Srila Prabhupada in Bombay—Interview for ITV—Part 01

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna!

Welcome to Srila Prabhupada in Bombay. His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was the Thirty-second spiritual master in a line of spiritual masters that began with Krishna Himself, who was accepted in the Vedic literatures and civilization as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. About five hundred years ago Krishna Himself appeared again in West Bengal in India in another form as Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu predicted—pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma: that in every town and village of every country in the world His name or Krishna’s name would be sung.

For several centuries, even devotees of Krishna and Chaitanya were perplexed how such a prediction could come to pass. And then His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada set sail on a steamship from India to America, and began to fulfill the prophecy of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. In ten years mainly, although altogether we could say twelve years Srila Prabhupada circled the globe fourteen times. And actually, spread the holy name of Krishna and the philosophy of Krishna consciousness throughout the world. And directly, and indirectly through his disciples and followers he has indeed fulfilled the prediction of Sri Krishna Chaitanya, that Krishna consciousness would spread to every town and village of the world.

After spreading Krishna consciousness in the western world on the order of his spiritual master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, Srila Prabhupada had the desire to return to India to spread Krishna consciousness there, or rather to revive Krishna consciousness there. Srila Prabhupada reasoned that the people of India were anxious to imitate the west. So, if the westerners took to Krishna consciousness then the people of India would want to imitate the westerners in Krishna consciousness as well. So, Srila Prabhupada returned to India in 1970 with a group of disciples from the United States and other parts of the world. And began to revive the Krishna consciousness of people in India itself.

Just stop for a minute. I just need to pause.

Interviewer: Sure. Want some water?

Giriraj Swami: No because then I might have to go to the bathroom. But Srila Prabhupada returned to India with some disciples from America. And he arrived in Calcutta. At the same time Srila Prabhupada arranged for other disciples from the United States and England to arrive in Bombay. And from Calcutta Srila Prabhupada joined the other group of disciples in Bombay. When Srila Prabhupada arrived in India, you can say he took India by storm. People were astonished that Americans and Europeans, and Orientals could totally accept Krishna consciousness, and Vedic culture as they did. Even to the Vaishnava dress.

So, in India there is a great tradition of spiritual discourses and spiritual gatherings. And one of the traditional ways of accommodating people for such discourses is the pandal. The pandal is actually a large tent you can say, but not in the western style of tent, but in the Indian style. Usually the cloth is very festive and decorative, and the structure that supports the cloth is made of bamboo poles.

So, between 1970 and 1971 Srila Prabhupada with his disciples traveled throughout India. And on many occasions, they were invited to pandal programs organized by other groups that featured other sadhus or holy teachers from different parts of India. And one such program was organized in Bombay by the Bharat Sadhu Samaj. And there Srila Prabhupada and his disciples stole the show. There were many long speeches with impersonal philosophical conclusions. And the audience was a little restless. And the organizers had kept Srila Prabhupada to speak at the end. Because Srila Prabhupada and his disciples were the main attraction wherever Srila Prabhupada and disciples were invited.

Interviewer: I am going to stop you for a second and just suggest that to make it more personal. . .Instead, I was there. I had arrived in such and such time, and I remember. . .

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Interviewer: So, make it much more associated.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, I will do that.

Interviewer: And if you want to we can go back a little bit, pick it up. . . You came directly to Bombay right?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Interviewer: Right. I was amongst those that were in Bombay. We could take them from there. Prabhupada came to Bombay, take it from,

Giriraj Swami: Yes. So, I can collect [Unintelligible] okay.

Interviewer: I think you will find it easier.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, you are right. I personally have the great privilege of being in the first group of devotees that came from the United States to Bombay to assist Srila Prabhupada in his mission in India. And I will never forget the program at Chowpatty beach that was organized by the Bharat Sadhu Samaj. There were thousands of people. I could never imagine that so many people could gather in one place to hear spiritual discourses. And we were also getting restless along with many others in the audience waiting for Srila Prabhupada’s time to come. And finally, after more than two hours the time came. And as usual Srila Prabhupada would begin the program with kirtan.

So, we were sitting on chairs with Srila Prabhupada on the stage and there were other sadhus or holy men on the stage also. And we started the kirtan sitting on chairs. But then one of the ladies, Malati dasi, got the inspiration that we should stand up and dance as we always do. And although some of the others among us were a little bit wary of what the reaction might be, somehow her mood prevailed and gradually all the devotees stood up on the stage and began to dance at the front of the stage. Then Matati dasi had further inspiration to jump down off of the stage and carry the kirtan into the audience.

So, pretty soon the whole group of us were chanting and dancing through the audience, thousands of people. And they were standing up, they were swaying on their feet. And they got completely captivated by the whole mood. And the whole atmosphere was completely transformed. I mean, I could say electrified. I mean there was like magic in the air. And the audience had never seen or heard, or experienced what they did on that occasion.

Eventually the kirtan ended and Srila Prabhupada’s turn to speak came. And he spoke very briefly. He was sensitive to the fact that the audience had been sitting for hours listening to different impersonal philosophies. And he basically made one very simple point. That every spiritual path in India aims towards sadachar, which means good behavior. And he pointed to us, his disciples, as examples of sadachar. That we followed four regulative principles that Srila Prabhupada said to the audience were very rare to find in India followed completely. And they were no eating meat, fish, or eggs; No gambling; No intoxication including even coffee, tea and cigarettes; and no illicit sex.

And then Srila Prabhupada raised the question, “How is it that these devotees from America and Europe, who were raised eating meat, and later taking intoxicants could give up all bad habits and become perfect examples of sadachar, or proper behavior?” And he said that, “It had come simply by the chanting of the holy names of Krishna. The chanting of the maha-mantra—Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama Rama Rama, Hare Hare.” as taught by Sri Krishna Chaitanya five hundred years ago, and as presented by Srila Prabhupada all over the world.

And in such a brief statement Srila Prabhupada conveyed such a powerful message, the whole audience was struck. Soon thereafter the program ended, Srila Prabhupada descended from the stage. And when he got to the, even before he got to the foot of the stairs the audience just rushed forward. Thousands of people got up from their chairs and rushed forward. And literally mobbed Srila Prabhupada. They were just so impressed by his achievement. I mean not just impressed but stunned.

So, they came forward. They tried to take the dust from his feet, and get his blessings. And that was the first major presentation of Krishna consciousness in Bombay through the pandal. Although the gathering at Chowpatty wasn’t a covered pandal as the programs we later held, but it was a pandal. It had a stage and an enclosure and chairs.

Stop for a minute.

Interviewer: Okay let us see the wild side of Giriraj Swami.

Giriraj Swami: Before the actual program at Chowpatty beach we were received at one hall where different sadhus had been assembled. And there were tables, long tables along the walls. And there were sadhus sitting at them cross-legged yogis, ritualists, and scholars with scriptures in front of them. And before we came to India we didn’t really know what to expect. I mean we all wanted to come to India. And somehow when Srila Prabhupada asked for the best person from each center that could be spared to go, I was selected from Boston. But practically all the other devotees wish they had been selected.

So, when we came to the hall and we saw all the sadhus I was thinking, Well maybe there are others like Srila Prabhupada. And I was looking. And comparing within my mind. And they were all so different from Srila Prabhupada. I mean they may have been very learned and saintly, and disciplined, and austere, but Srila Prabhupada was in a different category. He was just so effulgent, and so full of love and care, and compassion.

So, then when we had the program at Chowpatty beach. And Srila Prabhupada was recognized by the audience of thousands of respectable and aristocratic Indian ladies and gentlemen, and Indians of all types. I felt so gratified that they could actually recognize how great Srila Prabhupada was. And I felt proud to be associated with him, to be his servant. And Srila Prabhupada himself affectionately called us his dancing white elephants. Because he said, if an elephant dances it will create a sensation. But if a white elephant dances it will be even more of a sensation. So, Prabhupada used to call us his dancing white elephants. And people would literally come from hundreds of miles to see Prabhupada’s white elephants chant and dance in ecstasy, in kirtan or the congregational chanting of the holy names of God.

Stop for a minute.

So, after traveling throughout India with Srila Prabhupada for about eighteen months we came back to Bombay. And there one of our close friends and supporters Sadachi Vitlal suggested that we should put on our own pandal. I mean for us to put on our own pandal then seemed impossible. But Srila Prabhupada encouraged us. He said that, “If you are going to hunt, you should go for the rhinoceros. Because the rhinoceros is such a creature, everyone knows you can’t get a rhinoceros. So, if you fail, no one will blame you. Everyone will say well everyone knows you can’t get a rhinoceros. And if you succeed people will praise you—"Oh, how is it possible they got a rhinoceros?”

So, Srila Prabhupada encouraged us to aim for the rhinoceros. And just to attempt the impossible.And at the time Shyamasundara Prabhu was the temple president in Bombay and he was very dynamic. Very intelligent and very inspired by Srila Prabhupada as we all were. So, we held a meeting at the Sea Palace hotel which was a purely vegetarian hotel owned by another one of Srila Prabhupada’s early friends Ram Chandra Chhabria. And there Mr Chhabria and Sadachi were involved, and a few of our early friends gathered. And we discussed the plans for the first pandal. At the time Srila Prabhupada had gone ahead from Bombay to the Ardh Kumbh Mela in Allahabad, where hundreds of thousands of sadhus gather. And millions of ordinary people come to associate with the sadhus, and to take bath in the holy confluence of the Ganges, Yamuna, and Sarasvati rivers. So, Srila Prabhupada was very anxious to hear the news from Bombay when I arrived. And he encouraged us against all odds, he encouraged us. Some months later Srila Prabhupada sent me a telegram when I was traveling in another party, in northern India and said, “Planning Bombay pandal. Come immediately.” So, our whole party that was in Agra at the time booked our train reservations and came to Bombay. And there Shyamasundara Prabhu mainly encouraged all of us, and engaged all of us in different services for the pandal, the publicity for the pandal, and I believe Gurudas Prabhu was in charge of the publicity. The publicity was spectacular. First of all there were posters plastered on walls all over the city with a close-up picture of Srila Prabhupada’s face, and the caption, “World Preacher of Bhakti Cult” and then “Hare Krishna Festival Cross Maidan” and then the dates “March 1971”. And mentioning kirtan chanting and dancing pravachana spiritual discourses and distribution of Krishna prasāda or vegetarian food that has been offered with love and devotion to God, to Krishna, and taken as sanctified foodstuffs.

Then there were advertisements in the newspapers that ran similar to the poster. There were hand bills distributed by the thousands. The devotees would do hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana throughout the town, and then they would distribute the leaflets at the same time. There were billboards, and by the end of the publicity campaign everyone knew about the program. And Shyamasundara was such a genius. He got a billboard right at the Victoria terminus, which is the main train station in Bombay. It is like the main traffic intersection. And the billboard which was on top of a building just said “Hare Krishna.” You didn’t even have to say, “Cross Maidan,” March 20th to 31st. Everyone knew.And as the final climax to the publicity, he arranged a blimp that was fixed to the site Cross Maidan in downtown Bombay. And that hovered above the city. Hare Krishna Festival Cross Maidan.

And on the opening night thousands of people streamed into the pandal. And every night we had about twenty thousand people. And on the weekends maybe thirty thousand. And there was a section with chairs for special guests. And then there were carpets or dari on the floor for the rest of the people. And it was a tremendous success. Then one evening Srila Prabhupada had a ceremony on stage—a marriage between Vegavan who was from Australia and Padmavati who was from Sweden. Actually, we have to redo this because it is backwards.

Interviewer: Yes, I thought it was quite like this. Yes. Take it back.

Giriraj Swami: So, the marriage featured Vegavan from Sweden and Padmavati from Australia. And she was dressed in a traditional Indian sari with her hair parted and decorated with jewelry and the traditional Indian fashion. And Vegavan was properly dressed in this nice white dhoti and kurta. And they were married with a proper Vedic fire ceremony in front of twenty thousand people. At the same time Srila Prabhupada gave spiritual initiation or dīkṣā to several disciples from all over the world, who had come to be with Srila Prabhupada in Bombay. And during the ceremony after Srila Prabhupada introduced all the different devotees from different foreign lands and especially Vegavan and Padmavati, who are being united in holy matrimony, coming together from thousands of miles apart, continents apart, Srila Prabhupada declared, “This is the real United Nations.” And the whole audience began to cheer and clap—thousands of people. It was just wonderful.

Interviewer: You just move your. . .

Giriraj Swami: So, one of the issues with the pandal program was the funds. How are we going to raise all the money we needed to put on the program? And the program consisted not only of the publicity and the physical arrangements for the pandal but it included full meals served to thousands of people every night. We must have served much more than a hundred thousand meals in the course of the pandal program. So how to raise the funds?

So, Shyamasundara Prabhu engaged me in fundraising and others also. We had published a souvenir book with advertisements from different industrialists and businessmen along with articles and descriptions of the program. So, one of the people that the devotees had approached, as they were going to approach so many people was Mr. A.B Nair. Mr. A.B Nair was the editor of one of the three main daily newspapers published from Bombayand his was called the Free Press Journal. So, they met Mr. Nairand Mr. Nairtold them that he had a large property near Juhu beach, of about four acres of land. That he would like to offer for some noble cause such as Srila Prabhupada’s. So, later in the year Mr. Nairwrote a letter to Srila Prabhupada informing him of his land. Saying that he had met some of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples and that he would like to offer his land for some noble cause.

So, eventually Srila Prabhupada returned to Bombay and met Mr. Nair. And he entered into a purchase agreement with Mr. Nair. But as time passed Srila Prabhupada realized that Mr. Nair was, in blunt terms, trying to cheat him. Mr. Nair had taken two hundred thousand rupees in earnest money—one hundred, fifty thousand as a deposit, another fifty thousand on the execution of the sales agreement, and then according to the sales agreement upon payment of another one hundred thousand the land would be transferred into the name of ISKCON.

So, in the meantime Srila Prabhupada left Bombay. He put me in charge of the project there at Juhu. And I was totally bewildered. I mean, I loved India. When I arrived in India after the shock of maybe the first day or two of cultural differences I felt so at home there. I really felt I could spend my whole life here, and I practically did. But Mr. Nair was very tricky. He had played tricks with other people that he had offered to sell the land to before Srila Prabhupada. And they were also very shrewd businessmen. But even they were duped by Nair and more or less he took the same approach. He would take their money and put a condition in the agreement. In the case of the first party the condition was that they had to get the land subdivided through the Municipal corporation. And then he arranged through his influence and money to make sure that the man never got the permission to subdivide the property. And then he said, “Well okay I am going to keep your money now because you couldn’t fulfill the permission.”

So, in his agreement with Srila Prabhupada he put the condition that we had to take permission from the charity commissioner before we could buy the land. And again, through his influence and money he made sure that we never got the permission, and then he canceled the agreement. He said that too much time had passed past the deadline, and so, he canceled the agreement. And he said he was going to keep the money.

But anyway, things looked very good initially after Prabhupada entered the agreement to buy the land from Mr. Nair, and so Srila Prabhupada held a cornerstone-laying ceremony at Juhu beach. And at the time Juhu was just a simple fishing village. There was one hotel there because of the beautiful beach, and there were two more under construction. But otherwise Juhu was basically a fishing village. And it was considered very remote. People hardly ever went there from Bombay except a few rich people would go once in a while to visit the beach there. And they had their own holiday homes there, or guest houses there by Juhu beach, but otherwise it was remote.

And in the meantime, the devotees had gotten a nice apartment building in Central Bombay. The Akashganga building just overlooking the Arabian sea on Warden Road. And they were very conveniently located near the most important people of the city, whom they could approach to become life members of the society. And it was also very easy for the people they met to come to the temple and see the Deities there. So, when Srila Prabhupada first proposed that we take the land of Juhu and move the devotees and Deities onto the property, many of the devotees resisted. Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “Srila Prabhupada, we can’t just move onto the land.” And the land actually was just brush. I mean there were some tenement buildings on the back of the property but the vacant portion at the front was just brush. And local people actually used to distill illicit liquor in the bushes.

So, Srila Prabhupada said that we should take the land and immediately move on to the land and we could live in tents. And Tamal Krishna Goswami goes on and said, “But Srila Prabhupada, we are Americans. We are used to having doors and doorknobs, and refrigerators, and light bulbs. I mean we can’t live in tents.” But Srila Prabhupada was determined and he said, “What is the matter? Don’t you want to become purified?” So eventually the devotees had to agree.

So, the arrangement with Mr. Nair was that Srila Prabhupada paid fifty thousand rupees earnest money as a deposit. Then upon payment of a further fifty thousand rupees Srila Prabhupada would be given possession of the land. And somehow Srila Prabhupada expected that there might be trouble in the future. So, he specifically included the clause that we would get possession of the land upon payment of the second fifty thousand rupees. And then Srila Prabhupada brought the devotees to the land. Put up a pandal. Had a big preaching program there for ten days. And brought the Deities of Radha and Krishna that had been in the apartment in central Bombay.

So, then after the pandal program Srila Prabhupada left. We had arranged the VIP room at the Santa Cruz airport for Srila Prabhupada. So, in the room there was an ecstatic kirtan before Srila Prabhupada boarded the aircraft, all the devotees were just singing and dancing in ecstasy. And even Mrs. Nair was there. She was coming to all the programs. And even she was there. And at the end of the kirtan, Srila Prabhupada said to the devotees that “If you go on having kirtan like this our project will be a success.” And that was a great encouragement to us, because we didn’t know how we were going to execute Srila Prabhupada’s will there. So, initially the devotees were living on the tops of the roofs of the tenement buildings at the back of the property. And there were a few water taps there. And so, we had constructed some enclosures of chattai which is like straw, but it is actually made of the dried leaves of palm trees. And so we would go to the tap, fill up our buckets, take our bucket into the chattai enclosure, and take our showers. And then there were also some in chattai enclosures where the devotees would evacuate. And there was a hole where it would go, and it was very basic.

So again, according to the agreement upon a further payment of a hundred thousand rupees the property would be conveyed into the name of ISKCON, into the name of Srila Prabhupada’s society. And we paid the second hundred thousand rupees, but Nair refused to transfer the land. And he stuck to the point that we needed the permission from the charity commissioner and we didn’t get it. Anyway, there were many legal complications. Now I am going to go back because again we are getting a little out of sequence. Because we have to include the cornerstones.

So, after signing the sales agreement and getting possession of the land, Srila Prabhupada organized a huge pandal right on the Juhu land. And even though it is far from the city and not so many of our friends from the city came, but many of the local people came. And Srila Prabhupada said that the Juhu area was such that we could get thousands of people just from the suburbs there. And as part of the proceedings Srila Prabhupada had the cornerstone laying ceremony—according to the Vaishnava tradition. And according to the tradition a hole was dug and various sacred articles were put in the hole. And the main one was a small Deity of Anantashesha, was also an expansion of viṣṇu-tattva—who supports the structure and other auspicious and sacred articles. It is done. Now, I. . .

Interviewer: And try to include a little more of your own feelings as you go through. What you are thinking. Just, spice it up with it. . .

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Interviewer: For example, I have never seen a corner. . .

Giriraj Swami: Pandal Program. Srila Prabhupada called for a meeting of the leading disciples in the tenants apartment where he was temporarily staying. And he raised the issue of who would take charge of the project. Earlier Srila Prabhupada had gone to West Africa and asked Brahmananda to come to Juhu to take charge of the project. But in the meeting Srila Prabhupada said that he had received word from Kenya that the life members and devotees were missing Brahmananda there. And so Srila Prabhupada said he wanted Brahmananda to go back. He raised the issue of who would take charge of the Juhu project.

So, after he raised the question he more or less ended the discussion and devotees went out. And different big devotees were discussing who should take charge. No one mentioned my name. And my name never even entered my own mind. But then later Srila Prabhupada had called us into his room again and raise this, the same question. “Now who will take charge?” And everyone was silent. And then Srila Prabhupada looked at me, and he said, “So Giriraj you will take charge?” And I mean, I had come to Bombay to preach. I never really considered myself to be a manager. And I didn’t particularly want to manage. And I certainly had no qualification to manage a huge project as Srila Prabhupada envisioned for Juhu. So, he looked at me and he said, “So Giriraj, you will take charge?” And I was stunned. I must have looked very disappointed, but I knew that the secret of success in spiritual life was to follow the instructions of the Spiritual master, and to please the Spiritual master. And I knew that however difficult the instruction might seem that I had to follow it.

So, probably with a great deal of reluctance, and maybe even some consternation on my face I said, “Yes Srila Prabhupada.” And then Srila Prabhupada smiled, and he began to chuckle. And he looked at me and he said, “So now the whole responsibility is on you.” And I must have grimaced. I mean within my mind I was thinking, “How could you say that? Doesn’t he know how I am feeling.” Although with my intelligence I knew that whatever he said and did was perfect. It was the best for all people on all levels—on the absolute platform. But my mind just reacted that, “How could he be laughing? Doesn’t he know how I feel?” And that was it. Within days the pandal program ended. Srila Prabhupada left and the whole responsibility was on us. And we really didn’t have a clue. Srila Prabhupada would give us instructions, and we wouldn’t know how to follow them.

But anyway, Srila Prabhupada had one friend from Central Bombay Dr. Shringi. So, he said we should consult her, she will help us. And he said that we should build a chattai hut on the property because the rains were coming and we couldn’t keep living on the roofs. Even then living on the roofs was very austere. It was hot then, April and May were very hot and we were just living on the roofs, lying down on our mats, and some of the devotees had mosquito nets to protect them from the mosquitoes. But the mosquitoes were abundant and devotees were getting jaundice. They were getting malaria. They were really struggling and the ones that didn’t have jaundice and malaria at least had dysentery. So, it was very difficult physically, but we did whatever Srila Prabhupada wanted because we knew that he was our Guru Maharaja and that he was going to take us back to Godhead. And that if people followed him he could save the whole world. So we did whatever he wanted, at least to our capacity.

So Srila Prabhupada left, and we were really quite bewildered. We didn’t know what to do. And the businessmen were trying to cheat us. And we didn’t know how much things were supposed to cost. And then again, the people were so diplomatic. Everyone seemed like a devotee to us. Everyone seemed like the greatest supporters of the mission there. But actually, they thought these people are foreigners. They have lots of money. They don’t know anything.  Let us take them for whatever we can. Anyway, Srila Prabhupada had his world mission. And he had to travel. But within his mind he was always thinking of Juhu. Srila Prabhupada’s secretaries who accompanied him in his travels would tell me that he was always thinking of Juhu. And just waiting for a letter to come from Giriraj or one of the others in Bombay.

Interviewer: Okay try not to swivel now. I move that a little bit away from that microphone, that cloth. Now the other side is next to the microphone. Okay, that is good.

Giriraj Swami: The reason I am swiveling is, I am too hot.

Interviewer: Oh!

Giriraj Swami: But that you can, the temperature can. . .yes, I don’t have my feet firmly on the ground. A little bit.

Interviewer: Okay we are rolling.

Giriraj Swami: So, the challenges of going to the city every day meeting people, trying to enroll life members and getting support for the project and distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books, there was the whole issue of the legal acquisition of the land. So, after Srila Prabhupada left we paid the second hundred thousand rupees. And we were supposed to get the land conveyed in the name of Srila Prabhupada society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. But Mr. Nair never transferred the land. And I remember one day we went to see our lawyers. And our lawyer was one of the most reputable lawyers in Bombay. And not only reputable as a lawyer but renowned for his piety and Hindu sentiments. So, Mr. Nair came and picked me up in his car and took me to the city to meet the lawyer. And our lawyer was speaking in a very friendly way with Mr. Nair. And I thought to myself that he is supposed to be our lawyer, but he is so friendly with Mr. Nair. He seems to have more relations with Mr. Nair than with us.

So, our lawyer advised me that we should continue to pay the installments. Although we paid the second hundred thousand rupees which was enough to get the conveyance of the land well it wasn’t enough to pay for the total amount. But we were supposed to get the conveyance and then continue then the land would be mortgaged to Mr. Nair himself. And then, as we paid the rest of the installments, the mortgage would be paid off. So, we were just struggling to survive there and to get some extra money to pay Mr. Nair was very difficult but we did. Somehow, we got seven thousand and fifty hundred rupees and we paid that to Mr. Nair also. But when Srila Prabhupada got news in Los Angeles he was very concerned. He wanted to know where is the conveyance? We paid two hundred thousand rupees. Where is the conveyance and why are you paying more money without the conveyance?

So, from Los Angeles and then later from New Vrindavan where Srila Prabhupada went on his travels, he would receive the letters from Bombay; receive the telegrams, and give advice. Anyway, I was really struggling because I didn’t know how to deal with Mr. Nair. I didn’t know how to deal with many of the devotees. Some of the devotees were very strong characters. One in particular was named Gargamuni. And Gargamuni he was a very strong person. And he was probably a better manager than I was. And he would really ridicule me for the way I was managing or mismanaging. And I was really struggling on so many different levels. But anyway, Srila Prabhupada helped. He sent Gargamuni to Gujarat with a traveling party to distribute books. So, that was a bit of a relief but we were struggling.

And then there was devotees. They couldn’t take the heat. They couldn’t take the disease. They couldn’t take the mosquitoes. They couldn’t take the accommodations. They couldn’t take the austerity. And when the rains came the hut leaked. We would have to put buckets to collect the water that was dripping through the tarpon on top of the chattai hut. And then there were rats. And the Bombay rats are not like the common rats you get in America and other places. They were like this big but when they bit you, you couldn’t feel it. So, we would be lying on the floor of the chattai hut on our straw mats and it didn’t happen to me personally, but devotees would wake up and they would see blood. And it was their own blood because these huge Bombay rats had bitten them in the night and they couldn’t even feel it. So, many devotees left and many of the ones that stayed wanted to leave.

So, I was struggling to just get them to stay. Struggling to raise money. We had so little money that we could hardly afford food. Because Srila Prabhupada ordered that all the life membership money 50 percent should go in the book fund and 50 percent should go in the building fund and none of it should be used for the devotees’ maintenance. So, whatever we got from selling books, whatever little profit we made, and whatever donations we got outside of life membership was all we had to spend. So, basically all we had to eat was just plain boiled rice and boiled dough. And if we were lucky we would have some boiled vegetables with it.

I remember Jagat Purush Prabhu was the head cook. And it was very austere. But then one day a very aristocratic gentleman from Bombay came to Hare Krishna land with this old, I don’t know looked like it was from the 1940s or something, but a black aristocratic limousine with a chauffeur. And he brought a huge basket of fruit. I guess he was inspired by the devotees, and at the same time he took compassion on them. So, every Sunday he would send a huge basket of fruit. And that was the only fruit we would get. So we were struggling. And devotees were criticizing. And Mr. Nair had taken our money wasn’t giving us the conveyance. Everything seemed to be going wrong.

So, I somehow got the idea that probably the best thing I could do for the project would be to resign as the temple president. So, I sent Srila Prabhupada telegram suggesting that I resign. Srila Prabhupada sent back another telegram. My resignation was not accepted. And then I sort of thought Prabhupada already has enough problems with the project and now I want to resign. I thought it was part of the solution, but maybe it was just another problem for Srila Prabhupada. So, I carried on, and eventually it was Srila Prabhupada himself who saved the land, who got the land out of all the legal implications and complications and somehow the land was transferred into ISKCON’s name. But then there was another problem. We had to get the permission to build the temple. And many of the same people that had been involved with Mr. Nair and who sort of formed a clique in Prabhupada’s own words they formed a clique against us. They were still angry because they wanted the land. It was choice land at Juhu beach and Mrs. Nair herself could have gotten much more money if she sold it to some other parties who wanted to develop a hotel there. And so, the Mr. Nair cohorts, they gathered together and they were determined that we should never get the permission to build. And they probably thought if we never got the permission to build we might just give up the land. So that was another struggle.

So, almost every day I would go to the city and meet people and try to get them to help us get the permission. And we actually needed two—the basic permission was from the municipal corporation. But one of the conditions to get the permission from the municipal corporations, was, we needed permission from the police commissioner and we could never get it. So, practically every day I would go to the city in the heat. Squeezed into the local trains that went from Vile Parle and parliament Santa Cruz to Church gate, and meet people, carrying my briefcase with pictures of our activities and copies of Srila Prabhupada’s books, and climbing the stairs, and meeting the people, and telling them about our difficulties, and asking for their help.

So, one day we had a very important meeting. And sometimes Bhagavan Prabhu who was acting as the GBC then, just temporarily, he would come with me. So, one evening we came back and Srila Prabhupada was so concerned to know what happened with the permit. Sometimes during the kirtan, he would call me forward to his vyāsāsana, to his seat and ask me what happened. And pretty much we never had any good news. So, one day in particular when we came back we were very dejected and Prabhupada saw it in us. And from the vyāsāsana, he announced that “You must dance in the kirtan.” He said everyone must dance in the kirtan. You must dance in the kirtan even if you don’t get the permission. And so, we danced. Prabhupada ultimately wanted us to be happy in Krishna consciousness. He wanted us to do our best to serve Krishna in the practical field. But, at the same time he wanted us to chant and dance and be happy and Krishna consciousness.

Interviewer: Okay. 

Giriraj Swami: After sometime Bhagavan Prabhu had to return to his responsibilities in France. And Srila Prabhupada brought another disciple who was a born Indian. But who had studied at the Sorbonne in France, and then later gotten a job in Canada. And he was Gopal Krishna dasa. And when Gopal Krishna Prabhu came to Bombay we made a team, and we would go out to meet people, to try to get the permission. And we met all the top politicians. And we couldn’t get any help from anyone. And then we started to think that maybe the opposition is coming from a very high place. And maybe we have to solve it by going to a very high place. Anyway, somehow, we got the idea that we should visit the Chief Minister of Maharashtra which is the state in which Bombay is located. And the Chief Minister is what the Prime Minister is for the country, the Chief minister is for the state. He is the highest authority and very difficult to meet. So, we went to the State government building Sachivalaya and we met the Chief Minister’s PA and PS. PA means Personal Assistant and PS means Private Secretary, Personal Secretary. And I don’t know if we actually ever got an appointment. But we were waiting and Gopal Krishna Maharaja got the idea let us just go into the office. And usually the doors to the office are guarded by chowkidar and there are all sorts of staff that make sure that no visitors enter without permission. But somehow, we were sort of in the outer room, the waiting room and there was no one guarding the door. And Gopal Krishna Prabhu then said, “Let us just go in.”

So, we all opened the door and walked in. And what usually happens when we walk into a gentleman’s chamber without permission he immediately presses the button on his desk. His secretary comes rushing in. And he says to us, “I am very busy now. I am sorry. I can’t meet you.” And he has a secretary escort us out.” Sometimes if he is in a nastier mood, he will look up and scowl and say, “Get out.” And the Chief Minister of the state of Maharashtra we didn’t know. Because when people are powerful they can be very temperamental. We walked in, and the Chief Minister S.B. Chavan stood up, and received us as holy men. He offered us seats with the utmost grace and respect and he asked us how he could serve us. So, we explained the predicament and he said, “I will help you. I will solve the problem. Do not worry.”

So, according to the hierarchy in the government, there is one tier which is the ministers who are elected officials, or politicians. And then there is another tier which are the secretaries, they are permanent positions. So, the most powerful positions are the Chief Minister, and then under him the Chief Secretary, and the Home Secretary. And it turns out that one of Mr. Nair’s accomplices, who was the local Municipal Corporator named Pushpak Mhatre, and who had given us so much trouble all along, from the side of the Municipal Corporation, he had been regularly meeting the Chief Secretary, or the Home Secretary and telling him about us That we are CIA. That we are drug addicts. That we are smugglers. And and the Police Commissioner comes under the Home Secretary. So, it was actually because of directions from the Home Secretary that the Police Commissioner refused us the ‘No Objection certificate’ to build the temple. And without the No Objection certificate from the Police Commissioner we couldn’t get the permit to build from the Municipal Corporation. 

So, as we heard later, S.B. Chavan called in the Home Secretary and asked him what is the problem with the permission for the Hare Krishna temple in Juhu. And then the Home Secretary started to say so many bad things about us as we heard later. And the Chief Minister said to him, “Are they the guilty ones, or are you the guilty one?” And he ordered the Home Secretary to give us the permission. He didn’t consider any of the false charges against us that the Home Secretary presented under the influence of Pushpakant Mhatre. So, immediately the word spread all over Bombay, that the Chief Minister is supporting ISKCON.

We went back to all the offices that we had been going to for the last months. Where we had been met with either polite indifference or outright hostility. And immediately we were received as saints, as ‘honored guests.’ And we could see how the politics of the city worked. Once people knew that the Chief Minister was behind us they also were behind us, and we got the permission.

So, some time passed and in 1977 we organized the last public preaching program for Srila Prabhupada. The last pandal program in Bombay. At the time Srila Prabhupada was already ill, he was in Mayapur, but we really wanted to have the program for him. We thought it would be the proper next step for the development of the project. And we actually thought that Prabhupada would feel enlivened if he came back to Bombay. So, meanwhile the devotees in Mayapur, they really wanted to keep Srila Prabhupada there. I am sure they were concerned about his health. And every devotee wanted Srila Prabhupada to be where they were anyway. But somehow, I felt Prabhupada must come.

So, I wrote him a letter and I quoted one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to the effect that, “Without the dust of the lotus feet of the pure devotee of the Lord, human society cannot take to Krishna consciousness.” So, I quoted the verse, Sanskrit, and the English. And I told Srila Prabhupada that you are the only hope and you should come. And he reciprocated. So, against the advice of the leaders in Mayapur, he decided to come. And even Sohrab who was in charge of the construction of Juhu really didn’t want Prabhupada to come. Because he wasn’t ready. The building wasn’t ready, and Prabhupada wanted it ready.

So, Srila Prabhupada came. The car drove him to the door of the apartment that we built for him, on top of one of the old tenement buildings. And we opened the door, and Prabhupada said, “Why have you brought me here?” We were like, “Well Srila Prabhupada your quarters are here.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “No. I am not getting out here. I want to stand.” And he was adamant. So, we drove Prabhupada to the twin towers of the ISKCON guest house. And the lift was not working. The quarters were not ready by any means but Prabhupada insisted. So, we carried himup in the palanquin. And, I mean he loved the quarters. They were beautiful—Marble floors, carved wood furniture, chandeliers. He loved the quarters and he said “Only Sohrab could have done such a magnificent job.” But the rooms were filthy. They were still under construction.

So, Prabhupada went into one quarter of one room. And meanwhile we just threw buckets of water all over the floors. And tried to make the apartment somewhat habitable. But fortunately, the pandal program was about to begin at Cross Maidan and Srila Prabhupada had one good friend in Central Bombay named Kartikeya Mahadevia. And before Srila Prabhupada had his own place at Juhu he sometimes used to stay at Mr. Mahadevia’s apartment. So, we thought that Srila Prabhupada’s not well. He won’t be able to drive all the way from Juhu to Bombay and back every day. So, let him stay at Mr. Mahadevia’s place. And in the meantime, we will get a week or ten days to finish Prabhupada’s rooms properly. So, Prabhupada agreed and so he stayed at Mr. Mahadavia’s flat for most of the duration of the pandal program. And in the meantime, we got his rooms at Juhu ready.

Just stop for a minute.