SB 6.3.27

Devotee:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

So, we are reading from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Six, Chapter Three,

TEXT 27

te deva-siddha-parigīta-pavitra-gāthā

ye sādhavaḥ samadṛśo bhagavat-prapannāḥ

tān nopasīdata harer gadayābhiguptān

naiṣāṁ vayaṁ na ca vayaḥ prabhavāma daṇḍe

TRANSLATION

My dear servants, please do not approach such devotees, for they have fully surrendered to the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are equal to everyone, and their narrations are sung by the demigods and the inhabitants of Siddhaloka. Please do not even go near them. They are always protected by the club of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and therefore Lord Brahmā and I and even the time factor are not competent to chastise them.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

In effect, Yamarāja warned his servants, “My dear servants, despite what you may have done previously to disturb the devotees, henceforward you should stop. The actions of devotees who have surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Lord and who constantly chant the holy name of the Lord are praised by the demigods and the residents of Siddhaloka. Those devotees are so respectable and exalted that Lord Viṣṇu personally protects them with the club in His hand. Therefore, regardless of what you have done this time, henceforward you should not approach such devotees; otherwise you will be killed by the club of Lord Viṣṇu. This is my warning. Lord Viṣṇu has a club and cakra to punish nondevotees. Do not risk punishment by attempting to disturb the devotees. Not to speak of you, if even Lord Brahmā or I were to punish them, Lord Viṣṇu would punish us. Therefore do not disturb the devotees any further.”

COMMENT

So, that was Prabhupada presenting to us what Yamaraja would be saying to his servants, the Yamadutas.

So, sometimes when Prabhupada was present, he would sometimes have some of his disciples speak, even while he was there. And various reasons, he may not have been feeling well, or he just may have wanted to hear these boys actually understanding, whatever. And of course, they would do that, they had to, they cooperated and they would speak. But while they were speaking, they were always conscious that they were speaking on the instruction and request and the instruction of Srila Prabhupada with his permission, and if they were able to say anything worthwhile, it was only by his mercy. So, in the same way, I am speaking here in front of Giriraj Maharaja, my senior godbrother and my śikṣā-guru. So, I asked his permission earlier, and he said, “Please, go ahead and speak.” So, I am mentioning this now as well so all of you don’t think that I am just some audacious, puffed-up person. I am, but please, don’t think that. But anyway, at least I did ask, and Giriraj Maharaja gave me his permission to speak in his presence. And I hope by his mercy I can say something worthwhile.

So, this is a very interesting verse and purport. Of course, all of the verses and purports in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are. When I read this, the first thing that kind of popped, jumped into my mind was, I was thinking, Wow, this is amazing, here is Yamaraja speaking to the Yamadutas, giving them this instruction. But what is the specific incident that he is instructing them in relation to? It is they are going to get Ajamila, they were going to take Ajamila, who was this very, very sinful person, and they were going to bring his subtle body and soul, I guess both, to Yamaraja for judgment. And it seemed quite an appropriate thing to do. But we all very well know the story; Ajamila chanted out Narayana, calling out for his youngest son, and on the strength of that, he is being considered here a devotee and eligible to receive this special concession of not being punished by the Yamadutas. And I was thinking, Wow, he is really getting a lot of mercy. Because if you stop and think about what he did, I am not talking about all the sinful things he did, just the devotional thing he did, it wasn’t very much. He was calling out Narayana. And I have missed a lot of the classes because I have been traveling, but from what I remember from reading this part of the Bhāgavatam and all the classes I have heard about it, everybody is in agreement that when he was chanting out Narayana, he was calling out for his son.

I don’t think any of the commentators, and somebody can correct me if I am wrong, I don’t think any of the commentators’ state that right from the get-go, he was calling out for the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Narayana. From what I am understanding, all the commentators are in agreement that initially, he was calling out for his son. And I believe Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura in his commentary makes the comment that after he initially called out for his son Narayana, that reminded him of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana who he had worshiped in his younger days. And then, maybe from that point onwards, he was calling out for the actual Narayana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So, even so, it is just, at best he is mixed. If you analyze this on one level, he is just by mistake basically he is just inadvertently saying the name of Supreme Personality of Godhead, and at best, he is performing mixed devotional service, and that he started off just inadvertently calling out the name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and then he did it conscious, when he realized, “Oh, wait a second, I am calling for my son, let me call for the real Narayana, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.”

So, my point is that he is getting a tremendous amount of benefit for such a small amount of devotional service with mercy. He is just doing this little thing, and because of that, Yamaraja is here instructing his servants, the Yamadutas, “Don’t disturb these people.” He is being included within this category of devotees that shouldn’t be disturbed. Upon hearing these instructions, I would think, Well, that applies for somebody who is performing devotional service very nicely, very favorably for some long period of time, yes, those are the people that the Yamadutas shouldn’t disturb. But somehow or another, Ajamila is getting the benefit here, he is being included. It is this incident, which is instigating this Yamaraja giving these instructions to the Yamadutas.

So, wow, devotional service, from this we can understand how powerful, potent, and glorious it is that even just this little, little bit of devotional service that is being performed by Ajamila. And you could almost say, “Well, how is it even devotional service if he is just calling out for his son?” But anyway, he is getting such a tremendous amount of benefit. And of course, in the Second Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, there is a verse nehābhikrama-nāśo ‘sti pratyavāyo na vidyate sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt, “In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.” And Prabhupada explains in the purport that after receiving the human form of life, one goes back down into the lowest species. So, it protects one from that. Even if one engages in a little devotional service, that will protect him from that.

So, my immediate thought after that was, Wow, we have to get out there, we have to get out there, we have to try to give people the opportunity to engage in a little bit of devotional service, because even if they just engage in a little bit of devotional service, that will guarantee at least they get another human form of life. Just look at Ajamila, initially, he was just calling out for his son Narayana, and maybe he was remembering the Supreme Personality of Godhead Narayana, maybe not, but he got the benefit of not having to be dragged by the Yamadutas to hell and be judged by Yamaraja, etc., etc., etc. And he got another opportunity, he got a second chance to continue with the devotional service and eventually, went back to Godhead. So, we have to try to, as much as possible, give people the opportunity to engage in some devotional service. Ideally, a lot of devotional service, but at least if that is not possible, even a little devotional service, and that will enable them to get a human body in their next life.

Now, when you think about this, at least sometimes when I think about this, I think, Wow, is this really true? Is it? My service is book distribution, so I am out there all day long and I am meeting people who aren’t devotees. And I have to admit, a lot of the time when I talk to them and everything, at the end of the day, I think to myself, Well, these people didn’t seem that bad. Most of the people I met with were friendly and respectful. Some of them took books, some of them even showed quite a bit of interest, and they didn’t seem like such bad, bad people. It is not like at the end of the day, I am walking, I am driving away and thinking, Wow, what a bunch of demons. No, I just think, Okay, ordinary, nice people. And sometimes I have to think to myself, Well, is it really true that these people I am meeting who seem like really, basically, kind of ordinary, nice, people are really going to get such heavy punishment if they don’t take to Krishna consciousness? Of course, the answer is yes, because that is our philosophy, that is what the shastras say. And in an attempt to understand this point, I have tried to come up, just pondered upon it, and I have come up with a couple different things.

One analogy that came in my mind when I was trying to understand this point, “How is it that these people are really that bad, they are really that sinful?” Krishna says na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, “Four kinds of miscreants don’t surrender unto Me,” and He names them. So, these people are in that category. If somebody’s not surrendering to Krishna, then they are either a māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, narādhamāḥ. . . What is it? Duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, mūḍhāḥ. So, how was this? Well, one analogy that came to my mind was this. When I was younger, when I was fifteen years old, I went to driver’s education. I was born and raised in New York, and in New York, they had this program where as you took driver’s education, you can get your driver’s license a year early. So, actually, I got it three years earlier, I think. And I took driver’s education at fifteen years old, and from fifteen to sixteen, I could drive with another licensed driver in the car, and when I was sixteen, I had a full license and I could drive, that is the way it worked in the New York state. Maybe Maharaja did the same thing, I don’t know if he did.

So, now I was thinking, when I went to driver’s education school, I can never remember, one time, when the teacher there told me, “Don’t run anybody over, don’t crash into any other cars,” they never bothered, they never told me that, I was never taught that. Why? Because he just figured, “Hey, that is not necessary.” [laughter] He just expected, “These people over here, they know that much, I don’t have to bother even telling anybody that.” It is just taken for granted that all these students are going to know that. And of course, we did, he didn’t have to say it, we knew it, we all knew it, right? Just like in the same way my parents, they never told me, “Don’t stab your younger brother with a knife,” I don’t remember them never telling me that. Why? Because they just took it for granted that I knew that.

So, the analogy is that in the same way, Krishna has designed the human body and the human psyche in such a way that, because He is just taking it for granted that people are going to understand certain things about life and what they need to do. And somebody might think, sometimes we accuse the Christians, “So, you believe that if somebody doesn’t accept Jesus as their savior, then they are going to go to hell forever, eternally, and they are just going to be burned in hell eternally? That sounds really cruel and unfair, and how is that compatible, consistent with a loving father?” Well, some people could also turn around this, throw the same accusation at us, that, “You folks believe that people are going to lose the human form of life and have to descend at the lowest species just because they didn’t engage in devotional service? Well, most of these people don’t even get a chance to hear about devotional service. They don’t even get a chance to properly understand this philosophy, and you think that even without having that opportunity to really come in contact with this philosophy and have it explained to them properly that God is going to judge them so severely and punish them like that?” So it is similar; it is not as quite as heavy as going to hell and burning and burning in hell forever, but it is still pretty heavy.

So, once again, the idea being that Krishna has done His job. Human beings have an innate intelligence, so they express conscience. This is a philosophical speculation what I am indulging in now because it is a way in which I am trying to understand this point of how it is. So, people, they have that intelligence. And even though superficially it may appear that, “Well, how could they be expected to understand and behave better? They haven’t really had to explain to them properly,” but they should, they should. And just like I was expected to know that I am not supposed to run somebody over with the car or smash it into another car or something like that, people should know. And you could think, Well, but how is it that they are behaving so much like they don’t know anything? People are capable of diplomatic behavior, just like sometimes you might be in a situation where you see some very person who is really suffering or poor or something, on one level, “I should help that person.” Somebody might approach you for some help and inside you are feeling, like, “I should really do something to help this person,” but then you don’t do it, you just figure out some way to avoid it and diplomatically, you behave in such a way that you don’t look bad, but at the same time you don’t really do what your conscience was telling you to do, which is to help that person.

So, perhaps, that is what human society is doing. They know better, in other words; they know they shouldn’t be cruelly and mercilessly torturing and slaughtering so many innocent animals just for the satisfaction of their own tongue, they know that they shouldn’t be killing babies in the womb, they know that they shouldn’t be etcetera, etcetera, etcetera; all the different simple-like things that they are doing, but they can’t be bothered, and they are behaving in such a way that they are not really even doing anything wrong. I don’t know, if that doesn’t satisfy your intelligence, okay, it is an attempt on my part to try to understand how it is that people can be held accountable so seriously and accountable for such a serious thing in such a serious way, but superficially, it appears that they don’t have sufficient education, even being able to make an informed decision. But Krishna knows what He is doing. That is my point, that it might superficially appear unfair, but it is not. And in any of that, as devotees, our position is sastra sadhu, that whether it is satisfied by that realization that I just presented, or one of your that you come up with on your own, the bottom line is that this is what our shastras say. Our shastras and Prabhupada said it on many, many occasions, that people, if they don’t engage in devotional service, they are running the big risk of descending into the lower species in their next lifetime. So, that is how we have to be thinking.

And so, following off now, so we have to, as I started off, I mentioned earlier that we have to really be thinking how we can save them. And that was, of course, Prabhupada’s instruction on many, many, many occasions with how we can engage them in some devotional service. Prabhupada gave us some basic guidelines for doing that. There are three basic preaching programs that he gave us, which are prasādam distribution, hari-nāma, and book distribution. So, those are the three basic programs. But the general instruction, which includes everything, which is just, preach. And Prabhupada never specifically said, “Don’t do other things, don’t do this, don’t do that to attract people to Krishna consciousness,” he just gave those three programs, it is what he thought would be particularly effective. But of course, all other methods of preaching are also good. Somebody might not. . . whatever, they have another service or different considerations, might not be able to even engage in any one of those three, but what is stopping somebody from calling your parents and invite them to the temple, invite your brother and sister, invite your old friends. In other words, the idea is every devotee has to be in that preaching mood, has to be thinking, “How can I preach?” If you can do one of those things, great, but if you can’t do one of those things, it is incumbent upon every devotee to figure out some way that they can reach out and try to bring people to Krishna consciousness somehow or another.

Now, a devotee might be thinking, Well, I am not qualified to preach, or, I don’t think I would be successful, but you have to understand, you can’t think like that. It is not your call, it is not our call whether you are qualified or not, or whether you will be successful or not, that is up to Krishna, let Krishna be the judge. Our position is, as a matter of duty, we should all be thinking, How can I bring people to Krishna consciousness? How can I spread Krishna consciousness? And if the next thought that comes into your mind is, I am not qualified, I am don’t think I will be successful, as I said, let Krishna be the judge, that is not your call. And something we should really be understanding, and this just popped in my head this morning, or maybe yesterday when I was preparing for this class, that compassion is, sometimes they have this expression, so and so, he feels compassion. Yes, compassion is a feeling, but before it is a feeling, it is a decision. Compassion is a decision.

You might be asked to go out and preach, you might not be feeling, “Oh, I have to get out there to save these poor conditioned souls.” You might be feeling, Oh man, isn’t there any way I can get out of this? I really don’t want to do this. God, how can I get out of this? But if you go ahead and do it, you are compassionate, you see? You are compassionate. If you actually go ahead and follow through and go out and distribute the prasāda, go on hari-nāma and chant the holy names, go out and distribute books, you are acting compassionately, you are engaging in a compassionate activity. And our philosophy is that eventually, as you become more advanced and purified, the feeling will follow. That actual feeling of compassion will follow. But initially, it is a decision, it is a choice, it is done with the intelligence. The heart will follow later, but you start off with the intelligence, you see?

So, we have to do like that, we have to understand that this is what it is, and we have to make that decision. Based upon intelligently understanding the philosophy, we have to make the decision to try to be compassionate. And that is the way this Krishna conscious movement will spread. If we don’t do that, then how is the movement going to spread? And we hear repeatedly how we are supposed to try to follow in the footsteps of the previous acharyas. So, there is so many different qualities that we have to try to follow. But, if you stop and think about it, what was, I won’t say most outstanding quality, what was certainly one of the most outstanding qualities of Srila Prabhupada? It was his compassion, right? Definitely. If Prabhupada didn’t have the compassion, then we wouldn’t be here. So, in other words, in order to follow in Prabhupada’s footsteps, if somebody wants to try to follow in the footsteps of the predecessor acharyas, the most immediate one, Srila Prabhupada, you have to be compassionate. You have to be compassionate because Prabhupada was extremely compassionate.

Just something we have all heard many times, but, if you stop and think, Prabhupada was seventy years old when he left India. He wasn’t in great health. Obviously, the evident proof of that is that on the boat, he had two heart attacks on the way over. But he did it. On one of the first lectures he gave when he was in New York, he said some lady asked him, he was talking about Vrindavan, and she said, “Yes, I could see, actually, you don’t really want to be here.” And he said, “Yes, actually, Vrindavan is very nice.” And he said, “But I am in duty.” He said, “I am duty-bound, my spiritual master gave me this instruction, so I have come here to give this message to you people like that.” So, in other words, it wasn’t easy for Prabhupada to have to do that. On another occasion, before when he was trying to get Sumati Morarjee give him the ticket and to arrange for his passage on the Jaladuta. So initially, she didn’t want to do it. And I can’t remember if it was her or the secretary, Choksi who said to Prabhupada, “Well, we thought you just wanted to go sightseeing, we thought you just wanted to see America.”

I think it was Sumati Morarjee who said that to him or the secretary Choksi. But anyway, Prabhupada’s response was, and I always noticed it, “My life is finished. What is this sightseeing? My life is finished.” He was seventy. “There is no question of me going over there and enjoying.” There is no question of Prabhupada doing what he did for any motive of material enjoyment, seventy-year-old body. Prabhupada himself said, “My life is finished.” Meaning, if you stop and think about what does that mean, it means, “There is no question of me going over there and enjoying sightseeing. How do you enjoy sightseeing in a seventy-year-old body? You can’t enjoy anything in a seventy-year-old body.” I am experiencing that as you get older, and all of us who are getting older experience that. This body is like a tube of toothpaste. [laughter] There is a limited amount of toothpaste in the tube, and as you use it, there is less and less, if you have ever noticed. And when you get down towards the end of the tube, you have to really squeeze just to get even a little enough out on your brush so you can brush your teeth. So, that is the way it is. There is a certain amount of pleasure stored up in the body and as you use it, it is less.

I think Bhakti Vikasa Swami gives another example in one of his books, I believe it is in one of his books, maybe I heard it in a lecture here, about a sponge. You take a sponge, and you put it in the water, and you take it out. When you first take it out and set it on the table or whatever when it is full of the water, you can poke it, and actually, you don’t even have to touch it, the water is just oozing out. But even after that happens, if you just poke it, the water gushes out. And if you squeeze it a little bit, just give it a little squeeze, then the water comes oozing out all over the place. But as the water leaves the sponge more and more, then it becomes harder and harder to get the water out, until finally, when the water is just about out of that sponge, you can pick up that sponge, you have to really ring it to get even a drop out. So, that is what it is like getting older. When you are a kid, I remember when I was a kid, I didn’t have to do anything to be happy. I remember once, I had to take accordion lessons. And I had a friend, we used to go together to accordion lessons, and we didn’t want to go. So, we were standing by the bus stop, and it just rained earlier that day, so we were calculating, we were trying to figure out how we are going to get out of this, because we wanted to just go play basketball or whatever.

So, I saw a big puddle, and I said, “Okay, come here.” And my friend’s name is Kenneth, I said, “Come here.” I said, “Let us stand right here.” I pointed the puddle, I said, “That ought to get us,” meaning the car is going to come through the puddle, it will splash the water on us, and we would be all wet, and we couldn’t go to accordion lessons all wet, we would have to go home. So, anyway. So, I just said that much. But we laughed about that, he started cracking up, we laughed for about twenty minutes, just on this little stupid joke. Point being that, when you are a kid, you can enjoy anything, that just stood out in my mind. But as you get older, you might have the most perfect arrangements for enjoyment, you see all these, so many old people, they are going on these cruises and this and that. I actually feel sorry because I could tell, looking at the person’s body, they are not going to be able to enjoy anything. You just have to look at a person’s body and you can tell what they can enjoy, and what they can’t enjoy.

So Prabhupada didn’t; it wasn’t for material enjoyment that Prabhupada left India and came here to preach Krishna consciousness, it was just because he was incredibly dedicated to following instructions of the spiritual master, and compassionate. And so, basically, we have to try to follow in Prabhupada’s footsteps whether we are feeling it, whether we have that feeling, or whether we just have the intellectual understanding, both is good. If you are feeling it, wonderful, congratulations, you have made it, you are an advanced devotee. And if you are not, that is okay, don’t feel bad, just do it based on intelligence, just do the act, act as you are supposed to be acting, try to help people become Krishna conscious. That is good, you are acting properly by doing that, and in due course of time, with purification and advancement, that feeling will be there as well.

I can’t see the clock. Can somebody tell me what time it is? Okay. So, I will stop there. I hope maybe somebody has some question or some comments.

Devotee: Thank you, Prabhu, for a very nice class. I have a question about the verse, comment on the point of the punishment of time, or lack thereof, for devotees. And even if being competent, we understand that the time factor is Krishna.

Devotee: Nope, can’t comment, nothing’s coming to. . . I can’t think of what is the time factor. When I see that, I would think that that happens automatically. I know Krishna is time personified, but I really don’t understand, I don’t know what is meant by that. So, perhaps I could defer to Giriraj Maharaja, he could explain what does that mean. Yamaraja is saying, “They are always protected by the club of the Supreme Personality of Godhead,” I am reading it for the benefit of everybody else. “Therefore, Lord Brahma and I and even the time factor are not competent to chastise them.” So, the question is, what is being meant by the time factor is not competent to chastise them? Because one might think, “Well, that happens automatically.” It doesn’t seem like there is any personal consideration that but maybe Maharaja can comment on this.

Giriraj Swami: Well, on New Year’s weekend here, I spoke on the verse from the Second Canto, Third Chapter, that by rising and setting, the sun decreases the duration of life of everyone except those who utilize the time to discuss the glories of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And Srila Prabhupada explains in the purport that the rising and setting of the sun for a devotee brings him closer to his eternal life. So, because the devotee is engaged in devotional service, the time factor doesn’t affect him. It is also like the story that Prabhupada told, jivova marova, that whether he lives or dies, it doesn’t make any difference because he will be engaged in the service of the Lord, either in the present body or the next body. It would have to apply spiritually, because materially we know the time factor acts.

Devotee: Thank you. Anybody else have any question or comment? Maharaja.

Giriraj Swami: Well, first just to response to your preamble, to your talk, when I arrived here, Omkara Prabhu told me that you were scheduled to speak on Saturday, and I thought, Great, because I really wanted to hear the realizations of a person who goes out every day and distributes books in such large quantities. I was thinking, What is his realization that impels him and inspires him day after day, year after year? And I got my answer, got part of my answer today, as I thought I would. On that very interesting question that you brought up, I have actually spoken on that subject, because there is a verse. . .

Devotee: On whether Ajamila …?

Giriraj Swami: No, no, no, no, no, that you covered. How can we say that if someone doesn’t engage in devotional service, he is going to fall down? Yes. The verse is quoted in the purport to the last verse in the Sixth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, and it comes from the Eleventh Canto.

ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād,

ātma-prabhavam īśvaram
na bhajanty avajānanti
sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ 

The meaning of the verse is. . . ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād, anyone who doesn’t worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, ātma-prabhavam, means that he is the source of their creation, or their existence, which means he is their father. Na bhajanty, if you do not serve or worship him, avajānanti, or you disrespect or deride him, patanty adhaḥ, you fall down.

So, the commentaries raise the same question, “Even if you follow all the prescriptions of varnashrama-dharma according to your position, even then, Na bhajanty, if you don’t serve and worship the Supreme Lord, avajānanti, or you actively disrespect Him or deride Him, patanty adhaḥ, you fall down.” And they explain that ātma-prabhavam, because he is the source of you, he is your father, you have a certain responsibility to him. So, if someone is uninterested in his father, like people say, “Well, isn’t it enough just to be a good person? Why do I have to worship God?” Well, the answer is that God is your father. It is your duty to know who your father is; you have a relationship with him. Not only is he the source of your existence, but he is the source of your sustenance, he is the source of everything. So, the father is providing the child with everything, the child can’t say, “Well, I don’t need to know who my father is, I will just be a good person.” What does it mean to be a good person if you are not even aware of who your father is and all he is doing for you, and you are not reciprocating in your position? And therefore, it is not enough to say, “Well, isn’t it enough just to be a good person? Why do I have to worship God? I don’t lie, don’t steal, I don’t cheat, I don’t hurt anyone,” which of course it is not true that they don’t. [laughter] So, that is one answer to that question that you raised.

And one reason, I am sure you know very well, why this statement, although it resembles the statement of Christians who say, “If you don’t accept Jesus, you will go to hell forever,” is that we don’t have a sectarian idea here. Here the idea is, “You have to know who God is, you have to know who your father is, you have to appreciate that He is your father and all that He does for you, and reciprocate.” This has nothing to do with Jesus or Muhammad. This has to do with your existence as a living being. But yes, I thought it was a very good point you raised, a very, very good question, and I think your answer was also correct. Because we are part and parcel of Krishna, we, by nature, have all the good qualities of Godhead. And when we come to the human form, those qualities are uncovered to a certain degree, to the extent that it is understood that a person knows, without being told, certain things. And this verse highlights what it is that we should know, which is, we have a creator, and we have an obligation to Him. And if we don’t fulfill our obligation, we are punishable. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Yes, thank you, thank you very much because I felt that was an important point and I didn’t. . . Thank you so much for elaborating upon that, I think it added a lot of additional light onto the subject.

Giriraj Swami: And just one other comment. I thought your statement that compassion is not a feeling or just a feeling but it is a decision, I thought that was really appropriate. And many people have commented, and it is intrinsic to the definition of bhakti that love is not a sentiment but it is a process. So love, when manifested in relation to a dependent, it takes the shape of compassion, or mercy. With an equal it is friendship, and with a superior it is service. So, it is absolutely right what you said. And I never heard it expressed quite in the same terms with the same force. So, I will keep that in my mind at all times.

Devotee: I have a question on, just to take off from Maharaja’s point just now, and yourself or Maharaja, does that same degree of responsibility apply to civilized or uncivilized beings?

Devotee: Well, like Maharaja said, that human beings have the good qualities, and they are uncovered to a certain degree when you come to the human form of life. So, I guess the degree of responsibility would depend upon the degree of how much those good qualities are uncovered. And Krishna as the Supersoul would know because He is the one who is uncovering them. Krishna knows how much, really, what He is given that person to work with. And Krishna as the Supersoul is watching, “Okay, I have given you this much to work with, I have given you this particular body, you have this much understanding, you have this much intelligence, and I am watching what are you doing.” And if you perform nicely, “Okay, utilizing it nicely, good.” And then Krishna gives even more intelligence and uncover those good qualities even more. And if Krishna is not pleased. . .because we always have the free will. So, if Krishna sees that we are not performing nicely, then He can be displeased, and of course, then He could punish that person in accordance. That is the only thing I could come up with because, obviously, Krishna is aware. He knows exactly where everybody is and he knows exactly for that person what that behavior represents, does that represent real goodness and the defiant behavior, does that represent an attempt on his part to be very submissive and compliant, Krishna knows, and Krishna will respond accordingly.

Did I address your question there?

Devotee: Yes, but I think usually, that question comes up because do we give the same responsibility to a small child as you would an adult?

Devotee: No, no. A comment comes to mind that Prabhupada, I think on one occasion, talked about how the people in India. And this is, I can’t remember the exact words, but I heard this through devotees, that people in India are even in one sense, more responsible for when they act sinfully because they get a particular body and they are born in a particular culture where there is a lot of knowledge. And, the point was sinning in knowledge is more sinful than when you sin in ignorance. So, the more knowledge that is there, then the more you are responsible and the more you are held accountable for what you are doing. So, therefore, an adult, being in knowledge generally speaking, would be more accountable, be more serious if an adult does something that he knows he is not supposed to do, then if a child does the same thing, depending upon the amount of knowledge.

Devotee: Yes, again, the question is, typically in society, people think, This child is not responsible, why is it in a suffering condition? But we know from the Krishna conscious point of view that there is something beyond just the physical, there is a karmic reasoning there also. So again, in material society, generally people think, Well, why is this person having to suffer? or Why are they responsible for having fallen down or been put into a suffering condition? But from this verse, we are seeing that whether you are not worshiping or even disrespecting, there is a fall down. So, my question again was just, what degree of responsibility is there?

Devotee: Okay, …

Devotee: In the Mahabharat, there is a story of Mundaka Muni who was brought before Yamaraja because he had as a child pierced an ant with a straw, and therefore, he was going to be punished. And then, out of that, the end result was there was a mayata, a change or establishment of new code, that until the child is fourteen years old, there is no karmic responsibility. So, even though you come into this life with karma, that you are suffering or enjoying, in this life apparently, based on that story, you don’t develop any new karma until you get to fourteen.

Devotee: Well, that is interesting, I have never heard that before. I have heard that story, but I didn’t know that. What did you call it? A mayata? A boundary. Okay, so, I guess we could stop there. So, thank you very much.

Entourage Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!