BG 2.7–11

Giriraj Swami: 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

We are continuing our [reading?] of the Bhagavad-gītā. Last time we came to a most important verse from Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter Two: “Contents of the Gītā Summarized.”

TEXT 7

kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ
pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ
yac chreyaḥ syān niścitaṁ brūhi tan me
śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam

COMMENT

Arjuna tells the Lord:

TRANSLATION

Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of miserly weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me for certain what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.

COMMENT

The next verse which you didn’t read continues with Arjuna’s confession to Krsna.

TEXT 8

na hi prapaśyāmi mamāpanudyād
yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām
avāpya bhūmāv asapatnam ṛddhaṁ
rājyaṁ surāṇām api cādhipatyam

TRANSLATION

I can find no means to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not be able to dispel it even if I win a prosperous, unrivaled kingdom on earth with sovereignty like the demigods in heaven.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Although Arjuna was putting forward so many arguments based on knowledge of the principles of religion and moral codes, it appears that he was unable to solve his real problem without the help of the spiritual master, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He could understand that his so-called knowledge was useless in driving away his problems, which were drying up his whole existence; and it was impossible for him to solve such perplexities without the help of a spiritual master like Lord Kṛṣṇa. Academic knowledge, scholarship, high position, etc., are all useless in solving the problems of life; help can be given only by a spiritual master like Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, the conclusion is that a spiritual master who is one hundred percent Kṛṣṇa conscious is the bona fide spiritual master, for he can solve the problems of life. Lord Caitanya said that one who is a master in the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, regardless of his social position, is the real spiritual master.

kibā vipra, kibā nyāsī, śūdra kene naya
yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei ‘guru’ haya

“It does not matter whether a person is a vipra [learned scholar in Vedic wisdom], or is born in a lower family, or is in the renounced order of life – if he is a master in the science of Kṛṣṇa, he is the perfect and bona fide spiritual master.” (Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya 8.128) So without being a master in the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no one is a bona fide spiritual master. It is also said in the Vedic literature:

ṣaṭ-karma-nipuṇo vipro
mantra-tantra-viśāradaḥ
avaiṣṇavo gurur na syād
vaiṣṇavaḥ śva-paco guruḥ

“A scholarly brāhmaṇa, expert in all subjects of Vedic knowledge, is unfit to become a spiritual master without being a Vaiṣṇava, or expert in the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But a person born in a family of a lower caste can become a spiritual master if he is a Vaiṣṇava, or Kṛṣṇa conscious.” (Padma Purāṇa)

The problems of material existence – birth, old age, disease and death – cannot be counteracted by accumulation of wealth and economic development. In many parts of the world there are states which are replete with all facilities of life, which are full of wealth and economically developed, yet the problems of material existence are still present. They are seeking peace in different ways, but they can achieve real happiness only if they consult Kṛṣṇa, or the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam – which constitute the science of Kṛṣṇa – through the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, the man in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

If economic development and material comforts could drive away one’s lamentations for family, social, national or international inebrieties, then Arjuna would not have said that even an unrivaled kingdom on earth or supremacy like that of the demigods in the heavenly planets would be unable to drive away his lamentations. He sought, therefore, refuge in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and that is the right path for peace and harmony. Economic development or supremacy over the world can be finished at any moment by the cataclysms of material nature. Even elevation into a higher planetary situation, as men are now seeking on the moon planet, can also be finished at one stroke. The Bhagavad-gītā confirms this: kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti. “When the results of pious activities are finished, one falls down again from the peak of happiness to the lowest status of life.” Many politicians of the world have fallen down in that way. Such downfalls only constitute more causes for lamentation.

Therefore, if we want to curb lamentation for good, then we have to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, as Arjuna is seeking to do. So Arjuna asked Kṛṣṇa to solve his problem definitely, and that is the way of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

TEXT 9

añjaya uvāca
evam uktvā hṛṣīkeśaṁ
guḍākeśaḥ paran-tapaḥ
na yotsya iti govindam
uktvā tūṣṇīṁ babhūva ha

TRANSLATION

Sañjaya said: Having spoken thus, Arjuna, chastiser of enemies, told Kṛṣṇa, “Govinda, I shall not fight,” and fell silent.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Dhṛtarāṣṭra must have been very glad to understand that Arjuna was not going to fight and was instead leaving the battlefield for the begging profession. But Sañjaya disappointed him again in relating that Arjuna was competent to kill his enemies (paran-tapaḥ). Although Arjuna was, for the time being, overwhelmed with false grief due to family affection, he surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spiritual master, as a disciple. This indicated that he would soon be free from the false lamentation resulting from family affection and would be enlightened with perfect knowledge of self-realization, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and would then surely fight. Thus Dhṛtarāṣṭra’s joy would be frustrated, since Arjuna would be enlightened by Kṛṣṇa and would fight to the end.

TEXT 10

tam uvāca hṛṣīkeśaḥ
prahasann iva bhārata
senayor ubhayor madhye
viṣīdantam idaṁ vacaḥ

TRANSLATION

O descendant of Bharata, at that time Kṛṣṇa, smiling, in the midst of both the armies, spoke the following words to the grief-stricken Arjuna.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The talk was going on between intimate friends, namely the Hṛṣīkeśa and the Guḍākeśa. As friends, both of them were on the same level, but one of them voluntarily became a student of the other. Kṛṣṇa was smiling because a friend had chosen to become a disciple. As Lord of all, He is always in the superior position as the master of everyone, and yet the Lord agrees to be a friend, a son or a lover for a devotee who wants Him in such a role. But when He was accepted as the master, He at once assumed the role and talked with the disciple like the master – with gravity, as it is required. It appears that the talk between the master and the disciple was openly exchanged in the presence of both armies so that all were benefited. So the talks of Bhagavad-gītā are not for any particular person, society, or community, but they are for all, and friends or enemies are equally entitled to hear them.

TEXT 11

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

TRANSLATION

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor for the dead.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The Lord at once took the position of the teacher and chastised the student, calling him, indirectly, a fool. The Lord said, “You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned – one who knows what is body and what is soul – does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition.” As explained in later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is even more important than religious formularies. And because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man. As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. The body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body.

COMMENT

All of us are more or less in the same position as Arjuna. We are ignorant and we suffer the pangs of material existence. We don’t really know what to do and what not to do. Consequently we are destined to suffer. 

In the present situation Arjuna had to confront a very difficult situation, such a situation that he felt he could not act according to his prescribed duty. The basis of his ignorance was his false identification with the body. He was facing in battle teachers, grandfather, uncle, cousins—his own family members. Sva-jana. He said to Krishna that, “You want me to fight but what kind of a fight is this? A fight should be against enemies but these are my own people. (sva-jana) These are my own people. How can I fight against my own people? What kind of a war is this that You want me to fight?” He gave so many arguments in terms of morality and sociology and politics why there would be so many bad consequences if he did fight. And then finally he came to the stage where we just read, he said, “Govinda, I shall not fight.”

Even though he was very determined—he approached Krishna as a surrendered soul (śiṣyas te ‘haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam)—but he had already decided, “Govinda I shall not fight.” But even though he had decided not to fight, he had surrendered to Krishna and therefore he was open to changing his decision. 

And again all of us are more or less in the same position. We have made certain decisions, we have come to certain conclusions, but they are not actually in our best interest, ultimate best interest or in the best interest of others. We have all been going on a certain track but the track that we have been on may not really. . . We have led our lives in a certain way, we have made certain decisions based on our limited knowledge, defective senses, and what we have been doing is not necessarily the best for us or for others. In fact it is probably not. So we are in that mood, “Govinda, I shall not fight.” Stubborn. “I will not surrender. I will do everything else but I will not surrender.” The result is that in the end we will lose everything. All the things we are trying to hold onto, we will lose at the time of death, if not sooner. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. Krishna says that, “I come as death and take everything away from everyone.” At the same time there may be things that we want to avoid but we can’t avoid them. As Srila Prabhupada said, “If Krishna wants to give us something with His ten hands, what can we accept with our two hands, and if Krishna wants to take something away with His ten hands, what can we keep with our two hands.” We are helpless in the face of Krishna. We are helpless in the face of material nature. But we have a false sense of independence, a false sense of security which we desperately cling to.

At a certain stage, if we are fortunate, we will realize that we have been in illusion and that realization can come either by some cataclysmic event in the material world or by the good instructions of Krishna—sadhu, shastra, guru—or a combination. In the case of Arjuna, there was a combination. As such, the calamities that we so much want to avoid may actually be blessings because the calamities may actually bring us to realize our actual position although we are desperately trying to avoid such calamities. But then again if we are able to understand our actual position without such calamities then we might be spared some calamities, but then others will come because the nature of the world is such.

Arjuna was intelligent enough. He could understand that no material opulence or lordship would make him happy. This is a realization that many people who have opulence get although often people without opulence maintain the illusion. 

One devotee told me the story of his marriage which had an unfortunate end. He married. Both husband and wife were disciples of Srila Prabhupada. They married when they were both quite enthusiastic about Krishna consciousness, but at a certain stage the wife, after Srila Prabhupada left, wanted more from her husband. She wanted more in terms of physical facilities—a nice place to stay and so on—and she wanted more in terms of attention from him. So there was always this tussle between them. 

Finally the husband thought, “This has been going on for a long time. So maybe I should try to satisfy her.” He got a nice place for her, he engaged in business, some sort of business to earn the money to support the lifestyle that she wanted, and he spent more time with her and their child. I am not sure at what stage the child came into the picture. He said that that change precipitated an irreversible decline in their relationship. It was ironic because he did it to satisfy her but what happened was that as we will read—there is so much to come in the Bhagavad-gītā—about lust that it burns like fire. Say there is a fire and you want to extinguish it. So you pour some ghee on it. You wouldn’t pour ghee nowadays. You will just pour water. So temporarily the fire might go down but then it will blaze more strongly. As they say, “Add fuel to the fire.” The senses can never be satisfied. The mind can never be satisfied. The intelligence can never be satisfied materially. 

So what happened was during that period of tension somehow Krishna was the center and because Krishna was the center they were able to stay together. There was tension but they were able to stay together. But when the husband changed his approach and tried to fulfill her material desires she became more preoccupied with her material desires and no matter what he did, it was never enough. It was never good enough. Their relationship became worse than ever and eventually they divorced.

So this is what Arjuna is saying here that even if he had an unrivalled kingdom with sovereignty like the demigods, he would not be able to drive away his grief. He would not be happy.

I had some firsthand experience because I grew up in a relatively affluent family. This goes back many years before I came to Krishna consciousness so before I proceed with the story I should say that the other people involved—my mother, father, and sister—all met Srila Prabhupada. They were all touched by Krishna consciousness. So this is not meant to be a personal statement about any of them. They all received Srila Prabhupada’s mercy. They all have done service since then. It is just meant to illustrate how material nature works, the nature of material desires, and the nature of relationships that are based on sense gratification.

My father was a lawyer and he worked very hard. He worked a lot and he would often come home late from the office. My mother would always want him to come home earlier. Often he came so late that we would have dinner without him. It was like that. I was very happy when I came to India and I saw how the families would always have their meals together. I don’t know if it is still the case but it was a very important part of the family culture that everyone should have their meals together. But in our family it wasn’t very common that we did. So on my mother’s insistence it was planned that my father would come home from work early, we would all have dinner together. 

So it was quite a big event. We set the table nicely, made a nice meal. We all sat down but there was tension. There were underlying tensions. It came to the point where my sister felt that she needed more clothes and my father, he really just couldn’t understand why she needed more clothes. So this was our big meal together as a family and it got more and more heated between my sister and father. It escalated and finally she just got upset and she got up from the table and stormed into her room and slammed the door.

So then there was the three of us. What to do? So I thought we should try to get her to come back. We went to her room and I said, “Why don’t we just look into her wardrobe and see what she has, how much or how little she has.” In her bedroom she had two closets and then in the middle there was a wall with a full length mirror. The two closets were actually joined behind that wall that separated them. So it was quite a big space and it was completely full of clothes. I was actually shocked. I had never looked in there before and I was shocked. I had one closet—just a regular size one—that was about a third of her wardrobe which was completely packed. And my one closet was about a third full. I just had a few pairs of pants and shirts. I saw that and I thought, “Oh my God! What does she do with all those clothes?” [laughter] I couldn’t believe it.

I don’t know how things ended between my father and sister. I just remember being shocked by the sight of all those clothes and wondering how one person could wear so many clothes. [laughter] I think I was also struck by the fact that she felt so deficient in the face of it. Later after I met Srila Prabhupada and started to learn some of the principles of Krishna consciousness it all started to fit into place. 

One thing that Srila Prabhupada said related to service because we are all by constitution servants. Did you study the Introduction to the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is with them? In the Introduction Srila Prabhupada discusses sanātana-dharma, what is sanātana-dharma. So sanātana means “eternal” and dharma is a big word. Dharma comes from the Sanskrit root dhar which means “characteristic.” From that point of view dharma is the characteristic of a thing, intrinsic characteristic of a thing that cannot be separated from the thing. In that sense one could say the dharma of sugar is to be sweet. If it is not sweet it is not sugar. The dharma of chili is to be hot. If it is not hot it is not chili. So what is the dharma, what is the intrinsic characteristic of the living entity? Can anyone answer?

Devotee: To serve.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. How do you know?

Devotee: By your mercy Maharaja and my guru who taught me like that.

Giriraj Swami: That is the method. No one else knew or else they were too shy. 

The inherent nature, characteristic of the living entity is to render service. Everyone is engaged in rendering service. The children serve the parents, the wife serves the husband, the husband serves the boss, the boss serves his boss—everyone is serving someone. And even if someone says, “I don’t want to serve anyone. I just want to enjoy. I want to be independent,” even then he will serve his senses. His eyes will dictate, “Oh, I want to see this nice thing.” “Yes, I will act according to your command.” The ears will dictate, “I want to hear this music.” The tongue will dictate, “I want to taste this food.” The senses will dictate and we will serve the senses.

So everyone is servant. Srila Prabhupada said that if you serve others but you don’t serve Krishna you will not be satisfied by your service and the people you are serving will also not be satisfied and they may not even appreciate the fact that you are serving them. He gave the example of Mahatma Gandhi. He dedicated his life for the service of the nation but people were not satisfied with his service and they killed him. So I thought, here is my father, he is working so hard to earn money to provide for the family, and he probably thought he was doing what he could or should for my sister. And she probably wasn’t even conscious that he was serving her. She was not satisfied. She just thought, “I need more. I am not getting what I need.” She was very unhappy.

Now any other type of service besides service to Krishna is temporary. It will be based on the body, the senses, the mind. The body is temporary and so the service is temporary. Srila Prabhupada used to give the example that we identify with the body like, “I am Indian. I want to serve the cause of India or Hindutva,” and the other identifies, “I am Muslim,” or, “I am Pakistani. I want to serve the cause of Pakistan,” but the Indian—this is just an example—who hates Pakistan in his next life he might take birth in Pakistan and hate India. So it is all temporary. 

The service of the individual soul to the Supreme Soul is eternal (Sanatana). The individual soul is Sanatana and the Supreme Soul is Sanatana. Their relationship is Sanatana. The result of such devotional service is that the living entity will join the Supreme Lord in the eternal abode which is also Sanatana. So it is all Sanatana. That is our actual position and acting in that position will make us happy and nothing else will.

We will be reading in the verses to come about the soul, the difference between the soul and the body, and we will learn that we are not the body, but we are the soul within the body. That is a very basic instruction, the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā—very basic lesson, “I am not the body. I am the soul within the body.”—but that knowledge has profound implications because if I am not the body, if I am the soul within the body, what am I going to do for the soul who is my real self? What am I going to do for the soul because most of what we do is for the body. Even though we know theoretically we are not the body; we are the soul, but practically we spend most of our time thinking about the body, desiring things for the body, experiencing the pains and pleasures of the body, reacting to the pains and pleasures of the body, and working for the benefit of the body. So in that sense we are like Arjuna. We may or may not speak learned words but we definitely lament for that which is not worthy of grief. We do not act as if we knew that we were spirit souls. We are preoccupied with the body. 

So just this one instruction that “you are not the body; you are the soul within the body” has profound implications. If one understood only that much that he is the soul then his life would change completely. Instead of the focus being the body—my body, my wife’s body, children’s bodies, and everything for the body—the focus would be the soul—my soul, my wife’s soul, my children’s souls. Everything would be for the benefit of the soul and that is our real self-interest. That is our self. Prahlada Maharaja says: na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum, that people are self-interested—that is natural, everyone is thinking of himself—but we do not what our real self is. Unless we know what our real self is, we don’t know what our real self-interest is. And Prahlada says our real self-interest is to serve Vishnu, Krishna, and go back home, back to Godhead.

If we know just that much that “I am not the body but I am the soul within the body and the soul is part and parcel of Krishna, meant to serve Krishna,” that is enough to liberate us from material bondage, just that much, and it would cause a revolution in our lives. Even people who engage in religious formularies, like Arjuna, he was starting on that basis of religious principles, ethical principles, but he was still on the bodily platform. So people may go to the temple, they may worship at home, but the focal point can still be the body. They do puja so they can get material benefit for the body. If they go to the temple, they offer worship so they can get material benefit for the body. It is still the same principle. It is better than sinful life, religious life, it is definitely better than sinful life, but the Bhagavad-gītā begins from the point that “I am not the body. I am the soul within the body.” And we should act as soul in relation to the Supreme Soul. If we do that our whole life will change for the better.

It can be done gradually. As Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura one of our predecessor acharyas says, “Progress is a series of adjustments in the right direction.” We might find ourselves quite entangled in material pursuits. So we might have to make a series of adjustments in the right direction and that will help us to make progress. That itself will constitute progress and that will help us to reach the goal. But if we don’t have this knowledge, if we don’t act on this knowledge, then we are bound to suffer. We will just be floundering in the material whirlpool and eventually we will go down. No one survives. Everyone dies in this battlefield, hard struggle for existence. In the end everyone dies. Everyone loses. Therefore one should not remain in this helpless. . . that means one should not remain helplessly thrown by the waves of material nature but one should get in the boat of Krishna consciousness which will carry one to the shore, back home back to Godhead.

We used to sing this every morning in the Boston temple; it is a very nice prayer from the Tenth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: 

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

The meaning is that the material world is a vast ocean and there is danger at every step but for one who takes shelter of the lotus feet of Krishna that vast ocean becomes reduced, it shrinks, it becomes just like a puddle in the hoof print of a calf.

Although there is danger at every step the devotee crosses right over it. Earlier in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the sages say, “We think that we have met you (referring to the speaker of the Bhāgavatam) by the will of providence just to accept you as the captain of our ship which will carry us across the ocean in the dark age of Kali.” So we have a very strong boat, the lotus feet of Krishna, which can also be translated in the science of Krishna consciousness or could even be said to be ISKCON, which is meant to teach and engage people in the practice of bhakti-yoga, sanātana-dharma. Srila Prabhupada is the captain of the ship. He is presenting the same knowledge of the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we just have to get on board and cooperate with the captain. We will be protected from the stormy, turbulent waters and we will be brought to land safely on the other side. 

That is an invitation to all of you. Some of you are already on the way. It is an invitation to all of you. We hope you will accept it wholeheartedly because it will really be for your benefit. Hare Krishna.

Are there any questions or comments?

Amrit: We are the soul in body and we should think about serving the soul. Should the serving of the soul and the service of the body go hand in hand or should we just think about serving the soul by thinking more about Krishna and leave the service of the body?

Giriraj Swami: What do you think?

Amrit: [unclear]

Giriraj Swami: Yes. It is like this. There is another verse, very nice verse in the Eleventh Canto that says that the human body is like a boat that can take us back home, back to Godhead and the instructions of the Vedas are like the favorable winds that will propel the boat and the spiritual master is like that captain who will take control of the boat and guide it across. 

So the human body, Ṛṣabhadeva says in the Fifth Canto, the human body is temporary like every other material body but it does give one the facility to understand the science of devotion and to go back home, back to Godhead. So we want to take advantage of this human form of life and because the human body is a facility to realize God we want to take care of the body because if we don’t take care of it to a minimal degree with the basic necessities the soul will not be able to continue to live in the body. In other words we will die. The soul will leave the body. Then we will lose that special facility we have been given. Not only do you have a human body by which you can realize God but you already have come to the association of devotees which is very rare and very fortunate. So we don’t want to miss that opportunity. We want to take enough care of the body so that the soul can continue to live in the body and we can continue to progress in Krishna consciousness.

So to the extent that we have to work to keep the body and soul together—not to pamper the body like most people they want to pamper the body—but just to keep the body and soul together in a fit state to execute Krishna consciousness, that effort is not outside of devotional service. It is considered part of what you have to do to serve Krishna. But you should do it all in that spirit that I am taking care of the body not for the sake of the body but for the sake of the soul within the body so the soul can remain in the body, this valuable human form of life, and so I can really take advantage of it for Krishna consciousness, for spiritual realization.

That applies to the family members if you are the husband or the father, you are the provider, but they also should be. . . it should all be for the sake of Krishna consciousness ultimately. So it is good if they can also understand the science of Krishna, the science of the individual soul and the Supreme Soul and the relationship between them so that together you can progress in Krishna consciousness. But with or without them you should go ahead. In any case you have to go ahead. Pray and be nice to them so that they like you and they may also gradually participate more and more.

Yoga Rupini dasi: The answer is quite obvious I believe that you talked about being the soul and not the body. What could the husband have done? You said what he did do, the husband, the example of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples that were together and stayed together. Instead of giving her everything to try to satisfy her, was there another answer he could have done?

Giriraj Swami: I do not wish to take flight into the realm of speculation. It was just an example of the principle that when we try to satisfy a person’s mind or senses without Krishna, they are not satisfied. 

Advanced association always helps. They were in a somewhat remote place and they didn’t have so much association. So I am thinking maybe if they were in a place where they would have had more advanced association. Sometimes it can be like that like familiarity breeds contempt. The husband and wife don’t see each other as devotees so much and they need some other association of devotees to remind them of who they are and what their mission in life is. So I am thinking that would have could have been the best. One never knows. Sometimes because of one’s livelihood one feels he has to be in a certain place where he has work and can earn but then when you face the calamity after it all, you think, “What was the use?” In the end often you end up having to leave anyway and you realize you could have survived somewhere else anyway without all this hardship that resulted from the lack of association.

Devotee: Just now Maharaja as you were speaking there is another question that came up. In that situation would the preaching also help to minimize familiarity?

Giriraj Swami: This is a brilliant answer actually. Preaching. Yes. Actually it is not the same question but there is another discussion that came up in the Dallas temple and Nityananda Prabhu brought up the same point that preaching, that really gives you life, keeps you alive and fresh in Krishna consciousness, and it makes you appreciate devotees more. Because it happens so many times, Prabhupada would send a couple here to start a center, send a couple there to start a center, and by preaching they remained enlivened in Krishna consciousness and their relationship with each other remained spiritual. And that is also like that an idle mind is a devil’s workshop. They have too much spare time and they just think, “Oh, I wish I had this. I wish I had that.”

Prabhupada had a good friend, he was a friend of ours also, in Bombay, Mr. Brijratan Mohatta. He had been the richest man in what later became Pakistan after partition but then he came to India. His residence which was called Mohatta Mahal became the residence for the Jina family. He was very, very wealthy but very pious. There is the downfall on both sides so he was just speaking from the man’s side about the woman. He felt that things really changed. Previously the women used to do puja at home. They would do puja and japa and they were religious ladies. I remember when I first came to India—coincidentally these families were Marwari families—I remember the first time when I met a really wealthy man on my own was in Calcutta. His name was Mr. Tikmani. He had a steel mill. So I went to visit him at his home which was a little outside Calcutta near the factory. His wife was in the puja room chanting japa. He said that because of her japa and her puja he was able to be as wealthy as he was. [laughter] It was his level of appreciation of her activity. So Mr. Mohatta, he said that he saw it as the downfall of Indian families when the women stopped being engaged throughout the day in doing puja and japa and reading shastra and cooking, offering to the Deities, and so on, because what did they do with that time that they now had? They went shopping and he really felt that shopping was going to completely destroy the character of the women.

It is a way of life here. After 9/11 what message did President Bush give to the people of the United States of America? “Go shopping. Don’t let them defeat you. [laughter] If you are afraid and you stay at home they win. We lose. But if we go shopping we win. Our way of life prevails.” Now we are in economic recession. What is the solution? Go shopping. [laughter] We got to pump money in the system so people will go shopping. The whole way of life is based on shopping. The whole economy, it is all based on shopping. It is unfortunate because shopping isn’t that good of an activity.

Srila Prabhupada had a. . . very nice lady, she is still there, but she was a young girl, Gujarati girl newly married, came to America when Prabhupada was also just beginning in Los Angeles. She was very pure. Somehow she developed a very close relationship with Prabhupada. The American devotees then didn’t know how to cook that well so she would come to the temple in Los Angeles and cook for Prabhupada. He was very affectionate like a grandfather. He would come into the kitchen while she was cooking and they would talk. She was also very free in that relationship. 

She was like a girl with girlish enthusiasm but very pure goodhearted. She said, “Prabhupada, I have just come to America. I want to see one of the shopping centers.” Prabhupada said, “No, don’t go.” She said, “No, no, we don’t have these shopping centers in India. I just want to go once. I just want to see what it is like.” And Prabhupada said, “No, don’t go because when you go, you will see things that you don’t need, but by seeing them you will desire them and as long as you have material desires, you will have to take birth in the material world. So don’t go even once.”

Yes, we have to keep the body and soul together, so we have to go, we have to buy the vegetables and the milk and the grains, but we should. . . there is also this difference between men and women, like we have an idea what we want. We just go and we get it and we come out but some people, “Let’s see what is there. [laughter] By seeing things I will get good ideas. Let’s take our time. [laughter]” So there are so many things but the real thing is keep the body and soul together to serve Krishna and in that association of advanced devotees. 

In the Seventh Canto there is a nice prescription for ideal family life, and one of the basic instructions is that for three hours every day the family members should hear discourses about Krishna because hearing those discourses, hearing those messages will wake us up. This is like a dream, illusory dream, and hearing those discourses will gradually awaken us from that dream so we come to our actual position as eternal servants of Krishna as souls.

Lady: They say that we should chant “Krishna” and why not Allah and Jesus Christ because Muslims say that Allah is the supreme power and Christians say that Jesus Christ is the supreme power. And how do we correlate between these gods, supreme power? How do we know we should chant “Krishna” and not “Allah” or “Jesus Christ”? What is the relation between them?

Giriraj Swami: That is also a good question. There is only one Supreme Godhead but He is known by different names in different languages and cultures. But Krishna and Allah are the same Supreme Being but They are being called by different names according to the custom in different cultures and languages and scriptures.

Whatever religious tradition it is, it will include the practice of chanting God’s name. It is there in Islam; it is in Hinduism; it is in Christianity; it is everywhere. Just like we have thousand names of Vishnu, Viṣṇu-sahasra-nāma, so the Muslims have ninety-nine names of Allah. Just like we consider the perfection to chant the name of God at the time of death so Muslims also the same thing. I read a book because I used to go to Pakistan and teach there, and it is the same thing that the best thing that the friends and family members of dying person can do is to help the dying person to chant the name of God at the time of death, remember the name of God at the time of death.

So if someone is a Muslim and if he wants to chant “Allah Allah,” that is very good. We encourage them because ultimately Allah is the same as Krishna, the same Supreme Person. Does that answer your question?

Lady: Every bible has a different story for God, Rāmāyaṇa a different story. Did all these stories really happen because there are so many different stories?

Giriraj Swami: We have to examine each one. I can’t say that every story in every book is true or every story in every book is false. We have to see each one. 

As far as Krishna, we accept Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is the ripened fruit of the tree of Vedic scriptures. As far as Rāmāyaṇa, we accept Valmiki. There are many versions of the story of Rama but we accept Valmiki Rāmāyaṇa as the authority.

As far as the bible or the Quran, the same principles are there that we should love God, we should serve God. As far as the details of the stories, we don’t accept them as literal truth. We accept the idea that God created the world. We accept the principle but that God created the world in six days and on the seventh day He rested, we don’t accept that as a literal account of the creation in history. But we accept the principle that God created the world.

You have asked this question and I have given that answer. What do you think of that answer?

Lady: I think it is very confusing to believe in one God and to chant one name. What about Prahlada’s story, that story, this story. I don’t know why to start chanting “Krishna.”

Giriraj Swami: Where do you stay?

Lady: Irvin.

Giriraj Swami: This type of confusion is common. It will be clarified by association. This story about Prahlada and Nṛsiṁha, do you have a problem with it because you don’t believe it could be true or do you have a problem because there are so many different stories and so many different forms? There is Krishna playing His flute and there is Rama with His bow and arrow and there is Nṛsiṁha with His claws. 

Gentleman: What she always says is it is hard to believe that something which we have never seen and which we really don’t know, people are writing it from years and years. So it is basically a problem in believing. How can we suddenly start believing something that instead of Krishna, why can’t we simply say okay some Mr. X and start believing that Mr. X is a God and then chant his name whole day rather than chanting “Krishna” because then it is just a matter of just believing something that Krishna existed so we can say Mr. X existed and start believing in him. Her question is basically how suddenly you start believing in something or someone.

Giriraj Swami: Let’s put it this way, do you want to chant some name of somebody or you don’t want to chant any name of anybody? [laughter] Like in India they chant “rupiya, rupiya, paisa, paisa.” [laughter] Everyone chants. Everyone is chanting. Everyone is hearing. If they are not chanting about Krishna or Rama or Jesus or Allah, they are chanting about this politician, that politician, this movie star, that sports hero. They are chanting. Chanting and hearing is going on. You can’t stop it. There is no question that you are not chanting, you are not hearing, you are not reading. If they are not reading Bhāgavatam and Rāmāyaṇa, they are reading whatever—Time Magazine or The Dallas News. 

So how do you want to use your time? Do you understand that you are not the body? [lady nods yes] Okay. So you are the soul. You understand the soul will continue to exist after it leaves the body? Yes. Do you know what will happen to the soul when it leaves the body? Do you know what the different possibilities are?

Lady: I have no idea.

Gentleman: Rebirth. The soul will go into another body.

Giriraj Swami: Yes but the two are not different because you can take birth in a hellish planet or a hellish body or a heavenly planet or heavenly body, but you can come back to earth. Or you can go back home back to Godhead. You don’t have to take birth in any material body at all. You get liberated from the cycle of birth and death. 

Do you accept these possibilities are real? [lady agrees] Okay. So then what is the best of them? Which would you prefer? We will just make it simple: a hellish birth, a birth on earth again?

Lady: A birth on earth without any suffering. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: A birth on earth without any suffering doesn’t exist. Birth on earth is martya-loka. It is a place of death. Then there is elevation to a heavenly planet but that is temporary like Arjuna said even if he had sovereignty like the demigods in heaven, he still wouldn’t be happy because even if you go to heaven when your stock of pious credits is exhausted you fall down again and you suffer more. And then you get liberated from samsara and you go back home back to Godhead. You are still a person. You don’t disappear, you don’t merge and become one with brahman. You are still a person. You do everything that a person does but there is no suffering and you are with Krishna.

So now which of these choices? I will repeat the previous question just to make sure. Do you believe that all of these possibilities are real?

Lady: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: So which do you opt for? It is like you are at the train station so there is a list. There are different trains on different platforms. One is going to hell [laughter], one is going to earth with all the suffering, one is going to heaven, but you can only stay there for so long, and one is going to the spiritual kingdom. So which train do you want to get on?

Lady: The spiritual kingdom.

Giriraj Swami: Okay. We are saying that to reach the spiritual kingdom these are the things you do: you chant Hare Krishna, you associate with devotees, you read the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you offer your food to Krishna and take prasāda. This is the way you go to the spiritual kingdom. 

Now do you have a problem with any of these activities?

Lady: No.

Giriraj Swami: So then why don’t you just do it? Someone else wants to chant “Allah” or “Durga” or “Bush” [laughter] or I don’t even know these people are now, let them do that. Don’t bother what they are doing. You just be clear on where you are going and what you have to do to get there. Don’t even worry what they are doing.

I couldn’t help it but I saw some of the billboards on the way here. They were really bad. They are really tamasic. I couldn’t believe it. There was one—you can just see so much ignorance—I thought it was something else from a distance but it was so many advertisements for liquor. This one, it had—I probably shouldn’t pollute you all—but it had three bottles of whatever the beverage was and in the top of the first two was a slice of lemon or lime and then on the top of the third one was a full lime. Something about greed, praising the quality of being greedy. This is one of the gates to hell—kāma, krodha, lobha. Lobha means “greediness.” So it is really tamasic dragging people down into oblivion. That is what it is about just going into oblivion. And they are so clever. There was one drink like you were good at money. . .

Devotee: “Drink like you had the money.”

Giriraj Swami: Something like, “Drink as if you were good with money.” I think the idea was. . . what is the idea? [laughter]

Devotee: Whether you have a little money or a lot of money. . .

Giriraj Swami: I think the idea is if you are good with money, you can drink with confidence. I think that is it. They are mixing greed with intoxication. Everyone knows intoxication drags you down. To make money you have to be in the mode of passion. A devotee can make money—that is something else—but ordinary people making money is the mode of passion. And intoxicants is the mode of ignorance. This is the whole population. The mode of goodness is not even an issue. I am just thinking now what is this all about. What I am thinking is that people want money—the mode of passion—but the mode of passion, it drives you when you are working and you are getting exhausted and you are getting frustrated so you want some relief. A pious person to get relief from the mode of passion will go to the mode of goodness—go to the temple or go for a walk in nature or something in the mode of goodness. A sinful person to get relief from the mode of passion will go to the mode of ignorance—to intoxication and illicit sex and gambling. There are ads for those too. But they don’t want to lose the ability to make money. So I think what these advertisers are saying is that you can be greedy, you can be good with money, and still drink. It is really sick.

So let them do their own chanting and hearing and glorifying and you be fixed in your goal and in what you have to do to reach your goal and don’t bother about them. If someone asks you about Krishna, you can answer but let them do their chanting and hearing about their preference of beverage.

Devotee: In the Bhagavad-gītā Krishna says, “Whatever you do, do it as an offering to Me.” Does that mean a person who is working, a devotee is working, does that mean that he should carry out his work which is not just his devotional life, whatever he is working outside to maintain himself, should he do it to the best of his ability or should he just do it to maintain himself?

Giriraj Swami: We should be honest in our work—that is also part of dharma. We shouldn’t cheat people. So if we are working for some organization we should put in an honest day’s work. If we are doing business, we should conduct an honest business. But ultimately we are doing it to keep the body and soul together so we can serve Krishna. Some people by their karma happen to be wealthy so they can use the money to serve Krishna consciousness. But actually everyone should contribute some percentage of his earnings for Krishna consciousness even if they are not wealthy. Whatever you earn, yes, the basic is keeping the body and soul together so you can serve Krishna but some of the income—that is also recommended for grihasthas, charity—some of the money should be given in charity to support Krishna consciousness. 

It really depends on destiny. There was one man in Bombay, Dr. S.K Somaya, he helps the devotees, Somaya College. So he told me that because he had all these factories—his father began them, K.J Somaya—he said it is as difficult to run a pawn shop as it is to run a factory. It is the same process for him. So instead of running a pawn shop he runs a factory. But it is not in everyone’s destiny to do that. Some people will run a pawn shop or an ice-cream shop. But they should be an honest business, relatively honest business [laughter], and give some of the proceeds to Krishna consciousness.

I read a very interesting conversation with Srila Prabhupada. It might surprise you but he was speaking with the devotees about Back to Godhead magazine in Boston in 1970. Back to Godhead magazine was always thirty-two pages and they wouldn’t even really charge as such but they would ask for a donation. If people gave a quarter, then it was sufficient to pay for the cost and to produce some profit because temples were basically maintained from the profits from selling the books and magazines. So one devotee suggested, “Maybe we could increase the number of pages in Back to Godhead,” and Srila Prabhupada said, “Well, if you increase the number of pages, will you be able to get more for it?” So the devotee said, “No, people will still give the same amount.” So then Prabhupada said, “Then why do you want to increase the number of pages?” And the devotee said, “They will get more for their money.” And Prabhupada said, “This is also a business. Why should we give them more and not get anything in return?” [laughter]

That is the best business, selling books and magazines about Krishna, and you can make profit from it, you can live from it, you can spread Krishna consciousness. Each occupation has its laws, business has its laws. The law is you make profit. If you don’t make profit you can’t do business. But within whatever it is we should be honest. We shouldn’t cheat. We shouldn’t lie. We should earn an honest living. I am not sure if that was exactly what your question was.

Devotee: Do we have to endeavor in such a way that we have to be the best in whatever we are doing?

Devotee (2): He is saying is just working enough to earn a livelihood. Should you push yourself to the point that you are the best in your profession?

Giriraj Swami: It depends on your nature. Some people want to be the best. Tamal Krishna Goswami wanted to be the best. He didn’t like it when cars passed him on the highway [laughter]. He had a driver, a servant named Balarama, very nice, he is in Los Angeles, so Balarama told me that he was driving Tamal Krishna Goswami from Dallas to Houston and a car passed him and then another car passed and another car passed. He said, “Balarama, do you realize how many cars have passed us? I don’t want any cars to pass us and I want you to speed up and pass every one of the cars that passed us.” [laughter]

That is what I am saying. Some people, they work in an organization that is their nature, that is their ability, and that has its rules. Some people do business that has its rules. Different people have different natures. The main thing is never to forget Krishna, to always remember Krishna. But if you want to be the best, that is not bad. I think that is what Tamal Krishna Goswami thought, “If I am the best student, people will respect me. I am a devotee. I am the best student.” So in that sense if we are the best at something and people respect us because we are devotees so they get respect for Krishna consciousness that is like offering it to Krishna. But if you want to keep it for yourself, then it is maya. So anything—name, fame, money—they can be used for Krishna or for maya. None of them are good or bad per say.

Devotee: In continuation of the same thing, the nature is to try to strive to become the best. That might end up consuming so much time that you have no time for anything else. How does that tie in with being a devotee and being able to also progress in Krishna consciousness?

Giriraj Swami: That is why we have to have a certain routine, have maṅgala-ārati, chant sixteen rounds, read Bhagavad-gītā. We can’t let that pursuit of success eclipse our spiritual practices and devotional service. 

Say we are going to work eight hours a day for example, if that is what it is, within that eight hours we can be as efficient and effective as possible, but we shouldn’t let our work crowd out our Krishna consciousness.

Gopasana dasi: I am about to have a child and the question keeps coming to my mind that sometimes the principles of morality [?] in the material [?]. In the battlefield Arjuna was reluctant to fight. He was thinking of so many moral principles. I was just wandering anything for Krishna without any [unclear]. I was just thinking should we train our children in the principles of morality or not?

Giriraj Swami: In brief she says she is going to have a child. So should we train the child in moral principles?

Yes, both moral and Krishna consciousness. Rupa Gosvami says that in general a devotee should act in the mode of goodness. That means all those things: being truthful, being humble, being tolerant, being peaceful. We should act in the mode of goodness although a devotee, a true devotee, a pure devotee is transcendental, but he acts in the mode of goodness and an aspiring devotee acts in the mode of goodness so that from the mode of goodness he can more easily reach the transcendental platform. So all these qualities of goodness, peacefulness, tolerance, austerity, truthfulness, cleanliness, we should teach all of those certainly.

But if Krishna personally tells you to tell a lie like with Yudhisthira and Asvatthama, then you do it. But otherwise if it is not coming directly from Krishna or Krishna’s bona fide representative, then you act within the moral principles of goodness.

Gopasana dasi: When you go out on book distribution should you stick to the truth? 

Giriraj Swami: It depends on the result, if there is a favorable result. I am not sure exactly what an example would be. You want to give an example?

Gopasana dasi: I was in Delhi and there was this book marathon and the devotees were telling people even though it was not Gita-jayanti, they were telling people, “It is Gita-jayanti. You should buy this book.”

Giriraj Swami: You know all of Krishna’s pastimes are eternal. Every day is Gita-jayanti [laughter]. I don’t think it is harmful in a way but the thing is if someone finds out that it wasn’t Gita-jayanti, they might feel, “Oh, I thought these people are saintly and they. . .” I think it is always better, almost always better to tell the truth. You could say it is Gita-jayanti month. I think it is better to tell the truth.

Devotee: Gita-jayanti year. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: Ultimately we want people to develop faith in us so we want to act in such a way that they will develop faith in us and we shouldn’t say or do anything that could lead them to lose faith in us. But sometimes we have to take a little risk to preach as well. 

Once or twice I did this but like Prabhupada you have to be expert. You have to know whether you are expert or not but I remember once I approached a man to become a life member and he said he would think about it. I felt he would become a member and I knew who his friends were so I went to his friend and I told him that Person A had become a life member. So then Person B became a member. So then I went back to Person A. [laughter] I said, “You know your friend, Person B, he became a member.” “Okay, I will become a member.” [laughter] It all worked out. I didn’t do it very often. I only did it when I was pretty sure I would be successful. 

I am not saying it is a good example but good can be the enemy of best. So if good comes in the way of the best which is Krishna consciousness, like Maharaja Yudhisthira didn’t want to tell a lie. But it is good. Definitely we want to train the children to be honest.

Young boy: In the pursuit of having a lot of wealth and in the mode of passion someone forgets about their Krishna consciousness and you regain it later on in your life, would you start off from a beginning devotee or would you start off from where you ended your Krishnaa consciousness?

Giriraj Swami: How old are you?

Young boy: Eight.

Giriraj Swami: You are already planning to get into the mode of passion [laughter]. I was just joking. We should try to avoid forgetting Krishna because what you said you get in the mode of passion, you want to make a lot of money, you want to be very successful, you forget Krishna. So your question is if you come back to Krishna, can you take advantage of the progress that you already made. The answer is yes. You can take advantage of the progress that you made earlier but it is risky to forget Krishna because you don’t know when you will remember Him again. The other thing is getting in the mode of passion and forgetting Krishna, yes, if you forget Krishna, you just want to be successful, but you basically follow the principles like no eating meat, fish, or eggs, no gambling, no taking of intoxicants, and then you come back to Krishna consciousness, then it will be easier to start off where you left off, but if in the meantime you engage in sinful activities, then there are reactions and those reactions will make it harder for you to take up where you left off. It is a very good question.

Young girl: I was wondering what if you think of God for half your life and forget Him the other?

Giriraj Swami: What if you think of God for half your life and forget Him the other half. Which half comes first?

Young girl: [unclear]

Giriraj Swami: That is not so good. You think of Krishna for half your life and then you forget Him, you will have to take birth again and suffer until you can think of Krishna at the time of death. You want to think of Krishna at the time of death so you go back home, back to Godhead. But still, whatever you did in the first half of your life will help you later on. That is true.

Lady: What is the difference between the nature and the soul? How can we distinguish between both of them? Like a tree, is it nature or a soul?

Giriraj Swami: No, the tree is just a body. Just as we have a body, there is dog body, fish body, ant body, amphibian body, bird body, tree body, grass body, they are just different types of bodies.

Lady: So that is the soul then?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, within any living being there is a soul. There cannot be life without the soul. So anything that is alive, anything that grows, anything that reproduces, there is a soul.

Lady: What about a stone or a mountain, does it have a soul?

Giriraj Swami: In general I would say no. There could be exceptions.

Lady: [unclear] I don’t understand.

Giriraj Swami: There are some mountains that are said to fly. They have souls and then what we see as mountains may be the bodies of creatures after the soul has left. Like a tree, it is the body of a living entity, but the soul can leave the body of the tree and then the tree is dead. So it can be that there are mountains that are the bodies of living entities but it could be that what we are seeing is the body after the soul has left the body. So we don’t see the symptoms of life. It is like a log; a log is a piece of wood. Originally that log was part of the body of a living entity but now we see a log, that living entity has left that body, so we don’t see the symptoms of life, but at one stage it was part of the body of a living being.