Srila Narottama Dasa Thakura’s Appearance Day

Giriraj Swami: Today is the divine appearance day of Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, one of the great acharyas in the disciplic succession after Lord Caitanya. He composed many songs in simple bengali verse but the conclusions of the songs, the deep purports are on the same level as the Vedic scriptures. One day when Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was still manifesting His pastimes, He suddenly began to chant, “Narottama, Narottama,Narottama, Narottama.” So, His devotees asked Him, “Who is Narottama?” And Lord Chaitanya replied that, “He will appear soon and He will be empowered to write songs or poems on the Vaisnava philosophy in a very simple way but in such a way that the message will be infused into the hearts of the devotees and awaken their dormant love for Krishna.”

So in due course Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu wound up His manifest pastimes and soon after He left, as predicted, Narottama dasa Thakura took birth as the son of a king. And as usual, the family called an astrologer to read the future of their child and the astrologer predicted that he would be a great devotee but they should keep him away from water. Because if they didn’t keep him away from water, he would leave the house and kingdom and become mad. The background to the prediction was that Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu left His prema in the river nearby for Narottama dasa to get when He went to take bath in the river.

So for many years the family was vigilant to keep him away from water, from the river, but eventually, somehow, he did go to the river and take bath and that prema that Gauranga had left for him was there and as predicted, Narrotama dasa became completely mad with love for Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Gauranga prema, and he was not at all interested in material life, family life, or ruling the kingdom, enjoying the kingdom, or any such thing. I. . . just giving a little background. I will return to the song that we were discussing yesterday, which is written by Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, Mana Shiksha, Teachings to the mind, from Prathna. We had discussed the first half of the first verse,

nitāi-pada-kamala, koṭi-candra-suśītala,

je chāyāy jagata jurāy

And the second part

heno nitāi bine bhāi, 

rādhā-kṛṣṇa pāite nāidhṛdha kori’ dharo nitāir pāy

Srila Prabhupada comments, “What will be the result of accepting the shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda?”

He says, “heno nitāi bine bhāi, unless one takes shelter under the shade of the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda, rādhā-kṛṣṇa pāite nāi, it will be very difficult for him to approach Radha-Krishna. The aim of this Krishna consciousness movement is to enable us to approach Radha-Krishna and associate with the Supreme Lord in his sublime pleasure dance. Narottama dasa Thakura advises that if one actually wants to enter into the dancing party of Radha-Krishna, he must accept the shelter of the lotus feet of Lord Nityananda. If we go back to the appearance of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to the purpose of His appearance, we find in the fourth verse of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, anarpita-carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇaḥ kalau, that Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appeared in the age of Kali out of His mercy, to give what no one else had given after a very long time, and that is the sublime mellow of conjugal love. Of course this is a very esoteric topic, but still, it is the special mission of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to give the most intimate service of Radha and Krishna. And Narottama dasa Ṭhākura’s songs are filled with the aspiration to serve Radha and Krishna. And to fulfill his aspiration, he prays to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu. So again, we come back to Srila Prabhupada’s statement that our goal is to approach Radha and Krishna. But we cannot approach Radha and Krishna without the mercy of Lord Chaitanya. And to get the mercy of Lord Chaitanya we need the mercy of Lord Nityananda. And to get the mercy of Lord Nityananda we have to approach people like Jagai and Madhai.

When I first joined, I was told that Srila Prabhupada had said that the way to develop the love of the gopīs for Krishna was to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world. Now in and of itself it may sound like a radical statement. What is the connection between spreading Krishna consciousness all over the world and developing love for Radha and Krishna in the mood of the gopīs? But if we come back to the statement that I just quoted from Srila Prabhupada we can see the connection. That by approaching people like, Jagai and Madhai, by preaching, we get the mercy of Lord Nityananda. By the mercy of Lord Nityananda we get the mercy of Lord Chaitanya. By the mercy of Lord Chaitanya we can approach Radha and Krishna and that is our ultimate goal. That is the ultimate goal of the Krishna consciousness movement. Sometimes Srila Prabhupada said that we will have another ISKCON in the spiritual world. So here, Srila Prabhupada’s, statement that by the mercy of Lord Nityananda we will be able to enter the dancing party of Radha and Krishna, that may be some hint of what ISKCON in the spiritual world will be like, at least part of ISKCON of spiritual world. Then he says. . . well I will read the verse and then I will come back to the puport.

se sambandha nāhi jā’r, bṛthā janma gelo tā’r
sei paśu boro durācār
nitāi nā bolilo mukhe, majilo saḿsāra-sukhe
vidyā-kule ki koribe tār

Then he says, se sambandha nāhi, sambandha means connection or contact. Anyone who has not contacted a relationship with Nityananda is understood to have spoiled his human birth. In another song also Narrotama dasa says hari hari! bifale janama goṅāinu. Anyone who does not approach Radha-Krishna through a relationship with Nityananda has uselessly spoiled his life. Bṛthā means useless, janma means life, tā’r means his and sambandha means relationship. Anyone who does not make a relationship with Nityananda is simply spoiling the boon of his human form of life. Why is he spoiling it? sei paśu boro durācār. Sei means that, paśu means animal, and durācār means misbehaved or the most misbehaved. Without elevation to Krishna consciousness, through the mercy of Lord Caitanya and Nityananda, life is simply spoiled in the animal propensities of sense gratification.

Narottama dasa says that ordinary animals can be tamed. But when a human being is animalistic, having only animal propensities, he is most horrible, for he cannot be tamed. Ordinary cats and dogs or even a tiger can be tamed, but when a human being goes out of his way and neglects to take to the human activity of Krishna consciousness, his higher intelligence will simply be misused for animal propensities. And it is very difficult to tame him. The enactment of state laws cannot make a thief an honest man. Because his heart is polluted he cannot be tamed. Every man sees that a person who commits criminal offenses is punished by the government and also in scriptural injunctions punishment in hell is mentioned. But despite hearing from scripture and seeing the action of the state laws, the demoniac cannot be tamed.

So, dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samāna, that without dharma, one is on the same level as animals. Srila Prabhupada would also often raise the question what is the difference between a human being and an animal? If I ask you what is the difference between a human being and an animal, what will you say Narayana? Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Both animals and human beings eat, sleep, mate, and defend. But the human being has extra intelligence, more highly developed consciousness to understand God, to become God conscious. And if he doesn’t use his added intelligence to understand God then he is misusing his human form of life and engaging in the same activities as animals. Now, Srila Prabhupada raises an important point, which is that someone may know from the scripture what he should do and not do. And one may see from the actions of the state how a criminal is punished. But still a person may not be able to restrain himself from such activities.

We find in the story of Ajamila in the Sixth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that when he saw the prostitute and became agitated, he thought of the instructions that he had learned in his childhood and he tried to restrain his senses. Still he was unable to do so. Why? Because his heart was polluted. So even if we know from scripture, even if we know from common sense or good sense that we should not do something. But if we have lust within the heart, we will transgress the Vedic conjunctions. And in the Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna asked the same question to Krishna, “How is it that we do things that we know we are not supposed to do, that we don’t really even want to do? But we seem to do that be compelled to do them as if by force.” And Lord Krishna replies kāma eṣa krodha eṣa, rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ “That it is lust, and lust only, which is born of modes of passion which is the sinful enemy of mankind.” So just having knowledge, jnana, is not enough. One must actually purify the heart. And the process for purifying the heart is the purpose for which Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda descended, that is to introduce the chanting of the holy names of the Lord, hari-nāma-kīrtana. As we all know, as we all heard,

 ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhāva—mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ
śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ
sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam,

The chanting of the holy names of the Lord cleanses the dirty things from the heart. Therefore, unless we accept the mercy of Lord Nityananda and through his mercy, the mercy of Lord Chaitanya, in the form of Nityananda, we will remain like animals. We won’t be able to control our lust, anger, greed, and other base propensities. So Śrīla Narottama dasa Ṭhākura’s statement is correct. It is correct that, unless you develop a relationship with Lord Nityananda, unless you accept His mercy in the form of hari-nāma-sankīrtana and accept His guidance in the form of the instructions of the spiritual master, who is His representative, you won’t be able to overcome the animal propensities and you will misuse the human form of life. Srila Prabhupada continues, “What are they doing? nitāi nā bolilo mukhe.” Since they do not know who Nityananda is, they never say the names of Lord Nityananda and Lord Chaitanya. Now this is another point. Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami discusses in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that in the chanting of the holy names of the maha-mantra, Hare Krishna, there are offenses to be considered. And if one commits offenses while chanting, he won’t get the result of chanting.

In fact he says, that one can chant for thousands of lifetimes and not get the actual results of the chanting, which is pure love of Krishna. But he goes on to say that in the chanting of the names of the Pancha-tattva, the chanting of the names of Gaura-Nitai, there is no consideration of offenses. And therefore by chanting the names of the Pancha-tattva one can become ecstatic. And then when one is ecstatic one can chant the holy names of Krishna without offense. So, nitāi nā bolilo mukhe, Srila Prabhupada says that since they do not know who Nityananda is, they never say the names of Lord Nityananda and Lord Caitanya. So that is very serious. One may think, “Well we can chant Hare Krishna, people know Hare Krishna. They may not know about Lord Nityananda. They know Hare Krishna. They can chant Hare Krishna and develop pure love for Krishna and go back home back to Godhead.” But it is not so easy.

Yes, if one can chant purely the holy names of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, you can develop pure love of Godhead and go back to the spiritual world. But we cannot commit, we cannot chant without offenses unless we are very advanced. And in our stage when we are prone to commit offenses, we must chant the holy names of the Pancha-tattva. And therefore in the process of kirtan that Srila Prabhupada introduced in ISKCON, he introduced the chanting of the Pancha-tattva mantra first and then the Hare Krishna mantra in kirtan. And he said that by chanting the Hare Krishna. . . the Pancha-tattva mantra, the Pancha-tattva will help us to chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. Majilo saḿsāra-sukhe, majilo means become absorbed. They become absorbed in so-called material enjoyment. They don’t care who Lord Chaitanya and Nityananda are and therefore, they go deep down into material existence. So that is the nature of offenses. If one commits offenses, he loses taste for spiritual life and he increases in attraction from material so-called enjoyment. They don’t care who Lord Chaitanya, Nityananda are and therefore they go deep down into material existence. There is another verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Eleventh Canto, that even if someone performs his duties according to varna and ashram very perfectly, but if he does not. . . he or she does not develop his relationship with Krishna, then he falls down and goes to hell.

When Srila Prabhupada paraphrased that verse and it sounded very shocking, Srila Prabhupada said that even if you perform your duties very perfectly but if you don’t become Krishna conscious you go to hell. And then years later I saw the verse in the Bhāgavatam. The explanation is. . . because quite often people give the argument that, “I am a good person. I don’t cheat, I don’t lie, I don’t steal, I don’t hurt others. Why do I have to worship God?” So the verse explains and the commentators explained, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains that the Lord is our Supreme father. In the previous verses, the Bhāgavatam has spoken about the different varnas and ashrams. How they are part of the universal form of the Lord. Or the brahmans come from the head, the kshatriya come from the arms and so on. So we all come from Krishna and Krishna is our father as such. So, it is the duty of the child to know who his father is and to be grateful for what his or her father has done and to be obedient to one’s father. So because Krishna is the Supreme father, if we don’t acknowledge Him, even though we are following our duties, we fall down. We fall down from our position in varnasrama-dharma.

Then Srila  Vishvanatha  Cakravarti Thakura says that when we fall down from our position in varnasrama-dharma, we gradually descend to the level of animals. We engage in sinful activities and then we go to hell. So there is great meaning condensed into short verses in scripture, in the songs of Narottama. In the statements of Srila Prabhupada like that, even if you perform your duties very perfectly, if you don’t become Krishna conscious you go to hell. But there are steps in between abc to get to z. But the verse will just mention the beginning and the end and it may sound shocking, or it may sound extreme. But there is a process that is initiated that leads to that conclusion.

So, since they do not know who Nityananda is, they never say the names of Lord Nityananda and Lord Chaitanya, majilo saḿsāra-sukhe. Majilo means becomes absorbed. They become absorbed in so-called material enjoyment. They don’t care who Lord Chaitanya and Nityananda are and therefore they go deep down into material existence. So it is an offense. You are living in your father’s house and you don’t acknowledge him? It is an offense. Even if you do your household chores but if you don’t acknowledge him it is an offense. And I would say in the house of ISKCON, the same applies to Srila Prabhupada. Whatever we have in Krishna consciousness, whatever we know about Krishna consciousness has come from him and we have to acknowledge him. It may be that later in our devotional service we get some shelter or some knowledge from some other Vaishnava outside ISKCON which happens. We won’t comment on why it happens, if it should happen, if it shouldn’t happen, but it does happen. But whatever it is, whatever we know of Krishna consciousness basically came from Srila Prabhupada and even the possibility of coming in touch with other Vaishnavas outside ISKCON exists because our interest in Krishna consciousness was awakened by Srila Prabhupada. And sometimes Srila Prabhupada would quote the saying, “England with all thy faults, I love thee.” So even if from one point of view there are faults in ISKCON still because it is like Srila Prabhupada said, “It is his body, it is kind of his body,” and we take care.

When we serve the spiritual master we don’t distinguish that you are one type of service from another type of service, taking care of the body of the spiritual master is actually the service that disciples do. That is how they begin in devotional service. So we should always acknowledge the fact that whatever we know in Krishna consciousness, whatever we have become in Krishna consciousness is due to Srila Prabhupada’s mercy. And without Srila Prabhupada’s mercy, we would be. . . we probably were, and we were probably destined to be exactly what’s described in the verse here. Living like animals, durācār. As the saying goes, “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.” Whatever we have is by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada. Whatever we are in devotional service is by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada told the story. I am sure you all know, punar mūṣiko bhāva, again you become a mouse.

(Now I am going to have to go out for a minute, and be right back following chanakya’s third maxim. And I guess you can chant or whatever. And we will continue the class then).

So many of you may know the story that, a mouse approached a saintly person and said, “I am very much troubled, because I am being chased by a cat.” “So what you want?” The mouse said, “I want to be a cat.” So the saintly person said, “Become a cat.” And the cat came back and said, “I am being troubled by a dog.” “What do you want?” “Want to become a dog.” “Become a dog.” So eventually, the dog came back and said, “I am being troubled by a tiger.” “So what do you want?” “To become a tiger.” So the saintly person blessed him. “Okay you become a tiger.” Then the tiger started to look at the saintly person as if he is going to pounce on him and devour him. So immediately the saintly person said, “Punar mūṣiko bhāva, again you become a mouse.”

So Srila Prabhupada told the story to make the point that by the mercy of the spiritual master one grows in devotional service, one attains greater and greater achievements in devotional service. But then if one thinks that he can take the place of the spiritual master, to sort of devour the spiritual master, depose the spiritual master and take the place of the spiritual master, he will become a mouse again. He will go back to where he began. Srila Prabhupada told that story in Vrindavan when he was very ill in 1974 and devotees were trying to understand the causes of his illness. Because they thought the cause couldn’t be just, physical. There must have been some other dimension to it. So Srila Prabhupada commented that there was a great struggle going on in ISKCON as to who would control the movement, him or some of the disciples. And so he told the story of punar mūṣiko bhāva, that if you know, that if you think you can take the place of the spiritual master then, punar mūṣiko bhāva, then again punar mūṣiko bhava, you become a mouse. You become what you were before you got the mercy of the spiritual man. So Brahmananda Prabhu was with Srila Prabhupada at the time and Srila Prabhupada, after telling the story, he raised the question of what happens to a disciple if he wants to take the place of the spiritual master? And Brahmananda Prabhu replied based on the story that Srila Prabhupada had just related, “He will become a mouse again.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “No. He is already a mouse.” And it reminds me of another instance, a little different but in a way it is similar. In 1970 there was a great gathering at New Vrindavan for Srila Prabhupada Vyasa-puja and at the gathering, some of Srila Prabhupada’s prominent disciples began to preach that devotees had misunderstood Srila Prabhupada’s position and that actually he was God.

Satsvarupa Maharaja was the temple president in Boston. He went but I stayed back in Boston, because we had to look after the temple there. Anyway there was a big conflict. And these preachers these prominent devotees they were very powerful in their presentation. And they really bewildered the other devotees, most of the other devotees. Anyway, the news reached Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada said that this is Mayavada philosophy that the guru is God. And although they say that not recognizing Prabhupāda is God is minimizing him, but actually, the Mayavadi philosophy that the spiritual master is God really minimizes the position of the spiritual master because if the spiritual master is God, that the spiritual master can become God then the disciple also can become God. And then when he becomes God there is no difference between him and the spiritual master. They are the same.

Once Srila Prabhupada was on a morning walk in Mayapur and he and the disciples came to an embankment. So Bhavananda Prabhu climbed up on the embankment and took Srila Prabhupada’s hand to help him up. And when Srila Prabhupada got to the top in a very abrupt way, he withdrew his hand from Bhavananda Prabhu’s hand and began to walk ahead and leave him behind. So Bhavananda Prabhu was very upset, or he was very concerned, whether he had done something wrong for Srila Prabhupada to have dealt with him like that. And then Srila Prabhupada said, “This is what the Mayavadis do. They take help from the spiritual master to reach a certain position and then they think they don’t need the spiritual master anymore, they think they can leave him behind and go ahead.” So, the Mayavadi philosophy is very pernicious. And it opposes bhakti on every level and that is why Srila Prabhupada was so strong in preaching against it at every stage. In fact his praṇāma mantra describes his mission, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. Because it is everywhere. Some disciple asked Srila Prabhupada that well it came up many times in different forms, but “Why do you preach so much against the Mayavadis? You are saying Mayavadis are some group in India. Why are you preaching so much about the Mayavadis as if to say we don’t have Mayavadis in America? They are in India.” And he said, “You say that because you are Mayavadi. You don’t like my preaching against the Mayavadis because you are one.” So it is not that Mayavadis. . .it is a very evolved type of philosophy in India, but that impersonalism and voidism is everywhere. It is in every religious tradition even if it is not there in the scriptures as such, but in every tradition there are people that are impersonal. And they read the scriptures and see the tradition in impersonal ways. And it is the antithesis of bhakti. Bhakti means there is the servant, the served, and the service. Bhakti means there are those three elements. And mayavada, which makes everything one, is the antithesis of bhakti. It is the exact opposite. And therefore Srila Prabhupada preached so strongly against it because it cuts at the very foundation of bhakti.

Sometimes we take for granted that people are devotees, but they are not necessarily devotees. Under the surface they may be impersonalists. It is nice to assume they are devotees because then we can talk about Krishna which is nice. But we can’t. A lot of the people who come to the temple, who bow down, offer donations, take prasādam, underneath they may be impersonalists. And now yoga is very popular. Sometimes in California I preach to audiences that have a lot of yoga students. It is the same thing. Under the surface they may be impersonalists. And we can say all we want about Krishna and devotional service, but if under the surface they are impersonalists in their minds they will translate whatever we say into impersonal terms. We will say Krishna, but in their minds they will be thinking something impersonal.

Like the famous Mayavadi commentators in India. That is how they treat the Gītā. They don’t take Krishna as Krishna. But they take Krishna as the symbol, or the mouthpiece, or the spokes person for something impersonal that is speaking through Krishna. Like Srila Prabhupada used to quote, well we won’t mention the name, but in his commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā said, “It is not to the person Krishna that we must surrender, but to the unknown, unborn, unmanifest, unknowable, that is speaking through Kirshna.” Srila Prabhupada said it would be as if he asked for a glass of water, and then say “I asked [Unintelligible] for a glass of water.” And then the person next to him says, “No, no don’t give Swamiji a glass of water. Throw the water on the white wall behind Swamiji.”

So Krishna is saying, “Surrender to Me.” And the commentators are saying, “No, no don’t surrender to Krishna. Surrender to the white light behind Krishna.” So this, it is very deep and so, we can’t take it for granted that someone is a devotee just because they do things that devotees do. What really counts is the consciousness. Srila Prabhupada used the phrase, “Chaitanya’s path and Shankara’s math.” Chaitanya’s path means bhakti-marg and Shankara’s math is one plus one equals one. So he said there are people who follow Chaitanya’s path, but they accept Shankara’s math. In other words they are Mayavadis who believe that bhakti is one of the ways in which you can ultimately reach impersonal realization. So they can do all the things that devotees do. But within their hearts is the desire to merge and become one with God. And they think this is just one of the ways that you can do that.

I will tell another story which is related. Srila Prabhupada had a friend in Bombay named Dr Patel, Dr C.P. Patel. And if you have heard Srila Prabhupada morning walks in Bombay, you read his conversations, you will see there are many morning walks with Dr Patel. Now Dr Patel claimed to be a Vaishnava. But Srila Prabhupada always accused him of being a Mayavadi, which he vehemently denied. And it was very hard to say. It was very hard for us to say. It would be hard for anyone to say. So one morning Srila Prabhupada happened to criticize a popular Mayavadi preacher in India. And Dr Patel went wild. I mean he got so upset, he was just livid with rage and he was almost shouting at Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada was shouting back at him and Dr Patel’s friends. . . he was a doctor, he was highly educated. He studied in England and he was very proud because he went to England and studied but he didn’t compromise his principles. He remained vegetarian and teetotaler. So he was quite proud. And he knew Sanskrit and so, he had some friends that would accompany him on the morning walks, I think gujarati gentlemen, and so they were trying to restrain him. That, “Don’t argue with Swamiji. Swamiji has a heart condition.” But it was. . . Eventually they pulled him away, but it was like he just was wild.

So, the devotees were very upset. As it is, they didn’t like the way Dr Patel argued with Srila Prabhupada and they couldn’t understand why Srila Prabhupada even entertained him and one time, after a morning walk, one of the devotees asked Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada said, “We have to engage everyone.” But on this particular instance, some of the devotees went up to Srila Prabhupada’s room because they were so concerned about what had happened. And Srila Prabhupada told a story that there was a man who spoke many languages fluently. And he spoke so fluently, and in the different languages that no one could tell where he was from originally. And so all the villagers were talking among themselves, and no one could say. Because no matter what you said to him he would reply perfectly in that language. And no one could figure out. But they wanted to know where is he from. So then one of them said, “I have an idea. I will tell you, I will find out.” So once when the man wasn’t looking this other person snuck up behind him and gave him a big whack on the back. And then he started to curse in his original language. And then they found out where he was really coming from.

So, Srila Prabhupada said there are people like that in India. They can speak very expertly in different languages. They can speak like Vaishnavas, they can speak like shaivites, they can speak like shaktas, they can speak like Mayavadis. And you don’t know what they really are. But when you give them a smack where it hurts, then their real language comes out. And by Srila Prabhupada’s attacking, but he took it very seriously, Dr Patel, by Srila Prabhupada’s speaking about his revered Mayavadi guru, his real language came out. So it was a major upheaval. And for the first time in years, for years every day Dr Patel would come before the morning walk and accompany Srila Prabhupada to Juhu beach. Or at the least he would meet Srila Prabhupada at Juhu beach, they would walk together, and talk. And I think Srila Prabhupada at the same time that he was engaging Dr Patel who was also engaging us in hearing their discussions which were very instructive for us. So it was a big thing. Dr Patel didn’t come, and he didn’t join Srila Prabhupada at the beach. But then, I am not sure if it was the same day, or two days later, but anyway sometime within the first two or three days, Prabhupāda and his disciples were walking and Dr Patel and his friends were walking way at the opposite ends of the beach and they were coming towards each other. And we didn’t know what was going to happen. Prabhupāda just kept walking forward. And Dr Patel was walking on his side.

And then suddenly as they got close Dr Patel sort of broke the line that he was walking in and came over to Srila Prabhupada and touched Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet. And he said, “You know Prabhupāda, I am sorry but I have just been taught to respect all the saints of India. And that is just the way I have been brought up. That is how I have been taught.”

And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Yes. And I have been taught to say who is the saint, and who is not a saint.” But they reconciled. But to avoid any chance of controversy, or confrontation, or conflict, Prabhupāda said, “Okay we won’t have any discussions. We will just read from the Kṛṣṇa book.” So for a while we just read from the Kṛṣṇa book, no arguments. And then eventually things came back to normal.

I guess we will just end here; it is a limitless ocean. You could just keep going forever in any direction somehow this is where we have ended up. So we will just stop here for now. Are there any questions or comments?

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Yes a good question. He is asking that there are some gurus who tell their followers to chant two or three rounds of the Pancha-tattva mantra. Well, based on what Srila Prabhupada had said, some disciples asked Srila Prabhupada, “Why don’t we chant the Pancha-tattva mantra? Why do we even chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra?” And Srila Prabhupada replied that, “We chant Hare Krishna because Lord Chaitanya chanted Hare Krishna and example is more important than precept.”

At the same time he did say that we could chant the Pancha-tattva mantra as much as we wanted. I think we are expected to chant sixteen rounds of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra but if we want to chant the Pancha-tattva mantra, there is no harm. And some of the devotees told me when I first joined that in some kirtans in Srila Prabhupada’s presence that they had just chanted the Pancha-tattva mantra. They never got beyond it to chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. And Srila Prabhupada didn’t stop them, he didn’t interrupt them and tell them to chant Hari Krishna. He let the whole kirtan go just with the chanting of the Pancha-tattva mantra. But not that we chant the Pancha-tattva mantra and not the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. And I know our godbrother Bhurijana Prabhu was very strong on this point. And I have seen many even classes, sing Jaya Radha-Madhava and Hare Krishna, but he will chant a lot of Nitai-Gauranga because he is very convinced of that. And you can feel it. If you really chant with full heart, Nitai-Gauranga, Nitai-Gauranga, you feel ecstatic. Your consciousness is purified, and then in the end, you can chant Hare Krishna.

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: This is a very relevant question. Because I have been thinking of the same question that I almost brought it up with Maharaja, but I didn’t, but now I have the chance. Maharaja listens to a lot of tapes. And you can see how knowledgeable he is from his comments. Because he has heard a lot, and read a lot. And I was thinking, I should read more? I should hear more. It would help me to give class better. And then our dear temple president, Gaurasundara, and the other good devotees and friends have kept me very busy here. Not just with the morning and evening programs but with programs during the day. And then, there wasn’t much time to to read. But I thought, people are coming or people are inviting us and we have to reciprocate with them. And of course it is also your kindness. But it seems that the classes were fairly well received; not too bad.

So then I thought of this one time when I was with Srila Prabhupada in his room in Calcutta. And at that time as a matter of fact, I was very concerned because I didn’t have time to read. We were so busy with service in India. In the early days I didn’t have time to read, but I didn’t say anything. It was just in my mind. And Srila Prabhupada quoted the verse, naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu / nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā, that, by serving the person bhāgavata or by reading the book Bhāgavata, one gets the same result. That, all that is troublesome in the heart becomes destroyed, almost to nil, and transcendental love and service to the Lord has established this irrevocable fact. So Srila Prabhupada quoted the verse and he said, “If you serve the person bhāgavata, and you never read the book Bhāgavata you still get the same result. All the truths of the book Bhāgavata will be revealed to you.” So that gave me some consolation, that just keep serving Srila Prabhupada and his devotees and, the truths of the book Bhāgavata will be revealed. And I did also feel some encouragement when after a Friday morning’s class, Nityananda-Trayodasi Maharaja mentioned that the class I gave was quite similar to the way Srila Prabhupada would often speak on Nityananda-Trayodasi, which I didn’t know.

So then I thought, “Well maybe it is that; serving the person bhāgavata, serving Srila Prabhupada.” But certainly we should want to read. Some of our godbrothers they are so busy, they get time to read but they want to. Shouldn’t be apathetic to the scriptures. But in spite of wanting to read, if we are so busy in serving Srila Prabhupada, serving guru and Gauranga that we don’t have time, then the same knowledge can be revealed to us. Of course, we should read and there may be time that we spend on other things besides guru sevā, that is more or less a waste of time or not so important. So yes, we don’t. . . So anyway, somehow we have to find the right balance. And again, what the right balance is for one person might not be the same for someone else. Maharaja?

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Men of power have no time to read, but men who don’t read are are unfit for power. That is good.

Devotee: I was reminded how another thing that you were saying, about certain person was the same people. So it comes down to does this person want me to about reading [Unintelligible]