CC Madhya 8.96 – The Glories of Srimati Radharani—Part 02

Giriraj Swami: Calculating you know, are they going to help my project or are they going to hurt my project? That is also a very important function and in the original directions of management Srila Prabhupada had different functions for the sannyasis and for the GBCs. The sannyasis in the original conception were not involved in the management but they would just travel and preach and see that the standards were maintained and recommend new places for the devotees to go and preach. Even the manager, even though one has to make decisions and some decisions are always going to be popular with some people and unpopular with other people, that’s just the way decisions are, but if internally one is in the mood of being the servant of the servant of the servant then you know even if there may be disagreements on a particular decision but at least the mood, everyone will like the mood of service. When a devotee asked Srila Prabhupada, “What can we do to improve our relationships with each other or may be even to stop the fighting among the devotees?” Srila Prabhupada said that if every devotee just thinks that he is the servant of the servant of the servant then other problems will solve the problem in relationships. That is Lord Chaitanya’s teaching: gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. He just wanted to be the humble servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Krishna, who is the maintainer of the gopīs. So we start with Srila Prabhupada but not just with Srila Prabhupada, we really start with each; other servicing each other in service to Srila Prabhupada, in service to his Guru Maharaja and the Gosvamis and to Lord Chaitanya. And the same thing becomes transformed or converted into kṛṣṇa-līlā, or serving Srila Prabhupada in his eternal form and serving his Guru Maharaja and serving Rati Mañjarī and Rupa Mañjarī, Lalita and Visakha, Srimati Radharani and Lord Krishna.

Hare Krishna!

Are there any questions or comments?

Question: Yes, Maharaja. First part of the question [] not any type of intervention on the Lord’s part for the residents of Dvaraka by which Gopa Kumar could have continued to Sri Vrindavan rather than for him to return to earth to perfect his practices in order to be eligible to enter Goloka Vrindavan?

The second part of the question is Srila Prabhupada understood that the devotees within ISKCON all have an eternal individual loving rasa or relationship with the Lord in some capacity or the other. Did Srila Prabhupada outline any separate so to speak guidelines by which a devotee could reawaken that particular rasa through very specific methods like Gopa Kumar as an instance having to return in order to cultivate that particular mood to enter Vrindavan?

Answer: Maybe I will start with the second one first and that is a very good question. The scriptures describe a process for a devotee to follow in the footsteps of one of the eternal residents of Vrindavan and thus to go to Vrindavan to serve Krishna eternally in Vrindavan. The process is described in the books, especially in The Nectar of Devotion and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Upadeśāmṛta. But Srila Prabhupada did not really talk about it much for us and because we are serving Lord Chaitanya we are in an ultimate sense serving Radha-Krishna because śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya rādhā-kṛṣṇa nahe anya. There is a verse maybe by Bhaktivinoda Thakura that if you take bath in the gata in Navadvipa you will emerge in the gata in the Yamuna meaning that if you immerse yourself in the service of Gauranga in Navadvipa, you will emerge on the banks of Yamuna in Vrindavan. I probably discussed this subject more with His Holiness Radhanath Swami than anyone else. He is also of the same conviction that by serving Lord Chaitanya in the saṅkīrtana movement you will get the service of Radha and Krishna in Vrindavan ultimately. But of course, although we should not minimize the value of preaching and working to spread Krishna consciousness, we should not minimize the value of hearing and chanting either. And yes, if someone criticizes or minimizes the value of working to spread Krishna consciousness and preaching, I will defend because it was very much part of Srila Prabhupada’s program. But at the same time Prabhupada did want us to hear and chant about Krishna. and I am seeing that the programs that have been the most successful in preaching and the most successful in attracting and keeping devotees are also programs that have a lot of hearing and chanting. So if we think about Chowpatty in Bombay, they spend hours every day chanting japa, chanting kirtan, studying and hearing and speaking about Krishna. If we take the Polish festival tour, they spend hours every day in the streets chanting the holy names and many of them spend hours in the programs, chanting. 

In one sense the idea that we should hear and chant more within ISKCON is a good suggestion but then the question will be what should be the subject of hearing and chanting? Should it be gopī-bhāva or what should it be? And again I am quoting from my discussions with Radhanath Swami. He feels that the chanting of the holy names and the discussion of caitanya-līlā are really safer for devotees than the discussion of Radha-Krishna līlā because first of all we are basically engaged in caitanya-līlā. We are engaged in the saṅkīrtana movement. Even our dress is similar to caitanya-līlā and to their activities. With Radha-Krishna līlā there is a chance again we are enjoying Radharani’s special mercy today, but there is a chance that one can become affected by material thoughts and material desires if one spends too much time on such topics. It is not even a question of being aware of it and being able to protect oneself from it—the danger is still there. Srila Prabhupada said that if you give a five-year old child a razor blade and tell him that the razor is very dangerous and that you have to be very careful and that if you are not very careful when you shave you will cut yourself. It’s not going to make any difference because a five-year old cannot handle a blade without cutting himself. So Srila Prabhupada said that even if we warn the devotees about the dangers of hearing intimate topics of Radha and Krishna, it does not mean that it won’t have the same effect on them because is it just the intimate pastimes that really resemble material interactions between boys and girls which is the center of material life and the highest pleasure in the material world. So even if someone is warned, he still wouldn’t be able to help himself. He is bound to have material associations come in his mind. 

So the idea that we should have more hearing and chanting I think is welcome but the subject matter should be appropriate and chanting Hare Krishna and discussing different incarnations of Krishna, different pastimes of Krishna, as Srila Prabhupada gave them to us, maybe more appropriate for us than just trying to focus on one particular type of pastime of Krishna and the gopīs.

And it is also sort of paradox but the qualification for āgānuga sadhana is spontaneous attraction, greed. It is not something like avidhi—you must do it but very few people actually have that spontaneous greed and to form a group where it becomes an injunction that you must be greedy is almost a contradiction in terms. But I think again from these examples of devotees who really did become very Krishna conscious at the end of their lives, and many senior devotees all agreed that they went back to Godhead, that one can basically serve within ISKCON as Srila Prabhupada has taught us. And then at the end when one is physically incapable of doing much more than just hearing kirtan or listening to devotees read to them and one can do that. Naturally even Srila Prabhupada did it. 

That is why I am actually very hopeful about the translation of Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta. The first part should be out very soon. It is actually at the printers right now in Sweden. Because Sanatana Gosvami’s mood is very similar to Srila Prabhupada or maybe I should put it the other way. Srila Prabhupada’s mood is very similar to Sanatana Gosvami because Sanatana Gosvami’s mood is that the highest perfection is open to everyone and that it is easily available and the main process is to just chant the holy name. It is not presented as very esoteric and you need to do some very special processes and have some very special association otherwise you are going to miss the chance. It is very open. Just like Srila Prabhupada, he was very open. And another point also is that Srila Prabhupada always emphasized service in separation. He said that service in separation was the highest. But then again there are other Gaudiya Vaishnavas who would say that really the highest is meeting. But Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta it is very clear that service in separation is the highest and there are discussions there which are very similar to prema samput where some the devotees are criticizing Lord Krishna. And one of the criticisms of Lord Krishna was that He left Vrindavan. He never came back, so how could He be so cruel? And again the discussion brings out the fact that the devotees in Vrindavan in separation were able relish a greater ecstasy then when Krishna was personally there. Although externally they were crying and lamenting but internally they were actually relishing the highest ecstasy and that was exactly what Srila Prabhupada taught us. 

So there other Gaudiya Vaishnavas who preach and we give them respect but I found it was very reassuring to hear from Srila Sanatana Gosvami himself many of the same things Srila Prabhupada told us, things which now are being challenged by other the Gaudiya Vaishnavas. So I think that would be a great contribution to get the translation of Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta. And now Gopiparanadhana Prabhu is working on Sandarbhas of Srila Jiva Gosvami as the next project.

Question: [inaudible]

Answer: I will just repeat what Maharaja said. I will elaborate a little. There is a process called siddha-praṇālī and Maharaja said that although Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura did speak of siddha-praṇālī as a process but Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada were very cautious about it to the point where one really is discouraged from even thinking of it. But there are actually two different views of how the living entity attains his svarūpa. The real bābājīs and again we have the Gaudiya Vaishnava bābājīs too but I mean the other type of bābājīs, is that one gets one’s svarūpa from the guru through dīkṣā and siddha-praṇālī. Our line is that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Takura has given us and the predecessor of that line was compiled by Baladeva Vidyabhusana. He gives more importance to śikṣā than to dīkṣā. So one of the criticisms of the bābājīs against the line of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati is that we do not have a proper dīkṣā paramparā because they think that one gets one’s rasa through dīkṣā. 

Our view is that our eternal relationship with Krishna is already there within our hearts and it just has to be brought out by hearing and chanting. Srila Prabhupada gave the example that Krishna conscious is dormant within the heart like fire is within the match and that you just have to strike the match and the fire will come out. Similarly, you have to strike the heart with hearing and chanting and one’s original Krishna consciousness will come out. And here again Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura gave a beautiful analogy that a traveler comes to a house and he is hungry. So the host can tell him, “Alright, here is the kitchen. I will give you the ingredients and I will give you the utensils and you can cook.” But what if the host can say, “I just offered a full meal to the Deity. Now you can have the remnants.” So taking the ingredients and the utensils and assembling them is like siddha-praṇālī. In siddha-praṇālī there is the ekadash-bhav. It is eleven elements of your identity; like your name, your age, your dress, your service. So in siddha-praṇālī the guru will suggest that this your name, this is your name, this is your dress and all the details of your identity and relationship in the spiritual world. And that of course can lead to many complications. 

The other approach is that you just continue hearing and chanting and serving and your original eternal identity will be revealed to you at the opportune time. And that is compared to getting the readymade plate of mahā-prasāda. So basically we believe and we also have our evidence from scripture that nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema, that our particular love for Krishna is eternally established within our hearts and by hearing and chanting the heart becomes purified and our eternal relationship is revealed. Therefore we give more emphasis to śikṣā because through śikṣā we get the hearing and chanting and service that will reveal the eternal identity and relationship. It is not given by the guru but it is already there. The process is given by the guru, the process to awaken. 

So when some of the critics like the bābājīs at Radha-kunda criticize that we do not have siddha-praṇālī, you know Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura said, “Yes, we do have siddha-praṇālī.” What is your siddha-praṇālī? And then he gave the answer: tṛṇād api sunīcena taror iva sahiṣṇunā amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ, which is really what we have been discussing, selfless service and chanting of the holy name. Does that do justice to what you have said?

Question: Maharaja you were speaking about the reasons why Krishna lied to the gopīs and I recall reading that one of the reasons ultimately was to show the world the love of the gopīs. Krishna did that just to show or glorify their love.

Answer: He was saying that Krishna accomplished many purposes with one action and He did want to show the super excellence of the gopīs love by removing them from His association so their feelings of separation could be known to the world.

Candramauli Swami: You mentioned how Krishna says and you explained very nicely how He cannot reciprocate with their love because He had so many other things to deal with. We see that when Lord Chaitanya took sannyasa, He left His friends, He left His wife, He left His mother, He left everything just to show compassion for the conditioned souls. And also again in kṛṣṇa-līlā when the Lord left Vrindavan to remove from the world the miscreants. So He had a mission and in this mission it appears that He puts his loving relationships second in order to carry out His mission of showing compassion to the conditioned soul.

Answer: This is a very nice point His Holiness Candramauli Swami made that one of the reasons Krishna could not the reciprocate love of the gopīs is that the gopīs were single pointed in their love for Krishna but Krishna had other devotees that He was also concerned with. He was also concerned with His mission: yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. So as Lord Chaitanya He took sannyasa so that He could better fulfill His mission of delivering the many fallen souls. And as Krishna He also left Vrindavan for the sake of His mission: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. So that is true. His Holiness Candramauli Swami agrees that Krishna cannot reciprocate with all of the gopīs. His on the side of the gopīs. That is on Radhastami. Let’s see what side he is on during Krishna-ashtami. 

Question: In Rāma-līla too, when Rama banished Sita. His love for Sita was so deep but yet in order to maintain His mission and to keep the reputation, He had to do certain things which kind of interfered with that loving relationship.

Answer: He is saying that the same thing happened in Rāma-līla. Rama was ready to banish Sita because of His mission to establish dharma and act as the ideal king and therefore He did not really reciprocate with Her love for Him.

Yes, from one perspective.

Question: [inaudible]

Answer: Yes, Krishna says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya, but He also says ye yathā māṁ prapadyante, that He reciprocates. But that is the whole point that the gopīs made Krishna break his promise. In Bhagavad-gītā He couldn’t keep His promise. They made Him break His promise. He couldn’t reciprocate. They defeated Him. 

I think that two days is not enough for Radhastami.

All right, so thank you for your patience and indulgence. I pray to Srila Prabhupada that we can remain together eternally in service to his lotus feet and through his lotus feet the entire paramparā.

Hare Krishna.