SB 10.9.19 – Lessons from the Month of Damodara

Giriraj Swami: Before we discuss today’s verse, I shall give some background as to the significance of the verse in relation to Srila Prabhupada’s final pastimes. As some of you may know from reading Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta, TKG’s Diary, or Srila Prabhupada’s Antya-līlā, a few days before Govardhana-puja, which we observed just six days ago, Srila Prabhupada expressed a desire to go to Govardhana Hill by bullock cart to observe the festival in the association of the vrajavāsīs there. And he asked His Holiness Lokanath Swami, who had toured around India with a bullock cart, to arrange the bullock cart for his journey to Govardhana Hill. And Lokanath Swami in turn engaged Trivikrama Swami to make some of the arrangements.

Now, from one point of view, Srila Prabhupada’s desire was beautiful, but from another point of view, for him to make the journey by bullock cart to Govardhana Hill, to camp out at Govardhana Hill, as he said he would like to do, and to endure all the difficulties that the journey and stay at Govardhana would entail seemed like it would not only be physically painful for Srila Prabhupada, but it could also be fatal.

And therefore, the disciples of Srila Prabhupada became polarized on the issue of whether he should in fact be taken by bullock cart to Govardhana Hill for Govardhana-puja. The main devotees who felt strongly that he was not physically well enough to endure the hardships of the journey were the disciples involved in his personal service; Bhakti Charu Swami, Bhakti Svarupa Damodara Swami, Bhavananda Goswami, and Tamal Krishna Goswami.

But the others were also very senior devotees with long histories of service to Srila Prabhupada. And they felt that our duty as disciples is just to follow the order of the spiritual master and not to question it and not to try to impose our will or our convictions on the spiritual master. As it was, it was a very emotional time because Srila Prabhupada was so sick, and it did seem as if there was every possibility that he could depart at any moment.

And especially now, when the one group felt that taking Srila Prabhupada to Govardhana Hill would actually jeopardize his physical well-being, the feelings were very strong. And on the other side as well, “This could be Srila Prabhupada’s last instruction to us and how can we disobey it? Now is the time to really act as proper disciples.”

But it is true, from the physical point of view, Srila Prabhupada was very ill. He had hardly eaten for months. Maybe he would drink some juice or other liquids, semi-liquids. And mainly, he’d just lay on his bed, listening to kirtan. And he hardly had any flesh on his body, he was mainly just skin and bones. And so, he didn’t have any flesh to protect him or pad him. And even if the devotees put mattresses in the bullock cart, which they had planned to do, even then, it would have been a very arduous journey. And many disciples felt he could actually leave his body on the way.

But Srila Prabhupada was very adamant, he just would not listen to any argument in opposition to the plan to go to Govardhana Hill. And when someone brought up the point to him, “Srila Prabhupada, you could die on the way,” Srila Prabhupada replied, “You think I will die, but I say I will get cured.”

And that statement further fueled the controversy, because the devotees on the one side said, “You don’t need to worry about him dying. He said he wouldn’t die, but to the contrary, he would be cured. So, you should just have faith in his words.” And the other side said, “Well, what does it mean he’ll be cured? It means he’ll leave his body and be cured of the disease of the physical body because he’ll leave it behind.” So, whatever Srila Prabhupada said or did was interpreted differently according to the different perceptions and understandings of the different devotees.

So, as the time approached, Trivikrama Swami returned from Mathura with a bullock cart, which was waiting outside the gates of the Krishna-Balarama temple. And to some devotees, it was like when Akrura came from Mathura on the orders of Kaṁsa to bring Krishna and Balarama to Mathura for the wrestling match. And as the Bhāgavatam says, krura means cruel, and akrura means not cruel. But they were thinking, This Akrura is actually krura, cruel, he is coming to take Krishna away from us. And he did that; he drove his chariot from Mathura and parked it in Vrindavan. So, devotees were seeing the bullock cart in the same way.

So, maybe two days before Govardhana-puja, Akiñcana Krishnadasa Babaji Maharaja, who was a godbrother of Srila Prabhupada’s and a very advanced devotee, Srila Prabhupada said that he was a paramahamsa. And it’s true, he was always absorbed in relishing the nectar of the holy name. So, he was coming to meet Srila Prabhupada in the evening, and the disciples thought, He is a godbrother and he is a friend. Maybe we can approach him and he can prevail upon Srila Prabhupada not to go. And Bhakti Charu Swami, he was always attending Srila Prabhupada in the last days, he was going to be the one to speak to Babaji Maharaja because he knew Bengali, and Babaji Maharaja did not know much English.

So, Babaji Maharaja came, and Bhakti Charu Swami spoke to him. In the meantime, Tamal Krishna Goswami and Bhavananda Maharaja were upstairs in what had been Srila Prabhupada’s bedroom in the end. When Srila Prabhupada became so ill, they moved the bed downstairs into what had been exclusively his darshan room and more public area. And of course, Srila Prabhupada was lying on the bed, he had almost no strength at all, even speaking was very difficult, what to speak of moving.

So, he was on his bed and Babaji Maharaja was seated on a chair near the bed. Bhakti Charu Swami was there. Tamal Krishna Goswami and Bhavananda Maharaja came downstairs and entered the room in a very disturbed state of mind.

And Tamal Krishna Goswami said to Srila Prabhupada, “Thinking about you traveling by bullock cart on the roads to Govardhana has put us into too much anxiety. The roads are very bad, full of holes, potholes, and all sorts of ridges and crevices. And even if you are on mattresses on the bullock cart, you’ll be jostled, and it will be very painful for you.” And Bhavananda said, “Yes, Srila Prabhupada, I’ve also been in too much anxiety.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “I do not want to put you in anxiety. You have suffered so much for me in Mayapur. That is not my business to put you in anxiety. So, you want that I should not go?” “Yes, Srila Prabhupada,” he said. “Then I will not go.”

And then, he turned to Babaji Maharaja and said, “Just see how much they love me.” And he said, “My right hand and my left hand, I cannot refuse.” And Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “The way you deal with us, Srila Prabhupada, you drive us mad with anxiety for you, with love for you.” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “That is my duty.”

So, devotees thought, I also had the same thought, that Srila Prabhupada was dealing with us in such a way as to bring out our love for him, to bring us to the point of expressing our love for him to him through our words and actions. And then two or three days after Govardhana-puja, Srila Prabhupada left.

But even after he left, the controversy raged on. The one side felt, “You killed Srila Prabhupada. He said that he wouldn’t die if he went to Govardhana Hill, but rather, he would be cured. But you didn’t let him go to Govardhana Hill as he wanted, so in effect, you killed him.” And the other side was thinking, If we had tried to take him to Govardhana Hill, he would have died on the way, that would have killed him. At least this way, he was relatively free of pain and surrounded by disciples in his own temple, Krishna-Balarama temple, in his own room. And all the devotees, not only his disciples, men and women and children, could be with him, but his godbrothers, anyone could be with him, and they were with him at the end.

So, the controversy raged on. And I myself was a bit confused because the arguments on both sides made sense. From a certain point of view, Srila Prabhupada was just skin and bones, even the slightest movement could cause him pain, he had no energy, he could hardly even speak. So, how could he possibly endure the rigors of the journey? And then from the other point of view, he expressed his desire, our duty as disciples is to execute his will. We cannot understand his mind, we cannot understand his position, we should just accept his instructions and follow them. Of course, personally, I was a little more inclined to the group who wanted him to stay. I had more of a relationship with them and I was with them so much of the time, but still, I was in doubt.

So, a few days after Srila Prabhupada left, I was in his room chanting japa. It might have been around this number of days after he left, and my mind was preoccupied with this question, “What was the right thing to do? What is the correct understanding?” So, I was just pondering this question and not getting any answer. And I was chanting very intensely in Srila Prabhupada’s room.

And at one stage, I went behind his bed and was chanting, there were and are many beautiful pictures on the walls in Srila Prabhupada’s bedroom, actual paintings. And behind his bed are his books, some bookshelves. And I noticed the new volume; the Tenth Canto, Part Two had come out.

The book had been presented to Srila Prabhupada, he opened it, he looked at the paintings. We all could see he was just filled with so much love for Krishna, just seeing the paintings. Anyone could perceive how much love Srila Prabhupada had for Krishna.

So, my eyes fell on that book. I thought, Well, let me take a look. And I opened it up, and it happened to open to the Chapter of the Tenth Canto, which describes Mother Yasoda binding Lord Krishna with ropes. I thought, This is very appropriate for the month of Damodara. Every night, we sing the Dāmodarāṣṭakam, which describes the dāmodara-līlā. I thought, How appropriate. And so many of the verses in the Tenth Canto very closely parallel the verses in Dāmodarāṣṭakam. I mean, you can find verses that say the exact same thing in the Bhāgavatam and in the Dāmodarāṣṭakam.

So, I’ll read a few verses leading up to the verse that’s written on the board, which to me, had the most significance. So, Chapter Nine, Text Nine.

TEXT 9

tām ātta-yaṣṭiṁ prasamīkṣya satvaras
tato ’varuhyāpasasāra bhītavat
gopy anvadhāvan na yam āpa yogināṁ
kṣamaṁ praveṣṭuṁ tapaseritaṁ manaḥ

TRANSLATION

When Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa saw His mother, stick in hand, He very quickly got down from the top of the mortar and began to flee as if very much afraid. Although yogīs try to capture Him as Paramātmā by meditation, desiring to enter into the effulgence of the Lord with great austerities and penances, they fail to reach Him. But mother Yaśodā, thinking that same Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, to be her son, began following Kṛṣṇa to catch Him.

TEXT 10

While following Kṛṣṇa, mother Yaśodā, her thin waist overburdened by her heavy breasts, naturally had to reduce her speed. Because of following Kṛṣṇa very swiftly, her hair became loose, and the flowers in her hair were falling after her. Yet she did not fail to capture her son, Kṛṣṇa.

TEXT 11

When caught by mother Yaśodā, Kṛṣṇa became more and more afraid and admitted to being an offender. As she looked upon Him, she saw that He was crying, His tears mixing with the black ointment around His eyes, and as He rubbed His eyes with His hands, He smeared the ointment all over His face. Mother Yaśodā, catching her beautiful son by the hand, mildly began to chastise Him.

TEXT 12

Mother Yaśodā was always overwhelmed by intense love for Kṛṣṇa, not knowing who Kṛṣṇa was or how powerful He was. Because of maternal affection for Kṛṣṇa, she never even cared to know who He was. Therefore, when she saw that her son had become excessively afraid, she threw the stick away and desired to bind Him so that He would not commit any further naughty activities.

COMMENT

Then the Bhāgavatam describes how she tried to tie the ropes around His waist but the ropes were always the length of two fingers too short, and how perplexed she was that she could not make the ropes fit around His belly, because every morning, she would tie His belt around His belly. And her lady friends also were struck by wonder. The Bhāgavatam describes that they were all smiling. They were perplexed, but at the same time, they were smiling, “What is this wonderful child?”

TEXT 18

sva-mātuḥ svinna-gātrāyā
visrasta-kabara-srajaḥ
dṛṣṭvā pariśramaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ
kṛpayāsīt sva-bandhane

TRANSLATION

Because of mother Yaśodā’s hard labor, her whole body became covered with perspiration, and the flowers and comb were falling from her hair. When child Kṛṣṇa saw His mother thus fatigued, He became merciful to her and agreed to be bound.

COMMENT

So, our acharyas, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti and others, have commented on two important words in this verse; pariśrama, which means hard labor or endeavor; and kṛṣṇa-kṛpā, Krishna’s mercy. And they say that gap that prevented them from binding Krishna was overcome by the combination of on the one side, pariśrama, Mother Yasoda’s hard labor, and on the other side, by kṛṣṇa-kṛpā, by Krishna’s mercy. And when this combination is present; the devotee’s tireless efforts and Krishna’s mercy, Krishna can be bound by the devotee.

TEXT 19

evaṁ sandarśitā hy aṅga
hariṇā bhṛtya-vaśyatā
sva-vaśenāpi kṛṣṇena
yasyedaṁ seśvaraṁ vase

TRANSLATION

O Mahārāja Parīkṣit, this entire universe, with its great, exalted demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā and Lord Indra, is under the control of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yet the Supreme Lord has one transcendental attribute: He comes under the control of His devotees. This was now exhibited by Kṛṣṇa in this pastime.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This pastime of Kṛṣṇa’s is very difficult to understand, but devotees can understand it. It is therefore said, darśayaṁs tad-vidāṁ loka ātmano bhakta-vaśyatām (Bhāg. 10.11.9): the Lord displays the transcendental attribute of coming under the control of His devotees.

By His one plenary portion as Paramātmā, the Lord controls innumerable universes, with all their demigods; yet He agrees to be controlled by a devotee. In the Upaniṣads it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead can run with more speed than the mind, but here we see that although Kṛṣṇa wanted to avoid being arrested by His mother, He was finally defeated, and mother Yaśodā captured Him. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam: Kṛṣṇa is served by hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune. Nonetheless, He steals butter like one who is poverty-stricken. Yamarāja, the controller of all living entities, fears the order of Kṛṣṇa, yet Kṛṣṇa is afraid of His mother’s stick. These contradictions cannot be understood by one who is not a devotee, but a devotee can understand how powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa; it is so powerful that Kṛṣṇa can be controlled by an unalloyed devotee. This bhṛtya-vaśyatā does not mean that He is under the control of the servant; rather, He is under the control of the servant’s pure love.

COMMENT

So, when I read this series of verses, especially Text Nineteen and the purport, I thought, This is what Srila Prabhupada was showing us. This is what he was instructing. When we dealt with Srila Prabhupada, we were always filled with awe and reverence because he was Srila Prabhupada, he was so heavy. Guru means heavy.

Once, one of our godbrothers was the GBC and initiating guru for Mauritius. And a newspaper editor named Ramalala, well, he actually owned the weekly newspaper, he came to meet the ISKCON leader. And he was an intelligent person, but somehow, in his youth, he had gone to Russia and he’d been affected by communist ideas, he was a bit of a communist and a skeptic. But he was very open-hearted, he would often publish articles by devotees. Later on, I had a weekly column in the newspaper. But he was open, he was a little argumentative, a little challenging, and he had all these different communist ideas and various misconceptions about Vedic philosophy. And the ISKCON leader was really heavy with him. Really, really heavy.

And then at the end of the meeting, he said, “You said I was pretty heavy with you. Was Srila Prabhupada that heavy with you?” Mr. Ramlala laughed and he said, “Compared to Srila Prabhupada, you were not heavy at all.”

So, I mean, Srila Prabhupada was very heavy, and we knew he had the full force of Krishna, the full force of the disciplic succession behind him. So, it’s not easy to argue with Srila Prabhupada. And whenever any devotee tried to put forth an argument against his going to Govardhana Hill or against his traveling by bullock cart, he would refute it without a moment’s hesitation.

But the theme of one of the instructions of the dāmodara-līlā, as explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and in the Dāmodarāṣṭakam, is that Krishna cannot be controlled by love that is mixed with awe and reverence. That perception of the Lord’s opulence and majesty and the awe and reverence that awareness gives rise to, creates a distance between the devotees and the Lord. And therefore, they cannot approach Him with such intimacy.

And by this pastime, Lord Krishna Damodara revealed or proclaimed that He is conquered by pure love, which is freed from conceptions of His grandeur and majesty, which is free from the limiting effects of the devotee’s awe and reverence. And He actually takes pleasure in such intimate reciprocation. He is always being offered prayers with awe and reverence, but sometimes He wants to be chastised. And who can chastise Krishna? Only the purest of devotees can chastise Him. Sometimes He wants to wrestle with friends. Who can wrestle with Krishna? Only the purest of His devotees can play with Him in that way.

So, I was thinking, This is what Srila Prabhupada was teaching us. He was bringing devotees to the stage where their love for him was so great and their fear of being separated from him was so strong that they could break through those barriers. Because Prabhupada could be very intimidating. I mean, although he was physically small in stature, and although devotees like to remember his loving kindness, he could be very intimidating. Tamal Krishna Goswami often said that our relationships with Srila Prabhupada were a combination of love and fear, and they were. Of course, fear of displeasing him, fear of offending him, and fear of failing him.

But it happened like that, that some of the disciples were able to sort of break through the barriers of awe and reverence. And Srila Prabhupada himself created the barriers, in a sense. And that awe and reverence is necessary because neophytes, if they are not afraid of committing offenses, if they are not afraid of transgressing the rules and regulations, they can get into a lot of trouble. And it’s one of the most basic offenses, guror avajñā, to disobey the order of the spiritual master.

So, if we are going to take liberties with the instructions of the spiritual master, we have to be very pure, we have to really be sure that we are questioning the order on the basis of love, on the basis of selfless service and pure affection, not out of laziness or convenience or desires for our own satisfaction.

Reading this verse and purport, I was convinced that this is what happened. Krishna is independent, no one can control Krishna, but He likes to be controlled by the love of His devotees. In fact, the love of His devotees is an expansion of His very self. That bhakti shakti is an expansion of His very self.

So, I thought, This is what happened. He wanted to bring these devotees to a higher level of Krishna consciousness, he wanted to draw out their affection, and he was successful. And then when their affection and their transcendental anxiety overwhelmed their fear of transgressing the rules and regulations and etiquette, he agreed to be bound by them. It’s not that they forced him to stay, but he willingly agreed to be bound by their affection. And he said to Babaji Maharaja, “Just see how much they love me. Just see how much affection they have for me.”

At the same time, we have to appreciate that every devotee will act on the basis of his or her own understanding. And devotees have different understandings. And it’s not that one is right and the other is wrong, they are just different understandings, they are approaching devotional service from different perspectives.

Srila Prabhupada never said anything against any of the groups, he just dealt with each disciple individually and with the group of disciples. And he didn’t say anything to discourage any of them. And the mood of Vrindavan līlā, the mood of the Dāmodarāṣṭakam is that Krishna is conquered only by pure loving devotion, which is free from the sense of awe and reverence. But it doesn’t mean that there is any defect in the servants of the Lord in Vaikuntha.

The Lord as Narayana is pleased with their service, and they are fully satisfied serving Him in their mood of awe and reverence. But from a certain external point of view, from an analytical point of view, we can say that the love of the residents of Vrindavan is more powerful, because the love of the residents of Vrindavan can conquer Krishna, can control Krishna. Krishna likes to be controlled by their love, and He takes pleasure in it.

So, it is a very subtle topic, in a way, but it’s a topic that we deal with every day during the month of Damodara when we recite the Dāmodarāṣṭakam, and it was brought to life in a very real way for all of us in Srila Prabhupada’s last days with us. Hare Krishna.

So, are there any questions or comments? Jaya Keshava or Prajapati Prabhu?

Devotee: Yes, Maharaja. The only thing that bothered me in this discussion is the blurred line between Krishna and the Damodara pastimes and Prabhupada in his departure pastimes. The spiritual master and Krishna are different.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, yes. That is a very important point. There is always a difference between the disciples’ relationship with the spiritual master and the vrajavāsīs’ relationship with Krishna. With the disciple, there is always awe and reverence, there is always awareness that he is my spiritual master, my eternal master, and I am his servant, his eternal servant. So, that part always remains in the relationship between the disciple and the spiritual master.

But at the same time, along with the awareness of the spiritual master’s exalted position and the disciple’s inferior position, there can be a development of love. I mean, that’s the whole purpose of our activities, to develop love for Krishna and His devotees. It is implicit in this discussion, but since you asked such a pertinent question, I will make it a little explicit.

The difference between vaidhi-bhakti and rāgā-bhakti, every devotee begins on the platform of vaidhī-sādhana-bhakti. And all the scriptures; Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu and the comments of the acharyas in the disciplic succession, tell us that in order to be eligible for rāgānugā-sādhana, one must have lobha, which means an intense greed or eagerness to serve Krishna in a particular way, following a particular resident of Vrindavan.

The qualification for vaidhī-sādhana-bhakti is sraddha, faith in the instructions of the scriptures; sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. And until lobha awakens, and you cannot force it, it just happens spontaneously. That’s why rāgānugā-bhakti is called spontaneous devotional service. You can’t force it. It just happens spontaneously.

So, the scriptures say and the acharyas say that until that lobha awakens naturally, one must follow the rules and regulations strictly. So, in one sense, rāgānugā-bhakti is not something that we need to do anything special to cultivate, because until there is the appearance of that lobha or greed, one is not eligible for it, and as it develops in the course of practicing vaidhī-sādhana-bhakti and preaching, preaching is a very important part of the whole thing.

Maybe three months ago, I was speaking with my godbrother Devamrita Swami about this idea that some devotees have that you have to do something special to develop lobha or rāgānugā-bhakti, and he said, “Everything is there in Prabhupada’s books. You just have to strictly follow the process of devotional service and preach. And when the volume of your preaching and practices reaches a certain critical mass, you sort of go beyond that threshold. And that natural eagerness to serve Krishna in a particular way following the residents of Vrindavan will take place.” So, he said, “What’s the problem?” So, this is a very important point.

Another point is that. . . Well, as Rupa Gosvami writes in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu,

TEXT 158

sevā sādhaka-rūpeṇa
siddha-rūpeṇa cātra hi

COMMENT

In mature rāgānugā-sādhana, one serves in one’s internally conceived spiritual form in kṛṣṇa-līlā, and externally, one serves in one’s sādhaka, body, in what we would say gaura-līlā ISKCON is an expansion of gaura-līlā. In fact, in the beginning, when Srila Prabhupada first got the land in Mayapur, actually, Tamal Krishna Goswami was the one who went ahead and got it, so some devotees were sort of lamenting, “Well, it’s a little far from the birthplace, we didn’t get land at the birthplace.” And Srila Prabhupada replied that the pastimes, the līlā, are more important than the birth, janma. And ISKCON is participating in Lord Chaitanya’s pastimes of expanding the saṅkīrtana movement. And that’s more important than Lord Chaitanya’s birth or being near the birthplace.

So, this is caitanya-līlā. And the same devotees in kṛṣṇa-līlā who chastise Krishna or wrestle with Krishna or defeat Krishna in sport and get carried by Krishna on His shoulders, the same eternal residents of Vrindavan, when they appear in gaura-līlā, they all have some degree of awe and reverence. The love is still there, but there is still some awe and reverence. They are conscious that Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is Krishna. They are also conscious that He is their acharya.

So, even though Gadadhara Pandit is Srimati Radharani, Svarupa Damodara Gosvami is Lalita devi, Ramananda Raya is Vishakha, and the Six Gosvamis are mañjarīs, and other of Mahaprabhu’s associates are cowherd boys in kṛṣṇa-līlā, but they always have some awareness of His exalted position and they always deal with Him with respect. And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu too is always conscious when He is with them of His position as the acharya.

In Vrindavan, the vrajavāsīs are not aware that Krishna is God, or they may be aware of it but they don’t think of it very much, they forget, and Krishna also forgets. Under the influence of yoga-māyā, both Krishna and the devotees forget that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But in gaura-līlā, when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is dealing with His devotees or with the public, He never forgets that He is in the position of acharya, and they also never forget.

So, that difference is there. Even on the highest level of love for God, that difference is there. There is always love, but there is also awe and reverence. There is an awareness of relative positions of superiority and inferiority in terms of the spiritual hierarchy.

And that was certainly true of the disciples. I mean, up to the end, they were afraid. But their loving anxiety overpowered them and they just came out what was within their heart. They didn’t forget that he was Srila Prabhupada, they didn’t forget he was their spiritual master, they didn’t forget that they were his disciples, they didn’t forget he was the final authority, but their transcendental loving anxiety was so strong that it just overpowered their sense of formal restraint.

And Prabhupada also encouraged them. After discouraging, discouraging, discouraging, discouraging, you could say, testing, testing, testing, testing, in the end, he himself said it, they didn’t say it. He knew what was in their mind, but they didn’t say it. He said it, “So, you want that I should not go?” They said, “Yes.”

Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja. So, as far as the scriptures in that verse, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ, these people who were serving Srila Prabhupada on that level of being so intensely wanting him not to go were people who had also intensely qualified themselves by preaching so much, by really trying to please him.

So, there are these other people who were saying, “No, we have to follow his order,” out of basically awe and reverence, if we may qualify it in that way. So, how do we bring it to our state in the society where you may have Srila Prabhupada put in state the GBC as executors of his will, and his will is definitely he becomes pleased when people are taking the initiative to preach?

But sometimes a disciple of Srila Prabhupada may want to help with the preaching, and the GBC might say, “No, this is not practical for this place,” or whatever the reason is, both equally wanting to please Sria Prabhupada according to their decision. Where do you balance that somebody is trying to qualify themselves to go beyond awe and reverence, and at the same time, they have to work within a paradigm?

Giriraj Swami: Well, we don’t really want to try to go beyond awe and reverence. What we want to do is increase our love for Krishna. And preaching is a very important part of it. Srila Prabhupada said, “The way to develop the love of the gopīs for Krishna is to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world.” Because in essence, the mood of the gopīs is to do anything to please Krishna, to sacrifice anything to please Krishna. And what pleases Krishna most in the material world is preaching. And so, a devotee who sacrifices to preach is the dear most servant of Krishna. Krishna says, “There will never be one more dear to Me than he, and in the end, he will come to Me.”

And preaching means to support the preaching mission. I mean, say if you take book distribution, the devotees who are typing, managing. . . In fact, Prabhupada said, “Book distribution is the highest, but even higher than distributing books is managing the book distribution party.” So, I mean, preaching includes speaking directly about Krishna, that’s our constitutional position, to glorify Krishna, but it’s expanded, bṛhad-mṛdaṅga. I mean, kirtan, we do kirtan with the clay mridanga, but there is also the bṛhad-mṛdaṅga, and there is also the greater kirtan, bṛhad-kirtan.

Now, as far as following our authorities, managers have practical things to consider like income and expenditure, so they may want us to do something that we consider to be not preaching, for the sake of the organization that sustains the preaching. And in the archetypical situation, you would follow what your authority says. Personally, I always wanted to preach, I didn’t want to manage, but Srila Prabhupada wanted me to be the Temple President in Juhu, so I had to manage. So, how would it sound if I said to Srila Prabhupada, “Srila Prabhupada, preaching is the highest. Why do you want me to stay back and manage?” It would have been absurd. That was the preaching - building the Juhu temple and managing the Juhu temple. That was the preaching.

And once, I even mentioned to Bhavananda Maharaja just a little after Prabhupada left when we were opening the Juhu temple, “Okay, now the temple’s open but I really want to preach. I feel I’m more suited to preach, and I think I can do better if I preach.” And Bhavananda said, “If we think we are preaching, we are in illusion. Actually, Srila Prabhupada’s the one who’s doing the preaching and we are just assisting him. So, if he wants you to assist him by managing the Juhu temple in the service of his preaching, then that’s our service and that’s our preaching to assist his preaching.”

But sometimes a manager could get too preoccupied with paying the bills and not encourage the effort to preach to new people or even to devotees as much as he could. And these are complexities that arise along the way that we have to deal with on a very individual and case by case basis.

Devotee: As a devotee, as his [Unintelligible 01:11:58] approach the management [Unintelligible 01:12:00].

Giriraj Swami: That happens more than you might think. A devotee is very concerned about developing a project. He is ready to take the initiative and invest the funds. But the management is reluctant. Usually, the management is reluctant because they feel threatened by the devotee. They feel that if the devotee takes up the project, then the devotee will become more prominent in the project than they are.

Now, there will definitely be differences of opinion on how good or bad that is depending on how much faith you have on the devotee who wants to take up the project and how much faith you have in the management. I mean, I could elaborate on it, but I don’t think I need to in the class. But the management, they may feel, “He has money, he is dynamic, he is charismatic, he is competent, but we don’t know how much we can really trust him. He may sort of take over the project and things could run amok a bit. It’s a risk.”

Of course, Prabhupada said, “To preach, you have to take risks.” They may calculate, “That’s a risk we don’t want to take. We are going along. We may not be the greatest, but we are going along and we don’t want to take the risk.” I mean, “It could be great what he does, but then again, it could end up in disaster and we don’t want to take the risk.” So, I mean, a lot has to do with faith, and one’s faith should be properly placed. So, if we misplace our faith, we may be disappointed. More than disappointed, there could be other repercussions, so it’s delicate.

Yes?

Devotee: When Krishna forgets that He is God, is it a great time for Him, is He really forgetting, or is He lying a bit, or is He really forgetting?

Giriraj Swami: No, He forgets. When Krishna trembles in fear, He is not pretending to be afraid, He is not playing a role like an actor in a drama, He is actually afraid.

This also gives rise to a very intricate discussion, which has been conducted most expertly by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, because this appears to be a contradiction that Krishna, on the one hand, has the attribute of sarva-jña, which means He knows everything, but on the other hand, He also has the attribution of mugdhā, which means bewildered. So, the two are contradictory, and it also has relevance to us, who, in particular, want to serve Krishna in Vrindavan. We pray to Krishna to engage us in His service. The author of the Dāmodarāṣṭakam, he is not praying to the Paramātmā, he is not praying to the Lord in Vaikuntha, he is praying to Lord Damodara in Vrindavan.

Now, when Lord Damodara is mugdhā, when He is bewildered, when He is shivering in fright and crying and rubbing His eyes, how is He going to think of this bhakta in the material world who’s praying to Him? The all-knowing Krishna, the all-powerful Krishna, He can be aware of the prayers of His sādhakas, but not the mugdhā Krishna who’s totally absorbed in the moment filled with fright of Mother Yasoda. So, how to resolve this contradiction?

This question is raised by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, and he says that Krishna’s energy, and we’ll say yoga-māyā, although the acharyas use different technical terms, but in broad terms, we could say yoga-māyā, His internal potency, spiritual energy, knows the heart of Krishna. She is Krishna’s energy. Krishna is in control of her, but He may sort of give her the authority to act independent of Him, according to His general purpose.

I might go to sleep and I’ll tell Namaruchi, “Okay, Namaruchi, come back in a half hour and wake me up.” So, when I’m asleep, I mean, you can see the difference between me and Krishna, but anyway, when I’m asleep, I’m not conscious that I’m Giriraj Swami or that he is Namaruchi dasa. And when he comes in the room half an hour later to wake me up, I can’t stop him because I’m asleep. So, at that moment, he is in control, I’m not in control, but his being in control is based on the superior order, “In half an hour, you should come and wake me up.” So, yoga-māyā knows what Krishna wants, and she executes what He wants. And within that, He can forget that He is God, and she will remind Him that He is God when required.

Now, when is it required? It is required only for one purpose, and that is for when Krishna needs to know that He is God to serve His devotees. Otherwise, He has no interest in Vraja in anything other than serving His devotees. So, when Krishna and the cowherd boys are playing, the cows wander away and they get caught in a forest fire. And the forest fire is consuming the trees and not just coming closer to Krishna and the cowherd boys but surrounding them. If Krishna thinks He is just an ordinary cowherd boy like the others, then they’ll all be consumed in the fire.

So, yoga-māyā, knowing Krishna’s ultimate purpose to please His devotees and serve His devotees and protect His devotees, will remind Him, “You are not just a cowherd boy like the others. I mean, You forgot because You were wrestling and absorbed in that mood, playing and sporting, but You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have to save them. They are Your devotees; they are dependent on You.”

So then, He’ll become aware of His opulence, swallow the forest fire as if it was nothing, bring everyone back to life, make everything beautiful just like it was before, and go back to playing with the other cowherd boys and again forgetting that He is Krishna, and they also forget that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So here, we have the author of Dāmodarāṣṭakam praying to Krishna. He wants to see that form of Krishna, completely bewildered by fear of Mother Yasoda, or completely controlled by her. And he is praying, “Please give me prema-bhakti.” Well, how is Krishna going to hear that? He is absorbed in that love of Mother Yasoda who’s treating Him like her naughty child. He is feeling like He is an offender and He is admitting He is an offender and hoping she won’t beat Him with the whipping stick.

So again, that is yoga-māyā. Yoga-māyā comes in and says, “There is one sādhaka who is praying for Your mercy. He doesn’t want to serve Narayana in Vaikuntha or Rama in Ayodhya or even Mathuranatha in Mathura or Dwarkadhish in Dwarka. He only wants to serve You in Vrindavana. So, please do what You like.”

So, there is that interplay between Krishna and His internal potencies who are acting, ultimately, under His direction, but He gives them power of attorney so that He doesn’t have to worry about all the businesses. He gives them power, “You deal with it, and when you need, you call Me. And meanwhile, I’ll forget.”

Yes, Narottamananda Prabhu?

Devotee: Maharaja, [Unintelligible 01:24:41] beautiful pastime where Advaita Acharya becomes so disturbed. Of course, they come to Lord Chaitanya, every time He comes out of His samadhi, He starts to serve all the devotees and He starts touching the feet of the disturbed [Unintelligible 01:25:00] so angry and even dragged him out of the house. He starts to hit him with [Unintelligible], and then his wife is saying, “Stop this. You are going to kill him [Unintelligible], and then at that point, Lord Chaitanya gives in and they all start laughing about it. [Unintelligible 01:25:42].

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, yeah. That’s true. That’s a very important point. And I think it’s one to consider at the end of the talk, and that is that in terms of līlā, Mother Yasoda is chastising Krishna or cowherd boys, gopīs, but it all comes to selfless service, pure love without any desire for personal sense gratification or mental speculation or any type of personal happiness. Their happiness comes from Krishna’s happiness. And so, we have to be very careful if we are going to take liberties with some point of scripture or etiquette that it’s only for the sake of Krishna and not for any personal reason of my own.

And I actually asked this question of Srila Prabhupada, because there is another story in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that after Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would have His lunch, He would lie down, and His servant Mukunda would massage His feet and legs.

So, one day, it just so happened that after His lunch, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu laid down right at the threshold of the room and He was blocking the entrance way, and there was no way that Govinda could get in the room to massage Mahaprabhu’s lotus feet other than stepping over Him, which is, according to etiquette, an offense. I mean, you don’t step over anyone’s body, what to speak of the superiors or spiritual masters or the Supreme Lords. But Govinda considered, “If I don’t do it, I won’t be able to massage His lotus feet.” So, he stepped over His body, came into the room, and massaged His lotus feet.

And that day, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu rested for a considerable period of time. And when He came to external consciousness, He saw Govinda sitting there. “So, Govinda, it’s so late and you are still here. Have you taken prasāda?” And Govinda said, “No, no, how could I take prasāda? In order to leave the room, I would have had to step over Your body.” Then Mahaprabhu said, “But how did you get into the room? You must have stepped over My body.” And Govinda thought, Yes, I could step over His body for the sake of His service, but I cannot step over His body for the sake of my sense gratification. So, that should be the principle. I mean, the superior may take that humble position.

One devotee told me in the early days, I think she was hanging a picture on Prabhupada’s wall, and maybe without thinking, but to hang the picture, she stepped on his bed. And then she realized what she had done and told Srila Prabhupada, “I’m so sorry. I stepped on your bed.” And Prabhupada said, “For Krishna’s service, I don’t mind if you step on my body.” So, the superior may have that mood, but the followers should not take advantage of that mood but always remain the selfless servant.

And again, one other pastime. When Rupa and Sanatana were living in Vrindavan, Sanatana Gosvami had the idea, because they were living very simply. But anyway, Sanatana Gosvami had the idea that if he could get some nice cooking ingredients, he could make a feast and offer it to his Deity, Madana-mohana, and then give the remnants to his brother.

Actually, it was Rupa Gosvami who had that younger brother. So, a little while later, a young girl from the village came with all sorts of cooking ingredients; grains, vegetables, ghee, milk, sugar. And he thought, Wow, I was just thinking if only I could get some nice ingredients, I could make a nice offering and serve my older brother, Sanatana Gosvami, and a very beautiful girl he’d never seen before came, and she left.

So, he prepared the feast, invited Sanatana Gosvami, and served him. And Sanatana Gosvami saw the feast. They were living in the forest, “Where did you get all these ingredients?” So, he told the story about the beautiful young girl. He never saw her before and didn’t know who she was. And later, he thought to inquire, but by then, she had just disappeared. And then, Sanatana Gosvami said, “Oh, you have made a great mistake. That was Srimati Radharani. We have come to the Vrindavan forest to serve Radharani. And instead of serving Her, we have taken service from Her. What a calamity! It couldn’t have been worse. We came to do service and instead, we took service.”

So, that’s the mood of pure devotees. They don’t want to take service. The master wants to give service, but the servant doesn’t want to accept the service from the master because otherwise, if we want to, it means we want to enjoy. So, it should be like that.

I’ve seen that with very good devotees, they won’t take service. Of course, a preacher does take service for the sake of the mission, but in a personal sense, I’ve seen devotees, they just will not take service from their spiritual master or other superiors. And although the spiritual master will try, they very carefully protect themselves from accepting service from him. So, that’s the real ingredient, that pure love and mood of selfless service. And then it is pure, then it is sublime, and then it is beautiful. Otherwise, there is too much room for hypocrisy and duplicity.

But if we chant offensively and preach vigorously and serve selflessly, Krishna will help us. It’s a gradual process. We are conditioned to being selfish and wanting things for ourselves. Just see the difference; we go to God, we are praying for things for ourselves. And Sanatana Gosvami is saying, “We’ve come to the Vrindavan forest to serve Srimati Radharani and we’ve taken service from Her. What a calamity!” We can just worship that mood from afar and pray that one day, after many lifetimes, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ, we may get a glimmer of that pure love. Hare Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Sri Sri Radha-Damodara ki jaya! Nitai-Gaura premānande Hari Haribol!