Darshan with Niranjana Swami’s Disciples

Devotee: How did you get acquainted with Maharaja? How you started your devotional service together and what you know about him when he was young and how he progressed and all the stories because it is joined together.

Giriraj Swami: I met Srila Prabhupada in Boston and I joined the temple in Boston. That was in April of 1969. And then in October of 1970, I went to India and I never went back to Boston except in about 1980/82/84. I went one time to Boston for Ratha-yatra and then I met His Holiness Niranjana Swami. He was the temple president in Boston. We spent some time together. We visited the place where the first temple in Boston was—95 Glenville Avenue—and we visited the place where the second temple was—40 North Beacon Street—and we had some nice association.

Then one year I came to Vrindavan during Kartika and one evening during the Dāmodarāṣṭakam, Srila Niranjana Swami led the kirtan and I didn’t recognize him but the sound went very deep into my heart, into my soul, and it had a similar effect on everyone else in the temple, and devotees began to dance madly in the temple. Even recently I discussed this kirtan with Srila Niranjana Swami—he remembered it—it was very special. 

Then I ended up having my base in Santa Barbara, California, and he was mainly in Europe and India, and the East Coast of the United States, and I never had occasion to meet him. But he had an old friend near Santa Barbara named Sarvatma. So one year he came to spend a couple of days with Sarvatma and he met me, he came and spent a day with me. And we had a lot of the same friends—His Holiness Radhanath Swami, His Holiness Indradyumna Swami, His Holiness Bhakti Bhrnga Govinda Swami—but we had never really spent that much time together. But that time we became very close and then he had the idea that he would come every year. 

He went through a period where his health was not so good and he spent some months with me. My place is very good for health. There is a nice physical facility for the devotees to stay in and the climate is good, the prasāda is good, there is no pressure to attend any programs or meet any devotees. He had different ailments at different times. So he stayed for one or two or three months at a time. And then one year he spent a couple of months and then he left and then I was surprised because very soon thereafter he phoned me and said that he was having a health crisis and he immediately thought of me and so he wanted to come and stay with me. And he stayed maybe four months and then from my place he went to Hungary and was staying at New Vraja-dhama.

Then, as you know, his health gradually got better. He did come to Santa Barbara earlier in the year and spent less than a week and then fortunately we were just together in India in Juhu and then in Govardhana.

So this is a general overview.

Now you are talking about his Vyasa-puja. So I mentioned that he had a very severe crisis and stayed for many months and then I think the next time he came—there were different crises. At one stage he had surgery done on his knee and it made it worse so he was coming. I had a disciple who is an acupuncturist so he would come two or three times a week even though he had to drive two to two and a half hours each way. By the time it became his birthday he was somewhat better. On the day of his birthday, on the Western calendar, he was chanting japa with me in my temple room and he received a phone call from his sister, and from what I could hear from him speaking with her I understood it was his birthday. You know he is very humble so he never told us and then the call was taking some time so then he went out of the temple room and I was chanting in the temple room. I was overwhelmed with I would say, flood but more than a flood, an inundation of mercy, and so many realizations, so much emotion, and I understood that this flood of mercy was in reciprocation for all the service I had done for him on the last visit. It was very powerful. 

But to go back, the very first time he came to Santa Barbara he stayed with Sarvatma, and then the next time he stayed some days with Sarvatma and the rest with me. At the time he stayed longer and there was a japa retreat in Ojai, the first japa retreat I ever attended. But I was very torn because I didn’t want to leave him but he didn’t want to attend the retreat because he was trying to rest and recuperate and he was afraid too many people would approach him at the retreat. So I went to the retreat on the first night and I said, “I can’t stay because I have His Holiness Niranjana Swami and I can’t leave him.” So they said, “Why doesn’t he come to the retreat?” So I said, “He feels if he comes devotees will have expectations and then he wouldn’t be able to take care of himself.” So they said, “No, we promise we won’t ask him to do anything.” So then he came and the only thing he participated in was the evening kirtan and he said he wanted to participate in the evening kirtans because Bada Hari dasa was there. So that was very nice.

I knew that His Holiness Niranjana Swami had taste for chanting the holy name. It is a principle that if you serve someone in the right mood, you take on the qualities of the person. So I thought, “This is very good. I want to develop more taste for the holy name so if I serve His Holiness Niranjana Swami.” And it happened. And the japa retreat also helped. 

And then maybe the same visit or maybe on a future visit I was at the beach in Carpinteria chanting and I was going very deep in my japa. It was a very good session of japa. It was the type where you didn’t want to stop chanting. But before I went to the beach His Holiness Niranjana Swami said that if it is not inconvenient for me and if I come back early enough he would like to speak with me. And again, His Holiness Niranjana Swami is very humble and he doesn’t like to ask for anything. So when he asked in a very mild and gentle way I thought, “This is unusual. He doesn’t usually ask for anything. It must have some significance.” So I went to the beach and I was having a wonderful session of japa and I didn’t want to stop but I could see the sun was going down, it was going to be late, and during that period Niranjana Swami was taking rest at about eight. So I was torn. I didn’t want to stop chanting but at the same time I was thinking, “If I don’t go now then it may be too late.” So I was just chanting and thinking and then I felt that the holy name gave me the answer to my question and the holy name said that or I imagined that the holy name said that, “Niranjana Swami is very dear to me. He is spreading the holy name all over the world so you should go back and speak with him and whatever you miss from stopping your chanting now, I will make up to you later.” So I came back and we spoke.

There were many visits but now we are in the stage of telling the specific stories. I am not going to say which story was which visit but one time before he left, the day before he left, I went up to speak with him, and I knew that he had a lot of faith in Srila Gour Govinda Swami, so I asked him, “Do you pray to Srila Gour Govinda Swami?” And he said, “Yes.” And then he said, “And I pray to you too.” But that wasn’t on my mind so I left it. But then the next morning I asked him, “Is that true that you pray to me?” And he said, “Yes.” And he said every morning he prays to different godbrothers and Gour Govinda Swami and Sivarama Swami, Indradyumna Swami—he mentioned a few names and he mentioned my name. So I said, “That is amazing because I also pray to you.” And he said, “Well, I don’t know how that works because I am getting all my strength from all of you.”

Then there was another. . . because many godbrothers come. So one time when Srila Niranjana Swami was staying in the main quarters upstairs His Holiness Devamrita Swami also came to spend some days. So we both went up to Niranjana Swami’s quarters. In the evening I asked everyone if they wanted to have any prasāda and they both said no. So we left it at that. But then when Devamrita Swami came up it turned out he was hungry. So Niranjana Swami went into the kitchen, his kitchen in his quarters, and he began to make toast and cheese and lettuce and tomatoes and olive oil. He didn’t have that much but whatever he had he was just offering it to Devamrita Swami. Toast and almond butter and jam.

He was so happy. He is always happy but there is also a lot of pain, physical pain, but even though there would be a lot of physical pain, he’d still be in a good mood. His Holiness Indradyumna Swami came and stayed once when Niranjana Swami was there and he also commented that Niranjana Swami is amazing because even though he is in so much physical pain, he is always happy. But that night when he was making prasāda he was extremely happy. And I said, “Maharaja, I don’t think I have ever seen you this happy.” And he said, “Yes, I am very happy because I am finally getting an opportunity to serve my godbrothers.” He said, “Service is my life. Without service there is no reason to live.”

Then another little incident, we really try to take care of the guests especially my godbrothers when they come, and we are usually pretty efficient. But one morning I went up to his room and I saw his laundry on the floor and it seems there was maybe some misunderstanding among the servants who were supposed to do the laundry and his room hadn’t been cleaned. I said, “Maharaja, it looks like you have two days of laundry here. Hasn’t anyone come to take the laundry?” He said, “No.” And I said, “It also looks like the room hasn’t been cleaned for a day or two. Hasn’t anyone come?” “No.” So I said, “Maharaja, why didn’t you tell us? We are here to serve you. Why didn’t you tell us? And you don’t seem to be disturbed by it. What is going on?” And he said, “I always feel that I don’t deserve anything and therefore I never ask and I don’t feel disturbed if I don’t get something.”

Of course spending so many months together and then maybe we will stop here. I did come for his Vyasa-puja in Ukraine in January two years ago. I don’t know if any of you were there. You are Vrindavan people now. But I would say in an overview that he is a very exceptional soul and a tremendous credit to Srila Prabhupada because he can do so many things so well. It is very rare to find one person who can do so many things so well. He gives wonderful classes, he leads wonderful kirtans, he is very good at counseling devotees individually, and he is very good at organizing and managing. Ukraine is one of the best zones in the whole world. And he is so humble and selfless and Krishna conscious. He is always chanting, singing, reading, serving. So he is really unique—of course everyone is unique. I just feel he is a great credit to Srila Prabhupada and a tremendous positive factor in ISKCON. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Do you know how Niranjana Swami likes his Vyasa-puja to be held? Are there some specific desires of him you know? His likes or dislikes?

Giriraj Swami: One year he was with us and he had maybe two or three disciples in Los Angeles and so they wanted to have a little something for him and he was also extremely considerate because he knows that I also have to take care of my health and work on my own projects so he doesn’t like to invite people. . . he will never invite anyone to see him at my place because he doesn’t want to put any burden on me. So for his Vyasa-puja he went to a house in Los Angeles and they made a feast with pizza and I know his diet and when he described the feast I understood it was completely off his diet. But he said that he read somewhere very serious statement by a medical person that every once in a while if you go off your diet and have things that you really like that it is actually very good for your system and it actually improved your health and he felt that that was the effect of having the pizza and French fried and pies and sweets. 

But it very hard to know what he wants because he never tells you what he wants because he doesn’t want you to take trouble for him. So many times I would propose something and he would agree but I never if that was really what he wanted. So then I would have to propose something different to see how he reacted to that and then I tried to judge his reaction to see if in some subtle way he indicated a preference for one over the other. Because basically he doesn’t want to give people trouble for him.

Last year I went to Kazakhstan for the Janmashtami Festival and Srila Niranjana Swami was there too. So after the festival was over we decided to go for a walk and there is a river, fresh running water coming down the Himalayas. There is a nice pathway along that stream so we went for a japa walk. He has a bad knee—different ailments—so we walked for a while and we decided we would sit by the stream and chant. And he had a car and driver so we went to sit by the stream and chant and his assistant brought out a chair. So I assumed the chair was for him. So I gestured you sit there and I will go sit on the rocks. He said, “No, I brought the chair for you.” He had back problems too. I said, “You have back problems.” He said, “You do too.” I said, “But your back problems are worse than mine.” So, I said, “By your association I want to learn how to be a good servant even though it is not my natural condition but I want to learn. So much of the time I am only thinking of myself and this one time I want to think of someone else instead of myself. So please do not deprive me of this opportunity.” I could see he was getting persuaded so I said, “Anyway no matter what happens I am not going to sit in the chair. Even if you don’t sit on the chair I am not going to sit on the chair.” And then I walked to the side of the river and I sat down on a rock and then he sat on the chair.

This is a little different but I will mention it. So that was Kazakhstan and then from Kazakhstan we went to Ukraine for the Evpatoria Festival and then from Ukraine we went to Hungary for the Radhastami Festival. At the end of the festival I had to catch a flight to Philadelphia. It was a long flight and I only had a couple of days in Philadelphia and then I had to facilitate a japa retreat with His Holiness Sacinandana Swami. So, from the farm, New Vraja-dhama, to the airport, it is about a three hour drive. I remember we had to get up at three in the morning. In the same vehicle there a young lady who I’d seen at the festivals in Ukraine and of course in Hungary and it turned out that I was flying to London and from London to Philadelphia and she was flying to London and from London to Toronto. Actually her flight was later than mine. She had a longer wait in the airport. I said, “Look, why don’t you try to get on the same flight with me to London.” “The flights were all full.” “Just try. Just try.” So she got on the same flight.

So we were going through security and emigration and I had a lot of things to carry and she just took charge. She just organized everything. There was some fast line. She just moved us into the fast line and she really took charge and was really helping. Same in London because we had several hours.

Her name was Vrindavan Vinodini, a disciple of Srila Niranjana Swami, and I took it that she was like deputed by him to help me. She was really good. It was almost like being with Srila Niranjana Swami although in one sense the roles were a little reversed. I was more in the position that he is in when he visits me and she was more in the position that I am in when he visits me. 

So we sat down in the general lounge and she said, “You have a business class ticket don’t you?” I said, “Yes, I do.” She said, “There is a special lounge for business class passengers.” I said, “Yes, that is true, but I didn’t think it was proper. You have been helping me so much I didn’t think it was proper that I should be in the business class lounge when you are in the general lounge.” She said, “No, you must go in the business class lounge. It is for your health.” So I said, “Well, what about you?” “I will be in the general lounge and fifteen minutes before you have to come down, I will come up and wait for you and I will help you carry your bags down.” 

In the end she was really glorifying Niranjana Swami especially how much care he takes of devotees and especially his disciples. She said she cannot imagine anyone who could take such care of devotees and especially his disciples as Niranjana Swami. She actually felt sorry she was a burden to him because he would worry about her. I also agreed with everything she said—not about her—but about him. I said, “Yes, it is true.” And he takes extraordinarily good care of his godbrothers as well. He goes out of his way to help his godbrothers. And I’d heard that about him and I’ve seen it also. I asked him why he gives so much priority to caring for his godbrothers and he said because he felt that would please Srila Prabhupada more.

Then at the end of it I said, “I am taking you as Srila Niranjana Swami’s representative. You have taken such good care of me.” And she said, “Actually I am very selfish. I think about myself all the time. And this is one time that I was inspired to think of someone else so I must thank you.” 

She wrote me to say that Niranjana Swami was going to be observing his Vyasa-puja in America this year and that devotees from America would come. She wanted me to write something. This is also very paradoxical because she said she knows I am very dear to her guru maharaja and that he would be happy to hear from me but the thing is that I know that he does not like to be praised. It makes him feel very uncomfortable. So I am sure it would make the disciples happy but I don’t know how happy it will make him. but he is always in the mood of serving the devotees so I am sure in the mood of service he will tolerate his personal discomforts for the sake of encouraging the disciples. He’ll feel uncomfortable.

So what should I do?

Devotees: You must write something to make pleasure to Maharaja and disciples—both.

Giriraj Swami: That is good advice. I will write him that this is not directed to him but it is directed to his disciples and if he doesn’t want to read it or listen to it, he doesn’t have to.

There have been occasions when we have spoken together, for example, last year at the Kazakhstan festival we both spoke about Vaishnava compassion. The devotees wanted to hear from me about Srila Prabhupada so I spoke about Srila Prabhupada and Vaishnava compassion. So those talks were transcribed and edited. There are a few like that. I think he puts them on his website.

Devotee: How can the disciples better satisfy our Niranjana Swami?

Giriraj Swami: He always describes our mission as described in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta to taste Krishna consciousness and distribute it. So in general terms he wants all of his disciples to do that. And specifically he wants devotees to care for each other. He does not like devotees to criticize other devotees and gossip about other devotees.

He wants everyone to be in the mood of servant. He is certainly in the mood of servant and that is our constitutional position— jīvera svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya-dāsa—and especially gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ —being the servant of the servant of the servant. Of course he is very concerned about book distribution but that may apply more in Ukraine but he is very much involved in the organization of book distribution and Ukraine is always very high in the world in book distribution.

All of Prabhupada’s programs but I think this is a very big focus of his, devotee care. His book Caring for Krishna’s Devotees has become a very popular book and translated in many languages.

Devotee: In one of his books he wrote, “Giriraj Maharaja, he is so dear to me” and he described his meetings with you and he glorified you very much.

Giriraj Swami: He loves to glorify Vaishnavas in general and godbrothers in particular. When we were at Govardhana the idea was that Vaisesika Prabhu and Niranjana Swami and I would all speak and Niranjana Swami introduced Vaisesika Prabhu and me and I really wanted to introduce him because it would me an opportunity to glorify him but somehow the morning session time got used up just with the kirtan and Vaisesika Prabhu and me. So I missed the chance to introduce him. It really would have been a way to glorify him but he doesn’t like that. “Now everyone go take prasāda.”

We had so many walks and talks. Of course it would depend on his knee and his back. So many walks. And then we would also sit at the beach and chant together, one day we were sitting and chanting and for his health he was supposed to eat every few hours I guess for acid reflux or something. So when we would go for our afternoon walk we would pack some fruit for him or really we put fruit in his kitchen and he would take what he wanted. So we were sitting in two chairs at the beach chanting and then he started to have his fruit and he would be throwing the peels and skins and pips and then the birds would come. I said, “Maharaja, I don’t know what pious activities those birds have performed but they are all getting liberated. I can practically see them going to back to Godhead right in front of my eyes by eating your remnants.”

Devotees: Did you have talks about Srila Prabhupada with Niranjana Swami?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Devotee: What were you speaking about?

Giriraj Swami: First I want to say something about his kirtan. We do a lot of kirtan but one time in particular we went to another devotee’s house and so he was playing the harmonium and singing a song by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura in a very humble mood in which he speaks about himself as being a very fallen person. The way Maharaja sang that song it was like every word entered deep in my heart and I was crying during the whole time. Afterwards I mentioned it to him and he said that when he was singing he also was crying internally. So yes, he is an excellent musician and he has a lovely voice, but it is really the consciousness or the feeling within his heart that touches the hearts of people who hear.

As far as what we discussed, he is very philosophical, so it is not that we would decide to discuss Prabhupada but we would discuss some philosophical point and that would make me think of something that Srila Prabhupada said or did. Another thing we used to like to do is watch the Following Srila Prabhupada DVDs together. So there was one DVD that depicted the devotee was speaking about Prabhupada’s first visit to Vrindavan with his disciples. So Prabhupada had his own car but the car broke down so then Prabhupada rode in the bus with all the disciples. They were nearing Vrindavan and devotees had never been to Vrindavan before. They were going with Prabhupada and they were waiting to hear him speak about Krishna and Krishna’s pastimes in Vrindavan. So as they were travelling there was some construction going on, on the side of the road. You look out the window you see so many things. So Prabhupada cleared his throat and it was clear that he was going to say something and it was the first time that he was speaking on the whole trip on the way to Vrindavan. The devotees were waiting to hear what is Prabhupada going to say. So he cleared his throat, the devotees were on the edges of their seats, and he said, “Cement. We have to get enough cement for the construction.” And then Niranjana Swami was sitting next to me watching it, he just laughed and he said, “Prabhupada.”

One time when Srila Niranjana Swami was staying with me, Srila Radhanath Swami came to stay also. I had time with both of them but they didn’t have so much time with each other. So I went for my afternoon walk—I am very regular—and then the two of them spent time talking. They were discussing talking about Srila Prabhupada and then they came to the point that in the world there are two people who speak the most about Srila Prabhupada and relate things to Srila Prabhupada, Brahmananda Prabhu and me, but then they concluded of the two of us I was more than Brahmananda Prabhu. I shouldn’t have said that because he is my senior but because you asked.

Devotee: I asked you because Maharaja told that he may be saw Prabhupada only three time during his life and Srimati Mataji at one of his Vyasa-puja she told that he has the most strong faith in Srila Prabhupada. So I am interested how he develops this faith or how he developed this faith in Srila Prabhupada when he had so few contacts alive with Srila Prabhupada.

Giriraj Swami: By following the instructions. Very early he was distributing books, which was the main program that Srila Prabhupada emphasized. And by following the instructions you get results and when you get the results then your faith increases. But yes, he really has faith in Srila Prabhupada. He has faith that anyone who comes in touch with Srila Prabhupada in any way and receives Srila Prabhupada’s merciful glance will benefit. He reads a lot. So often I would go up to his room and he would be reading, chanting, serving.

Why don’t you ask him that question?

Devotee: Because usually our time or association with him is very short and during the last two years he didn’t come to Vrindavan because his health was bad. Besides a lot of devotees usually want to solve their own problems, intimate problems from their life but I have no such big problems as they have so I can’t ask such questions.

Giriraj Swami: It is like that. Once I had the idea that I wanted to come to Vrindavan and not be have to deal with disciples and I said I could tell the disciples not to come and the more submissive or surrendered ones wouldn’t come and the other ones would come. And because they would come I would feel I had to do something for them. So I said it is like the good ones would end up being punished and the bad ones would end up getting rewarded. He said, “I know what you mean. It happens to me all the time.” So, I guess you are one of the good ones who doesn’t burden him with your problems. All are good. Because you are very good so I will ask him for you.

Devotee: Because all the disciples would like to develop the qualities the spiritual master has that all that Srila Prabhupada disciples had, because it was written that all the disciples of Srila Prabhupada are like pearls, they have different qualities of Srila Prabhupada. It is very natural if you want to return to the spiritual world it is necessary to develop all the best qualities that is possible. But it very few time for association especially with our Maharaja to ask such questions because he is very busy or he is ill and it is unwise to disturb him. so we use all the opportunity to know about him asking you.

Devotee: Prabhu is asking you were associating with Niranjana Swami a lot and can you tell what makes Niranjana Swami feel joy most of all.

Giriraj Swami: Actually you reminded me of a very important point. As I mentioned earlier I never saw him so happy as when he was serving but many times he told me about accepting service from disciples that he only likes to accept service from them if they are enthusiastic to voluntarily offer the service. He feels they should hear him, they should hear the philosophy and be convinced of the philosophy, and being convinced of the philosophy they should welcome the opportunity to serve a Vaishnava or by hearing the philosophy from him, if they feel gratitude toward him and voluntarily want to reciprocate and offer some service to him then he feels comfortable accepting it. But if they are doing it just because they have to do it. And sometimes it might happen that someone comes in an enthusiastic mood in the beginning for some time but then they lose their enthusiasm and then they just do it as a matter of duty. So he doesn’t want to accept service from them when they are in that mood. He feels they should go back and hear the philosophy so that they feel that it is in their interest to do the service not just that they have to do it because it is their service but they feel that they will actually benefit by doing the service. And so they are happy to do the service because they feel it will contribute to their spiritual advancement and that is their main interest, their spiritual progress.

So just to summarize the answer, he’ll be pleased if you offer service with enthusiasm and gratitude and if you are lacking in enthusiasm, a spontaneous desire to serve, then you should hear the philosophy, hear his talks so that your desire to serve, your enthusiasm will come back. It is not an external activity that will please him but it is more the mood of service.

I am sure if you are happy in Krishna consciousness, he will be happy. I think really he just wants to see his disciples, like I said, tasting Krishna consciousness and distributing it. So what do you do?

Devotee: Distribute books. Hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana.

Giriraj Swami: I am sure he is pleased. Again, it is the effort but you are putting your efforts in an area that was very dear to Srila Prabhupada and is very dear to him. So I think he is pleased. 

Devotee: How it usually happen when the spiritual master is satisfied by the service of his disciple? What processes are going on? Is it some individual process?

Giriraj Swami: Once someone asked Srila Prabhupada, “How do we know if you are pleased with our service,” and Srila Prabhupada said, “My representatives are there, the GBC and temple president.” So he was saying in a very practical sense if your immediate authority is pleased then he’ll be pleased.

Devotee: There are a lot of mediums but some of them satisfied and some of them not satisfied.

Giriraj Swami: If your guru maharaja then Krishna is satisfied and that is what our process is. I think you can also get personal reciprocation in your heart. Many devotees when they distribute books they feel Prabhupada’s reciprocation and their spiritual master’s reciprocation. But it could be anything—not just distributing books. It could be cooking, it could be cleaning, serving devotees and generally if the devotees are pleased, it is a good sign. But you can’t please everyone. It is very hard to please everyone.

Devotee: Why every time when Maharaja came to Vrindavan, he leaves at Govardhana and he don’t want to see his disciples because the disciples are eager to meet Maharaja and take his instructions because the association with the spiritual master is like control of your level of advancement or your falldown because there is no other means or method to notice it. And if you don’t see Maharaja there is no control or criteria to appreciate oneself because we have very different relations with other devotees as the previous Mataji asked somebody likes us, somebody dislikes, and so their opinions are very different and only Maharaja can really appreciate the situation. Is it good or is it bad and what is the way out of the situation?

Giriraj Swami: This is a very good question. I didn’t mention it earlier but when I was in Vrindavan during Kartika when Maharaja led the kirtan in the temple I didn’t really know him but later a common friend of ours invited us both for lunch. Niranjana Swami said that he came in Vrindavan in Kartika because he wanted to focus on his personal, spiritual practices, but so many people approach him that he can’t do it. And he said, “I am never coming back to Vrindavan during Kartika.”

Now he did come during Kartika but not to Vrindavan here but to Govardhana. The senior preachers they really give a lot of themselves during the year when they travel and preach and they also need time for themselves to deepen their own Krishna consciousness. If you read the biography of Srila Prabhupada, the biography of SBSST, they spent years and years and years focusing mainly on their own spiritual development before they really began their missions, but we were engaged in the mission from the very beginning. But at least during some time of the year we or they should be given the facility.

At Govardhana your guru maharaja was given Kesava Bharati Maharaja’s room to stay in. that room is the most public room in the whole Bhaktivedanta ashram and Kesava Bharati Maharaja is a very sociable person. People go to the Govardhana Palace means they visit Kesava Bharati Maharaja. So, so many people would come to the palace and open the door to Kesava Bharati Maharaja’s room and find Niranjana Swami and he had to spend a lot of time meeting people who didn’t even know he was there. 

So he was planning to stay up to a certain date but in the meantime there was a very big meeting of counselors in Kiev. So he left early to go to the counselors meeting because he thought it is a very important meeting. He said if he was able to go deep in his bhajana he might have wanted to stay longer in Vrindavan but he couldn’t really go deep in his bhajana because of all the visitors. He thought he might as well go to Kiev for the meeting. 

But this brings up the other answer to your other question because within your question was a presumption that is not necessarily correct because you are saying if you don’t have association with your guru maharaja, who will be able to assess your spiritual position and who will be able to correct you or give you the instructions that you need to advance. That is a very limited view of the guru to think that the guru can only speak to you through his one physiological body. The ultimate guru is Krishna, the original guru is Krishna. 

Niranjana Swami told me and he had the discussion with Radhanath Swami and they both agreed that without the counselor system they could not initiate so many disciples because they cannot personally take care of all the disciples. As spiritual masters they are responsible but they can’t personally take care of them so they have the counselor system. Now that may apply in Ukraine or Chowpatty but in Vrindavan, in a place outside their main zones, their specific counselor system may not be operating but the principle of accepting guidance from others exists if you want it. There are a lot of senior devotees, many of them with direct relationships with your guru maharaja, so you can also approach them, but to some extent, if it is Indradyumna Swami or Govinda Swami, they may be in the same mood that they are preaching all the time and come to Vrindavan. But still I believe if you really need guidance, Krishna will arrange for you to get the guidance that you need.

Prabhupada has left. How do we get guidance? You can’t depend on the physical presence of the spiritual master. You have to be able to get his instructions in other ways. Or a nice example I heard yesterday when you go to a doctor’s office there are assistants and technicians and nurses so they take your weight and your height and your blood pressure and they do the blood tests and they get all the information. You don’t even need the doctor. You don’t need to meet the doctor. But if you are very sick and your symptoms are out of control then the doctor may personally have to intervene. So we shouldn’t be in that mood.

Another realization I had specifically in relation to Srila Niranjana Swami is that Krishna in the heart helps because he is so sincere. It happened to me. On his first visit to Santa Barbara it was only maybe four day visit and he was staying with Sarvatma Prabhu but Sarvatma Prabhu let him come for a day to be with me. But before Maharaja left I had some questions I wanted to ask him and I knew Maharaja’s health wasn’t that good. I also didn’t want to be a burden to him. the last evening there was kirtan at Sarvatma Prabhu’s place and during the kirtan almost all of my questions were answered by the guru in the heart. This is how I understood it that Srila Niranjana Swami is so sincere and so concerned and so caring that he would want the devotee to get the answer but because of his own physical limitations he can’t give the answer personally and directly so what I think is that Krishna in the heart helps Niranjana Swami by giving the devotee the answer in the heart because Niranjana Swami so much would want the devotee to get the answer but he just physically can’t give it himself.

Devotee: I asked you this question because I was taught from the very beginning that when we get some instructions or we heard some experience we must check our understanding with the senior devotees or some other spiritual masters who are qualified to identify processes that are going on inside our heart and with our soul because what you are talking just now I have some experience but I need some checkpoint. Is it correct maybe it is my speculations, maybe it is some sahajiyā mood or something like this because I am not qualified to identify myself what is wrong, what is right in some subtle processes. Besides, it is not possible to share some subtle experiences with the others because it usually disappears. When you share with somebody some inner processes, some intimate processes or relations as you have described, they usually disappear.

Giriraj Swami: You found out they disappear?

Devotee: Yes, it is some kind of loss. So when you are talking about something, the test usually comes to you but it is too much test sometimes. So I want to get now how the processes work and you answered my question.

Giriraj Swami: I will say one thing more that when you. . . you are saying you need a doctor who can give you a checkup and evaluate your condition and make some prescription if you need it. Now when you meet the doctor you have to tell him everything that he needs to know. If you withhold information then you will not get the best answer. Now it is true that if you talk about your spiritual practices or experiences it can go away because if you are advertising, “I chanted so many rounds,” or, “I did so many austerities,” or, “I got so much mercy,” “I am so fortunate,” to impress people then some pride will come in your heart and everything will be lost. But if you are really in doubt and you really feel you need guidance from some superior authority and if you tell them very humbly, “this is my situation,” in the mood of begging them for some mercy in the form of some direction then you won’t lose it.

Devotee: I have a lot of situations where there were meetings of the disciples of Niranjana Swami and we usually share our experience during the month because we have meetings once a month and usually I was asked the first. I was first very enthusiastic and I tell what is inspiring me during this time and I feel such joy and inspiration and enthusiasm inside me very greatly that it is flowing out. When I told about it, next meeting the other disciples told me, “We are so inspired. It was really great,” for example, “I feel ecstatic reading Vrindavan –amṛta, The BG and Ekādaśī—The Day of Lord Hari.” They say, “They are such great books. We are also inspired and we feel joy and happiness,” but I have lost my interest though I have no intention to be glorified and no pride has come. I simply was enjoying this and I share my happiness and understanding that came during this process. 

There were some other occasions when you tell about some great things like books or lectures or somebody’s words, quotes, and I lost interest. Maybe this process was finished and some events or some other processes started. Maybe like this. I simply would like to clear up what is going on. I can tell you sincerely that there were no other feelings besides to share my joy and happiness and enthusiasm about what we were speaking about, about reading books, about listening to the lectures, about doing some austerities or sadhana it really works. I simply share but when I told about it, they finished or simply they didn’t come to my life again.

Giriraj Swami: If you ask me personally, I feel this is a question for the doctor. I feel in this case I am just the nurse but you cannot meet the doctor very easily so as the nurse I will inform the doctor of your peculiar condition and I think that, I can’t say for sure but I think you may get an answer.

Devotee: How to understand the guru’s heart because at Govardhana after the darshan of the devotees, the disciples who were at the Vraja-mandala parikramā—14 people—came to have darshan of Maharaja and he gave the darshan to us and when I asked him the question about the instruction, he told that it is necessary to understand the guru’s heart. So I would like to know how to understand guru’s heart?

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada said there are three classes or categories of disciples. So in the second category you get an instruction and you execute it perfectly and in the first category you know the guru’s heart, he doesn’t even have to tell you and you know what he wants. So if you act in the second category then gradually and eventually you will come to the first category and you can pray. In a way I didn’t see it in those terms before but in a way Prabhupada did that with me because I always did what he said or my authorities said and then he told me that I should decide where in India I wanted to serve. I said, “I will do whatever you want. Just tell me and I will do whatever you want.” And he said, “No, I want you to decide.” 

So I had to pray to understand what Prabhupada would want me to do without his telling me. I did a lot of chanting and a lot of praying and I didn’t get an answer at first and then one day it just came. So you can pray, you can discuss with likeminded devotees. By this type of satsaṅga that we had, sort of iṣṭagoṣṭhī, it is probably becoming more clear what Srila Niranjana Swami, what he wants, what he likes, what he doesn’t like, what is in his heart.

Giriraj Swami: I feel that because your guru maharaja is so sincere and so nice and so committed, so dedicated, so you also are showing the same qualities. So I could feel his sincerity and niceness and dedication coming through all of you. I could perceive Srila Niranjana Swami good influence on all of you because he is very sincere and I see that all of you are also very sincere and he is very thoughtful and I see that all of you are very thoughtful and he is very sweet and I see all of you are very sweet. So it was a very nice experience for me and I think he is pleased. Hare Krishna.

Srila Niranjana Swami Maharaja ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!