BG 7.16 – Become a Pure Devotee by Association

Giriraj Swami: So, we shall read one verse from Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Chapter Seven, “Knowledge of the Absolute,” Text 16.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Chapter Seven, “Knowledge of the Absolute,”

TEXT 16

catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ

janāḥ su-kṛtino ‘rjuna

ārto jijñāsur arthārthī

jñānī ca bharatarṣabha

TRANSLATION

O best among the Bhāratas, four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me – the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Unlike the miscreants, these are adherents of the regulative principles of the scriptures, and they are called su-kṛtinaḥ, or those who obey the rules and regulations of scriptures, the moral and social laws, and are, more or less, devoted to the Supreme Lord. Out of these there are four classes of men – those who are sometimes distressed, those who are in need of money, those who are sometimes inquisitive, and those who are sometimes searching after knowledge of the Absolute Truth. These persons come to the Supreme Lord for devotional service under different conditions. These are not pure devotees, because they have some aspiration to fulfill in exchange for devotional service. Pure devotional service is without aspiration and without desire for material profit. The Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu (1.1.11) defines pure devotion thus:

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama

“One should render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa favorably and without desire for material profit or gain through fruitive activities or philosophical speculation. That is called pure devotional service.”

When these four kinds of persons come to the Supreme Lord for devotional service and are completely purified by the association of a pure devotee, they also become pure devotees. As far as the miscreants are concerned, for them devotional service is very difficult because their lives are selfish, irregular and without spiritual goals. But even some of them, by chance, when they come in contact with a pure devotee, also become pure devotees.

Those who are always busy with fruitive activities come to the Lord in material distress and at that time associate with pure devotees and become, in their distress, devotees of the Lord. Those who are simply frustrated also come sometimes to associate with the pure devotees and become inquisitive to know about God. Similarly, when the dry philosophers are frustrated in every field of knowledge, they sometimes want to learn of God, and they come to the Supreme Lord to render devotional service and thus transcend knowledge of the impersonal Brahman and the localized Paramātmā and come to the personal conception of Godhead by the grace of the Supreme Lord or His pure devotee. On the whole, when the distressed, the inquisitive, the seekers of knowledge, and those who are in need of money are free from all material desires, and when they fully understand that material remuneration has nothing to do with spiritual improvement, they become pure devotees. As long as such a purified stage is not attained, devotees in transcendental service to the Lord are tainted with fruitive activities, the search for mundane knowledge, etc. So one has to transcend all this before one can come to the stage of pure devotional service.

Giriraj Swami: So, there is a saying, a common saying, “Good is the enemy of the best.” Have you ever heard this saying? “Good is the enemy of the best.” In other words, we might be doing something good, but if we are attached to the good thing that we are doing and are not ready to move on to something better, the so-called good thing becomes the enemy of the better thing. So, the verse here describes pious people who begin to render devotional service to Krishna with various motives. I can imagine someone sitting in the audience and hearing the first paragraph and feeling quite good about himself or herself, Oh, I am pious, I am pious, I follow the rules and regulations of the scriptures, I am regulated in my habits of eating and drinking and work and recreation. And then, when we read one of the categories among the pious people, that they desire wealth, well, we could easily say, “Oh, that is me, I am one of the pious people who desires wealth and feel very good about oneself.” [laughter] But then, when we get to the second paragraph where Srila Prabhupada explains that the goal is not to be a pious person and lead a rich life with pious activities in devotional service, the goal is actually to become free from all other motives, and desire only to serve Krishna, one might think, Oh, too bad, too bad. That is not so easy.

Of course, we are not interested in artificially increasing or decreasing our standard of living. When we read that one should have no material motives, one should have no material desire, either to be relieved of distress or to gain wealth or to satisfy one’s curiosity or even to have some knowledge of spirit and matter, it doesn’t mean that we are renouncing these things. We are not trying to get them, and we are not in the mood to reject them. We are not interested. Our interest is in Krishna and Krishna consciousness, devotional service to Krishna. So, if you are afraid that the statement that one should transcend the desire for whatever, relief from distress or wealth, that it means that you are going to have to be full of distress or without wealth and think, Oh well, maybe this isn’t for me after all, that is really not what we are saying either. What we are saying is that, as Krishna says at the end of the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. “Give up all varieties of religiousness and just surrender unto me.” There are verses in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the First Canto, spoken by Sri Narada Muni. And in the Seventh Canto spoken by Sri Prahlada Maharaja to the effect that whatever happiness and distress are due to us, will come to us without us making any separate effort. If we ask anyone, “Do you want distress?” The person will say, “No.” Do you go to the temple to pray to God to give you distress? “No,” nobody goes to pray for distress. But distress comes of its own accord. We don’t make any effort but it comes.

So, in the same way, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says, in the same way that distress comes of its own, without us making any effort, similarly, happiness will come on its own, without us making any effort. Both will come according to our destiny. Both will come according to our past activities or karma. Now, does it mean that we should not make an effort to avoid oncoming traffic when we are crossing the street? Does it mean that we shouldn’t make an effort to earn our livelihood because we will get whatever is destined to us? No. We take normal precautions to keep the body and soul together, that is not against pure devotional service. And we also make normal efforts, according to our position in society, varnashrama-dharma, we also make efforts to maintain ourselves in a way appropriate to our position in society. We do that, but still, we cannot go beyond our destiny, we cannot get more happiness than is destined to us materially, and we will not get more distress than we are destined to suffer, they are already ordained. And the effort to go beyond our quota of happiness or distress will lead to nothing but frustration because we cannot go beyond our allotted quota.

Srila Prabhupada explained that in Indian languages, the word for ‘forehead’ and the word for ‘destiny’ are the same. And therefore, when people lament their bad luck, they go like this, it is the same as their forehead. You know this method? [laughter] Everyone knows this. So, there is a saying, because in the old days in India, Calcutta was the biggest city, everyone wanted to go to Calcutta. They thought if they go to Calcutta, they will make their fortune. It is like now people in India think, Oh, if I go to America, I will make my fortune. So, then they thought, If I go to Calcutta, I will make my fortune. So, there was a saying, that even if you go to Calcutta, your destiny will go with you. In other words, you can’t escape your destiny by fleeing to Calcutta, your destiny will go, your forehead will go with you. That is the sort of play on words. That even if you go to Calcutta, your forehead will go with you, meaning your destiny. So, it happens.

There is a story in Persian literature, there is a similar story in the Puranas, quoted in one version of the Hitopadeśa. But anyway, the one from Persian literature, it is the same point, that a rich man sent his servant into the marketplace to buy some things in Baghdad. And there, in the bazaar, the servant bumped into death personified, and he felt like death personified had jostled him and was looking at him in a menacing way. So, he was terrified, so he ran back to his master, he told him what happened in the marketplace, and he discussed with the master, he decided he would flee to Samara to escape death. So later, the master went to the bazaar to complete the work, and he also saw death personified there. And he said to death personified, “Why did you jostle my servant? You terrified him. And you looked at him in such a menacing way.” And he said, “I didn’t look at him in a menacing way, I was just surprised to see him in Baghdad because I have an appointment with him this afternoon in Samara.” [laughter] So, we can’t escape, we can’t escape our destiny.

So, given that our happiness and enjoyment are already ordained for us, why should we engage in extraordinary activities or inordinate efforts to avoid distress, to increase our wealth or whatever? That is the idea, that what is destined to us will come anyway. So, our valuable energy, human energy, which has more highly developed consciousness than the animals, more highly developed intelligence that can understand spiritual matters, why should we engage that valuable energy and ability to increase our material happiness or decrease our material distress, which in effect is the same as what the animals do? Why should we do that? We are missing the point of human life. The point of human life is to engage in pure devotional service, because pure devotional service will actually carry us beyond the material world, into the spiritual kingdom of God where pure devotees serve Krishna in direct relationships.

One incident comes to mind now when I was in India. I served in India for many years; I was based there for almost thirty years. And so, one year, we discussed and so, His Holiness Lokanath Swami and I decided to visit his village in Maharashtra, a very small village called Aragdae in Sangli district. And at the time, I don’t know now, at the time, there was no electricity in the village. And most of the villagers were farmers, and they basically grew what they needed to eat, and some of the ones who had more land sold crops to sell. And Lokanath Swami’s family, I think was quite well to do as far as the village goes, they grew grapes, sugar cane. I think it began with sugar cane, and then grapes became more popular. So, there is no electricity, there was no plumbing in the house. Now, I had heard when I first joined that Srila Prabhupada said that a civilization can be judged by how far the stool house is from the residence. Now, we think we are advanced because we have it right next to the kitchen. [laughter] That is really advanced. But Srila Prabhupada said the further it is, the more advanced. So, they didn’t really have one, I think that was even another level. [laughter] They would just go into the fields with a lota, and that was really quite pleasant. And then, they would grow grains and vegetables, and whatever we ate was just grown by them, grown on their own land, and it was really tasty. Srila Prabhupada said, “That is the opulence of farm life, the good prasādam.”

And we went at a hot time of the year; it was very hot. No electricity, no fans, but they would fan themselves with something. And you can imagine no electricity, no radio, no television. In those days, people didn’t have computers. So, what did they do all day? Well, they spent time with other people. They got together and they talked, they had relationships. I remember how the relationships in Bombay, which was the most advanced city in India, how the relationships deteriorated when television came, it was amazing. We acquired, Srila Prabhupada acquired some property in Juhu, and just behind Juhu was a very posh, suburban development called the Juhu Scheme. And we would go door to door. We just had the land and a pandal and a few tents, we didn’t have a proper temple yet. So, we would go to the people, we would go door-to-door, and people would receive us so eagerly. They would invite us in, ask us to sit down, offer us something to drink, fruit, sometimes savory, sweet, depending what they had, and we would talk about Bhagavad-gītā and Krishna consciousness.

Then, after some months, television arrived. But because they still had the culture, we would come, knock on the door, ring the bell. They would immediately turn off the television and receive us just the way they used to. But after maybe another two months, it was like they thought a minute, Should we invite them in? They would invite us in, they would still invite us in, and they would turn down the television. [laughter] And it wasn’t too bad. Then, maybe after another two months, because by then the children were addicted, if they made a move to turn off the television or turn down the sound, the children would object. So, then they would take us into the back room somewhere, where we wouldn’t disturb the children. And then, after another six months, it was, “Swamiji, now is not a good time. Can you call me at the office?” It was like it was all gone; the whole culture was gone. And I don’t think it is specifically because we were devotees, I think that the television became the center of their life.

And so, it was a great contrast, when I went to Aragdae to see that the relationships between the people was the most important thing to them. They didn’t have these other diversions, and there was no night life as such. The nightlife was that the village would gather in front of. . . Well, when we came the first time, so many people wanted to attend our program, we did it in the village square, which is really just a cleared area. The houses were wood, very simple. But even other times when we went, not with a big group, I think once it was just me and Lokanath Swami and maybe one or two others, it was the same idea. There was nothing else for people to do in the evening, so we would go to the temple and there were steps, like a platform where it served as a stage where we sat. And then, in the open space, the villagers would sit, we would have kirtan and discuss Bhagavad-gītā. And Srila Prabhupada says that is what the life in India was like when he grew up. He mentioned that he had an uncle that lived outside of Calcutta, and they would go to visit him in, I guess, a horse-drawn carriage, and every night, there would be some discourse or performance of Ramayana, Mahabharata. And that would be in the people’s minds. And he remembered, he would get in the carriage with his parents, he was just a small child, and he would fall asleep thinking of this drama he saw of rāma-līlā or kṛṣṇa-līlā and dream of Krishna. That was the culture, and people were happy, they didn’t need all this economic development.

But as Srila Prabhupada often said, “We are not trying to turn the clock back.” Although Krishna might turn the clock back. With all the articles we read about the supply of oil running out or running low, it may be that cheap fossil fuel may not exist in. . . Well, the estimates range, about twenty years, forty years, sixty years, may not exist. So, then we will go back to a simpler life, which would probably be better for people. The values now are very artificial; the way of life is very artificial. And there are many other factors that could set us back, so to speak, which would actually help us to go forward. So, why be so absorbed with economic development, getting a bigger house, a better car, impressing the neighbors or whatever it is? When just by the simple activities of Krishna consciousness, we can be happy and happier than through sense gratification or mental speculation.

I was surprised, some of you might have heard this story in some form. But when I went to college in my senior year, it was in the Boston area, I met the devotees, I was a seeker and met the devotees and Srila Prabhupada and decided, “This was what I was looking for.” And in the first exchange with Srila Prabhupada, I understood that he was my guru, and I surrendered to him. So, when my father found out what had happened, he basically offered me a million dollars to leave Krishna consciousness and come home. And a million dollars then, in 1969, was a lot. But I didn’t think about it for a moment because to me, the difference was like day and night, just no comparison. And he tried the same thing again a few years later when I was in India. It didn’t really sway me at all. But later, it became something that people would talk about in India. And I was surprised and then I realized, they must not know what Krishna consciousness is. If they really had an experience of Krishna consciousness, they would know that the money doesn’t compare. So, there really is no comparison. And the other thing, as we mentioned earlier, is that whatever we are enjoying now, which is destined to us, may not continue even though we try to hold on to it. We just don’t know, or we may have it.

There is another very interesting anecdote. Eventually in Boston, where I joined, we were negotiating to purchase a house that belonged to a wealthy man, a very wealthy man. And so, when we went to his office to discuss the agreement, or maybe it was even to sign the final document, it was like ten in the morning, it was early, between 8:00 and 10:00. He came in, very well dressed, nice suit, jeweled ring, and he looked like a wreck, he looked like a wreck. Turns out he had been up all night, dealing with something. And he wanted to light himself a cigarette. He was looking in his pockets; in his nice suit, looking in his pockets, no cigarettes. So, he picked up a cigarette butt from his ash tray and lit it, just like a bum on the street might do, pick up a cigarette butt. And I was there with Satsvarupa Maharaja, and afterwards, he commented that, the purport where Srila Prabhupada says that, “They cannot enjoy their wealth,” especially if they acquire wealth by illegal means, they cannot enjoy their wealth. So, he had it, he couldn’t enjoy it, he couldn’t have a good night’s sleep, he couldn’t even have a fresh cigarette. So, the laws of action and reaction, the laws of karma are very subtle and intricate, and we are bound by them, we can’t escape them. We might think that by our hard effort we are getting more than we would otherwise, but we are not really. We do have to put in our effort, it is not that we don’t, but we put in a moderate effort, that will allow us to have time and energy for Krishna consciousness, because that will really take us out of this cycle of birth and death, this samsara.

Now, there are many important words in the verse quoted in the purport, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ. That verse is considered the paribhāṣā-sūtra of Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. The paribhāṣā-sūtra means the one verse that is the essence of the whole work, or it governs all the other verses in the entire work. And the whole Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu is about pure devotional service. It is volumes; chapters and chapters and chapters and chapters; it is all about pure devotional service. So, one of the words is ānukūl, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ, ānukūl means favorable. And this is a very important word. Favorable means that we cannot just offer Krishna whatever we want and expect Him to accept it. We have to offer Krishna what He wants, which means we have to know what Krishna wants. And we know what Krishna wants from sadhu, shastra, and guru. The general principles are in shastra, and the specific application, we may have to hear from guru. For example, in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, that, if you offer Krishna patram, a leaf, flower, fruit, or water with love and devotion, He will accept. He doesn’t ask for any meat, fish, eggs, or any such thing. So we offer Krishna what He wants from those categories, in other words, plant life. So, one devotee asked Srila Prabhupada, “Well, where does it say that Krishna likes laḍḍus? We always like to offer Krishna laḍḍus; where does it say that Krishna likes laḍḍus?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “For that you require a spiritual master.” Because there are details that you may not get from the books. If you go on reading and reading and reading, eventually, you will get more and more details. But just from Bhagavad-gītā or even Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there are details, for that you require spiritual master.

So, we have to know what Krishna wants. And the spiritual master, he is called the transparent via media to Krishna. In other words, we want to serve Krishna but we are unable to serve Krishna directly, so we serve the spiritual master who serves his spiritual master who serves his spiritual master, and it goes all the way back to Krishna through paramparā. Similarly, the knowledge, we want knowledge from Krishna, that also comes to us through paramparā, through the spiritual master or spiritual masters, plural, sadhus; sadhu, shastra, and guru. So, we have to offer them what they want, we have to serve them as they want, not as we want. That is service in a way, but not really service. I will give an exaggerated case. In India, probably you have heard of the Mafatlal family. At the time, they were number three in wealth in India after Birla and Tata. So, there were three brothers, Arvind Mafatlal was the eldest, his son Krishna Chandra is a wonderful devotee in Bombay. And Arvind had a brother. And I went to see the brother in his office, downtown Bombay, and he was a proud and boastful type. That happens quite frequently when people have money and power. They think they know more than they do. So, he was trying to impress me with how pious he was or how religious he was. So, he pulled out this beautiful, silver little box filled with tulasi leaves, and he said, “I don’t even take tea without tulasi.” [laughter] “Wow, I am impressed.” [laughter] It is like, he doesn’t have a clue. He got a bit but he just doesn’t get it, that you can’t just have what you want and whimsically offer it to Krishna, you have to offer Krishna what He wants. It is true, Krishna appreciates offerings with tulasi leaves, but you can’t offer Him tea, you have to offer Him what He wants.

So to us, who have a little knowledge, it is more of a humorous example. But if we examine ourselves, we may find the same tendency. We know we should offer everything to Krishna, but we are attached to something, so in our minds, we try to adjust it as service to Krishna. But is it really favorable? That determines whether it is bhakti, uttamā-bhakti, or not. Is it favorable? There are many so-called bhaktas around. Not to mention names, but there is one that has a large campus near Austin, who claims to be a bhakta. Not just a bhakta, but mahā-bhāgavata. Not just a mahā-bhāgavata, incarnation, incarnation. But what they do there, is it according to sadhu, shastra, and guru? That is the real test. Because he may say, “This is what Krishna wants,” but is it what Krishna wants just because you say so? And therefore, Srila Prabhupada emphasized the central point, sadhu, shastra, and guru; the central point is shastra. We can see in the shastra what does Krishna want. And if we are pure devotees or even trying to become pure devotees, we will offer Krishna what He wants. So, again, another exaggerated example to us, but we have to look in our own hearts, are we really doing this because we think it is what Krishna wants, or are we doing it because we want it, but we want to be devotees, we want people to think we are devotees, we want to think of ourselves as devotees, so it is for Krishna. Now, it can be, like, we are saying, “Good is the enemy of best,” it can be that even within devotional service, there are things that would please Krishna more or less. And it doesn’t mean that just because you are not doing what pleases Krishna the most, that it is not devotional service, but it is just not the service that pleases Him the most.

I had the experience. I had been in Bombay for several years, and we were embroiled in quite a legal and political battle to secure the Juhu land for the Deities, Sri Sri Radha-Rasabihari and Srila Prabhupada. But one of my older godbrothers, a very dynamic preacher, he had been in India in the earlier days, but when the emphasis shifted to these projects in Bombay, Vrindavan, and Mayapur, he was in the West. Anyway, he came through Bombay, and he was really quite a charismatic person, very intelligent, very dynamic. He said, “Giriraj, you are just wasting your time in India. You should come to the West.” And he was thinking, “You should go to the Universities. There are young people there, they will really hear you, you are just wasting your time here.” And in a way, what he said seemed reasonable, and he was an older devotee, but I didn’t want to make my own decision. So, I went to Srila Prabhupada and told him what the older devotee had said. And at the time, Srila Prabhupada was getting his massage, that was one time. At least the men who had that relationship with him could have some time with him and not disturb his translating or other work. So, Srila Prabhupada replied that, “Suppose you are massaging my left leg and you want to massage my right leg, but I want more massaging on my left leg. So, if you massage my right leg, that is also service. But still, I prefer to have more massaging on my left leg.”

So, that was his answer, and I immediately knew what he was saying. Even if for the sake of argument, you consider India to be less important than America, like, he would say the left was less important than the right, but still, at that particular time, Prabhupada wanted to put more effort into India. But he wasn’t saying that you couldn’t go to America, he wasn’t saying it wouldn’t be devotional service if you did, but he was just saying that he would prefer for the masseur to concentrate on the left leg. So, I got my answer. And so, I stayed in India. So, that is a little different than the difference between pious activities and devotional service. This is within devotional service, but some service may be more pleasing than others, but it is all service. And Prabhupada said the same thing about goṣṭhyānandī and bhajanānandī. Within devotional service, a bhajanānandī takes pleasure in his own performance of Krishna consciousness, of his own performance of bhajana. He may go, when invited, to speak, but his main interest is in his own bhajana. And goṣṭhyānandī, he does bhajana, you can’t be a goṣṭhyānandī unless you do bhajana, and he relishes bhajana, but his main interest is to share what he has with others, to bring others to Krishna consciousness. And that is considered higher or more pleasing to Krishna. But Srila Prabhupada was very clear that both are pleasing to Krishna, it is not that one is and the other is not, both are pleasing to Krishna, but bringing others to Krishna is more pleasing. And he said that some yogis like to eat sweet balls, and some like to share them. But we should taste and distribute. If we don’t have taste, then we ourselves will be shaky, and our effort to convince others will be somewhat weak. But if we are really tasting, then we can really recommend Krishna consciousness to others with conviction.

Everyone is tasting to some degree, otherwise we wouldn’t be here. So we need to do both. And Srila Prabhupada emphasized that to have the potency to preach, you have to be pure. And to be pure, you have to chant sixteen rounds and follow the four regulative principles as the basic foundation. And he felt that if someone had the foundation of the sixteen rounds and the regulative principles, they would have sufficient strength and purity to preach and bring others. So, it is not that difficult, it is actually not that difficult. But again, as Srila Prabhupada said, “The chanting is easy, but the determination to chant is not so easy.” So, what I just described, it is actually quite easy, it is not that difficult. But to have the determination to do it is not so easy, unless one is in the association of devotees, then it is possible, and it gradually becomes easy. Because the devotees will encourage you. That is why it is so important. Like Prabhupada said, “The first choice is, if you can, live in the temple. Second choice is to live near the temple and attend the temple programs. And third is to make your home into a temple.” And they are all good, but it is just easier if you are in the temple or near the temple. But still, you can practice at home. But even then, you should regularly visit the temple, regularly visit the temple, get the inspiration to follow the temple programs at home.

I know at Chowpatty, where His Holiness Radhanath Swami is in charge of the project, they really emphasize to the congregation to come for maṅgala-ārati and stay through the whole morning program at least once a week, usually on Sunday. Because that will give you the taste, and then you think, Okay, I am going to do this at home. You can do it at home, it is not that hard, you just have to take rest early, get up early. The activities are not difficult, it is just the determination, and that comes from the association. So, that is why some even come the night before, Saturday night, and they are there for maṅgala-ārati and they can stay through the whole day, through the Sunday afternoon program. But that experience, at least once a week, the full morning program, beginning from maṅgala-ārati, that gives impetus to the devotees at home, to follow the same practices at home. So, everything is part of the larger plan. We have to see, we should understand by hearing from sadhus, by reading in shastra, we should understand how the whole scheme works and where we fit in it, so that we can progress, so that we don’t stay at the same level. Because if we do, we may not have the same opportunity in the next life. I know we had many business friends in Bombay, they always used to say, “If your business isn’t expanding, it is dwindling. You can’t just maintain it; you have to keep expanding.” That is what they said. And I think it is like that with Krishna consciousness. You can’t just think you will tread water and not go down; you have to be trying to make progress. You should actually be making progress. And that progress really is possible in the association of pure devotees, that is what Srila Prabhupada repeats again and again in the purport.

Yes, you want to be free from distress; yes, you want money; yes, you want to satisfy your curiosity; yes, you want knowledge. And even a duṣkṛtina, even someone who doesn’t have that much piety, even he, if he associates with a pure devotee, can become a pure devotee. So, anyone can become a pure devotee, but, by the association of another pure devotee. And that is why association is so important, even if we are pious. So, that was basically what I wanted to say. Thank you for your patience. Do any of you have any questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: Maharaja, if all of our enjoyment and all of our distress are preordained, then that means that if a person brings distress to us, we have no reason to get angry at that person? [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: You are correct. But as with other points that we have discussed, there are subtleties. I will give an example that will show you how one’s response could vary according to the situation. Srila Prabhupada was in New Delhi with some of the disciples during the war with Pakistan in 1971, and a newspaper reporter asked him, he was trying to get Prabhupada to take a political stance, which Prabhupada wouldn’t. And he said, “Well, what would happen if. . .” I forget who the head of Pakistan was then. “What would happen if so-and-so came here and dropped a bomb on you?” He said, “I would think that Krishna is coming in the form of so-and-so, in the form of death.” He would take it as Krishna. But another time, a reporter asked him, “What if some evil person came to attack you? Would you defend yourself?” And Prabhupada said, “Yes, why should I let some rascal harm Krishna’s devotee?” So, it depends on the situation. So personally, we can take things as Krishna’s mercy or as due to us, but as devotees, we don’t want Krishna’s service to be hampered.

Now, suppose someone insults me. Is that really going to hamper my service? No, it just might disturb my mind, it is not going to hamper my service. So, if someone insults me, I could think, “Well, I probably deserve it, I probably deserve more. I would think, What is Krishna trying to tell me through this person? What do I have to learn? But, if you are trying to preach to people and someone is going around the community saying, “Oh, that rūpānuga prabhu, he is off the wall, he doesn’t know what he is talking about at all. Don’t listen to him,” and you are sincerely trying to repeat what you have learned from Srila Prabhupada and Krishna consciousness, then that is going to disturb your service or the effort to bring people to Krishna consciousness. So, then we may have to call the person in and say, “Prabhu, why are you saying these things?” But even then, although we want to stop the disturbance to the service, even then, we could still think, Well, maybe I need to improve somewhere, maybe Krishna is trying to tell me something. And I know many advanced book distributors would say that they would feel that the reaction they got from the people on the street was actually Krishna telling them something. One told me that he would be distributing, someone would say, “All you people want is money.” And hearing that, he thought, Well, what is my motivation? Maybe I have become contaminated with a desire to collect money. Maybe giving the person transcendental knowledge so that he can advance in Krishna consciousness isn’t at the forefront of my mind, and maybe that person picked up on it. So, distributors who are in that mood, they often take the comments they get from the public as signs from Krishna, that they have to really examine their own performance and their own consciousness and improve.

And sometimes a person is in a position of authority over another. And if he is, it may be his duty to correct the person, and not because he is upset and angry in a personal sense, but just because it is his duty. Like, the father says, “Son, it hurts me more than it is going to hurt you.” Even Prabhupada sometimes complained that he felt bad that all of his disciples were Vaishnavas, and he felt bad that he had to find fault with them. As a Vaishnava, we don’t want to find fault with other Vaishnavas. But as a spiritual master, it is the duty to correct them and bring them to a higher standard. But even then, he regretted that he had to do it. He did it, it was his duty, he did it well. He sometimes expressed some remorse that he had to do that to his devotees. And as far as demons, well, I think a lot has to do with your capacity. If whoever that was. . . Do you remember who was in charge of Pakistan during this. . .?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:09:11]

Giriraj Swami: I thought so, I thought so. What was it? Ali. . .

Devotee: Ali Bhutto.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. So, if Ali Bhutto comes in to your house with a bomb and he is going to drop it on your head, you could take it as Krishna. Now, if you are the one holding the bomb, you could take a different position. So, sometimes the position we take is dictated by circumstances. It is like the famous prayer that, “God, grant me the patience to tolerate what I can’t change, grant me the courage to try to change what I can, and grant me the wisdom to be able to distinguish between the two.” [laughter] Yes?

Devotee: Most people come to devotional service with material motivations. What serious events take place that they end up giving those up and become more purified?

Giriraj Swami: Well, he is asking, “People, pretty much everyone comes to devotional service with some material motivation. So, what circumstances can lead to them giving them up?”

Well, the positive is to associate with pure devotees. Associate means to really seriously hear what they are saying and follow it. It doesn’t mean, externally. Prabhupada would ride on the airplane and people were on the airplane with him, but they weren’t associating with him in the sense we mean. Real association means to hear, to inquire, and to serve, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśhnena sevayā. That is how we associate with the pure devotee. So, if we associate like that, that will work. Now, if we don’t, or if we don’t sufficiently, Krishna may help by putting us in distress, by putting us in more distress until we understand that we have to take shelter of His devotees. And there is the famous verse that Srila Prabhupada quoted in relation to his own life where Krishna says, yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ, that, “When I am especially mercifully inclined to a devotee, the first installment of My special mercy is that I take everything away from him. And then. when he is rejected by his family and relatives, then he will take shelter of my pure devotees.” Sometimes it comes to that. And I have discussed with other senior preachers that sometimes someone knows the philosophy, they have heard it hundreds of times. They could even give a class, but they are not able to give up their attachments. And sometimes the only intervention that will help is some significant illness or reversal in the material sense. And then, the devotee will take shelter of Krishna. That is also Krishna’s mercy.

One man, actually his son, I have told this story once or twice before, his son was translating Prabhupada’s books into Hindi in New Delhi, and the father came to meet him. He was pious but he had one problem, that he smoked cigarettes. I happened to be in the room, and after the first Delhi pandal, the father came in. And Srila Prabhupada asked whether he had been able to give up smoking, and the man said, “No.” He said, “Can’t I get some special mercy to be able to give it up?” He wanted some magic. [laughter] And Prabhupada said, “Special mercy? Yes, there is special mercy.” And then he quoted the verse, yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi, that, “The first installment of my special mercy is I take everything away from the devotee.” And Srila Prabhupada asked him, “Do you want special mercy?” [laughter] “No, Prabhupada, no, I will make my own efforts.” [laughter] There are people who shy away from it.

We had one preacher, he was with me once or twice here, Mahaprabhu dasa from Bombay. He told me there were people who he would just ask them to come to the temple, that is all, just come and see the deities, that is all, see the deities, eat at Govinda’s, then you can go home; they wouldn’t come. Because they knew or they believed that devotional service, Krishna consciousness, is a one-way street. Once you take the first step, you have to keep going. And then, once you keep going, well, then Krishna takes everything away and you become a pure devotee. But we think that is great, some of us, but some people think, Oh, well, maybe I am not ready for that yet, maybe in some other life. [laughter] But again, Krishna is considerate. It is a matter of faith; Krishna is considerate and He can give you more. There are many examples where Krishna gives you more. I have also given the example of Srinathiji dasa. He and Mahaprabhu came about the same time. And Srinathi dasa was considered a simple person. He was very intelligent, but his father was a very shrewd businessman, Dharamsinh Desai, he is a big industrialist, a member of parliament. And Dharamsinh passed away at a relatively young age, maybe fifty-seven, of a heart attack while he was in Malaysia or Singapore on business.

So, I would meet a lot of business people in the course of my preaching. So, the talk going around was that, Dharmsinh built up this economic empire, and now, Srinathi dasa, he wasn’t initiated, Narendra, he is the only son, he is going to take over the whole enterprise. And they were thinking whether he would be able to maintain it. And Narendra, he was really a very sincere devotee, very serious devotee. And I visited him quite a bit at that time and he was getting interested in Krishna consciousness and people were giving him all sorts of free advice, like, “Why are you doing all this chanting?” And then he was going to take initiation. And then, he was saying people he didn’t even really know, he would just pass them on his morning walk, they would come up to him and say, “You are going to take initiation from a foreigner?” Give him all this free advice. But anyway, he didn’t listen, he remained very serious in his practices and he really would get up early, have maṅgala-ārati, chant his rounds, read, he was very serious, and then go to the office. And his business multiplied; it increased by leaps and bounds. And I could see he was so serious he was getting insights into how to do his business from chanting. I don’t think it was his motive, that, Oh, if I chant, I will get it, but it was a byproduct, it was a byproduct. Krishna wanted to make him an example. I think there were two things. Krishna wanted to make him an example that if you surrender to Krishna, you don’t lose, you are the gainer. And Krishna also knew that the wealth that He entrusted to Srinathiji dasa would be used in Krishna’s service.

So, there are cases like that also. In other words, Krishna is very considerate, He will do whatever is best for His devotee. And we have to have that faith. And if He thinks the devotee needs to have something taken away, He will take it away. And if He thinks it will be good to give the devotee more, He will give the devotee more. So, it is not necessarily like that. But if someone is materially attached and his attachment is coming in the way of his progress in devotional service, Krishna might take it away temporarily. But then, when he is rectified, Krishna can give him more than He took away. And Prabhupada said that, whenever Krishna takes something away from you, it is only to give you something better. So, that is also a false apprehension. But people could have it, but it is because they lack faith. But we have to remove their doubts, give them confidence.

All right, thank you very much.