really supported by Srila Prabhupada; there will be no solution. Svavasa Prabhu.

Svavasa: Maharaja, you were saying that there is people that have a different philosophy, and they are friendly towards us; we should be friendly towards them, but when it came to speaking about that philosophy, we should be like Prabhupada, ferocious.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Svavasa: So it comes down to that we know that there are sometimes devotees that believe in the ritvik philosophy, and they actually come to the temple here, and we know that they believe in the ritvik philosophy. Should we be nice to them?

Giriraj Swami: The basic question is, why do they come? If they come to propagate the ritvik theory, I would say that we should not entertain them, because the essence of Krishna consciousness is faith in guru. The beginning of Krishna consciousness is faith in guru, ādau śraddhā,  ādau guru-pādāśraya. And if people are going to undermine the very basis of advancement in Krishna consciousness, which is faith in guru, particularly, I think we should not entertain them, because they are going against everything that we, or Srila Prabhupada through us, are trying to accomplish. And the unfortunate part of the ritvik theory is that the main support of their theory comes from their criticism of the leaders of ISKCON, which is completely counterproductive, to say the least. And to hear offenses against devotees is itself an offense. In fact, The Nectar of Devotion explains that if someone is blaspheming the Lord or some devotee of the Lord we are not allowed [Break] (to) just meekly listen to what they say, but we are bound by the injunction of shastra either to defeat the person in argument or to leave the place, and not allow for us to be weak and humble and listen to them blaspheme.

So, okay. Someone has a different theory, they can discuss it. But it appears that the basis of the ritvik argument is the idea that the ISKCON leaders are not qualified to be regular gurus, and therefore, some new theory is required to adjust the situation. So they are going to support themselves by criticizing the spiritual leaders of ISKCON, which means what they want to do is break the devotee’s faith in the ISKCON leaders, which is intolerable. The Nectar of Devotion says explicitly, we should not tolerate. Yes.

Devotee: Prabhu, we may be acting on an emotional level, not on the Vaishnava level. [Inaudible 00:59:32]

Giriraj Swami: You are saying that they may be speaking on the basis of emotion.

Devotee: Emotion [Unintelligible 00:59:54]

Giriraj Swami: Yes. You are saying that if we present the philosophy, they should surrender.

Devotee: Showing the difference between emotionalism and, of course, Vaishnavism, that they should adopt Vaishnavism and let emotionalism go.

Giriraj Swami: Very good proposal. [laughter] Very good proposal.

Devotee: Just regarding that, yes, it may have a basis in emotionalism, but emotion is often supported by lots of hard reasons, and some of those reasons are even backed up by facts that bring up certain ideas. So, although, at root, it may be emotional, there may be some thorns sticking in somebody’s heart who got offended by some person who is a guru, and therefore it comes out, the emotion comes out, as very reasonable. And there are papers which are written, and there are supports to these points. So arguing does not always deal with the matter. Sometimes, you have to deal with the thorn that is sticking in the heart that somebody threw in there many, many years ago. And unless you get that out through certain apologies, through certain surrenders with certain loving exchanges, it may never disappear.

Giriraj Swami: That is true. . .too. [chuckles] Yes.

Devotee: We are discussing things on the level of opposing philosophies, but we also have circumstances where there is no imposing philosophy, but just enmity towards ISKCON leadership. Where I have to deal with a particular individual on a daily basis, where there is nothing but [excuses? 01:01:38] and fault finding—[break]—the leadership and also for whatever service we attempt to do to the point where I was actually told I should leave. How does one. . .How should one-

Giriraj Swami: You mean the person told you to leave ISKCON?

Devotee: Basically, yes. That I should go back to becoming a karmi. How should one [laughter] handle this kind of situation?

Giriraj Swami: Well, recently, we were reading in the Seventh Canto. . .anyway, somewhere in the Bhāgavatam, how there is a constant rivalry between the king and the citizens, and sometimes the citizens create unrest against the government. So then the king, or someone on behalf of the government, would call the person and then sit him down and speak to him very nicely and ask him what is the difficulty, and try to win him over by different means. And there are basically four means in political diplomacy.

First is reason and argument. Try to convince the person. Then, if reason and argument don’t work, then there is offering of the post. I am not saying anything would apply to ISKCON, but in general. Second is offering of—like flattery and offering of the post. And third is offering them a bribe. [laughter] And fourth is danda, which means the rod of punishment. And I believe Srila Prabhupada said that reason and argument will work with brahmans. Flattering and offering the post will work with the kshatriyas. Offering of the bribe will work with vaishya, and the only thing that will work with sudras is the stick. [laughter] So now, what is the relevance of what I just said?

Devotee: We are not allowed to be hit with the stick? [laughter] [laughs]

Giriraj Swami: Well, maybe we can put a few sticks when the brahmans make offenses, but. . . I mean, see, I don’t know the person, and I don’t know how accurate your representation of the person is, but I would say that, in anyone’s house a person is welcome only if he behaves in a certain way that makes him welcome. Sometimes devotees quote the idea that Srila Prabhupada built a house the whole world can live in, and yes, the whole world can live in Srila Prabhupada’s house. But they have to follow the rules of the house, and the rules are not manufactured by you or me. The rules are given by Srila Prabhupada and scripture. But certainly, having persons—and not necessarily persons who are part of the management—but just having persons listen to whatever complaints or grievances could help. Sometimes people just want to be heard, and just the fact that someone has heard them will make them feel somewhat relieved and satisfied.

I mean, ISKCON is a huge movement, now, and there is so many people interested in ISKCON, some in different moods, and they have to really be very intelligent on how to deal with them. But at the same time, our work has to go on, and we can’t satisfy everyone; and our work has to go on. Many devotees do feel satisfied just having someone hear them. Just hear them. I keep wanting to say, Maharaja. . .Like Maharaja said, “They may have some storm; some thorn stuck in their heart. They feel pain, and they need the thorn to be removed. So listening to them can help ease the pain, and then some appropriate response can help remove the pain. And then, on an emotional level, they can start to relate to devotees in a more favorable way.”

Devotee: This is what I have attempted to do with the individual, but it turns out that listening to him means having to listen to all of his ill will towards those people that I serve [Inaudible 01:07:21]. And then, to not want to listen to that makes him feel offended.

Giriraj Swami: Anyway, I just recently remember recalling two instances where Srila Prabhupada told friends or devotees not to criticize. One quite pious Indian lady who lived somewhat near the Juhu Temple; she was a well-wisher. She had no malice towards anyone, but even Srila Prabhupada told her that they are doing the best they can, so don’t criticize. “You do whatever you can, and they are doing the best they can. Don’t criticize.” It is complicated, but I think that is the general instruction for someone who could [give it? Break [01:08:20] to hear it, and then to try to see we if can remove that hurt. But at the same time, in the process of trying to give them relief, we shouldn’t allow them in their anguish to cause pain and disturb others and cause damage. . .This will be the last question.

Devotee: It is a further comment [Inaudible 01:08:48]

Giriraj Swami: Well, I am not the one to take the action. [laughter] I am just here to explain the principles that we have learnt from Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande! Hari, Haribol!

Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya!

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