Srila Prabhupada Nectar—Part 02

Giriraj Swami: And we hope they will be following in twenty years or thirty years, but we don’t know. So they should also, I feel, be humble in the presence of senior devotees even if the senior devotees aren’t following so strictly in terms of their behavior, but who really do have very deep love for Srila Prabhupada and who would sacrifice—I believe, many of them would sacrifice—if by doing so, if by their sacrifice they could do something to help Srila Prabhupada. I think many of them feel they can’t do much the way things are right now, but I am sure that if they could, if they were convinced that they could help even at some personal expense or sacrifice. I am sure they would. And I guess, making the same point, again, but in a more philosophical way or analytical way, one of the reasons that they lose taste, of course, they lose the practice, but also one of the reasons they may lose taste is by having bad feelings or resentment, which, we could call offenses. And again, just by being nice to them and appreciating the good in them and the good they have done in the past, they can let go of their bad feelings, and then let go of their offenses. And then, they will be able to appreciate the chanting, or again, and then when they hear and chant without offenses, then naturally, they will enjoy and relish and do it more.

Devotee: Well, I usually remain silent, because a lot of my friends are older devotees that don’t chant. But the only time I get irritated and speak up is there is an element that will water down the philosophy to suit their own level so that they don’t feel bad. They will switch things around a little bit; bend things  to justify their level of sense gratification, which we all have. But I feel, so long as somebody is humble, nobody will—very few hit the mark that Srila Prabhupada would like us to hit – but, I usually remain silent, because it is almost astrological people go through different stages. Sometimes. they just stop chanting and they stop following, and sometimes they come around. And I feel like older devotees are defensive, because they already know, they have been through so much, and if you do even the slightest bit, they get defensive, and they feel persecuted, or you are fault finding. They are very, very sensitive. But the only time I get really angry is if they start messing with the principles or Prabhupada’s teachings to justify where they are at. That is my experience.

Devotee 2: If they are innocent, and they have good sentiments, then it is just a matter of time, I feel.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is true. That is true. But what would be an example of. . .?

Devotee 2: If they are taking intoxication, somebody will say, “No, it is okay to do that, Prabhupada. . . They actually switch things around. They will actually say. . .I have heard it said, “Prabhupada said it is okay to drink liquor. It aids in digestion.” I have heard, well, I feel like I have heard a lot of strange stuff. “Better to chant two good rounds than sixteen. It is quality not quantity.”

Devotee: I have heard lots of stuff from old-

Giriraj Swami: Yes, but again, I think in their heart of hearts, they know.

Devotee: But then, you have to speak up, right? I mean, you can’t let stuff like that go.

Giriraj Swami: Well, I probably hear less of it, because I don’t think they would try that [crosstalk]. [laughter] They probably know they couldn’t get away with it with me. But, someone said. . .I would probably argue. I would probably argue. Someone said that Prabhupada said that liquor is good for digestion. I would probably say, “Well, there are other things that are good for digestion that aren’t bad for your spiritual life.” I mean, I wouldn’t. . . I would say it like that. I mean I wouldn’t become-

Devotee 2: Well, I guess there is a general way of saying. . .

Giriraj Swami: Riled. And, I would say, “Yes, I mean, he did say for meat-eaters, they have to take alcohol to dissolve the meat.”

Devotee: But not for broccoli and dahl.

Giriraj Swami: And, that “It is better to chant two rounds with quality than sixteen rounds without quality,” I would say, that could be true, but how do we chant any rounds with quality? I mean, it is very rare to chant any rounds with quality. But to be able to chant any rounds with quality we have to practice. That is what Prabhupada said, practice makes perfect even in spiritual life. So we practice chanting with less quality and gradually we improve the quality.

I mean, there is one conversation where. . .in the old days, before we had computers. . . So, when I would find a quotation from Srila Prabhupada that I thought was significant and relevant to devotees, I would type it up. I would have some devotee just type it up, and then, we would make copies and give them. So I made one which I called, Quality in Chanting. It was from a morning walk where a disciple had asked Srila Prabhupada about chanting with quality. And Prabhupada said that chanting in quality means, like Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, that the whole world is vacant in your absence. He said, “That is quality in chanting.” So he said, “Quality in chanting is not so easy. Therefore, we chant sixteen rounds as our duty.” As our duty, we chant sixteen rounds, and when we are fortunate enough that the quality of separation comes, then it will come. But we just do our duty. But again, if someone is a senior devotee who is just sort of making excuses and trying to justify his own-

Devotee 1: They will say – They say, eggs isn’t bad, because it is not killing an animal.” I mean, old devotees; good friends, say things like that.  That not smoking marijuana is man’s law, not God’s.

Devotee: That, what was that?

Devotee 2: That smoking marijuana is man’s law, that Prabhupada said, it is man’s law, not God’s.

Giriraj Swami: Well, eggs. . .

Devotee: But you know what my answer to that was? Prabhupada said no eating meat, fish, and eggs. If he said no eating meat, fish, and olives, we shouldn’t eat olives. It is the [Inaudible 00:09:46] That is what he said.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. But what I heard, years ago, that struck in my mind was that the egg is like the product of menstruation of the hen. So, I mean, [00:10:05] that.

Devotee: Yes, I mentioned that a few times, but they didn’t care.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. And the other thing is that they are part of God’s plan for procreation. So isn’t it that if we take the egg before it is fertilized to eat that we are interfering with the natural plan for procreation? Isn’t it sort of like. . .I am not quite sure about it, but I thought maybe-

Devotee 2: It definitely doesn’t seem auspicious or clean or anything.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. And again, it is like Prabhupada said, that we are not vegetarians, or non-vegetarians. We are Krishnatarians. We only eat food that we offer to Krishna. We can’t offer eggs to Krishna, so it is sinful even if we say it is not the sin of killing an animal, but it is sinful. It is the sin of. . . But it is such a vile thing. But anyway, but even if we take a banana, and we don’t offer it, and we just take it for sense gratification, we are guilty of the sin of taking Krishna’s property without permission. He gives us permission to take certain items and offer them to Him and take the remnants, but He doesn’t give us permission just to take.

Devotee: Yes, well we aspire for good, strong temple devotee association like this, because mostly if we associate with other type, then it is hard for us, because we are on top, but we are very fallen. We need to realize—we need to—that is why we aspire for better association than us.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. But I also read that, recently in a morning walk conversation where Srila Prabhupada was discussing devotees who live outside the temple—I should say, devotees were asking Srila Prabhupada about devotees who live outside the temple in Hawaii. And Srila Prabhupada said that they can live outside the temple and follow the instructions of the spiritual master outside the temple, but the advantage of the temple is that there will be good examples. And then, he emphasized especially that the leaders must set good examples for the others. So, if they have some weakness within themselves, the devotees in the temple can see the good examples, and then that will inspire them to correct their own weakness and come to the proper standard. It is a very nice discussion. It is probably one of those ones that I might have typed out and made copies of in the old days. It is a very balanced discussion by Srila Prabhupada of the life of devotees who live outside the temple.

But yes, it can weaken you; being always with weaker devotees, it can make you weaker, because [crosstalk] man is a social animal, and yes.

Devotee: And you feel like, “Well, at least I am doing this; nobody else is doing this. And you start a lower standard in general.

Giriraj Swami: But, what was the one you mentioned?

Devotee 2: Oh, it was a good one. It was about marijuana, and that that was man’s law,  – that marijuana is not God’s law. Someone told me that Prabhupada had said that, which I have never heard anything like that.  Again, I think it was something they took out of context.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Well, it is, like, no meat, fish, or eggs; no intoxicants, including coffee, tea, and cigarettes, and I think at Kausalya’s initiation he said, and no LSD. [Laughter] Yes, I mean, I would agree that. . .

Devotee: It is just sometimes, I don’t know whether to say something. But, I understand, now. What you are saying is, if you can say something in such a way as where it doesn’t become a confrontation.

Giriraj Swami: That is it. The relationship is more important than the issue.

Devotee: Right.

Giriraj Swami: So, if you can express our position in a friendly and congenial way that doesn’t disturb the relationship, but may actually strengthen the relationship, because they might actually be testing you to see, are you just another fanatic that is more interested in arguing over little points than you are interested in them. So you can show that you are really interested in them as people, and that you are not really going to get hung up over a difference of opinion. Then, I think, you will have passed a test in your relationship.

So, if you pass it. . .So, if you are silent and you show, well, you don’t want to disturb the relationship for the sake of some issue, that is okay. But if you can sort of represent Srila Prabhupada’s position, and at the same time, make the person feel that you value the relationship more than the details of his practices, then I think it will make the relationship even more strong, because I think he will feel comfortable emotionally, like you really care for him and you are not going to reject him because he said something weird. And it will also feel comfortable, spiritually, that you actually do have faith in Prabhupada, because, it works. It is constantly working in every interaction. The people affect us and we affect the people. So even though constant association with weaker devotees can weaken us and make us accept a lower standard, but like you said, their association with you, who is relatively a stronger devotee, will serve to strengthen their faith unless they are really inimical; just like an ordinary weak devotee. But what you are saying is confirming my first idea that we should get together from time to time.

Devotee 2: Definitely. That was a perfect, perfect answer. [laughter] That the relationship is more important than the issue we have with them, and. . .

Devotee: Because, true, and these personalities are not, they are not ordinary, and they do have a lot of love for Prabhupada. And some of them have incredible abilities. They are able to preach. Like Svarupa [?] [00:19:12].

Devotee 2: She is thinking Svarupa.

Devotee: Svarupa is incredible, but there are other ones besides Svarupa. We know. People that are just—when they speak the philosophy they understand it so well and able to express it in some ways, and then—or maybe kirtan abilities, and the love for Srila Prabhupada cannot be denied. They definitely love Srila Prabhupada. And so, really we have ruptured so many relationships in the past, and it is good we start trying to mend these and get back to the basics.

Devotee 2: At one point, Svarupa made me think ISKCON is folding and all the trouble it had in the past. It is folding, and it doesn’t matter what we do anymore. This is what he tried; he pulled on me, and I said, “No, in spite of us, it will go on. Even if one or two people remain, and I am going to be one of them. [laughter] It is not going anywhere, no matter what you do. You are just justifying. I mean that, me and him can fight, because we are brother and sister. [laughter] And no matter how smart he is, he actually even learned from me: He is not that smart. [laughter] It is because I know I remained firm on that point. . .and he has come around.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. It works both ways, but that is why it is always good to both give association to weaker devotees, and take association from stronger devotees so that you get strength to give association to weaker devotees. But then, there is also something like, I am not thinking or suggesting that I am a stronger devotee, but just by coming together, as we do, somehow Srila Prabhupada manifests himself more, and that gives us all strength. . .encouragement.

Devotee 2: Well, we can bring a lot of devotees here.

Devotee: Well, how many do you think we should? [00:21:50] like to have? [laughter]

Devotee 2: We don’t bother the neighbors or anything.

Devotee: We have a pop-up trai-

Devotee 2: These two boy, they are going to be working like anything. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Yes. . .Well, I think you can come, and then you go give association.

Devotee: Maybe if we invite them here, you can help-

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that would be the other thing. [crosstalk] I mean-

Devotee: We can be the receivers. You don’t have to be the receiver.

Giriraj Swami: I would have to recover a bit more, but if there is a larger number, that could also work. Where I am not the host, and it is not on me to be the host. That could work. Yes. If it is more of an event, and it happens to be here, and I am a part of it, but it is-

Devotee 2: Well, what we do with San Jose is we combine the temple for sister temples, and so when we go to San Jose and people visit, we entertain. We are part of that temple.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. I mean it sounds good. I just have to see how and when it could work.

Devotee: Yes. We will probably start out just a few, one or two, but. . .

Devotee 2: With Svarupa [?] [inaudible [00:23:30] [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Yes. I think this is an important point to go back to the relationship versus the philosophy. Srila Prabhupada, if a person was friendly to him as a person, he could be friendly back even if the person’s philosophy was different. But then, when the person would bring up the opposing philosophy, Srila Prabhupada would argue against it. But as long as the person was a friend to him, Prabhupada was a friend to the person. And one example is Dr. Mishra who had the yoga ashrama in upper New York. He was a Mayavadi, but he gave Srila Prabhupada a place to stay when Srila Prabhupada first came to New York and he didn’t have a place. And he also gave Srila Prabhupada a chance to visit his ashrama. And although he didn’t want Prabhupada to speak, he just wanted him to lead kirtan.[laughter] But Prabhupada did meet some nice, young people there and made them devotees.

I was there in a small group of devotees in the garden in L.A. when Prabhupada said that he and Dr. Mishra were friends, and that Dr. Mishra was sick, and Srila Prabhupada cooked for him. And Dr. Mishra said that he felt that Srila Prabhupada’s cooking had saved his life; brought him back to health. And then, Prabhupada said that when Dr. Mishra would speak Mayavada philosophy, Prabhupada would argue vehemently. But outside of the philosophical arguments they were still friends.

Devotee 2: That to me is amazing.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I mean, that is very hard for neophytes to understand. I mean, “Oh, Mayavadi; Mayavadi. If you just see a Mayavadi, you have to take bath in the Ganges with all your clothes.” [laughter] “Can’t associate with Mayavadis.”

And I realized it when I went to Lagos, Nigeria, and there was a man, quite a wealthy Sindhi gentleman, and he was a friend. Well, mainly, he arranged a program for us at his house, and he invited as a friend, and we went specifically to collect for Juhu. Prabhupada knew about it, and he encouraged it. And he made very nice arrangements with a very nice audience of well-established business people. And, the house was clean, they put down clean white sheets for everyone to sit on the floor on the carpet, nice prasāda. And I didn’t know that he was a Mayavadi, because you don’t really know until people start to speak.

So, after the lecture, when we had questions and answers, then I discovered he is a Mayavadi. He really came out as a Mayavadi in terms of philosophy. So then afterwards, I thought, “How should I deal with him? Should I be upset with him because he offended Krishna?” And I thought about it like, “He is a friend in the sense that he invited his friends to meet us, and he was, encouraging them to give for Juhu.” And personally, he was very respectful, and the way he received us and seated us and offered us refreshments. He was very respectful. So, I thought, should I reject him because he is a Mayavadi; like, Mayavadi aparādha. And I thought, No, why? He is doing service. Maybe Mayavadi, but he is doing service; he is being nice to me as a person, so why shouldn’t I be nice to him as a person and maintain his service. And when it comes to philosophy, we will argue or he will put forth his points and I will put forth my points, but why should we—If having philosophical differences isn’t going to make him break the relationship, why should I allow it to make me break the relationship?” And that sort of all took place in my mind right at his house.

[break in audio]

And then, that is when I thought back about Srila Prabhupada and Dr. Mishra, and I realized, “Oh, that was what was happening there.” And that is so important, especially now where there can be so many philosophical differences on guru-tattva or Gaudiya Matha, or whatever.

Devotee: Ritvik.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. So, I mean, yes, if they attack, that is something else. Then we have to defend Prabhupada and ISKCON. But if they don’t attack, but they just have their own ideas which may be a little strange from some point of view, again, we shouldn’t cause a disruption in the relationship over it. It is better just to tolerate the differences and maybe not even bring up the topics. Or, if the other people bring up the topics, and if we can answer in a way that they feel that we are still their friends, but we just have our position, then. . .

And then, there is preaching to the faithless. I mean, this is a little different, because I think most of the people we are talking about do have faith in Srila Prabhupada. But, it just came in my mind, that my parents. . .yes, it was the time when my parents and sister had come to visit me in India, and we had gone on a little trip with them with Narottama Nanda, from Bombay. And I remember, we were on the flight. I mean, I forget how long they were there. Anyway, I am not sure if this is historically accurate, but I think it was maybe sixteen days; two weeks and three weekends. . .It was about—looked like a week in Bombay, and then maybe five days in Udaipur and four days in Srinagar and Kashmir, and then, we ended up one day in Delhi.

So we were on the flight. I will never forget. We were on the flight from Delhi to Srinagar, and I was confronting my father that we never went to the moon. [laughter] We never went to the moon. And I just saw, right in front of my eyes whatever little credibility our philosophy might have had with him was rapidly vanishing. And then, it clicked that it is preaching to the faithless. He doesn’t have faith in the Vedic literatures, and by telling him that man never went to the moon when he was so convinced by “obvious evidence” to his mind that they had gone, he was just thinking that we must really be out of touch with reality; we must really be living in our own world. And then I realized, this is what preaching to the faithless means. And then I stopped. I stopped doing that.

So, I guess the relevance is that, in a broader sense, we have to accept whatever is favorable to Krishna consciousness and reject whatever is not favorable. So arguing over a point of philosophy with a person at the expense of a relationship which may be very important for the person’s Krishna consciousness, that is not accepting what is favorable and rejecting what is unfavorable. Rather we should reject arguing at the expense of the relationship and accept preserving the relationship. And I mean, of course, Prabhupada as the acharya, had to be very conscious of the precedents he set, because in the position of acharya he might, as they say, have had to—I mean, in sort of gross terms, they sort of sacrifice the individual for the sake of the family.

I remember in the Līlāmṛta, I mean Prabhupada would just do anything to keep someone in the spiritual family at 26 Second Avenue. But finally, one devotee, maybe it was Tradhisa, he became such a disturbance that Prabhupada let him go. And Satsvarupa Maharaja commented that it was the first time that Prabhupada ever let anyone go without really trying, by all means, to make the person stay. And Satsvarupa commented that because Prabhupada now had many disciples to care for, he couldn’t insist on keeping the one person who was a disturbance to so many of the others and maybe a threat to so many of the others. But in our positions, when we are not the acharya or the head of an institution, in our positions when we are just dealing with individuals, we can go off for the individual. We don’t—it is not like every word that we speak is being recorded, and it is going to be the standard for the next ten thousand years. And I think that is another thing that—

But even then, one example that comes to mind was when Prabhupada sort of sanctioned a devotee’s divorce. I mean, we all knew that Prabhupada didn’t really approve of divorce. But we all also knew that the devotee would have done it anyway, and if Prabhupada had said no and then the devotee had to go against Prabhupada, it would have damaged or broken the relationship between the disciple and Prabhupada. So we knew that Prabhupada agreed because the devotee was going to do it anyway, and at least this way the devotee’s relationship with Prabhupada would remain. And we all knew that the devotee’s relationship with Prabhupada was the only hope any of us had.

And little things, like after the first Delhi pandal, one of the main organizers of the pandal program was a lady. (She might have been a widow. I mean, we never saw her husband.) And she wanted to invite Srila Prabhupada and the devotees to her house for prasāda after the program. So we went. She was mainly just, I think, her family and servants, might have been a few guests; a few friends. And there was a kirtan and Prabhupada spoke. And I remember afterwards there weren’t many people, but I asked Prabhupada if I should make a presentation either about life membership or the books. He said yes, you can make a presentation. That was in the garden, and then we went into the house. And there were several rooms that had been set up for the devotees to take prasādam, because they couldn’t all fit in one. And the lady had put onions in some of the preparations, and she was very gracious serving Prabhupada and the devotees. She asked Prabhupada how he liked to prasāda. He said he liked the prasāda. And I think Mother Malati said, “Srila Prabhupada, there is onions in the subji or the dahl.” Prabhupada said, “No, there is no onions.” And Mother Malati said, “No, there are. I have seen them. Not only have I tasted them, I have seen them.” Prabhupada said, “No, there aren’t.” Just kept eating, because he didn’t want to hurt the lady who had put so much into the program.

Another time, we went to visit Sumati Murarji with Srila Prabhupada. And now, she is a very important lady. I mean, very important in the history of Prabhupada and ISKCON and important in the world. She is the chairman of Scindia Steam Ship Company, and also, the managing trustee of the Srinathaji Temple, in Nathadvara and prominent in Pushtimarg sampradāya.

So, it was a big thing. That we all—I mean, all means a few of us—we went to her house, and she had a plot right on the beach, and a big garden between the wall that separated her property from the beach and her mansion. And there were a lot of palm trees, and there was a little terrace or patio or something, but formal, square. And then, there were some benches. And at one end there was a swing, Indian swing, metal. . . So, they were sitting, and she was very gracious, and Srila Prabhupada was very gracious. And she was remembering how Srila Prabhupada stayed in the Scindia Workers Colony in Andheri before he went to America. And every day, she would send a car for him in the afternoon. And he would come and read to her from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And it was sort of a regular routine until he went to America. And at one point, she said to him, “Remember how you used to come every day and read to me from Rasa-panchadhyayi?” In the five chapters of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the rasa dance. And Srila Prabhupada was smiling and beaming. He said, “Yes, I remember it well.” And then, the next morning on the morning walk, Brahmananda asked Srila Prabhupada, “Did you really used to come and read to her from Rasa-panchadhyayi?” And Prabhupada made a face and said, “No, I used to read from my First Canto.” [laughter] But, it was such a sweet exchange between them. Prabhupada didn’t want to spoil it by, “I didn’t read from the rasa-līlā. [laughter] I read from the. . . Yes.” [laughter] So, I think that is also a problem. Of course, it is a problem when devotees maybe sort of twist the philosophy to suit their purposes. But it is also a problem when devotees who are neophytes who just didn’t have association with Srila Prabhupada they take statements which Prabhupada may make in an absolute way as the acharya from the vyāsāsana, and then they try to apply them in an absolute way. But Prabhupada, as an individual, he didn’t apply them in an absolute way.

So, the back of the property, there is these old apartment buildings. So, Srila Prabhupada was on the terrace, and a few of us were there. He was talking about the money that devotees were sending, and he was saying, “With great difficulty these devotees are going out on the streets and meeting people and collecting money, and you cannot misspend one farthing.” He was just emphasizing, “You cannot waste one farthing. They are working so hard with so much difficulty to go out and meet people and sell books and send the money for the construction. You cannot waste one farthing.” So that was the way he would speak, and he was concerned—he was definitely concerned. He didn’t want us to be cheated or wasteful. But when Karandhara became the GBC—for a short while, he became the GBC for India—Prabhupada told him not to interfere too much with the way the temple presidents spend the money. He said, (even if they waste some of the money) because if you interfere too much they will lose their enthusiasm. So, on the one level, there is very strong statements: You cannot waste one farthing, and then on the other hand, Prabhupada understood the nature of the devotees, of people. He didn’t want to discourage them.

So, I think it is very important that we learn how to deal with each other as people. And the philosophy has its place and the standards have their place, but it is not that in the name of upholding the philosophy or upholding the standard that we destroy the relationships, because that wasn’t what Prabhupada did.

Devotee 2: The main point is to have gentleness and loving intent, and then when you say something, it will come out the right way. For example, once, I was at a Sunday feast in New Dvaraka, and a guest, brand new guest, put a scripture on the floor, and a devotee serving out prasādam angrily picked the book up and handed it to the person. And that person stood up and walked out. And I thought, oh, I was horrified. I was thinking to myself, It is more of an offense the way he did it without loving intent. For that, a soul left and didn’t have prasādam and learn more about Krishna consciousness, [stayed/staged [?] [00:49:49] at the temple. That was more of an offense than the original offense of putting a scripture on the floor and not knowing any better. So I was thinking, he could have said, “Oh, (find out the person’s name), actually, we don’t put scriptures on the floor. Thank you for coming.” He could have said so many things encouraging, and then by the way, we don’t do this. So it is how you say it.

Giriraj Swami: That is right; that is right. It is like? [Unintelligible 00:50:18] just following for the sake of following without understanding the purpose. Now, the purpose is to attract people to Krishna consciousness, not to discourage them in the name of upholding some principles; some rule.

[pause]

But it is a science. That is the other thing. It is a science. But, it is a spiritual science, and the ultimate goal is to please Krishna. And Krishna is pleased really by our love and devotion. But of course, we follow the rules and regulations to develop the love and devotion that are dormant within the heart, but the real goal is, or the real thing that pleases Krishna is the love and devotion. And we always hear that we can please Krishna most by bringing other people to Him, but bringing other people to Him really involves a loving heart. Of course, in the past. when Prabhupada was here, everyone felt the love in his heart, and there wasn’t so much attention paid to us, because they felt it from him. They got it from him, and we were all just the assistants. But now, in his physical absence, it is harder for people to feel his love if they don’t feel it through us. So these simple instructions like cooperating, spreading Krishna consciousness, respect, these simple instructions involved, they require Krishna consciousness or, yes, Krishna consciousness. Not in an official way or in a conventional way.

The thing that struck me about the devotees in Visalia, Briston, and the association I had there, is that they were mature, they had gone through many experiences in life, and they were mature. They weren’t young devotees in the temple, but at the same time, they were pure, at least in the sense that they were following the principles and chanting Hare Krishna, and especially in the sense that they weren’t offensive. And consequently, I was able to be myself more, because there are a lot of senior devotees that are experienced in the world, but many of them are weak spiritually, and some of them are even offensive. So, even though they are mature and experienced, I can’t really open myself up to them so much. And then, there are younger devotees in the temple who follow strictly, but they are not very mature, and I can’t really open myself up to them, either, because they will get bewildered. And they just need to know you have to get up at four o’clock, clean your place, and so many things. So, it was a good combination. [laughs]

I used to have a psychology professor at Brandeis, and he used to say, “What do you do after the orgy is over?” I mean, it is sort of an indirect criticism of sense gratification, and what you do when the orgy is over? But you can have an orgy of Krishna consciousness or Prabhupada consciousness. It doesn’t really have to end. [laughter]

Devotee 2: Well, we don’t smoke cigarettes, but we do take Krishna. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is true.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!