Lessons in Learning—Anecdotes

Giriraj Swami: So, we’ve come together to associate in service to and remembrance of Srila Prabhupada and Srila Gurudeva, and how we proceed depends on what you want. So, are there any questions? Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:00:30] just one, memories.

Giriraj Swami: He said that we often hear of the successes, but we can also learn from our mistakes. And he quoted, “Failure is the pillar of success.”

So yes, if there are any notable mistakes that I would like to recount? And immediately, one came to mind. It was in 1977, and I think it was around April and May, before Srila Prabhupada went to Rishikesh. And earlier, Indira Gandhi had declared a state of emergency in India, and assumed absolute powers, and for about a year and a half, she ruled India practically as a dictator. But then, she decided to call elections, and all her opponents formed a party called the Janata Party, and the leaders of the Janata Party were Morarji Desai and Jayaprakash Narayana, who were freedom fighters and venerable politicians, and they won the election. Morarji Desai became the Prime Minister.

So, Morarji Desai had a home, or his son had a home in Bombay, and after the elections, he came to Bombay for, maybe, two or three days. And at the same time, we had cultivated a member of parliament who had been in the same political party as Morarji Desai was, and had been known as Congress (O). And he said he could arrange a meeting between Srila Prabhupada and Morarji Desai. So, we heard about the Prime Minister’s visit just a day or two before he was to arrive, and he was only going to be in town for a day or two.

Finally, the night before the meeting was to take place, if it was to take place, Ratansingh Rajda, who was the member of Parliament, phoned at about eleven o’clock at night. Now, earlier, Srila Prabhupada had said that if the Prime Minister wants to visit him, he is welcome to come and meet him at Hare Krishna Land, but that he would not go to meet the Prime Minister. And Srila Prabhupada said, “I’m not proud, but unless he has the proper frame of mind, he won’t get any benefit from meeting me, and if he comes to me, then it shows that he is in the right mood.”

So, at eleven o’clock at night, Ratansingh Rajda phoned and said that Morarji Desai’s schedule was too busy for him to come to Juhu, but that some of us could meet him in central Bombay. So, I told Mr. Rajda that I would consult Srila Prabhupada. So, I went to Srila Prabhupada’s quarters, and then it was 11:30 or twelve at night, maybe even later, and I was very afraid, because I didn’t want to disturb Srila Prabhupada, because he was already quite ill by then, and the servants were taking rest.

So, I came into the quarters. I don’t know how many of you have been there, but they are very nice. It’s a whole floor on the top of the west tower, and there is a reception area. Anyway, I went around, there was a long way around to get to the entrance to Srila Prabhupada’s meeting area. So, I came around, and I wasn’t sure what to expect, and then beyond the meeting area was the bedroom. I just very silently walked around and came to the doorway and I moved in, and I saw there was a lamp, and Srila Prabhupada was sitting at his translating desk.

It’s a big area, probably all together maybe two-thirds the size of this room, but the way it’s arranged, sort of in one area was his translating table, and in another area was his darshan table, and then in another area was his prasādam table, and it was all white marble floors and carved wood ceiling, with chandeliers and mirrors. They are very opulent, and the furniture also is all carved wood, so they are very opulent. When Srila Prabhupada came into his quarters, he commented, “Oh, this is just like my room at Radha-Damodara. In one corner, I was translating, in one corner, I was meeting people, in one corner, I was taking prasāda.”

Anyway, it was after midnight I came to the doorway, and at the far end of the room was the translating table, and the lamp was on. I came forward very gingerly and offered my obeisances and said, “Srila Prabhupada, I hope I am not disturbing you.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “No, you are not disturbing me. Actually, these days, I’m not able to sleep at night,” and he said, “I’m also not able to eat, and there is no question of mating and defending, so I guess I’m liberated!”

So then, I explained what Ratansingh Rajda had said on the phone, and Srila Prabhupada took the same position, “If he wants to meet me here, I’ll be happy to meet him, but I don’t want to meet him unless he is in the right frame of mind to come to me.” So, I said, “Well, what about us?” He said, “Well, you can go.” “You” means Tamal Krishna Goswami and me. So, I phoned Ratansingh Rajda back. It was about one in the morning, and Morarji Desai was free at about seven. I think the appointment was fixed for 7:30.

So, Goswami Maharaja and I left early in the morning, and we got to Ratansingh Rajda’s place at about six, and his place was not more than, at most, twenty minutes from the Prime Minister’s home. So, we got there well in time. I mean, we were just sort of in the outer room, and somehow, he had to get ready. So, he was taking his bath and getting dressed. Time was passing, time was passing, and it was getting later and later, and by the time we got to the Prime Minister’s home, it was already about 7:20, and he was talking with the Mayor of Bombay, Murli Deora. Since then, he became even more prominent. I think he became a member of Parliament.

And Murli Deora was saying, “So many people are coming to Bombay from the villages, we don’t know what to do with them all.” And Morarji Desai said, “Don’t let them come.” And the Mayor said, “Well, how can we stop them?” And Morarji Desai said, “You are the government, you can do whatever you want.” Goswami Maharaja mentioned afterwards they were two different categories. Morarji Desai was a sort of humble and wise politician from the old days, the old school, very austere, wearing white khadi. Murli Deora was like a young businessman who got into politics and got elected. So, afterwards, Goswami Maharaja commented they were like two different species.

So then, Morarji Desai was very old and his meeting with the Mayor was his last official meeting. So then, he went into his backroom to sort of relax, but he said we could still come in for a few minutes. And the first thing he said was, “I was waiting for you, what happened to you?” And I didn’t want to make Ratansingh Rajda look bad, so I don’t know what I said, I didn’t say much, and there was really no time to have a proper talk with him, and then we left and came back.

So, when we got back, we went up to Srila Prabhupada’s quarters to tell him what happened, and when he heard that we were late, he was not very pleased. And then when I told him that the Prime Minister asked, “Why were you late?” Prabhupada said, “Why didn’t you tell him that we were early, but the member of Parliament made us late?” So, I was silent, and Prabhupada said, “Of course, he is your friend and you didn’t want him to look bad, but still, you should have told the Prime Minister that you were late because of the Member of Parliament, that you were on time.”

So, we all paid our obeisances and left. Then, Goswami Maharaja said to me, “I can’t believe it, I can’t believe it. If I would have done that, Prabhupada would have roasted me! I can’t believe you got off so easy!” And then I mentioned the incident to someone else, sort of a savvy ISKCON leader. He said, “Yeah, sure, you should have put the blame on the Member of Parliament, you’ve got to cover for yourself.” So, that was one mistake that came to mind.

But the next mistake was actually a little more subtle, and I told it in Dallas. It was the same period, 1977. Srila Prabhupada was ill. He was living in his new quarters in Juhu, but he wasn’t coming down, he was just basically confined to his quarters. And one morning, I came up, and Goswami Maharaja was there. He was the secretary, so there was another desk. When you would come into the quarter, that was Goswami’s Maharaja desk, the place is still there. Anyway, I wanted to keep his picture there, but at the time, it wasn’t politically correct, but now let’s put his picture there. But anyway, when you went in there, it was very nice. He also had the same style carved with a desk, very imposing and impressive.

So, he greeted me as a friend and mentioned that he wanted me to go to the bank. So, at the time, I was thinking, No! First of all, I’m the temple president, why do I have to go to the bank? Some of the other devotees can go. And I was also thinking, although it wasn’t so clear in my mind then, but I think I was also thinking, Who are you to tell me to go to the bank? So, really having a little discussion. And the whole idea was to protect Srila Prabhupada, because there was the secretary’s room, then there was another room, which was sort of a waiting room where all Prabhupada’s books were on display, and then there was the entrance to Prabhupada’s room, and that door was always closed, and we would always talk softly in the outer area so it wouldn’t disturb Srila Prabhupada.

But suddenly, the bell rang, so we both went in; and suddenly, Srila Prabhupada was preaching to me, you could say. He said, “If the spiritual master asks you to go to the bank and you refuse, that is not surrender.” So, first I thought Prabhupada could not possibly have heard our discussion, but Krishna must have inspired him. The second thing I thought was that I was seeing Goswami Maharaja independent of Srila Prabhupada, I was thinking that he is just my godbrother, but Srila Prabhupada’s statement made me think that I should have seen Goswami Maharaja as Prabhupada’s representative, that Prabhupada’s order was coming to me through him. So, that was, I guess, sort of a mistake.

And there was another one.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:21:13]

Giriraj Swami: That’s true, it could take a long time, I might spend the rest of the day I’m here. Okay, one more. This was very late, I think it was actually November fourth, just ten days before Srila Prabhupada left, and basically, Srila Prabhupada trusted me with the legal work and the bank affairs.

And so, just in the last ten days, he wanted to form the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, and getting anything done in India was very difficult, and to get the Trust registered, I had to go to Mathura, to the court, and it’s a whole procedure. And it was hot then. Although it was November, it was very hot. Anyway, I went through the whole procedure. It took hours and hours, and in those days, we only basically took buses and rickshaws. Just getting there took time, moving around took time, getting back took time. And I did it, came back late, weary, and hungry, and hot, and dirty, but I did it. So then, I gave the document to Goswami Maharaja, and only then took a little prasāda and just went to take rest.

Then sometime later, while I was sleeping, Goswami Maharaja came to my little room and banged on the door, “Open the door!” And he said, “Boy, did you blow it! I can’t believe it! You went all the way to Mathura, and you registered the Trust in the wrong name! Prabhupada wanted The Bhaktivedanta Swami Memorial Trust, and you registered it as The Bhaktivedanta Memorial Trust. Prabhupada was furious.” And I said, “I’m sorry, I’ll go tomorrow and redo it. I’ll do it again.”

But I was so elated, I was actually elated, that Goswami Maharaja considered his relationship with Srila Prabhupada, his service to Srila Prabhupada so important, much more important than his relationship with me, because it was obvious he wasn’t thinking about his relationship with me, but he was thinking about our service to Srila Prabhupada. I was really elated after that, I knew that no way that our relationship was mundane or anything. It only existed for Srila Prabhupada’s service.

So, enough for now. Any other questions?

Devotee: I was reading the new Back to Godhead, and I was reading the article by [Unintelligible 00:25:46].

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: I read something, I just thought it was really amazing. Maybe you could comment a little bit on this. One statement there says that in a time of great distress, such as when a disciple’s spiritual master leaves, and because of that intense separation and distress, the disciples may feel they can, in that state, experience Krishna, and actually see Krishna due to that separation they are feeling. It was part of a purport of Srila Prabhupada about the story of King Puranjana.

And actually, in the last part of that story, where King Puranjana leaves his body and comes back as a woman, because when he left, he was thinking of his wife. And so therefore, she loses her husband, so she is in distress. And at that time, a brahman comes to her. That part of the story was Prabhupada’s written purport, and this statement is part of that purport. I thought it was really amazing when I read it. Can you comment on that?

Giriraj Swami: Well, I don’t remember. . . I mean, I read the article, yes, I read the whole issue, and I thought the article was very appropriate. And as you just said, after Srila Prabhupada left, I came across the verses of the Fourth Canto about the disappearance of the spiritual master by chance, and I was actually thinking of. . . Well, I was going to look at the next few verses from the Eleventh Canto, but I was thinking, maybe ask Shyamasundara Prabhu permission to speak on the section from the Fourth Canto, the disappearance of the spiritual master.

But after the husband dies, and figuratively, the husband is the spiritual master, figuratively, the wife is the disciple, as you mentioned, the brahman appears and says, “I’m your old friend.” Now, the brahman represents Krishna, or the Supersoul, who comes to give guidance to the disciple after the spiritual master leaves. But in the purport, Srila Prabhupada quotes Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, that why did Krishna come in the form of the brahman? Why did He not come in His original form, Shyamasundara?

And the answer is that unless one is highly elevated in love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one cannot see Him as He is in His original form, but that if one sticks to the orders of the spiritual master, he associates with the Supreme Lord. And the idea is that when the disciple is so pure in heart that he is ready to give up his life for the mission of the spiritual master, then Krishna appears to the disciple to give him further guidance. And Prabhupada quotes the verse

TEXT 10

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ
yena mām upayānti te

COMMENT

That the Supersoul from within the heart gives guidance to the sincere disciple, and by continuing to follow the orders of the spiritual master, the disciple eventually comes to the stage where he actually can see the original form of Krishna.

Now, many years ago, quite soon after Srila Prabhupada left, I wrote a letter to Satsvarupa Maharaja, in which I said that I believe that Srila Prabhupada is aware of everything that’s happening in ISKCON, and that he is feeling the pain of the failures and feeling the joy of the successes, but that he is the real hero, and I compared him to Shah Jahan.

I don’t know if you are familiar with the talk where Srila Prabhupada mentions a book written by a Bengali author called Shah Jahan. And there was once a party in Calcutta, and one of the guests asked the author, “Why did you name the book Shah Jahan? Because the whole book is about the exploits of Aurangzeb, who is the son of Shah Jahan, who imprisoned his own father.” And the author replied, “No, the actual hero is not Aurangzeb, the actual hero is Shah Jahan, because all the time that Aurangzeb was doing so many things, Shah Jahan was in the prison and he was getting the news that Aurangzeb was doing this and doing that, and his heart was beating.” So, I compared Srila Prabhupada to Shah Jahan in the sense that he is the real hero because he knows everything that’s happening in ISKCON, and everything is beating in his heart.

So, Satsvarupa Maharaja wrote back, “How can you say that Srila Prabhupada knows everything that’s happening in ISKCON? As far as we understand, Srila Prabhupada is somewhere else in the material world preaching, or he is serving Krishna in the spiritual world. But on what basis do you say that Srila Prabhupada knows? This is just some sentiment.”

So, I was quite taken aback by Satsvarupa’s reply because I held him in the highest esteem. When I joined in Boston, he was the temple president. But somehow, I didn’t want to conceive the point. Somehow, I thought Prabhupada did know, but I didn’t have any evidence, and I had to find some evidence. So, I waited some time and I read, and I found different things, and I think the quotation that was the most compelling for me was from the concluding words to Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, where Srila Prabhupada writes, “Whatever work I have done has been by the direct inspiration of my Guru Maharaja.” And then of course, tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye, and he says that spiritual inspiration comes from within the heart, where the Lord and all of His associates are sitting.

So then, I thought, Well, it’s not just the Lord who is in the heart, but He is there with His associates. And the implication of Prabhupada’s words was that his Guru Maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, was there in his heart, guiding him and inspiring his translation work. So, I concluded in the same way, that Srila Prabhupada is also in the heart with the Supersoul. So, when I read that after the disappearance of the spiritual master, the Supersoul appears to guide the sincere disciple, and then too in the guise of a brahman, I don’t take it that the guidance and inspiration comes just from the Supersoul, but that the guidance and inspiration can come from one’s own spiritual master, and it’s not just a sentiment, it’s a belief, it’s not just a sentiment.

And once, I asked the same question to another senior devotee, and he replied that the Supersoul is in the heart of the spiritual master, and therefore in one sense, receiving guidance from the spiritual master and receiving guidance from the Supersoul are the same. And in the purport also, Srila Prabhupada mentions that the spiritual master is the external manifestation of the Supersoul. But my own way of perceiving it is that the inspiration comes from the spiritual master within the heart, and there are many other quotations, evidence from the scriptures that the liberated soul can be in more than one place at the same time. One disciple asked Srila Prabhupada, “How can the same devotee be in the kṛṣṇa-līlā and at the same time be in caitanya-līlā?” And Srila Prabhupada said that the soul in the liberated condition has inconceivable purposes.

But I got the impression that one doesn’t immediately see Krishna in His threefold bending form in Vrindavan. When one is in distress after the disappearance of the spiritual master, Krishna as Paramātmā appears to the sincere disciple to give him guidance.

Devotee: Sometimes maybe extraordinary events happening, maybe at a time, maybe a few different times in the devotee’s life where he feels Krishna is really directly guiding events, sometimes to just get the realization. I mean, we are aware all the time that Krishna is in control of everything, but sometimes maybe you get a feeling or realization, “Wow, Krishna is really directly guiding these events.”

Giriraj Swami: Oh, that’s true, that we can perceive. In that sense, we can see Krishna, that He is guiding us and guiding the events.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:41:07] seniors seeing Krishna at a time of distress, and you were saying it could also be you are connecting your spiritual master in a different way from this way [Unintelligible 00:41:31]. I don’t know what I’m asking today, but did Krishna appear to you at a time of distress when you are missing your spiritual master, you are missing a Vaishnava or through another Vaishnava or another person in the same way?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. I mean, when I thought deeply about the example of Krishna appearing as the brahman, I thought that’s the way He would appear to us in most cases, in the form of a Vaishnava. And there is one very nice quotation from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura where he says that one will see his Gurudeva and those that were close to his Gurudeva, and if I don’t see my Gurudeva, then how will my Gurudeva guide me? And then, in the same quotation, he says, “But I will never ever look on the face of one who blasphemes my Gurudeva.”

So, it can be either from within the heart. I mean, there is no difference, because say Krishna is in your heart, He gives you some instruction, or Krishna is in my heart and He inspires me to give you the same instruction. But I would say that as I perceive things, or experience things, it’d be more like Srila Gurudeva is in your heart or Srila Gurudeva is in my heart and might inspire me to say something, but it’s still the same person. But again, Krishna was in Srila Gurudeva’s heart and inspired him. So, like Prabhupada says in the concluding words, “The Lord is accompanied by His associates within the heart.” They are not separate. And we don’t want separate.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:45:58]

Giriraj Swami: Well, in a general sense, we have to surrender to our spiritual master more, but how we do it may vary from person to person, because each one is individual. So, for some, it may be surrendering to the holy name more. I’ll just finish the sentence, I don’t know what to do otherwise. For some, it may be surrendering to the holy name, or for others, it may be surrendering to the scriptures more, for others, it may be meditating on Srila Gurudeva’s direct instructions more, for others, it may be taking shelter of the association of like-minded devotees more. Because we are always individual, we have our own individual way, but the ultimate goal is to surrender to the spiritual master more, and serve the spiritual master better. And that will bring us closer, bring you close to us, and that’s the method for sure to serve the spiritual master without reservation. But again, how to feel more connected to the spiritual master, more clear about how to serve him, and how to actually serve him better, varies from person to person.

And I saw that Srila Prabhupada also said some people were more inclined to chanting, some were more inclined to reading, some were more inclined to just rendering service, and Srila Prabhupada encouraged all of them. He didn’t encourage the ones that were in the mood of personal service to him more than he encouraged others who were in the mood of serving him in other ways.

I mean, from my own experience, and again, I’m just one person, other devotees could have other experiences, but from my own experience, the main process is chanting, and the scriptures also tell us that the main process is chanting. So, that’s the basis, and then serving devotees. And it’s also Lord Chaitanya’s instructions, “Chant the holy name and serve the devotees.” Somehow or other, fix your mind on Krishna, [Unintelligible 00:51:05]. Somehow or other, serve Srila Gurudeva.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

Sri Sri Radha-Nilamadhava ki jaya! Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Srila Gurudeva ki jaya!