Giriraj Swami with Brhat-Mrdanga dasa and Mayapur dasa

Host: . . . his other services he founded the Bhaktivedanta College of Education and Culture in Durban and from Durban it spread to Mauritius. Now it has branches all over the world in Hong Kong, Philippines, Guinea, Mexico City, Dallas, Houston, Potomac, Washington, Toronto, and Vancouver, cannot even able to enumerate all the different places and presently he is also co-president of ISKCON in Vrindavan. He travels and teaches Srila Prabhupada’s books, principles of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. So we will request him to speak now.

Brhat Mrdanga dasa: So we will read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Seven, Chapter Nine entitled “Prahlada Maharaja Pacifies the Lord with Prayers”

TEXT 10

viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-
pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham
manye tad-arpita-mano-vacanehitārtha-
prāṇaṁ punāti sa kulaṁ na tu bhūrimānaḥ

TRANSLATION

If a brāhmaṇa has all twelve of the brahminical qualifications [as they are stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta] but is not a devotee and is averse to the lotus feet of the Lord, he is certainly lower than a devotee who is a dog-eater but who has dedicated everything — mind, words, activities, wealth and life — to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee is better than such a brāhmaṇa because the devotee can purify his whole family, whereas the so-called brāhmaṇa in a position of false prestige cannot purify even himself.

PURPORT

Here is a statement by Prahlāda Mahārāja, one of the twelve authorities, regarding the distinction between a devotee and a brāhmaṇa expert in karma-kāṇḍa, or Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. There are four varṇas and four āśramas, which divide human society, but the central principle is to become a first-class pure devotee. It is said in the Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya:

bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya
jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ
aprāṇasyaiva dehasya
maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam

“If one is born in a high family like that of a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya or vaiśya but is not a devotee of the Lord, all his good qualifications as a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya or vaiśya are null and void. Indeed, they are considered decorations of a dead body.”

In this verse Prahlāda Mahārāja speaks of the vipras, the learned brāhmaṇas. The learned brāhmaṇa is considered best among the divisions of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra, but a devotee born in a low caṇḍāla family is better than such brāhmaṇas, not to speak of the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and others. A devotee is better than anyone, for he is in the transcendental position on the Brahman platform.

māṁ ca yo vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

“One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.” (Bg. 14.26) The twelve qualities of a first-class brāhmaṇa, as stated in the book called Sanat-sujāta, are as follows:

jñānaṁ ca satyaṁ ca damaḥ śrutaṁ ca
hy amātsaryaṁ hrīs titikṣānasūyā
yajñaś ca dānaṁ ca dhṛtiḥ śamaś ca
mahā-vratā dvādaśa brāhmaṇasya

COMMENT by Brhat Mrdanga dasa

In the previous page in the bottom there is given these qualities and they are as follows: These are the true qualities of a perfect brahman:

Following religious principles, speaking truthfully, controlling the senses by undergoing austerities and penances, being free from jealousy, being intelligent, being tolerant, creating no enemies, performing yajña, giving charity, being steady, being well versed in Vedic study and observing vows. Prabhupada gives a nice end paragraph in the purport:

PURPORT (continued)

The European and American devotees in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are sometimes accepted as brāhmaṇas, but the so-called caste brāhmaṇas are very much envious of them. In answer to such envy, Prahlāda Mahārāja says that one who has been born in a brāhmaṇa family but is falsely proud of his prestigious position cannot even purify himself, not to speak of his family, whereas if a caṇḍāla, a lowborn person, is a devotee and has fully surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Lord, he can purify his entire family. We have had actual experience of how Americans and Europeans, because of their full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, have purified their whole families, so much so that a mother of a devotee, at the time of her death, inquired about Kṛṣṇa with her last breath. Therefore it is theoretically true and has been practically proven that a devotee can give the best service to his family, his community, his society and his nation. The foolish accuse a devotee of following the principle of escapism, but actually the fact is that a devotee is the right person to elevate his family. A devotee engages everything in the service of the Lord, and therefore he is always exalted.

COMMENT

One devotee, he was born in a high-class brahman family in India and he also was pure from birth, following the four principles and being vegetarian from birth and so forth. So later on he came in contact with Krishna consciousness and he became initiated by Srila Prabhupada. So in the course of his service to Srila Prabhupada over the years he found that he was more qualified from birth than Srila Prabhupada’s disciples from the West. That is how he felt at that time. So then when Srila Prabhupada was to give sannyasa to two of his disciples from America, he also requested for sannyasa from Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada asked him why he wants to take sannyasa; then he explained that his qualifications are far more higher than those from the West. He hasn’t sinned his whole life, so he was doing that to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada said, “You have to wait.” He was nice to him but you have to wait. But still after Srila Prabhupada gave those two devotees sannyasa in Mayapur, then he again approached Srila Prabhupada. He said, “Why didn’t I get sannyasa? Because I am born in a brahman family.” And so on and so forth. Then Srila Prabhupada said that you are too proud of your heritage and because of your pride you don’t have the simplicity to accept the sannyasa order. Then also Srila Prabhupada said to him that, “You know I have tried to spread Krishna consciousness for forty-three years from 1922 to 1965 in India but nobody really came forward to help me.” But he said, “When I came to New York in 1965 and within the space of a year, in 1966 so many of American boys and girls came forward to take shelter of Krishna consciousness and assist me in the Krishna consciousness movement.” So Srila Prabhupada was very firm with him but he wasn’t satisfied still. He was trying to push Srila Prabhupada should give him sannyasa. And eventually Srila Prabhupada told him that, “If I give you sannyasa and you make one mistake Lord Chaitanya will never forgive you but if I give sannyasa to my disciples from the West and even if they make many mistakes Lord Chaitanya will always forgive them.” Because he was proud of his qualifications. Eventually Srila Prabhupada did give him sannyasa but now he is not in ISKCON. He has his own society. 

So we find that one particular example of how birth is not really a qualification but affection and service to the spiritual master is the actual qualification, not one’s pride in that sense. Then another time Srila Prabhupada was on a morning walk in Calcutta and (this I heard from Tejas Prabhu who I recently associated with in India) He was walking and one disciple named Yasoda-nandana Swami at that time was also in the morning walk with Srila Prabhupada. So Yasoda Nanda Swami was quite affected by the Indian culture, how men and women don’t mix so freely and so forth. He was always glorifying the sort of womanhood of the Indians in India, how they were so cultured and so forth and at the same time he was sort of not so favorable towards women simultaneously from the West. So Prabhupada was hearing. Even he didn’t say much during that walk and well Yasoda-nandana Swami was talking like that. So then when Prabhupada came back to the Calcutta Temple, he was walking up the stairs and the stairs were such that you have to take a bent and go further up. There is a place where devotees wait for him to come back and specially all the mothers, the matajis were waiting for Srila Prabhupada to come back. So when Srila Prabhupada was walking up the stairs half way up and there is a broader area of the stairway before you go further up. So all the matajis were waiting for him there and Mother Yamuna was with a garland and she offered the garland to Srila Prabhupada immediately and she was higher because she was on the top and Srila Prabhupada accepted the garland and then Prabhupada turned round and he looked at Yasoda-nandana Swami and he said, “But if you associate with these women you will go back to Goloka Vrindavan. That is all he said and he went upstairs. 

So then another time Srila Prabhupada was sitting in his room in the old Delhi Temple and Tejas Prabhu was the president at that time also and Prabhupada was with his secretary in the room and Prabhupada was going through his correspondence and one letter was received from a person who was addicted to drugs but he was in jail in Los Angeles. And from the contents of the letter it could be understood that Prabhupada was corresponding quite often with this person, and there was correspondence previously over a number of times. So Prabhupada took that letter and told his secretary to put it in his file on the top in his almirah. Then at the same time there was a young American couple who had acquaintance with Srila Prabhupada in Los Angeles, they were in Delhi. So when they saw the devotees in the streets they said, “Oh we know you and we know your master, Srila Prabhupada.” So they said, “Our master is here. You can come and meet him.” So they came to meet Srila Prabhupada, the young American couple. Because Prior to that Prabhupada encouraged them to visit our temples in India if they are traveling abroad on holiday, touring, etc. So they did come to Delhi. When they entered the room Srila Prabhupada graciously received them. The secretary was present in the room. He made them sit down and inquired how they were and so forth. So then Srila Prabhupada asked the secretary to bring that last letter that he was reading. So the secretary brought the letter and Srila Prabhupada said give it to them to read. The secretary was surprised that Prabhupada’s own personal mail he gave some visiting couple from America to read. So after they read the letter the secretary was wondering what Prabhupada would say. Prabhupada said to the couple that, “Ah! Just see how he is trying for Krishna.” In other words, Srila Prabhupada had hope that even though this person was addicted to drugs and he is in a jail in Los Angeles that he had hope that the potentiality that he is a devotee and eventually take to the process of Krishna consciousness. Of course the hope is even greater because he was connected to Srila Prabhupada through correspondence. So we find that the compassion of the pure devotees is unlimited and the compassion of the pure devotee is not restricted to a particular class of people from a particular tract of land but the compassion is equally available for everyone. In fact it is more available to those who come to Krishna consciousness with the simplicity of not having any qualification, practically speaking. So in that way, that is the only qualification that we don’t have no qualification to come to Krishna consciousness and we get the full potency of receiving Krishna consciousness from the pure devotees. 

Now I recently came from Montreal and I gave the Sunday lecture. After the Sunday lecture they asked me to do a special program on Monday evening and I arrived here on Tuesday. So many devotees also came on the Monday evening and one Prabhupada disciple asked a question to me in the program. He said that he had been chanting for more than thirty years but internally he doesn’t feel that he sort of has any love for Krishna. I was a little stunned at the question because at first I felt his humility in the sense that he is saying that he does not have any love for Krishna. But he sort of insisted. He said, “No. I am not satisfied with your answer.” He said, “How can I feel love for Krishna? I am not feeling any love for Krishna after practicing Krishna consciousness for so many years.? But I was still convinced that he is speaking out of humility just out of sheer, simple deep humility. But He said, “No. You have to understand I have a problem. I don’t feel anything and I always think of going back to material life.” So I didn’t know what to say but then somewhere from somebody the answer came. So I quoted the verse for Nectar of Instruction, 

dadāti pratigṛhṇāti
guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati
bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva
ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam

—and then by the potency of his question he gave me the answer because I didn’t know what to say. You can see that by my association with him speaking like that he gave me the strength and potency to give an answer, which just came without even me thinking or considering what to say. And I was surprised by myself that I said that. So I said love for Krishna can only be experienced in the name of the society that Prabhupada has given us. So I said Prabhupada named the society, International Society for Krishna Consciousness. So then I stopped I couldn’t go any further. He said, “What do you mean?” Then I said well itself the name Krishna consciousness indicates that who is conscious of Krishna, it is not Krishna Himself per say, but consciousness of Krishna is coming from somebody else to make us conscious of Krishna. So the carriers or abode of consciousness of Krishna is not Krishna but the devotees. Because the devotees are conscious of Krishna they can give us love for Krishna but it is not directly Krishna Himself because Krishna is the object of our love. We have to love Him but who is loving Him is basically the devotees, who is offering service, who is engaged in service are the devotees of the Lord. So then when I mentioned to him that when we are convinced that the devotees are our very life; that the devotees are our very nutrition; that the devotees are our very existence and when we are convinced in the deepest ways that we cannot live without the devotees, that means that is love for Krishna. There is actually no other practical explanation for that and then I was quite surprised at myself because when I went back to the purport after I gave the lecture and I went to take rest but I said let me read again the dadāti pratigṛhṇāti principle. So in the purport Prabhupada very clearly he quotes particular verses. He says that the six loving exchanges are the actual nourishment to experience love for Krishna. He says ‘only nourishment to experience love for Krishna’ and also Prabhupada says and he quotes the verse, 

nitya-siddha-kṛṣṇa-prema ‘sādhya’ kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

That indicates that kṛṣṇa-prema can only be got by the six loving exchanges and that is why it is called ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam, it is prīti-lakṣaṇam, that is you can experience love for Krishna by the six loving exchanges among devotees. So I didn’t know what to really say although I tried to prepare for the class but when I was hearing Sarvatma’s chanting because that is the main prīti-lakṣaṇa. Prabhupada says in the purport the greatest gift that one can offer and also receive is the holy name. So when he was chanting I was also thinking about that and further on Prabhupada also quotes that another verse that struck me deeply also. He says sa vai puṁsāṁ in the same purport, 

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
ahaituky apratihatā
yayātmā suprasīdati

That is interesting because the word suprasīdati indicates to be completely self satisfied. Prabhupada further on in the purport he indicates it also means, of course not directly in the verse but next paragraph, he indicates that one can actually find peace, not only peace but find tranquility. Tranquility is a sort of inner peace that can only be experienced in the association of devotees. So therefore when one is convinced that the association of devotees is actually loving Krishna it is not that separately but through the association of devotees we will love Krishna. No, association with devotees means actually loving Krishna. Prabhupada says that, nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema, by hearing and chanting in the association of devotees, he says this is the actual experience of loving Krishna which is kṛṣṇa-prema. So therefore we find that Srila Prabhupada says that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is specifically formed for this purpose of the association of devotees to experience that one is loving Krishna which is that nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema which is that eternal spirit of loving Krishna. So we are very fortunate to be in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. In that way we are fortunate we have Srila Prabhupada as our founder acharya and we are also fortunate to have his sincere and serious followers that can afford us the association by their compassion and mercy to experience love for Krishna. Hare Krishna.

Can I come off the seat now?

Giriraj Swami: No. You should ask if there are any questions.

Question: [Audio cut]

Brhat-Mrdanga dasa: I can be corrected. In my experience for whatever it is worth in the matter of realization the greatest feature of loving Krishna is to love the devotees. Just like we have three features of—-we have Hari, guru, and Vaishnavas, according to Narottama dasa Thakura. They are the most important in our lives, the Supreme Lord, the spiritual master and the devotees. But on the practical level if we please the Supreme Lord and if we please the spiritual master, this is my limited realization. If you please the Supreme Lord and if you please the spiritual master but not please the Vaishnavas, the spiritual master and the Supreme Lord will not be pleased. So I strongly believe that if we please the Vaishnavas then the spiritual master and the Supreme Lord are automatically pleased. That pleasure of pleasing the Vaishnavas is expressing our love for them through serving them which is called devotional service. So loving the Supreme Lord basically means loving the devotees. It is the medium or the same thing in the sense that one can love the Supreme Lord by loving the devotees. That is practical. 

Rose: I have a question. In many years that I have been around I know some that have left the movement and I know the service that they did when they were very active. Now that they have left, are they still counted in Krishna’s service for the service that they did?

Brhat-Mrdanga dasa: Prabhupada answers this question. I will just read one part of a purport from Prabhupada to answer your question. This is from Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter Thirteen entitled “Nature, the Enjoyer and Consciousness.” Now there is a group of verses, Text Eight to Twelve. Amānitvam means humility but part of that first verse it says, ācārya-upāsanam and the translation means approaching the bona fide spiritual master for the particular part I am going to read. In the purport Srila Prabhupada gives more meaning to the word ācārya-upāsanā, acceptance of a bona fide spiritual master. Verses in chapter thirteen in the group of verses, texts eight to twelve and Prabhupada says, “As for acceptance of the spiritual master, that is essential, because without the instruction of a bona fide spiritual master one cannot progress in the spiritual science. One should approach the spiritual master with all humility and offer him all services so that he will be pleased to bestow his blessings upon the disciple.”

So this particular line the devotees that you speak about they have given so much service, offered so much service to Srila Prabhupada and certainly Srila Prabhupada has been pleased and is blessing them. Now I will read further, “Because the bona fide spiritual master is the representative of Krishna if he bestows any blessings upon his disciple that will make the disciple immediately advanced without the disciple’s following the regulative principles. And then he says, “Or the regulative principles will be easier for one who has served the spiritual master without reservation.” Now when I originally read this some years ago I thought there was mistake. So I contacted Ekanatha in the archives and I asked him to look in the microfiche, the preservations of Prabhupada’s work and He said there was no mistake, it is as it is. In other words, if somebody has served the spiritual master unreservedly, the spiritual master is blessing the disciple and I will read that part again. I was quite amazed by it. “Because a bona fide spiritual master is the representative of Krishna if he bestows any blessings upon his disciple that will make the disciple immediately advanced without the disciple’s following the regulative principles.” Or as Prabhupada says, “It becomes easier for one who has served the spiritual master without reservation.” 

Now we find that many disciples of Srila Prabhupada they have served him without any reservation, they gave practically the youth of their lives to Krishna consciousness, gave everything without any consideration, even sometimes for their own family members and for their children without any consideration at all, gave everything in the service of Srila Prabhupada and I have experience with disciples like that and you can see that although I could make another statement in terms of the unlimited mercy of the spiritual master. Although they may forget the spiritual master or may be go away, the spiritual master never forgets them. In other words you may run away from the spiritual master but the spiritual master will still run after you because you purchased the spiritual master with so much of service unreservedly without any motivation, purely you were serving the spiritual master in that sense, although one may be still haunted with material desires, purely one has been serving. Therefore I strongly understand and I believe that Prabhupada he doesn’t forget even the slightest amount of service even doesn’t forget if someone appreciates without even serving. The appreciation is part of serving but not active service like that. So Prabhupada never forgets that or in the line of disciplic succession in his mood the spiritual master never forgets that how a disciple has served unreservedly. Is that ok? Somebody would like to add?

Mayapur dasa: Just wanted to add a few examples that we know from—but a few examples of devotees who were serving Srila Prabhupada, personal servants like Upendra Prabhu, Budhimanta. They left for many years. But at the end somehow or other although they did not have any contact devotees, devotees were able, few months before, they contracted serious diseases and then just month or two before they left their bodies somehow devotees came in touch with them and they left their bodies in the association of devotees in kirtan, in perfect Krishna consciousness. So that is an example or proof of what you are saying that just by serving the spiritual master, he never forgets.

Brhat-Mrdanga dasa: One example is of Budhimanta. He left in Vrindavan, one of the first book distributors, pleased Srila Prabhupada very much. He left for some time but in the end because of his cancer situation somehow came to Vrindavan. Prabhupada also told one disciple that you may leave Krishna after coming in contact with Krishna consciousness but forget it Krishna will not leave you now. You are trapped. So in the same way we could say that we may want to leave Prabhupada but Prabhupada will never leave us, that same mood.

Urvashi Mataji: I have a very personal example of the potency coming in contact with a pure devotee and doing service with my own mother who appreciated the movement, appreciated Srila Prabhupada and made a garland for him once in Los Angeles and then when I was going to India made some Guava jam for me to take to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada wrote her a letter back saying that his mother used to make guava jam for him. So just that little bit of contact and just the example how Prabhupada appreciated every little thing there were thousands of devotees there in India and he took the time to write my mother back for this little? of guava jam but at the time of her death, she had a perfect passing. I may not just pray for one fraction of the blessings she got. You know I was right there. I have been there with her. I have been cooking there for her and offering everything and right there at the time of death. I was right there, pouring water and tulasi. I put earphones over her with Prabhupada chanting Krishna meditation. It is amazing. 

Giriraj Swami: I have a question, not so much because I have anyone here would disagree but there are people with good questions. You said how fortunate we are to be in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, in the association of devotees, in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. But someone could argue and of course there are a lot of presumptions in the argument but someone could argue that Rupa Gosvami also says that one should associate differently with devotees of different degrees of advancement and that one should really surrender oneself to the topmost category of devotee and there is a presumption but –so they say that we don’t find devotees of that level in ISKCON. Therefore it is in keeping with Rupa Gosvami’s teachings they go out of ISKCON—

Brhat-Mrdanga dasa: This question is quite commonly asked to me when I travel also. So I can only give one particular answer from Srila Prabhupada which I will read from Nectar of Instruction.

In Text Five in The Nectar of Instruction, Rupa Gosvami tells us how to associate with different levels of devotees and at the same time Srila Prabhupada gives a for me the most amazing purport to answer this particular question. Srila Prabhupada categorizes different levels of devotees namely the neophyte and intermediate and the advanced, topmost devotee and he makes the point of an uttama-adhikārī, a topmost devotee twice in the same purport. So I will just read it, he says, “Out of many such Vaishnavas, one may be found to be very seriously engaged in the service of the Lord and strictly following all the regulative principles, chanting the prescribed number of rounds on japa beads and always thinking of how to expand the Krishna consciousness movement. Such a Vaishnava should be accepted as an uttama-adhikārī, a highly advanced devotee, and his association should always be sought.”

Now Prabhupada repeats the same thing in the same purport again. I will read. He says, “Everyone begins his devotional life from the neophyte stage, but if one properly finishes chanting the prescribed number of rounds of hari-nāma, he is elevated step by step to the highest platform, uttama-adhikārī. The Krishna consciousness movement prescribes sixteen rounds daily because people in the Western countries cannot concentrate for long periods while chanting on beads. Therefore the minimum number of rounds is prescribed.”

So that again there simply by chanting sixteen rounds and following the four principles one can come to the stage of uttama-adhikārī. Then Prabhupada mentions it the third time complete as the first time. This is the third one now. Prabhupada says, “When a person realizes himself to be an eternal servitor of Krishna, he loses interest in everything but Krishna’s service. Always thinking of Krishna, devising means by which to spread the holy name of Krishna, he understands that his only business is in spreading the Krishna consciousness movement all over the world. Such a person is to be recognized as an uttama-adhikārī, and his association should be immediately accepted according to the six processes (dadāti pratigṛhṇāti, etc.). Indeed, the advanced uttama-adhikārī Vaishnava devotee should be accepted as a spiritual master. Everything one possesses should be offered to him, for it is enjoined that one should deliver whatever he has to the spiritual master. The brahmachari in particular is supposed to beg alms from others and offer them to the spiritual master. However, one should not imitate the behavior of an advanced devotee or mahā-bhāgavata without being self-realized, for by such imitation one will eventually become degraded.”

Prabhupada also uses the word ‘mahā-bhāgavata’ in the same paragraph. Then in the end Srila Prabhupada expresses some other situation also. I will just read that part. He says that, “Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikārī Vaishnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaishnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī. A neophyte Vaishnava or a Vaishnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.”

 Now when I explained this Prabhupada’s definition of uttama-adhikārī on a practical level in ISKCON basically it means few things, one is that he strictly follows the four principles, chanting minimum sixteen rounds and he is always thinking how to spread the Krishna consciousness movement which means a preacher. That means all his time is spent on that, full time. That means an uttama-adhikārī. I know of many devotees who are on that level in our movement whom I associate with for my own purification who are doing it constantly. 

So when I said this at one particular place I remember many years ago in Alachua when I visited there for few days. Somebody from the audience said, “How can you say that?” I said “Prabhupada is saying that. Then he quoted some verses from some scripture. I said but we accept Srila Prabhupada’s definition of uttama-adhikārī and then later on he joined the Gaudiya Matha, the one who questioned me. In other words, we accept Prabhupada’s definitive practical definition of uttama-adhikārī in the sense of being the member of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. That we have to accept that and Prabhupada says given this definition we can safely conclude that there may be many uttama-adhikārīs in our movement and you can only know them by associating with them. You will know them in a day to day, moment to moment; you know this person is an uttama-adhikārī only by association and by service and by hearing from them. Of course a person from outside the Krishna consciousness movement especially ISKCON may differ from Srila Prabhupada. that we cannot accept. We don’t have to hear from them if they differ in his definition of uttama-adhikārī given here. And personally I don’t really sort of entertain it because it is waste of time in getting to arguments. I say I am in ISKCON and I accept this. I am trying to continue to stay in ISKCON by accepting Prabhupada’s definition of uttama-adhikārī. Prabhupada says something very heavy also in the next verse about the pure devotee. I can read it. Indirectly he is speaking about himself and his godbrothers in the Gaudiya Matha, indirectly. He says that this is text six the last paragraph, “When one thus criticizes a pure devotee, he commits an offense (vaiṣṇava-aparādha) that is very obstructive and dangerous for those who desire to advance in Krishna consciousness. A person cannot derive any spiritual benefit when he offends the lotus feet of a Vaishnava. Everyone should therefore be very careful not to be jealous of an empowered Vaishnava, or a śuddha-vaiṣṇava. It is also an offense to consider an empowered Vaishnava an object of disciplinary action. It is offensive to try to give him advice or to correct him. One can distinguish between a neophyte Vaishnava and an advanced Vaishnava by their activities. The advanced Vaishnava is always situated as the spiritual master, and the neophyte is always considered his disciple. The spiritual master must not be subjected to the advice of a disciple, nor should a spiritual master be obliged to take instructions from those who are not his disciples. This is the sum and substance of Srila Rupa Gosvami’s advice in the sixth verse.”

So now Prabhupada is firm about this. “Everyone should therefore be very careful not to be jealous of an empowered Vaishnava, or a śuddha-vaiṣṇava. It is also an offense to consider an empowered Vaishnava an object of disciplinary action. It is offensive to try to give him advice or to correct him. One can distinguish between a neophyte Vaishnava and an advanced Vaishnava by their activities. The advanced Vaishnava is always situated as the spiritual master, and the neophyte is always considered his disciple. The spiritual master must not be subjected to the advice of a disciple, nor should a spiritual master be obliged to take instructions from those who are not his disciples. This is the sum and substance of Srila Rupa Gosvami’s advice in the sixth verse.”

So here it is indictable Prabhupada’s association with those who are envious of him from outside of ISKCON, he is very clear about that and not only that we find that those who are seriously and sincerely following Srila Prabhupada they are becoming empowered by Prabhupada himself. Just to give you one example, like His Holiness Indradyumna Swami Maharaja. If you see the results of his preaching in Poland and other places, he is suddenly empowered, such an empowered person. I am just giving one example but so many wonderful examples of being empowered, to be on the uttamā platform by Srila Prabhupada, by a mahā-bhāgavata uttama-adhikārī in the Krishna consciousness movement.

Giriraj Swami: I think you can get down now. Excuse me for my offense.

[Laughter]

My association with Mayapur goes back to Bombay—- He has been Maharaja’s main servant and he had a lot of association with Maharaja up until the end and until so we also want him to share with us whatever experience and realizations he has.

Mayapur dasa: So this morning Maharaja requested me to speak about something I didn’t know exactly should continue from the same topic by Brhat Mrdanga Prabhu whatever you feel is appropriate whatever you feel in the heart. My name is Mayapur dasa. I come from Croatia and I joined in ‘93. I started associating with devotees in 1993 and in 1995 I joined full time in the temple. In 1995 I met many advanced Vaishnavas in the zone, in Europe, Harikesh Prabhu, Krishna ksetra Prabhu, Sacinandana Swami and I was looking for a guru. The main thing that inspired me to come to Krishna consciousness was Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada’s life, his biography, his example mostly. I saw videos, I read books about him. Of course I read Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam, but his example was something I was looking for in my life because in my environment what I saw was people were talking one thing and not practicing it in terms of religion and their duties. So here I could see that it is possible to follow the highest standard of love of God and following whatever God ask us to do. So in 1995 I started praying to Srila Prabhupada that, “Please help me to connect to your paramparā to your teachings. I want to become a follower of your follower who is your representative, bona fide spiritual master, your bona fide representative. There are different spiritual master and we find different qualities that attract us to surrender ourselves to them but I didn’t really feel the inspiration to surrender fully although they were all inspiring all of the spiritual master who were preaching with all their endeavor, very scholarly, they were pure devotees, there is no doubt and they are pure devotees. So whatever happens even as we were talking now we read in that zone he is now a little bit aside from ISKCON still he is great contribution to Srila Prabhupada’s mission is there.

So in 1995 summer there was summer camp, I read the program the seminars that were given here new name there I don’t know who it was. Very few devotees knew who he was. It was His Holiness Śrīdhara Swami and the seminar was “Seven Habits of Highly Effective Vaishnavas” So when I came to the camp all the devotees that were to give the seminars they already arrived the seminars were already going on. The second day the car came and I felt inspired just occurred for the first time I bowed down fully. It was strange for me just like I was talking to Srila Giriraj Maharaja a few days ago about the situation in India how Sonia Gandhi, she didn’t want to accept the post of Prime Minister because he says I always listen to my voice from inside and this time the voice is telling me not to become Prime Minister. So for me it was something very unusual. I bowed down fully, that moment Śrīdhara Swami came out of the car. So it was very interesting, strange experience for me. I didn’t understand. So we met in the camp seminar and what attracted me the most was his attachment to Srila Prabhupada. Whatever he would say was quote or give example from Srila Prabhupada’s life from his teachings and his extreme honesty about himself. There was no pretense or there is a very funny way of saying this. He was extremely honest about his devotional life, he was very simple, whatever he would think he would say. There was no duplicity. Sometimes it was for someone who could not take it but for me it was extreme openness and I could see this person could not. He was not a cheater. Whatever he practiced that was the way he practiced. He was honest about it.

There I had first darshan of him and so I just asked him about some basic spiritual instructions in my life what I should follow, what I should do. So he instructed me to even at that time in Croatia although saṅkīrtana was going on sadhana was not the main stress in the temple. Saṅkīrtana was stressed. He just stressed sadhana. For me it was most important new devotee to follow sadhana in the temple although others may not be follow more or less but for me it was very important. So I started following the instructions, more attached to him. I wrote him a letter at that time that I wanted to go to India. I was working in the Agel at that time as a courier I would give half of the money to the temple and half of it I would save to go to India because I thought, let me go to India. Prabhupada wrote so much about India. These teachings are coming from India so let me see how this process is practiced at its roots, at its source, where it is coming from. I wanted to see. I wanted to get inspiration for the rest of my life. I said if I go now and I don’t like it. I will carry those impressions from India and being inspired. So he answered to me, you know I don’t want to interfere with local management but it will be good for you and at that time someone was calling me to join the saṅkīrtana party, Bhakti Vikas Swami’s saṅkīrtana party in Gujarat in bus, going from city to city, from village to village, distributing books, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. So he answered it will be good for you to come to India in the association of Bhakti Vikash Swami and other devotees, distribute books. So I decided I will go. I talked to my authorities. It was interesting experience. I won’t go into that now but ultimately I was going with a few devotees who were collecting for their tickets to India. I already collected ticket so I was just–we were in Rome, in Italy. It was the biggest adventure in my life we have the car and we would sleep in the beach at night, wake up, whatever we would collect from saṅkīrtana, we would go buy some food we would meet some people they would invite us to come and sleep in their place. We would cook for them, for us, we would preach and it was for me as a new devotee it was a real experience how Krishna really takes care if you sincerely try to preach representing Italy is very nice, very interesting country where I went out distributing incense every day in Vaishnava cloth.

There was no single bad experience of people saying bad word in any way being disturbed by it. When we collected the money, somehow one devotee decided to stay and I was to go alone. One devotee left before, one devotee decided to stay. I was to go alone to India. Now I was like I was going to India how is it going to work. India is a wild country I read so much about I saw documentaries and I come there how I come to Vrindavan I was supposed to meet devotees in Vrindavan and my flight was to Delhi, so I was in big anxiety. When I came to the airport. Ok I was going to the airplane, all the time I was in this anxiety, what is going to happen. I got a seat just near a nun. There was a nun sitting there. So, ok, so I thought, Okay, this is a sign of Krishna, sign of God. This is a spiritual Mataji. She is going, so must be a sign of God. Ok Krishna is taking care and I just chanting, slowing the time was coming may be five minutes before closing the flight but the seat near me was empty. So here it was a devotee coming and sitting next to me. It was a Prabhupada disciple, Sukta Vigraha Prabhu. So he said, “Oh Hare Krishna. I am going to Vrindavan. There I was, “Ok this must be working.” Anyway I came to Vrindavan, I didn’t expect to see Śrīdhara Swami at that time because there was no plan as such. I didn’t know where he was. Last time he wrote to me was the previous letter that he wrote to me that it would be good, so I was going there. Maybe two days before we were to go at the end of Kartika to our service in Gujarat. Two days before a devotee came to my room. He said, “Ok you have to promise me to take of me in my spiritual life. Your spiritual master has come and you should go and see him. At that time I didn’t ask him to accept me as a disciple or anything but I felt that he is my spiritual master. He is my link to Srila Prabhupada, my link to paramparā. So I just went to him and met him. He was very happy that I came. At that time he gave me some cloth to wash.

The next day I asked him if he would accept me as his disciple and again he said, “Well there are so many people here.” There are many more devotees that are more qualified than I am. I am very simple devotee. I do not what you expect. You should think about it and if you really want I will accept you as my disciple. I took it that he accepted me. Then I went to my service in Gujarat and then somewhere in January I remember actually the date, the tenth of January I got a phone in Ahmedabad, a phone call and he was calling me to come to Bombay. And actually that morning I had a dream that I am in some an airport and just waiting for someone coming in a small blue car, maruti car to the airport and waiting for someone to come at the airport and then after I woke up that morning I got words that he was calling me to come to Bombay. So I came to Bombay. He as coming from London. I came in the same blue car. It was the same everything. From that dream it was exactly as it was and then he came at that time he had Vikram. I don’t know if you remember. He was a gurukuli from Vrindavan gurukula. He is in LA right? So Vikram, I think he wanted to join some other service, so Guru Maharaja asked me if I want to stay and serve him. At that time I stayed. So that is how I met him, first how I came to this service and what I remember that first impression when I met him from Croatia and his seminar that he was very jolly person, very humorous, but at the same time very serious and very dedicated to Srila Prabhupada’s mission. His humor was in function. It was not just humor because of humor. It had a function to enliven devotees and to present sometimes very heavy points in very nice packing, in very nice package. So that was his style of preaching.

Then in 1996 I had great, anyway I will just tell you whatever—like before I became devotee I was into astrology. So an astrologer lady told me that in 1990. She said, “Oh you will go in some spiritual movement and in 1996 you will receive a very great benediction, something like that. So in 1996 I was lucky to receive initiation and Srila Giriraj Maharaja was there too to bless me also but it was Vyasa-puja of Guru Maharaja. I was lucky also I received initiation also alone. I still feel very unqualified and humble. There were four or five Srila Prabhupada’s disciples. He always stressed that I should always take blessings from all of his godbrothers, just the same as I would ask blessings from him. He would always ask me you should always as much as you should honor me you should honor my godbrothers. I remember specifically in Mayapur when I came with a garland and he was with some grihastha godbrother. As I was approaching him, he saw I wanted to give him a garland. You have two garlands. I said no. He said go away and then later he explained to me. He said whenever I am with my godbrothers, if you want to give me garlands there should be garlands for them as well. He always wanted his godbrothers honored the same way honor him. Anyway just to continue from the point of Brhad Mrdanga Prabhu form the last point that you were talking about if we follow Srila Prabhupada we are getting Krishna’s mercy only through Srila Prabhupada. So he was always. There was not a day or hour when he was not thinking of pleasing Srila Prabhupada and one of the last days actually his former lady disciples, Maharaja knows her, Kunti knows her. She took re-initiation from an elderly sannyasi from another institution but that is not what she wanted to come and see him. She is very sincere Mataji, very sincere lady but somewhat I would say troubled. She would never be happy. She would always have some problems and that was how she left also. She started to criticize Guru Maharaja and she left and later she took re-initiation from another institution.

So she wanted to come and see him and she wanted to serve him because she knew that he is leaving the planet very soon. She heard from devotees and I was kind of against it because I didn’t want any disturbance in his last days. I knew her very well from her association in Bombay. So what happened was the problem started happening in two three days and finally Maharaja invited her to talk to her and told her finally that she should just do humble service. If she wants to serve him, she should do humble service, not try to interfere with other devotees, not try to preach anything else to other devotees, not trying to start any controversy amongst other devotees but unfortunately she could not control herself and devotees started complaining. She basically she tried to preach philosophy or she tried to canvass devotees for her guru now and he invited and he told her that I think it is the best for you to—I gave you the chance, I thought that you came here with a sincere desire to serve me but I see it is not like that. I think it would be good if you would may be leave for your country now. If you still want to serve me, you can serve me from a distance. It is good. It is not going to cause any trouble and then this Mataji she asked please I have come here to deliver a blessing from a sadhu, from my spiritual master please you should accept it because when I was coming here he asked me, why are you going there, he is against me and I told him, “No, no, no he is not against you and he said ok if he is not against me then tell him that I sent my blessings. So she said please accept his blessings now and he said, “Yasoda I really appreciate it but all the blessings I need I got from Srila Prabhupada. I really don’t require.” I mean everything I know in my life, everything I have is Srila Prabhupada. He is a sadhu, a pure devotee, but he is not Srila Prabhupada and then she just went wild. She said, “Are you afraid of him,” and that made him upset. He said, “Afraid of him? I am afraid of him as much as I am afraid of George Bush.” [Laughter] I know George Bush, he is there. I know what he is doing and I know he exist but I don’t have any connections to him, I don’t hate him, I don’t love but he is there. Srila Prabhupada is everything that I know that I really need in my spiritual life and it is really—He said, “That is all I need in spiritual life. I think you really just go.”

It was a trick. If he would say, “I accept.” Then she would go to all the disciples and she would say, “Oh your spiritual master before he left he accepted the blessings of the sadhu, you should also accept.” Guru Maharaja was smart. He knew what was going on. So his chastity and integrity that was all the quality that attracted me. That was inspiring to see throughout his spiritual life. Then his attachment to his godbrother. I remember when in 1999 Srila Giriraj Maharaja an Srila Śrīdhara Swami went for Govardhana-parikramā. That was most ecstatic Govardhana-parikramā I have ever been. I don’t know if there will ever be one like that. But after that Guru Maharaja would also say that, “Right after that Giriraj Maharaja went to a hospital for heart surgery and he went in coma, in Bombay, in Bhaktivedanta Hospital. [Laughter] that was the very ecstatic time because after that so many of his godbrothers came to see him and spend time with him and have kirtans. At that time I could also see how much he values their association, how much he loves them, and how much attachment he has for his godbrothers. That was also a great blessing to serve all the Vaishnavas and that was his great blessings that his greatest blessing was that he gave us the association of all his godbrothers, his disciples. He would always stress that before he left a month he called me. He told me just like Tamal Krishna Maharaja’s disciples, if you meet any of Tamal Krishna Maharaja’s disciples,  he is well trained. He is very together because Tamal Krisna Maharaja would take care personally to train them very strictly but then all of them were very well trained. Each and every disciple you will approach you will recognize that this is Tamal Krishna Maharaja’s. So he said, “I want my disciples to be known as humble and gentle servants of the Vaishnavas.” So he always stressed these points and he said, “I want my disciples to stay in Prabhupada’s family and serve all my godbrothers, just like you serve me. If you serve my godbrothers I will be happy, I will be pleased.

There is no doubt what he wanted us to do and then his last days in Mayapur, Sarvatma Prabhu was there for a few days. There is a sloka that Prabhupada used to quote murte jānle haya, that is, whatever, sadhana or bhajana, you do during your life it will be tested at the time of death. So I could see that whatever he gave to Srila Prabhupada, Srila Prabhupada’s institution. A devotee what I remember is that he was very easily approachable by any devotee, doesn’t matter whether he is a low rank, or high rank devotee, he would be very easy to approach and give spiritual advice or even give his friendship that will make that devotee attached to Srila Prabhupada. So it was very emotional time for him when he arrived in Mayapur. When he saw that arrival that his godbriothers made for him. He told me as we were coming, because Bhakti Caru Swami he was calling every twenty minutes on the mobile we had and Bhakti Caru Swami Maharaja would ask me, “So where are you now?” So after three times, Guru Maharaja understood what was going on and what was happening. He was almost crying, he said, “I just want to skip somewhere on the side. I don’t want any big reception.” But he was very happy when he came. Each and every godbrother came to his window. I thought that when he came from Vancouver he was not going to stay with us very long because he was very exhausted. He was all pale. He went twice to emergency for his fluid to be taken out the stomach and second time they did it, they poked some other organ. So there was some internal bleeding also. His belly was purple because there was bleeding. So I really didn’t know. I didn’t want to think that he was going because it was not certain how much he is going to stay but he wanted to stay for the installation of Pancha-Tattva that was for sure because his godbrothers.

Also they decided that he will be among the few GBCs that will take part in the installation. There I could see the most wonderful exchanges between him and his godbrothers and most enlivening part of the day, in the evening when Hari Sauri Prabhu would come and read from Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta. He will pay attention, remember, comment about whatever was happening. That was the upcoming issue. There were many things from India that he would read and so the days passed and the installation of Pancha-tattva was really wonderful, gorgeous, the biggest festival I have ever seen. I don’t know if it will ever happen something like that, probably when the big temple would open but it was really wonderful. There is a CD that Maharaja has that you can see programs. Although he was very weak, the whole day he would spend in bed and he would sit maybe for his lunch or maybe go outside to chant in the morning or to take bath in Ganga. But he was ready for the installation, for the Abhisheks. It was incredible to see, always incredible to witness his will power. Whatever he wanted to do he would just overcome his bodily needs and bodily pain. He would never speak about how much it hurts him or if there is any pain. He would not talk much and he would be very serious to pain his body. That morning he just stood up and went for abhiseka and he as there for one hour. Many devotees were telling that they were very inspired when they saw him. Each of those kalasas, they were full silver kalasas. They were probably five to six kilos, plus the liquid that was inside and he would just lift it up and that was one hour, one and a half hour. For me it was very touching experience to see him when he came there. He was behind Lord Nityananda. When they asked him where did he want to be. Maybe he wanted to bathe everyone. He said, “No I want to bathe Lord Nityananda. I want to do the abhiseka of Lord Nityananda.”

So he was crying ten minutes. He was behind and touched the body of Lord Nityananda. He was crying. I never saw him. Really he was very openhearted, great hearted, very compassionate person. He would emphasize with everyone, whatever they would feel like they would suffer but I never saw him crying very much except sometimes he would talk of Prabhupada. At that time I could feel that he was feeling he was going to go. In the last days he was feeling so much gratefulness and just for being there and for receiving the mercy of all the Vaishnavas and of Srila Prabhupada. He became very open. He would hide his emotions. He wouldn’t cover anything anymore. Those moments were really something for me to treasure, to see as example as a Vaishnava when he really departed from this world what is his mood, what is his consciousness. His biggest feat was that he won’t be able to because 95 percent of people with his disease, they go into coma and then he was in fear that he said, “I don’t really want to go into coma. He wanted to go in clear consciousness. Krishna fulfilled all his desires. He wanted to come to see the installation. He wanted to stay until Gaura-Purnima and someone actually approached him. He said, “So Maharaja, you are leaving maybe Gaura-Purnima would be I don’t want to make this Śrīdhara Swami’s festival. It is not Śrīdhara Swami’s festival, it is Gaura-Purnima festival.

Actually it showed that he actually wanted to leave when not many devotees were there. He didn’t want to make his whatever. He felt very humbled. There was so much attention on him and the next auspicious day he left was Krishna just took him. In the evening he was very much in pain and as doctors were always observing his situation. They would prescribe certain pain killers and he had certain pain killers that was very heavy, like morphine, but doctors were afraid that if he takes that he could go in a coma, so they gave him some not so strong ones. He said the pain was not going away. The pain was all over his body. Then later after a few hours they prescribed the other one which was heavier. It didn’t take any pain away.

Finally they gave the heaviest. He was still in complete clear consciousness but he said I guess it is time to go. He was not. I came to ask him. He actually called me. He said, “Mayapur now it is time for kirtan. I want kirtan more than ever, like 2:00, 3:30. He passed away at 6.10. I asked him, “So Guru Maharaja, how are you feeling?” He said, “Never felt better in my life.” He was so exhausted. He was so much in pain but he always kept his humor till the last breath. He will always joke that, “When I will pass away the last joke will be on me. I am going to go away laughing.” So we had kirtan from that time on and around six o’clock, then he wanted to go to the bathroom. After he came from bathroom, he couldn’t walk anymore, his body collapsed but his consciousness was still there. He didn’t fall, we caught him and took him out of the bathroom and by his hand he touched the door. He said, “Stop, you are going to break my hand.” So we could see that his consciousness was completely clear and everything was completely aware what has happened but he was so exhausted from not sleeping all night, being in pain all night. That was maybe ten to fifteen minutes before he left. The kirtan was going on from four o’clock till he left and then when the situation became critical the doctor said he is leaving. We put a large Srila Prabhupada’s photo in front of him and he was looking just at Prabhupada’s photo all the time. Before that maybe Pankaj Anya Prabhu came, maybe half an hour before. He brought Nṛsiṁhadeva’s tulasi from his lotus feet and he would be giving him ganga water. He was sipping that for the last two hours and we were having kirtan. Around 6:10 in the morning, looking at Srila Prabhupada’s photo he left.

So I could see that was something that any Vaishnava would desire to leave in such a way. It was perfect. His consciousness was perfectly clear. It was fully Krishna conscious, Prabhupada conscious as he as all his life. So wherever he is gone he is with his spiritual master again. There are so many things we wanted to speak but we have little time. So I will stop here and if there are any question or comments or anything.

Question: [Unintelligible]

Mayapur dasa: You mean for his disciples. For his disciples he mentioned few devotees that was a few years ago. He gave specific persons that his disciples can take shelter of. So he mentioned first, Srila Giriraj Swami, Indradyumna Maharaja, Bhakti vaibhava Swami, three of them he mentioned. 

Sarvatma: I was traveling in a place that look a lot like old England, maybe South America. I was with Śrīdhara Swami and Brahma Tirtha Prabhu and we traveled for a while, changing trains. I don’t know exactly what Śrīdhara Swami was actually to depart. He was actually this was his last days. Then we went to a town. Basically we wanted to take rest because we were very tired from the trip. So we wanted to arrange for an expensive hotel. Then he continued to and then Śrīdhara Swami was very jolly all the time, cracking jokes. Śrīdhara Swami very funny and Krishna conscious. Finally he decided that he was going to leave his body at Brahma Tirtha’s house. So we arrived at Brahma Tirtha’s house and Brahmatirtha set up a large bed for him and he was just sitting up in bed and aging. He was always as he said, “Be yourself and give your contribution to the movement.” At least that was his mood what he wanted for everybody to see that this is not a counterfeit Śrīdhara Swami this is the real Śrīdhara Swami as he has always been. Then I woke up and it was nice to see him at the airport. 

Mayapur dasa: Thank you. I remember when you told us about your dream he actually loved it, carrying him in samadhi. He was smiling while being carried to the samadhi. One other girl the next day I don’t know what the mataji’s name, she said that her daughter had a dream that Maharaja was in samadhi. She was standing in front of him and he opened his eyes and smiled, typical like a joke [Laughter] He was always like. I don’t know when you were talking to me I just felt inspired to tell one particular pastime.

When we were in Brazil with this healer, we went to Brazil and there is one healer there that works in subtle entities, subtle energies. So we went there a few times and it seemed that it helped him at that time but last few times he went he said, “There is nothing significant.” And it seems that this person was becoming so popular that it went into his head a little bit. It seems that he is losing his power a little bit every time we would go there. He would really like devotees and he would always call Maharaja to give a speech, a five-minute speech in front of everyone. Then he would hold his helpers. He was supposedly working with some entities. The entities would take over his body and then they would work. Those entities who were working were former surgeons but the difference was that right now you don’t need to bring x-ray in front of him to see what is happening. Because he could see the subtle body he could see what is wrong with a certain part pf your body and he would operate but at one moment there was a whole scene there. He had his helpers, volunteers, that would come there and they would all ring their subtle beings, subtle things happening and other people would not know what was happening. It would be a little bit like a show, like something special, but you don’t know what is special or what was happening. Everyone would be speculating what actually was happening.

So in order to be treated by this person they would go in line and everyone would have darshan he would say, “Ok you come for operation tomorrow or you take this medicine.” So one of those days guru Maharaja went in front of him and he said, “Please stay here,” and then he called all his helpers. We were few times for few months and I had never seen this happening. He would sometimes call someone and they would all gather and hold their hands. I don’t know be like medium session. So they would call everyone there and then Guru Maharaja would see what is happening and then he took this, it was like a towel. So he took a rose. There was a vase with roses. He took a rose and put it in his hand and he took towel put it around his hand and then he brought all his helpers to listen what he is talking to him. He said this ritual is 1800 years old. Do you remember what it is? Then Guru Maharaja was looking and everyone was like pin drop silence; they were just waiting. sorry I don’t remember. Can you tell us what you were in your past life? Guru Maharaja said, “I was a worm in stool [Laughter] The biggest joke was that these translators because they are protégés stool? What is stool? He was just dead serious. This person who was like the healer he said a little later he went and he apologized. He said, “I am sorry but I really don’t remember what I was in my past life. I really don’t but I am sorry that I am not into your mood because I am simply just servant of my spiritual master.” He said, “It is okay. I know it is okay.”

The whole scene was like everyone was—I was worm in stool. [Laughter] So he would always, in the most intense situation he would crack up jokes and he would always tell his disciples you should always don’t take yourself so seriously, don’t take yourself so seriously, laugh in life, relax. What you are doing is not serious. Krishna has the best sense of humor and joke is in us. He would often say when some funny situation would happen. He would say Krishna has such a sense of humor, especially when some reverse would happen with his health he would say, “Krishna must be laughing now.” His famous words would be, “There is no utility in negativity.” He would say that to every disciple. When someone would come with horrible problem or anything, he would paraphrase Srila Prabhupada, “Chant Hare Krishna and be happy,” and he would say, “Chant Hare Krishna and have no worries and just be happy. Relax, nothing is as serious as you think it is.” Does not mean he did not take the process seriously. He was serious at the same time. He was a jolly person.

Thank you for listening.

Devotees: Haribol.