SB 2.7.23 – Rama-navami

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Today we have gathered to celebrate the appearance of the Personality of Godhead, Sri Ramachandra, in the material world. Such occasions give us the opportunity to remember the Lord, glorify the Lord, and increase our devotion for the Lord. We shall begin by reciting one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is the fruit, ripened fruit of the desired tree of Vedic knowledge, and the nectarean juice of that fruit is relished even by liberated souls. Please repeat after me.

Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya

Om Namo Bhagavate Vāsudevāya

We read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Two, Chapter Seven: “Scheduled Incarnations,”

TEXT 23

asmat-prasāda-sumukhaḥ kalayā kaleśa
ikṣvāku-vaṁśa avatīrya guror nideśe
tiṣṭhan vanaṁ sa-dayitānuja āviveśa
yasmin virudhya daśa-kandhara ārtim ārcchat

TRANSLATION

Due to His causeless mercy upon all living entities within the universe, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, along with His plenary extensions, appeared in the family of Mahārāja Ikṣvāku as the Lord of His internal potency, Sītā. Under the order of His father, Mahārāja Daśaratha, He entered the forest and lived there for considerable years with His wife and younger brother. Rāvaṇa, who was very materially powerful, with ten heads on his shoulders, committed a great offense against Him and was thus ultimately vanquished

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Lord Rāma is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and His brothers, namely Bharata, Lakṣmaṇa and Śatrughna, are His plenary expansions. All four brothers are viṣṇu-tattva and were never ordinary human beings. There are many unscrupulous and ignorant commentators on Rāmāyaṇa who present the younger brothers of Lord Rāmacandra as ordinary living entities. But here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the most authentic scripture on the science of Godhead, it is clearly stated that His brothers were His plenary expansions. Originally Lord Rāmacandra is the incarnation of Vāsudeva, Lakṣmaṇa is the incarnation of Saṅkarṣaṇa, Bharata is the incarnation of Pradyumna, and Śatrughna is the incarnation of Aniruddha, expansions of the Personality of Godhead. Lakṣmījī Sītā is the internal potency of the Lord and is neither an ordinary woman nor the external potency incarnation of Durgā. Durgā is the external potency of the Lord, and she is associated with Lord Śiva.

As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā (4.7), the Lord appears when there are discrepancies in the discharge of factual religion. Lord Rāmacandra also appeared under the same circumstances, accompanied by His brothers, who are expansions of the Lord’s internal potency, and by Lakṣmījī Sītādevī.

Lord Rāmacandra was ordered by His father, Mahārāja Daśaratha, to leave home for the forest under awkward circumstances, and the Lord, as the ideal son of His father, carried out the order, even on the occasion of His being declared the King of Ayodhyā. One of His younger brothers, Lakṣmaṇajī, desired to go with Him, and so also His eternal wife, Sītājī, desired to go with Him. The Lord agreed to both of them, and all together they entered the Daṇḍakāraṇya Forest, to live there for fourteen years. During their stay in the forest, there was some quarrel between Rāmacandra and Rāvaṇa, and the latter kidnapped the Lord’s wife, Sītā. The quarrel ended in the vanquishing of the greatly powerful Rāvaṇa, along with all his kingdom and family.

Sītā is Lakṣmījī, or the goddess of fortune, but she is never to be enjoyed by any living being. She is meant for being worshiped by the living being along with her husband, Śrī Rāmacandra. A materialistic man like Rāvaṇa does not understand this great truth, but on the contrary he wants to snatch Sītādevī from the custody of Rāma and thus incurs great miseries. The materialists, who are after opulence and material prosperity, may take lessons from the Rāmāyaṇa that the policy of exploiting the nature of the Lord without acknowledging the supremacy of the Supreme Lord is the policy of Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa was very advanced materially, so much so that he turned his kingdom, Laṅkā, into pure gold, or full material wealth. But because he did not recognize the supremacy of Lord Rāmacandra and defied Him by stealing His wife, Sītā, Rāvaṇa was killed, and all his opulence and power were destroyed.

Lord Rāmacandra is a full incarnation with six opulences in full, and He is therefore mentioned in this verse as kaleśaḥ, or master of all opulence.

TRANSLATION (again)

Due to His causeless mercy upon all living entities within the universe, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, along with His plenary extensions, appeared in the family of Mahārāja Ikṣvāku as the Lord of His internal potency, Sītā. Under the order of His father, Mahārāja Daśaratha, He entered the forest and lived there for considerable years with His wife and younger brother. Rāvaṇa, who was very materially powerful, with ten heads on his shoulders, committed a great offense against Him and was thus ultimately vanquished

COMMENT

So here in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the Second Canto, there is a summary of the pastimes of Lord Ramachandra within two or three verses. The pastimes of Lord Rama are also summarized in the Ninth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in two full chapters. And also, the pastimes are explained quite fully in the Rāmāyaṇa of Valmiki, in many volumes. So we can only begin to touch on a few points here. The first point is that Lord Ramachandra is kaleśaḥ. He is a full manifestation of Godhead with full potencies. The great Vedic authority Parasara Muni has defined the word Bhagavān. Bhagavān is generally translated as God, but it has a specific meaning. Bhaga means opulence, and van means one who possesses. So one who possesses all opulences in full is Bhagavān or God.

Parasara Muni explains that there are six opulences in particular. One is wealth. If we look at the people in this room, we will find that someone has more wealth than the others. But if we look beyond the room, into the whole city of Columbus, we will find someone has more wealth than him. And if we look still further, we will find someone who has even more wealth. And when we come to that person who has all wealth, no one is equal to Him or greater than Him, that is God or Bhagavān. When Lord Krishna was personally present on earth, He built a city called Dvaraka, and in Dvaraka He had more than sixteen thousand marble palaces. Of course, God has unlimited opulence, this is just a small manifestation of His opulence in a way that we can understand and appreciate.

Similarly, strength. If we look we will find someone has strength. If we look further, we will find someone has more strength. And we look still further, we will find someone who has still more strength. And when we come to the person who has all strength, no one is equal to Him or greater than Him, that is God or Bhagavān. Krishna also demonstrated His strength by lifting the Govardhana mountain with the little finger of His left hand, and He held it up for seven days. But again, that is just a small exhibition of his power. Actually, God is maintaining so many universes and planets, keeping these planets floating in space by His potency.

So, in this way, there are six opulences, and Krishna or Ramachandra is full in all of them. And therefore, although in one sense God has no name, He is beyond any name, but still, God can be described by His different forms and qualities and pastimes and attributes. And the terms that describe him can also be taken as names for him. But if we look at all of those qualities, we will find that they are all-attractive. If we say, “God is great.” Well, greatness is an attractive quality. If some great person comes, he will be attracted. We want to see how a great person has come. We say that God is merciful, that is also an attractive quality. People are attracted by the quality of mercy or by someone who has the quality of mercy. So God has every attractive quality in full and therefore, the name Krishna is considered the best name of God in the sense that Krishna means all-attractive. He is the sum total of all attractive qualities. And Rama is kaleśaḥ, He is the same as Krishna, almost the same as Krishna. He is also Bhagavān. The difference is that Krishna manifests Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whereas Lord Ramachandra appeared as the ideal king. And as the ideal king, He voluntarily accepted some restrictions on His behavior to set the example for others. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas [Bg. 3.2], whatever great men do, ordinary people follow. So even though the Lord has nothing to do, tasya kāryaṁ na vidyate [Bg. 3.17], but still, to show the example for others, He acts in an exemplary manner. And as Lord Ramachandra, He acted as the ideal son, as the ideal husband, as the ideal brother, and as the ideal king. The Rāmāyaṇa is full of ideals. Sitadevi also, She acted as the ideal wife. Lakṣhmaṇa and Bharata and Śatrughna acted as ideal brothers. Rāmāyaṇa is full of ideals that we can follow or aspire to follow.

Now, not only is Lord Ramachandra the Personality of Godhead, but His three brothers, they appeared as His brothers, they are also expansions of Godhead. They are different categories. Viṣṇu-tattva means the Personality of Godhead and His direct expansions such as Rama, Nṛsiṁha, Varaha. And then, there is jīva-tattva, which are the living entities, we are jīva-tattva, the marginal potency. And then there is the internal potency, Lakshmi, Sita, Radharani. And we, as marginal potency, can come either under the external potency; Durga, maya, or the internal potency—Lakshmi or ultimately, Srimati Radharani. And that is our success in life. As living entities, we have minute independence, but when we come under the material energy, we suffer. And when we place ourselves under the spiritual energy, we enjoy transcendental bliss.

Once, the Birla family in Bombay, they were the richest family in India at the time at least, they invited Srila Prabhupada to speak at their home, beautiful mansion in Bombay with a large garden. The program was held outdoors in the garden. And so I came up with some titles, possible titles for Srila Prabhupada’s topic of discussion. And considering the mood of her family’s circle of friends, she chose the title, “How to be Successful in Life,” They were already successful, highly successful, but I guess they wanted to be more successful. Of course, that is also the nature of greed; one is never satisfied. Some time ago in America, he was in America, but he was considered the richest man in the world, John Paul Geddy. So one interviewer asked him, “Can you give us your philosophy of life in one word?” and he said, “Yes, more.” And the interviewer asked, “You are the richest man in the world, you have everything that money can buy, the world is at your fingertips. When you are alone, when nobody else is around, what do you think about?” And he replied, “I think about how to pay the bills.” Just the same as anyone else. We are thinking, “Oh, how can we get the money together to make the payment on the mortgage? How can we get our two thousand dollars to make the payment on the mortgage?” And he is thinking, “How can I get the two billion dollars to buy out this company?” But it is the same principle, how to pay the bills, how to get the money to pay the bills. And therefore, the Bhāgavatam says that those who eulogize big people who have no God consciousness or Krishna consciousness, who themselves do not glorify the Lord, such people are compared to dogs, hogs, camels, and asses. In other words, animals. It is just like the small animals eulogize the big animal, that is all, but they are all animals because they identify with the body, they have no spiritual knowledge, and they do not use their valuable human form of life to glorify God.

Srila Prabhupada gives the example that in the jungle or the plains, the lion is very powerful, the king of the jungle. And so many small animals, when the lion roars, so many small animals are afraid, “Oh, the lion is coming, the king of the jungle.” And they, in their own language, they may glorify the lion, eulogize the lion. But what is the significance of it? It has no significance, just different sounds in the jungle; it has no significance. So, these people who are important in the material world, if they are without God consciousness, they have no importance., We don’t really care for them, we don’t want to follow them, we don’t think that their example is worth following, but we want to follow ideal persons like Lord Ramachandra and His brothers, His wife, His father and their followers. And that will make us successful.

So, when Srila Prabhupada was given this topic, he explained to the audience that we as living entities are marginal potency, taṭasthā-śakti. Just like the beach is marginal, when the tide is low, that sandy portion is part of the shore, part of the dry land. And when the tide is high, that part of the beach is covered by water and it becomes part of the ocean. So in the same way, we are marginal, we can be either covered by the material energy or else be part of the spiritual energy. And Srila Prabhupada explained that the emblem of the spiritual energy or the personification of the spiritual energy is Srimati Radharani, and the personification of the material energy is Durga devi. And Durga is always armed with a triśūla, a trident, she rides on her lion carrier, and she carries her triśūla, her trident. And the three prongs of the trident represent the threefold miseries of material existence; miseries caused by our own minds and bodies, miseries caused by other living entities, and miseries caused by acts of nature. All conditioned souls are always being afflicted by these miseries. So when we come under the material energy, we are punished by Durga devi. Durga means warden, she is like the warden of the prison house that keeps us bound. So, success in life means to come out of the prison house of material existence, out from the control of Durga, the punishments of the threefold miseries, and under the control of Srimati Radharani.

So, materialistic people like Rāvaṇa, and we are all to some extent materialistic, that is why we are in the material world, we are that minority of criminals, rebellious souls who are imprisoned in the material world. So Rāvaṇa, he wanted to take the energy of the Lord and enjoy her for himself. And that offense led to the destruction of him and his entire family and kingdom. Anyone who tries to take the property of the Lord and enjoy it for himself will be killed by the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34], “For the atheists, for the demons, I appear as death and take everything away.” We are trying so hard to accumulate some wealth, and we are trying very hard to keep it, but we are like little Rāvaṇas, trying to snatch Sitadevi from Ramachandra. And in the end, we will be killed, and we will lose everything.

Now, someone may say, “Well, it is not only the demons who are killed, everyone is killed,” but actually, that is not the fact. Death is actually an illusion. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20], for the soul, there is no birth or death. Death is meant for those who identify with the body, they die, they are afraid of death, they don’t want to die, they do everything possible to avoid death, but they are forced to surrender to death, Krishna in the form of death. Nobody wants to surrender; everyone wants to be independent. So Krishna says, “Okay, you don’t want to surrender to me voluntarily, okay, I will come as death and you will be forced to surrender.” Nobody can avoid death, as sure as death. And when death comes, death takes everything away from us; our body, our wives, our children, our home, our conveyance, our money, everything. We lose everything, exactly like Rāvaṇa; we lose everything, we cannot hold on to one hair, cannot hold on to one penny, we lose everything. So we should not place ourselves in such a precarious position, but we should voluntarily return Sita to the side of Ramachandra. If Rāvaṇa had done that, even granted that he made the mistake of kidnapping Her in the first place, but if he had returned Her to Lord Ramachandra, he could have avoided the whole catastrophe. But he wouldn’t, he tried to hold on to Her to the very end, and that was his downfall. Not only his own downfall, but the downfall of his whole dynasty and kingdom. And that will happen to all of us.

There is the illusory sense of success. Srila Prabhupada used to give the example, I guess it is a little delicate now, but he used to give the example that suppose someone invests in the stock market, and at noon, during the middle of the day’s trading he becomes a billionaire, but at the end of the day’s trading he loses everything. Now, if he boasts that, “Oh, between noon and one o’clock I was a multi-millionaire, I was a billionaire,” is that a very wonderful achievement? Because at the end of the day, you lost everything. So, that is what our life is like, maybe for some years in between we have some wealth, but in the end, we lose everything. And it is a vain glory that, “Oh, between noon and one o’clock I was a multi-millionaire.” We lose everything. We start with nothing, we come into the world with nothing, and we leave with nothing. And in between we are madly claiming, madly like mad men, madly claiming, “This is my property.” The land was there for millions of years before you were born and it will continue to be there for millions of years, but in between you are saying, “This is my property. I have the deed; I can prove it.” It is all illusion, but it is an illusion that leads to great distress, ārati. Rāvaṇa suffered great distress because of trying to kidnap Sita. So whether you like it or not, you will have to surrender to Krishna. If you don’t surrender to Him voluntarily, willingly, you will be forced to surrender because He will come as death, and when death comes, you have no choice, you must surrender.

Once, Srila Prabhupada gave a talk in Seattle, and after the talk, one young man said that he didn’t want to bow down to anyone, he didn’t feel that he should have to bow down to anyone. And Srila Prabhupada replied, “You have diagnosed your own disease. You don’t want to bow down, but by nature, you are meant for bowing down, you cannot avoid bowing down.” He said, “When you go to work, do you not have to bow down to your boss?” He said, “Yes, but that is material. But spiritually, I don’t think I should have to bow down to anyone, I feel I am equal to anyone else.” Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, you may not want to bow down, but you are forced to bow down. If you don’t bow down voluntarily to Krishna or His representative, you will be forced to bow down to maya, to birth, disease, old age, and death.” Nobody wants disease, but when disease comes, you have to bow down, you can’t avoid it. Same with old age, no one wants to grow old, suffer all the inconveniences of old age, but you are forced to. I meet so many old people. They don’t really want to be alive because there are just so many miseries. When you get to eighty, ninety, things break down, it becomes harder and harder to live in the body. But old age, you have to bow down, you can’t say, “I want to live, I want to be young forever.” And death, death you have to bow down.

So, an intelligent person should think, “Why should I spend all my time and energy, stealing God’s property and trying to hold on to it, when in the end, He is going to come and take it all away and I will lose everything? Why not just return the stolen property immediately?” Of course, someone might think, “Well, if everything belongs to God and if I return everything to God, then how will I live? We need to pay the bills.” Well there are two answers. One is that, if we really surrender to God, He will take care of us. It doesn’t mean that we don’t do our duties, especially in grihastha ashram, we have certain duties and responsibilities. We do our duties, but we don’t think that we are the proprietors, we don’t think we are the enjoyers, we don’t think we are the controllers. In other words, we shouldn’t be envious of God. Of course, we are, that is why we are in the material world, we are envious of God and we want to play being God, and that is why we are trying to possess so many things and enjoy so many things, actually imitating God. We are envious of Him and want to take His place. But if we can give up that false mentality and accept our actual position as eternal servants of God, jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108–109], then we become free from this false proprietorship, false enjoyment, false prestige, and we come to our actual position. And that is liberation.

As devotees, we are not interested in the so-called impersonal liberation of merging and becoming one with God. For a devotee, the thought of merging and becoming one with God is hellish, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Actually, a devotee would rather live in hell than merge and try to become one with God. Because at least in hell, he can chant Hare Krishna, he can dance, he can speak about Krishna, he can take Krishna prasāda. So for a devotee, the thought of merging and becoming one with God, giving up one’s individual existence is hellish kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. Real liberation is to be situated in our constitutional positions as eternal servants of Krishna, muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ  sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ [SB. 2.10.6], when one gives up all these false identifications, all these different bodies and is situated in one’s constitutional position in eternal service to Krishna, and again, Krishna means God, that is mukti, that is real liberation. And īhā yasya harer dāsye, karmaṇā manasā girā [Bs. 1.2.187], that if we understand that we are servants of God, and even in this body we engage fully in the service of the Lord, karmaṇā, with our activities, manasā, with our mind, and girā, with our words, jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate [Bs. 1.2.187], such a person is considered liberated even in this lifetime, even in this body.

So, in that consciousness, especially if you are in grihastha ashram, but whatever ashram, if you are in that consciousness, then you can live with your wife, with your children, with your household paraphernalia, with your other assets, but you won’t think that you are the proprietor. You will think that Krishna is the proprietor or Rama is the proprietor. Just like Lakshman, Bharata, Satrughna, they were living in the palace with Rama, but they didn’t think they are the proprietors, they are the controllers, they are the enjoyers; they were there for the service of Rama and therefore, they were not entangled, they were not demonic. So our homes, so-called our homes, they belong to God, everything belongs to God, and if we are conscious that it belongs to God, if we have deities, if we have to undergo the process of arcanam, sevā, then we think, The house belongs to the deity, to God, to Krishna. My wife belongs to God, my children belong to God, my money belongs to God, everything belongs to God and it should be used in God’s service. So then, we can live in the world amidst so-called material things and not be entangled, and not be killed, not suffer terrible distress, and not lose everything in the end.

But one has to live in that spirit, in earnestness. We cannot cheat God, we cannot fool God. We can fool other people, we can be duplicitous, we might fool others into thinking we are great devotees when actually we are not. Like Rāvaṇa, he approached Sita in the guise of a sadhu, but he wasn’t a sadhu. So yes, we might fool some people for some time, but we cannot fool God. He is in our hearts, He knows our actual purpose, He knows our actual intentions, He knows our actual mentality; we cannot fool Him or cheat Him. So that spirit, that everything belongs to God and we are His servants, God will know whether we really are in that mood or not. And if we are, then we are free, we are liberated, even in the body. But if we have the idea like Rāvaṇa, “I am going to take the property of the Lord and enjoy it for myself. I am equal to Rama, I am greater than Rama,” these types of demonic thoughts, then we will suffer greatly, and in the end we will be killed, and everything will be taken from us.

So, how to develop that spirit? How to develop that consciousness? Yes, we hear the discussion, we understand the reality of the future that awaits us if we don’t surrender to God, but we are so conditioned, we are so used to trying to be the Lord of all, we survey the Supreme enjoyer, the Supreme controller, the Supreme proprietor. How do we actually change our consciousness? And that method was given specially to us souls in the present age by another incarnation of God, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, that is the chanting of the holy names of the Lord. 

harer nāma harer nāma
harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva
nāsty eva gatir anyathā        [CC Madhya 6.242]

One should chant the holy names, chant the holy names, chant the holy names. There is no other way, no other way, no other way for success in the present age.

Our hearts are contaminated, they are polluted, they are filled with so many dirty things, beginning with, “I am this body,” thinking, “I am this body and everything related to this body belongs to me.” We are completely absorbed in these thoughts of, “I, Me, and Mine.” So we have to purify the heart, and that can be achieved by chanting attentively. One can chant negligently, one can chant externally with one’s lips and tongue, one can articulate the names of the Lord, which is good, that is what the tongue is meant to do, but within our minds, we could be thinking of something completely different. Within our minds, we can be in the mood of Rāvaṇa, the mood of the demons, īśvaro ‘ham ahaṁ bhogī [Bg. 16.14], “I am the Lord, I am the controller, I am the enjoyer.” So, that external show of chanting will not bring the desired result. We have to really let go of our false egos and really absorb ourselves in the holy name, in reviving our relationship with Krishna, rectifying our relationship with Krishna. We all are originally God conscious, we all have eternal relationships with God, but we have turned away from God. We were envious, we wanted to take His place, and so we came under maya, we have come into the material world, and we are engaged in so many sinful activities and suffering the results. So, we have turned away from God, but even though we did so, still God is kind to us, He is merciful to us, He loves us unconditionally, and He wants us to come back to Him. And therefore, He comes in different incarnations as Rama, as Krishna, as Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Or He sends His good sons, His messengers, His prophets, His servants. They come to enlighten us, to wake us up to our actual lives as servants of God or Krishna. And they give us the method by which to return to our relationship with Him. And especially in the present age of Kali, the method is to chant the holy names, but with sincerity, with attention.

As Lord Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā, wherever the mind wanders due to its flickering and unsteady nature, one should bring it back to the self. So when we chant, when our minds wander to various thoughts, we should bring the mind back to the sound of the holy name, and that will purify the heart, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], that will cleanse the mirror of the mind, and we will actually be able to see ourselves as we are, as eternal servants of Krishna, and we will simultaneously see the Lord face to face, and we will enter into our eternal relationship with Him. So we can’t even begin to describe the value of Krishna consciousness, the value of entering into a direct, personal, loving relationship with God where you can see Him face to face, speak to Him, and serve Him. But that is possible, and even in this world, in this life, in this body, we can experience transcendental bliss. And therefore, for a devotee, there is no difference between life and death because in this life, he is serving Krishna, and in the next life he will serve Krishna. So for him, the change of body is immaterial, he is happy in any circumstance. And this is all achieved by chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

You might think, Oh, we are so busy, where is the time to chant? But you have time, everyone has time. You have time to eat, you have time to sleep, you have time to do so many things. In one class in Los Angeles, Srila Prabhupada said, “If you have time, chant Hare Krishna. Don’t speak nonsense, don’t waste time. If you have got time, chant Hare Krishna.” So, where there is a will, there is a way. If we want to revive our relationship with Krishna, which is really the only sane thing to do, then Krishna will help us, devotees will help us, and we will be successful by their grace. Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: So are there any questions or comments? Yes, sir?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:09:22]

Giriraj Swami: Very good question. What is your name again?

Devotee: Narahari

Giriraj Swami: Narahari. He says that we are under the threefold miseries under Durga. So, how do we get out of them? That is the most important question.

Well, the Bhagavad-gītā says daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14], that the material nature consisting of the three modes is very difficult to overcome, but mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14], if one surrenders to Krishna, he can easily cross over maya and the threefold miseries. There is another beautiful verse from the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, [10.14.58]

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

The meaning is that this material world is like a great ocean and there is danger at every step, but for one who has surrendered to the lotus feet of Krishna, who is famous as Murari, the enemy of the Mura demon, this vast ocean of nescience becomes just like a puddle contained in the hoof print of a calf. Although there is danger at every step, the devotee crosses right over it. So that is the way to become free from the punishment of Durga, that is to surrender to Krishna. Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: I have a question. [Unintelligible 01:12:47] but from the scriptures we know that they don’t belong to us, they belong to Krishna. So what do we do? Do we mentally renounce these objects when we are still attached to them? Aren’t we pulling ourselves to the same fact in reality we still have attachment to them? What do we do? Do we wait? Do we just close these attachments? What do we do? [Unintelligible 01:13:26]

Giriraj Swami: Another good question. What is your name?

Devotee: Lakshmi.

Giriraj Swami: Lakshmi. She says that there are material objects to which we are attached. I am paraphrasing, so she is saying, do we artificially renounce them even though we are attached to them, or do we hold on to them until we are purified and then naturally renounce them? What do we do?

So, that is a very good question. The first point is yes, we know that everything belongs to God in theory. So we cannot properly enjoy it because it is not our property. But we also properly cannot renounce it because it is also not our property. Suppose I say, “I have decided to renounce Ohio State University.” [laughter] What is the meaning? It doesn’t belong to me; how can I renounce it? So we can’t do either properly. What we have to do is use God’s property in God’s service. So take food. We all eat, we cannot live without eating, and we may be attached to good food. So we can’t give up eating, but at the same time, if we eat in the spirit of enjoyment, we are becoming entangled in sinful activities. The food doesn’t belong to us. So in the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Krishna says that those who prepare food for their bodily enjoyment or nourishment are simply eating lumps of sin, but those who eat the remnants of food that has been offered in sacrifice to Krishna, they become liberated by eating Krishna prasāda. So you don’t have to give up eating, but you have to change the quality of the eating from material, which is sinful, to spiritual, which is liberating.

Actually, there is a secret in the pastimes of Lord Ramachandra, that when Rāvaṇa kidnapped Sita, the original Sita, the spiritual Sita was taken by Agni into the earth, and what Rāvaṇa took was not the original Sita or the spiritual Sita, but a maya Sita, an illusory representation of Sita. And then, of course, in the end when Sita entered the fire, the original Sita was returned to Lord Ramachandra. So, when we try to possess God’s energy or enjoy God’s energy, we get maya. But when the same energy is returned to the Lord, it becomes spiritual. So the same food, the same rice, the same wheat, the same dahl, the same vegetables, when prepared for our own bodily nourishment or enjoyment is material and sinful, and the same ingredients, when offered to the Lord becomes spiritual. So the same applies to everything. If we use it for God’s purposes in God’s in the way that God wants, as explained in the scriptures and by the spiritual masters and devotees, then the so-called material thing can become spiritual. But we have to do it under proper guidance. 

Some things we cannot offer. Of course, meat, fish, and eggs, we can’t offer. We can’t even offer onions or garlic. So some things we have to leave, like those things, we just have to leave them. We can’t offer them to Krishna so they have no use for us. But everything else, which can be offered to Krishna, can be spiritualized by being used in Krishna’s service. So some things you might have to leave, but whatever you need to live peacefully and happily, you can keep and dovetail it in Krishna’s service. But we should be moderate, we shouldn’t be excessive, even with prasāda, we should be moderate. And then, by that process of purification, then the attachment will diminish. Then we can become like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, he would only eat like a cup of chaas, buttermilk once in a day. The six Gosvamis, they were all like that, they hardly ate or slept. But that wasn’t by some artificial, strenuous endeavor, that was as a natural result of their Krishna consciousness. It is not that they didn’t they decided not to eat, but they forgot, they were so absorbed in Krishna consciousness that they forgot to eat. And Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, like I mentioned, he would just have, like, a small dona like leaf cup or leaf of chaas

One morning, Raghunatha dasa was sick. He wouldn’t really do anything for his body, but his devotees, they saw he was sick so they summoned a physician from Mathura. So he came and he diagnosed Raghunatha dasa that he was suffering from indigestion due to overeating. So his devotees became incensed that, “How could he give such a diagnosis? He hardly eats, just, like, a small cup of buttermilk every day, and sometimes he misses even that.” And Raghunatha dasa replied, “Actually, what the doctor said is true. Last night, there was a big feast in the spiritual world, and I ate too much sweet rice.” [laughter] So that is jivanmukta, even within the body he is liberated, he is in the spiritual world.

Any other questions or comments?

Well, Nanda Kumar says that Lord Rama was the ideal king, the ideal husband, the ideal son, but He doubted His wife. Of course, I am not sure that doubting one’s wife is against dharma, but maybe doubting Sita is. Of course I don’t want to suggest that husbands should doubt their wives, that is not my intention. But the rule is that if a girl spends the night out of the home, she is presumed to be fallen or she is considered to be fallen. And in that society, in that context, Lord Ramachandra wanted Her to show Her own glory, the greatness of Her chastity. Just like there are mahājanas that men follow, great examples of Krishna consciousness, so there are chaste women that women follow, and one of them is Sitadevi. So I would say that it was to glorify Her that Lord Ramachandra wanted Her to enter into the fire; to glorify Her chastity. And later, when He sent Her away, when that He overheard that criticism and He sent Her away, it wasn’t because He had any doubt. She is His eternal consort. But it was because to rule He needed the citizens to have faith in Him. If they didn’t have faith in Him, He wouldn’t be able to rule properly. S, for their sake and to save them from committing offenses, so for their sake, He sent Her away. But that was external. Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:26:15]

Giriraj Swami: What is your name?

Devotee: Anupama dasa

Giriraj Swami: Very nice. He says, now people criticize Him for having sent Her away. Well, as I mentioned, we are in the material world because of enviousness of God, and so people will find fault with Him no matter what He does. Srila Prabhupada told a story to illustrate the nature of enviousness.

There was once an old man and his son, and they had, a heavy load to carry and a donkey. So it began like this, that the old man was riding on the donkey and the son was walking alongside. So people criticized that, “Why are you making the boy walk? He should be on the donkey.” So the old man got down and put the boy on the donkey. So then they went a little further and someone else criticized that, “Why is the old man is walking? He should be on the donkey.” So then the old man got up on the donkey with the boy. Then, a little further on, some other envious person criticized that, “Why are both of you riding on the donkey? You are going to break the back of the poor animal.” So then they both got off of the donkey, and the two of them were walking alongside of the donkey. And then the next person criticized that, “What kind of fools are you? You have a donkey but you are walking by foot.” So no matter what they did, they were criticized. There were only four possibilities, and they tried all four, and some envious person criticized them in every case. So Prabhupada told the story, he said, “What can you do? Sometimes you can’t do anything because envious people will criticize no matter what you do. You just have to go on.”

All right, thank you very much.