Experiencing the Bliss of Krishna Consciousness—Q&A at Sarvatma’s

Question: You are saying that Krishna consciousness is an enjoyable process but sometimes in the beginning it is not. We have to give up so many things—Sometimes we see people are enjoying lot more than devotees practically.

Sarvatma: Well, I always have some bandage around me because I have very sensitive skin. I have psoriasis and I can bleed very easily and sometimes there is a very delicate area like this part of the arm where it is very hairy. So at a certain point there is no bleeding, there is nothing, so I have to take this bandage off and there is only one way to take it—very fast and very hard and it takes a lot of hair with it and it hurts. But what is the point of keeping a dirty, useless bandage with you? Actually there are things that are difficult to give up like this dirty bandage. We don’t see them until we get rid of them because we are—I am attached to this bandage staying where it is but it is not a good idea. It is not a good idea. So all the things that we have that we see other people enjoy more is also relative. I will give an example. Let’s say somebody, a nice devotee wakes up early in the morning, takes a bath, go to the temple and chant, experiencing happiness glorifying Krishna and then read, studies philosophy. He is with all his friends, takes spiritualized food, wonderful vegetarian food offered to Krishna and then takes a little nap and then goes out in the street. Then there is another person who just got up, kind of wakes up a little bit, eats beacon eggs, smokes a couple of cigarettes, walks out with the same cloth he slept on, takes a crowded bus or a car, sits up in the traffic for quite a while and then his stomach is growling, from displeasure from the breakfast, coughing because of the cigarettes, all of a sudden just thinking about the job he hates and the people he has to hang out with and then meets that devotee; at the same time he came across, looks at the devotee and says, “Why don’t you get a job?!” And the devotee thinks, “Oh Yes! May be I should do that. This person looks very happy. He is very together, nice suit and I am just—yes maybe I should do that. We have to actually see what that person’s mind is like, why is that person like that. So we have to be just a little more open minded if I can say and appreciative of what we have and not just see the reflection or something. It is like seeing maya. Maya is working as a puppeteer and is shining behind something that looks attractive but as soon as you try to get it then maya is somewhere else. You know the glitter is somewhere else and you just-, “Oh Yes may be that, may be this.” A person with an uncontrolled mind is never going to be happy. And that is what appears to be a happy person to you obviously to you. It is an illusion. We just have to pray for strength to see through these things.

Giriraj Swami: What you said is perfect and it answered the question. He mentioned within the question in the beginning but I will just give a little idea of what happened a little later and that is that one begins to experience spiritual happiness and has personal realization of the difference between genuine spiritual happiness and illusory material so called pleasure, and you know one sees not only that he is enjoying in a different way than other people but he sees that what people are experiencing which they may consider to be pleasure is not really pleasure but they have no other experience or standard and then one wants to help them to experience the real happiness of Krishna consciousness and one does so to the capacity of the person to accept. 

Sometimes in an organization, it may be a religious organization or political organization or any organization there is certain zealousness or even fanaticism to go out and win converts or get new recruits and that is natural. One may have had some temporary experience that one wants to share with others or one may just want to get more people to join in order to further the cause that one identifies with. But when one actually experiences the higher taste of Krishna consciousness then his impetus to encourage others or coax others along the path so that eventually they can also have the same experience of Krishna consciousness is not based on any ulterior motive but it is just based on the genuine care for the other person and desire to see the other person experience something that is not only a different standard of happiness what we may say real happiness but it is a happiness that transcends material conditions even the loss of the body at the time of death, and therefore one helps them or tries to help them but at the same time it is a gradual process and the process may span more than lifetime and therefore a devotee who is the well-wisher of humanity is also patient as Sarvatma Prabhu mentioned, he is also patient and he knows whatever progress they make, however little even one baby step, it will stay with them and it will help them to begin from the next step even in the next life. So, yes, in the beginning we need to hear, we need to associate with devotees and hear from them because we are just coming out of the intoxication of material life where the glimmer of material happiness still attracts us and by associating with devotees and hearing from them and reading Vedic literatures one begins to see, “Yes it is true it is not all that nice in the material world.” Probably most of the people in Santa Barbara read the same newspaper that Sarvatma read the other day but they don’t come to the same conclusion because they are intoxicated. They are inebriated. They will read the news but then they will also read the adds, “Oh, if you buy this you will be happy, if you get this or you get that, that will make you happy,” and that is what they see and they come around. They come away from reading the newspaper thinking that by some material adjustment or some material process they will find happiness. 

So we need the association of devotees. We need to hear from devotees. We need to read the scriptures in the association of devotees who are somewhat sober and then hearing their sober words will help us to become sober. You know it is like I think the first principle in alcoholic synonymous, or whatever it is, is not to hang out with the same people that you used to drink with. You need to associate with other people who have gone through the process of giving up the intoxication and who will support you in your own effort. So we have the same principle here. We have to avoid the association of people who are taking the same intoxicant that we know has gotten us into trouble and we associate with people who have gone through the process of giving it up even if they are not completely 100 percent successful in giving it up but they by large given it up and are definitely more successful so far than we have and they can help us. In the meantime that is the best support we can get—the association of devotees. The words of Vedic literatures that they have that they repeat with their own realizations and experiences and at the same time to chant because that is the most important process in bhakti-yoga to chant and by chanting, chanting, chanting, chanting we begin to experience the higher taste for Krishna consciousness. Of course we always want the association of devotees but when we actually experience the pleasure of Krishna consciousness through chanting and serving Krishna then we don’t have to be so weary of meeting with people who are not Krishna conscious because we can see them in the proper perspective at least from the Krishna conscious perspective and see that they are really not happy. Because of the intoxication they may believe that they are happy but actually they are not happy from another standard and then we extend ourselves to them and we try to help them.

Sarvatma: Maharaja, when a devotee has this air of superiority like I know what you should be doing and even if you try to help someone to reach your platform and that person doesn’t want to be there. He doesn’t make it but well you have done your duty so now you feel superior. You have done your duty and still feel better than the other person. Or on the contrary you may feel helpless and inferior by thinking, ‘Oh I can’t help this person. So what is the right way to think or feel when you try to help someone else?

Giriraj Swami: As I mention the whole process is gradual as you said also, the whole process is gradual and it may span more than one lifetime but Krishna consciousness is so potent that even a little association with it can help a person to the point that if they just appreciate a devotee. If someone just appreciates a devotee, he or she will make spiritual advancement. Srila Prabhupada gave the example, of course the principle is there in the Vedic literatures, but Srila Prabhupada gave the example if some devotees are walking down the street and someone sees them from the window and just thinks, ‘Oh they look like very nice people.” Then the person will make spiritual advancement just by appreciating the devotee. So even if we can do nothing else at least if we deal with people in such a way that they appreciate us that is the beginning. And at the same time to the extent that we are properly situated in our own Krishna consciousness we can see things in better perspective and we can see people’s hearts better and see sort of like the spark of goodness in their hearts and fan the spark, encourage them to whatever extent we can. And sometimes people have doubts, sometimes people have arguments and in the mood of helping them, not based on false ego but in the mood of helping them we can show the fallacy of their argument or the folly of it. But if we still feel proud, if we feel we are superior to others because we have knowledge that they don’t have it means that we are still to some extent involved with maya. The pleasure that one gets from feeling that one is superior to others is maya, it is just like lust, greed, anger, all other things that we mentioned but when one actually starts to experience the real taste of Krishna consciousness, when the false happiness of the sense of false superiority also has no attraction and is seen as an obstacle just like any other material attraction is an obstacle to one’s experience of real happiness of Krishna consciousness and one leaves and go. If it comes up one see ‘urgh’ I am not here for that and one just lets it go.

Question: . . .My experience about trying to push Krishna consciousness or preach Krishna consciousness—and now I find myself I am working, have a job and things like that and sometimes like I find it fearful to really tell people about Krishna consciousness because I might appear to be preaching or something too much. How do you overcome that fear, how do you really try give people Krishna consciousness but in a more mature way in a more—

Sarvatma: I think just the desire to help others is commendable. Krishna, being not only in their heart but also in your heart, will give you guidance how to intelligently extend what you have in such way that they will see your intention. You don’t have to say too much or do too much basically your life should be a reflection of your consciousness so they should pick up more from what you do than from what you say. I think finding an argument won’t do anything if it is not backed up by your own lifestyle. So people will come to you eventually. People will ask you what do you do, why is it that you look peaceful and serene and happy in the midst of all this. What are you doing that I am not? Then that is your opening, that is your cue. Then no matter what do or you say because they asked for it, the reception will be different whereas if you volunteer to say something when they are not open to the idea it is a complete waste of time. Once I was in Florida and there was this very nice girl student who I could see-. When I arrived to that place I could see she was very good material to be a devotee, a transcendentalist, a spiritualist, not whatever she was doing at the time. And I could also see that she was not ready at all. And she would come once in a while. We have programs every week but she would come every couple of months may be and I was always nice to her but I never talked to her about Krishna consciousness. She came, she chanted, she ate, she left. That was it. That was the relationship. Then one day she came and I was painting the house, the outside of the house and I could see the mirror had changed. There was something that wasn’t the same. She was actually ready for some reason. I could perceive that. So I said, “How are you?” She actually opened up and said, ”Well I am not so well” So I didn’t want to talk to her then. I said, “Why don’t you come tomorrow and help me paint the house?” It was a collective activity it was not like me and her. There was a bunch of people there. “So why don’t you come and join us and help us paint the house.” She said, “Sure.” When she came we talked and she was totally receptive, totally receptive. That changed because she was ready to hear. Then I could say anything I wanted. I still could do wrong but I did not hopefully and that is all it takes. It takes someone who is ready. You can talk to anybody and only one person would be listening or you may talk to a roomful of people and you think you are talking to one person and that person is not listening. The other person he doesn’t look like he is listening is actually paying attention and he is thinking, “Yes this makes sense. I should help myself. I should take advantage of this and change my life.” So it is case by case. You have to use your discrimination. Definitely you have to be very aware of the person you are with even if you don’t want to speak you have to be very aware that the person is listening.

Giriraj Swami: Just to put the same idea in more technical terms. The first determination that a devotee or preacher has to make is whether the person is a devotee, and by that I don’t mean a Hare Krishna devotee but I mean a theist; whether the person is innocent and could be open to Krishna consciousness if it was presented to the person or if the person is just going in a completely different direction. And to determine how open a person might be (of course, one may have an intuitive sense like Sarvatma Prabhu) one could just sort of bring up the subject of God or spiritual values without specific reference to Krishna consciousness and just see where they stand and even then the ones that have faith in God some are open to learning more about God and how to approach God and some while they have some faith in God they are attached to a particular process or tradition and they are not really open to any other process or tradition. So if they believe in God and are ready to talk about God, one can talk and even if they are attached to a particular tradition we can still encourage them in their God consciousness, even they stay in their tradition and if someone has some interest in God and spiritual knowledge then we can tell them and much of the knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā is appropriate for anyone and knowledge of the soul is appropriate for anyone. What is the difference between a living body and a dead body?

Like now there is so much concern about war and peace so we can say in a general sense that God is the supreme father and only when people accept Him as the supreme father will we know that we are all brothers. The sense of brotherhood can only exist when we know that there is a common father who is God or the idea that the soul within everybody is the same. We are identifying with the body, like I am Muslim, or I am Jewish or I am whatever, Irish, or whatever the different bodily identification are there that give rise to a particular conflict in a particular place. But if people realize they are not Hindu they are not Christian, they are not Muslim, they are not white, they are not black, they are not men, they are not women, they are not American or Chinese or Russian but they are all spirit souls, part and parcel of God then we won’t fight over the different designations and that is also a principle that anyone of any religious tradition can appreciate very much. So you just have to see where people are and try to encourage them in God consciousness and when they come to the point where they really want to learn more about God, then we can tell them more about the personality of Godhead and I think a lot has to do with your own desire. Some people they actually don’t want people to know that they are devotees so they hide the fact that they are devotees as much as they can but when you come to the stage where you actually have some enthusiasm to speak to people about Krishna consciousness then you will do little things that will let them know that you are Krishna conscious or there are something different about you it might be the neck beads or whatever it might be or a book that you are carrying with you just give them sort of an indication that you are pursuing some spiritual path so that if they want to talk at a certain point they already have an indication that you are someone they could talk to and that depends on you sometimes people go through stages where they don’t want to talk about it- whatever-they don’t want people to know and one may go through a stage where one is actually enthusiastic to talk about it and just looking for a chance and then let like little indications so people will have a chance that they can take advantage of.

Sarvatma: I got news that the dinner is just about ready—which was the main question in everybody’s mind at this point. So thank you for your patience.