SB 2.4.18 – The Power of Association

Giriraj Swami: Please repeat after me.

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

We read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Two, Chapter Four, Text Eighteen.

TEXT 18

Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā
ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ
ye ‘nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ
śudhyanti tasmai prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ

TRANSLATION

Kirāta, Hūṇa, Āndhra, Pulinda, Pulkaśa, Ābhīra, Śumbha, Yavana, members of the Khasa races and even others addicted to sinful acts can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, due to the Lord’s being the supreme power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Purport by Srila Prabhupada. He describes the different categories of persons mentioned. But for the sake of time, we won’t read the complete description of each category. 

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Pulinda: It is mentioned in the Mahābhārata, the inhabitants of the province of the name Pulinda. This country was conquered by Bhīmasena and Sahadeva. The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of Mahābhārata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bhārata, and the inhabitants were classified amongst the kṣatriya kings. But later on, due to their giving up the brahminical culture, they were mentioned as mlecchas (just as those who are not followers of the Islamic culture are called kafirs and those who are not followers of the Christian culture are called heathens).

Ābhīra: This name also appears in the Mahābhārata. It is mentioned that this province was situated on the River Sarasvatī in Sind. The modern Sind province formerly extended on the other side of the Arabian Sea, and all the inhabitants of that province were known as the Ābhīras. They were under the domination of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, and according to the statements of Mārkaṇḍeya the mlecchas of this part of the world would also rule over Bhārata. Later on this proved to be true, as in the case of the Pulindas. On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India, and on behalf of the Ābhīras, Muhammad Ghori conquered India. These Ābhīras were also formerly kṣatriyas within the brahminical culture, but they gave up the connection. The kṣatriyas who were afraid of Paraśurāma and had hidden themselves in the Caucasian hilly regions later on became known as the Ābhīras, and the place they inhabited was known as Ābhīradeśa.

Yavanas: Yavana was the name of one of the sons of Mahārāja Yayāti who was given the part of the world known as Turkey to rule. Therefore the Turks are Yavanas due to being descendants of Mahārāja Yavana. The Yavanas were therefore kṣatriyas, and later on, by giving up the brahminical culture, they became mleccha-yavanas. Descriptions of the Yavanas are in the Mahābhārata. Another prince, called Turvasu, was also known as Yavana, and his country was conquered by Sahadeva, one of the Pāṇḍavas. The western Yavana joined with Duryodhana in the Battle of Kurukṣetra under the pressure of Karṇa. It was also foretold that these Yavanas would conquer India, and it proved to be true.

The above-mentioned historical names are different nations of the world. Even those who are constantly engaged in sinful acts are all corrigible to the standard of perfect human beings if they take shelter of the devotees of the Lord. Jesus Christ and Muhammad, two powerful devotees of the Lord, have done tremendous service on behalf of the Lord on the surface of the globe. And from the version of Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī it appears that instead of running a godless civilization in the present context of the world situation, if the leadership of world affairs is entrusted to the devotees of the Lord, for which a worldwide organization under the name and style of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness has already been started, then by the grace of the Almighty Lord there can be a thorough change of heart in human beings all over the world because the devotees of the Lord are able authorities to effect such a change by purifying the dust-worn minds of the people in general. The politicians of the world may remain in their respective positions because the pure devotees of the Lord are not interested in political leadership or diplomatic implications. The devotees are interested only in seeing that the people in general are not misguided by political propaganda and in seeing that the valuable life of a human being is not spoiled in following a type of civilization which is ultimately doomed.

According to the cult of devotion, generally known as the Vaiṣṇava cult, there is no bar against anyone’s advancing in the matter of God realization. A Vaiṣṇava is powerful enough to turn into a Vaiṣṇava even the Kirāta, etc., as above mentioned.

COMMENT

I read the descriptions of some of these people who became sinful, and the verse says that even such people, who are addicted to sinful acts, can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, which means following their instructions, and especially, the instruction to chant. That is also mentioned in the purport. Śukadeva Gosvami also recommends yat-kīrtanam. 

Now, what is significant is that many of these people were following the brahminical culture and part of Vedic civilization. But when they gave up following the brahminical culture, they became fallen. So, that means that any of us, whatever birth we have taken amongst the people born in Vedic culture, they can become fallen by giving up the brahmanical culture, and that is a danger. And many people who come from India to the West actually do become fallen by association, and the association is everywhere. It’s in the media, in the newspapers, on television, and the movies, it’s in the schools, it’s in the workplace, it’s in the shopping mall, it’s everywhere. And it’s very hard to withstand the influence of the association because man is a social animal, and he gets influenced by association. And if someone is very enthusiastic to do a particular thing, then their enthusiasm will affect us. And if they’re enthusiastic to engage in sense gratification or engage in sinful activities, that will affect us.

There are two statements in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. One is that the association of those who are associated with the Lord, it means devotees, is more beneficial even than association with the Lord Himself. And there’s another statement that phrases bhagavat sanghi sanghata. There’s another statement that those stree, I mean literally it means woman, but it’s taken as a symbol of sense gratification, that to associate with someone who’s attached to the association of women for sense gratification is more dangerous than associating with women.

So, how is this so? Well, bhagavat sanghi sanghata. You can go to the temple, you can hear the holy name, which is Krishna, you can hear the talks about Krishna, which are Krishna, you can see the Deity of Krishna, which is Krishna. So, you are associating with Krishna. But the association of those who are associated with Krishna is more beneficial, because by associating with them, you can learn about the process of bhakti-yoga and take up the practice. And we see that happening in this group. Someone walks in the door, he’s chanting zero rounds, now he’s chanting sixteen rounds by the association of devotees, bhagavat sanghi sanghata. And the same applies to stree sanghi, that anyone can see a woman and not have any bad thoughts, but if one associates with a man who is attached to women for sense gratification, by that association, he can get bad ideas in relation to women. So therefore, stree sanghi sanghatah, it’s considered more harmful to associate with someone who’s attached to women for sense gratification than to associate with women.

So, association is very powerful. And the general association is sinful. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with the lower modes of nature, with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, it’s bound to affect us. And the only way we can withstand that association and that influence, is to have a strong association with devotees, bhagavat sanghi sanghatah. And therefore, we have the Bhakti-vriksha group, and of course, the temple.

And so, our mission is to develop strong relationships with devotees based on chanting and hearing and serving Krishna and devotees, and to extend our association to others. Just like we have come to this position by association. Some devotees extended themselves to us, and we got a book or we got an invitation, and now we’re here. So, we also have to do the same for others. We have to go out and give association. But to give association, we have to be strong. Otherwise, in the name of giving them our association, we can be influenced by their association. So, we need to stay very much in the association of good devotees and follow the principles of Krishna consciousness, the practices of Krishna consciousness, so that we have spiritual strength.

And I’ve never been a businessman myself, but I knew many businessmen, especially in India, and they would say that if your business isn’t expanding, it will contract. You can’t just stand still. So, we have to keep expanding our Krishna consciousness, expanding our association. Otherwise, we will dwindle and wither. And there are many programs; hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, festivals, distributing books, just inviting people, talking to people about Krishna, that will make us strong and healthy, and that will be a proper balance. If you eat, that’s good, you need to eat. But if you don’t exercise, it’s not complete. And if you exercise and you don’t eat, well, that also won’t work. So, you need to get energy from food, and then use the energy in work.

So, we want to assimilate good association, Krishna consciousness, and then give association, give Krishna consciousness through our association. And of course, the most essential process is chanting japa. Of course, kirtan is very powerful, but the advantage to japa, it’s something anyone can do at any time. And our acharyas, I mean, beginning from Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, have begun with the requirement of a certain minimum number of rounds every day, and all of our acharyas; the Six Gosvamis, Haridasa Thakura, down through the line, they’ve all chanted a certain minimum number of rounds, and that makes a big difference.

When these boys were saying that. . . What did they begin with? Eight or four, and it was hard? They were chanting four, and it was very difficult. And then suddenly, they started chanting sixteen, and it was very easy. And it actually reminded me of something His Holiness Ṛtadhvaja Swami told me, that when he used to chant sixteen rounds, it was a struggle. And then suddenly, he started chanting sixty-four rounds, and it was easy. [laughter] Yeah, exactly the same. He would chant eight rounds, and then someone would come to see him, and he said, “If I spend time with this person, how will I finish my other eight rounds?” But now, not only is he surrendered to chanting sixty-four rounds, but as a rule, he doesn’t refuse service. And the holy name reciprocates. If someone comes who needs help or guidance, as a rule, he won’t refuse because, ‘If I do that, then I won’t have time to finish my rounds,’ but he just does it, and he has faith, and the holy name does help and make the arrangement.

So, when you actually surrender to the holy name and to that practice, the holy name reciprocates. And as we often hear, for one who has the mercy of Lord Chaitanya, difficult things become easy. And for one bereft of the mercy of Lord Chaitanya, easy things become difficult. So, I’m sure we have all had that experience of what it’s like to be helped by God and what it’s like to be on our own, it’s certainly better to be helped by God. And to be helped by God, we have to show our interest. Like our friend said, I asked him why he came, he’s here now for the second time, he said he believes in God and that’s why he’s here. This is all about God. It’s not about anything else, it’s about God and developing our relationship with God. And because the relationship is reciprocal, that means we will experience God’s presence in our lives.

And actually, He’s more interested in us than we are in Him, generally. Like Srila Prabhupada said, “He’s the Supreme Father, and we’re His lost children. So, naturally, He wants us to be happy, which will be possible only when we come back to Him. Otherwise, as long as we’re in the material world without Him, we will suffer in so many ways.” And we are suffering, struggling hard for existence, earning our livelihood, and paying the bills, and all the other things. But when we go back to our Supreme Father who has all wealth, all fame, all power, all beauty, all fame, and even all renunciation, then we have no worries, we have no needs, we have no wants, everything is taken care of.

So yeah, it’s said that the child might forget the parents, but the parents never forget the children. So, Srila Prabhupada said that God is more anxious for us to come back home, back to Godhead than we may know. Most people are not interested in going back to Godhead. So, if one begins that effort, God reciprocates. It’s said if you take one step toward God, He takes two steps towards you. And the way He extends Himself is through the devotees, that’s how He reciprocates.

Recently, one devotee told a story. I don’t remember where it was, but for years, he was living in a neighborhood where devotees would come on hari-nāma regularly, every week. And he paid no attention. And then, at a certain stage, he just felt that he needed to know God. And he was a Christian, and he went to the church. In his own way, he just really prayed to God, “Please, I want to know You. I want to develop my relationship with You. Please help me. Please do something. Please show me the way.” And then, that same day, he saw the hari-nāma party for the first time, and he got an invitation and he came to the temple and became a devotee. So, because he approached God, he wanted to know God and develop his relationship with God, so God reciprocated by bringing him in touch with devotees. So, devotees are very important. So, we must appreciate them, take advantage of their association, serve them, follow their instructions, and become a good association for others. We ourselves become instruments of God’s love and mercy and compassion to bring others to Him.

So, I understand from Sarvajaya Madhava that this group has come to the stage where it’s going to divide into two groups. So, that’s good, it’s like cells dividing and multiplying. And who will be the main facilitator of the new group?

Devotee: We have four or five devotees who are going to get trained together. We’ll have two programs, one on Saturday, just for getting trained to do Bhakti-vriksha. So, one week, one devotee will conduct the Bhakti-vriksha.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, I see.

Devotee: And we will take some rotation of different houses.   

Giriraj Swami: That’s a good idea. So, are any of the five here?

Devotee: Yeah, they came. Manish Prabhu, Tarun Prabhu, Dinesh Prabhu, Pradeep Prabhu [Unintelligible 00:32: 40]

Giriraj Swami: Good. Yes, training is very necessary. But it’s easy, I mean, it’s natural, it just requires some practice, learning some methods and then practice. So, that’s good. And where are those five houses? Are they just all around the area?

Devotee: Manish Prabhu, actually couple of houses he already has reached. Tarun Prabhu too, couple of houses, Manish Prabhu [Unintelligible 00:33:25]

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:33:30].Tarun Prabhu is little bit other side, almost six miles away, and Pradeep Prabhu is pretty close and Dinesh Prabhu.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, he can get new people from there, and that is good. But he has to keep up his association. How far? [laughter]

Devotee: Five miles.

Giriraj Swami: Oh, that’s not so far, good.

Devotee: And here, Maharaja, we have Balarama Prabhu. He is conducting one more Bhakti-vriksha here, and some of the devotees who have come are going to that group also. They are also here, like Naveen Prabhu, Shyam Prabhu, already they have two programs going in this area, is doing one program in university. So many groups we have looking for association [Unintelligible 00:34:38].

Giriraj Swami: So, is Balaram Prasad Prabhu’s program also on Friday?

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: And after these five are trained, will theirs also be on Friday?

Devotee: We are thinking of doing Saturday and Friday, two times.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that’s good.

Devotee: Just to have better options for the devotees.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that’s good, nice. So, are there any questions or comments?

Devotee: I have a question, Maharaja. Thank you, Maharaja, for a nice class. Maharaja, usually, I hear from the exalted devotees, senior devotees, they keep saying that if you do nice chanting, everything else can be taken care of. But for the ordinary devotees like me, how to get that conviction that if we will do nice chanting, everything else can be taken care of? How to get that firm conviction? What is missing there? I just wanted to understand.

Giriraj Swami: Well, ādau śraddhā, the first requirement is faith. And faith develops by association with devotees who have faith, and by hearing their instructions and seeing their examples. That’s the main thing; association and hearing. But it may also be a question, what do you mean by everything will be taken care of? What do you mean by that?

Devotee: [Question summary:] For example, Ṛtadhvaja Maharaja manages to chant sixty-four rounds even though he has other services. Krishna takes care of his responsibilities, yet I haven't acquired such a level of conviction. I feel like I'm missing something or not fully comprehending it.

Giriraj Swami: Well, faith means, as defined in shastra, the firm conviction that just by engaging in devotional service to Krishna, all the results of other practices will be achieved. In other words, you don’t have to engage in other processes like karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, ashtanga-yoga, or any such thing.

This morning, we had quite an elaborate discussion of how we don’t always know what is best for us. So, when you say, “If you chant nicely, everything will be taken care of,” that’s true, but it doesn’t mean that everything will go according to your plan of how things will go. You said, “Everything will fall in line.” What it means is that you will fall in line with God’s plan, not that God makes things fall in line with your plan. If you chant with the idea of getting some material benefit, I mean, yeah, you might get some material benefit, that’s true, but really, one should chant with the motive of becoming purified, so that one can serve Krishna better. Otherwise, to chant with the idea that, “I’m having this personal difficulty, financial difficulty, social difficulty, so if I chant nicely, then those difficulties will be solved,” that could be an offense because the tenth offense is to not have complete faith in the chanting of the holy name, and to maintain material attachments even in spite of hearing so many instructions.

So, if we have faith in Krishna, if we have faith in the holy name, then we’ll realize the only thing that can really make us happy is our relationship with Krishna, not anything of the material world. But that said, our acharyas tell us that until we are transcendentally situated, we should live simply and properly according to varnashrama-dharma, so that our lives will be relatively peaceful, and then that will be a good situation in which to develop Krishna consciousness. 

So, there may be some disturbance in our varna or ashram, and that in turn, although ultimately, there’s no impediment to Krishna consciousness, but still, some disturbance in one’s ashram or varna can be troubling, and that can absorb our attention, which could otherwise be engaged peacefully in Krishna consciousness. But if one sincerely chants, Krishna will help. And if He sees that you need help in your varna or ashram, He will help. He can help from within the heart, He can give you the intelligence how to proceed, He can give you the intelligence to approach some devotees, and then the devotees will help you. So, yes, ideally, we do want to be nicely situated in terms of varna or ashrama; our work life, our family life, but if that’s not the case, and sometimes it’s not, still, we just have to tolerate and go on with our cultivation of Krishna consciousness, which means our cultivation of our relationship with Krishna. Not that our real purpose is to improve our economic condition or our family life. “If the chanting helps with that, then I’ll chant, otherwise not,” that’s not the mentality of a pure devotee or aspiring devotee. Hare Krishna. Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: Maharaja, I have a question.

Giriraj Swami: Yes?

Devotee: The point is the association with a devotee who chants for twenty-four hours and works for eight hours, and mixed moods are going on. How does this relate to the statement you. . .

Giriraj Swami: Well, that’s a very good question. Actually, Ambarīṣa dasa, Alfred Ford, who was the great grandson of Henry Ford, once came to Juhu with Srila Prabhupada, and he was serving like a very menial servant, dressed as a brahmachari and just serving as a humble devotee. But after a couple of weeks, he was to leave, and he came before Srila Prabhupada to discuss his life’s plan. And I happened to be in the room at the time. And at that time, almost all the devotees lived in temples, very few devotees worked, most of them were engaged fully in the saṅkīrtana movement and they were taken care of by Krishna or by the temples.

So, Srila Prabhupada told Ambarīṣa dasa that he should go back and work, because he wanted people to see that someone can be a devotee, and at the same time, be a responsible member of society. Now, of course, he was a very famous person. So, if he joined full-time as a brahmachari, more people would notice than if someone leaves IIT and becomes a brahmachari. So then, Ambarīṣa said, “Do I have to work for the Ford Motor company?” He said, “No, you don’t necessarily have to work for the Ford Motor company, but some work.” And then, he said, “But then, what about my association? What will I do for association?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “While you’re working, if you’re thinking, I’m doing this for Krishna, that will be your association.”

But to do that, it’s actually simple, but you actually have to be sincere in it. If you’re really working for Krishna, to get money to maintain your life in Krishna consciousness and continue to contribute to the Krishna consciousness movement, that’s your association. But if you’re really thinking, I’ll make this much money and then I can have this material facility and that sense gratification and please this mundane person and that mundane person, then you won’t really be able to think, I’m doing this for Krishna, because there would be some duplicity. But Prabhupada said that Bhaktivinoda Thakura advises that this injunction about association, he said, in the workplace, if you have some ordinary interactions with people in the workplace, that doesn’t violate the principle of asat saṅga. But I’ve heard from devotees that it is a hardship, because the level of consciousness, even the type of language that the people use, is very low. It is a hardship.

So, I guess the idea is you do the minimum, what you need to do to be able to function in the workplace, but not more. And it’s good if people know a little about you, so they’ll know you’re not the right person to engage in certain topics. And you’re Indian, you’re Hindu. It won’t be strange if you say you don’t do this or you don’t do that. And then I guess it depends on how much you want to discuss with people.

There was a big businessman in Mumbai named Srinathji dasa, Dr. N.D Desai. And on his level, he would have to go to dinners with very big people, international business figures. But he was on a very high level. So, at first, they’d have these fancy banquets in big hotels, so they’d bring around drinks. And he was saying, “I don’t indulge.” “Why not? What’s the matter?” And then, same with meat, fish, or eggs, “What’s the matter with you?” They didn’t like it because they didn’t want their sense gratification to be challenged.

So then, he developed a different approach. He would get the type of glass that they use for champagne, and he’d put 7 Up in it with an ice cube and maybe a thing that sticks out that you stir it with. It looked just like he was drinking champagne, but it was 7 Up, so they didn’t bother him about that. And as far as the food, he would phone ahead or write them and say he’s allergic, and then he named meat, fish, eggs, onions, garlic, and their whole mood was completely different, “Oh! I’m so sorry to hear that. Well, what can you eat? Can we make something special for you?” They took pity on him. And so, they just went out of their way to prepare whatever they could so he wouldn’t have to be deprived or feel deprived. So, it depends on the situation. It’s a good way to open up a discussion, if you want. But if you feel they’re not the right people to discuss with, then just say something that will allow you to keep your principles without getting into too much controversy.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:53:41]

Giriraj Swami: Well, it’s good if they follow the four principles and chant. But that’s true. That’s another thing I’ve seen, that some devotees use clickers to keep track of their rounds instead of japa-mālā. Now, I could see under some circumstances, but as much as possible, we should chant on japa-mālā, because that’s tulasi beads, that’s also association. I mean, it’s a very important part of chanting, a very important part of chanting. And Srila Prabhupada, when he was asked about the beads, he said, “It engages the sense of touch.” And he said, “When two senses are fully engaged, then the mind is captured.” So, if the sense of touch and the sense of hearing are fully engaged, then the mind will be fixed.

And, well, Mahaprabhu dasa in Bombay began it, but I just saw someone here in Dallas doing the same thing. Because I guess, one reason to use the clickers is you don’t want people to see your bead bag. So, he made a japa-mālā with twenty-seven beads, one quarter of a full mālā, so it’s very small. So, four of those little mālās equals one round of 108. So, yeah, tulasi, and then the tulasi plant. I mean, chanting in front of Tulasi-devi is very powerful. For chanting rounds, good association can help, and Tulasi-devi, or family members, getting together with family members or friends, it all enhances the experience. Yes?

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja, for the wonderful class, and especially the example you gave on how to handle some tough situations. I would like to ask one question. What should be the mood of a preacher? From Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s standpoint, how should a preacher see when he’s approaching somebody? What should be his mood?

Giriraj Swami: Well, we should see them as spirit souls, part and parcel of Krishna, lost children of Krishna. And I always pray a lot. I mean, from the beginning, even when I was distributing books, I’d always pray. Of course, the main thing is to have them take the book in their hand, I mean, this is on the street, and look through it. And while they were doing that, I would be praying, “Krishna in the heart, please inspire them to do some service.” And the same thing even if I met some big crorepati in India and I was asking him to become a life member, to contribute, same thing, I would be praying to Krishna in his heart to enlighten him and inspire him to do some service. Because it all depends on Krishna, we’re not the doers.

And then, the other thing is to always try to leave the person with a good impression, even if he doesn’t cooperate. There was one man in Bombay, a very wealthy man, who had many industries. And he was a type of person who would allow me to meet him, not everyone would do that so easily, he’d always allow me to meet him and then he would argue with me. And after about three or four times, I made some proposal for the Juhu project, and he agreed to give a very sizable donation. And he said that whenever I would come to him, he would always test me by being mean. But he said I never became angry, I never lost my composure, I always remained cheerful, I always remained smiling. And he said because of that, he concluded I was genuine.

But actually, I should just say, his first proposal, I felt was not proper. Now I remember. The first proposal was that he would subsidize the printing of Back to Godhead in India, but he wanted his name, a little note in the magazine, ‘courtesy of so-and-so.’ And I knew the cost of it all, and I felt that what he was offering was not enough, it wasn’t fair. He wanted more than he deserved for the amount he was offering. So, I said, “I appreciate the idea, but to print this many copies, it’s going to cost so much, and you’re only contributing so much and you want it to say ‘courtesy of so and so?’ You’ll have to give more.” And I went back and I told Srila Prabhupada, and he said, “Very good.” [laughter] 

But then later, when we were collecting for Juhu, I showed him, “So much for this, so much for that.” So, he took the hall, that was quite a big part, and he offered not the full amount. I thought they should offer the full amount, but he said, “No, it doesn’t work like that. Generally, if you give half, then you can get your name.” So, I did some research, and it’s true. Generally, if they give half, that’s enough to get the name. So, we made that deal. 

So, yeah, sometimes people test us, “You’re supposed to be a saintly person. Well, let’s see how saintly you really are.” Or even if they’re not deliberately testing, but if we leave them with a good impression, you never know, you might meet them again, and then the next time, they’ll remember, and they may come forward. Hare Krishna. Any other questions or comments?

So, we should be experts. One of the qualities of a devotee is expert. Srila Prabhupada said that. . . Of course, this might not come up, but it might. Generally, he quoted this maxim that if someone is very honest and straightforward with you, you should be most honest and straightforward with them. And if someone is very cunning with you, you should be even more cunning than they are. And another time, he said that we should deal so expertly that after some businessman or someone deals with us, they go and tell their friends, “These Hare Krishnas are very intelligent. They may look like fools, but they’re very intelligent. So, don’t mess with them.” [laughter] So, we don’t exclude anything, it’s just the consciousness. We don’t exclude violence, the whole Bhagavad-gītā. . . But it was for Krishna. We don’t exclude business, but it’s for Krishna. We don’t exclude anything, but it’s for Krishna. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: So, what’s next?

Devotee: Can I announce about the books?

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: And if you don’t mind, I want to ask a small question on this. Watering the Seed. So, the whole book is about how we have to protect this creeper till it reaches Krishna. So, can you please tell us a little bit about that? So that others will get inspired.

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Well, he’s referring to the title of a book that I wrote called Watering the Seed, and the title comes from a metaphor that Lord Chaitanya used when He was instructing Rupa Gosvami. And basically, the idea is guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja, that after wandering through so many species of life and so many planetary systems, by the mercy of guru and Krishna, one gets the seed of bhakti. And then, one should become a mālī and plant that seed in his heart, and water it by chanting and hearing about Krishna.

And one should be alert for weeds that might grow up alongside the creeper. The weeds are material desires, many varieties. And in this example, in that context, one should be aware of hātī-mātā, the mad elephant. Because if a mad elephant comes into your garden, he can cause havoc, he can uproot all the plants and break all the plants that you’ve worked so hard to cultivate for a long time. He can destroy it all in no time. So, that hātī-mātā, or mad elephant, is vaiṣṇava-aparādha, that’s offending devotees. And to protect the creeper from vaiṣṇava-aparādha, one should put a fence around it. And the fence is the circle of pure devotees. If we stay in the circle of pure devotees, then there will be no chance for that offense. Because usually, that offense takes place when one becomes materially inclined. And that comes from, as we’ve been discussing, from materialistic association, or even mixed devotees if the mixture is too materialistic. So, pure devotees. We stay in the association of pure devotees, and that mad elephant cannot enter. Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Books are here on the table, written by Maharaj. The book's title is 'Many Moons.' It is all about pure devotees, all exalted devotees. By reading these books, we get association with pure devotees.

Giriraj Swami: That’s true.