CC Adi 1.59 – Meeting Srila Prabhupada

Giriraj Swami: Please repeat:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya 

We read a verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is quoted in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. It appears in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta Ādi-līlā Chapter One

TEXT 59

tato duḥsaṅgam utsṛjya
satsu sajjeta buddhi-mān
santa evāsya chindanti
mano-vyāsaṅgam uktibhiḥ

TRANSLATION

“One should therefore avoid bad company and associate only with devotees. With their realized instructions, such saints can cut the knot connecting one with activities unfavorable to devotional service.”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This verse, which appears in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (11.26.26), was spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa to Uddhava in the text known as the Uddhava-gīta. The discussion relates to the story of Purūravā and the heavenly courtesan Urvaśī. When Urvaśī left Purūravā, he was deeply affected by the separation and had to learn to overcome his grief.

It is indicated that to learn the transcendental science, it is imperative that one avoid the company of undesirable persons and always seek the company of saints and sages who are able to impart lessons of transcendental knowledge. The potent words of such realized souls penetrate the heart, thereby eradicating all misgivings accumulated through years of undesirable association. For a neophyte devotee there are two kinds of persons whose association is undesirable: (1) gross materialists who constantly engage in sense gratification and (2) unbelievers who do not serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead but serve their senses and their mental whims in terms of their speculative habits. Intelligent persons seeking transcendental realization should very scrupulously avoid their company.

COMMENT

And the next Text is Text Sixty, another verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam

TEXT 60

satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido
bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ
taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani
śraddhā ratir bhaktir anukramiṣyati

TRANSLATION

“The spiritually powerful message of Godhead can be properly discussed only in a society of devotees, and it is greatly pleasing to hear in that association. If one hears from devotees, the way of transcendental experience quickly opens, and gradually one attains firm faith that in due course develops into attraction and devotion.”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

This verse appears in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (3.25.25), where Kapiladeva replies to the questions of His mother, Devahūti, about the process of devotional service. As one advances in devotional activities, the process becomes progressively clearer and more encouraging. Unless one gets this spiritual encouragement by following the instructions of the spiritual master, it is not possible to make advancement. Therefore, one’s development of a taste for executing these instructions is the test of one’s devotional service. Initially, one must develop confidence by hearing the science of devotion from a qualified spiritual master. Then, as he associates with devotees and tries to adopt the means instructed by the spiritual master in his own life, his misgivings and other obstacles are vanquished by his execution of devotional service. Strong attachment for the transcendental service of the Lord develops as he continues listening to the messages of Godhead, and if he steadfastly proceeds in this way, he is certainly elevated to spontaneous love for the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

COMMENT

So, these two verses describe the necessity of associating with a bona fide spiritual master, with devotees. And it is a process that repeats itself day after day, year after year, generation after generation, millennium after millennium. It is something that all of us have experienced in our lives—those of us who are on the path of progressive development of Krishna consciousness. In my own case, my first association with any devotee really came when I met Srila Prabhupada. 

As a child, around the age of eight or at most ten, I was walking home from school, and I came to an intersection—there was quite a big road that I had to cross on the walk back home. And while stopping at the road, waiting for a break in the traffic, I looked across the road into the distance, and there were many trees—there was a park and many trees. I lived in a suburb of Chicago, and I somehow got some sort of inkling or intuition that. . . I got sort of, some sort of inkling or intuition that people are suffering, and that in the future, I will have a mission to relieve them of their suffering. And I was, as I mentioned, only eight or ten years old. I certainly remember the experience, but I had no idea of what it meant. 

Then, as I matured and entered high school, I had the idea to attain perfection. At the time, I read a book by Erich Fromm called The Art of Loving. And from the book, I got the idea that perfection meant to be able to love. He explained that love is not a feeling, but it is a process or an activity. So, I developed the idea that love was the solution to all problems. And so, I entered the university. And in the university, somehow, many of my friends were older than I was. One of them was named Randy Meyer, and he was older. And I guess I was quite naive. I, maybe, led somewhat of a sheltered life, and I would see that sometimes he would just go into his room and lie down and not want to get up. And I would go into his room with the idea that love could cure all ills and solve all problems. I would spend time with him hoping that my love would release him from his misery. But, I found that there was something in him that did not allow him to receive my love or maybe even perceive it. And then I thought, I have to go deeper. It is not so simple that just by giving someone love, you can cure all their ills and solve all their problems. 

So, I became a major in the Department of Psychology. And the Department of Psychology at Brandeis University was very progressive. The Chairman of the department was Abraham Maslow, and he was developing, what he called, a third force in Psychology. Up until then, there were two major forces or schools of thought: one was behaviorism which basically studied the human organism as if it were an animal—stimulus and response. And one of the first in that field was Pavlov. He was a Russian psychologist who did experiments with dogs, and then later in America, the main authority was B.F. Skinner who did experiments with rats. And the other major school was Psychoanalysis founded by Sigmund Freud which studied basically people’s psychological weaknesses or abnormalities. 

So Abraham Maslow said, “We are not going to study rats, and we are not going to study unhealthy people, but we will study healthy people and find out what is common to them,” and develop a theory or a science of what he called self-actualization, in which the individual would realize his full potential. And he said that there is a hierarchy of needs that on a basic level, we need food, shelter, clothing. And then, after that level of need, there are social needs to be accepted and loved, whatever. And in this hierarchy of needs, the highest was the need for self-actualization to realize one’s full potential as a living being. And he found that quite common to self-actualized persons were peak experiences, and in these peak experiences, they felt some sort of unity or harmony within the universe, and between themselves and the universe or creation or all that exists. So, I was in intrigued, and none of the other departments really spoke anything to me in any case. So I entered that department. 

And at the same time, I was reading books on eastern spirituality. And I wanted to attain perfection in that way. Anyway, one day, Professor Maslow told a story that he woke up, and he was trembling. He was experiencing various symptoms. And he wasn’t sure what they were, so he phoned a colleague of his who was also a psychologist and asked, told him what his symptoms were and asked him what is it. And his colleague said that you are suffering an anxiety attack. And Professor Maslow told us that he had written chapters in books on anxiety attacks, but when he himself had one, he couldn’t recognize it. So then, I understood there is a difference between theoretical knowledge and practical realization. 

Another thing I found in the department, although they discussed very lofty ideas, was that within the department, there was a lot of bickering over position and appointments, although the predominating force in the department was this third force, but the Behaviourists, they still wanted Professors appointed in their school, and the Psychoanalysts wanted Professors appointment in their school. And there is competition over appointments, over promotions, over the distribution of the budget. And I thought, these people discuss very high ideas, but when it comes down to it, they act just like ordinary people. So, I thought, maybe Psychology isn’t the way. 

So, I continued reading books covering a wide range of eastern philosophies and practices. And finally, I came to the conclusion that I need a guru, that I cannot achieve self-realization just by reading books or performing practices on my own. So, then my mission became how to find my guru. And Brandeis, given the nature of the department of Psychology especially, invited many swamis and yogis and teachers. Actually, how much time do we have? When does.. Does anyone know what the schedule is? I mean I could abridge this story but so much would be lost. The other way is I just go as far as I can, and then continue next time. I don’t even. . . we will see how. . . Yes we will do that. 

So, one of the guest speakers was a famous hatha-yogi from India who had an ashram in New York. He gave a lecture, and he said that by practice of yoga, one could master control over one’s involuntary muscles. And one could actually command his intestines. And he said, you can command your, I forget the names, but ascending colon advance, and then it would the move stuff along. Transverse column advance—then it would move it further. And then, descending colon advance, and it would move it down and then rectum release. So, I thought, Well is this really the goal of yoga? Is this going to help me attain the perfection of life? 

But, still I kept an open mind and I thought, all right, let me, maybe, he is just mentioning one of the lower-level benefits, but maybe there is more to it. So, I told the organizers of the lecture that I would like to speak to the Swamiji. So he said, “Swamiji is going directly to the airport after the lecture.” I said, “Well, can I ride in the car with him?” He said, “No, but you could probably get a lift with some of the other disciples and come to the airport with them.” I said, “All right.” So, I got in the car with the other disciples, and the main topic that they were discussing in the car was the food they missed since moving into the ashram, primarily pizza. And I was also attached to pizza, so I was listening, but I thought, This isn’t very impressive, they have come to live in the ashram to practice yoga to learn from the master, and all they are talking about is the different types of food they miss. But, still I kept an open mind. I thought, anyway, they are just the students; we can’t really judge completely from the students, but we meet the master. So, we arrived at the airport, and there was the master with his long flowing orange robes and long beard and hair, smiling very beatifically with the twinkle in his eyes. It was really the picture of Indian spirituality. And one of his young lady disciples, he is just getting ready to leave, she came up to him, and they embraced very warmly and tightly. And then I thought, This is not my perfect master. 

Then, there was another, more of a philosopher, from India, and he gave a full day seminar—a morning session and an afternoon session, and the hall was packed. I could hardly get in. I mean, he was in a smaller hall, the other yogi was in the auditorium. So okay, during the lunch break, I approached my professor. He was the main one who was organizing the speakers. And I told him I want to meet the speaker. He said, “Why do you want to meet him?” I said, “Well, I am looking for a guru, and I want to see if maybe he is my guru.” He said, “Oh! He doesn’t accept disciples; he doesn’t even touch money.” So, I thought, If he has knowledge that can help people, then why for the sake of some artificial renunciation or show of detachment should he refuse? So, I thought, he is not my perfect master. 

Then, I heard about a Zen master who had an ashram in upstate New York. I had actually read his book, and he had studied Zen from a Zen master in Japan who was supposedly certified as enlightened. And the enlightened Zen master in Japan had certified the Zen master in New York as being enlightened. And one weekend, he was having an introductory weekend, I guess, from Friday evening till Sunday afternoon. So I thought, Let me investigate. So, I went to the ashram, and one of the students opened the door, and I walked in. I saw some of the other students. And they didn’t seem very lively or happy, but again, I thought, Well, they are just the students, we can’t judge completely just from the students. 

So then the course began. We were told how to sit cross-legged with our backs erect, and each of us had, we sat around the room facing the wall, and we were told to sit cross-legged with our backs erect, and to meditate on some riddle—Koan—one famous one is, you have heard the sound of two hands clapping. What is the sound of one hand clapping? Now so, the idea of the riddles is that you cannot get the answer with your logical mind, and eventually you have to give up the use of your logical mind and go beyond it. I mean there is a logic to it, but the mind is the source of bondage, and you have to go beyond the mind. And if the Zen master detected that you were slumping, or you were distracted that your mind was wandering, he would walk around the room with a stick, and then, he would hit you on the shoulder with his stick. So, the exercise was pretty austere, and the threat of the Zen master coming and hitting you on the shoulder with the stick was fearsome, but I endured it because I wanted to reach my goal. I wanted to become, find perfection. I wanted to find perfection. 

So, during the lunch break, everyone went to the dining hall. They had wood benches and tables and served a probably macrobiotic diet. And so, I sat at the table with the master. I wanted to find out about the master. So, he told one of the students. . . I didn’t hear what the student said. I could only imagine, but the master said, “Yes, you are right. I shouldn’t have lost my temper.” So, I thought, He lost his temper, but then I read in the books that Zen masters appear ordinary. So I thought, Well, maybe this is just part of it, he appears ordinary, but maybe he is extraordinary. So, I finished the weekend and returned to the University. I wasn’t very impressed but I hadn’t eliminated him the way I had eliminated the others. And then within two weeks, the same Zen master was invited to speak at MIT, also in the Boston area. And I went, and he gave his presentation. And at the end, one lady raised her hand and asked about Vedanta. And the Zen master replied, “I have enough trouble keeping up with Zen; don’t ask me about Vedanta.” So then, I thought, He is not my perfect master.

Now, I was becoming hopeless. I mean, there were others that, there were others. And I was despairing, how am I ever going to meet my perfect master? I met so many others as well, and finally, one day I saw on the University campus an advertisement—Lecture Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Swami Bhaktivedanta, Schwartz auditorium, such and such time. So, by then I was so discouraged from all these swamis and yogis that I met, I was losing hope. But, I took note of it. But, I was already losing hope. So, the night of the lecture, I had a program to see a movie at Harvard Square in Cambridge also near in the Boston area. I was already a vegetarian, so I invited a few friends over, and we had spaghetti and some vegetables and soup and bread. And then, at the end of the dinner, we were all going to see the film, an art film. But, I was remembering that poster that I had seen on campus. So, everything was moving along towards getting in the car and going to the movie. 

And I said, “There is a lecture on campus tonight on the Bhagavad-gītā by a Swami, and maybe we should go to the lecture.” So, my friends did not like this idea. Especially, one lady friend, she became very upset. And she said, “Why can’t you be like other people? Why do you always have to be running after these swamis and yogis?” And I was the type who didn’t like to displease people, especially her and my other close friends, male friends. So, I tried to go along with what they wanted, but something inside of me kept pushing me that, “You must go.” So, I kept trying to agree, but I couldn’t. This force within me just kept pushing, and they were adamant, especially the one young lady. So, but I was desperate. I could not overrule this force within my heart that was impelling me to go to the lecture. So finally, as a compromise, I said, “Okay, this will be the last swami I ever go to.” All right, that was it. 

We got in the car, drove to the University and entered the auditorium. And there was Srila Prabhupada on the stage, and he was surrounded by disciples. And later, I learned Satsvarupa, he was leading the kirtan. Because of the whole argument at the apartment, we only reached in time for the last kirtan. So, Satsvarupa was leading the kirtan. And the auditorium, it was quite modern, quite tasteful in its own way, it had bare brick walls. The sound of the kirtan was just reverberating throughout the hall, and students were getting up from their seats and jumping up on the stage and joining the kirtan and dancing with the devotees around Srila Prabhupada. And I was also really affected by the kirtan, and I also felt like getting up and jumping on the stage and joining the chanting and dancing, but I looked at my friends. This will definitely be too much for them, so I just stood up in my place. I stood up, and I was sort of there swaying back and forth and singing and clapping. 

Then, at the end of the kirtan, one of the devotees announced that. . . because they didn’t have. . . the temple didn’t own any motor vehicles then. I don’t know what they arranged for Srila Prabhupada, but one of the devotees announced that if anyone has a car and is driving either to Boston or Cambridge, please meet us in in the lobby of the auditorium because we need a lift. So, we were going to Harvard Square, and I had a red rambler station wagon. Do they even use the term station wagon now? Yes, it could hold a lot of people. So, I went to the lobby and the first devotee I met was Baradraja, and he was intoxicated with Krishna. And he just blurted out that in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna showed His universal form to Arjuna. And His universal form was more brilliant than hundreds and thousands of suns. And when Arjuna saw the universal form, his knees were quaking, and he said, “Please Krishna, I cannot bear to see this form. Please show me Your original form.” And he just described the whole thing. It is like, Wow, I think this person is really high up there. So then I said, I heard the announcement, and we are going to Harvard Square. I have a station wagon; I can take some of the devotees. Okay, so they all piled in. I don’t know how they fit. But, I was driving. 

And then, there was the lady, young lady, and then, another lady devotee named Jahnava. She was in the front seat, and then, there was another lady devotee Saradia and a number of men, and they just squeezed in the back seat, and then, the back compartment. And Satsvarupa squeezed in the back compartment with my best friend who was named Gary. And so I was hearing Satsvarupa and Gary arguing, and Gary was saying, “Ultimately, everything is void.” And Satsvarupa was saying, “There is no void in the creation of God.” And I was sitting in the front hearing, and I thought, I really, I was really smart so I had read. I turned around and told them something I had read in a Zen book which I thought would solve the whole problem. So I said, “It is not void, and it is not not void, but to give it a name, we call it the void.” Well, that brilliant profound statement had absolutely no effect. And they continued their argument. I could hear it going on. I thought, All right, let them argue, what can I do? 

So then, I spoke to Jahnava, and I asked her all these questions that were on my mind. So I said, “What about Zen?” So, she said that it is as if you are watching a movie on a screen, and you see all these images, and it looks real, but actually it is not real. They are just images on screen. And if you withdraw your consciousness from the screen, you will find there is a beam of light, and if you follow the beam of light back, it comes to a point, seems like that is the void, but behind that point is a projector, and behind the projector is a person who’s operating the machine. And I thought, Wow, this was the best explanation of Zen that I had ever heard from anyone, and it went further than Zen, to something I had never even imagined. So, I was very impressed. 

So then, I asked, “Well, what about Yoga Nanda?” because I had read the book autobiography of the Yoga Nanda. I said, “What about Yoga Nanda?” She said, “Oh, he is just a shopkeeper. You go to his ashram, and he just keeps in stock whatever you might want. You want Shiva, he is got Shiva on stock. You want Durga, he is got Durga on stock. You want meditation, he is got meditation and stuff. You want sacrifices, he is got a sacrifice. Whatever you want, he keeps it in stock.” Wow, and then, she said, “At his ashram, he has a monument to Mahatma Gandhi, and he calls Mahatma Gandhi a worker for world peace. Mahatma Gandhi was not a worker for world peace. He was working for India’s political independence. He doesn’t even know who Mahatma Gandhi was.” Wow! This woman is so powerful. I mean, I have never heard anyone talk like this with so much conviction and authority and truth, but she was just a young girl, twenty years old or twenty-two years old. I knew that this authority couldn’t just be coming from her, that she had to be getting her authority from someone else. And I presumed it was from her guru, so I was really eager now to meet the guru. 

So, like this we were discussing, and finally, we got to Harvard Square where I was to leave them off. And then I was going to go to the art film. So, I let them out, and I realized, “Oh my God! I don’t know how to contact them. I don’t have their address or their phone number or anything.” So, I parked the car at Cambridge circle and ran after them, and the first devotee I caught, he moved a little more slowly, and he spoke slowly; I also do that. And his name was Patik Baba. So, I caught up to him, and he looked at me, and he said, “You see all these people—people at Harvard Square, they are just like sleepwalkers. They don’t know who they are or where they are going. They are just like sleepwalkers.” Oh wow, these people are on such a high level. I thought, I really want to meet the guru. But he was speaking, in such an intriguing way, I was just listening to what he was saying. And then suddenly my concentration on his words was interrupted by the sound of honking horns, and I realized, Oh my God! I parked my car on the side of Cambridge circle, and I am causing a traffic jam, and all the cars are honking their horns wanting someone to move that vehicle that was parked. Okay, quickly, give me the address, give me the phone number, give me the address. 

So, I went the next night, and the little temple room 26, no 95 Glenville Avenue in Allston, Massachusetts. It was packed, but I managed to get in the room. And Srila Prabhupada was speaking, but he was actually introducing another speaker. He said, “We are very fortunate to have with us a devotee from Montreal, and now we will ask him to speak a few words.” And then, Prabhupada’s disciple Hamsaduta spoke. He spoke nicely. And then Prabhupada spoke, and because he had a quite a thick Bengali accent then, and I was not familiar with the subject at all, I couldn’t really understand that much of what he said. But at a certain stage, he quoted a verse from the Bhagavad-gītā, and he said, “Out of many thousands of men, hardly one will seek perfection,” and I thought that is me. He is talking about me. So, I was very interested in what he had to say. 

And at the end of the talk, he asked for questions. So, I raised my hand and I asked the question that was burning within my heart. And I said there is so many yogis and masters, and each one advocates a different process of self-realization, and each one says that his method is best. So, how do I know which is actually best? And he replied very intelligently. He asked, “What is your goal?” Because I am asking what is the best means, but then the question is what is your goal because you will adopt the means that is suitable to the goal. Then he said, “Do you want to serve God? Or do you want to become God?” He said, “If you want to become God, that means that you are not God now, and how can “not God” become God?” He said, “God is always God. He doesn’t have to become God by practicing yoga or meditation.” And then he said, “Krishna is God. He is God when He is playing on the lap of Yasoda. He is God when He is speaking on the battlefield of Kurukshetra. He is God when He is in Dvaraka. He is always God. He doesn’t have to become God by yoga or meditation.” And then he said, “If you. . . Yes, God is within you, He is in your heart, and you can become godly but you cannot become God.” Then he said, “But, if you want. . .” He said, “If you serve, if you want to serve God, and you sow the seed of service to God, then God will provide the sunlight and fresh air and everything necessary to make. . . And if you water the seed with chanting, then God will provide the sunlight and fresh air and everything else you need to make the plant grow. But, if you want to become God, why should God help the competition?” Then he said, “God is in your heart; He is ready to help you, but if you don’t want to serve Him, you are only cheating yourself.” 

So, at this stage, I got the distinct impression that Srila Prabhupada knew everything about me; that he was seeing right through me, through the walls of the temple, out onto the streets, down the roads, right to my apartment, and he was seeing into my apartment, into my bathroom, onto the wall, where I had pinned up a sign that I had written in very ornate letterings with different color, a sign that read, that said, “You are God.” Just to remind myself in case I forgot. And I felt Srila Prabhupada is talking to me, and he is seeing that sign in my bathroom. And at the end of his presentation, he asked me, “So, what do you think? You want to serve God? Or you want to become God?” So, by then, I knew that I should say that I want to serve God, and I knew that is what I had to do. So, I began to say, “I want to serve God,” but I knew he knew everything that I couldn’t cheat him. So I began, “I want to serve God, but I realized actually I wanted to become God.” He said, “Yes.” Then, I knew I had found my perfect master for whom I had been searching, and then I offered my obeisances and surrender. 

I knew I found my perfect master, and I had to surrender to him, and I wanted to surrender to him. So, I kept my head down on the floor for quite a while. At the time, I mean, I thought I was showing my surrender, but there was also another element which is that I felt that I had been exposed in front of the whole temple for my abominable desire to become God. And I was afraid to lift my head up because I imagined that everyone would just be looking at me and glaring at me, “Oh! He wanted to be God. He wanted to become God.” So, part of it was I just didn’t want to have to face the humiliation of facing the people in the temple. But, then I heard sounds that indicated that food was being served. And I heard other sounds that indicated that the people who were eating the food were really relishing it. So, I thought okay, well they are distracted now. It is probably safe to come up. 

So, I came up and I saw, instead of seeing all these people looking at me and grimacing and staring at me, when I got up, I saw some people did look towards me, but they were smiling and beaming and happy. So, I felt relieved, Oh, this is nice, this is nice. And then, there was this big plate of prasāda in front of me. It looked very exotic, it is very colorful, I mean, there was rice which was white, and then there was, I think, dahi vada which they made—it looked a little yellow, and then there was chutney that look, and the pakoras. I mean just so many different colors. I have never seen them in such a plate. So, I took one piece of something and put it in my mouth, my teeth bit through it, and there was this explosion of taste. And I was like, there is like a hard outer shell, and I bit through the outer shell and there was a soft inside. It was, later I figured, it was a pakora. And wow! I have never tasted anything like this! And then, I went around the plate tasting the different items that each one was extraordinary. I thought, Wow, everything about this is wonderful, just perfect. 

So, anyway many things happened in that week when Srila Prabhupada was there, but again because we have some time restraints. . . So, finally after a week or so, all the devotees were in a sort of excited mood, so I asked what is happening? And the devotees said, “Srila Prabhupada is leaving, and we are getting ready to take him to the airport.” So, I thought, Prabhupada is leaving! I didn’t know that he would ever go anywhere because from the moment I met the devotees in Boston, he was there. I just assumed he would always be there. So I was a little concerned. So they said, “Would you like to come?” I said, “Yes, I would like to come.” So, we all drove to the airport, and I had my vehicle, and they had another vehicle for Srila Prabhupada. And at the airport, I saw all the devotees were crying. So, I asked one devotee Arundhati, “Why are all the devotees crying?” And she said that Srila Prabhupada said, “On the absolute platform, meeting and separation are the same—both are occasions of ecstasy.” So, the answer struck me. It sounded like a perfect answer, but still there was some doubt whether it is really practical. And then Prabhupada boarded the aircraft, and the devotees were waiting in the departure lounge, and they were not leaving. So again I asked, “What is happening?” And Arundhati replied that Srila Prabhupada said that when the spiritual master leaves, you should watch the plane until it completely disappears in the sky, just like the gopīs watched Krishna’s chariot when it left Vrindavan until it disappeared in the distance. So we waited, and the plane disappeared, and we left. 

But still that doubt remained. I thought everything about Krishna consciousness is perfect, the philosophy, the process. I had wonderful experiences chanting which I haven’t had time to share with you tonight, the prasāda, and the devotees, and everything seemed perfect. But I thought, maybe this is the one defect that the spiritual master leaves. So that doubt remained. And then one day at Copley Square, we were chanting in front of the subway station, and suddenly I felt Srila Prabhupada’s presence descend on me. It was so tangible; I just knew he was there. And I felt some feeling, some sort of ecstasy, and then I thought about Srila Prabhupada’s statement that Arundhati had quoted that on the absolute platform, there is no difference between meeting and separation—both are occasions of ecstasy. And I thought, Yes it is true, it is true. And I concluded, Yes, everything about Krishna consciousness is perfect. 

And now and then, in the years to come, my main, you could say, joy in life was bringing people to meet Srila Prabhupada. And then, after he left physically in 1977, I was also thinking well now what will I do? But based on that early experience, and of course, so many other experiences since then, I feel I can still introduce people to Srila Prabhupada that they can still experience his presence, still experience his love, his compassion, his mercy. And that by reading his books and following his instructions and chanting the holy names and associating with devotees, people can come in touch with him and get the benefit of the philosophy and process that he came to give us. 

So, this is the beginning of what I read. In the beginning, this is the beginning of associating with the devotee. The powerful messages of Godhead that came from him entered my heart and changed me. From that association, I took up the practice of Krishna consciousness, and as described in the second verse from the Third Canto, one feels progressive encouragement as one follows the instructions of the spiritual master, and one makes advancement. And at the same time, one loses the taste for material association and material topics. It doesn’t mean that when we go to work, we can’t have normal interaction with ordinary people at work. Or, if we have family members who are not on the path of devotional service, it doesn’t mean we can’t have normal interactions with them, but it means that we should not associate with them intimately. We shouldn’t take their advice on spiritual matters because they will always give that same type of advice, “Why can’t you be like other people?” That is the advice they’ll give. So yes, we can have normal, sort of, polite interactions with them, but not intimate association. The intimate association we should have with devotees, and that will move us along this wonderful path of Krishna consciousness. Hare Krishna. So, I don’t know what. . . I could ask for questions, but I mean, I say I am constrained by time, but actually I am not. It is a special occasion. You are all very advanced. Yes, I mean outside of Kartik maybe, but during Kartik, Damodara, He couldn’t be bound by His mother’s ropes, so it is part of Damodara. All right, well, we will. . . Yes. . . 

Devotee: Yes, I had a question that sort of confused me. I know that it is considered good to discuss about Krishna with other people to spread Krishna consciousness. One way is through book distribution, giving your friends copies of the Gītā, and so forth. There was one thing that I just read even if it goes in the gift shop, I think I have read this before. It sounds like basically if you hear about spiritual topics from non-Vaishnava devotees, it is like drinking milk from a snake or something like that. So, I guess what I am saying is since I am not, since I am not. . . I guess since I don’t have a spiritual master, and therefore I am not a Vaishnava devotee, I am just an ordinary person, who’s interested in Krishna consciousness, but isn’t spiritually advanced so to speak. So, when friends ask me questions about Krishna consciousness and stuff like that, and usually I have told them things such as there are three modes of nature – goodness, passion, ignorance. And basically, hopefully that there are eight million four hundred thousand species of life, and depending on. . . And basically that happiness and sadness are based on what you have done possibly in this, in the past of this life or the previous life or before. So, if I say all these things, since I am not a Vaishnava devotee, will my words poison, or should I just tell them to go to the temple and have your questions answered?

Giriraj Swami: That is a good question. That verse of Vaishnava, mukhodgīrṇaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam yes, that milk is very nourishing, but if milk is touched by the lips of a serpent, it causes poisonous effects. That refers especially. . . yes, it refers to hearing from non-devotees, especially Mayavadis. Although you are not an advanced devotee, let us say, but there are different stages in devotional service: ādau śraddhā—first is faith, tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo—then associating with devotees, then bhajana-kriyā. Now, the stage of bhajana-kriyā includes initiation, but there are still stages before initiation. So, if you have some faith and attraction for the messages of Krishna, and you are associating regularly with devotees, you are in one of the preliminary stages of devotional service. And you are. . . Yes, and Srila Prabhupada says in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that even a neophyte, if he has faith that the holy name of Krishna is not different from Krishna, he can awaken faith in others. So you can and should. 

That said, if someone asks a question to which you don’t know the answer, you should not speculate. At that point, you should say, “Well, I am just beginning, and I have faith in this philosophy and this process, but I can’t answer that particular question.” So, you could say either, give me some time, and I will come back to you with the answer, or you do either that or invite them to the temple or to a program where they can meet a more experienced devotee. And as far as distributing books, they are getting Prabhupada directly, so there is no problem distributing books. And even the holy name once someone asked Prabhupada that question that the chanting should be here heard from the lips of a pure devotee, so what if someone hears the chanting from us? And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Well, my students have heard the holy name from me, and you are hearing the holy name from my students, and you are repeating the holy name that you have heard from them. So, it is the same as them having heard it from me.” So, as long as you are in the paramparā and don’t speculate and add anything or subtract anything, you can present the message as it is. You can give people the holy name and certainly give them the books, and invite them to the temple or other programs. Indranuja Prabhu?

Devotee: I just want to ask that after having prasādam, did you take that sign off from your bathroom? 

Giriraj Swami: I don’t specifically remember, but I don’t even know if I would have wanted to look at it again. I might have just thrown paint on it. No, I am. . . Yes, I did remove it. I got books from the temple, I got pictures, and I changed my apartment, and then eventually, fairly soon after that, I moved into the temple. Yes sir. . .

Devotee: Do you still feel Srila Prabhupada’s presence in the same way that you felt that time in Boston after his physical disappearance?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I do. It is not the same all the time. Sometimes, I feel his separation, there are different dynamics and spiritual emotion, but the experience I had of feeling his presence outside the Copley Square Subway station, is not limited to when he was physically present. I mean, I have had similar experiences even after his physical departure. In fact, I had a very vivid one just a little after his departure. We took a small deity of Srila Prabhupada on a parikramā, pilgrimage to Govardhana Hill. It was his desire to go to Govardhana Hill just before he left his body, so we took his deity to Govardhana Hill. And on the parikramā, we ended up at Radha-kunda and Shyama-kunda, and there is a median between the two called the saṅgama. And we. . . So, we brought the palanquin with the small deity onto the saṅgama. Devotees were doing kirtan, and suddenly that deity, I don’t know, I just felt that deity is Srila Prabhupada. There is absolutely no difference between that deity and Srila Prabhupada, and that was within a few days after he left. And there have been other experiences over the years, and there have been experiences where I felt the same way engaging in service as I did when he was physically present. So, it is not limited to the time he was physically present, no, not at all.

Devotee: Where do you go for guidance when you are troubled? 

Giriraj Swami: Where do I go for guidance when I am troubled? His Holiness Ṛtadhvaja Swami. I go to my God brothers, I take shelter of the holy name, and chant the holy name, I come in front of the deities and pray to the deities, I read the books, and I get answers from all of them—from the books, from the deities, from the holy name, from God brothers and other devotees. Or, sometimes, yes, I just go to sleep and I wake up, and I get the answer. I take a shower, and I get the answer because Krishna’s in our heart. He is always with us, and if we are sincere to serve Him, He gives us the intelligence how to serve Him, and He answers our questions. It doesn’t always come immediately, but it will eventually come. But, I think, in your case, probably be good to speak to a devotee or to chant. Well, any of those processes would work. Mahatma Gandhi said, “When he was troubled, he would open the Bhagavad-gītā.” Oh! Rasaraja Prabhu, oh no, behind Rasaraja Prabhu. . .

Devotee: Yes, do you think the search for perfection can be a selfish desire? I mean some people want to become God.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, I mean it depends on your definition of perfection, but the highest perfection is devotional service to Krishna. That it is somewhat of a paradox, but it is selfless, but you get more through selfless service than you could get any other way. It is. . . There is a nice verse that says bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami sakali ‘aśānta’ kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva ‘śānta’. It says that the karmis who want material enjoyment, the yogis who want mystic perfections—siddhi, and the jnanis who want impersonal liberation—mukti—none of them is peaceful. bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami sakali ‘aśānta’ kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva ‘śānta’—only a devotee, pure devotee is free from desires, and therefore, only he is peaceful. And as the Bhagavad-gītā says: without peace where is the question of happiness? Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. Srila Prabhupada said that it is natural to be interested in your self-interest, everyone is concerned about his self-interest, but you have to know what your real self is, and that your real self is the eternal servant of Krishna, that your real self-interest is to serve Krishna. And by that you realize your own best interest and the best interest of all living entities and the whole creation. So yes, it fulfils your heart’s deepest desires, but in the process you give up selfish desires. But then, you realize what your real self is, and then, you are fully satisfied and happy. Hare Krishna. Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! Nitai-Gaura premānande, Hari Haribol!

Devotees: Giriraj Swami ki jaya!