Srila Prabhupada in Bombay—Interview for ITV—Part 02

Giriraj Swami: So, when Gurudas Prabhu first put on the first Delhi pandal, he invited important persons from different fields to attend as chief guests every night to speak. So, we followed the same pattern now for what turned out to be Srila Prabhupada’s last public pandal program. So, of course, one of the chief guests was the Chief Minister of Maharashtra, Shankarrao Chavan, and he was certainly an important guest. But there were many others from different fields, and one was Dr. KK Dutta, who was one of the most prominent medical doctors in the city of Bombay at the time. He was from Bombay hospital, and he was a cardiac surgeon. So, he spoke. And therefore, he is pictured here.

But one of the presentations that Srila Prabhupada was most interested in was the scientific presentation of Srila Prabhupada’s disciple, Dr. Svarupa Damodara, who had gotten a PhD in chemistry from the University of California at Irvine. And Srila Prabhupada entrusted him with one of his most important missions, which was to establish the scientific basis of Krishna consciousness.

So, one evening, Srila Prabhupada had Svarupa Damodara dasa, at that time, give a presentation to the audience with slides and different scientific arguments in favor of the existence of the soul as a separate non-physical and non-chemical entity, and for the existence of the Supreme Soul, which is the origin of all other souls, or Krishna, or God. And Srila Prabhupada was so pleased with the presentation. He was just so pleased with the presentation. And we thought, Well, some of the audience, if not most of the audience, really won’t understand everything that Svarupa Damodara Prabhu is saying. But Srila Prabhupada didn’t mind.

He said, “They don’t understand what the scientists are saying anyway, but because the scientists use some graphs and diagrams and statistics and big words, people are impressed and think that what they are saying is scientific and true. So, in the same way, we will also have our diagrams and our graphs and our figures and our big words, and instead of coming to the conclusion that there is no God and everything is matter, we will come to the conclusion that there is God. He is the Supreme Spirit, and from Him come both spirit and matter, but that matter is animated by spirit. Without spirit, matter is dead.” So, Srila Prabhupada was so pleased with Bhakti Svarupa Damodara Maharaja’s presentation.

We had arranged the last Bombay pandal for about one week, but we have taken so much effort to take up the pandal, organize the program, and arrange the food for distribution, we thought, Well, why not continue? And Srila Prabhupada agreed, “Yes, our program has created a stir in Bombay.” So, we did continue, but because of Prabhupada’s ill health, his disciples often gave the main talks in the evening. And Srila Prabhupada returned to Juhu. And he was very pleased with his quarters there. I know I was personally cultivating many important people in Bombay. I was just dreaming of the day when Srila Prabhupada would stay in his new quarters and we would bring the elite of the city, and Srila Prabhupada could speak to them about Krishna consciousness. And he did, and in his last weeks there, he did.

At the time, the Janata Party had just defeated Indira Gandhi in the General Elections, and Murarji Desai had become the new Prime Minister, and many friends from what were the Congress and Janata Party had come into power. So, two of the important members of parliament from Bombay came to meet Srila Prabhupada. One was Ratan Singh Rajda, who was a good friend of Murarji Desai, and the other was Ram Jethmanali, who was from the Janata Dal party, which became the Bharatiya Janata Party eventually. And they came and met Srila Prabhupada in his quarters, and I was in heaven. This was my dream to bring leaders of India to Srila Prabhupada and have Srila Prabhupada speak to them about Krishna consciousness.

Then, some industrialists came too, and one of them was Sri Ramkrishna Bajaj, who was the Chairman of the Bajaj Group of Industries, including Bajaj Electricals and Bajaj Fans, and so on. And he had the idea, because it was already becoming very hot in Juhu, and at the same time, the construction was still going on. There was always the tapping of the hammers and chisels on the marble as the workers were completing the last carved marble to put on the temple.

Of course, we were concerned that the noise would disturb Srila Prabhupada, but Srila Prabhupada was very gracious and he wanted to encourage the work. He said to me that the tapping of the hammers and the chisels is like music, like kirtan. But it was getting warm, not just warm but hot, and there was the sound of the construction and the presence of the workers on the site. So, Mr. Bajaj suggested, “Why don’t you go to Rishikesh? We can arrange a nice place for you in Rishikesh. It will be cool there. You can have the water from the sacred Ganges River and you can recover your health.” And Srila Prabhupada immediately became very enthusiastic, “Yes, I will go there.” And he quoted one Sanskrit verse about taking the water of the Ganges.

So, Srila Prabhupada left Bombay, and the initial reports from Rishikesh were very encouraging. Prabhupada was very enlightened with the cool weather, the Ganges water, spiritual atmosphere. But one night, practically in the middle of the night, he woke and felt that the time was coming that he would have to leave his body and his manifest pastimes on Earth, and he said he wanted to spend his last days in Vrindavan. So, his disciples quickly arranged for his journey to Vrindavan, and he stayed there for several months.

But then, around September, perhaps to some extent because of Tamal Krishna Goswami’s appeal to him or suggestion to him, Srila Prabhupada agreed to go to the West, and he went first to England. But in England itself, he actually confided in Svarupa Damodara Prabhu, “I want to return to India now. I want to return to Bombay.” So, Srila Prabhupada returned to Bombay and spent about two weeks there, but most of the time, he was just lying on his bed because he was so weak.

But in Bombay, he mentioned that when he was in Vrindavan, Sri K.J. Somaiya had visited him there, and when he saw Srila Prabhupada’s condition, he had cried. K.J. Somaiya was an important industrialist in Bombay and a philanthropist, and he established a huge campus called Somaiya College. And Prabhupada mentioned the kirtans, that the kirtans were wonderful. I mean, I accompanied him from the airport, he was so emaciated, I felt so bad. But then, when we came to his quarters and when he went to his bed and laid down, all the other devotees left, and he asked me to stay and speak to him. I felt so honored and special, not that I was more special than anyone else. Prabhupada made each one of us feel special.

But then, after two weeks, although we wanted Prabhupada to stay for the grand opening of the Juhu temple, he again raised the issue of whether he should stay or go to Vrindavan. And Tamal Krishna Goswami and others were in the room when Srila Prabhupada discussed the question. He went one by one and asked different devotees in the room for their advice. [Unintelligible 00:11:53] from New Vrindavan was there, Brahmananda Prabhu was there.

And Tamal Krishna Goswami felt that Srila Prabhupada should be present for the opening of the temple, but not in the condition he is in now, that he should go to Vrindavan and recover his strength, and then come for the opening. And I felt that ultimately, Krishna would decide, and I thought the best place for Srila Prabhupada to be while Krishna made His decision was Vrindavan. So, in the end, we concluded that Srila Prabhupada should go to Vrindavan. And actually, he wanted to go to Vrindavan.

So, that was a very poignant moment when Srila Prabhupada left Juhu for the last time. And within our hearts, we all felt that he would not return.

So, we had arranged a nice car to drive Srila Prabhupada to the train station, but I also had another friend, Dr. N.D Desai, who was an industrialist. He was a doctor because he had a PhD and was very intelligent. And he had an old Plymouth from the 1950s. But he had really become very attached to Srila Prabhupada. Somehow, I thought maybe he should be the one to drive Srila Prabhupada to the train station to Bombay Central. So, I invited him to come. And he cleaned his car, decorated it with some flowers, and then he arrived. And given the choice between the new Mercedes-Benz and the old Plymouth, which was a big car but it was old, Prabhupada chose the Plymouth because the driver was a devotee, more of a devotee.

And so, we spread sheets in the backseats. Prabhupada laid in the back seats with Upendra Prabhu, who is Srila Prabhupada’s servant. And perhaps, Brahmananda Prabhu was sort of crouching between the seat, the back seat and the front seat, and Tamal Krishna Goswami and I were in the front with Dr. Desai.

But as we got into the car and as the car was getting ready to leave Hare Krishna Land, it was almost like when Akrura came to take Krishna from Vrindavan. It just seemed the devotees were coming from all directions. They heard that Prabhupada was leaving and they knew that he may never return and they were crying. All of them, almost all of them were crying. And then, the car pulled out the driveway and left Hare Krishna Land.

So, Srila Prabhupada was lying in the backseat, and we left very early. At the rate we were going, we would have been at the train station probably two and a half hours before the train was supposed to depart. And Dr. Desai, who was now initiated as Shreenathji dasa, had a nice apartment quite close to the train station, but also on Warden Road, overlooking the sea. And we thought, Maybe we should just take Prabhupada there. So, we were talking quietly in the front seat, and Prabhupada in the back seat said, “Hmm? What is that?” We told Prabhupada what we were thinking. Prabhupada said, “No, I want to go straight to the station.”

So, we got to the station. We thought we were more than two hours early to catch the train, where you really only need to be there fifteen minutes or twenty minutes before. And when we got there, we realized, not realized, we were told, we saw on the schedule of departures that the schedule had just changed that day, and the train was leaving two hours earlier than on the old schedule. So, we got a wheelchair. We helped Srila Prabhupada into the wheelchair, and Brahmananda Prabhu was running and pushing Srila Prabhupada down the platform because there were just minutes before the train was scheduled to leave, and the rest of us were madly grabbing our bags, of course, Prabhupada’s bags, and running down the platform.

And by the time we got there, Srila Prabhupada was already in his first class compartment. And Sreenathji was there, and he was sweating. He was so thirsty and he went up to the stall on the platform and asked for a Limca.

And in the meantime, Srila Prabhupada, lying down in his compartment in the train, called for Sreenathji dasa. So, Dr. Desai, at the time, he just paused, set down the Limca, and went into the train compartment, and there he kept his head at Srila Prabhupada’s feet, and Srila Prabhupada patted him on the back and thanked him. And then, I jumped on the train. We were off to Vrindavan, to Mathura. But it was a very sad occasion for the devotees who remained behind in Juhu to see Srila Prabhupada leave for the last time.

But then, on January 14th, 1978, the temple opened. Many important ministers and government officers attended. And there was a full-page article with colored photos in News Week magazine. And at the time, The News Week magazine was just introducing colored photos. There were only a few colored pages at the time and all the rest was black and white, but there was a full-page coverage of the opening of the Juhu temple. There was a picture of the diorama in the new temple of Srila Prabhupada standing under the tree at Tompkin Square Park in New York City where he had first begun the movement in 1965, and there was another picture of Srila Prabhupada’s framed painting on the new marble vyāsāsana in the new temple. And the caption read, From Rags to Riches.

One of the themes of the article was how Prabhupada had basically come to America in rags and began preaching under a tree in Tompkin Square Park, and how in the end, he had built a beautiful temple and a cultural complex for Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari in Juhu. And as part of the celebrations, the devotees had taken a picture, the same painting done by Pushkar Prabhu, the same painting of Srila Prabhupada on Juhu Beach with a massive hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. So, the picture of Srila Prabhupada’s painting surrounded by devotees also appeared in color in News Week magazine, and I was also in the picture. I feel glad I was also included.

And we were thinking, How is that Prabhupada left before the temple opened? It’s almost as if his life’s ambition had been to see that the temple opened. Then, somehow, we came to the conclusion that Prabhupada wanted us to feel his presence even in his apparent separation, and we all felt that Srila Prabhupada was present. And we think now, and we thought then, of Srila Prabhupada’s own words of dedication to his spiritual master, that he lives forever by his divine instructions and the follower lives with him.

Hare Krishna.

Now, coming back to the vision. When Srila Prabhupada first conceived the Juhu project, he had such a radical plan and such an ambitious plan that practically none of us could conceive of it. He said, “There will be a big marble temple, and there will be a hotel.” He said, “There will be a skyscraper. There would be a hotel. There would be a restaurant. There will be an auditorium where there could be cultural programs. There will be exhibits.” It was just inconceivable to us. The vision was difficult for us to comprehend, and how we could do it was even more inconceivable. But Srila Prabhupada had the vision. He was determined, and by the grace of Krishna, Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari, he was successful. When he first brought them to the Juhu land, he said to Krishna, “My dear sir, please come and sit down here, and I will build a beautiful marble temple for You.” And he did it.

Later, after all the difficulties we had with the land, with the landlord, Mr. Nair, the municipal corporation, Mr. Mhatre, with the lawyer, with the conspiracy between the lawyers, at the end, Srila Prabhupada remarked, “Actually, I was not interested in this land, but because I brought Radha-Rasabihari here, I couldn’t bear the thought that They would be driven off the land. It would have been a great insult. Otherwise, I was not interested in this land.” So, in one sense, the story of the Hare Krishna Land is the story of Srila Prabhupada’s service to Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari and Their reciprocation with him.

Devotee: And how did Srila Prabhupada obtain these Deities in Bombay?

Giriraj Swami: Let me just say one more thing. Later, Tamal Krishna Goswami commented that we often hear devotees performing austerities for the sake of the Deities, but in Hare Krishna Land, the Deities, Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari, performed austerities for the devotees. Especially, Their dear most devotee, Srila Prabhupada.

When we first came to Bombay, we met various important persons, and one of the persons that Shyamsundara Prabhu had met was Mr. Dhruba. He was the personal secretary of Sri R.D Birla, who was the head of the Birla family in Bombay. And Shyamsundara Prabhu told Mr. Dhruba about our activities, and Mr. Dhruva was impressed. He informed Mr. Birla, and Mr. Birla was also impressed. So, as an initial token of appreciation and support for Srila Prabhupada’s mission, Mr. Birla donated six pairs of Radha-Krishna marble Deities from Jaipur. And one of the six pairs was Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari, who were installed in Bombay.

After the first Bombay pandal, there was a procession from Cross Maidan to the Chowpatty Beach. And at the Chowpatty Beach, there was another program, and there, Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari were revealed to the public for the first time, and They looked beautiful. Jamuna did a wonderful job of getting the Deity paraphernalia donated and making the outfits for Them. But at the second Bombay pandal, another pair of Deities, Sri Sri Kishore-Kishori, that were later sent to Chicago and installed there, were the Deities at the pandal program.

And on the last day of the pandal, during the last kirtan, Srila Prabhupada stood up and began to dance. And of course, the devotees were always dancing whenever there was kirtan, and in Srila Prabhupada’s presence especially. But when He stood up and danced, the devotees went wild. And then, Prabhupada began to dance in a circle around the Deities, Sri Sri Kishore-Kishori, and the devotees were also dancing in a circle, following Srila Prabhupada.

There was a drama, but I feel maybe out of place because I don’t recall Prajapati. That Rāmāyaṇa with Prajapati was, I believe, that was at the last pandal, the seventy-seventh one. But in the film. . .

Devotee: Oh, I see.

Srila Prabhupada had such a dynamic vision for spreading Krishna consciousness. He wanted to use every means possible and every medium. And he also wanted to use the medium of drama, and therefore, he formed a dramatic company called the Vaikuntha Players with many of the best artists in the movement. Some of them were actors and actresses, some of them were dancers, and some were both. So, in the last pandal in 1977, the Vaikuntha Players performed Rāmāyaṇa, and Prajapati Prabhu played Lord Rama, and Lohitaksha Prabhu was there, his good wife Rasagya Mataji, and the people of Bombay were overwhelmed. They had never seen such a professional quality performance with beautiful costumes, powerful acting, and some beautiful dance.

And at the end of the performance, Prajapati Prabhu and the other actors who had played Lakshman, Sita, and Hanuman, came forward and they assumed the formal pose, just like the Deities of Sita, Rama, and Lakshman at the Juhu temple, and Lord Rama addressed the audience as Lord Rama. And he said, “I am very pleased with all of you who have come here tonight. Now, My devotees are building a temple for Me at Juhu. And I request all of you to contribute to your capacity.” And then, Lord Rama took off His helmet and extended His helmet for the people in the audience to give donations. And then, the other devotees went through the crowd with baskets, and the people were giving profusely. And the mood in the pandal at the time was as if Sita and Lakshman and Hanuman and Lord Rama Himself were personally present and Lord Rama Himself was speaking and appealing to the audience to give for His temple to be constructed by His devotees in Juhu.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:31:59].

I’d like to, I wish I could, probably if I wasn’t, but she must have been Sita. And who was Lohitaksha, Hanuman? Whoever played Hanuman did a wonderful dance.

Devotee: Yeah, it was Lohitaksha.

Giriraj Swami: It was called ‘The dance of Hanuman.’ It was one of the highlights. Maybe he was Lakshaman, I don’t remember.

So, Prajapati Prabhu played Lord Rama, and Rasagya played Sita. She was a brilliant actress and dancer. And Rasagya’s husband, Lohitaksha, I believe, played Hanuman, and he did a fantastic number called, ‘The Dance of Hanuman.’ When Hanuman’s tail was set on fire and he in turn set Lanka on fire, it was just wonderful.

Also, during the last Bombay pandal, Srila Prabhupada performed initiations. Perhaps the last public ceremony with the fire sacrifice, and many devotees were initiated that day, and many of them were given names related to Rama. One of the new initiates was an architect from Austria, who’d helped soar up with the Juhu project, and he was given the name Rajaram. There were other devotees in the pūjārī department. They were given the names Raghupathi Ragava and Raja Rama. No, wait a second. Okay. And Srila Prabhupada gave many of them names from the pastimes of Lord Rama.

One devotee was an architect from Austria, who would have assisted soaring on the Juhu project. He was given the name Raja Ram. Then, there were two very nice pūjārīs, one from Bengal, he was given the name Raghupati Raghava, and the other was from Orissa, and he was given the name Ram Raghava. So, it was another great occasion. And Rajaram’s wife was given the name Rasa Bihari dasi.

Devotee: Okay, I think we’ve gotten the main.