Darshan Srila Prabhupada Quarters

Giriraj Swami: [Unintelligible 00:00:02] I was in Srila Prabhupada’s tent at the Khumba-mela in 1977 and she (Govinda Dasi) wrote a letter telling him about how the Tulasi plants were flourishing. He said that she has done a great service, it is the perfection of her sadhana. And then, when I came here to recuperate one time, as I gradually got better, I was able to move around a little more. So, I came to sit with Srila Prabhupada in the garden. And I was just looking at Srila Prabhupada, and suddenly, his face lit up and his eyes opened wide, and I looked, and someone was bringing in Tulasi-devi. And he said, “Just by the presence of Tulasi-devi, the whole atmosphere becomes sanctified.” But coincidentally, at the same time I was here to recuperate when Srila Prabhupada’s dear friend from Bombay also came to visit. He was traveling around America, and he ended up here when Srila Prabhupada was here, Brijratan Mohatta. Before the partition, I understand he was the richest man in what later became Pakistan. He was married to R. D. Birla’s daughter. The Birlas were the richest family in India. He was very intelligent, and people used to come all over to consult Mr. Mohatta about business and different matters. And he became very friendly with Srila Prabhupada, and he was very aware of what people were thinking and saying in general and about us, and he would tell Srila Prabhupada.

So, when he came here, he mentioned that people had the idea that this was a closed club, that you had to be a member in order to participate. And Srila Prabhupada said, “Yes. Therefore, I wanted them to keep the church sanctuary the way it was, so that people would understand they can just come in as they are, with their shoes, sit down and hear some philosophy.” Because in most places outside India, Srila Prabhupada was the first to establish temples and deities. And then later, other organizations began. So, in England, Mr. Mohatta told Srila Prabhupada that they had opened a temple, that they had called: Hindu Radha-Krishna temple. And Prabhupada was so upset. He said, “What does that mean, ‘Hindu Radha-Krishna temple’? Are there Muslim Radha-Krishna temples?” [laughter] But Mr. Mohatta was very impressed [Unintelligible 00:04:47]. And because he was so intelligent, he could be critical, not in a malicious way, but he could just see faults. But he was very impressed, he really liked the way the devotees would chant the Sanskrit, responsively in class. He told Prabhupada [Unintelligible 00:05:10], you are teaching them everything. And he had told us that we should pay attention, so that by the time the Sanskrit recitation is over, we have memorized the sloka through the class of the day.

And, at the time, Prabhupada had so many projects. At the time, there was the ‘In God We Trust’ party. So, that would come up on morning walks, and then discussions with the scientists, Life Comes from Life. So, just before I was to leave after spending some weeks here to recover, I came to see Srila Prabhupada, and he was taking his massage right there, in that room, just almost facing through the doorway, a little to the side. But basically, I could see him through the doorway and converse with him. And, I was so inspired by the scientific preaching and Life Comes from Life. I started in the mood. . .Of course, when I was here, so many devotees were trying to recruit me for different services. One idea was that I should become the editor of Back to Godhead, and Srila Prabhupada said, “No, Giriraj has too many plans in Bombay.” But anyway, I myself was enlivened by this idea of defeating the scientist. So, I asked Srila Prabhupada, when we speak to them, should we speak to them like he does, like, fools, rascals, kick them in the face with boots. [laughter] And Srila Prabhupada said, “No, you should speak like a gentleman.” [laughter] So, I mentioned the idea of me participating, he said, “Well, your field is psychology,” because I majored in psychology, “Your field is psychology.” He was just very blissful, kept on smiling.

But it was getting later and later and my father was waiting downstairs to take me to the airport, and I knew it was getting later, but it was hard to pull myself away from Srila Prabhupada. And I also had a bit of a naive idea that Krishna would tell him, Krishna in the heart would tell him when it is time to send me out to catch my flight. And once, that came up in Bombay. It so happened that Prabhupada was resting, and it was time for a program, and I didn’t want to wake Prabhupada up, and I was thinking, “Well, Krishna in the heart will wake him up.” And Prabhupada got up, by the time we reached the place, to speak to the [Unintelligible 00:09:43]. So, I asked Tamal Krishna Goswami, because he was Srila Prabhupada’s secretary, [Unintelligible 00:09:57]. He said, “No, it is not like that. As a service, you might have to wake him up [Unintelligible 00:10:09].”

So anyway, it was getting later and later, and eventually, this came in my heart that, “I better get going. Otherwise, I am going to be late.” And as I was walking down the stairs here, that long flight of stairs, Satsvarupa Maharaja was coming up, and I have known him for so many years because he was the temple president in Boston when I joined. And, I was just so elated, and I said, “I was just with Srila Prabhupada and he said this and that, it was so blissful.” And Satsvarupa Maharaja knew my father from Boston a little, so he told me, “Your father is downstairs and he is fuming. And he says, ‘If Glenn doesn’t get down here in the next five minutes, I am leaving for the airport without him.’” [laughter] Because they had their own flight to catch. And I just told Satsvarupa Maharaja about my blissful meeting with Srila Prabhupada, and he said, “Well, that is the difference between a spiritual father and the material father.” [laughter] That was nice.

There is one story I always think about, I wasn’t there personally but Brahmananda Prabhu told, he was with Prabhupada here when he first moved into his quarters after the devotees had fixed them up. And Brahmananda said, “Prabhupada, these quarters are just like heaven.” And Prabhupada said, “What heaven? They are like Vaikuntha. They are Vaikuntha.” But Devahuti, coming back to the story of Sri Hridayananda Maharaja’s mother and how Prabhupada told her about Devahuti and Kapila. The artist Devahuti, her daughter joined first. The daughter was named Indulekha. And when the press moved from New York to Boston. . .You mentioned that the property here was the first that ISKCON purchased that had separate quarters for Prabhupada, which is true, but the first property that ISKCON ever owned was in Boston. It was a big house; it had been a mortuary. But anyway, it was a very big house and the basement, ground floor; over here we say first floor, second floor.

Devotee: Is that the one in Alston?

Giriraj Swami: Alston was the store front, 95 Glendale Avenue, and then from there, we moved to this really big mansion. It was the next suburb to Alston.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:13:43]

Giriraj Swami: The big house or the. . .? Oh, really?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:13:48]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is right, that is right.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:13:53]

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Yes, so we got that, and then Prabhupada wanted to move the press from New York to our own place. And we had all our plans, “This is going to be the prasādam room, this will be the temple room,” and then suddenly, Prabhupada took away one whole floor, so we had to adjust our plans. So, Indulekha’s husband Sacisuta was with the press. So they came, and eventually, Devahuti came to visit with her daughter, and we did not know how to deal with it. I don’t think anyone in the movement was over thirty, and most were, eighteen to twenty-two, and we didn’t know, we just didn’t know. And so, Prabhupada said, “You should treat her as your mother.” I think what he said was, “You should treat her like you would treat me, with great respect.” Prabhupada really encouraged her artwork, and some devotees have, it is just maybe an opinion, but Surab the architect, quite an artistic person, quite an intelligent person, he felt his style was ideal because it was realistic enough so you got the sense that it wasn’t some just some artwork, but it had a little bit of an enchanted quality, so that you feel it is real but it is not quite earthly like an ordinary realistic art. Prabhupada did encourage her a lot.

I had a lot of complications coming from India. I was in this room downstairs. I guess it has been expanded to be the pujari area, but it used to be a tulasi. . . They would keep the tulasi down there, and there were a couple of guest rooms. Yes, once Prabhupada [Unintelligible 00:17:13], and that was a big thing. And sort of a side complication that was very painful, I had these, like a car bumper [Unintelligible 00:17:28], cluster of boils that was really painful. And Prabhupada came and he started to keep track, and he came up with a formula, I guess based on his experience as a pharmacist, came up with a formula for a remedy. It helped. There are many stories of how loving and caring Srila Prabhupada was, and they are true. I have told many of them myself, so devotees know, but he also had his mission. When, after a little while here, and I wasn’t really recovering enough to go back to India, but he started to put the pressure on me to go back, but I knew I couldn’t. I just knew I wasn’t well enough so I would just get sick again. But then, he took off the pressure.

And later, Karandhara Prabhu told me that in the initial stage, Prabhupada was getting letters from Tamal Krishna Goswami in Bombay. We were working closely together; he was the GBC and I was the temple president. And so, Prabhupada told Karandhara, which I found out later, that, “Tamal cannot function without Giriraj.” But then, maybe two weeks later, he got another letter and, Tamal was doing better on his own then. And then, after that, Prabhupada sort of relaxed. But he did give a strong hint here in the room. I don’t remember what led up to it, but something like, he was saying, “Tamal is missing. . .” Something like that. And he used this phrase, “Back home, back to Bombay,” [laughter] which obviously, rang with, “Back home, back to Godhead.” It was sort of like. . . Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:20:55]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I was part of the first group. Earlier, we saw the record cover for In Every Town and Village, and on the back, there are the scenes of hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana in different places. So I checked, and there was one of our party in Surat, that was an amazing experience. But yes, I was in that picture.

Devotee: There is a video of Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, there is. That was amazing, it was amazing. I think we should hear from Mukunda Datta Prabhu. I might add a note here that Mukunda Datta Prabhu, he knows Bengali and Sanskrit and Brajbhasha, and he is an important person for the future of translation. When we were standing in front of the bookcase with all of those old books of qualified gurus, I was thinking, “What a responsible service.” Like Prabhupada’s, not only personal service, but main service, one of his main services, to translate the books. So, Mukunda Datta Prabhu is one of our best hopes for the future of translation. So, Mukunda Datta Prabhu. [laughter]

Mukunda Datta Prabhu: I remember I grew up here. I was just a few blocks away. So, I don’t really remember the first time I came here, but I used to come here frequently when I was a kid. Anyway, once I came here, this was later on, I was eighteen and Sāndrānanda our Godbrother called me up. I went to a school in the north and he told me Srila Prabhupada is coming, you should see him. He was quoting all these verses of association with a pure devotee. I took his advice and with some physical feat, I actually caused a lot of other people some problems, but I made it here to see Srila Prabhupada. I heard him give the Shrimad Bhāgavatam in the morning – it was part of the Ajamila narration, it was 1976. I had trouble with the accent of course, but I heard him. The main thing was his presence to me, it was very stunning, because he was like the sun. He looked like the Sun God walking into the room. Even though he was very small in stature but he had this commanding presence which instantly polarized everything within his proximity. So, I saw him in that capacity offering flowers, Guru Puja, Shrimad Bhāgavatam class, like that.

I don’t think I could take that much advantage of his association; I was mostly trained by those who did. There is a kind of sweetness in that that isn’t available otherwise, so in that respect I am more fortunate. I remember trying to offer Srila Prabhupada some flowers when he was in his car, it was an awkward moment, but Srila Prabhupada took the flowers and he drove away. That was really the only personal seva that I got to do other than hearing. That was thirty years ago, but within those decades since then I have come to appreciate the great wealth that we have in our movement still in the form of these devotees who did have this association very closely and who were trained up personally by Srila Prabhupada and who can benefit us in so many ways that the rest of us will never be able to duplicate because we didn’t have that training. So, that is what ever little realization I had, that’s what it is and I am so fortunate to be in the midst of such great souls. They won’t be here forever.

Giriraj Swami: I remembered a lovely story about newspapers yesterday. I was speaking with one devotee who was in New Vrindavan in 1972. Prabhupada wanted to have bhāgavata-dharma discourses all over the United States, as we have had in the pandal programs in India; like a very big gathering in New Vrindavan for Janmashtami and Vyasa-puja. And a reporter from The New York Times came to interview Srila Prabhupada. And when the devotees brought him in to meet Srila Prabhupada and introduced him, Srila Prabhupada said, “The New York Times, I have seen your newspaper, it is very thick. But I must ask you, after people read it, what do they do with it? It ends up in the trash.” And then, he had a copy of his Bhagavad-gītā As It Is published by Macmillan on his table, and he said, “This is also a thick book, but people will never throw this in the trash, this will go on forever.” And the interviewer really liked what Prabhupada said. He didn’t take offense or anything. I remember when the article came out in The New York Times, a very favorable article with a nice big picture of Prabhupada.

Well, maybe I will just conclude with two little stories about dancing and kirtan. You mentioned how Prabhupada had said, “If we chant like the children, we will go back to Godhead.” So, when Srila Prabhupada first entered the agreement for the Juhu land and was leaving Bombay, before any of the complications had begun, we arranged the room for him at the Santa Cruz airport in Bombay, the VIP room, so just us and Srila Prabhupada in the room. And there was an ecstatic kirtan. I think Madhudvisa Prabhu led it. And after the kirtan, Srila Prabhupada said, “If you just go on having kirtans like this, you will be completely successful.” And then later, there were so many complications with the land, the landlord and different friends of his, and politics, were trying to actually cheat Srila Prabhupada out of the land, keep the money, get paid. And I would go in the morning to Bombay, by bus and train; it was really crowded and hot, and come back. And we wouldn’t eat when we were out. They did sell these little cones, they would take a piece of newspaper and roll it into a cone and fill it with peanuts, that would be our meal for the day.

So one day, we went out, and as usual, I think that day we had more hopes, but as usual, we didn’t have any success. So, we came back, hot, tired, hungry. And by then, Prabhupada was already giving the evening class, and there was kirtan in the temple, and pretty much everyone else was dancing, but me and my partner, we weren’t. And then, after the kirtan, when Prabhupada was speaking, one of the first things he said was, “You must always dance in the kirtan, even if you don’t get the permission for the temple.” [laughter] As others have commented, you can feel Srila Prabhupada’s presence, and more so in the association of devotees who have realizations of his mercy and presence. And these occasions: Prabhupada’s appearance day, disappearance day, the annual Prabhupada festival, the Memorial Day, we can have very special chances for us to come together and increase our appreciation of him and our resolve to serve him and his mission. And I think maybe more than any other. . . I don’t know, but today in particular, right now after hearing you talk, I am really feeling how universal Prabhupada’s presence is, how universal his mercy is. It is not just for disciples or grand disciples or members of ISKCON or Gaudiya Vaishnavas, it is really for everyone, every living entity.

But one of my godsisters who was in the Boston temple when I joined, Jahnava dasi, she told me that she had asked Srila Prabhupada that, “When we chant Hare Krishna, should we think of the welfare of every living entity?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Oh, you can think of every living entity? You just think of Krishna, and He will think of every living entity.” [laughter]

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Devotee: Maharaja, one pastime in the Līlāmṛta, I think it is in Gorakhpur, the devotees were there and they were doing kirtan, and you were saying that hundreds or thousands of people were dancing in the street. Were you there at that time?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. I believe that was in Surat.

Devotee: Surat? Could you describe that a little bit? [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: In some ways, it was the most extraordinary experience I ever had. The whole city was enlivened with Krishna consciousness. At intervals, we would go down the street and people would come out with ārati trays, they would offer ārati, they would garland us. We were so weighed down by the garlands, we didn’t even know what to do with them, and they would drape sarees across the roadways in a festive mood. And it became such a thing, one day the mayor had to declare a public holiday so that people could be free to join, because they were joining anyway, they weren’t attending their work, it was such a big thing. And one devotee mentioned there is video footage of it. You could probably get a sense from that, but it was just, it was extraordinary, extraordinary, just the devotion in the whole city. And, most of the time, Srila Prabhupada just sent us, he didn’t accompany us, but they received us, in such a way. And I remember once, we would go on hari-nāma, and then this huge crowd would start to follow us and come back with us, and they came back with us to the house where Srila Prabhupada and the devotees were staying. They wanted [Unintelligible 01:02:50]. And they wanted Prabhupada’s darshan. Prabhupada, he was quite serious about his work, and he wasn’t prone to like gestures, but they were just on the street, this restless crowd of eager worshipers. [laughter] I think Malati Prabhu was inside with Srila Prabhupada. She looked out, and she told Srila Prabhupada what was on the street. So, then Srila Prabhupada came out on the balcony, and I would compare him to the pope, coming out and giving audience, but it was far more than that, far greater than that. But that is a whole other chapter, but it is an extraordinary chapter.

Devotee: Where you also there when Srila Prabhupada went into trance when he was chanting Jaya Radha Madhava?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that was in Gorakhpur, famous incident.

Devotee: What kind of experience was it?

Giriraj Swami: Well, when Prabhupada went into that mood, the devotees became very hushed, out of respect and awe. I wouldn’t say it put us into trance, but we definitely became very attentive to Srila Prabhupada because we knew he was in a high state of transcendental ecstasy. But maybe to bring the conversation down more to our level, I can tell another story from Gorakhpur. Srila Prabhupada was speaking about Ajamila. And I think Hansadutta Prabhu, on his own, went up to Srila Prabhupada and said, “Srila Prabhupada, that was a wonderful talk that you gave.” Prabhupada said, “Oh, you think so?” He said, “Yes.” And then Srila Prabhupada said, “And what about the other disciples, what do they think?” And Hansadutta said, “Well, frankly speaking, Srila Prabhupada, a lot of them were sleeping during your talk.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “I know.” And he said, “Practically, I am speaking just for a few sincere disciples.” The evening classes were more for the public, they would come. And in the morning, it was just a few devotees. And devotees were falling asleep in the class. And it is just a small room, half the size of this. And, Prabhupada said, “You all are falling asleep. What is the solution?” So, one disciple said, “Well, we have to take rest earlier.” Another one said, “We shouldn’t eat at night.” And those are both good recommendations. And sometimes in India we would eat at night, our hosts would. But Prabhupada said, “You have to be convinced that Krishna consciousness is more important than anything else, including sleeping. Then you will stay awake.”

And, I don’t know if it was the same morning, maybe it was the same morning. The disciples were falling asleep, and Prabhupada, he manifested himself like a lion, so much energy, it is just to shake us out of our ignorance, and it worked. And it was such a powerful display of energy we pretty much had to wake up. [laughter] And I mentioned to Tamal Krishna Goswami that, “That was powerful. At least we woke up.” [laughter] He said, “Yes.” But he said, “That wasn’t us, that was Prabhupada.”

So, I guess it is the beauty of Krishna consciousness, the mystery that Prabhupada has given us the vision of the highest perfection, and he himself exhibited the highest perfection. And I don’t mean necessarily by his ecstatic emotions, but just by just complete absorption in Krishna consciousness and in the mission of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. And at the same time, we have our bodies and minds and our conditioning. And of course, Kali-yuga is really bad, it is very hard to do anything good in Kali-yuga, it is so bad. So, we should be aware of that side of life as well. But still, ultimately, the power of what Srila Prabhupada gave us and the power of his mercy is enough to overcome all the obstacles, to uplift us. But we do have to work also.

Once, during this period when we didn’t have any of our own centers, for a while, we were staying at a Rama mandir in Chembur, in Bombay. And one man came and was praying, “Swamiji, Swamiji, please save me, only you can save me, please save me.” And Prabhupada looked at him and said, “I cannot save you. You have to save yourself, but I can give you the method by which you can save yourself.” But of course, ultimately, Prabhupada can save us just by his mercy, but he wants us to make the effort. He doesn’t want us to just do nothing and wait for him to save us. I think the combination of our honest endeavors, praying for his mercy and making honest endeavors in our practices and expecting his mercy, we will be successful.

Devotee: What you just said is applicable to all aspects of devotional service, that we should make a strong effort.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. But the effort is more positive, it is the same type of thing. Once, one disciple asked Srila Prabhupada, “How can I control my mind?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “You cannot control your mind. But you chant Hare Krishna and think of Lord Chaitanya’s mission, then Lord Chaitanya will control your mind.” Positive approach.

Devotee: And we can use that advice, what you just said about thinking about Lord Chaitanya’s mission to get rid of some anarthas with the mind and senses?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the primary process is to chant, hear, and remember. The secondary process is to make efforts to deal with our anarthas. Yes, if we are really intensely absorbed in chanting and hearing, the process itself will burn up our material desires. But usually, because of our material desires, we are not able to be so fully absorbed all the time, most devotees, many devotees. And we should not give in to our lower urges. Say we have a problem with anger, for example. Yes, the positive method is to chant, saṅkīrtana, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, that is a positive method. But we also have to make an effort not to give in to that tendency to lose our temper, especially when we are dealing with other devotees. They may be family members even, but still, they are devotees. We should make an effort to control our temper, for example. We have to make that effort at the same time. Because if we give in, it is true, we can’t be too severe with ourselves, we have to judge. But still, we do have to make an effort to control the lower self with the higher self. We can’t just give in to our passions or, lower tendencies. But still, that is the secondary process, and the primary process is to really chant and hear and remember, be engaged in positive service, pray for mercy, sincerely pray for mercy to overcome the difficulty.

Devotee: So, we need a higher taste to overcome the lower one.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is the key, the higher taste. If you are relishing Krishna consciousness, why do you want to waste time bickering over small things, whatever, pursuing some illusory pleasure. I am sure you know all these things, you are probably asking for the sake of others, to create some opportunity for discussion. [laughter]

Devotee: I am just relishing your association and wise words of wisdom.

Giriraj Swami: I do think it is important that we are realistic about ourselves and humble, because even though we have the highest philosophy and the perfect process, it doesn’t mean we are better than others. Yes, we are fortunate that we have this knowledge and we have this opportunity, but it doesn’t mean we have actually realized it. Now, it doesn’t mean we have realized Krishna in Vrindavan or the mercy of Gaura-Nitai. We have had some realization but not full realization. So, we should be humble. Yes, we are blessed by Prabhupada’s instructions, by ISKCON, by Prabhupada’s mercy, by the association of devotees, by so many things. But to what extent have we really taken advantage? To what extent are we here for a free ride? Because we can come along for a free ride, but we are not going to get that far. We have to work too, do our own work, internal work or external work. And Prabhupada’s love and mercy will prevail.

Devotee: Could you repeat what you just said?

Giriraj Swami: Prabhupada’s love and mercy will prevail. I do think we should end, it is nine o’clock, maṅgala-ārati is at 4:30, for some people at least. [laughter] And we should try to be regulated, Prabhupada was very regulated. There can be exceptions, there can be emergencies, but I think we should. Say that again louder?

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami ki jaya!