SB 10.13.6 – Keeping Krishna in the Center

Giriraj Swami:

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Today we shall read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Ten, Chapter Thirteen: “Brahmā Stealing the Boys and Calves,” Texts Six to Eight. Because Verse Eight has a purport, we will speak on Verse Eight. And we will just read the Sanskrit for Texts Six and Seven. I will read one line, and you can repeat it, and then we will go to Text Eight. 

TEXT 6

atra bhoktavyam asmābhir
divārūḍhaṁ kṣudhārditāḥ
vatsāḥ samīpe ‘paḥ pītvā
carantu śanakais tṛṇam

TRANSLATION

Lord Krishna says, “I think we should take our lunch here since we are already hungry because the time is very late. Here the calves may drink water and go slowly here and there and eat the grass.”

TEXT 7

tatheti pāyayitvārbhā
vatsān ārudhya śādvale
muktvā śikyāni bubhujuḥ
samaṁ bhagavatā mudā

TRANSLATION

Accepting Lord Krishna’s proposal, the cowherd boys allowed the calves to drink water from the river and then tied them to trees where there was green, tender grass. Then the boys opened their baskets of food and began eating with Krishna in great transcendental pleasure.

TEXT 8

kṛṣṇasya viṣvak puru-rāji-maṇḍalair
abhyānanāḥ phulla-dṛśo vrajārbhakāḥ
sahopaviṣṭā vipine virejuś
chadā yathāmbhoruha-karṇikāyāḥ

TRANSLATION

Like the whorl of a lotus flower surrounded by its petals and leaves, Kṛṣṇa sat in the center, encircled by lines of His friends, who all looked very beautiful. Every one of them was trying to look forward toward Kṛṣṇa, thinking that Kṛṣṇa might look toward him. In this way they all enjoyed their lunch in the forest.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

To a pure devotee, Kṛṣṇa is always visible, as stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā (santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti) and as indicated by Kṛṣṇa Himself in Bhagavad-gītā (sarvataḥ pāṇi-pādaṁ tat sarvato ‘kṣi-śiro-mukham). If by accumulating pious activities (kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ) one is raised to the platform of pure devotional service, Kṛṣṇa is always visible in the core of one’s heart. One who has attained such perfection is all-beautiful in transcendental bliss. The present Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt to keep Kṛṣṇa in the center, for if this is done all activities will automatically become beautiful and blissful. 

COMMENT

Hare Krishna.

So, this is a very beautiful, blissful verse; very appropriate for New Raman Reti, because this is just the type of place where Krishna and Balarama and their friends would sit and walk and enjoy together. Srila Prabhupada said that if, for example, a student is in high school but is doing college-level work, the student can be promoted to college. So, in the same way, if we are in the material world, but engage in the activities of the spiritual world, we can be promoted to the spiritual world. And the program that Srila Prabhupada gave us is the same as the program in the spiritual world, which is basically keeping Krishna in the center and doing everything with Krishna at the center for His pleasure. And therefore, Srila Prabhupada said that the temple is the same as the spiritual world as long as Krishna is the center and all the devotees are engaged in serving Krishna in the effort to please Him, then, it is the spiritual world, Vaikuntha; Vaikuntha means, the place of no anxiety. The other night, we discussed anxiety, how devotees, even on the level of Srila Prabhupada and the gopīs, feel anxiety for Krishna, but not for the body or mind or extensions of our bodies and minds like ordinary people. And therefore, the quality of the anxiety is different. Material anxiety can be debilitating, but spiritual anxiety can be an impetus to further service, which means giving Krishna pleasure. And as a concomitant factor, the devotee also feels pleasure.

At a very young age—well, relatively young age, Srila Prabhupada made me responsible for the Juhu project. And the situation at Juhu was very complicated. Just in the ordinary sense, being Americans in India with no experience in India, and then the heat and the humidity and the mosquitoes and the rats. Now, you might have an image—well, I don’t know what kind of rats you have here, but the Bombay rats are huge. They are literally this big, they are not like the little things that scurry here and there. They are really big. And the rats, and the water we got through the caps and the dysentery and the jaundice and the malaria. So that was just the normal part. What was extraordinary was the demons who conspired against Srila Prabhupada and the devotees to really try to steal Hare Krishna land from him. So it is a long story, but after Srila Prabhupada left Juhu after entering into the agreement to purchase the land, I had a very difficult time, very difficult time. And I was just waiting for Srila Prabhupada to come, because I felt that when he came, he would set everything in order, and I would feel happy again instead of being in deep anxiety. And he came, and he was dealing with things, but I was still in anxiety, and I could not understand why it wasn’t what I had anticipated. And I asked Tamal Krishna Goswami and he gave a very wise answer. I said, “I am doing what Srila Prabhupada wants me to do. I know I am doing what he wants me to do, because he told me to do it, and he knows I am doing it, and he is encouraging me to continue doing it. But I feel so much anxiety, and I thought that when he came, things would change. But I still feel anxiety.” And Tamal Krishna Goswami gave the answer that it is like you are in a house that is on fire, and the only way to get out of the house, to get out of the fire, is to break the window with your hand. And when you break the window with your hand, your hand is going to get cut, and it is going to hurt. But you have to do it to save the body; to save yourself.

So, we are all part and parcel of Krishna, and Srila Prabhupada is Krishna’s representative. And so, Krishna’s the whole, but it may happen that for the sake of the whole, the part, like the hand, may in a superficial sense be hurt or experience some sort of pain. But that is all taken as an austerity for the sake of Krishna. In Kṛṣṇa book, Srila Prabhupada speaks of the preachers, that they take risks. And he said they may even die in the course of their service, but all of these are taken as great austerities for Krishna. But otherwise, the temple is Vaikuntha, the spiritual world, where there is no anxiety. Just like the cowherd boys and other residents of Vrindavan had no anxiety, because they knew that Krishna was there. Whatever happened, Krishna would protect them. When Aghāsura came in the form of a great snake and opened his mouth, he was so huge the top of his mouth was touching the clouds; huge. And he stuck out his tongue, which was like a highway. And the cowherd boys were in their mood of enjoying pastimes with Krishna, so they were prancing and frolicking, and so they went on that highway into that cave. But as they were entering, they started to have a doubt. “Is this really just a big cave, or is it a demon who has come to kill us?” And then, they thought, Well, it doesn’t matter, because even if it is a demon, Krishna is here, and He will save us. So they had no anxiety.

So keeping Krishna at the center is easier when we live in a community of devotees in a temple atmosphere. It is such a tremendous boon to have that facility, to always have the association of devotees available, to always have the temple programs available and the Deities available. It is such a facility. So when we come together in the temple, then naturally, Krishna is the center. But sometimes, we have to struggle to keep Krishna in the center, and that is because we are conditioned to wanting to be the center ourselves. And the whole process of bhakti-yoga, the whole gradual development of Krishna consciousness, is a shifting of our focus from ourselves to Krishna. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, in Śrī Mādhurya-kādambinī, explains this. That conditioned souls are absorbed in that thought of “I” and “mine,” ahaṁ mameti, and they think, “I am this body, and everything related to the body is mine: my husband; my wife; my children; my parents; my house; my car; my job; my insurance; my mortgage; my bills. And because we think it is mine, you are in anxiety. So, as we progress through the different stages, ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga tathā bhajana-kriyā, then gradually, that sense of “I” and “mine” shifts. Instead of “I am this body, and everything related to this body is mine,” it becomes “I am Krishna’s, and Krishna is mine.” And when we have no other possession or sense of possessiveness other than in relation to Krishna, then we have come to the perfect stage of prema-bhakti.

So it is a gradual process, and it takes effort; it takes practice; bhaktyā sañjātayā bhaktyā, bhakti comes from bhakti. There is a line in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, bhakti comes from bhakti. That means that prema-bhakti comes from sādhana-bhakti. And sādhana-bhakti means devotional service in practice. So, we have to practice making Krishna the center and getting out of the consciousness that we are the center. Our godbrother, Bhurijana Prabhu, once commented that most people, even devotees, conceive of life as a movie, and the devotee, the man or woman, is the hero or heroine of the movie. And they see everyone else as the supporting cast; supporting actors and actresses that are meant to facilitate my heroic role. And this consciousness does lead to conflict, because I am trying to play out my movie in which I am the hero, and you are supposed to be supporting me. You are supposed to play your role so that my role as the hero is supported. But you are thinking you are the hero, and I am supposed to play a supporting role to make you glorious and you happy. So, you are dissatisfied with you. “You are not playing your role properly. Don’t you know, I am the hero?” But the reality is that Krishna and Radharani, They are the hero and heroine. And when we all understand that They are the hero and heroine, and we are meant to play supporting roles for Their pleasure, then we have no anxiety, and our relationships with each other become harmonious.

In this beautiful description, we find that Krishna is like the whorl of the lotus flower, and His friends are like the leaves and petals that surround the lotus flower. It is mentioned that He was encircled by lines of friends. In the same way, Srila Prabhupada gave the example of dropping a pebble in a body of water. When you drop a pebble in a pond, the waves will expand like concentric circles. He actually gave this example at one of the first programs of his that I ever attended in Boston at the International Students Association in Cambridge. So, as long as we identify with the body and make each of ourselves the center, so our circle of concern or love will expand from that central point. He gave the example that a baby, if there is some food available for the baby, the baby will just eat it. It won’t think of anyone else. But when the child becomes a little more mature, he or she will think, Oh, I will share this with my mother. I will share this with my father. And as their circle of love expands, “I will share this with my brothers and sisters and my friends.” And then, as they become more mature, they can think of their community, their society, and ultimately, think of their nation. And if their consciousness is even more expanded, think of all of humanity.

But Srila Prabhupada said even that is not perfect, because they are thinking of the human beings, but what about the animals; what about the plants? They are also living entities. So he said, as long as we have different centers, even though our love is expanding, but there is conflict. “My family interest conflicts with your family interest.” “My community’s interest conflicts with your community’s interest.” “My nation’s interest conflicts with your nation’s interest.” So there are all these different centers, and the waves are expanding, but they are overlapping and conflicting with each other. But if there is one center, Krishna, then no matter how many pebbles you drop in that one central point, all the waves will expand harmoniously. There will be no overlapping and conflicting. They will just expand and expand and expand harmoniously. So this is Krishna consciousness. This is keeping Krishna in the center, and all of our other relationships will become harmonious. Now, it is also mentioned here, looking toward Krishna or seeing Krishna. And that is also a question, how do we see Krishna? Well, in the purport, Srila Prabhupada quoted the verse from Brahma-saṁhitā (5.38)

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

When our eyes are smeared with the ointment of love of God, we can always see Krishna within our hearts. But what does it mean for us who are practicing to become devotees? Srila Prabhupada has given different answers, but the basic idea is acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, that Krishna is simultaneously one with and different from His energies. So when a devotee sees Krishna’s energy, He sees Krishna. Srila Prabhupada gave the example that when you go to an art museum, people will be looking at the paintings and some will say, “Oh, there is a Picasso.” They are seeing the painting, but they are not just seeing the painting. They are seeing the artist who made the painting. “Oh, there is a Picasso.” “There is a Rembrandt.” Or he gave the example of parents. If their child is out of the home, and they see the child’s, whatever—toys, or boots, or cap—they don’t just see toys, or boots, or a cap, but they think of their child; “This belongs to my child.” So, they don’t just see the object, but they see their child; they remember their child. So, understanding that everything is Krishna’s energy, either Krishna directly or Krishna’s energy, we can always remember Krishna. And that also, it is a matter of practice. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says, “I am the light of the sun and the moon. I am the taste of water,” so that we think of Krishna.

One friend in Bombay mentioned how, wherever he goes – and he would travel a lot on business – that wherever he goes, he finds the water tastes a little different. He thinks of this as “Krishna, is the taste of the water,” raso’ham apsu kaunteya. But the taste is different. It is like unlimited tastes, just like Krishna is unlimited—unlimited tastes of Krishna. And, Srila Prabhupada said that it can be translated as the taste of water or the taste of liquid things; for any liquid thing. He said, even if a drunkard is drinking alcohol – some alcoholic beverage – and he thinks that the taste is Krishna, he will become purified. He will eventually become a devotee just by thinking. So yes, thinking of Krishna. And of course, we have direct manifestations of Krishna with His Deity form, the holy name, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the holy dhāma—they are all Krishna directly. But even then, we appreciate them according to our ability to appreciate them. We see, and even devotees here are so blessed by these beautiful Deities and the high standard of worship. And they are always talking about the Deities and how beautiful the Deities are. Wherever I go, wherever I visit devotees, they are always talking about the Deities; how beautiful the Deities are and how nice the worship is. So that is the spiritual world. And in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Kapiladeva discusses devotees who come to the temple and see His charming form as the Deity. And He says that they become imperceptibly liberated, because they come, they look at the Deity’s charming form, they are absorbed in thoughts of Krishna, and they are imperceptibly liberated; means they are liberated; being Krishna conscious means you are liberated, and they don’t even notice it. They don’t have to make a separate endeavor. And also, hearing His captivating words. And that means in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Srila Prabhupada comments, therefore, it is the temple and the practice in all the main temples, like all the temples in Vrindavan, that along with the Deity worship is the regular recitation and discussion of scripture. It is like the form of Krishna and the words of Krishna, and in that way, one becomes imperceptibly liberated.

And then there is, of course, a very advanced stage in which one does see Krishna. There are several instances mentioned in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I will mention one here. When Lord Chaitanya was in Jagannatha Puri, He saw the caṭaka parvata, which reminded Him of Govardhana Hill. I mean, we have sandy soil, so that reminds us of Raman Reti. So He saw the caṭaka parvata, which Srila Prabhupada describes as a large sand dune, and it reminded Him of Govardhana Hill. But more than that, He took it that it was Govardhana Hill, and He started to run very swiftly, like the wind, to Govardhana Hill. And at a certain point, He became stunned. He could not move any further and He exhibited various extreme ecstatic symptoms that an ordinary body cannot accommodate. And His associates, fearing for Him in transcendental anxiety, they went running after Him. Because when He entered His mad mood, He could do anything. He could throw Himself in the ocean, so they were very concerned. So, He was running as swiftly as the wind, and they were chasing after Him, but they couldn’t catch up to Him. But then, eventually, they found Him exhibiting these extreme ecstatic symptoms of His limbs being elongated and eruptions on His body. They were really concerned. His body was going through such severe transformations. So, they wanted to bring Him back to external consciousness, and so they began chanting “Haribol, Haribol,” and chanting the holy names. And eventually, He did come to partial external consciousness. And Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami explains that there are three types of consciousness, or three stages of consciousness. One is called antar-dāśā, that means internal consciousness; then the other is bāhya-daśā, that means external consciousness; and then, ardha-bāhya-dāśā, which means partial external consciousness. So, when the devotees made the tumultuous sounds of the holy names, Lord Chaitanya came into ardha-bāhya-dāśā, a partial external consciousness. And He said, “Why did you bring me here? I was at Govardhana Hill, and Radha and Krishna entered into a cave, and some of the gopīs asked me to collect flowers for them. And I was collecting flowers, and now you have made this tumultuous sound, and you brought me here. Where are Radha and Krishna? Where are the gopīs? Where is Govardhana Hill?” And He was feeling intense separation.

Now, in ordinary consciousness, Lord Chaitanya would not have spoken like that. Devotees don’t speak like that. And then, He did come to external consciousness, and He saw Svarūpa Damodara Gosvami and even superiors like Paramānanda Puri, and then He became ashamed for speaking the way He had spoken. So, in the material world, seeing Krishna can be in that way. You get a glimpse, and that is why the mood of separation is so prominent in our line. You get a glimpse, and then, when you lose that, “Oh, where is Krishna? Where is Radharani?” Like the Six Gosvamis, he rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ: He rādhe, O Rādhārāṇī; vraja-devike, Queen of Vrindavan; nanda-sūno, son of Nanda Maharaja. “Krishna, where are You? Are You on the banks of the Yamuna, or are You at Govardhana Hill? Where are You?” And they would wander all over Vrindavan, loudly shouting, looking for Radha and Krishna. So, that is the mood of separation. That is the mood that we want to cultivate. And we can experience it in our own ways here. It happens. You are looking at the Deities. They are so beautiful. You are having such nice thoughts and moods, and then the pūjārī comes to close the curtains. “No, no, no, no! Not now! Not now!” And then, gradually, we feel, “Oh, no, no! I just want to get to see this to the last moment!” And then they are closing. “Oh!” Separation. So we can feel all those things, even now. And as we become more purified, and the feelings become more intensified, then we are eligible to enter the spiritual world of Goloka Vrindavan.

And yes, that is our goal. But it is also our goal, very much our goal, to bring others to Krishna. Srila Prabhupada discussed this point in Los Angeles, that what is the difference between the temple and ordinary houses? The temple is also made of bricks and stone and cement, and an ordinary house is made of bricks and stones and cement. What is the difference? The difference is that in the temple, Krishna is in the center. And he said he would walk down the street, and he would see all those houses, ordinary houses, and he would think that one day they should all have Deities. And as he walks down the street, he will hear the ding-a-ling of the bells and the sounds of kirtan. He said, otherwise, they are not happy. And he said, “Otherwise, why do they have signs on their houses for sale? It means they are not happy. But they think if they move to another place, they will become happy. But right now, they are not happy. So, for sale.” So that is also very much the mood of a devotee, the mood of Radharani, the mood of Krishna and Balarama, and that is compassion to bring others to Krishna, to the spiritual world. So, that is also keeping Krishna in the center of everything. Everything is Krishna’s energy, so it should be used in His service. And especially the living entities, they are Krishna’s energy, and they are meant to be engaged in His service. And if we take up that work on behalf of Krishna and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Nityananda Prabhu, our acharyas, Srila Prabhupada, they are very, very pleased.

So, I will conclude with one little story. So, one of Prabhupada’s early devotees, a prominent devotee, was Bhavananda. And at Bhavananda’s initiation, Srila Prabhupada said, “Your name is Bhavananda. Bhavananda means the bliss of the material world.” There are two words: bhāv, that means ecstasy, and bhāva, it means repetition of birth and death. “You can only preach and bring them to Krishna when you are in the material world.” So, he said, “Bhavananda means the bliss of the material world is the bliss of preaching; the bliss of giving Krishna pleasure. But not just any pleasure, but the greatest pleasure. And by giving Krishna the greatest pleasure, the devotee experiences the greatest pleasure.” So, this is a special opportunity that we have to give Krishna the greatest pleasure. And I was very glad to hear these reports about book distribution and the prison ministry. They are everywhere. You are in the prison. They are all prisoners. Our whole movement is like the prison ministry. That is like the prison within the prison. But the whole movement is the prison ministry. So, yes, we should go out to the prisoners and give them an idea of how they can be happy even in the prison, and ultimately how they can get out. Hare Krishna.

So, are there any questions or comments? Yes.

Devotee: Everyone appreciates the Deities, and Alachua is very, very famous, also, with their Deity worship, and people watch this online. But the description of a neophyte devotee is that they see Krishna in the Deities, and that is the qualification for worshiping Krishna, for being a devotee of Krishna. The madhyama-adhikārī sees Krishna, makes friends with the devotees, avoids the demoniac, and helps the innocent or helps those in a lower position. So, when I joined the movement in the early days under Srila Prabhupada, we seemed to have some kind of etiquette system that if somebody joined the movement a few months before us, they were a senior godbrothers, and we respected them, and devotees would offer formal respect to each other. They still do that after maṅgala-ārati. They do the vāñchā-kalpa-tarubhyaś ca. We would respect the temple authorities and the leaders of the movement and various things. Now, this may just be to my vision, but it seems that there is not so much etiquette these days; not so much understanding how to respect. I am probably one of the most disrespectful devotees, so please forgive me for all my offenses. But how do we re-institute this system? Because, since you are all basically neophytes, without this etiquette it becomes chaotic, and everyone starts fighting and disagreeing with each other. And devotees have various philosophical points of views about things. But if there is a level of respect, we can all cooperate. But if there is no respect, then there is a lot of discord and breaking apart of things. So, can you make any comment on that?

Giriraj Swami: Well, you could say the essence of Vaishnava etiquette is (Cc Antya 7.50),

tṛṇād api sunīcena
taror api sahiṣṇunā
amāninā mānadena
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ        

So, if we have that mood, then we will be following proper etiquette, and there will be no conflict, like you are saying. There may be differences of opinion. Even in the spiritual world, there are differences of opinion on how to please Krishna best. So that is there, and that is allowed, but there should be no disruption in the relations, and there should be no disturbance to the service, but there can be differences of opinion. And someone is ultimately the authority, and we accept whatever the authority decides. Srila Prabhupada gave the example, because that was a question even during Prabhupada’s time, about how do we see the authorities and accept the decisions of the authorities. And he gave the example of that, someone is driving the car, and you are in the car, and you are trying to get to a certain place. And so you tell the authority, which means the driver, “I think we should go this way. It will be a better way to reach the place we want to get.” So you can present your point of view to the authority, but then, ultimately, the authority decides. As Prabhupada said, he is in the driver’s seat, so he ultimately decides. And then the disciple asks, “Well, how do we see the authority’s decision? Do we have to agree with it, or is it an offense if we disagree with that?” And he said no, within yourself, you can still harbor the belief that the way you suggested that he drive the car would have been a better way to reach the goal. But still, as a matter of discipline, he is the driver, so you just go along the way he says. And the goal is the same, but there may be a difference of opinion on the best way to reach the goal.

Devotee: So, what about the general etiquette amongst devotees, because if things are harmonious, then people will be easily attracted towards the movement. But if everything is. . .Of course, there is a lot of impersonalism with the advanced technology; that is also affecting us. But, if we are not in accord with each other, then people won’t be so attracted.

Giriraj Swami: That is true.

[Break in audio 01:28:21–01:29:48]

Giriraj Swami: Saṅkīrtana

Devotee: And preaching.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, because it is true, if you are with devotees all the time, we might take them for granted. But if we go out and spend time with other people and see the way they live and hear the way they speak and find out the way they think, then we can appreciate the association of devotees more. Part of that atmosphere, in the early days, when Srila Prabhupada was here, and there was generally a very nice family spirit, his devotees would be out all day long. Every ounce of their energy and meeting the conditioned souls. And then when they came back at night, it was like coming home. “Oh, we get to be with the devotees again!” It is like coming home after a hard day’s work, and you get to be with your family. Yes.

Parambrahma: My name is Parambrahma. I used to sit, by your mercy, in the life membership office, in Mayapur, during Gaura-purnima, and you told us many stories, every year.

Giriraj Swami: I remember.

Parambrahma: Thank you. You are one of the biggest collectors in the ISKCON. Because I don’t know if you remember Arjun Waney.

Giriraj Swami: I do remember Arjun Waney.

Parambrahma: He owns 10 percent of Sears in America.

Giriraj Swami: Really?

Devotee: Yes, and I talk to him once in a while. And still today, in San Diego – he lives in San Diego – and Badrinarayana Prabhu and nobody could collect, but he always tells me, “I gave Twenty-five Thousand rupees to Giriraj Swami in the ‘70s, because I am attracted by him. As soon as I see him, my check immediately I draw.” Twenty-five Thousand rupees was a lot of money in those days.

Giriraj Swami: It was; it was.

Devotee: You have something in your face, Maharaja, that he always tells me this. You are very attractive. So I had a question, Maharaja. At the end of this chapter, Parīkṣit Maharaja asked, “What an unprecedented fact that all these millions of mothers, that they draw their pleasure not from their own child, but from another’s son, Nanda Maharaja’s son.” So, in reply, Śukadeva Gosvāmīpāda—- You have given a very nice class. In reply, he says that self-centeredness, self-preservation is the first thing: to love self. Then it progressed to the Paramātmā, then to Bhagavān. Now, you are saying that Krishna-centered, we have to give up the self. So you are saying that we have to give up the self, and then Krishna has to be the center. So my question in the beginning, is it really like the self-motivation has to be for the self fulfillment in loving service? I don’t have experience of selfless or self-forgetful of the vrajavāsīs, but there has to be some self-centeredness, no? Maybe misidentification of the self with the body has to be given up, but the self is still the center to serve.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. This conclusion is very relevant to the topic, and it is the same idea that a house—what is the attractive feature of the house? It is the people. In the temple, it is the Deities and the devotees. If the same building was here, minus Krishna and the devotees, no one would come. So the attraction is the person. So, the analysis at the end of this section of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is that the residents of Vrindavan, as you said, loved Krishna more than their own children, which is unusual. And why? So, generally, people love their bodies most, and then they love the expansions of their bodies; their children, because their children, the extensions of their body, give pleasure to their self in the bodily concept of life. But the real attraction is the soul, not the body. It is just an illusion that you are attracted to the body, because the same thing, when the soul leaves the body, you are not attracted. We love our children. We hug them and kiss them and feed them and serve them as long as the soul is there. As soon as the soul is gone, then we dispose of the body. So the real attraction is the soul. And then, why is the soul attractive? Because the soul is part and parcel of Krishna, who is the Supreme Soul, and therefore Krishna is the Supreme Attractive, and He is the Supreme lovable object, more than the body, more than our family members’ bodies, more than secondary expansions, like the house and the car and the bank balance. So that is the conclusion. That okay, we think you are enamored of the bodies, but it is really the soul. As soon as the soul is gone, no interest in the body. And that soul is just a part and parcel of Krishna, so He is the most attractive and the most lovable.

Thank you. Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Maharaja, ki jaya!

Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami: I will be going to Krishna lunch in Gainesville, my first time, and then in the evening, I will. . .