SB 10.9.18–19 – Diwali—with Mother Urvasi—Part 01

Giriraj Swami: . . . Ayodhya celebrated His return by lighting lamps. They place lamps throughout the city to welcome Him. Within the Hindu calendar Diwali marks the new year and Hindus, well some Hindus, perform Lakshmi puja so that every year will be successful and they also make sure to repay their debts, any debts they have had from last year they try to repay by Diwali so that they don’t carry the debt in to the next year or they don’t carry the consequences of the late payment into the next year.

Srila Prabhupada, in his purport to the first verses of the chapter from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, ‘Mother Yasoda binds Lord Krishna with ropes,’ quotes Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura’s remark that Srila Sanatana Gosvami says, in his commentary on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the incident where mother Yasoda bound Lord Krishna with ropes took place on the day of Dīpāvalī. So there are many aspects to the occasion but because we have been reading from the Tenth Canto about dāmodara-līlā and because of another reason, which I will explain when I speak, we will make the theme of the class the continuation of the discussion of the dāmodara-līlā. 

Canto Ten, Chapter Nine, Text Eighteen:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.

TEXT 18

sva-mātuḥ svinna-gātrāyā
visrasta-kabara-srajaḥ
dṛṣṭvā pariśramaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ
kṛpayāsīt sva-bandhane

TRANSLATION

Because of mother Yaśodā’s hard labor, her whole body became covered with perspiration, and the flowers and comb were falling from her hair. When child Kṛṣṇa saw His mother thus fatigued, He became merciful to her and agreed to be bound.

PURPORT

When mother Yaśodā and the other ladies finally saw that Kṛṣṇa, although decorated with many bangles and other jeweled ornaments, could not be bound with all the ropes available in the house, they decided that Kṛṣṇa was so fortunate that He could not be bound by any material condition. Thus they gave up the idea of binding Him. But in competition between Kṛṣṇa and His devotee, Kṛṣṇa sometimes agrees to be defeated. Thus Kṛṣṇa’s internal energy, yoga-māyā, was brought to work, and Kṛṣṇa agreed to be bound by mother Yaśodā.

TEXT 19

evaṁ sandarśitā hy aṅga
hariṇā bhṛtya-vaśyatā
sva-vaśenāpi kṛṣṇena
yasyedaṁ seśvaraṁ vase

TRANSLATION

O Mahārāja Parīkṣit, this entire universe, with its great, exalted demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā and Lord Indra, is under the control of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yet the Supreme Lord has one transcendental attribute: He comes under the control of His devotees. This was now exhibited by Kṛṣṇa in this pastime.

PURPORT

This pastime of Kṛṣṇa’s is very difficult to understand, but devotees can understand it. It is therefore said, darśayaṁs tad-vidāṁ loka ātmano bhakta-vaśyatām (Bhāg. 10.11.9): the Lord displays the transcendental attribute of coming under the control of His devotees.

COMMENT

Let’s take a peep at 10.11.9.

TRANSLATION

To pure devotees throughout the world who could understand His activities, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, exhibited how much He can be subdued by His devotees, His servants. In this way He increased the pleasure of the Vrajavāsīs by His childhood activities.

PURPORT to 10.9.19 (cont’d)

As stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā (5.35):

eko ‘py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ
yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ
aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

By His one plenary portion as Paramātmā, the Lord controls innumerable universes, with all their demigods; yet He agrees to be controlled by a devotee. In the Upaniṣads it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead can run with more speed than the mind, but here we see that although Kṛṣṇa wanted to avoid being arrested by His mother, He was finally defeated, and mother Yaśodā captured Him. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam: Kṛṣṇa is served by hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune. Nonetheless, He steals butter like one who is poverty-stricken. Yamarāja, the controller of all living entities, fears the order of Kṛṣṇa, yet Kṛṣṇa is afraid of His mother’s stick. These contradictions cannot be understood by one who is not a devotee, but a devotee can understand how powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa; it is so powerful that Kṛṣṇa can be controlled by an unalloyed devotee. This bhṛtya-vaśyatā does not mean that He is under the control of the servant; rather, He is under the control of the servant’s pure love.

COMMENT

Because we are approaching Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance day I thought I would tell you how the verse affected me in my life around the time of Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance. Many of you probably know that in the days before Govardhana-puja Srila Prabhupada expressed his desire to go to the Govardhana-puja by bullock cart to participate in the festival and the disciples divided into two groups of opinions. Basically one group felt that Srila Prabhupada is our spiritual master and we should execute his order without consideration, and the other group felt that Srila Prabhupada who had practically no flesh on his body because of his illness—(He was just drinking some fruit juice at most and therefore he had no protection for his body.) So the other group of devotees felt that he would be in extreme pain on the bullock cart and that Srila Prabhupada was making progress by following the Kaviraja’s directions and that he should wait until he got stronger before he attempted to go on Tirtha-yatra and that if he attempted to go as he was, on a bullock cart on the rough roads of Vrindavan, that not only would he feel pain along the way but he could probably just give up his body. 

So the day before Govardhana-puja, in the evening Niṣkiñcana Krishnadasa Babaji Maharaja came to visit Srila Prabhupada and Bhakti Charu Swami was one of the disciples who were in the mood that Prabhupada should not undertake the journey and he sort of confided in Krishnadasa Babaji and wanted him to intervene and appeal to Prabhupada not to go. In the meantime, Tamal Krishna Goswami and Bhavananda Prabhu were upstairs and they were distraught and they were discussing with each other and then they came down very distressed. Basically Tamal Krishna Goswami requested Srila Prabhupada not to go and then Prabhupada turned towards Babaji Maharaja for his opinion and he, I guess, gave his indication better not to go now and Bhavananda Prabhu said that,” We have been in so much anxiety.” And Prabhupada said, “Well I won’t put you in anxiety. You have sacrificed so much for me; you have done so much for me. I will do what you want.” And then the devotees were relieved. There was a sense of not only relief but also jubilation. 

Just the next day was Govardhana-puja and then two days later Prabhupada left and even then the mood among the disciples were very strong, emotions were very strong and one group felt we should have just done what Prabhupada asked. We shouldn’t have speculated on the order of the spiritual master, the word of the spiritual master. We should have just done as he said and the other group felt—oh yes, yes—that is another point that after Prabhupada agreed not to go he turned towards Babaji Maharaja and said, “Just see how much affection they have for me.” And Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “The way you deal with us just increases our attachment for you every moment and Srila Prabhupada said, “That is my duty.” So they felt that Prabhupada had reciprocated with them and they felt justified what they had done. 

Personally I was a bit confused because they were senior devotees on both sides of the controversy and I didn’t really get involved in the controversy directly and after Prabhupada left it was still in my mind, may be it was in the mind of everyone, was definitely in my mind. So I used to go and chant in Srila Prabhupada’s room and even after he left I would go into his room and chant japa and the second volume of the Tenth Canto, in the old set, had just come out before Srila Prabhupada left and we were there when he looked through it and he was specially looking at the pictures, I mean, he just was showing so much love for Krishna when he was looking at the pictures—amazing. So I went behind his bed where the books were. I was just chanting, sort of looking at the pictures, sort of looking around and I saw the book. Without much thought I opened it up to the section, “Mother Yasoda binds Lord Krishna” and I started to read and I came to the verse we just came to—that Krishna comes under the control of the love of His devotees even though He is supremely independent and somehow I got the idea that that is what had happened that Srila Prabhupada voluntarily came under the love of the devotees and just as one of the themes here is that. Of course this is—anyway—I will say it but then I guess I will have to qualify it but just as one of the themes here is that spontaneous love is higher than love with awe and reverence. I felt that Srila Prabhupada was trying to draw that out of us. And he was so adamant that he wanted to go to Govardhana even before that for a while he was adamant that he didn’t want to drink which basically meant that he wanted to give up his body and there too the devotees thought that we just have to surrender and let Krishna do what He wants but then Prabhupada said that, “Krishna has given me the choice.” And Prabhupada said something like we should discuss. So then the devotees realized that if Krishna gave Prabhupada the choice, in the same Prabhupada seemed to give us the choice by telling us we should discuss. We discussed and concluded, I mean, I was one of the junior members but we all discussed and concluded that if Prabhupada is giving us the choice then we want to ask him to stay. So we went back into the room and Kirtan ānanda Swami, on behalf of the group, asked Prabhupada to stay and he agreed. 

So Prabhupada had already given the hint that we can exercise our free will, that he has free will and we can also exercise our free will. So in the incident about Prabhupada going to Govardhana on the bullock cart for Govardhana-puja I guess the one group of devotees felt that they should exercise their, in one sense, exercise their free will but they were not thinking that. They were just thinking that they were upset and in anxiety and they told Prabhupada and he reciprocated. So then when Tamal Krishna Goswami said that, “The way you deal with us, you are just increasing our attachment for you all the time.” And Prabhupada said, “That is my duty.” It was like he was bringing us to a higher level of spontaneous love for him and in one sense I felt that was the final lesson. Everyone agrees that in Prabhupada’s last days or in his departure he taught us the final lesson and in one sense the final lesson is how to leave one’s body but in another sense I felt that the final lesson was how to experience and express spontaneous love. I mean, of course, we are always conscious that Prabhupada was our spiritual master but those devotees had their loving feelings and their loving reciprocation with them and Prabhupada reciprocated and that is what I got out of reading these verses in Prabhupada’s room after he left—that just as Krishna is supremely independent but still He allowed Himself to be bound by the love of mother Yasoda, so Srila Prabhupada allowed himself to be bound by the love of his devotees. 

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! 

I finished in time.

Mother Urvashi: Maharaja, so you experienced at those final days that Srila Prabhupada allowed himself to come under the control of his disciples and making decisions for him and he would agree. Did you experience that at other times in Prabhupada’s worldwide travels—always pretty much like Prabhupada’s disciples just followed exactly what he wanted like in opening temples and making decisions like that they go against what Srila Prabhupada first said and then Prabhupada agreed?

Giriraj Swami: Well, yes, Prabhupada reciprocated with the devotees all along. I mean there were cases where Prabhupada was very firm on what he wanted like I remember at one stage some of the devotees got disgusted with India and with the lack of response from the people of India and I remember we were staying at Bhogilal Patel’s house. I mean Srila Prabhupada was staying there and I walked by the room and there were Tamal and Gargamuni in the room sort like arguing with him like I overheard probably Gargamuni saying, “Prabhupada, we are just wasting our time here. We should go back to the West.” But Prabhupada was adamant. He had his mission. He had his mission to spread Krishna consciousness in India and he wasn’t going to be like bowled over by Tamal Krishna Goswami or Gargamuni Swami. But in other situations Prabhupada did respond to the wishes of the devotees and sometimes even if they didn’t ask. I mean, even if they didn’t ask Prabhupada to reverse a decision but Prabhupada would just know what they wanted and then agree and one example was when Tejyas Prabhu in Delhi had arranged a program for Srila Prabhupada and Prabhupada didn’t really want to go because he has been staying in Bombay and struggling with the whole issue of the land and the permission to build and his health wasn’t that good and he really didn’t want to go and the devotees around him were supporting him but in the end Prabhupada said he would go and the reason he gave was that if he didn’t go Tejyas would feel discouraged. So it is not even that Tejyas had to say, you know, “Prabhupada please come. I have made so many arrangements for you.” Prabhupada knew he made so many arrangements and certainly Tejyas didn’t say, “I will be very disappointed if you don’t come.” But Prabhupada just knew that he would be discouraged if he didn’t come and he did not want to discourage him. So he came even though he wasn’t feeling well, probably he had other priorities.

So that was there and later when Caitanya-caritāmṛta came out, I started to see more and more resemblance between the way Lord Chaitanya dealt with His devotees and the way Srila Prabhupada dealt with his devotees like specially when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu wanted to leave Puri, the devotees didn’t want to give Him permission to go. There was always some sort of tug of war and Lord Chaitanya sort of came to an agreement with the devotees because they wanted Him to stay but at the same time they knew He wanted to go. They did not want to frustrate His desire, say to go to Vrindavan. So they reached a compromise. He would stay till Rama Vijayadashami, or whatever and then they would give Him permission. Not that He needed their permission but out of love He allowed Himself to be, you know, He submitted Himself to their will. He just didn’t act independently as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He submitted Himself to their will and His loving exchanges with Jagadananda Pandit. Jagadananda Pandit would offer Him very opulent items like oil for His body and I think he offered Him a mattress because Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was sleeping on a thin mat on the floor. Lord Chaitanya was setting the example of austerity in the renounced order of life and He didn’t actually want to accept what Jagadananda Pandit was offering but at the same time He knew that if He didn’t then Jagadananda Pandit would be upset. There is one verse somewhere that Lord Chaitanya, for the sake of His devotees, would sometimes transgress the regulative principles, I mean, not something very gross. At the time the Hindu society was very rigid and there were so many rules and regulations for brahmans, so many rules and regulations for sannyasis but sometimes out of love for His devotees, He would break them. He didn’t want to disappoint them. He wanted to reciprocate with their love for Him. So when I started to read the later chapters of Caitanya-caritāmṛta and how Lord Chaitanya reciprocated with His devotees and He would submit His plans to His devotees for their approval, I saw that is how Prabhupada dealt with us. 

Mother Urvashi: In the last days of Prabhupada’s life like you said the final test were the devotees [unclear] were so supercharged with the emotions and love and attachment for Srila Prabhupada and that was the decision hanging—to be with Prabhupada, not to be with Prabhupada—.

Giriraj Swami: It was like the extreme.

Mother Urvashi: The ultimate.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, the ultimate and the same thing happened when Kirtan ānanda Swami—we had the meeting and we all came in the room and Kirtan ānanda Swami said to Srila Prabhupada, “If Krishna gives you the choice, then don’t leave. We need you.” And then Prabhupada, I guess you could say, paused to consider—there was some time everyone would just be waiting with complete anxiety and then he sort of yawned and said, “All right.” But still no one was quite sure what was happening because it was so intense and we were in so much of anxiety and then Prabhupada said, “So bring me something to drink.” Because that had been the issue that Prabhupada had stopped drinking and we knew that if he stopped drinking he was just going to leave and he had already told us that his father gave up his body by stopping drinking. That is one way a person gives up his body when the time comes. So then when Prabhupada said, “So bring me something to drink.” then all the devotees said, “Jaya Srila Prabhupada!” And then Prabhupada said, “This is real affection.”

So he was very grave in the sense that he didn’t really openly disclosed what was in his mind and often he and again I don’t know—sometimes I think he was just under the control of Krishna or yoga-māyā and sometimes I think he was very conscious of everything he did but at the time, I guess being as naïve as I was, I couldn’t distinguish how much he did consciously and how much he did by divine inspiration without like any calculation about the effect of what he would do but the result was certainly that he like brought us to the point of almost going mad and then like insisting like both. First he was insisting, “I am not going to drink. You know there are so many problems already with my body and there are going to be so many more as time goes on. So I am just going to stop drinking and die peacefully.” And the mood of the devotees was sort of on the other side then like whatever he wants sort of, wasn’t actually very nice, in retrospect, wasn’t actually very nice. 

Mother Urvashi: You mean the mood was not very nice or the consequence was not very nice.

Giriraj Swami: No, the mood in retrospect means—alright the mood was—in effect we were saying, “If you want to go, you can go.” which I don’t think was very nice. But, of course, in the mood of he is the guru and we are the disciples. The guru is independent and he can do whatever he likes, it is alright. But I am saying in retrospect when Prabhupada sort of brought us to a higher understanding in retrospect now when I think say, “Oh it is ok you can go.” I don’t think that was very nice. It wasn’t in our hearts. I don’t think it was in our heart of hearts but we just got into this mood that we thought was coming from Prabhupada. He was surrendered to Krishna, whatever Krishna wanted he was going to accept. If Krishna wanted to take him, he would go. If Krishna wanted to allow him to stay, he would stay. So we sort of took up the same mood of surrender. And then when Prabhupada said, “Krishna has given me the choice. Krishna has given me full freedom.” It was like a complete reversal of everything that he had said before and everything that we had thought and that sort of opened up our desires, allowed us to open up our hearts and expressed our desires and then after that the mood changed for many of the devotees. They were in the mood, “We want him to stay. We want him to get better.” 

So then when he said he wanted to go to Govardhana on the bullock cart, then some of the devotees, you know, “No you will suffer on the way. You will probably give up your body on the way. We want you to stay. We want you to get better, and then you can go to Govardhana. Then you can go everywhere but first we want you to get better.” And that I believe I got the idea from here, was higher. But again, I mean, Prabhupada was grave. He didn’t say anything or do anything to discourage the other devotees. He just agreed to stay and it reminds me of another time when Prabhupada asked—this is in the Juhu scheme we didn’t have a place for Prabhupada on the land yet. We were still struggling to get the land. And we had a life member who was sort of a devotee and a lawyer and Prabhupada was very anxious to get some news from him. So around six thirty in the morning, Prabhupada sent Tamal Krishna Goswami to phone him. We had no phone then. I don’t know he went out to some neighbor to use the phone and when he phoned the lawyer’s house, his wife answered and Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “Prabhupada wants some information and I want to speak to Mr. Asnani?’ So Mrs Asnani, may be, consulted him and then she came back and told Tamal Krishna Goswami that he is doing his puja and that he should phone back later.

So Tamal Krishna Goswami was very upset. He came back to Prabhupada and then reported what happened, sort of like, “Here is the pure devotee. He wants some information and Mr. Asnani is busy with his puja.” But Prabhupada, he said that at his stage, referring to Mr. Asnani, at his stage it is actually good that he is rigid like that. So Prabhupada, I mean this is another part of Prabhupada’s genius or wonder that he encourages devotees on all levels. He gave the devotees who are ready the chance to sort of come to a higher level and open their hearts to him and express their feelings for him and to him and express their desire to keep him but he didn’t discourage the other devotees who were in the mood that, you know, “Prabhupada wants to go. We have to execute his will and we can’t speculate on his instructions and we have to just serve his desires.” He didn’t discourage that. He never said this is real affection and that is not. He just said this or he said to Babaji Maharaja, “Just see how much they love me.” He never said the other people—. So that was his wonder that was his wonder that he could encourage devotees on all levels.

Mother Urvashi: And probably next into that other mood was also deep love for Prabhupada, not wanting him to suffer anymore that he was suffering in this present body. If he had the choice to go and they were thinking maybe they didn’t want him to just suffer anymore. If he could go, maybe he should go.

Giriraj Swami: Well that is a valid concern. I know I felt that way about my father. I wanted him to stay but not that he was going to have to suffer. If he is meant to suffer and then—

Mother Urvashi: My mother too in her last days. She was suffering so much. Her body wasn’t fit for the soul to stay. I am sure those last days with Prabhupada was just tumultuous with all kinds just extreme emotions.

Giriraj Swami: That is true.

Mother Urvashi: Thank you for sharing this with us. It was wonderful.

Giriraj Swami: Well some of it was there, in my heart, but you brought out more by your questions. 

Mother Urvashi: [Unclear]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I think we were being pulled along by his mercy and his potency and we didn’t realize how much difference his personal presence made, how much effect his departure would have. I remember according to the system we waited for two weeks then we had a festival of separation in Vrindavan, and then we left for Calcutta to go to Mayapur with the flowers for the Pushpa samadhi in Mayapur. So we had to leave early in the morning to catch a flight from Delhi to Calcutta and we just couldn’t get out. We just couldn’t get out. I mean there were a number of us but we just couldn’t get it together, have all our bags and eventually we got out. We raced to the airport and made for the flight. When we were struggling just sort of pack our bags in the trunk and get on our way, one of the devotees commented then that actually Srila Prabhupada was doing everything. We only thought we were doing everything. Actually he was doing everything. And I can see we can’t even pack our bags in the trunk to leave for the airport. 

Sarvatma Prabhu: That is what happened to the Kurus and to Arjuna when Krishna left. Arjuna couldn’t even shoot an arrow anymore. He was defeated for the first time.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. I mean last year was the first year that I actually thought about Prabhupada’s departure. I guess in some language one can say I was in denial. I always talked about how Prabhupada is still present which he is but not in the same way and obviously if he was present as he was before, things would be a lot different. I mean, he is present but not in the same way and it is a lot harder—-but anyway. He is present and many devotees realized his presence but they realized his presence in the context of their relationship with him and so like different devotees have different realizations and some devotees have similar realizations but there is no standard specially so many leaders fell down and devotees lost faith. Even though there may be many devotees who have the same realizations but no one it is like it is sort of free from all but—. It is funny because when Devamrita Swami was here a few days ago he gave class and we had a discussion. The conclusion of the discussion was that all the problems in ISKCON are due to lack of faith in Srila Prabhupada. I used to think the problems were due to offenses but somehow from that discussion we concluded that –anyway.

Mother Urvashi: It is kind of the same thing.

Giriraj Swami: They go together. They go together.

Mother Urvashi: Due to offenses you lose your faith.

Giriraj Swami: That is true.

Mother Urvashi: You lose your faith.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, and then you commit more offenses. Yes, they are probably two sides of the same coin.

Mother Urvashi: Prabhupada is still present and he is manifesting in our hearts like you say in our relationship that we have with him. That potency, that presence is only as strong as their realization of the relationship and that is hard to maintain on international basis as if he was here. We knew he was here and we followed his instructions whereas now it is an individual manifestation of the relationship.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, and there can be groups of devotees that have similar realizations or similar mood but that is sort of an expansion of the individual realizations. Like when Prabhupada was here we also had individual realizations but somehow whatever he decided, whatever he did was the end of it. That was the conclusion but now debates and controversies can go on without any conclusion about any event and that really saps our energy. But there is like Jagadananda Pandit wrote a book called prema-vivarta and the title of the book means something like ‘Tribulations of love’ or ‘Reversals and love.’ So from one point of view you can say the same thing that There may be different realizations but all the devotees of Prabhupada, they just have individual realizations but I think when Prabhupada was here his love for all of the devotees were so apparent that it was hard to even though there might be a difference of opinion or disagreement it was hard for one group to call the other group demons because Prabhupada obviously cared for all of them. He didn’t reject any of them. So how could we reject them? But now we don’t have like the palpable presence of Srila Prabhupada, like external manifestation of Srila Prabhupada’s presence to remind us how much he loves all the devotees and cares for all the devotees. So we can get wrapped up in our realizations, our point of view and think that people who disagree with us are demons or they should be smashed—really create very disturbing atmosphere. And then there is like the bodily differences. There is a lot of Indians. I guess it is everywhere blacks and whites and men and women, it is like all there but Prabhupada was here again it was like you could see he loved all the devotees. It was hard to forget it and I remember –I am just saying it because I am white or American.

One thing that Bhakti Charu Swami always says about when he first met Srila Prabhupada, how impressed he was by how much Srila Prabhupada loved the Americans, white people, the foreigners because most Indians, I guess everyone does but they have their own sense of cultural superiority especially when it comes to Krishna consciousness. So that was like very hard to maintain like this thing about Indians and Americans, couldn’t do that when Prabhupada was here but after he left it became very prominent, on a very major political platform, “We are Indians and they are foreigners,” couldn’t even be the other way but when Prabhupada was here we could see like his love for the soul transcended the body and that helped us transcend the body. Now there are so many groups based on the body. I mean in India it is very prominent, the Indians and the foreigners. There are also other groupings. I just got a letter from a black devotee saying he feels there is a lot of racism in ISKCON and the only thing that is keeping him in Krishna consciousness is Srila Prabhupada. Otherwise he would have probably become a Buddhist or Saivite or something. So he wrote.

Mother Urvashi: I never experienced that in my Krishna consciousness time, all the time I have served.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Mother Urvashi: Also I just want to say that when Srila Prabhupada was here if someone was kind of getting a little out there like checking out, Prabhupada would take a bit too far out there, kind of kept us on the path. I mean he allowed room. It was a wide path but if somebody kind of go out there he would bring us back but now there isn’t that because there is personal opinion about how to avoid Krishna consciousness and what Srila Prabhupada wanted, what Srila Prabhupada said. So it is kind of many tributaries. So we don’t have the benefit of one person. 

Giriraj Swami: I mean it is a challenge for us. Even though it is painful and difficult, his absence has created a challenge for us, which in principle, I cannot believe is beyond our capacity. I mean it may be hard right now for us to collectively come to a consensus but I think on an individual basis and again the individual realizations can be shared by a number of devotees of like mind. That is there and I don’t know—- It is difficult.

Mother Urvashi: It is eight fifty-five. I have to go.

Giriraj Swami: Ok.

Mother Urvashi: I have an appointment at nine o’clock to go.

Giriraj Swami: Do you have a cell phone?

Mother Urvashi: Yes, I will call them on the way.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, alright well, I am sure Prabhupada is pleased with you and our talk.

Mother Urvashi: He would probably make the person late. (Laughter)

Giriraj Swami: Well whatever it is I believe he is pleased with us, most important—

Mother Urvashi: I need to do some clean up landscaping on the hill as I pass by (referring to Govardhana Hill outside, made of prasādam)

Giriraj Swami: Sorry.

Mother Urvashi: The hill, I will do some landscaping.

Giriraj Swami: Oh. Oh the hill, yes yes. We have been needing that for a while.

Mother Urvashi: I almost did it before I came in. I said no way.

Giriraj Swami: That was nice.

Mother Urvashi: Thank you very much Maharaja for your wonderful class and for rearranging the schedule so that I could be here for class.

Giriraj Swami: Ok. So probably we will see you—Oh we might see you before, otherwise we will see you on Monday.

Mother Urvashi: Yes for sure. Ok Hare Krishna!

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna!

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Gaura-bhakta-vṛnda ki jaya!