SB 5.13.5

Giriraj Swami: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said that the Bhagavat philosophy is meant for people who are completely free from envy – paramo nirmat-saranam. The material world is full of envious people. But even within one’s inner circle, there is much back biting. And this is compared to the sound vibration of the cricket in the forest. One cannot see the cricket, but one hears its sounds, and thus becomes aggrieved. When one takes to Krishna consciousness, one always hears unpalatable words from relatives. This is the nature of the world. One cannot avoid mental distress, due to the backbiting of envious people. Being very much aggrieved, sometimes one goes to a simple person for help. But he has no means to help, because he has no intelligence. Thus the living entity is disappointed. This is like running after mirage in the desert in an effort to find water. Such activities do not produce any tangible results. Due to being directed by the illusory energy, the conditioned soul suffers in so many ways.

 So we are gathered here at the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada, to hear his instructions, his message, very beautiful temple of Sri Sri Radha Kalahandi, and the auspicious association of devotees, servants of Srila Prabhupada. The verse hear describes the condition of a person in the material world. It also gives us a hint as to how we should not be in the spiritual society. In the material world, people’s words are not related to Krishna. Elsewhere in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Second Canto, the speaking of materialistic person is compared to the croaking of frogs. I don’t know if how many of you have the good fortune to visit the Durban temple, but around the Durban temple there is a mound and at least in the old days, during the certain time of the year, the mound would be infested with frogs, and if you were staying in one of the rooms around the mound, [Unintelligible 00:04:16–00:04:22) which were the main rooms for guests and visitors, you would hear a tumultuous sound just like we read about in the Bhāgavatam, and Prabhupada discusses. And it is vicious tumultuous, and it just goes on and on and it seemed to get louder and louder and there is no escape. 

So that is what the sound of materialistic talks is like to a devotee who has taste for kṛṣṇa-kathā. Now that is another question, because we don’t always have taste for kṛṣṇa-kathā. And sometimes we like that croaking of the frogs, or we participate in. But if we follow the program that Srila Prabhupada has given us, attending the morning program, chanting sixteen rounds, hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, reading, and we don’t commit offences, we will naturally develop taste for kṛṣṇa-kathā and then we won’t want to hear mundane sound vibration. 

Now the point about not committing offences is an important one. In the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Rupa Gosvami enumerates five most potent forms of devotional service- sadhu-saṅga—association of devotees, especially more advanced devotees; nāma-kīrtana—chanting the holy names; Bhagavat śravaṇam—hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and other scriptures that follow Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in discussing Krishna, and His devotees; murti sevā—serving the deity, and mathurā-vāsa—residing in Mathura, Vrindavan, Navadvipa, Mayapur, or any temple where the deity Radha-Krishna, or Gaura-Nitai is installed. And Rupa Gosvami says, that even a slight association with anyone of these processes, will awaken one’s love for Krishna—bhāva-bhakti. And we in principle associate with all of these processes or at least many of these processes every day. So where is our ecstatic love of Godhead. Of course, it is there to some degree but not fully. Then Rupa Gosvami explains that yes, even a slight association with any one of these five processes, it can awaken the dormant love for Godhead but there is a condition. And the condition is that one does not commit offences. And that is the challenge for us, conditioned souls.

Now the Bhāgavatam is meant for nirmat saranam, those who are free from envy. So that is easy enough, if we are free from envy, you won’t commit offences. But how do we become free from envy? Srila Prabhupada, the six Gosvamis they will describe, [Unintelligible 00:09:17], that they were pleasing both to the gentle, and the ruffians because they were not envious of anyone. And therefore they are worshipable. And Srila Prabhupada said that one cannot attain the position of not being envious, unless one is pure, unless one is liberated. So we have to make an effort to do everything, that Srila Prabhupada asked us to do, the scriptures direct us to do. It is not that we just do A, and from there comes B, and from B come C. In one sense that is true, in the sense that bhakti itself will bring us to further degrees of advancement in bhakti. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Eleventh Canto says—[Unintelligible 00:10:48]—bhakti comes from bhakti. And Srila Rupa Gosvami and other authorities have explained that means that one stage of bhakti comes from the prior stage of bhakti. Bhāva-bhakti comes from sādhana-bhakti, prema-bhakti comes from bhāva-bhakti. And even to the more detailed definition of the stages, ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo ‘tha bhajana-kriyā, and so on.

Srila Rupa Gosvami explains after listing the sixty-four items of devotional service, and specifying the five that are the most potent. He goes on to explain why certain items that one might think could have been included in the list, were excluded. And he mentions the cultivation of knowledge, and the cultivation of renunciation—jnana, and vairāgya. And he quotes a verse from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to the effect that these may be slightly helpful in the beginning, but they are not accepted as actual items of devotional service. they may be helpful in the beginning because we need to know, we need knowledge, we need to know we are not the body, so we don’t just act like the animal on the bodily platform. And we may need to make an effort to give up certain things that are unfavorable to devotional service like taking intoxication, eating meat, and so on.

But Rupa Gosvami explains that these cannot be accepted as items of devotional service. Of course, the scriptures say that they may be slightly helpful in the beginning. So we have the scriptural statement, but he goes on to say that bhakti makes the heart soft. To be more exact, the nature of bhakti is soft and it makes the heart soft. And the cultivation of knowledge, and the cultivation of renunciation may make the heart hard. So they cannot be items of devotional service, as such. Of course, they are by-products of genuine advancement of Krishna consciousness. [Unintelligible 00;14:30] vairāgya jnana, jnana vairāgya, that by unflinching service to Vasudeva, Vasudeva bhagavtathi, causeless knowledge and detachment automatically follow. So we do appreciate those qualities. Srila Prabhupada’s books do glorify them. But it is not that as devotees, we make an independent endeavor, means independent of bhakti. We make an independent endeavor to be renounced, or be knowledgeable. And in fact, the independent endeavor to be renounced, or to be learned, may make us hard-hearted, which is against the very nature of bhakti, and which will lead us to engage, and keep us engaged in making harsh sounds like crickets. 

Those harsh sounds can really hurt, and in fact now I probably could support what I am saying with reference to shastras but I never thought of it before, but I want to speak anyway. As one progresses in devotional service, and one’s heart does become softer, in one sense, one becomes more vulnerable. This is a common fact, that if you feel threatened, you will put up defenses and that will make you heart harder. So if we are advancing in Krishna consciousness, and our hearts are becoming softer, in one sense we could become more open to being hurt by harsh words of people that we don’t expect it from. And when we preach we know that there is going to be. We expect it and we don’t get disturbed because that is what preaching means. It means that we approach people who are not Krishna conscious, and try to help them become Krishna conscious. And any family member, not our devotee family members, but our ordinary family members, we can’t really expect them to appreciate what we are doing. We would hope that they would but a lot of times they don’t. But we tolerate it because we know how important Krishna consciousness is.

And there are a few verses in the Bhāgavatam that have struck me over the years, because of their radical advice on the material platform. And there is one verse in the Seventh Canto that says that if your family members preach to you, if your family members try to persuade you to make your life more complicated by being more materially involved, externally you should agree with them, and internally you should remain fix in your conviction to lead a simple life, in God consciousness. Because they are family and we can’t just smash them, the way we might try to smash a Mayavadi, or a realistic scientist or something. They are family so we don’t want to cause a destruction in the relationships with the family members, because they are part of our life. And if our relationship with our family members are disturbed, that can disturb our devotional service; it will be disturbed. So externally we agree, because we don’t want to get into big fight, but we just carry on with our Krishna consciousness and we don’t get the job they think we should have, or the [Unintelligible 00:20:06] think we should make. 

Now there are some very interesting instructions by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura about how to deal with different types of people, and he explains that, and this I suppose is more for grihasthas but most of [Unintelligible 00:20:34] are grihasthas, that with their family members, that these injunctions not associate with non- devotees, not to discuss non devotional topics, these injunctions do not mean that we are not friendly to people, in our place of work, or with family members who are not devotional. And he said it also does not mean that we do not help them in ordinary way if they need help. In other words, we don’t shun them if they are not devotees. But as human beings we help another human being who needs help. But of course, as devotees, our main focus is serving Krishna, talking about Krishna, and reading about Krishna, associating with Krishna’s devotees. And therefore, the atmosphere that we have amongst ourselves is most important. And if we have envy and backbiting, and so on, in our inner spiritual family, then how will we develop in bhakti.

So this is a very important point, and it requires practice. The Bhagavad-gītā says austerity of speech. It is an austerity in the beginning, not to speak, because we are so used to it. But it is an austerity we have to undergo and the Bhagavad-gītā says that we should say words that are pleasing, and beneficial, and it mentions in seven of the Vedic hymns. Srila Prabhupada explains that in the spiritual circle, one speaks on the basis of scriptures, one supports one statements with reference to scriptures. That is an austerity. But again if we follow the process that Srila Prabhupada has given us, not to involve ourselves in offences, then we will naturally develop taste for kṛṣṇa-kathā and we won’t want to engage in other topics. 

Now sometimes it happens that a devotee will leave the association of devotees, which is unfortunate. There is one nice statement by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, about the process of living in the ashram. And there he says that the devotees should help the other devotees in Krishna consciousness. And if someone leaves their association, the other devotees shouldn’t just speak ill of the person, they shouldn’t speak of the person at all, but rather they should go to the person and appeal to the person to come back, and try and help the person to see the benefit of the association of devotee, and the futility of material association. And Srila Bhaktisiddhanta also says that if someone leaves the ashram, we should feel that we are 50 percent responsible. And if we are the leaders, we should really. Well of course, [Unintelligible 00:25:25] and it is a difficult job. But still we should think where we failed or where we could have done better to make them want to stay. And I think that is the critical issue here. 

Sometimes we take the shelter of the tree that has no fruits, or flowers. And Srila Prabhupada explains that it refers to sinful people, taking shelter of sinful people. And it has happened that devotees take shelter of mundane whatever, say psychologists or motivational speakers or new age preachers, and the reason as suggested by the verse is they are hungry. They are hungry; somehow their appetite is not being fulfilled in their present association. They are hungry so they go outside the present association of devotees in ISKCON. And they take shelter of a tree hoping to get some delicious fruits, but actually there are no fruits on that tree, so they become frustrated. Or they may be illusion like someone chasing after a mirage. They keep chasing after it because they don’t realize it is an illusion, it may take some time before they realize it is an illusion and in the meanwhile they keep chasing after it. 

Now on another level, some devotees, leave the association of devotees in ISKCON because they are hungry for more hari-kathā. Of course there are different types of hari-kathā and of course there is [Unintelligible 00:27:42] by Srila Prabhupada, we want to come in his line, but it may happen. There are so many other factors that could complicate the decision but sometimes someone just feels that here, she wants to hear some nice līlā kathā, and it is not that easily available in ISKCON. And here we comes to the point of kirtan; the importance of kirtan, because you get everything from kirtan. And I think that in normal association of devotees in ISKCON, if there is enough kirtan, and enough good association, among the devotees in ISKCON, we won’t really feel the need to go outside ISKCON, but it should be there within ISKCON. And yesterday there was a good kirtan going on in the temple, it must have been after 9:00 o’clock. It was very sweet; I joined it for a while. Very sweet! 

In his last visit to Mayapur, His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami organized kirtans, three hour kirtans in his room, and they were such an eagerness of the devotees to participate. His room which was quite big, became too small. They had to move the kirtan. People were standing outside the door trying to get in, trying to relish from outside the room. And there are statements in the Bhāgavatam, to the effect that householders. . . well there is one statement in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, where Lord Chaitanya and his associates were doing kirtan for several hours, every evening. And in the purport, Srila Prabhupada comments that in every ISKCON temple, we should gather and chant the holy names for three hours every night.

And then in the Seventh Canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the instructions for householders, it explains that the householders, whenever possible, should hear from saintly persons, and that by hearing repeatedly, the sound will gradually awaken them from their dream state of material existence. And there too, Srila Prabhupada mentions the hours. Now I am seeing so many eyebrows raised literally, but three hours isn’t too much. In Bombay, Srila Prabhupada said, twelve hours. There is just a little, but just before Srila Prabhupada left, one of Prabhupada’s staunch supporters in Bombay, Mr. P.L Setie, he employed a group called the Radha-Madhava [Unintelligible 00:32:01], and they are basically householders. They are somehow attached to Vraja, and they chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra for twelve hours continuously from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. every Sunday. And they usually take turns at different householder’s home. But Mr. Setie had the idea, Why not bring them to Juhu, to Hare Krishna land. So they came, and it was 1977, we had a small temple, like a shed, and the main temple was under construction, getting close to the end, the deities weren’t installed but the towers, the top floor of one of the towers was occupied, was pre occupied by Srila Prabhupada, and he basically forced us to finish it. And we moved in before it was ready (another story). But anyway, he was living there and the elevator wasn’t even working. He was on the fifth floor and he was quite old, he couldn’t really walk down. And when he did come down, the devotees had to carry him on a palanquin.

So Radha-Madhava satsaṅga mandala came. They were doing kirtan, and the old temple, the little temple was just under Prabhupada’s window. And after a while, there was this silent reciprocation, you don’t see them but you know they are talking ill of you. This was the opposite; they couldn’t see Srila Prabhupada, but they knew that he was there listening. And he couldn’t see them, but he knew that they were there chanting. And at a certain stage, they just wanted to see Srila Prabhupada, but they couldn’t walk up and they had to continue the kirtan, and he couldn’t walk down. So they came out of the temple, brought the kirtan under his balcony, and eventually through various was chanting we did not really have any hope or expectation but them eventually, Srila Prabhupada came to the balcony and looked down at this wonderful reciprocation between the chanters. And then after the twelve hours of Hare Krishna kirtan, they were singing Braja songs for two hours. And Mr. Setie told me, I wasn’t there but, there is one lady, she was famous, the last song that they would usually sing, was jaya Radhe, jaya Radhe, Radhe Radhe, Sri Radhe. Jaya Krishna, jaya Krishna Krishna, jaya Krishna, jaya Sri Krishna. And Mr. Shetty was there with Srila Prabhupada when she sang, and he said tears were running down Srila Prabhupada’s cheeks. 

So the next morning, Srila Prabhupada called for me and he said that the kirtan was wonderful. And he said that we should do this every day; twelve hours nonstop kirtan every day. So right as I was I said, “But Srila Prabhupada, we have so much service to do.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “All right, then once a week, on Sunday.” And later when I related the incident to His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami, he said that was a transcendental bargain. Srila Prabhupada knew that if we started the twelve hours on Sunday, we would all be like “Oh, we can’t do that we could probably go for two hours.” But he started with twelve hours every day, so when he said twelve hours on a Sunday [Unintelligible 00:37:16]. So that became a regular practice and so many problems got solved just by that kirtan. It was amazing.

I was the temple president. There were problems, and again Juhu was a big project. And I would try to deal with them, but by Thursday I knew all I had to do is wait for Sunday kirtan, and it will get solved. On Thursday, I was just waiting. And they got solved, either they disappeared or the devotees realized they weren’t really problems, or they got the answer or I got the answer how to deal with it. It was miraculous. So it is what Prabhupada said, that good management follows Krishna consciousness, like the tail follows the dog. It is true that we have to be practical, we always go “Prabhu, we have to be practical,” but the basic principle is really to be Krishna conscious and to spread Krishna consciousness. And then all the other problems get solved. They find their place in the right perspective, and they are dealt with, in an appropriate manner. But it also does not mean that we don’t discuss management, Prabhupada did that too. But he did not allow the management to eclipse the hearing and chanting about Krishna. That, he said is the main point.

We all saw Tamal Krishna Goswami, noted it in particular that Srila Prabhupada would be having this intense managerial discussion with the leaders, and especially in India with all the big projects, and all the enemies, and all the difficulties, but when the time came he just drop it, walked into the temple room and gave a class, as if the problem did not exist. So I think the main thing is focus, and perspective, and if we spend that time together, we will become close. It is true, we come from different background and have different mentalities, and so on, but in kirtan we all united, and when one devotee asked Srila Prabhupada, how do we deal with difficulties in the relationships among the devotees, Srila Prabhupada, well he said two things, but they can come to the same conclusion. In one case he said you should engage in common activity, and in the other case he said you should do saṅkīrtana together, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana together.

So we do need to engage in activities together. In the early days of ISKCON our activities were quite simple. We had our morning programs, and then we would go out on the street and chant, distribute BTG, and books. And I remember one zone that was really focused on hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, or book distribution festivals. But after years it gave in and they had a department of public relations, or public affairs and communication [Unintelligible 00:41:43]. But we need all these things, the world is more complicated and the movement has grown, so we need specialized departments. But we also need to come together in combat to these, and that will unite us. And what could be a better common activity than hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, and chanting for hours, chanting and hearing for hours. 

His holiness Radhanath Swami in Chowpatty, they have regular. . . they just chant and chant and have hari-kathā, and chant and take prasāda together, and it really keeps them enlivened spiritually because of all the hearing and chanting. And it keeps them close together as a community, because they are doing so many things together. And in that environment you won’t be tempted to go out and look for shelter, or fruits, and flowers outside ISKCON. And that I think is the positive solution. We have our rules and regulations, we have our restrictions, we have our laws, we have our loyalties, but really we should make our spiritual family so loving.

That is another thing love, people wanted, needed, we all do, and I think every devotee, if he can get it in ISKCON, he wants to get it in ISKCON, and stay in ISKCON. But sometimes it is such a need, such a hunger, that if it is not there in ISKCON, even though they don’t want to leave ISKCON, but it is such a need that they will go outside ISKCON to look for it. So that is really hurtful that that need for love and association, loving reciprocation with other human beings, is not sufficient in ISKCON and satisfied. And it really all goes together; it is not like Krishna consciousness is spiritual and love is material. But by becoming Krishna conscious, you can never be fully Krishna conscious, but as we become more and more Krishna conscious, or full of devotion in Krishna, then naturally we want to share what we have with other, with other devotees. And not only that we appreciate the other devotees, because without them we couldn’t have kirtan, without them we could not have hari-kathā. We need them, we need each other. we can’t do it on our own, and so we appreciate them.

If there was no one to hear, there would be no one to speak to. Both are equally important, and so we need each other, and for surrendered souls we are all we have. We don’t have any, we don’t want to go to a simple man. We don’t want to go back to our mundane family; we are all we have. If we can’t count on each other as spiritual family, to help us be Krishna conscious, and take care of us on all levels emotionally and physically, then what do we have. We don’t have anything. But we do have each other and we are taking care of each other, we just have to maybe do it a little better.

Hare Krishna

Devotee: You mentioned about that we don’t need jnana, and vairāgya. Not that we don’t need, but it is not a prerequisite for bhakti, and yet we hear the verse [Unintelligible 00:47:05] how Krishna came in order to ask Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in order to give that, his own devotion, meaning devotion to himself characterized by [Unintelligible 00:47:20]

Giriraj Swami: Good question. He is quoting the verse in which Sarvabhauma Bhattacharya was advised by Lord Chaitanya, [Unintelligible 00:47:32–34) that he came to give devotional service to himself, śuddha-bhakti, enriched by knowledge and detachment.

Well I will just repeat. They are helpful in the beginning, they may be somewhat helpful in the beginning, but they are more a consequence of bhakti, than an independent item of bhakti. And here I also say the verse and purport from the prayers of Queen Kunti, where she prays to Krishna, “Please sever my attachments to my family members, [Unintelligible 00:48:36], and please let my devotion to you flow unimpeded, just like the Ganges flows to the ocean.”

And in the purport, Srila Prabhupada explains that her family were devotees. And that affection for devotees, or service to devotees is not outside the range of Krishna consciousness. So when she prays that her attachment to her family member be severed, she meant the attachment that is based on the body, not the relationship that is based on the soul. Now we are all spiritual family members, we are a part of Srila Prabhupada’s family, and even within Srila Prabhupada’s family, we have our own grihastha ashram. And our attachment to each, our affection to each other may have two dimensions—the relation of soul to soul based on love for the Super Soul, Supreme Soul, and on the bodily level. And so we want to preserve spiritual feature of the relationship, and let the so called material feature become less. But it does not mean that we abruptly severed the relationship. And in fact, the scriptures and especially [Unintelligible 00:50:38] by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, explain how one gradually develops taste for Krishna consciousness, and simultaneously loses taste for material subjects.

So I think that is an important instruction, that we don’t want to cause. . . sometimes it happens, someone who doesn’t take sannyasa but generally what we want is to preserve the relationship. But by offenseless hearing and chanting, and serving increase the spiritual side of it and decreases the material side of it. And that is a natural process. So the end result is, yes we are more detached but I think it is let us say thoughtful devotees, and observers have remarked that one of the problem in the grihastha ashram in ISKCON over the years, has been negative attitude towards it from the beginning. The dark well of material life, dry well surrounded by snakes and no rope to get out. So from the beginning it is considered a fall down, disgraceful position, an abominable condition, and so they are entering it in a very positive mood. And then one party will resent the other, for taking him or her away from service to Prabhupada, or service to the temple, and the children. So I think that is what is needed, we don’t want to artificially or abruptly try to be detached. But it will happen naturally by devotional service, and so whoever it is, family members, fellow devotees of the temple, or congregational member, we see that there is a spiritual relationship, even though there are mundane elements, there is a spiritual relationship and we just want to encourage that, and cultivate that. 

Devotee: We don’t really have a choice.

[Unintelligible 00:53:50]

Giriraj Swami: I will just answer briefly because the time is over, and I don’t want to offend any of the esteemed devotees, who have other commitments. But basically just to make it very brief that cultivation of jnana, would refer more to distinguishing matter, and spirit—I am not the body, and I am not that. But hearing and chanting and remembering, there are so many books; Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, books of the Gosvamis. That constant hearing, and chanting; but it does enrich us with knowledge, and by attracting us to Krishna, it makes us detached from the world. And so that knowledge, and detachment are what Lord Chaitanya [Unintelligible 00:55:51–58) along with his own devotion.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya

Giriraj Swami Maharaja ki jaya

Gaura bhakta Vrinda ki jaya