Holy Name Retreat—Discussion Group on Japa

Giriraj Swami: To begin, I would like to ask you if you have any questions.? 

Devotee: Questions about?

Giriraj Swami: About what Giridhari Swami said in his talks today about japa in general.

Devotee: It is very difficult to [Unintelligible 00:00:20] to chant and to hear, but it is easier said than done, very difficult actually. I tried to actually apply it and it takes a long time.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. But Srila Prabhupada said, “Practice makes perfect, even in spiritual life.” So if we practice sincerely and conscientiously, we will gradually improve. It is a matter of developing good habits. If you repeat something many times, it becomes a habit. So in the beginning, we have many bad habits. For example, from the beginning of our lives, we pretty much let our minds go here, and there, and everywhere. We don’t have the habit of controlling the mind. But if we practice, we can develop that habit. Earlier in our lives, we might have had the habit of going to sleep late at night and getting up late in the morning. But if we practice, we can develop a new habit. We can develop the habit of taking rest early and getting up early and chanting.

When we first came to Bombay with Srila Prabhupada, one man who I mentioned in my talk on the first day, named Mr. Sethi, he came to meet Srila Prabhupada. And Srila Prabhupada asked him what does he do in the morning? What is his schedule in the morning? And Mr. Sethi said, “I get up at about seven in the morning. I brush my teeth, I drink my tea, I read the newspaper, and then I go to work.” And then Srila Prabhupada said, “What is the difference between you and a pig?” So that was Mr. Sethi’s old habit. But by superior association we get superior knowledge. And then by practice we can develop new habits.

Devotee: I have been chanting for some time but it is not very steady. In the beginning, I like this transcendental sound vibration very much. And, after chanting for some time, I found that my enthusiasm was going down. Especially, after some time, I feel that my mind was like demon. [Unintelligible 00:03:25] Somehow it says, does this kind of chanting give you any wealth? Or sometimes you just say, “Oh you are chanting very nicely, you are doing great.” But actually, these days, I am not chanting very much because very unsteady and the quality is very bad.

Giriraj Swami: In the beginning, Krishna may give us some special mercy to give us an idea of the taste of Krishna consciousness; to give us some taste of the bliss of Krishna consciousness. It is a gift from Krishna to us. We didn’t work for it. Krishna gives it to us to inspire us to go forward on the path. But after that, we have to do some work of our own and we may struggle more. Another thing is that the mind likes new things. It always wants to try something new to find happiness. So in the beginning, the mind wants to try Hare Krishna. It is something new. But then after a while the mind becomes restless, I already did the chanting, now let me try something else. And another factor is, in the beginning, we usually have very deep appreciation for the devotees, because the devotees are giving us the association, and the knowledge that we want and need. But then after a while, we might start to see the devotees in a more mundane way. And then instead of appreciating them, we may see faults in them, and that becomes an offense. And because of that offense, our chanting becomes disturbed. So, to come back to our original experience of chanting, we have to work. We have to develop good habits of japa, we have to practice to focus the mind on the holy name, on the sound, and, we have to avoid at all costs, finding faults with devotees. It may be that someone in a position of authority has to correct a devotee. That is part of his duty but, in general, we should look for the good in others and not look for the bad. And that will make our heart more open to the chanting. Any other questions?

Devotee: Maharaja, earlier you mentioned that we should get up early in the morning and chant. So, she is asking if there is a specific period of time for that.

Giriraj Swami: Well, the best time to chant is the brāhma-muhūrta. The brāhma-muhūrta begins one hour and thirty-two minutes before sunrise. So if we say that the sunrise is at six, then we should begin to chant at four thirty. So then, we should get up at four so that we can bathe, and be ready to chant. Srila Prabhupada has very wonderful lady disciple named Yamuna devi dasi. And one morning, Srila Prabhupada had the devotees chant japa with him, in Bombay. And Yamuna devi, at sunrise, she did her Gayatri mantra which is the proper time, and Srila Prabhupada told her that she should complete her sixteen rounds before she does her Gayatri mantra. Gayatri mantra is done at sunrise. So from that instruction of Srila Prabhupada, Yamuna devi understood that he wanted her to complete all of her rounds before sunrise. And since that time, that has been for her endeavor, to chant all of her rounds before Gayatri at sunrise.

Devotee: You also mentioned, we should pronounce clearly and meditate deeply. So what should we meditate on, the holy name sound or Krishna?

Giriraj Swami: Very good question. We begin by just hearing, but if our mind is filled with thoughts of Krishna, then when we hear the sound of the holy name, we will naturally think of Krishna. In the early days of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada established a practice that at night, the devotees would have hot milk, and read Krishna book. So, before you take rest at night, if you read Krishna book, or any book with the pastimes of Krishna, or Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, or Srila Prabhupada, then when you wake up, those thoughts will be in your mind. And then when you chant your rounds, naturally those thoughts will come in your mind. But you don’t make a separate effort to think about Krishna. But just by hearing the sound of the holy name, if your mind has good thoughts about Krishna, and guru, and Gauranga, then those thoughts will naturally come to mind. Any other questions?

Devotee: Sometimes, when she is chanting in the morning, she closes her door and windows, and she will hear the echo. So, she wonders what it is; is a sound vibration or what and she wonders what to do with it?

Giriraj Swami: The sound vibration will fill the room and create a spiritual atmosphere. In fact, after chanting, if one has created a good spiritual atmosphere, one should not just leave that place. But one should appreciate the spiritual vibration, and offer respect to that spiritual vibration before proceeding to other activities. Do you closed the doors and windows so nobody else will hear?

Devotee: It is very noisy outside, she just wants to concentrate.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, so that is good. 

Devotee: Can meat-eaters chant Hare Krishna?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: So, there is someone who has some cancer and the doctor says, “You have to have enough nutrition.” So, she is chanting, she is reading, but just for that purpose, she is also eating some eggs, and fish, and some meat.

Giriraj Swami: Well, that is a very difficult situation. When you asked your question, I thought you meant whether new people who have the habit of eating meat can chant. So anyone can chant.

Devotee: She has been chanting her rounds for more than one year. I wonder, should I reject her association or not?”

Giriraj Swami: So she. . .

Devotee: Kind of [Unintelligible 00:12:22] not initiated.

Giriraj Swami: Many devotees have cancer, but they don’t eat fish and eggs. They stick to their principles. So you should still give her association. No, if she is still chanting, but because the doctor told her to eat fish or eggs, and because she doesn’t have the strength to say no to the doctor, to explain to the doctor that she cannot follow that, but if she is still chanting, some devotee or devotees should still give her association. Otherwise she may stop chanting completely. As long as she is not offensive, you can visit her.

Devotee: She said, “I know someone who was eating even beef, but then they started chanting and they actually lost the taste.” So that means actually chanting gives us taste. It makes us lose the taste in meat, also.

Giriraj Swami: It should. Anyway, if she doesn’t want to associate with that cancer patient, she doesn’t have to.

Devotee: We say, for chanting, we should try to create a spiritual atmosphere. Also does it have to do with posture? Should we stand or sit while chanting?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, a good question. The best is to sit with your back straight. And even say it is best to keep the mala in front of your heart. So, you saw in the last example in the Giridhari Swami’s presentation, he is sitting and chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. But if you feel too tired, that if by sitting your feel sleepy, then it is better to stand up and chant. And if you still feel too tired standing, if you need a little more activity, then you can walk. The main thing is to hear. But if you can sit still and chant, then it is easier to hear. So you want to get enough sleep, so that you can sit and chant. That is the best.

Devotee: The question is that I think, Maharaja you are chanting very nicely. But our chanting is not good, in an attentive pace. So, I would love to hear about feeling, and experience, and realizations about chanting.

Giriraj Swami: I can tell you some experiences, but it will take a few minutes. And before that, does everyone have a pen and paper? So, maybe you already have notes, but you should write down, what did you learn today that will help you with your japa. Giridhari Swami gave Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class in the morning, and then he gave the presentation on japa now, and we also had some discussion here. So you should write down what you learned. And then, second part, you should write down what you can apply from what you learned, in your daily life.

Devotee: So notice to control the mind, we have to surrender to three authorities—guru, sadhu, shastra. If we follow the three authorities, then we can get Krishna’s mercy. Krishna will help us to get rid of the contamination, impurities. Maharaja also talked about the six [Unintelligible 00:16:39]. First thought is that we should set a priority to control the mind, under their skills and japa itself. [Unintelligible 00:16:52]

Giriraj Swami: So what are you going to take from what you learned and do different in your own life?

Devotee: First, I should get up early.

Giriraj Swami: So you are going to do that?

Devotee: Yes. 

Giriraj Swami: Okay, good. 

Devotee: And to chant and hear clearly, don’t fall asleep, and don’t think about everything. If the mind wanders off then take it back.

Giriraj Swami: And if you feel sleepy while you are chanting, then what will you do?

Devotee: Get up and maybe walk a little bit and then the sleep will go away.

Giriraj Swami: All right. Anyone else?

Devotee: Maharaja, you talked about the six keys. The first one is [Unintelligible 00:17:40] most important, the second is saṅkalpa, control the mind, humility, skills, and japa itself. But for me, the most important thing is to fix the time for japa – don’t be late. Best is to chant at a fixed time every day, and to chant sixteen rounds in a row.

Giriraj Swami: So what are you going to do in your own life?

Devotee: Now I am doing full-time devotional service. I am not working anymore. Due to the mercy of my Prabhu, he agrees that I don’t have to work. His is husband.

Giriraj Swami: Haribol.

Devotee: So I get up early at 4:00 o’clock in the morning, and take a bath and start to chant. At 6:30 I will do ārati and listen to the class in the morning.

Giriraj Swami: Very nice. I mean if ārati means maṅgala-ārati or guru-puja?

Devotee: Maṅgala-ārati, guru-arati, guru-puja, Tulasi-ārati

Giriraj Swami: Nice. Or you could do the way Prabhupada established in the temples. If it works for your husband, you could have the maṅgala-ārati at 4:30 and then chant japa, and then have guru-puja. Because it is also auspicious to sing the samsara prayers during brāhma-muhūrta. It is also auspicious. But Shyamasundara, what is your morning program?

Devotee: Join the [Unintelligible 00:19:25]

Giriraj Swami: Anyone else want to tell us what you learned, and what you plan to take home with you?

Devotee: She is a new Bhaktin. How to get the best result of chanting if I have an old body (She also ask this).

Giriraj Swami: Well, chanting is for the soul. It is not a question of the body—old body, young body, man’s body, lady’s body. So, what we have been discussing is good for everyone. But in a way, an older person may have an advantage, because the older person might not have to work, and do so many other things. So, the older person will have more time. That is like vanaprastha stage. One can retire from other activities and devote oneself fully to God. That is the blessing of old age. 

Devotee: She is saying, her hearing is not very proper. She is talking about that way; her ears are not working very well.

Giriraj Swami: Can she get a hearing aid; a machine to help her to hear? It might be worth it, so she can hear the holy name. Otherwise, one can chant in the mind. But it is better if she can hear. Maybe she should chant louder. Maybe she has to chant louder, so she can hear.

Devotee: He says, sometimes when he is chanting, he feels that if someone is talking to him, or someone is passing something to him, without realizing, his hand is trying to get something but actually nothing is there. He doesn’t know what is happening.

Giriraj Swami: Just chant Hare Krishna. If somebody comes, tell him to wait till you finish your chanting. I cannot say more just now. Once one new devotee who came in the early days of ISKCON, he told Srila Prabhupada that when he chanted, he saw different colors. And Srila Prabhupada said, “Don’t worry, just keep chanting, and it will go away.” 

Devotee: She said, even though she gets up at 4:00 o’clock and chant, but now she is very old. She is seventy-six. So sometimes, because you are saying we should sit straight, sometimes she feel that her back is paining. So she is asking if she can lean on something or lie down and chant.

Giriraj Swami: You mean lean for support? Yes, you can lean. You can lean, but you still try to sit straight with support. Lying down is not a good idea. It is best you can have back support but you should sit properly with the support. You look much younger than seventy-six. Don’t think you are seventy-six.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:23:05]

Giriraj Swami: There might be some back exercises, some chiropractor. Giridhari Swami told me about some, forget the name of it. It is like chiropractic, but it is very gentle and it can help your back. Because sometimes we have to spend a little time and energy to take care of our body, so that our body is in good condition for chanting Hare Krishna, and serving Krishna.

Devotee: If I chant after sixteen rounds, can I lie down and chant?

Giriraj Swami: If you can do it without falling asleep. Are you actually able to hear while you are lying down and chanting? All right after sixteen, but this is just for you, not for others. So I can answer the question about my early experiences with chanting. She was from Mongolia. No, she was with a group from Mongolia. No, oh okay, near Vietnam. So, I will tell a few incidents. When I first met Srila Prabhupada, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, he would speak in the temple. And, Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, he would have some program outside. Many of the programs were in universities. So at one program, well the routine was that there would be kirtan, and then Prabhupada would speak, and then there would be kirtan again.

So, after one talk at the university, there was kirtan. And, during that kirtan, the devotees were dancing in a circle. And as I was dancing in the circle and looking at the people in the room, students and maybe some professors or staff members, I felt a great sense of love for those people. Looking at them, I had a great feeling of love for them. And then that feeling of love expanded. And it is like a feeling of love going beyond the class room, out into the street, into the neighborhood, beyond the neighborhood, across the whole United States, across the Pacific Ocean to China. And the feeling of love for the whole world. And then beyond this planet, filling up the whole universe. So, I was so overwhelmed that after the kirtan, I came up to Srila Prabhupada. He was sitting on a raised platform. I never approached him directly like that before and I just said, “Srila Prabhupada, this chanting is wonderful.” And he looked at me with great compassion and he started to chuckle, to laugh. And I knew he was laughing in ecstasy. He was feeling ecstasy and he simply said, “Thank you very much.”

So then after some time, I needed to get beads to send to Srila Prabhupada to chant on for my initiation, because we did not know when Srila Prabhupada would come back to Boston. So the temple president, Satsvarupa said that the system was to send the beads to Prabhupada, and he would chant on them and send them back. So in those days, we didn’t get a japa-mālā from India, so we had to go to the store and buy the individual beads and buy the string. And then we would have to string the beads on the string. So the devotees told me that if you chant one mantra, on each bead, when you put it on the string and tie the knot, then at the end of a hundred and eight beads, you will be in ecstasy. So I thought, Okay I will do that. So I did, and it was true. As I kept chanting, I was feeling more and more ecstasy and at the end, I felt very good.

Then another experience is, there was a poster, a picture, of Krishna downstairs, where the brahmacharis stayed. And I had heard that when we see the Deity, or meditate on any picture of Krishna, we should begin with the lotus feet and then gradually go to the ankles, to the knees, and up the transcendental form of Krishna. So I thought, I will begin with the very tip of the toe. So, I was chanting japa and looking at the very tip of the toe. Just the smallest particle at the end of the toe, where the toe nail comes at the end of the toe. And I can’t explain what happened, but that tip of the toe was so beautiful. I was just chanting japa; just chanting, chanting, chanting, and looking at the tip of the toe. And that tip of the toe was so fascinating, so beautiful, so fascinating, I thought that it was endless. I couldn’t go beyond the tip of the toe; just so much beauty, so much splendor. And then finally, it was time to go on saṅkīrtana and I have to leave it. 

And then the last incident that I will share with you now. We were on hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, chanting in the street, and suddenly, I had this deep realization, this real feeling that I am not the body, and have nothing to do with the body, but I am a pure soul, part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, Krishna. And I felt a very deep experience of emotion, of relief, and happiness, and mercy. I felt I was receiving some mercy, and it was a very dramatic experience. And I mentioned the experience to the other devotee. And this was just a couple of days after I sent my beads to Srila Prabhupada with the request for initiation. So, the devotee said that, at that moment that I had that experience, it may be that Prabhupada was chanting on my beads and initiating me. And therefore, I was receiving some special mercy, and getting that experience. And maybe two days later, two or three days later, the beads came with Prabhupada’s initiation letter. And it is possible that it was at that moment that he was chanting on my beads. So, it is all Prabhupada’s mercy; everything is Prabhupada’s mercy. And of course, there have been many experiences after that, but the lady asked about when I first came, so I answered. But it is all Prabhupada’s mercy. And it is what Giridhari Swami said that, we cannot move an inch, we cannot move an iota without the mercy of the guru, and the Vaishnavas, and Krishna. So we should be very eager to get the guru’s mercy. And the way to get the mercy is to serve him. So we should be very devoted to the service of the guru, so we can please him, and get his mercy. And this was a lesson I learned from Tamal Krishna Goswami, that the secret of success in spiritual life is to serve the spiritual master. And Srila Prabhupada, he had a mission. He wanted to spread the holy name and Krishna consciousness to every town and village in the world. And if we helped him in his mission, he would be pleased.

So, after that early discussion with Tamal Krishna Goswami, that became my whole focus. How to serve Srila Prabhupada and please him, and then just depend on his mercy. And same with the Vaishnavas; serve the Vaishnavas, please them, get their mercy. Serve the Lord, serve the deity, please the Lord, get the Lord’s mercy. But the best service is to preach. Krishna Himself says, if you preach the message of the Bhagavad-gītā, you become very dear to Him. You become His dear most servant, and in the end, you go back to Him. Of course, in China, you have to be careful. It is more complicated, but that is the basic principle. And Giridhari Swami, in his presentation, he showed different examples of bad japa. And, there was a picture of the devotee just sleeping.

So, when we first came to India, there was a very big article about us in the most popular weekly magazine in India. It is called The Illustrated Weekly of India, and the article was eight, ten, twelve pages, with many color photos. And there was one of them of me with my hand in my beads, and my head was down like this. And, the caption of the photo was, “Hare Krishna Devotee in Meditation.” So I was in the room with Srila Prabhupada and Tamal Krishna Goswami when that magazine came. And Tamal Krishna Goswami, he was turning the pages and looking at the pictures. And then we saw that picture, and then he showed the picture to Srila Prabhupada. He said, “Look, Srila Prabhupada there is a picture of Giriraj. It says he is meditating. Do you think he was meditating?” So yes, I thought of that this morning.

So it is time to end. Of course, I am looking forward to seeing you later in the day and of course, again tomorrow. So, we will end with one strong maha-mantra, Hare Krishna. Wait, wait, wait, wait wait, wait, we do responsibly. 

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna, Krishna Hare, Hare.

Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama, Rama, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much.

Devotee: We have a last request. I am a disciple of Tamal Krishna Goswami, and I would like to request a big blessing from you, for all of us here so that we can make spiritual advancement

Giriraj Swami: I was thinking of him every moment that I was here with you, and I was praying. And I will make a special request to him to help all of you. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Tamal Krishna Goswami Maharaja ki jaya!

Giridhari Swami Maharaja ki jaya!

Indradyumna Swami Maharaja ki jaya!

Ṛtadhvaja Swami Maharaja ki jaya!

Nityananda Swami Maharaja ki jaya!

Gaura-Bhakta Vrnda ki jaya!

Nitai-Gaura premānande Hari Haribol

Hare Krishna!