SB 5.1.3 – Priyavrata’s Dilemma

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya,

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya,

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Five, Chapter One, “The Activities of Mahārāja Priyavrata,”

TEXT 3

mahatāṁ khalu viprarṣe
uttamaśloka-pādayoḥ
chāyā-nirvṛta-cittānāṁ
na kuṭumbe spṛhā-matiḥ

TRANSLATION

Elevated mahātmās who have taken shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are fully satiated by the shade of those lotus feet. Their consciousness cannot possibly become attached to family members.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, nitāi pada-kamala, koṭī-candra suśītala, ye chāyāya jagat juḍāya. He describes the shade of the lotus feet of Lord Nityānanda as being so nice and cooling that all materialists, who are always in the blazing fire of material activities, may come under the shade of His lotus feet and be fully relieved and satiated. The distinction between family life and spiritual life can be experienced by any person who has undergone the tribulations of living with a family. One who comes under the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord never becomes attracted by the activities of family life. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā (2.59), paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate: one gives up lower engagements when he experiences a higher taste. Thus one becomes detached from family life as soon as he comes under the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord.

COMMENT

So here, Maharaja Parīkṣit more or less reiterate the same question that he has asked in the previous two verses: How can an elevated devotee become attached to a material family life, because the two do not go together? In the purport, Srila Prabhupada encourages us, who may already be in a family life, that if we want to be relieved of the blazing fire of material existence in the material world, we should take shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda, the lotus feet of the Lord. So, the previous verse and purport emphasized the fact that the devotee who is experiencing the higher taste of Krishna consciousness cannot become attached to the materialistic life of family attachment. And here, the question in the verse is more or less the same. But in the purport, Srila Prabhupada starts from the other position of us who are suffering in the material world, come to get relief from the material pain by taking shelter under the shade of the lotus feet of the Lord, especially all merciful Lord Nityananda. But it is more or less the same question that we discussed yesterday, and we will proceed now to the next verse.

TEXT 4

saṁśayo ‘yaṁ mahān brahman
dārāgāra-sutādiṣu
saktasya yat siddhir abhūt
kṛṣṇe ca matir acyutā

TRANSLATION

The King continued: O great brāhmaṇa, this is my great doubt. How was it possible for a person like King Priyavrata, who was so attached to wife, children and home, to achieve the topmost infallible perfection in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

King Parīkṣit wondered how a person so attached to wife, children and home could become so perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Prahlāda Mahārāja has said:

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
mitho ‘bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām

A gṛhavrata, one who has taken a vow to execute family duties, has no chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is because most gṛhavratas are guided by sense gratification and therefore gradually glide down to the darkest regions of material existence (adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram). How can they possibly become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Mahārāja Parīkṣit asked Śukadeva Gosvāmī to resolve this great doubt.

COMMENT

So here, the question is posed from the other side because King Parīkṣit had heard that Maharaja Priyavrata was a great devotee, but then he had become involved in family life. Then again, he had heard that at the end, Maharaja Priyavrata had become a great devotee. So the first question was, how can someone who is a great devotee become involved with family life? And the question here is, how can someone deeply entangled in family life become a great devotee? So both situations are difficult to reconcile because being a great devotee doesn’t mix with material attachment. And therefore, for a great devotee to become involved in family life doesn’t fit. And then again, for someone entangled in family life to become a great devotee also doesn’t fit. So Maharaja Parīkṣit was asking the same question from both sides. And here, the question is, how can someone who is attached to family life become a great devotee? And the answer is, they can’t. And the reference here is from Prahlada Maharaja’s discussion with his father which I happened to quote on Tuesday in connection with Sri Rama-ekādaśī in the concluding words from Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Matir na kṛṣṇe parato svato vā. Hiraṇyakaśipu had asked his son Prahlada what was the best thing that he had learned in school. That Hiraṇyakaśipu, who was a great materialist, he had arranged for a materialistic education for Prahlada. Prahlada was just a young boy of five years, and his father was naturally affectionate to him, and he thought this little child would give some cute answers, like we would like to ask children and questions. [Unintelligible 00:10:30] so he asked, “What subjects do you like in school?” So he asked, “What is the best thing you learned in school?” And Prahlada replied that what he learned was to become Krishna conscious. Now, that really upset Hiraṇyakaśipu. That Hiraṇyakaśipu became furious, the first time he heard the answer, he called for two teachers and accused them of being responsible for Prahlada’s mind becoming polluted with devotion to Vishnu, who Hiraṇyakaśipu considered Him his enemy because Lord Vishnu, in the form of Varaha killed Hiraṇyakaśipu’s brother, Hiraṇyakṣa.

But the teachers said that, “You are wrongly accusing us. We have not taught him Krishna consciousness, nor have we allowed devotees in disguise to infiltrate the campus. You should not accuse us.” So then Hiraṇyakaśipu said, “Well, then how did he become Krishna conscious?” And the teachers said, “Well, you should ask him. We don’t know. He seems to be naturally Krishna conscious.” So then Hiraṇyakaśipu asked Prahlada, and Prahlada replied with these very beautiful verses, one of which begins with the two lines that Srila Prabhupada quotes in purport. Matir na kṛṣṇe, matir means inclination, so inclination towards Krishna or Krishna consciousness cannot arise by parataḥ, by the efforts of others, svato, by one’s own efforts, or by the combined efforts of oneself and others. Especially, for gṛha-vrata, people have vowed that their goal in life is to maintain the family members and enjoy family life.

So, when Prahlada answered his father that you cannot become Krishna conscious by your own efforts or efforts of the others, or by combined efforts of oneself with other. It again seems like a paradox. It was another great mystery because it seems logical that all the possible ways that one can become Krishna conscious has been rejected and then Prahlada recites the verse, mahīyasāṁ pāda-rajo-’bhiṣekaṁ, that one can become conscious only when one accepts the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee who is completely free from material contamination. And not to give away the story, but that precisely is the same answer that resolves the mysterious situation here, that how could someone who is entangled in family life become such a great devotee? And as we will read later, it was by the same process of taking shelter of the spiritual master. And Priyavrata’s spiritual master was the same as Prahlada, Narada Muni. And that is the process by which an entangled householder or an ordinary person, born in a materialistic family, can be delivered. And almost every one of us sitting here has had the same experience that we began as ordinary people. We had the same attachments as ordinary people; we engaged in the same sinful activities as ordinary people. So how did we come to this position? By the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, by the mercy of the servants of Srila Prabhupada. Otherwise, there is no other explanation.

I mean, we read in Bhagavad-gītā, that those who have acted piously in the present life and past life, who are completely freed from sinful actions and reactions, can take to devotional service. But if we look at our lives, more or less, none of us can say that we acted piously and that we were freed from sinful actions and reactions, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. Then how could we come to Krishna consciousness? It is by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada. This is the only explanation. Sometimes we read in the scriptures that fortunate souls come to Krishna consciousness. But again, if we look at our lives, in most cases, our lives before we came to Krishna consciousness were not very fortunate. So how could we come to Krishna consciousness? And in reply to that question, Srila Prabhupada said, “I have created your good fortune. You didn’t have the assets and pious activities performed.” But the mercy of Srila Prabhupada created a situation by which we immediately became pious just by his association of service, we immediately became free from sinful reactions by the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. And we were able to engage in devotional service. Therefore, we are sitting here today. So, this is the basic question. How could it be? How could the two go together in the same person? And now we will begin the answer. Very, very important verses and purports. Text Five. [Unintelligible 00:19:10]

TEXT 5

śrī-śuka uvāca
bāḍham uktaṁ bhagavata uttamaślokasya śrīmac-caraṇāravinda-makaranda-rasa āveśita-cetaso bhāgavata-paramahaṁsa-dayita-kathāṁ kiñcid antarāya-vihatāṁ svāṁ śivatamāṁ padavīṁ na prāyeṇa hinvanti.

TRANSLATION

Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: What you have said is correct. The glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is praised in eloquent, transcendental verses by such exalted personalities as Brahmā, are very pleasing to great devotees and liberated persons. One who is attached to the nectarean honey of the Lord’s lotus feet, and whose mind is always absorbed in His glories, may sometimes be checked by some impediment, but he still never gives up the exalted position he has acquired.

COMMENT

So, this is a very relevant question because we see that devotees who were apparently advanced in Krishna consciousness sometimes stumble along the way. And sometimes they appear to fall on the path. So, how is it possible? This is the essence of the question. And an important question for all of us because even if we don’t stumble or fall in an obvious way or in a gross way, we all experience within our struggles to advance in Krishna consciousness that sometimes we seem to be doing better and other times not so well. And in subtle ways, we are always sort of falling down. [Unintelligible 00:21:45] So why? Why do we fall down sometimes? And what is actually happening there? How do we pick ourselves up?

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī accepted both of the King’s propositions — that a person who is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot embrace materialistic life again and that one who has embraced materialistic life cannot take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness at any stage of his existence. Although accepting both these statements, Śukadeva Gosvāmī qualified them by saying that a person who has once absorbed his mind in the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead may sometimes be influenced by impediments but he still does not give up his exalted devotional position.

According to Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, there are two kinds of impediments to devotional service. The first is an offense at the lotus feet of a Vaiṣṇava. This is called vaiṣṇava-aparādha. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu warned His devotees not to commit vaiṣṇava-aparādha, which He described as the mad elephant offense. When a mad elephant enters a beautiful garden, it destroys everything, leaving a barren field. Similarly, the power of vaiṣṇava-aparādha is so great that even an advanced devotee becomes almost devoid of his spiritual assets if he commits it. Since Kṛṣṇa consciousness is eternal, it cannot be destroyed altogether, but advancement may be checked for the time being. Thus vaiṣṇava-aparādha is one kind of impediment to devotional service.

COMMENT

So, it is a long purport, and I suppose I will have to postpone my departure for Houston for a few hours so that we can continue the discussion tomorrow. So vaiṣṇava-aparādha, there is so many verses of the scriptures about the horrible effects of vaiṣṇava-aparādha. There is the case of King Bharata, who also was very advanced in devotional services. It is said that he had attained the stage of bhāva-bhakti, at the liberated stage. But still, he became attached to a deer. And at the time of death, he thought of the deer. And in the next life, he took birth as a deer. But although he took birth in the body of the deer, he retained the consciousness of the human being. And not just an ordinary human being but he retain the consciousness of his previous life. So, he should consider what happened in the past and what to do in the future.

And so even in the body of the deer, he would seek out the sages and listen to their talks of Krishna. And then in the next life, he took birth as Jada-Bharata. And although he was a highly exalted paramahamsa, he was so afraid of becoming entangled and attached again that he pretended to be a dumb [Unintelligible 00:26:32]. And he just remained aloof from any possible allurement to material attachment again. So it is a long story. But eventually, because he was physically strong, he was taken as a palanquin bearer for the king. But he was so exalted in Krishna consciousness that while carrying the palanquin, he wouldn’t step on an ant. So, he was always looking to see if there were any insects. And, consequently, he was sort of stepping this way and that way to avoid killing any innocent creatures. And meanwhile, the king was being jostled in his palanquin, and he became angry.

So he told the palanquin bearer, “Stop!” He got out and started to chastise Jada-Bharata. Jada-Bharata, who was a liberated soul, was not affected by the insults and abuses. And later on, he sort of turned around everything that the king had said and made it all true from the spiritual point of view. Like the king, in a sarcastic way, because he was still very strong to Jada-Bharata. So the king, in a sarcastic way, said, “Oh, you see, you appear to be very lean and thin. And that is why you can’t carry the palanquin properly.” So Jada-Bharata said, “Yes, that is true. Because then, that is the spirit soul that one ten-thousandth of the size of the tip of the hair. So that is true.” And he wasn’t disturbed at all by king’s insult. And anyway, eventually he uttered a very powerful statement that he is not afraid of anything. [The king said], “I am not afraid of the thunderbolt of King Indra. I am not afraid of the trident of Lord Shiva. I am not afraid of them. There is only one thing I am afraid of, to commit vaiṣṇava-aparādha.” The vaiṣṇava-aparādha, it is the greatest danger on the path of devotional service. And the scriptures are full of warnings about vaiṣṇava-aparādha. So I just gave one example.

Now we are living in a society of devotees and we have a mission to spread Krishna consciousness what Srila Prabhupada, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Now what if we see that a devotee is doing something wrong. Do we try to correct the devotee or do we remain silent? If we remain silent, are we being negligent in our duty to our spiritual master’s mission? And if we try to correct the devotee, are we going to commit a vaiṣṇava-aparādha and create a havoc in our spiritual lives? What do we do in a practical way? In fact, Srila Prabhupada in Juhu, he was training us to be attentive and vigilant. And on one morning walking, he said in this fantastic way, “Don’t be Jada-Bharata, that you don’t see anything. You don’t hear anything. You don’t speak anything. You don’t do anything. I want you to see if something is wrong. And I want you to correct it.” Well, that is easy enough if we notice that the tap is running and we turn it off. Or if you notice that the lights have been left on, we turn them off. No, yes, we can be attentive like that. Be attentive  to show that we ring the bell on time. But what about if you see a fellow devotee doing something? Then what do we do?

So this is the question that we all face, especially devotees in positions of the authority. And here I would say that the crucial consideration is the attitude of the devotee who is attempting to correct the other devotees. Especially when we are in positions of authority. And I don’t refer only to the authorities and the structure of ISKCON, but we all have positions of authority. If we are a teacher, we are in a position of authority. If we are a husband, we are in a position of authority. If we are a parent, we are in the position of authority. And it is our duty to properly educate and train and correct our dependents. So how do we do that without committing an offense? Because our students may be devotees. Our wife may be a devotee, or child may be a devotee, and you don’t want to offend them either. So, it is more a matter of one’s consciousness when one attempts to make the correction than the fact of attempting to make the correction. But to make it very vivid and practical, if we, we can correct with sympathy and love, or we can correct with [Unintelligible 00:33:43] and even with ulterior motives.

His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami once commented in relation to the controversy that developed around the Radha-Damodara party where the temple presidents, who were mainly householders, were disturbed because they felt that Radha-Damodara party was coming to the temples and encouraging the brahmachari to leave temples and join the party and thus the temples were being disturbed. And as the different reports were presented to Srila Prabhupada, and as Srila Prabhupada assessed the situation, it did appear that temple presidents were disturbed and the preaching had not been completely correct. Although there was a lot of truth to it, I must say, and I know Tamal Krishna Goswami commented to me that he really felt that Radha-Damodara party that saved the brahmacharya ashram in the United States. So, certainly tremendous good came out of the Radha-Damodara party and so much money came to India. [Unintelligible 00:35:30] projects were collected from Radha-Damodar. So it is good too. But still somewhere there was something that was creating the disturbance. And later Tamal Krishna Goswami commented to me that he felt that although some of the temple presidents may have been right in their criticism or complaints, but many of them fell down later because their attitude was wrong, even though their points may have been right but their attitude was wrong, and therefore they fell down. I think that is the crucial point. We all need to be corrected; we do, we are human, we tend to make mistakes, we may not be able to see our mistakes, but our friends might be that authority. If we trust our friends, of course we will trust our friend, then we will hear what he has to say or what she has to say and we won’t feel threatened and we won’t just dismiss it but if we think, is this person my friend? Why is this person saying this? Then we may not take some criticism even if the criticism has some validity.

And therefore, Srila Prabhupada said that criticism offered with sympathy is more likely to be accepted. I think that is the real question. In the criticism or the correction, is there malice, is there hatred, are there political agendas involved or is there love. Is there sympathy, is there genuine respect and good wishes, that makes all the difference. That is what distinguishes a correction, a true correction from an offense. Now I didn’t mention anger and sometimes Srila Prabhupada would become angry with us if we make a mistake, but even anger can be with love or it can be with hatred. Usually in the material world anger comes with hatred, but with devotees especially with also devotees like Srila Prabhupada or exalted servants of Srila Prabhupada, the anger can come with love. Srila Prabhupada would become angry with us if we made a mistake and his anger served a purpose; it helped remove the ignorance or whatever the problem was that we had that caused us to make the mistake. But we knew that Srila Prabhupada loved us. So even anger can be used in the service of the Lord and anger can be used in the process of correction if it is with love. But if it is with hatred, I mean even if it is with love, it can be quite hard to digest. But if it is with love, we are ready to digest them, but if it is with hatred, I don’t want this. I don’t even know if maybe what he is saying is true, but I don’t want this, I don’t want to live with this person, I don’t want this person telling me what to do with my life. And even then, in different categories correcting a subordinate or a junior, correcting an equal, sometimes we are even in a situation where you sort of have to correct a superior and there are different subtle points of etiquette that one should observe.

Of course in every case internally we should feel humble, we should respect the person that we are trying to correct as a devotee and we ourselves should feel humble in our own position and pray, pray to Krishna, pray to the guru to give us the right words to put us in the right consciousness to give us the right words to point out what we feel we have to point out. And with the superior and general one will question, one will ask the question, one may say that this is wrong, you did something wrong, but one little question. Sometimes Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers, not all of them, but some of them, on some occasions acted in ways that Srila Prabhupada considered were inappropriate and they were inappropriate and sometimes the godbrothers criticized which also was inappropriate. I mean first of all the criticism itself may not have been justified, [Unintelligible 00:42:10] then again, to criticize him to his disciples was even worse. And some of them seemed to want to have to get Srila Prabhupada’s disciples to leave Srila Prabhupada and come to them.

So this is just to illustrate the point that you don’t directly criticize the superior but you can question them. So one of these godbrothers had been sent to England by Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and then called back to India and he was very critical to Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada’s disciple would hear the criticism and tell Srila Prabhupada and then Srila Prabhupada would say, “You go back and you ask him, what did you do when you were in England? Why did Guru Maharaja call you back?” And even if it is a  more normal situation, we can question. I am just making this up as an example. But do you think it is really a good idea for the temple to be involved in [Unintelligible 00:43:52]. Do you think it is really a good idea to steal computers from the supreme court judges, and try to sell it? So question, when you deal with a superior, we question. And if that doesn’t work of course, we can,  within the structure of ISKCON, there is always grades of authority so there are always levels of appeal, [Unintelligible 00:44:34]  that is something seriously wrong and we can’t solve the problems directly so go to higher authority, Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.

So anyway and we are meant to be a family and we are; we actually are a family and in that I think whatever it is we should always have the feeling that we are family. This is my family and I have nowhere else to go and whoever I am dealing with they are also part of the family and they also can’t go anywhere so whatever it is with family and we have to deal with each other with care and respect and love and we should know that we have given up everything to come to Srila Prabhupada’s family and we are not going to leave family. And we don’t want anyone to leave the family, we want others to come into the family. We definitely don’t want anyone to leave the family. and whatever it is, we should tolerate. Maybe someone made a mistake, maybe we can’t correct them depending on how serious the mistake is, maybe we should tolerate. Some authority use means to try to correct me in inappropriate way, speaking harshly to me in front of others, what she shouldn’t have done, Prabhupada speaking, and we could talk about it and try to work it out but ultimately we have to tolerate because the family, we are all we have in this world and we have to cherish each other and love each other. Hare Krishna.

So, [Unintelligible 00:47:10] and we will also try to discuss how one overcomes those details [Unintelligible 00:47:20]. Are there any questions or comments? [Unintelligible 00:47:25]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:48:04]

Giriraj Swami: Alright, this is a good question. Bharata Maharaja was a very advanced devotee. It is described that he left his wife and children and kingdom just like someone leaves a pile of stool. That is how detached he was from family life has an indication of how advanced he was in Krishna consciousness. But he decided to give shelter to a small deer who lost its mother and he just became more and more absorbed in thoughts of the deer to the point that he was always thinking of deer even when he was engaged in his worship but in his mind, he was thinking of deer. And thus he fell down. Now in a subtle way he fell down now. This is a big topic; how could such an advanced devotee fall down or how such an advanced devotee became so attached to insignificant deer. Now one proposition could be that Bharata Maharaja had committed an offense in his past life, [Unintelligible 00:50:03] effect come in his present life. Or another sort of answer similar could be that he was suffering from a karmic reaction. Now different acharyas have different ways of seeing things and presenting things. And in Srila Prabhupada’s purport, he emphasizes two points: one the misuse of independence which is a major thing, Srila Prabhupada [Unintelligible 00:50:40] and the other point he makes which is related is that Bharat Maharaja decided to extend himself to the deer and to become increasingly involved with the deer without consulting the spiritual master. That itself. . . So, Srila Prabhupada concludes and give warning to us that we should not act independently, we should consult and have our actions approved.

And on the other, on the most basic levels, is that we have free will. We have our minute independence; we have free will. And in any position, we can use it properly or misuse it. And therefore, even the verse, even though the verse suggests that it was because of Bharata Maharaja’s karma that he became attached to the deer and fell down, in the purport Srila Prabhupada said that, and I am sure Srila Prabhupada also following the previous acharyas that we cannot just accept that it was his karma. We have to hold him responsible because he misused his independence.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:50:22]

Giriraj Swami: I am sorry to interrupt you. This is also an important point about coming to the question of how devotees fall down. Why do the devotees fall down? Because what Srila Prabhupada said about Bharata Maharaja not consulting. It reminded me, because this subject has come up obviously in our lives as devotees and I remember when, I am not going to say his name but, when one of our godbrothers who was initiated, fell down he was the first one who fell down after [Unintelligible 00:53:17] And Radhanath Swami’s initial reaction was, he didn’t have friends and he felt that that was one of the main problems with some of our godbrothers in the positions they were in that they didn’t have friends. They sort of isolated themselves or they kept with their disciples but they didn’t have friends that they could open their hearts too and not necessarily get advice from. And then it came up again and I am not even sure if there wasn’t really a discussion on the topic but the last time when Tamal Krishna Goswami visited me in Santa-Barbara, he himself has brought up a question, how to put some of our godbrothers even those who have performed devotional service for years, they have chanted for years, who have read the books for years, who have done great service in the movement. What made them fall down? He said two things. One is the association of godbrothers [Unintelligible 00:55:15] and the second point that he mentioned was to do with taste for the holy names. [Unintelligible 00:55:35]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:56:10]

Giriraj Swami: Sorry to interrupt again. Now, coming to point of taste. Now okay, I don’t have taste, what do I do? So there are two answers, one is that we have serve, syān mahat-sevayā viprāḥ, by serving the pure devotees who are freed from vice one develops taste for the message of Bhāgavatam, vāsudeva-kathā-ruciḥ. The other is that one may have taste but if one commits offenses, this tastes wanes. So again we are back to the issue of offenses. But if we, as a matter of duty chants our around, hear the classes, read the books, join the kirtan, and keep busy in devotional service and don’t commit offenses we will develop it, and then that gives us more security.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:57:35]

Giriraj Swami: Well there is an immediate family and extended family. It is natural to have a lot of affection for your immediate family or even more concerned about their immediate family, that is natural. But one can still have affection and care for the extended family. What we should avoid is the mentality of friends and enemies. That we should avoid. But otherwise that is natural and no one will try to find fault with you if you spend more money on your child’s birthday than on your neighbor’s birthday. But still we have extended family, we wish them well on their birthday, or offer some small gift, they won’t feel bad [Unintelligible 01:00:10] where you feel the community members interfere with your family life, well that is a problem. But it is not in principle any different from any other problem that can arise between the devotees. Let’s try to work it out. I mean of course we spend so much energy and time. And we can’t devote our [Unintelligible 01:01:10] to mend the relations with the neighbors. But we could have maybe some association of householders where we discuss these problems. I mean this is just an example. Chanakya Pandit says that that one should never come between a husband and wife. That  one who comes between a husband and to wife becomes an enemy to both. So,  there may be certain principles of etiquette, there may be certain guidelines that the community of households can establish the spare time, reading scriptures, [Unintelligible 01:02:10]

But what you say is true that a householder because of his natural partiality to his family members, faces certain complexities. And therefore Queen Kunti prayed to Lord Krishna to sever her ties for the two family of the Vrisni family, and the Pandavas [Unintelligible 01:02:55]. And in the purport Srila Prabhupada mentioned that both of her families were devotees and therefore affection for devotees and services to devotees is not outside the range of devotional service. But there was a material side to the relationship so what she was praying with was that the material side of the attachment should be purified and the spiritual dimension of the attachment should be made. And then Srila Prabhupada mentions the same point that because of being attached to the two families, she was expected to be partial to her family. But the one family was in Delhi, Hastinapura. And they wanted Krishna to stay there and the other family was in Dvaraka. And they wanted Krishna to come back so she felt she was caught in between. And because she was part of their family, she was supposed to be partial. It is like sometimes the wife like to [Unintelligible 01:04:16] the wife will feel it is husband’s duty to take the side of the wife. It is his duty to be partial.

So those paradox complexities, they do come in life. But still we should not get involved in the mentality of friends and enemies. We have our immediate family and our extended family. And yes, we might give support to our immediate family if there is some conflict with the extended family. But we should, as far as possible, try to work things out so that there is peace in the family.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:05:20]

Giriraj Swami: Oh, that is a good question. Yes certainly the relation among devotees will improve if all the devotees feel that they are part of the same family. But will they also improve if you feel this, if you see them as part of family members.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:06:35]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, sometimes, family members go through difficult periods. If they are family, they might be temporarily overcome. Like teenagers, sometimes they get overcome or even children and adults become overcome, they just forget who they are, they forget who you are. Srila Prabhupada gave the example that the psychiatrist is trying to help the patient but sometimes the patient turns against the psychiatrist and thinks the psychiatrist is an enemy, wants to attack the psychiatrist. But the psychiatrist knows that a patient is having a mental disturbance. So even if someone has a mental disturbance and consequently is not treating us as if we were their friends and their brothers and sisters. But we still know that this person is our family member just having a mental disturbance and if there is no kind of patience eventually the mental disturbance will subside and the person will come to the senses [Unintelligible 01:08:25].

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:08:50]

Giriraj Swami: Maybe we should discuss this later. Somehow, I am stumped by this question.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:10:10]

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:10:20]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:10:30]

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 01:10:50] And Bhaktivinoda Thakura goes even further and says, instead of blaspheming devotees, that it glorifies devotees, that is the most positive way to respond to this sādhu-nindā.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:11:25]

Giriraj Swami: Well I think that if they haven’t fallen down back yet. You just think they must have some sincerity to them otherwise Krishna would have kicked them out already and maybe sort of moderate your indignation with the recognition that, well they must have something there because they are still around, they are still chanting, they are still associating devotees, they are still serving. So maybe they have already made these adjustments internally and you don’t even know it.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:12:35]

Giriraj Swami: That is a good question that doesn’t householders needs to get together and discuss their cultures and their strategies. In Krishna consciousness, there are devotees who are serving spiritual masters or sannyasis or spiritual leaders of this kind, and they have friends that they discuss with [Unintelligible 01:14:05] sometimes he would make a great effort to assemble the group of godbrothers of the special situation with. Yes, and then there are godbrothers who are naturally close to certain other godbrothers and they discuss very openly, they help each other that way. And I think that to sort of institute, an official forum. I mean it could help to some extent, especially someone sort of isolated and it could help to have an official time or place or program for them to get together and discuss. But as we say, where there is that sort of natural affinity among godbrothers on that level [Unintelligible 01:15:43] and helpful.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:15:50]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, this is a big question saying that we are an organization, people like to see in an organization and things are done in a consistent way, and that is true. and I think in some areas that it can be made more consistent than in other area. Like deity worship, daily schedule, even with a chain of restaurants to have a certain standard. But at the same time there goes very well. And Srila Prabhupada, everything is a matter of balance, Srila Prabhupada doesn’t want [Unintelligible 01:16:57] he wanted the individual to be initiated. But at the same time, we don’t want these wild individuals because they are mad if they go out and shoot up the town. They know no law, know no authority. [Unintelligible 01:17:20] And therefore Prabhupada said we need to discuss [Unintelligible 01:17:25] unity and diversity because if there is unity without diversity it is like [Unintelligible 01:17:36] but somehow, we have to discover the tricks. [Unintelligible 01:17:55] But it is true that people who like consistency, in any organization have to be truly successful, you have to have a certain standard if you would like to feel confident with the organization, that it will keep devotees. [Unintelligible 01:18:25]

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:19:12]

Giriraj Swami: That is true. I mean most societies, most cultures have elders and the elders don’t have official positions to management but they are the elders and the others consultant them. And some devotees have commented that [Unintelligible 01:20:05] We should have more of a culture of respecting the elders. And I think if the culture was there and that mood was there, then the elders would naturally want to share knowledge. [Unintelligible 01:19:35]