Interview with Yasomatinandana Prabhu—Part 02

Devotee: I met him in 1977 when he came back from London. He went for Janmashtami and spent it in London. I don’t think he came to make it. He had some prostate operation done in London, some problem with urine, so he wanted to come back, and that’s when he stayed in the new guest house. When did this happen? I remember Prabhupada wanted to stay in the guest house, and so it wasn’t ready, and he said, “Prabhupada, you stay here.” Prabhupada said, “No, I want to go up and stay in my apartment now.” You remember that?

Giriraj Swami: That was in 1977 after the Mayapur festival. Prabhupada came from the last pandal program.

Devotee: And Maharaja, I remember, the elections had taken place, and the Janta party had defeated the Congress, and Prabhupada asked me to bring the newspapers and read the scores to him and everything, and then he was happy that Indira Gandhi was defeated. He said, “She was very cruel and tortuous to so many exalted people, so it is good that she is defeated.” He made that comment. You probably know more about that.

Giriraj Swami: I remember [Unintelligible 00:20:33].

Devotee: Right. Yeah, he just felt that she was strong to retain her position, she became cruel. So, if somebody is strong in order to execute the will of the Lord, then Prabhupada would very much encourage. And then there was a nice program in Cross Maidan, and Prabhupada was coming and giving lectures every day, and he lived in the house of Kartikeya. I remember, we read this in the new apartment. It was already ready, but before that, when he came, or at that very time, the apartment was not ready.

Giriraj Swami: When he first came, [Unintelligible 00:22:29].

Devotee: He was quite upset too, “Why is it not ready? You know I am coming.”

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:22:59].

Devotee: By that time, it got really nicely fixed. It was sort of [Unintelligible 00:23:48], “Prabhupada is not going to take it now.” So, everyone fixed up the whole place very nicely, and Prabhupada was very satisfied when he came.

Devotee: What was Prabhupada’s reason? Just to get the thing done?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah. [Unintelligible 00:24:03].

Devotee: In Vrindavan also, I remember, when the Krishna-Balarama temple was not yet open, the whole thing was under construction, Prabhupada came and sat in his apartment. That was the first thing that was made ready, and he sat there, and he stayed there. We were all living outside, but Prabhupada was staying there in 1974.

Devotee: There was one story, I heard that Prabhupada came into. . . Maybe you can just clarify the incident, that Prabhupada also came into the rooms that weren’t done and the paint was wet yet. They had just finished painting, and he just came in, they were still not done and the paint was wet. Do you remember anything like that?

Devotee: That was in Vrindavan. I remember, in Vrindavan, they had this, a type of black thing, they still have that. So, that also had just been done, I remember when I used to sit there, and my hand became black if I had my hand like this. But he just came and said, “No, I am staying here.” It gradually dried out and became this thing, but he knew that this was the only way these people would really run and get things done. So, that happened in Vrindavan.

Giriraj Swami: So, what can you sort of [Unintelligible 00:25:50]?

Devotee: Well, he gave me a lot of instructions in the matter of installation of the Deities in Vrindavan, and he asked me to go to several places and ask them how they were installed, because in Vrindavan, he wanted Them to be sort of installed in such a way that people would accept it, the other people. So, he asked me to go to this Shyam baba, some [Unintelligible 00:27:15] Maharaja, in the Mota mandir in Bombay. Whatever it is called.

So, I went to him, and just at that time, this article had appeared in Back to Godhead magazine about Vallabha Bhatta. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu called him a prostitute. So, Prabhupada said that the spiritual master has to follow in the order of the previous acharyas. The article was very simple, somebody chose that article in Back to Godhead, and that went around. And the people, they all were upset, some of the Morarji were upset, and this Shyam baba was very upset. So, he said, “This isn’t this.” And then he started telling me, “The other sadhus are not accepting in Vrindavan that you are brahmans, that your guru is making brahmans out of Vaishnavas.” And basically, he spoke to me nicely, but he was bitter because of this thing. So, when I asked him how to install the Deity and this and that, he did not give me too much proper reply, maybe he did not know because he never installed Deities himself.

So then, I came and talked about it to Prabhupada, about what happened with him, and Prabhupada said, “Actually, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was very kind upon Vallabha Acharya, otherwise how would he get the audience of Mahaprabhu? The very fact that Vallabha Acharya was able to talk to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, see Him, and even bring Him to his house.” But then he said, “But it is rotten from the root. Vallabha Acharya took sannyasa and he went back to family life.”

This is the first time I heard it, I never knew that Vallabha Acharya took sannyasa. I think most of the people don’t know that Vallabha Acharya took sannyasa, and I took it to one of his learned followers and he said, “Yes, he took sannyasa for a few days, or few months, but before he died, he had gone to the family again.” So, Prabhupada knew it, and in one sentence, he summarized it all. He said, “It is rotten from the root. He took sannyasa and he went back to family life.”

And then in Vrindavan, of course, for me, the most striking thing is that when [Unintelligible 00:30:13] was the chief guest, and we made a very nice vyāsāsana for Prabhupada, and it was the opening of the temple and Prabhupada was supposed to sit on the vyāsāsana, so he said, “No, put my chair next to the governor’s chair, and both of the chairs should be equal.” He did not want to have a more distinguished chair than the governor’s chair, because he was a very graceful host. He said, “Governor is a very important position, and I should sit on the same level.” So, he sat on the chair.

And a funny thing is that he asked me to speak after [Unintelligible 00:30:53]. He said, “You speak.” I was so surprised. It was the opening of the temple, Prabhupada asked me to give a small, ten to fifteen minutes lecture, and I gave it. That was the big highlight, because I spoke in Hindi, he asked me to speak in Hindi, and there were not that many Hindi speakers around. So, at the time, I was looking at the kitchen at the festival, I arranged for the prasādam cooking, invitations. He asked me to go to different people to invite them. He invited Mayavadis also, [Unintelligible 00:31:38], Atul Krishna Goswami. He asked me to go and invite Karpatri Maharaja. He was living in [Unintelligible 00:31:48] house, just across, but he was the staunchest Mayavadi that I ever met, so I went to invite him.

So, he started smiling and he said, “I have great regards for your Guru Maharaja. I accept what he has done is a great thing, but as per my whole life in upholding the brahminical culture, the brahminical things, the brahminical superiority, and now he is making brahmans out of mlechchhas and yavanas. I don’t accept this.” Then, because the same question had been brought up by the Shyam baba, so I had spoken to Prabhupada. So, Prabhupada said, “Open this Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto.” So, I immediately opened the Fifteenth Chapter, and he showed me the verse. [Unintelligible 00:32:29]. So, I said, “Look in Bhāgavatam. Narada Muni says to Yudhisthira [Unintelligible 00:32:40]. So, his eyes popped up. He said, “Your Guru has trained you well.” He was thinking.

Devotee: He was a gentleman.

Devotee: Yeah. Then I said, [Unintelligible 00:32:54], “So, you will accept those people who chew pan, smoke bidis, and act as bus conductors and train conductors and factory workers as brahmans, but you won’t accept these devotees as brahmans? They rise at four o’clock in the morning, and they practice Krishna consciousness.” I explained everything to him, and he was very impressed. He started laughing, and he said, “That’s okay, but there is something called paper tiger and a tiger. And men like tiger and a tiger. So, when it says that one can be accepted by another varna, it is like a man who is like a tiger, a man who is like a sheer, but he is not actually a sheer, but he is like a sheer. So, when somebody is exalted like a brahman, he is like a brahman, not a brahman. That was my one direct experience of how Mayavadis juggle words. So, he said, “Yes, they can be like brahmans, but not brahmans. They cannot be in brahminical position, only by birth.”

So then, fortunately, he did not have the time or audacity to meet Prabhupada, but even he was a little impressed by his followers. Then he said, “I am sorry. I have all my good wishes with you, your function, I cannot come.” And he said, “As it is, I am leaving in a couple of days, but this is my objection.” When India became independent and Kashi Visvanatha temple in Benares, Nehru and some congressmen took the sudras, Harijans in the temple. Temples were opened up to Harijans, he slept on the door and he said, “You have to go over my dead body to enter this temple.” So, he slept on the door and all the brahmans slept with him, and they did not go inside, at least at that time, they did not go inside. He is like that fanatical man, Mayavadi sannyasi. Karpatri, a sannyasa title. He was a Mayavadi sannyasi. He came, he spoke very nicely. Prabhupada was very happy. Puruṣottama Goswami came, Atul Krishna is a very good speaker, he came. Nṛsiṁha Vallabha Goswami is a good speaker. Nṛsiṁha Vallabha is also from I think Radha-Ramana temple. [Unintelligible 00:35:52].

So, like that, whoever was prominent, we invited them. The whole week, we had a program every day. And Prabhupada said and spoke. Then we had the [Unintelligible 00:36:09], who did the installation ceremony, and he was a Vaishnava brahman, so he carried out Vaishnava way the whole ceremony. But Prabhupada says that our way of installation is chanting the Hare Krishna mantra. In order to pacify others, we have made this show off installation. And in Bhāgavatam, he mentioned we had a big function of installation in Krishna-Balarama temple, but actually, the Deities are installed by the devotees’ love, and by chanting. So, congregational chanting invokes the Deities to be present in the temple. So, that was in 1975, and we met again in September.

Of course, there are so many small, small incidents that happened with Prabhupada, but you have mentioned them very nicely in your book, Watering the Seed. I sat down one day and started reading in Vrindavan, and it was coming back to the old days. I think you should say some more about it.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:37:35].

Devotee: We were going on a morning walk in Bombay, and every day, these people would come, four, five, or six Gujaratis, headed by Dr. Patel. Dr. Patel was a kind of an elderly gentleman of the same age as Prabhupada, maybe a little less, five years less, but he was blackish and very outspoken. He would speak with Prabhupada as if he was his friend, more than a disciple. But amazingly, actually, anybody who knows Dr. Patel, he was a very arrogant man, but somehow with Prabhupada, he kept that respect for Prabhupada. While speaking, he was very respectful.

Devotee: Maharaja, maybe you can confirm this, I heard that one time, Prabhupada had mentioned that in the previous life, they were brothers.

Giriraj Swami: After Prabhupada left, Dr. Patel got inspired and he was very nice [Unintelligible 00:39:01].

Devotee: Prabhupada might have said, “We are like brothers.” People have a tendency to make up things. Whenever I meet some life member, “I am your old life member, I made fifty life members for you,” and I remember that he made maybe three life members.

Giriraj Swami: When Prabhupada left, so many men came to my office in Juhu and said, [Unintelligible 00:40:00].

Devotee: So, these people used to come every day on the morning walk, then Dr. Patel would generally say something challenging, and Prabhupada would smash it. It was going on like that. Dr. Patel was a punching bag for Prabhupada. He would toss out wild atheistic ideas, sometimes atheistic, sometimes demigod worship, sometimes some other sector. He was not an atheist, but he would try to bring other gurus and some other philosophies, and Prabhupada would smash them one by one.

So, one day, it got a little too hot, and somebody brought up the issue of Rama-Krishna, and Prabhupada said, “What has Rama-Krishna done? They eat chicken and everything in the ashram, and [Unintelligible 00:41:11]. This is Their philosophy, and that’s not found in Bhagavad-gītā.” And Prabhupada mildly criticized, not as much as he would criticize to us. To us, he said it was just [Unintelligible 00:41:25].

Once, Puri Maharaja mentioned to me that Puri Maharaja was sitting at this Bhakti vaibhava Puri, and an IIS officer came from Bengal, and he was saying that we will go to Rama-Krishna mission. And Prabhupada heard for two-three minutes, and then he said, “You see these American boys and girls? They will not even go to the Rama-Krishna Matha for passing urine there.” So, Puri Maharaja still remembers, and he said, “Swami Maharaja was so strong.” He said, “They will not even go there to pass urine there.” Then he started blasting, “What are they doing? They are teaching whoever you want, you worship. You eat whatever you want. Then what is dharma? What is religion?” So, in this also, this thing, he never approved Vivekananda’s philosophy, or he said [Unintelligible 00:42:26], and he was smoking cigarettes and he would have some sudra origin lighter and say that this is how he removed untouchability. The higher caste would not touch the lower class. So, Vivekananda would remove untouchability by having some sudra light up his cigarette.

So, of course, at that time, that did not come up, but I have read it. So, Prabhupada was heavy, so this one man, Mr. Shah, flipped out. He started screaming, “You always criticize everybody. You always criticize. What is this? Sadhus don’t criticize anybody. You always criticize everybody and there is no religion before you.” Like that, he started screaming, and devotees were there, and they were ready to push this guy, and Prabhupada said, “Don’t do anything.” Then for two-three minutes, the guy kept screaming, and when he cooled down, Prabhupada said, “What can I do? I am simply speaking the truth. Krishna says that one who does not surrender to Him is duṣkṛtā, mūḍha. As a teacher, it is my duty to explain to my students the truth.” Very mildly, he spoke, and then he said, “All right, just chant Hare Krishna the rest of the way.” This happened near where the road comes to Hare Krishna Land. So, it was only ten minutes, and then we started doing guru-puja.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:44:34].

Devotee: The disciples wanted to stop him. And Prabhupada said, “No.” Prabhupada would not want us to act to stop somebody or shut up somebody in his presence. He was so graceful, he did not want to use his cloud of having so many men around him to shut somebody down. I can see that even though it was a fact, he is a pure devotee and everything, but when you criticize somebody, you should be prepared to accept some opposition. And at that time, deal in a saintly way, not in a [Unintelligible 00:45:33] way, “I will push you down.” So, he demonstrated how humble and simple he was, that he allowed this man to speak.

So then, when we went back to the temple, he was offered guru-puja, and that’s when in Bombay it started, the guru-puja had started at that very time. Daily guru-puja was not going on before 1974. One day, Tamal Krishna Maharaja asked Prabhupada, “Prabhupada, should we offer ārati to you? Can we offer ārati to you?” And Prabhupada went like this, I remember. He said, “You are the one who did the first guru-puja,” and he gave me the photo of 1974 and he said, “I remember this.” So, I also remember vividly.

So, at that time, the guru-puja was going to happen. Prabhupada came and sat down, and devotees were offering flowers to Prabhupada, and then at the end, Mr. Shah came with the flowers, and he put flowers at Prabhupada’s feet and he caught hold of Prabhupada’s feet and started crying like a baby. He just cried, and cried, and cried. He knew he had made a blunder. So, he cried at the feet of Prabhupada, and Prabhupada put his hand on his head. So, that’s how the whole thing got resolved. And then the next day, Prabhupada said, “Now, we will read Kṛṣṇa book.” And that’s when he started reading Kṛṣṇa book from next day onwards.

So, we would read Kṛṣṇa book while we walked all the way to the other end of the beach. Do you remember we would read Kṛṣṇa book? So, instead of controversy and argument because Dr. Patel could not be contained, he was so belligerent that Prabhupada would be explaining something, in the middle, he would speak again. So, he raised doubts, but when Prabhupada answered, he wouldn’t understand or accept them immediately. Lately, gradually, he started. Dr. Patel is one example of how Prabhupada charmed snakes. So, we used to read Kṛṣṇa book every day, and Srila Prabhupada would make some comment in the middle.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:48:31].

Devotee: We would all hear, and one person would read. They were very intimate walks, morning walks in Juhu, morning walks in Los Angeles, on Venice Beach.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:48:53].

Devotee: I told you that Dr. Patel once sent Gujarati tiffin for Prabhupada. I don’t know what worked out between them. He was inviting Prabhupada, “Come to my house, come to my house.” Prabhupada said, “I have a special diet, I cannot come, but you send food here.” So, he brought tiffin. So then, time came for feeding Prabhupada, so we said, “Should we put these items from the tiffin?” Prabhupada said, “No, no need for that. Just give me my regular food.” He did not eat from the tiffin. “Distribute it to everyone.” Probably because of diet reasons or whatever, he did not eat food from him.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:49:43].

Devotee: Right. Sometimes he would bring up issues, ask me questions. One day, I remember about Gopal Krishna Maharaja, because Gopal Krishna Maharaja was a businessman, he was working outside. And Prabhupada made him a GBC, and he came, and Prabhupada asked me, “What do you think about Gopal Krishna Maharaja? Is he doing well?” I said, “Well, he is coming from America.” I was trying to be unequivocal because I did not know much about him. Prabhupada said, “He will be alright,” he reassured me. After that, I still remember this. So, for me, in my dealing with Maharaja, I always remember this instance. “He will be alright.” And he made tremendous progress. Prabhupada enabled him, he took sannyasa, and for so long it has been going on. It is very hard for Indians to give up family life and take sannyasa, but somehow, Maharaja did a good job.

Once, I was killing mosquitoes in the mosquito net. So, Srila Prabhupada said, “We do not kill mosquitos.” So, I said, “Prabhupada, I don’t kill mosquitoes. I never kill mosquitos. I generally go like this.” So, I said, “But Prabhupada, I don’t know how to get rid of them. They are bothering you, that’s why I am killing, otherwise I would never kill.” So, Prabhupada laughed and he said, “Just, what can be done? They are disturbing our devotional service.” Because for Prabhupada, sleep was part of his service. He slept not more than three hours a night, three and a half hours, because I used to sleep in the next room after massaging him.

That is another thing. One day, I used to massage, and only when he told me to go, I would go, that was my rule. Because sometimes he would start sleeping and even mildly snoring, and again after ten minutes, he would wake up, and then I would be massaging, and he would approve that. So, every day, he would say, “Okay, now you go.” Sometimes in half an hour, sometimes forty-five minutes. So generally, you fall like this, you start dozing, because how long can you sit on the bed for so long? But I would still somehow stay.

So, one time it was 12:30, somehow, he did not tell me to go. Then he said, “You are still here? Go.” So, I went and I was just trying to sleep, ten, fifteen minutes, he got up and started translating. Because generally, I would be asleep when he woke up. But then I saw that day that he started translating. One morning, he came and he kicked me with his feet. I mean, he touched me and woke me up with his feet.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:53:22].

Devotee: I would sleep where his sitting room was, and the entrance room, that’s where I slept. So, he would be translating in the sitting room. Bedroom was next to that, and his bathroom was across. So, I would be sleeping in the entrance room. So, Prabhupada came and touched me with his feet, woke me up and said, “You are snoring too much.” So, that was a shock, actually. Then, I asked Prabhupada, “Prabhupada, can I sleep upstairs on the terrace?” So, he said, “No, generally there is no difficulty.” So, he kept me sleeping there.

Then one time, usually, I would get up at four and attend maṅgala-ārati. So, I would get up at four, offer obeisances to Prabhupada, and run. So, one day, it was 5:30 or 6:00, and I ran straight. So, Prabhupada noticed and he said, “Oh, so you got up late today. I did not see you this morning.” He noticed that I did not come to offer obeisances, I just ran straight. So, like that, he was very observant. And he wouldn’t tell us anything, but once in a while, he would say something and you would know that he is watching, it is not like he does not know what is going on.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:55:02].

Devotee: One thing he did say, but I don’t generally say because devotees would take the license otherwise. So, two things he said. Once, he said everything that is cooked in a Vaishnava kitchen is offered to the Lord. In other words, it is like a restaurant. Every minute, something is being cooked, so you don’t offer. But once you offer the first thing in the morning, or in the afternoon, it is assumed that everything is offered in Vaishnava kitchen. Just like we make one small plate here, and other prasādam is there. So, whatever is cooked in a Vaishnava kitchen is offered to the Lord, or accepted. He even told me once that in Ahmedabad, they sell nice samosas in the cart in some area. He told me because he had been there before coming to America, he had spent three months in Ahmedabad in 1960s.

So, at the ashram where he lived, they told me he was very strict. He only ate once a day and he took little milk in the night, and all day, he was writing, even there in Ahmedabad. He lived in [Unintelligible 00:57:30] ashram in [Unintelligible 00:57:31]. So, I met this Swamiji, and he said, “Yes, Swamiji came here and lived for three months here, and he would go distribute, he would make his subscriber members of the Back to Godhead pamphlet.” So, that must be 1961–1962, one of those years. Between 1960 and 1965. So, he said, “Swamiji also went to prison house in Ahmedabad.”

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:58:02].

Devotee: No, to preach to people, and he was translating all the Bhāgavatams. He was translating at that time, writing. So, this man said, “He would eat once a day, and he would take milk at night and wake up very early in the morning, and he would translate.” So, this schedule was already there in Prabhupada. So, there are so many. Prabhupada was a very simple and very pragmatic person. His emphasis was in Krishna consciousness, not on dry austerity, dry penance, or dry rules and regulations. He was the embodiment of vibrant and very active life. Sometimes people think that sadhus should be very grave like stone and they should not have a smile on their face, but Prabhupada was always smiling and cheerful, and he inspired happiness in others, not some austerity or penance, but he made people blissful in whatever position they were.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:59:24].

Devotee: Nṛsiṁha Mehta. I asked Prabhupada about [Unintelligible 00:59:46]. I said, “This man speaks about Krishna, and he is a very powerful speaker. He himself cries while talking about Krishna, and the whole audience cries with him.” So, Prabhupada said, “What does he say?” So, I said, “He said, ‘I read in his book that you can chant any mantra. You just speak about Krishna, krishna-bhakti.’ But he also says that you can have any istadeva as you like, and you can chant any mantra as you like.” So, Prabhupada said, “Then that man is not [Unintelligible 01:00:21].” 

Devotee: What were the actual words?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:00:31] means pretension. “He is a pretender.” So, that was the conclusion. He always said, “What do they say?” He would not judge anybody by anything other than what they spoke. Now, this is another thing. How one is exalted can only be understood by what sidhanta is he propounding. This is Prabhupada’s final conclusion for everybody. I asked the same thing about Nṛsiṁha Mehta also, that he has written very nice poetry about Krishna consciousness. So, Prabhupada said, “I don’t know much about him. What does he say?” Again, he said the same thing. And I said, “He says that devotees do not aspire for liberation. They do not aspire for a mystic perfection, they always aspire for devotional service, life after life.” He said, “Then that is very nice.” So, I also feel he is a genuine bhakti.

And one place that I read is that somebody has done a PhD on him, and he established a link between Nṛsiṁha Mehta and Chaitanya sampradāya by mentioning that in Gujarat, nobody had mentioned the name of Radha, Lalita, and Vishaka in any of the poetries. But first time, Nṛsiṁha Mehta was almost a contemporary of the Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, maybe just after Him or whatever. So, Lord Nityananda visited Gujarat, Dvaraka. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu never went. So, they say that he was blessed by Nityananda, or something like that. Some research men have tried to say something like that. Prabhupada used to also say that Tukaram was blessed by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:02:45].

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:03:13].

Devotee: He said, “They are Mayavadis.”

Devotee: Not impersonalists, but Mayavadis.

Devotee: Anyway, impersonalists or Mayavadis, in general, it’s the same, but I argued with Prabhupada once. I said, “But they do have a personal God and they claim that they are Vaishnavas. They worship Krishna.” This thing, that thing. So, he said, “Because they think that guru is Krishna, or more than Krishna, therefore they are Mayavadis.” So, externally, they are personalists, but the old school is bewildered because they have to put Swaminarayan in the middle of this altar so he is God. But the new school, the [Unintelligible 01:04:26] school, they openly say that he was Puruṣottama, and there is somebody akshara means, I don’t know how they divide, and this present guru is a [Unintelligible 01:04:39]. He is the self-manifest brahma. Now, I don’t know what it means, but pretty close to Mayavada.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:04:51].

Devotee: Manifested brahma. But Prabhupada very firmly said, “They are Mayavadis.”

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:05:12].

Devotee: Yes, they had come and they had spoken with Prabhupada. Prabhupada used to give darshan after four o’clock. So, some of them came, and I think there is also a conversation with Prabhupada somewhere.

Devotee: And what did you ask about [Unintelligible 01:05:32] Maharaja?

Devotee: That I asked. One time, I went to his room and asked.

Devotee: In Juhu?

Devotee: In Juhu. I even asked, Maharaja, Prabhupada about Rupa, Sanatana. I said, “Why did they feel so lowly? They were such learned scholars of Sanskrit. They were born in the exalted brahman families. So, why did they feel so lowly? They did not enter the Jagannatha temple.” And Prabhupada said, “Because they were associating with the Muslim king.” And I said, “But as brahmans, they practiced the rules and regulations.” Prabhupada said, “No, maybe they were associating with Muslims, they were maybe eating things, they may have eaten some things in the past, whatever.”

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:06:39].

Devotee: So, he said, “Maybe they like that. That does not deter them from being the gopīs. It is just external.”

About Tulasi dasa I asked also. I used to pile up these questions and sometimes ask him. Jesus Christ asked but Tulasi dasa, I said, “His poetry seems to be very devotional.” So, Prabhupada said, “In one place, he says that we are the descendants of Bhṛgu Muni. Tulsi dasa comes in Bhṛgu Muni’s line.” And he said, “My Guru Maharaja says that a real Vaishnava will never be proud of being a descendant of Bhṛgu Muni, who kicked Vishnu on the chest.” On this basis, I think Guru Maharaja said no. This is what Prabhupada told me.

And about Jesus Christ. One time, I was massaging, and I said, “Prabhupada, I don’t understand. He never mentioned the name of Krishna or Bhagavad-gītā, or even He did not even tell people about the difference between body and soul. Why do you say that He is a pure devotee?” So, Prabhupada said that because He had no material desires within His heart, that is why He is a pure devotee. From that day onward, my estimation of Jesus shot up. I never considered Him something different from our line. I mean, if Prabhupada said something, he never made things up or said something for the sake of formality. He always meant what he said. He never glorified Mohammad as much as he glorified Jesus.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:09:17].

Devotee: Also, even in somebody had darshan of Lord Ramachandra and he is wonderful, he is an exalted person, but what Prabhupada generally meant was that in acharya, in our disciplic succession, we accept conclusions given by the acharyas of our disciplic succession. So, even though he is so great, we don’t take everything that he says as final. I think somewhere he also supports the caste system by birth and things like that. So, Bhaktisiddhanta did not accept that.

Giriraj Swami: I have also read that he [Unintelligible 01:11:48].

Devotee: No, that Prabhupada rather quoted that a famous poet also says this thing.

Giriraj Swami: Now, my last question was going to be what incidents or instructions do you remember of Srila Prabhupada regarding the Juhu management or the struggle to get the land and the permission?

Devotee: Well, Juhu was Prabhupada’s prestige project, he considered Bombay as the gateway of India. He said once, I remember, even though he was born in Calcutta, he made his project in Bombay, because he considered Bombay the most important city in India. So, it is a prestige project, and it has been a show piece of ISKCON for the whole world, as Prabhupada’s desire. It happened like that. Now, I don’t have too many memories of what he told me about how to manage, once it is built.

Giriraj Swami: One last. How did Prabhupada give you the nickname Joshi Maharaja?

Devotee: This is Dr. Patel. I used to argue with him, but he was affectionate to me. So, he would make fun of me, sometimes in front of Prabhupada, “This brahman went to America and now he brought a madam here” Because I was married to a western woman. So, “Joshi Maharaja has brought a madam here.” So, Prabhupada, from that, he said, “Oh, Joshi, that’s a nice name. Joshi Maharaja.” So, he said, “Yes, where is our Joshi Maharaja?”

Joshi is my surname, and Maharaja, every brahman is called Maharaja. So, Dr. Patel was saying it in slang or taunt, sarcastic. So, Prabhupada was like, “Oh, that’s a nice name.” He had some names for different people. He said, “Giriraj is expert in making friends, and Tamal is expert in making enemies.” And he called Tamal [Unintelligible 01:14:53]. He was some character in a book, some novel. [Unintelligible 01:15:05], a very tough looking guy, and Tamal Krishna Maharaja became so fired up that he stopped going on the morning walks.

Devotee: Did Prabhupada say anything [Unintelligible 01:15:21]?

Devotee: I never asked him, but in Bhāgavatam, he says, [Unintelligible 01:15:39]. But one thing is true, that Meera Bai has written a song about Lord Chaitanya, “Where is Your flute and where is Your black complexion? Now You have come in a fair complexion of Gauranga and instead of flute, You have taken kamandal in Your hand.” Danda kamal means sannyasa kamandal. So, she has accepted Chaitanya Mahaprabhu as Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: I heard two things. Well, one [Unintelligible 01:16:11]. The other story that is heard is that she wanted to meet Jiva Gosvami in Vrindavan and he refused to meet her, and then [Unintelligible 01:16:34].

Devotee: Prabhupada also said, one time, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja, his godbrother’s wife wanted to meet him, and then she said, “I want to meet you privately.” Bhaktisiddhanta said, “No, you cannot meet me privately. Whatever you want to say, say in front of these people.” So, he said that you can meet women but not privately, not in seclusion, but you can meet them for preaching. Of course, you have to meet everybody for preaching.

I heard this recently. [Unintelligible 01:19:00]. “I cannot meet you directly.” Because otherwise, people would say that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu did not meet women, and Chotta Haridasa was banished because he went and begged rice from some lady. So, Bhaktisiddhanta and Prabhupada, they all clarified. That was another question that I asked Prabhupada, about Chotta Haridasa. I said, “He simply begged rice and he was requested by [Unintelligible 01:19:50] to go, and why Mahaprabhu became so strict with him, so heavy?” So, Prabhupada said, “My Guru Maharaja said that he looked upon another woman, young woman there, lustfully.”

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:20:10].

Devotee: He begged rice from Madhavi devi, but the reason Mahaprabhu was angry with Chotta Haridasa is because he looked upon some other woman lustfully.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:20:27].

Devotee: Some other young woman was there, and there he looked at her lustfully.

Devotee: Oh, it’s not mentioned here.

Devotee: No, it’s not mentioned.

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:20:44].

Devotee: Well, one thing was in this instance. I remember, Prabhupada said, but I think it was in a lecture that Lord Chaitanya was very merciful. He just did not want hypocrisy. He said, “Vaishnavas should be simple. Simplicity of the heart. And hypocrisy is not correct.” So then, He says, “Sivananda Sena had a wife and children, and his wife was pregnant.” So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said, “Next time you have a son, give him the name Puri dasa.” So, one person Mahaprabhu is instructing, “Your wife is pregnant, you can give her the name Puri dasa,” and encouraging him. Another person looks at a woman and Mahaprabhu says, “I don’t want to see your face.” Because he was a renounced order and he was a grihastha. So, one has to be honest in spiritual life. “Saralta,” He says, “simplicity.” That is a great quality of a Vaishnava.

So, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu dealt differently with different people because He saw they should be honest and uphold the integrity and sanctity of a particular order. If you are a brahman, you should behave like a brahman. If you are a sannyasi, you should behave like a sannyasi. And if you are a devotee, then you should behave like a devotee.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!