Interview on Lord Jagannatha

Question: Talk about the ecstasy and benediction of Lord Jagannatha linking to the Ratha-yatra Festival.

Giriraj Swami:  Lord Jagannatha is a very ecstatic form of the Lord and He takes great pleasure in giving benediction to the living entities. In the modern age, which is called Kali-yuga in Vedic literatures, people are too busy to go to the temple or the church or synagogue, so Lord Jagannatha is God, who out of His mercy comes out of the temple to meet the people and to give them benediction. And He feels great ecstasy when the living entities come to him. 

Once our spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, gave the name Bhavananda to one disciple and the disciple asked Srila Prabhupada what does the name mean. Srila Prabhupada explained that bhava means this material existence and ānanda means bliss. So Bhavananda means the bliss of the material world. So the disciple was surprised, “What is the meaning, what is Prabhupada saying?” Then Srila Prabhupada explained that the devotee experiences pleasure when the Lord feels pleasure and the Lord feels the greatest pleasure when new souls come to him, or when conditioned souls come to Him. And conditioned souls will come to Him only in the material world. In the spiritual world, all the souls are already liberated. Only in the material world do the conditioned souls come to Him. And the Lord feels the greatest pleasure when they come to Him. So Bhavananda means the pleasure of the material world, the pleasure of preaching. The pleasure of bringing people to Krishna. And that gives the greatest pleasure to Krishna and the greatest pleasure to the devotee, to the preacher. So the devotees work hard to organize the Ratha-yatra festival and to attract the fallen souls to receive the merciful benediction of Lord Jagannatha and by their efforts, Lord Jagannatha feels the greatest ecstasy when the conditioned souls come to him and because Lord Jagannatha feels the greatest ecstasy, the devotees and all of the participants in Ratha-yatra also feel great ecstasy. 

Question: When was the first time you saw Lord Jagannatha? What was the emotion, the feeling you had as a young—you know—new devotee. Can you explain to someone who has never seen Lord Jagannatha, but who is willing to come to Ratha-yatra to experience that emotion?

Giriraj Swami:  The first time that I saw Lord Jagannatha was in the Boston temple where I had first met Srila Prabhupada and come to the devotees. 

And the devotees explained to me that Lord Jagannatha is one of the most merciful forms of God. He doesn’t consider the offenses of the living entities. He just gives benediction to them. His face itself is full of ecstasy: His eyes are open wide, His smile is broad and He is in an ecstatic mood. And in His ecstatic mood, not only does He give benediction to the fallen souls, who may see Him for the first time, but he also fulfills the desires of His devotees who want to serve Him in different ways. So Lord Jagannatha is a very merciful form of Godhead. And devotees can take full advantage of His mercy in Ratha-yatra. 

Question: What is your fondest memory of Srila Prabhupada? 

Giriraj Swami:  Well, one memory comes to mind—there were so many, but. . . I first met Srila Prabhupada in Boston in 1969 when he came to speak at one university. At the time, he would alternate speaking Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at the temple and Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday either at some university or some other public venue. And then on Sunday would be the Sunday festival and “Love Feast.” So, one evening Srila Prabhupada spoke at Boston College and in general, the devotees would perform kirtan before Prabhupada spoke. Then Srila Prabhupada would speak and then again, the devotees would perform kirtan after the talk and questions and answers. So, we were dancing in a circle in front of Srila Prabhupada, after the lecture. And somehow, when I was dancing in the circle and chanting, my heart was just overwhelmed with love—love for Krishna, love Prabhupada, and love for everyone who was in the room, even people I had never seen before and probably would never see again. I just felt so much love for every living entity and I was so overwhelmed, that after the chanting and after Srila Prabhupada recited the prayers he would say after the chanting, I just went up to him spontaneously and I said, “Swamiji, this chanting is wonderful!” And he could see how excited I was. Then Srila Prabhupada smiled so broadly and his eyes opened so wide, almost like Lord Jagannatha Himself, and he was filled with ecstasy. I could feel that he was filled with ecstasy and when he smiled the whole room, was flooded with the ecstasy from within his heart. He just smiled and looked at me and said, “Thank you very much.” And that said it all. He didn’t even have to speak any words, just his smile and his ecstasy said it all. He was feeling the ecstasy of Krishna Consciousness and he was feeling the ecstasy that the devotee feels when some new soul begins to awaken to Krishna consciousness. 

Question: Someone might ask that I have the health the wealth and the world. I am a good soul. I take care of poor people. I give money in charity. I build hospitals. I have my God. I think—I drink, I do all of this stuff but, why do you think your God is [more] Good than mine, let’s say Allah or Krishna—I mean Allah or Christ? Why do I have to look for kṛṣṇa-prema? Could you explain to me?

Giriraj Swami:  Well there is only one God, one Supreme Being and he is addressed differently in differently languages and different cultures. Someone may call him Allah. Someone may call him Jehovah. Someone may call him Krishna. But any nomenclature which is meant to refer to the Supreme Being is as good as any other nomenclature. On the absolute platform every name of God is as good as every other. And we encourage people to chant any name of God they like, whatever name of God they find in their scripture. If someone is not chanting any name of God, we encourage them to chant Hare Krishna, because five hundred years ago god himself, Krishna, came to earth as Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And as Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu He specifically introduced the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra: 

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

He did teach that one can chant any name of God and that all of the names of God are as good as all of the others on the absolute platform. But still, if one like he can chant Hare Krishna and he can chant for hours on end. The words to the Hare Krishna maha-mantra are so scientifically arranged that one can chant hour after hour after hour, day after day after day, year after year after year. As Srila Prabhupada and so many devotees, so many of his followers, have done and are doing even until today. But because God Himself has come as Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and introduced the chanting of Hare Krishna, so we chant Hare Krishna. And the Hare Krishna maha-mantra is mentioned in the most ancient of scriptures. It is mentioned in the Vedic literature in the Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad and other ancient texts. So it is not a new invention. It is not something that Prabhupada manufactured, or Prabhupada’s guru concocted. It is actually an eternal transcendental sound vibration. It existed even before the scriptures were recorded. But even then the Vedic literatures, which are the oldest known to man on Earth do mention the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. And God Himself as Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu chanted Hare Krishna and he chanted Hare Krishna at the Jagannatha Ratha-yatra festival in Puri, India. So that is why we chant Hare Krishna. But if someone wants to chant any other name of God we encourage him or her as well. 

Question: Maharaja, I noticed sometimes as devotees when you live in small communities there is always tension sometimes because of the separation things. And what really touched me the most for this, I been a devotee for years now but have been living in the ashram for eight months. What I noticed that people who are intensely disagreeing things day before Ratha-yatra, next morning they were like, when they saw Lord Jagannatha coming out from the sickness room to the car I filming, I was watching it, they were in tears, maybe hugging and dancing together. Can you tell people who are not aware of that? 

Giriraj Swami:  Yes, Jagannatha Ratha-yatra can unite all people, what to speak of all devotees it can unite all people, Hindus, Christians, Muslims, even atheists can be attracted by the beauty of the festival and by the beauty of the singing and the dancing and the feasting. So it is the mercy of Lord Jagannatha, it is the love of Lord Jagannatha. Lord Jagannatha feels so much love for the living entities, he floods them with love on Ratha-yatra. And because of the love that they receive from Lord Jagannatha, or the love that Lord Jagannatha awakens within their hearts, they feel love for each other and for everyone and they shed their inhibitions, they transcend their false egos. And their natural love for God and for all of his children, for all of his parts and parcels, their natural love for everyone comes out. If we could maintain the same level of God consciousness or Krishna consciousness all the time, we would always be filled with love for everyone all the time and then Lord Jagannatha would really be happy.

Question: Maharaja, there is a verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, I want to show you, because people see the young people who are not taking any drugs, any alcohol, three days before the festival the plays and all the Gurukulas just ecstasy. And friends of mine, who are karmis, came to see and say “you mean these kids are not high? You are telling me—that person is really high!—the drugs, you know” and I am telling “No it is the love of God. 

Giriraj Swami:  That is right. 

Devotee: So I was going to use that shot of the film over your voice reciting this verse. 

Giriraj Swami:  Yes

Devotee: To show that if that is okay with you.

Giriraj Swami:  

viṣayā vinivartante
nirāhārasya dehinaḥ
rasa-varjaṁ raso ‘py asya
paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate

The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment though the taste for sense objects remains but ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste he is fixed in such consciousness.

So when the living entities experience the bliss of Krishna Consciousness they feel exhilarated, they feel high, but it is not the artificial high induced by material substances. It is the natural high that occurs when the individual soul comes in contact with the Supreme Soul in reciprocation of love. So we don’t need any artificial stimulation or any artificial intoxication, but we become intoxicated with love of Godhead. 

Devotee: Thank you. I was going to ask about Tamal Krishna and it is too dark now. 

Giriraj Swami:  We can go inside. 

Devotee: And then I could show you we could rewind it, you could see it. And what I was going to do, like Ranganatha Maharaja, whatever you did today, I put together editing for your interview and all this stuff and then you could give it to your disciples, you could distribute to your disciples, you know as a gift to be my service to you. 

Giriraj Swami:  Okay, that is nice.

Devotee: And then you will get a copy of the whole film, like an hour, an hour and a half documentary which will be used all for your interview. 

Giriraj Swami:  Okay, that is fine. 

Devotee: Okay.

Giriraj Swami:  Okay we are going inside.

Part II: Sripad Giriraj Swami Speaking About Some Departed Vaishnavas

Giriraj Swami:  Srila Prabhupada said that when a devotee leaves, we feel simultaneously happy and sad. We feel happy because we know the devotee is going to Krishna, to serve Krishna and we feel sad because we miss the devotee’s association. So we know that His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami has gone to Srila Prabhupada, to serve Sri Krishna and we are happy for him. But as far as we who are left to serve in separation, we miss him and we feel sorry that we are bereft of his association. Even then, when we remember his service and his instructions and our association with him we can feel his presence even now. Therefore, we become very inspired to continue to serve him in separation. 

To serve him means really to serve Srila Prabhupada because his whole life was dedicated to serving Srila Prabhupada. And he completely identified with Srila Prabhupada’s mission. Practically any aspect of Srila Prabhupada’s mission, of Srila Prabhupada’s movement, we see Tamal Krishna Goswami—his service. So to serve Tamal Krishna Goswami means to serve Srila Prabhupada’s mission, as Srila Prabhupada would want. By such service we can feel Tamal Krishna Goswami’s presence and of course Srila Prabhupada’s presence and therefore we feel inspired even in separation. physical separation of Srila Prabhupada and Tamal Krishna Goswami and so many wonderful devotees who have come forward to serve Srila Prabhupada over the years. We know that they are engaged eternally in Srila Prabhupada’s service and we can be with them when we serve Srila Prabhupada also. 

Once Srila Prabhupada remarked that we will all one day go back to Godhead and have another ISKCON in the spiritual world. Of course, it may not be the form in which we know it here, but the essence will be there, which is service to Srila Prabhupada and through him, service to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Sri Sri Radha and Krishna. Hare Krishna!

Devotee: Thank you Maharaja, that was so lovely. I want to show you now the shot. So you can see it. 

Giriraj Swami:  So were not going to shoot anymore now?

Devotee: No, unless you want to talk more about Krishna.

Giriraj Swami:  Well are there going to be talks about other devotees.

Devotee: Yes

Giriraj Swami:  At the end of the movie? 

Devotee: Yes, exactly.

Giriraj Swami:  Probably like Prabhupada’s disciples like Jayananda.

Devotee: Yes and Madhudvisa and Svavasa

Giriraj Swami:  No but I mean. . .

Devotee: About who passed away?

Giriraj Swami:  Yes

Devotee: Unless you want to talk about it. 

Giriraj Swami:  No what I am saying is that, if we go into the next after our generation there are many. I don’t know if you are going to have any mention of them? They might be on the list. 

Devotee: Anyone that you could remember that you want to pay obeisances. It would be nice to record it. During their pictures, we could hear that and clips of you would come before the pictures come up and we go to their pictures. Any one you remember. 

Giriraj Swami:  There are these three. 

Devotee: These three would be perfect. 

Giriraj Swami:  Do you want to bring that picture?

Devotee: I shot them today. 

Giriraj Swami:  Those are okay?

Devotee: close ups of three of them.

Giriraj Swami:  So you will know who is who?

Devotee: No, I think I will start with Prabhu and I am going to [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami:  So when I am speaking, should I refer to the picture or just speak about the person. 

Devotee: Speak about the picture 

Giriraj Swami:  The devotee on the left is Ramananda Prabhu. He was actually born in an African body in South Africa and he joined the temple in Durban. He was always enthusiastic to serve, to chant, to honor prasāda, and he was very humble. He never had any pretensions and he was very respectful to all devotees. He never engaged in gossip or finding fault with devotees. He was always very respectful to everyone: men, women, children. And it was only after he left that we realized how great he was. Here we put his picture for a memorial service and every devotee in the temple here felt that they got so much mercy from his picture, we wanted to keep it and we realized that although he was very simple, he wasn’t a prominent devotee in one sense, but because of his purity of heart and his enthusiasm for every aspect of devotional service, he went to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, we are all convinced. 

The picture in the middle, is Mother Arca Vigraha. She was one of the most renowned artists in South Africa and she came in contact with the devotees. She became a devotee and she began to chant Hare Krishna and serve the devotees and paint for Krishna. In fact, the picture of Srila Prabhupada above me, was painted by her. But later, she was diagnosed as having cancer. She already built a house in Vrindavan with a studio and when she realized that she had cancer, she just moved entirely from her beautiful house in Johannesburg to her and studio in Vrindavan. And for the last months of her life. She was absorbed in hearing and chanting. Devotees would come to her every day and read to her about Krishna’s pastimes and she would relish. She had so much love for Krishna and she’d relish hearing the pastimes of Krishna so much that devotees were just inspired to come and read to her. But at the same time, she was always concerned about the devotees and she was never too busy for the devotees. No matter how much pain she was in personally, she always cared for the other devotees more. She also—I was there at the time she actually left her body. I was chanting and she also, I believe, went back home back to Godhead. And many other devotees believe so as well. 

The devotee at the right is mother Kirtida. She was also from South Africa, of Indian origin. She was initiated by Sripad Tamal Krishna Goswami. And she achieved such an exalted state of consciousness at the end. She was practically there in the spiritual world with Krishna and Balarama, Krishna and Radha. Although devotees generally want to go to Vrindavan to leave their bodies, as Srila Prabhupada himself did. When she asked her spiritual master Tamal Krishna Goswami, he instructed her to go to Dallas and inspire the devotees in Dallas and set the example, how to leave one’s body in Krishna Consciousness even in some city in the West. And I would phone her and speak to her sometimes. And at the end, she was unable to speak on the phone, but I would hear the kirtans that were being performed in her room and I felt that “I am in Vrindavan.” And not just in Vrindavan but in the presence of a very exalted Vaishnava. I would just listen. I would have the devotees just keep the telephone in the kirtan. I would just listen and feel transcendental love as if I was there myself in Vrindavan. In her last days, my dear godbrother, Kesava Bharati Prabhu was staying with me here, visiting. He also knew Mother Kirtida and I asked him what was it about her that made her eligible to go back to Godhead? What is it about Mother Arca Vigraha that made her eligible to go back to Godhead? Because I was thinking if I knew the secret, then I could do the same as they did and I could also go back to Godhead. Kesava Bharati Prabhu replied, “Selfless service.” The common characteristic was selfless service. They were ready to serve without reservation. They were always concerned about the Vaishnavas, about the Deities and of course the spiritual master. So if we could imbibe their mood of selfless service to Srila Prabhupada and his mission, and his devotees, we can all go back to Godhead without any doubt. 

Hare Krishna!

Devotee: Unless—Who else do you want to pay tribute to? Anyone you remember who passed away?

Giriraj Swami: I think that is enough. These are special devotees; we have their pictures.