SB 2.3.23 – Sharing the Knowledge You Have Received

Giriraj Swami: So we shall read one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Two, Chapter Three, “Pure Devotional Service.” Please repeat after me:  

TEXT 23

jīvañ chavo bhāgavatāṅghri-reṇuṁ

na jātu martyo ‘bhilabheta yas tu

śrī-viṣṇu-padyā manujas tulasyāḥ

śvasañ chavo yas tu na veda gandham

TRANSLATION

The person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body. And the person who has never experienced the aroma of the tulasī leaves from the lotus feet of the Lord is also a dead body, although breathing.

Purport by Srila Prabhupada

According to Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, the breathing dead body is a ghost. When a man dies, he is called dead, but when he again appears in a subtle form not visible to our present vision and yet acts, such a dead body is called a ghost. Ghosts are always very bad elements, always creating a fearful situation for others. Similarly, the ghostlike non-devotees who have no respect for the pure devotees, nor for the Viṣṇu Deity in the temples, create a fearful situation for the devotees at all times. The Lord never accepts any offering by such impure ghosts. There is a common saying that one should first love the dog of the beloved before one shows any loving sentiments for the beloved. The stage of pure devotion is attained by sincerely serving a pure devotee of the Lord. The first condition of devotional service to the Lord is therefore to be a servant of a pure devotee, and this condition is fulfilled by the statement “reception of the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee who has also served another pure devotee.” That is the way of pure disciplic succession, or devotional paramparā.

Mahārāja Rahūgaṇa inquired from the great saint Jaḍa Bharata as to how he had attained such a liberated stage of a paramahaṁsa, and in answer the great saint replied as follows (Bhāg. 5.12.12):

rahūgaṇaitat tapasā na yāti

na cejyayā nirvapaṇād gṛhād vā

na cchandasā naiva jalāgni-sūryair

vinā mahat-pāda-rajo-’bhiṣekam

“O King Rahūgaṇa, the perfectional stage of devotional service, or the paramahaṁsa stage of life, cannot be attained unless one is blessed by the dust of the feet of great devotees. It is never attained by tapasya [austerity], the Vedic worshiping process, acceptance of the renounced order of life, the discharge of the duties of household life, the chanting of the Vedic hymns, or the performance of penances in the hot sun, within cold water or before the blazing fire.”

In other words, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the property of His pure, unconditional devotees, and as such only the devotees can deliver Kṛṣṇa to another devotee; Kṛṣṇa is never obtainable directly. Lord Caitanya therefore designated Himself as gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, or “the most obedient servant of the servants of the Lord, who maintains the gopī damsels at Vṛndāvana.” A pure devotee therefore never approaches the Lord directly, but tries to please the servant of the Lord’s servants, and thus the Lord becomes pleased, and only then can the devotee relish the taste of the tulasī leaves stuck to His lotus feet. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said that the Lord is never to be found by becoming a great scholar of the Vedic literatures, but He is very easily approachable through His pure devotee. In Vṛndāvana all the pure devotees pray for the mercy of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, the pleasure potency of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī is a tenderhearted feminine counterpart of the supreme whole, resembling the perfectional stage of the worldly feminine nature. Therefore, the mercy of Rādhārāṇī is available very readily to the sincere devotees, and once She recommends such a devotee to Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Lord at once accepts the devotee’s admittance into His association. The conclusion is, therefore, that one should be more serious about seeking the mercy of the devotee than that of the Lord directly, and by one’s doing so (by the good will of the devotee) the natural attraction for the service of the Lord will be revived.

TRANSLATION again

The person who has not at any time received the dust of the feet of the Lord’s pure devotee upon his head is certainly a dead body. And the person who has never experienced the aroma of the tulasī leaves from the lotus feet of the Lord is also a dead body, although breathing.

COMMENT

Hare Krishna!

The present section of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam a series of verses in the Third Chapter, excuse me . . . yes the Third Chapter of the Second Canto, makes the point in different ways, that one who is not engaged in pure devotional service is a dead person. In other words devotional service, pure devotional service or Krishna consciousness is the actual life of the living entity. And without pure devotional service, although one may be breathing just like the bellows of a blacksmith, but one is not actually living, one is actually dead. The Sanskrit word jiva which means “living entity” is related to the word life. And the Sanskrit phrase jīva-hiṁsā which is ordinarily translated as “violence toward other living entities” can be understood in different ways.

Yes, the most common understanding would be to be violent in a physical sense. Just like people who eat flesh they are implicated in jīva-hiṁsā. Because they’re perpetrating violence on the innocent animals, whose flesh they eat. Even vegetarians who do not offer their food to the Lord are also in a more mild way, are also engaged in jīva-hiṁsā, violence against living entities. So that is one understanding.

But a more subtle understanding based on the idea that is being elaborated in these verses of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is that the life of the living entity is not the mere existence of the soul within the body. But it’s actually the engagement of the living entity in devotional service. And therefore Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, has given a definition of jīva-hiṁsā as stopping the preaching of Krishna consciousness. Because Krishna consciousness is the life of the living entity. So if we are not sharing the knowledge of Krishna consciousness with others, we are in an indirect way responsible for their deaths. Because we could save their lives, but we’re not saving their lives. I mean even in an ordinary situation, if someone is drowning and you have the capacity to pull him out of the pond, or the swimming pool, or whatever and you don’t, well in an indirect way, you’re responsible for the person’s death. So, people are drowning in the ocean of material existence. The ocean of birth and death. And by the grace of Krishna and the paramparā Srila Prabhupada, we have the knowledge that can save them from drowning in the ocean of birth and death.

So if we do not deliver that knowledge to people, we are involved in jīva-hiṁsā, violence towards living entities. So when one has knowledge, one has a great responsibility. And in particular, when one talks of spiritual knowledge received through paramparā, one has a great responsibility. Because one who receives spiritual knowledge from the spiritual master in paramparā has a debt to pay to the spiritual master. I mean nothing in this world is free. Of course we freely distribute the knowledge of Krishna consciousness, we freely distribute prasāda, and we freely distribute the Holy Name. That’s from the side of the person who’s doing the distribution. But from the side of the people who are receiving the gifts that are being distributed freely, there is an obligation, specifically in relation to transcendental knowledge. And the obligation is to share the knowledge with others. It is stated in the shastra, that when one receives knowledge from the spiritual master, he incurs a debt to the spiritual master. And the only way that he can act to repay the debt is to share the knowledge that he’s received with others. So if we have knowledge, and we don’t share it or distribute it, we are in a way, you could say, being ungrateful. Because if we had a sense of gratitude for the precious treasure that we’ve received we would want to repay our debt. And that desire to repay our debt would be manifested in the proper activity, which is meant for repaying that particular debt, which is to share the knowledge with others. And that is beneficial for both, we who speak the knowledge and for the people who receive it. Our spiritual master Srila Prabhupada, naturally by disciplic succession, had his spiritual master Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura instructed him that, “You should preach the message of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in the English language all over the world, and that will be good for you and for the people who hear you and assist you.”

So spiritual life and specifically the distribution of transcendental knowledge is beneficial for everyone. It’s like that famous speech from Shakespeare, the quality of mercy is not strained, in effect it nourishes the one who gives it and the one who receives it. This is a very different conception from material wealth. Materially, if I have ten dollars, and if I give you five dollars, I will have five dollars less. But spiritually if I have some knowledge and I give it to you, my knowledge does not decrease, but rather by the transcendental process my knowledge increases.

Srila Prabhupada used to tell the story of a sort of famous or popular Indian religious leader. Well I think of this association of spiritual family members we can dare to speak the name. Yeah, so anyway, he had a disciple named Vivekananda. Vivekananda related this, that his teacher Ramakrishna imparted his knowledge to his disciple Vivekananda by touching him, by establishing some sort of electric current, by which the knowledge was conveyed to his disciple. And Swami Vivekananda relates that when he closed his eyes and presumably received the knowledge, and when he opened his eyes, he saw that his teacher was weeping.

So he asked him, “Why are you weeping?” And his teacher replied, “Now I have given all of my knowledge to you. Now I don’t have any left.” And Srila Prabhupada remarks that this is a material conception of spiritual knowledge. It’s the same idea if I have ten dollars and I give you ten dollars, then I don’t have any dollars left. But Srila Prabhupada said that spiritually if you have transcendental knowledge, and you give it to others, then you will get more transcendental knowledge.

We all experience this. Anyone who repeats the message of Krishna experiences that when you preach, we use that word preach which means teach, share the knowledge, discuss the topic, you end up getting more knowledge. Krishna sees that you are sincere to serve Him by spreading His message, and He blesses you with more knowledge. Srila Prabhupada said that when you preach to you, he actually said, “Preaching is the best way to be Krishna conscious.: Because when you’re preaching, you have to think about Krishna. But even more than that, when people ask questions, you have to think of Krishna. You have to pray to Krishna to give you the answer, to give you the proper answer to deliver to the questioner. And he said yeah, the more you give transcendental knowledge, the more you get. And on the other hand if you have transcendental knowledge, and you don’t share it with others you become envious.

I thought of this statement of Srila Prabhupada: what, how does it work that you have knowledge, but if you don’t share it with others, you become envious? Well just coming back to that Sanskrit phrase jīva-hiṁsā. Hiṁsā is sometimes translated as envy. Envy of other living entities. If you deny someone’s life, it means you’re envious. I want to live, but I don’t want you to live, so it’s envy. Yeah, one mood is envy, and exploitation. And the other mood is service seva. So if you’re in the mood of service you want to help everyone. Paropakari, you want to do good for others. And on the spiritual plane doing good to others means giving them spiritual knowledge.

Yes, we give them the Holy Name. We give them prasāda. But without knowledge they won’t really know what the Holy Name is. What benefit they’re getting from it or what prasāda is. What benefit they’re getting from prasāda. So it’s our duty, it’s our responsibility. And as we make advancement, and actually develop love for Krishna and His devotees, we also naturally develop love or compassion for everyone. So we want to help them. It’s the mood of a devotee, who wants to help everyone, paropakar, and he does it by sharing his or her knowledge with them.

Now someone might say, “Well that’s well and good if you are learned, you know scripture, and you can quote verses and explain philosophy. But not all of us have that gift or capacity.” So in response to that hypothetical question, Srila Prabhupada quoted a famous statement by Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa yāre dekha, tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa [Cc Madhya 7.128] Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu said āmāra ājñāya on My order, you should become a guru, a teacher. Guru means teacher. And how? yāre dekha, tāre kaha wherever you go, whomever you meet ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa, you repeat the message of Krishna.

You don’t have to invent some new idea or theory or conception. You just repeat ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa the message of Krishna in the Bhagavad-gītā or the message of Krishna in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Krishna says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 9.34] always think of Me and become My devotee. So we just have to repeat what Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gītā. We just say, ”Always think of Krishna and become a devotee of Krishna.” It’s not very difficult. It’s just a matter of repeating the message of Krishna. Well how do we think of Krishna all the time? Man-manā How do we think of Krishna? Well Krishna says satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ always engage in kirtan, chant My name and chant My glories.

And Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says the same thing, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ always chant the Holy name and always engage in kirtan. Kirtan also means glorification of Krishna. So it is not very difficult. You just have to repeat the message of Krishna as you’ve received it through disciplic succession. And then you may say, “Well okay, I can tell them you should think of Krishna, you should become Krishna’s devotee, but then what if he asked some questions and I don’t know how to answer?” And that’s when Prabhupada said that when you preach you naturally become Krishna conscious because when someone asks a question, you pray. You have to surrender to Krishna. You have to pray to Krishna, “Krishna help me. Please give me the answer. The soul is asking a question. Please give me the answers.” You think of Krishna. I’m thinking of Krishna, Krishna consciousness. That’s what Krishna consciousness is.

Or you can just say, “I’ve (you can bring the person), but actually it’s good to know the answer. Actually you should know the answers.” But it’s not book knowledge. If you’re actually chanting, and hearing, and serving, you will get the answers. Krishna will give you the answers.

Once we were, I mean in Bombay with Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada had a friend, a quiet intelligent, astute, shrewd businessman named Brijratan Mohatta. And at that time Srila Prabhupada was still struggling to get the Juhu land, meaning he had paid the money for it, but the owner was trying to cheat him. So we weren’t able to develop the project on the land. And so this created a situation where we would stay at different people’s homes in the city. Anyway, Srila Prabhupada came and he was staying at the—it was a short visit—but I believe he was staying at Mr. Bhogilal Patel’s home. And Mr. Mohatta came, and sort of told him that one of his disciples, one of Prabhupada’s disciples, was coming to visit him.           

Actually at one stage Mr. Mohatta himself gave us an apartment. And anyway I think this exchange took place in Bhogilal Patel’s home. Mr. Mohatta wanted some kṛṣṇa-kathā, he wanted to have some discussion. So this disciple who was going over to Mr. Mohatta’s house in the morning and discussing Bhagavad-gītā. . . And Mr. Mohatta complained that he would ask the disciple questions, and the disciple wouldn’t be able to answer them. It’s like what is this?

So then Prabhupada asked the disciple, and maybe Mr. Mohatta asked some questions about demigod worship. “Okay tell people to become Krishna’s devotees, surrender to Krishna and chant Krishna’s names.” So then, ”Well, what about Shiva? What about Durga? What about Ganesh, what about this, what about that?” So the disciple told Srila Prabhupada, “Well I took out your Bhagavad-gītā and I read to him what it says about demigod worship.” And Srila Prabhupada made a face, and he said, “He doesn’t want to know what’s in my books, he wants to know what you know.”

And there was an incident right here in Berkeley California. There was Professor Stahl and he had an encounter with one of Prabhupada’s disciples and Professor Stahl was one of those erudite demons. And there are a number of them in the department of religious studies all over the United States, and he was one of them. So he got into some argument with this disciple of Srila Prabhupada. And he was questioning why we say, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, in Kali-yuga the only way is to chant the Holy Name and they’re having some discussion. And the disciple couldn’t satisfy him. So in the end, Professor Stahl and Srila Prabhupada entered into correspondence. A very sort of scholarly type of debate with different references from scripture. And Prabhupada made his points, and quoted his references. And Professor Stahl made his points, and quoted his references, and there was no reconciliation.

So then Srila Prabhupada said that sometimes it happens in a court of law, different lawyers will be arguing from the same law book and taking different positions. And one lawyer doesn’t convince the other one on the other side. And the other lawyer doesn’t convince the other one on the other side. But the matter is decided by the judge. So, what we need in this discussion is a judge. Now who is the judge? The judge is the Lord, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is the Lord who comes in the guise of a devotee, to make clear to all of us what is the real intention of the Bhagavad-gītā, what is the real intention of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, what is the real intention of the Upanishads, what is the real intention of the Vedas? He is God Himself explaining everything, making it all fit together and makes sense.

And Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, He has made it very clear kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and hari-nāma chanting of Krishna’s name is the only way for success and spiritual realization in the Kali-yuga. So it was a nice exchange between them, and it ended up with a nice conclusion. But Srila Prabhupada did remark that he would like his disciples to be able to answer these types of questions. So that people don’t think that we are just sort of sentimentalists who don’t really have any philosophy and we’re just sort of blindly following something. So we should know, and it’s not hard. Srila Prabhupada has given everything in his books, he’s definitely given everything we need.

And he actually told me, I really hadn’t thought about this for quite a while. But he told me that, “If you just read,” this is Prabhupada saying, “If you just read my purport, and then you speak on a verse, and repeat what’s in the purport, everyone will think you’re a very learned scholar.” So it’s not that hard. Simple for the simple, and difficult for the crooked.

So we are in such a place here in Berkeley, I mean so many and it’s like a real center of knowledge, debate, and speculation. And yes, I mean so many of the pioneers of Srila Prabhupada’s movement came from Berkeley, came from the preaching in Berkeley. I’m thinking of one, he’s not usually associated with Berkeley because he didn’t really join Berkeley. But he’s my god-brother, Sridhar Swami Maharaja; he first saw the devotees in Berkeley. Some devotees were chanting, but the real thing is that they had a book table, with books and different items of devotional paraphernalia. And Sridhar Swami came from a sort of rough and tumble background in Vancouver. I mean I don’t really know much about Vancouver, but I imagine sort of like the Oakland of Vancouver. And so he had really long hair down to his shoulders, and even his physical build was quite staunch like someone in the Oakland Raiders.

So he came up to the book table, and sort of, eyeing it. And on the book table there were prints, posters of Krishna. So he said to the devotee manning the table, “Who is that?” Devotee said, “That’s Krishna, that’s God.” “So yeah, well what would you do if I picked up that picture and ripped it into pieces?” And the devotee looked him in the eye and said, “I think I have to kill you.” And Sridhar Swami—he wasn’t Sridhar Swami then—he was very impressed. “Okay these are tough people, I can fit in with these people.”

No it was. I think his name was Baboo, Baboovanar? It’s a long name, not a very common name. So yeah, Berkeley, just go out there and just have a good time, giving people Krishna. (Hare Krishna!) So I’m not sure what that means, but I think we can end here, and see if any of you have any comments or questions. I’m sure you’re very learned and intelligent. Yes?

Devotee: [unintelligible 00:52:00]

What would you say is someone who wants to be a vegetarian, but he lives in an environment where his parents don’t allow him to be a vegetarian?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Well just on the point of. . . that’s a difficult one. I mean the main thing is the person’s sincerity. Srila Prabhupada told the story of his sister. His sister was a devotee, and somehow she married into a family that ate fish. But I don’t know what happened. Anyway, so she moved into her husband’s family’s home. That’s the system, and then she saw there’s fish in the kitchen. And she just broke down and started crying. And she just said, “I’ve never touched these things in my life. I mean I can’t.” And they were, I guess, so moved by her sincerity, that they gave her a separate facility. All separate cooking utensils and everything where there was no fish.

I mean I don’t know how they could force it? I mean, unless a child is really smart, I don’t know how they could force the person to eat meat, eat flesh.

Devotee: He’s twelve.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, twelve.

Devotee: [unintelligible 0:54:18 – 0:54:37]

Giriraj Swami: Yeah at that age, he’s pretty dependent on [parents]. Well, I would say, he should just really sincerely pray to Krishna that I don’t want to eat this. I mean, I think you should eat as little of it as possible. I mean mothers even if they, but I mean they have that feminine side of, tender-hearted feminine side. He could try not eating the meat. No argument. No confrontation. Just leave it. And maybe that tender-hearted feminine side of her will come out.

Devotee: [unintelligible 0:55:52 – 0:57:01] And I would like you to give us some enlightenment on this matter. And it has to do with the living entity in the material world. There is some talk that says that we, as jivas, never actually originated from the spiritual world. How do I [unintelligible] and that we have fallen into the material world, and that is why we need to go back, back to Godhead. Is this conception is true, or it is false.

Giriraj Swami: What do you think?

Devotee: [unintelligible 0:57:03 – 0:58:15] We obviously did come from the spiritual world and we have fallen into the material world. That’s what I have understood. [Unintelligible] We always say from scripture.

Giriraj Swami: I am convinced. I am convinced, but there’s more to it than the way you presented it. But the problem is that there’s different statements in different places in the scripture even in Srila Prabhupada translations of the scripture. And in one letter, a long letter, Srila Prabhupada wrote on this topic. He did say that, although there are two different positions, and things could be said in favor of each, but he favors the position that says that the living entities fell from their relationship with Krishna. There is  another letter in which a disciple put forth the theory that the living entity falls from the brahmajyoti. And Srila Prabhupada replied that being in the brahmajyoti is already a fallen position. So where is the question of falling from the brahmajyoti, already fallen. And in a discussion of this subject by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, he says that the subject is inconceivable. And because it is inconceivable, you can’t really, absolutely prove one or the other. But it really seems. . . see it’s like this. The reason I think that the idea, going back home, back to Godhead is appropriate, is that Srila Prabhupada gave the example, and it’s Prabhupada’s way of presenting it in a very nice way. But it’s in the scripture. It’s just, it’s everywhere in the scripture.

But the way Prabhupada presented it is that, when you become self-realized, it’s like waking up from a dream. And when you wake up, you immediately remember everything about who you are. You may be asleep, you may be dreaming, whatever and then you wake up, and you automatically remember, I’m so and so, such and such is my wife. So and so are my children. And this is my job. And I have to get up. And I have to bathe, and get dressed. I have to have breakfast. I have to go to work.” Like you immediately know everything about who you are and that stage of svarupa-siddhi.

I mean everyone agrees that’s what happens in that stage. You realize everything about your eternal identity and your eternal relationship is Krishna and jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya-dāsa. I mean I think everyone agrees we have an eternal identity. We have an eternal relationship with Krishna. We have eternal service to Krishna. Now I suppose someone could say, “Well it’s eternal, but it’s never been realized before.” But I mean, I don’t know, I mean, but it feels like, I mean, it’s eternal.

So, another type of evidence in favor of this position is Srila Prabhupada’s tradition or instruction. A mahā-bhāgavata uttamādhikārī, he sees that everyone is engaged in serving Krishna. He sees no need to preach because he sees everyone is already a Krishna’s servant. And again Acharyas, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura among others, have discussed this point in a very detailed way. And one answer they give is that from the perspective of eternal time, the living entity’s sojourn in the material world is like a fraction of a second. A fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a second. So from that perspective, the living entity’s sojourn in the material world in the kingdom of maya, it’s like it’s less than the blink of an eye. Like it has no significance. And therefore the mahā-bhāgavata is seeing things from the perspective of eternal time, doesn’t see this little next to nothing as having any real existence. All he sees is that the living entity is engaged in service.

So I’m in sympathy with this position. So, but in the course of my sixty-three years, especially, in the last three years, or three months, I’ve come to realize that it’s not wise to very quickly dismiss another person’s point of view. It happened a few times just in the last three days that fortunately I didn’t follow my initial impulse. But it happened twice in the last three days. Someone wrote me something and my initial impulse was just sort of to reject it out of hand. But in both cases I sort of let it sit for a while before pressing the send button. And in one case, although I didn’t agree with what the person had written, I understood why the person had written it. It wasn’t just like “Duh. How stupid can you get?”

It wasn’t, there was actually a very good reason why the person wrote it. And so I wrote back that, “I understand why you might think that but,” then I gave the answer. And in the other case okay I wrote my initial impulse, “No.” So then over a period of whatever an hour or two, “Well okay it’s No, but I’ll mitigate it. I won’t be so harsh.” And then another hour later, “Actually that person was right.”

So yeah, I mean, that’s how I think. I mean, and Prabhupada also said we shouldn’t worry so much about how we got into the material world. But we should worry about how we can get out of the material world, and go back to Krishna. He gave the example, it’s like you’re drowning, and someone comes in a boat to rescue you. You say now, “Wait a minute, wait a minute. I want to know how I got here.” It’s foolish. Don’t worry about how you got there, just get on the boat and get saved.

So I mean that’s sort of an overarching comment of Srila Prabhupada. The subject is not to waste too much time on it. But I think internally, we do feel we have whether we were there or not. Or when we were there or how it happened that we’re not there now. But we do have an eternal relationship with Krishna. And when we are awakened to our eternal identity, every detail of our relationship and our service will be revealed. And a disciple asked Srila Prabhupada that when we do realize our eternal identity, and go back to Godhead, will we remember that we were in the material world? And Srila Prabhupada said Yes. But he said, “It’ll be like remembering a nightmare. And you’ll remember but you won’t think about it too much.” Yes?

Devotee: [unintelligible 1:09:09 – 1:09:34]

Just want one comment. We are potential disciples. So we need to know the truth. What is the truth?

Giriraj Swami: Well instead of making this the criteria, why don’t you make the criterion who’s going to get you out of the material world? Instead of making the criterion of who can answer how you got into the material world, what about who’s going to get you out of the material world?

Devotee: [unintelligible 1:09:56–1:10:01]

Giriraj Swami: But from where did you get the idea that should be the criteria? That’s your own choice.

Devotee: Knowledge, whether they have the knowledge or not.

Giriraj Swami: But you’re already. . . it’s like you’re already setting yourself up in a superior position. Because you think you already have the answer, so you’re passing judgment on your prospective guru. That’s not the attitude that you have when you. . .

Devotee: [unintelligible 1:10:44–1:11:16]

I already made my decision

Giriraj Swami: Okay, so your concern here is that people are disqualifying themselves by mistakenly presenting a position on the fall of the jiva.

Devotee: Yes, and as a result of what we hear, we may accept or reject a person.

Giriraj Swami: So you’re saying that by hearing that the jiva was never with Krishna, they may get the idea that if someone says that the jiva was with Krishna, that person is not qualified.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 1:12:09 – 1:12:26]

Giriraj Swami: But who’s stopping you from rejecting him? You and whoever else wants to reject that person is free to reject him. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles. [Unintelligible 1:12:43]Everyone has their free will. The speakers have their free will. The audience have their free will.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 1:12:55 – 1:12:58]

Giriraj Swami: jīvera ‘svarūpa’ haya — kṛṣṇera ‘nitya-dāsa’ Okay we agree. Yes

Devotee: [unintelligible 1:13:07 – 1:13:59]

Giriraj Swami: I didn’t hear exactly everything you said, yeah it’s better without the mike.

Devotee: [unintelligible 1:14:10 – 1:14:40]in practical terms, in Islam

Giriraj Swami: I mean Krishna consciousness is the goal. That yeah, the goal is to be fully Krishna conscious. That phrase Krishna consciousness means—it’s taken from Rupa Gosvami—it basically means relishing the mellows of Krishna consciousness. But there’s a process. That process is given in shastra and Rupa Gosvami’s book Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, the law book of devotional service. So, the first three items ādau guru-pādāśraya—take shelter of the lotus feet of guru, sīkṣeti, dīkṣeti—take initiation, and take instruction. I mean it’s the process. You can’t escape it. I mean you can just [unintelligible 1:15:40] whatever you want you can do, but that is the process. And I think that’s how paramparā works.

It’s just so. . . I don’t. . . someone may say, “Okay I’m just going to get the knowledge from the scripture. I’m not going to take initiation.” That’s fine, but what about the scriptures that say to approach a guru and take initiation? Well? And we’re in that position of the half-hen logic. A farmer has a hen that lays eggs. So the farmer thinks, Oh, this is very good. Every day I’m getting an egg. This is wonderful. But actually the real valuable part of the hen is the rear end, that’s giving the eggs. And the mouth and the neck are really troublesome. I have to put so much food in my mouth all the time. So let me just cut the neck, be done with the troublesome portion, and keep the valuable potion that gives the eggs. And of course when he cuts the creature’s neck, then there are no more eggs.

So Srila Prabhupada applied that logic to the scripture. That you can’t choose, “Oh I like this, I’m going to follow this. But I don’t like that, so just cut that.” He gave an example in India, very common. One of the most popular verses in India is karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana [Bg. 2.47] that you’re entitled to work, but you’re not entitled to the fruits of the work. So people read this like a golden egg. I can work, and I’m not keeping the fruits. I’m giving it all to my wife and children. So it’s like, to them, this is like a golden egg that they . . . But when Krishna says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]—give up everything and just surrender to Krishna. Oh! This is troublesome, cut this part, and well it’s not Krishna, it’s rationalizing it away. So the people who say that “I’m just going to follow the books, get knowledge from the books.” But what about when the books—like what we just read—what about when the books say that you cannot be liberated from the material world unless you take shelter of the lotus feet of the devotees, or approach a guru? There’s so many statements. So they’re like cutting them, they’re keeping what they like and cutting what they don’t like, and in the process they lose the whole value.

Same thing Prabhupada is your guru. There’s no doubt he’s the śikṣā- guru. He’s fit to be the śikṣā-guru of the whole universe. But as śikṣā-guru, he has presented a process that involves dīkṣā. I mean it’s. . . so part of accepting it’s the same thing. It’s similar except Prabhupada is my guru. Okay well Prabhupada says you have to take initiation. There’s no precedent that you take initiation from someone who’s no longer physically present. That’s not. . . Because ādau guru-pādāśraya—take shelter of the lotus feet of guru; dīkṣeti, sīkṣeti—take initiation, and take instruction and sad-dharma-śikṣā-pṛcchā and inquire; tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]—you inquire, that is part of the process of accepting the guru, so you inquire. So where that means that implies questions and answers. So how are you going to do that with someone who’s not there? I mean if you are a liberated soul, if you’re on that platform, you can. But for conditioned souls who are trying to become liberated through the process of devotional service, they need someone who they can ask questions to. Once Srila Prabhupada. . . someone I don’t know if he raised the question hypothetically or someone asked him, but maybe he raised it hypothetically, “What is better? The book bhagavata or the person bhagavata?” And Prabhupada said, “The person bhagavata. Because he can catch you by the ear.”