SB 10.3.53

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Ten, Chapter Three, The Birth of Lord Krishna, Text Fifty-Three.

TEXT 53

yaśodā nanda-patnī ca
jātaṁ param abudhyata
na tal-liṅgaṁ pariśrāntā
nidrayāpagata-smṛtiḥ

TRANSLATION

Exhausted by the labor of childbirth, Yaśodā was overwhelmed with sleep and unable to understand what kind of child had been born to her.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Nanda Mahārāja and Vasudeva were intimate friends, and so were their wives, Yaśodā and Devakī. Although their names were different, they were practically nondifferent personalities. The only difference is that Devakī was able to understand that the Supreme Personality of Godhead had been born to her and had now changed into Kṛṣṇa, whereas Yaśodā was not able to understand what kind of child had been born to her. Yaśodā was such an advanced devotee that she never regarded Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but simply loved Him as her own child. Devakī, however, knew from the very beginning that although Kṛṣṇa was her son, He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In Vṛndāvana, no one regarded Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When something very wonderful happened because of Kṛṣṇa’s activities, the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana — the cowherd men, the cowherd boys, Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodā and the others — were surprised, but they never considered their son Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sometimes they suggested that some great demigod had appeared there as Kṛṣṇa. In such an exalted status of devotional service, a devotee forgets the position of Kṛṣṇa and intensely loves the Supreme Personality of Godhead without understanding His position. This is called kevala-bhakti and is distinct from the stages of jñāna and jñānamayī bhakti.

Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports of the Tenth Canto, Third Chapter, of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, entitled “The Birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa.”

COMMENT

So, we have come to a very special place in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Although the Tenth Canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam deals specifically with the pastimes of Krishna, but up until now, the pastimes have been about Krishna in Mathura. And here, as an introduction to Krishna’s pastimes in Vrindavan, Srila Prabhupada explains the specific characteristic of the love of the devotees in Vrindavan for Krishna, and that is they are not conscious that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Now, in the material world, so many people do not know that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but their ignorance is not favorable to Krishna consciousness. In fact, their ignorance keeps them bound to the material world. And therefore, our prime duty as servants of Krishna and followers of Srila Prabhupada is to educate people in Krishna consciousness so that they are not ignorant of the identity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their ignorance of Krishna’s Godhood is maya. It is the illusion that makes them forget Krishna, or God.

But the residents of Vrindavan are fully Krishna conscious, they never forget Krishna even for a moment. They just forget that He is God, and such forgetfulness or ignorance, if you will, is caused by yoga-māyā, to facilitate the pastimes of Krishna in Vrindavan. Maya or mahā-māyā, the maya that governs the material world, conceals the Supreme Personality of Godhead from people so that they forget Him. [Unintelligible 00:25:25]. But yoga-māyā allows devotees to remember Krishna. And in the most exalted stages of love of Godhead, they remember Krishna, but they forget that He is God.

So, how does yoga-māyā actually facilitate the Lord’s pastimes? Srila Prabhupada explains that in general, the Lord is worshiped with great awe, and reverence, with eloquent prayers, and elaborate rituals. But sometimes He gets tired of being worshiped as God.

Srila Prabhupada tells the story of the prime minister of England, that once, a gentleman came to meet the prime minister of England, and he was told, “The prime minister is engaged, you will have to wait.” So, the gentleman was waiting, waiting, waiting, but there was no indication when he would be able to meet the prime minister. So, he opened the door slightly, just to peek in and see what the prime minister was doing. And the prime minister was on the floor, on his hands and knees, and his grandson was riding on his back, “Okay horsey, come on, come on.” And the grandson and the prime minister both were enjoying. So, the prime minister, he was tired of being respected as the prime minister of the British empire. He himself wanted to forget that he was the prime minister and just enjoy with his grandson.

So, Srila Prabhupada explains Krishna also wants to take the position of being the servant of His devotees. He enjoys being subordinate to the love of His devotees. He is not exactly subordinate to His devotees, but He is subordinate to their love. So, in order to enjoy such intimate pastimes, the devotees actually forget that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise, they could never play with Him with such intimacy. If the grandchild was conscious, “My grandfather is the prime minister of England,” he could never ride on his back and treat him like a horse. So, both Krishna and the devotees, by the influence of yoga-māyā, forget that Krishna is the Personality of Godhead. And thus, they can enjoy pastimes with great intimacy.

So, in the kingdom of God, there are different divisions or sections. And in the Vaikuntha planets, where the predominating Deity is Lord Narayana, the devotees worship Him with awe and reverence. They are fully conscious of His majesty as the Personality of Godhead. But in Goloka Vrindavan, the devotees are not conscious of Krishna’s opulences, but they regard Him as the darling son of Yasoda. So, Krishna’s pastimes in Vrindavan are called nara-līlā, they are human-like pastimes, and the devotees in Vrindavan consider themselves to be ordinary human beings who happen to live in a cowherd village. Krishna Himself also reciprocates with them, and He acts just like a human being. And by the influence of yoga-māyā, He also forgets that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So, when mother Yasoda takes up the stick and Lord Krishna is trembling in fear, Krishna is not pretending to be afraid, He is actually feeling afraid, because by the influence of yoga-māyā, He actually feels that He is a small child, and He actually feels that Mother Yasoda is His mother, and she has full power to chastise Him.

Now, Krishna has many qualities, and according to our previous acharyas, His greatest quality, or most sublime quality is His affection for His devotees, bhakta-vatsala, and all of His other qualities and all of His other purposes are subordinated to His quality of being affectionate to His devotees, and His purpose of giving pleasure to His devotees. And yoga-māyā, as the servant of Krishna. . . Yoga-māyā is the spiritual energy of Krishna. Mahā-māyā is the material energy, and she also is the servant of Krishna. But yoga-māyā, as the servant of Krishna in the spiritual world, facilitates the Lord’s pastimes by causing the residents of Vrindavan to forget that He is God, and even causing Him to forget that He is God.

But sometimes there is a need for Krishna to know that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For example, so many demons would come to Vrindavan. Now, if Krishna thought, I am just a five-year-old child. Like He was afraid of the stick of mother Yasoda, if He became afraid of the demon and ran away, “Mother, mother, save me, save me,” then the whole Vrindavan līlā would be spoiled. So, when there is need, yoga-māyā removes her influence on Krishna that makes Him forget that He is God and allows Him to remember that He is God. So, without any fear at all, He disposes of the demons. Sometimes there was a forest fire in Vrindavan, and all the residents of Vrindavan came to Krishna to protect them. So, yoga-māyā withdrew her influence on Krishna and allowed Him to remember that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And thus, He could swallow the forest fire.

Now, what happened when Krishna exhibited such extraordinary strength, such extraordinary powers? What did the residents of Vrindavan think then? So, they thought in different ways. Nanda Maharaja thought that because of His worship of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva, Krishna was always protected from calamities, and Mother Yasoda thought because of her different rituals that she performed for Krishna’s protection, He was saved. And sometimes, the residents of Vrindavan thought, Well, maybe He is a demigod who has taken birth in Vraja. But they were not sure, they only thought.

But there was one incident where Krishna exhibited such supernatural prowess in front of everyone. Sometimes they would hear the stories, the cowherd boys would come and say, “There was a big demon who assumed the form of a snake and we all went inside of him and then Krishna came, and He expanded Himself and killed the snake.” And the others were saying, “They are just children, they may be just making up stories.” So, much of the time, the adults did not believe the stories about Krishna, or they did not actually witness the pastimes. But when Krishna lifted Govardhana Hill and held it like an umbrella for seven days, all the residents of Vrindavan saw, including the elders; parents, grandparents.

And after the pastime, the residents of Vrindavan, the men in that culture got together and they had an assembly, and they told Nanda Maharaja, “Your son, Krishna, is not an ordinary child. He may be some demigod who has taken birth here. He is not an ordinary child. You should not chastise Him. You should not punish Him.” And for a moment, this awareness of Krishna’s opulences threatened to overtake the parental affection of Nanda Maharaja and the other elders of Vrindavan. But then, yoga-māyā exercised her influence again, and Nanda Maharaja said, “What are you talking about? My child Krishna becomes so hungry that if His mother does not feed Him immediately, He throws a tantrum and starts breaking pots of butter and yogurt. Even ordinary yogis, they can control their senses. But my son has no control over His senses at all. If He is hungry, He has a fit if He is not fed immediately.”

So, in this way, Nanda Maharaja remembered all the childhood pastimes of Krishna where He exhibited His human-like behavior; going to the houses of the neighbors’ and stealing butter. Even an ordinary gentleman, or even a child that is well behaved won’t go into other people’s houses and steal. So, Nanda Maharaja said, “My son Krishna goes to other people’s houses and steals their butter and pinches their babies. You want me to believe He is some demigod? No, no.” And hearing these human-like childhood pastimes of Krishna, they all forgot, and they resumed their normal mood of parental affection.

So, yoga-māyā, when required, will allow Krishna to be conscious of His supernatural powers, but when not required, she will facilitate the intimate loving affairs of Krishna in the residents of Vrindavan by making them forget that Krishna is God. And therefore, the cowherd boys play with Krishna, they sport with Krishna, they wrestle with Krishna. And in their games, if Krishna is defeated, then He has to carry the cowherd boys on His shoulders. And of course, the parents, Nanda and Yasoda, sometimes chastise Krishna, and the gopīs, they also criticize Krishna and accuse Him of so many things. So, they could not do that if they were conscious that Krishna was God. And therefore, the only relationship that devotees could have with God would be that of a servant, in awe and reverence, as is common in most religious traditions.

And therefore, Srila Prabhupada has described the special feature of Krishna consciousness, that in other religions, generally, people pray to God as the father, “Dear God, give us our daily bread.” But in Krishna consciousness, the devotee can actually see Krishna as one’s own child, and feel like mother Yasoda, “If I don’t feed Krishna, Krishna will starve. He will become weak, He may die.”

So, that is a superior conception, and the conception that God is the father, the devotee actually takes service from God, “God, give us this daily bread.” Children generally take service from their parents. The parents have to bathe them, change them, clean up their mess, feed them, and educate them. And the parent is the one who is rendering the service. So, when the conception of God as the supreme father, which is also good, but still, mainly, the devotees are taking service from God, whereas when God becomes the son, then the devotee is always thinking of rendering service to God in the form of the child. And that is a superior conception.

So, the love of the residents of Vrindavan where they are not aware of Krishna’s Godhood is called kevala bhakti. Most of what I have been explaining is in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, in Lord Chaitanya’s instructions to Rupa Gosvami, and in His instructions to Sanatana Gosvami. So, kevala bhakti means pure bhakti, in the sense that it is completely spontaneous, there is no consideration, “Because Krishna is God, therefore I must serve Him.” But spontaneously, the devotees serve Him out of love. They don’t think about it, but they just love Him and they want to see that He is happy in all respects.

Whereas in, as Srila Prabhupada mentions here, jnana maya bhakti, or as Caitanya-caritāmṛta says jnana misra bhakti, the pure love is mixed with the knowledge of the Lord’s supremacy and the Lord’s majesty, and that knowledge becomes an impediment to the higher rasas like pure sākhya-rasa, vātsalya-rasa, and mādhurya-rasa. Now, on rare occasions, the residents of Vrindavan do become conscious of Krishna’s divinity, and that is when they feel intense separation from Him after He leaves Vrindavan.

Sometimes the gopīs accuse Krishna of being a debauchee and so many things, and they say, “We have heard from Paurnamasi. . .” Paurnamasi is actually yoga-māyā, but she plays the part of an elderly brahman lady, and she is like a śikṣā-guru in Vraja. So, they say, “We have heard from Paurnamasi that in Your previous lives, you were Vamanadeva. And as Vamanadeva, You cheated Bali Maharaja. You took the form of a small brahman and You asked for three steps of land. And he agreed, he was a charitable person, he agreed. And then, You expanded Yourself into a gigantic form and took three steps from your gigantic form. But You did not ask for three steps in Your gigantic form. You asked for three steps in Your little form. So, You cheated him, You are a cheater. We also heard that in Your past life, You were Rama. As Rama, You were so attached to Sita that when Surpankha came to You, instead of fulfilling her desires, You disfigured her. So, we can see that You are a cheater and You are very attached to women.”

So, the idea is that when they are in separation from Krishna, they can’t remember His Godhood. Or like when the bumble bee came. I don’t know whether that’s really an example of that. That’s a separation. And Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura gives the example that when a person draws the milk from the cow and then puts the milk to boil, there may be some little pieces of straw that get in the pot. So, when the milk is standing, you don’t see the straw. But when you actually put the milk on the fire to boil and it starts to boil, the straw will come to the surface for a minute and then go back down.

So, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says that when the fire of separation becomes so intense, so hot that the devotees’ transcendental emotions are boiling over, that little awareness of Krishna’s Godhead that usually stays at the bottom and is not perceived, that comes to the surface for a few moments, and they say whatever they have to say. And then, it goes back down again. So, these are some of the intricacies.

I will just conclude with one last point from Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, that we, of course, are devotees of Srila Prabhupada and we are devotees of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, but we are also devotees of Krishna in Vrindavan, I mean, aspiring to be. So, we are praying to Krishna in Vrindavan to engage us in His service. But if Krishna in Vrindavan is covered by yoga-māyā and He forgets that He is God and He is completely absorbed in His pastimes with His devotees in Vrindavan, how will He hear our prayers? So, someone can say, “Well, Lord Narayana will hear your prayers, the Supersoul will hear your prayers.” But we don’t want Lord. . . I mean, we do. I mean, we want Krishna.

So, there also yoga-māyā helps the devotees, that even though Krishna is absorbed in His play with His friends and mother and father and cows and calves, yoga-māyā also will allow Him to hear our prayers, and then again, she will allow Him to forget that He is God and go back to His play with His friends. So, this is the very elevated Krishna consciousness of the residents of Vrindavan, and this is the specific contribution of the Krishna consciousness movement to the western world, that one can love God in such an intimate way.

Hare Krishna.

Devotee: The idea you mentioned that the residents of Vrindavan, they remember Krishna’s divinity in the intensity of the mood of separation. But you mentioned that when He was gone from Vrindavan, but it also happens during the rasa dance, that He is not in Vrindavan. Some of them were also saying, “You are not really the son of Yasoda, You are praying to Lord Rama, You appeared in the dynasty.” But the next moment, they chastised Him for leaving.

Giriraj Swami: It’s the separation. It is not just when He leaves Vrindavan.

Devotee: You said that yoga-māyā withdraws her illusory covering when there is need for Krishna to remember that He is God. So, I was thinking, What was the need for Krishna to remember that He is God? And when His mother wanted to bind Him with a rope and she was not able to, obviously, He was doing something. And also, when Yasoda looked in His mouth to look for dirt, He showed her the whole universe.

Giriraj Swami: Well, Krishna is very playful.

Devotee: In other words, it appears that it wasn’t yoga-māyā, it was Krishna. To me, those two incidents show that at least at that time, it wasn’t yoga-māyā that decided, “Okay, Krishna, you can remember that You are God,” but it was Krishna Himself.

Giriraj Swami: Well, how do you deduce that it was not yoga-māyā? In other words, let me explain another point of view. Krishna has many devotees. He has devotees in mādhurya-rasa, in vātsalya-rasa, in sākhya-rasa, dāsya-rasa, in śānta-rasa. He has devotees who worship Him in different incarnations, and He has devotees in the material world. Not only that, He has parts and parcels in the material world who have completely forgotten that they are His devotees, although by constitution, they are.

So, yoga-māyā, as the servant of Krishna, knows that Krishna loves all of His devotees. He loves every living entity, and every living entity is meant to be His devotee. And therefore, she organizes Krishna’s pastimes in such a way that they are beneficial for everyone. So, if Krishna only manifested His Godly opulences in Vrindavan, when demons came, it would not be a complete picture of Godhead. And it would not, on the one hand, attract us as much, and on the other hand, it would not enlighten us as much.

So, as Caitanya-caritāmṛta says and Srila Prabhupada says, Krishna appears in the world in His human-like form to create subject matter for devotees to hear about Him and think of Him. So, that is also another purpose for Krishna, and another purpose of yoga-māyā, to have pastimes that attract us to Him, so that we can talk about Him, and remember Him, and glorify Him, like we are now. And so, the dāmodara-līlā is one of the most charming of all of Krishna’s pastimes. I mean, ultimately, everything is Krishna. I mean, we say yoga-māyā, but ultimately, it’s Krishna, everything is ultimately coming from Krishna. But there is no need to deduce that yoga-māyā was not involved in the dāmodara-līlā, for example.

Devotee: When I hear about the different rasas, I personally feel far away from that. Usually, I don’t worry about that, I just worry about doing my service. But sometimes I start worrying about that.

Giriraj Swami: You never need to worry. You are right. Our duty is to chant our rounds without offense, as far as possible, follow the regulative principles, and serve Srila Prabhupada’s mission. There are people that say that one has to cultivate different esoteric practices in order to achieve vraja-bhakti. But my conviction after so many years is that if we just serve Srila Prabhupada and the Pancha-tattva, by their mercy, we will achieve the highest perfection of Krishna consciousness. We don’t really need to artificially worry about esoteric practices or even desires.

Devotee: But what about books? I have read that interesting little pastime that you related how at the end of a wonderful Krishna Chapter, when all the gopīs got together and they started recounting Krishna’s wonderful activities, because they have just seen the dāmodara-līlā, so they said, “Yeah, He killed [Unintelligible 00:59:23], maybe He is a demigod.” And so, His divinity was kind of beginning to shine through and they weren’t able to think of Him just as a little boy. [Unintelligible 00:59:34]. Now, that’s not in the Bhāgavatam. You must have gotten it from Visvanatha or from the commentaries on that Chapter. Okay. So now, what about that material? Do we have to worry, or should we be eager to find that out and search that up?

Giriraj Swami: Okay, that’s a good question.

Devotee: Can I interject just to help you for one minute?

Giriraj Swami: Please.

Devotee: I don’t want to put you on the spot. We have a policy from the GBC view of things, I’m just adding a little support here.

Giriraj Swami: No, if I can interrupt your interruption, what he is talking about is there in Srila Prabhupada’s books. We don’t have to go outside of Srila Prabhupada’s books. Yes, there are details, but now, you can help me.

Devotee: I was going to say that we are not. . . And I know you know this, but we are not allergic to the books of the Gosvamis or the great Vaishnava acharyas. The danger is hearing without them the lens through Srila Prabhupada’s teachings and practices. So, what we are finding is that advanced solid devotees, fixed in the path of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings and practices, we can get those stories from them, we can get those books translated by them, just like we have Venu Gītā, I mean, that draws from so many of our senior acharyas. But the problem is when we start seeing Prabhupada through a different lens. But we are not allergic to those books, as long as we hear them from saintly, realized ISKCON Prabhupada disciples that are senior, and in Prabhupada’s mood and practice.

[Unintelligible 01:01:43]. Because the whole approximate reason for this conversation is his question about, “Well, when do I start worrying about this, or when should I be eager or start to wonder? Should I get into all this stuff, or should I just do my service?” In other words, we have a certain amount of time during the day, and you say, “Alright, I have to search up Visvanatha Cakravarti’s commentary so I can understand what he says. Should I feel the need for that, or should I not feel the need for that?”

Giriraj Swami: Okay, that is what I thought you were asking, and here is my answer. By serving Srila Prabhupada and the disciplic succession through ISKCON, we can get whatever we desire spiritually. Now, in the gradual progression of Krishna consciousness, one will, in due course, develop more taste for hearing and chanting about Krishna. The Bhāgavatam says that by serving the great souls who are free from vice, great service is done. And by such service, one develops affinity for the message of Vasudeva. So, we work hard, but the result of the selfless service is that we develop taste for the message of kṛṣṇa-kathā.

Now, when we have that taste, that taste may be more for a particular type of kṛṣṇa-kathā than another, just like the taste for prasāda, that we know all prasāda is absolute and we should not discriminate on the basis of liking or disliking.

And in Indian temples, and even we used to do it in Bombay, we asked Srila Prabhupada, he said yes. They mixed all the mahā-prasāda together; the sweet rice, the gulābjāmun, the rice, the dal, the chutney, and then they took the mahā-prasāda like that. So, they are not taking on the basis of taste, but they are taking because it is mahā-prasāda. And they are not discriminating, “Let’s see, what do I like? Oh yeah, I will take that one. Oh no, no, I don’t like that one.” So, that’s there, but one can also take according to one’s taste. I mean, at a certain level, one can take according to one’s taste and not forget that it is prasāda, and just become like an animal devouring the food.

So, the same principle applies to kṛṣṇa-kathā, that when we develop taste, we may be more inclined to a particular type of kṛṣṇa-kathā than to another, but it is not that we are artificially trying to taste something that we don’t have taste for. We are serving Srila Prabhupada, [Unintelligible 01:05:55] that verse, we are serving Srila Prabhupada. We are not worried about even developing a taste, in a sense. We are doing our duty, chanting our rounds, we are coming to the morning programs, we are hearing the classes, and we are doing our service. But the result of that process is we develop taste. And when we develop taste, the taste may be more towards Chaitanya, it may be more towards Krishna, it may be more towards Rama, whatever.

And there is nothing wrong with reading the books that we want to read. I mean, assuming that they are coming from Srila Prabhupada and his followers. I mean, as a new devotee in Gorakhpur, as a two-year-old devotee, I asked Srila Prabhupada is there some order in which we should read his books or can we just read from any place, and Srila Prabhupada said, “Wherever you have taste, you can read.” So, I think that the same principle applies.

So, we don’t worry about it. We just worry about how to serve Srila Prabhupada, follow his instructions. But when the time comes that we have more taste and we want to read more, then that is not artificial, that is a natural result of serving the pure devotee. But there are devotees or camps of devotees that, I would say, artificially try to focus on some type of kṛṣṇa-kathā, and that to me is not beneficial. It would really be better if they just did humble service to Srila Prabhupada and his mission, and then as they develop taste, it will be natural, it won’t be artificial. It won’t be outside of Srila Prabhupada.

Devotee: This is not going to be on that subject, but is there a time when there might have been a prearranged agreement between yoga-māyā and Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan, “This will be your role.” Was she another personality before or previously? Was something set up before it took place in Vrindavan? I’m just curious.

Giriraj Swami: She is asking if there was some arrangement between Krishna and yoga-māyā that she would have a special role in Vrindavan. Srila Prabhupada explains that Krishna and Krishna’s pastimes are eternal. Therefore, there is no beginning. Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that Krishna was one, and then when He wanted to enjoy, He expanded Himself. And the pleasure potency, which was within Krishna, came outside of Krishna as Srimati Radharani.

But Srila Prabhupada explains that we say that Krishna was one, and at a certain point, He wanted to enjoy, therefore, He expanded Srimati Radharani. But there never was a time when there was Krishna without Radharani, but we describe it in terms of past, present, and future. And in terms of cause and effect, because that’s how we can understand. But actually, They are eternal. So, in that way, one could say that Krishna told yoga-māyā to do this. But then again, Krishna is eternal, yoga-māyā is eternal, vrajavāsīs are eternal, and so on.

But sometimes, think of it, like the boss and the secretary. The boss will say, “Okay, I am going to sleep now. Wake me in two hours.” And then, the secretary wakes him or a servant wakes him in two hours.

Devotee: And the boss might say, “But if something special comes, wake me up.” So, this is for the prayers, out the prayers book.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that’s right. “But if so and so comes, wake me up anytime.” Yeah.

Devotee: I remember back in 1977 when Prabhupada disappeared, I had to be back in Vrindavan after he disappeared, and it was, of course, Kartik at that time. And for some reason, I was doing it a lot, I was memorizing a whole section of the Bhāgavatam. Those verses in the Eight Chapter, I think it is the binding pastime. And one of the verses describes, and Prabhupada gives it in the Kṛṣṇa book, how Krishna was crying and she caught Him [Unintelligible 01:12:23], but they were false tears. They were false, it is literally in Sanskrit. So, I understood then, maybe I misunderstood at that time, that this is sort of a play. He is not really crying, He is not really afraid, it is just a play. So, how do we understand that it’s right there in the Bhāgavatam, it’s false tears, not real tears.

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are things in the Bhāgavatam that are said for the benefit of devotees, or even other listeners who are not devotees. In the end of the description of rasa dance, Maharaja Parīkṣit asked some questions that did not really trouble him, but thinking of the others in the audience, he asked the questions. Thinking of future readers or listeners, he asked the questions. Because it is also there in Caitanya-caritāmṛta that by yoga-māyā’s influence, Krishna and His devotees forget themselves in their reckless pastimes.

Devotee: I accept your answer. I think it is accurate. But one could think, Okay, the Bhāgavatam says that, but it really means something else. So, that’s a huge loophole. [Unintelligible 01:14:04].

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I should clarify. It’s not that the statement about the tears being false is false, but it’s different points of view. In other words, an ordinary person will forget that Krishna is God by mahā-māyā, not yoga-māyā. So therefore, there are things in the Bhāgavatam, I mean, throughout the Tenth Canto actually, there are statements in the Bhāgavatam that remind us that Krishna is God, so that we don’t forget that He is God because of mahā-māyā, and the resemblance between the human pastimes.

So, the Upanishad says that the Lord has no legs and hands, and that means He has no material hands and legs, but He does have spiritual hands and legs. So, that’s how I would take it. There are false tears, if you are prone to think that He is an ordinary human being, crying tears of salt water like ordinary fearful children, they are false tears, they are not the real tears, if you think that’s what real tears are.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:15:42]. But when she leaves, He is angry. Being very angry and biting His [Unintelligible 01:16:15] with His teeth, He is angry because she left Him. Krishna, with false tears in His eyes, broke a container of yogurt with a piece of stone and He entered the room and began to eat. Prabhupada says it is natural that when a child becomes angry, he can begin crying with false tears in his eyes.

Giriraj Swami: That’s completely different.

Devotee: That’s the answer.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that’s. . .

Devotee: So, it’s still within the realm of a natural child. They do it all the time. They are mad at their mother, they cry for attention, but some kid walks in with a toy, they get right up, the whole thing was staged.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, I will just add one thing that I forgot to mention earlier. It crossed my mind, but it did not come out of my mouth.

It’s the idea that they actually might know that Krishna is God, but they forget. Again, this is Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, but it is all derived from the Bhāgavatam. It is inconceivable, it is not incomprehensible. I mean, in general terms, what Prabhupada said is absolutely right, Yasoda was not aware of Krishna’s divine opulences like Devaki was. But when Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura discusses it in more detail, he says that Yasoda may be aware, but it does not ever overcome her maternal affection. With Devaki, when she saw, her maternal affection completely abated, and she started offering prayers to Krishna as if He is God. But with mother Yasoda, her maternal affection is so powerful that nothing can overcome it.

And the example there is that. . . This was another example that Prabhupada gave of the difference between Vishnu and Krishna. They are the same person, but a high court judge, when he is sitting on a bench, he is addressed, “Your honor,” or “Your worship.” But when he is at home, his wife will say, “John, can you go to the store and bring some milk?” So, he is the same person, but when he is sitting in the high court bench, he is addressed as, “Your honor,” and when he is sleeping, he is addressed as, “John,” or whatever.

So, Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura gives the example that if Mother Yasoda hears that Krishna is God, and even if she tentatively accepts that He is God, she sort of like the mother whose son, (I’m using language to relate it to Prabhupada’s example), has become a high court judge. “I am the proud mother of John Smith, who is the high court judge.” She says, “I am the proud mother of Krishna. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but He is still my son.”

Devotee: “And You better listen to me.”

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Devotee: Maharaja, I thought you also said something very sweet, which is actually quite profound when you think about it. You said that something is inconceivable, but not incomprehensible. In other words, we can understand how Krishna is inconceivable, that’s a very mystical thing.

Giriraj Swami: You are a very mystical person because you picked up on it.

Devotee: No, you said it, so you are the mystical person.

Devotee: Further, the sahajiyās, they don’t like certain pastimes of Krishna, like His fighting and things like that. So, when you said the mother can love her son who is a high court judge but still love him as a mother, it seemed like Prabhupada, the way he thought, emphasized all aspects of Krishna [Unintelligible 01:21:29] she completely get into only one rasa and do not appreciate Krishna is other forms in material world, she only loves Him.

Giriraj Swami: That’s true, that’s true. I am glad you mentioned that, that a pure devotee, he appreciates Krishna in any form. And even Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, he was such a Vraja bhakta, he has written commentaries on the Bhagavad-gītā, he has written commentaries on the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And they don’t only write commentaries on the Tenth Canto or on the sections about Krishna, they write commentaries on the section about Varahadeva, about Hiraṇyakaśipu and Nṛsiṁhadeva, about Ramachandra. So, that’s true.

In fact, that idea that we only want to hear about Krishna, that’s not in our line. And even in Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta, all the devotees are glorified. All the devotees of all the incarnations are glorified, not just a certain type of devotees of a certain form of the Lord in certain relationships. So, I would say that’s the example of an attitude that is really not in our line, coming from Srila Prabhupada.

Devotee: We have the example of Srila Prabhupada. He certainly appreciated Krishna’s sweetest aspects, he spent so much time glorifying Him.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, it is a matter of having a proper perspective. I will tell a little anecdote that sort of goes in the opposite direction of what you said. Not that what you said is wrong, it’s just a matter of if we go too far this way, Prabhupada will bring us here, and if we go too far that way, he will bring us this way. But on Rama-navami in Juhu, there was a Gujarati devotee who had joined. And after the morning program, he announced, “Today’s Rama-navami, and you are all invited to come to the evening program, and we will have Rama doot.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “No, all the incarnations are included in Krishna.” And then in the evening, he spoke so powerfully, he said, “We know better than anyone who is Lord Ramachandra, but still, He is included in Krishna.” And then he gave a talk about Krishna on Rama-navami.