SB 10.13.60 – Giriraj Swami and Giridhari Swami—Freedom from Envy—The Vaikuntha Mood

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. We shall read one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Ten, Chapter Thirteen: “Brahma Stealing the Boys and Calves.”

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

TEXT 60

yatra naisarga-durvairāḥ

sahāsan nṛ-mṛgādayaḥ

mitrāṇīvājitāvāsa-

druta-ruṭ-tarṣakādikam

TRANSLATION

Vṛndāvana is the transcendental abode of the Lord, where there is no hunger, anger or thirst. Though naturally inimical, both human beings and fierce animals live there together in transcendental friendship.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The word vana means “forest.” We are afraid of the forest and do not wish to go there, but in Vṛndāvana the forest animals are as good as demigods, for they have no envy. Even in this material world, in the forest the animals live together, and when they go to drink water they do not attack anyone. Envy develops because of sense gratification, but in Vṛndāvana there is no sense gratification, for the only aim is Kṛṣṇa’s satisfaction. Even in this material world, the animals in Vṛndāvana are not envious of the sādhus who live there. The sādhus keep cows and supply milk to the tigers, saying, “Come here and take a little milk.” Thus envy and malice are unknown in Vṛndāvana. That is the difference between Vṛndāvana and the ordinary world. We are horrified to hear the name of vana, the forest, but in Vṛndāvana there is no such horror. Everyone there is happy by pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Whether a gosvāmī or a tiger or other ferocious animal, everyone’s business is the same — to please Kṛṣṇa. Even the tigers are also devotees. This is the specific qualification of Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana everyone is happy. The calf is happy, the cat is happy, the dog is happy, the man is happy — everyone. Everyone wants to serve Kṛṣṇa in a different capacity, and thus there is no envy. One may sometimes think that the monkeys in Vṛndāvana are envious, because they cause mischief and steal food, but in Vṛndāvana we find that the monkeys are allowed to take butter, which Kṛṣṇa Himself distributes. Kṛṣṇa personally demonstrates that everyone has the right to live. This is Vṛndāvana life. Why should I live and you die? No. That is material life. The inhabitants of Vṛndāvana think, “Whatever is given by Kṛṣṇa, let us divide it as prasāda and eat.” This mentality cannot appear all of a sudden, but it will gradually develop with Kṛṣṇa consciousness; by sādhana, one can come to this platform.

In the material world one may collect funds all over the world in order to distribute food freely, yet those to whom the food is given may not even feel appreciative. The value of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however, will gradually be very much appreciated. For instance, in an article about the temple of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in Durban, South Africa, the Durban Post reported, “All the devotees here are very active in the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and the results are obvious to see: happiness, good health, peace of mind, and the development of all good qualities.” This is the nature of Vṛndāvana. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, happiness is impossible; one may struggle, but one cannot have happiness. We are therefore trying to give human society the opportunity for a life of happiness, good health, peace of mind and all good qualities through God consciousness.

COMMENT

When we hear the description of Vrindavan, we are attracted and want to go there, not necessarily physically, but at least spiritually, because we want to be happy, we want to live in transcendental friendship with other devotees, we want to be free from envy within ourselves and in other people around us. So that is a beautiful place to be and it is quite different from the material world. In the spiritual world one wants to serve Krishna and one appreciates the service of other devotees and wants to encourage them in their service, and there is no envy, but in the material world there is envy. As soon as we see someone coming up we want to bring them down.

I shouldn’t tell an ethnic joke in such an esteemed gathering on such a sacred occasion and I won’t give any specifics, but I used to spend time in a particular place where envy was prominent, and I happened to make friends with the Indian High Commissioner and he said that that quality of envy was known to be part of the character of the people or exception of the people. He told a joke that there was a competition, people were selling frogs, and one person, his rate was much lower than anyone else’s, so someone asked him, 

“How can you afford to sell the frogs for so much less than the competition?” And he said, “I save money on the packaging. I don’t need to put a cover on the container because these are such-and-such frogs. . .” I am not filling in the designation. “. . . and as soon as one tries to jump up, all the others pull him down.” [laughter]

Yes, we are in the material world out of envy, and ultimately the envy is of Krishna. We want to take the place of Krishna, we want to be the supreme, we want to be the enjoyer, the proprietor, the controller. We don’t want to sing Krishna’s glories; we want people to sing our glories. And that envy extends to every aspect of Krishna’s creation which is actually under Krishna’s control. 

There is an incident described in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Sanatana Gosvami were highly placed government servants under the Nawab Hussain Shah. Srila Prabhupada explains that Sanatana Gosvami was like the prime minister and Rupa Gosvami was like the finance minister. But they met Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and they became very attracted to His transcendental qualities and wanted to join Him, join the saṅkīrtana movement. Rupa Gosvami was able to escape but Sanatana Gosvami, he was very intelligent politically and he did not try to escape directly, but he took sick leave and he stayed at home and he invited Vaishnavas and they spent the day discussing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. 

So the Nawab was very concerned because he was relying heavily on Sanatana Gosvami so he sent the royal physician and he could not ascertain exactly what the illness was that he reported to the Nawab. Nawab is like a governor or almost like a king. Days were passing, weeks were passing and finally the Nawab could not tolerate the absence of Sanatana Gosvami so he went personally. And when he came to the door Srila Sanatana Gosvami offered him respectful obeisance. Now this is a very subtle point because the Nawab was a meat-eater, a drunkard, and a tyrant, but Sanatana Gosvami offered him respectful obeisance. Srila Prabhupada explains in the purport, he quotes from the Tenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā. . . does anyone know what the name of the Tenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā is? Yes, vibhūti-yoga, “The Opulence of the Absolute Truth.” There Krishna explains how His opulences manifest in different forms in the material world. So Sanatana Gosvami saw that the Nawab was a manifestation of Krishna’s opulence, he was the king, and he also understood that he was placed in that position by Krishna, and even though he was a meat-eater and a tyrant and a sinful person in so many ways, Sanatana Gosvami offered him respect because he was put in that position by Krishna. In other words, he wasn’t envious. And that is the secret to advancement in Krishna consciousness to be free from envy.

One of my godbrothers once gave a very wonderful example that if someone is in a higher position than you, say he is above you, and you grab his feet and try to pull him down, what happens? You go down. But on the other hand, if you take his feet and try to push him up, you go up. So, envy is harmful to everyone. It is very harmful to those of whom we are envious and to ourselves. To the contrary, the mood of service of pushing others or pushing others forward in Krishna’s service is very beneficial to all concerned and that is the Vrindavan mood. Everyone is thinking the others are doing better service to Krishna. The gopīs are thinking, “O, Krishna likes Radha the best so we should push Radha to Krishna,” and Radha thinks, “All the other gopīs, they are much better servants of Krishna than I am.” And She wants to push them forward. 

In that pure selfless mood everyone is happy. In the material world you are always worried, “Someone is going to stab me in the back,” but in the spiritual world if someone is at your back, they are going to push you forward to Krishna. 

So that a big difference. It is a matter of consciousness. We can have that consciousness wherever we are. Of course going to Vrindavan is a facility for developing Krishna consciousness, but it is not automatic that if you go to Vrindavan you will develop pure devotional service. It depends on your mood.

The Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu which Srila Prabhupada translated as The Nectar of Devotion mentions that five processes are especially powerful and they are so powerful that even by a slight association with any one of them one can develop ecstatic love for Krishna. So I was just studying and I was a little proud of my mastery of Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. I was in Mauritius and His Holiness Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja came to visit. He gave a class on the farm and afterwards we were walking together, we were going to drive back to the temple in the city, and I was talking about these five items. One of them is Mathura-vasa, living in Mathura or Vrindavan. So I was saying how I was trying to cultivate these five and when I mentioned that, he looked at me and he said, “Kamsa also lived in Mathura.” [laughter] It is not automatic. The temple is supposed to be Vaikuntha but it is not automatic. We have to have the Vaikuntha mood.

Srila Prabhupada described the Vaikuntha mood that. . . of course he described it in many ways on different occasions, but when I first came to the Boston temple, the devotees gave one explanation that. . . first he said that the whole temple is affected by each devotee’s spiritual position. He said if one devotee is doing well, it helps the whole temple, and if one devotee is having difficulty, it also affects the whole temple. And he said that if a devotee is having difficulty and you think, “Oh, that devotee is in maya, I don’t want to have any. . .” In maya means we could. . . as a broad term we could fill in our own adjectives, “Oh, that devotee is in maya, I don’t want to have anything to do with that devotee.” So Srila Prabhupada said that is the mundane attitude. And if you think, “Oh, that devotee is having difficulty, let me help that devotee,” that is the Vaikuntha attitude.

As Srila Prabhupada says, this consciousness does not develop right away, but it develops gradually by sadhana, and this is a very important point. Of course part of our sadhana is hearing, like we are gathering, we are reading, we are hearing, we are discussing. That is part of our sadhana that that in and of itself cleanses the heart. Sadhana means chanting the holy names. Coming back to those five, there is nāma-saṅkīrtana: chanting the holy names, bhāgavata-śravaṇa: hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sādhu-saṅga: associating with more advanced devotees, śrī-mūrtira śraddhāya sevana: serving the Deity with faith and veneration, and Mathura-vasa: living in Vrindavan or a holy place and that includes any place where the Deity of Vishnu or Krishna is installed. Rupa Gosvami says even by a slight association with any of those processes, one develops ecstatic love for Krishna. 

But we do those every day, we hope, but are we experiencing the ecstatic love for Krishna? So even in the next verse, not even the next verse, but there is a condition you could say and the condition is that one should be offenseless. These processes are so extremely powerful, but one experiences the result when one is offenseless otherwise it can take a long time.

So we have to be careful. Last night I just touched on one—to maintain material attachments even after understanding so many instructions in the matter. Not to have complete faith in the holy name. But tonight, considering this verse, and just what scripture says about it, vaiṣṇava-aparādha is a very grievous offense that we should avoid like anything. I have seen in devotees who are advanced in chanting that they are very, very careful to avoid vaiṣṇava-aparādha. We are in a preaching mission and sometimes we have to consider what’s best for the sake of the mission and so we might have to consider who is appropriate for what service or how the person can improve the service. That is also part of our service to Srila Prabhupada and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, but it should be done without offense. And there is a huge difference between discussing how to improve things in an offenseless mood and when there are other things mixed in like enviousness. And of course Krishna helps, Srila Prabhupada helps if we are sincere, because we cannot become free from these things by our own strength. But we have to have that desire and associate with people who are offenseless, who are free from envy and personal ambition and so on.

I am not sitting here because I think that I am free from these anomalies. To the contrary I thought I am totally submerged in these and I wanted to do something to purify my heart, so I thought if I speak on this topic it will help me. And I feel it is helping a little.

So yes, Vrindavan. . . I can say that there is a cat in the temple and it seems that the devotees are sharing prasāda with the cat and the cat is living peacefully and happily. So from there we just have to expand that mood. . . it is there. It is very prominent here but we can always do better. Hare Krishna.

Are there any questions or comments?

Devotee: I am a most jealous person in my business in competition. How can I get the frog in my form [unclear]?

Giriraj Swami: Do we have someone here in business who can answer? That was a joke right? [laughter]

Devotee: Maharaja, how can we strengthen ourselves because that is an emotion, but I catch myself from being envious from time to time?

Giriraj Swami: As Srila Prabhupada says in the purport, envy develops from sense gratification. It is such a thing that it develops in us because of sense gratification. It is also in the Ninth Canto, very nice description how to overcome different obstacles, and it is mentioned there as well that the way to overcome envy is to give up sense gratification, and that helps you give up envy. And when people see that you have given up sense gratification it is easier for them to give up their envy of you.

Now it doesn’t mean that you have to leave your beautiful home and live in a hut on the banks of Radha-kunda just yet, but it means that you should not have pride in your opulence and you should genuinely see it as Krishna’s property meant for use in Krishna’s service, which means inviting people, having saṅkīrtana, serving devotees. It just making your personal life more dedicated to Krishna.

Deva Darsana dasa: The fact that somebody else is successful, making a million dollars doesn’t create envy in people’s heart. But when if it someone very dear to us, whether it is our relative, very close friends whom we really love, when good fortunate happens to them or something good happens to them, then the envy happens.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is true.

Deva Darsana dasa: Why is that?

Giriraj Swami: Envy can be more prominent towards people in a similar category. If they are in the same family, in the same social circle, the same line of work, like His Holiness Radhanath Swami for example said, “I am not a cook. So if someone cooks a fantastic meal, it doesn’t bother me. I am not a cook. But if someone else is a good cook and someone else cooks a fantastic then envy comes. I am a speaker. If someone else gives a brilliant talk then I can get envious but not if someone cooks a great meal.” So when it comes to something very close to us, the envy can be inflamed much more severely and we have to be careful of that, we have to control it, we have to try to control it and realize that it is going to be harmful to us and harmful to our relationships and harmful to Krishna’s service.

Nityananda dasa: I see in Dallas that the devotees are very sweet, really very nice devotees, sincere, really pushing forward their Krishna consciousness. But still we see that there are different, even though they are very sweet and it is hard to fault them, but it seems like by something almost external, the devotees. . . there is no intention there, but it seems the atmosphere, the material atmosphere somehow creeps in and causes these differences amongst the devotees. Should we see it that that is just how it is going to be in Kali-yuga and not get overworked up about it or is there something that we should do about it? I am concerned whether we might disturb the atmosphere when we try to something that is probably not so fixable.

Giriraj Swami: I think only someone who is intelligent enough to ask that question is intelligent enough to answer it. Why don’t you give us your perspective then we can. . .

Nityananda dasa: My perspective is that I need to take care of my own faults and not so much focus what other people do. Just look at my own, myself. But I am the temple president and people say to me, “But you are responsible. You are the temple president. Why don’t you fix that?” But I think to myself, “He is doing so much service, so yes, there may be some issue that he is trying to deal with himself, why should I bear down on him and discourage him.” Just like we say when someone is in the shower, we shouldn’t complain that they are dirty because they are in the shower for that purpose of cleansing. But then I wonder whether I am being lazy as the administrator or as the person responsible and so dodging the whole thing because I know if I try to deal with it then I have to get my hands dirty also. That is the concern I have.

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada has given some relative instructions. The first is that if criticism is offered with sympathy, it is more likely to be accepted. So that is the first point. Another point is that if we treat someone nicely we will come to like them better. We would usually be thinking, “Oh, if someone treats me better, I will like them more,” but it is been established experimentally that if you treat someone else nicely you will like them more. I learned this. There was a psychology experiment performed in a high school and each student was told to select the person who they disliked the most and then for one month they were supposed to treat the person they disliked the most very nicely. And at the end of the month they all liked the people that they disliked the most in the beginning. It is all in our philosophy. I am just mentioning these things because empiric evidence does support it, but just be the servant of the servant of the servant.

Once Srila Prabhupada was asked, “What do we do when there is conflict among the devotees?” and Prabhupada said that, “If each devotee thinks, ‘I am the servant of the servant of the servant,’ then there will be no difficulty.” But it has to be genuine. And that is why Prabhupada asked us to address each other as Prabhu. Prabhu means “Lord,” “Master.” So that means if I am addressing you as Prabhu it means you are my master, I am your servant. He said not, “Hey Prabhu, can you bring me my shoes.” He said not like that.

Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: [inaudible]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, the same offenses apply. In Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Rupa Gosvami mentions the sixty-fours items of devotional service and so there is kirtan—śravaṇam kīrtanam—but within kīrtanam there are divisions. There is nāma-kīrtana, guna-kirtana: hearing the glories or chanting the glories, līlā-kīrtana: chanting the pastimes. So they are all different varieties. Nāmāparādha. Nama can be extended to include the others. If you have those same offenses it will affect your ability to do the other chanting and hearing of the glories of the Lord.

I might had speculated just there but I think it is true. 

Last night we heard about the importance of preaching, and preaching is direct service to Gaura-Nitai. It is all service to Gaura-Nitai, but especially preaching is in the mood of Gaura-Nitai and Gaura-Nitai are liberal or lenient when it comes to offenses. So this is another clue as to how to become free from offenses and that is by serving Gaura-Nitai by hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and book distribution and just going out and meeting people and telling them about Krishna and bringing them to Krishna. That is also very purifying and that is another way to get some special mercy. That is also, like I mentioned about serious chanters being very reluctant, not just reluctant but careful not to commit offense against any Vaishnava, but the devotees who are really absorbed in saṅkīrtana, they are the same way. They appreciate the value of devotees because they meet so many people who aren’t devotees yet and they see how rare it is. Like we are just with devotees all the time, we take them for granted and we start to see the material differences. So that is also very important to go out, distribute books, approach people.

Suracarya dasi: You were speaking about controlling our envy and [?] we in [?] devotional service the opportunities that some people were raised in families that were very [stable?] and they have a lot of [?] where as other people who were raised in broken homes [?]. Is it necessary to see that people who have that foundation, [?] stronger ability to see their own faults and rectify them whereas people who were raised in [broken homes. . .]?

Giriraj Swami: Everything really depends on the individual. This is a very big topic because having a materially pious birth can be advantageous but it can also be disadvantageous. It is very individual but whatever you have gotten as your lot in this life you should, as Prabhupada says, make the best use of a bad bargain. The material body is a bad bargain. Just make the best use of a bad bargain and do it all for Krishna. 

Tamal Krishna Goswami quoted a nice story about the servant of a king who every day would carry two water pots—he mentioned it in one of his Vyasa-puja offerings—he would carry two water pots to the king and one of the water pots had a crack in it and the water would seep out through the crack and by the time the servant got to the king there was almost no water left in that pot. And that pot was lamenting because it was damaged goods. And then the servant told the pot that, “Just look at the path the next time we travel.” And it turned out that because of the water leaking out of the crack in the pot flowers were growing up on the side of the path. So the idea is it may be a crack, it may be a defect from a certain point of view, but even that defect can be favorable for Krishna’s service. So, whatever we are its fine. We don’t have to be anything different or anyone different. We just have to give everything to Krishna.

Giridhari Swami: Perfect and complete. Just a few thoughts. So the verse about Vrindavan, the need to go to Vrindavan, as Maharaja said, not necessarily physically but spiritually, I found that interesting because the great phenomenon is we are originally with Krishna in Goloka and due to this quality of envy we made this really bad career choice to come to the material world and then because of that root cause of envy then these other things come. Icchā-dveṣa. There is desire and there is hate and it is all revolving around this, a root cause (envy). We desire things and we reject things and that is how material life is—hankering, lamenting—and it goes on and on over a course of a whole lifetime. And that is why the material world is called a very hellish existence because you are being pulled back and forth and back and forth.

But this verse also speaks about an opportunity to remove that envy through the process of sadhana. But there are different paths to perfection. We say that there is sadhana-siddhi that one becomes perfect through the process of sadhana and then we also hear about kṛpā-siddhi through some mercy from Krishna directly or from one of Krishna’s great devotees. 

Now we in ISKCON we are practicing sadhana, at least we are trying to, and to the best of our ability, but if we just rely on sadhana alone, at least to my way of thinking, it may take a very, very, very long time. So it is not really just by sadhana alone. We need kṛpā, we need mercy, and really without the mercy the sadhana is not complete and it wouldn’t really bring you to perfection. You need kṛpā. But the practice of sadhana, the effort that we are showing Krishna that we are sincere, we want to try to do what He has instructed, at least we are making the effort, we are trying to muster up as much sincerity as we can within the heart, trying our best, and so that invites Krishna’s mercy. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante: you take a step towards Krishna and He takes many steps towards you, as Srila Prabhupada said.

So it invites kṛpā but there are some other ways in which you can invite kṛpā perhaps in a more profound way and that is the reason that Prabhupada engaged us in so many types of preaching activities. You have heard the stories over and over again, Prabhupada gives the instruction to hit a particular goal with book distribution and devotees actually make the goal and then Prabhupada says, “Very good. Now double it.” And they reach that goal and Prabhupada says, “Yes, very good.” Again he says, “Double it.” So he never ever said, “You are doing just great. You have done everything that I have ever expected and I am so happy. Now you can just sit back and you can relax.” But he always said, “You have to go forward.” He was always pushing and pushing and particularly through preaching activities because he knew that by trying to give Krishna consciousness to others it is the best way to invite Krishna’s mercy. You have pleased Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda Prabhu and you get special mercy.

And so these two things, they work together, the practice of our vaidhi-sadhana and also preaching work. We get inspired by doing good sadhana to preach and but then when we preach we get further inspiration to do good sadhana. So the two things work together: our sadhana fuels preaching and preaching fuels sadhana. So really you need both things to come to the point of really advancing in Krishna consciousness. And that was really Prabhupada’s formula. Of course numerous times he said we shouldn’t prematurely retire to Vrindavan. We have the bhajanānandī, we have the goṣṭhyānandī, so he was really pushing preaching and that is the example he gave right to the last moment. That is what he was doing is preaching, dictating purports from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Tenth Canto. Even this is one of the last chapters that he dictated, lying horizontal on a bed in Vrindavan. His body was total emaciated, skin and bones—people were amazed—and he was so clear in consciousness that he was dictating these purports and they are some of the most lucid purports of the whole Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam—so deep. So this is the example he set. You invite the mercy of Krishna through trying to give Krishna consciousness to others. 

A couple stories come mind; it was actually from a talk given by Indradyumna Swami at Carpinteria. He tells a story, this was perhaps in the mid-seventies or something like this, and it was a Christmas marathon, book distribution, in Paris, and the devotees used to go to the trains. When the train would come into the station, devotees would quickly board and they would try to approach people and distribute as many books as possible just in those few minutes before the train set off for the next destination and got off. He describes that there was one young enthusiastic book distributor, a young Mataji, and she was probably quite small, short in stature, so she was distributing in the train and she approached one gentleman and they were distributing Kṛṣṇa book. So she distributed a Kṛṣṇa book to him. He took it, he looked at her—he was a very big strong man—so he took the Kṛṣṇa book and he was so strong he practically tore it in half. Then he threw it on the ground and he started stomping on it, jumping up and down. Talking about envy. Not only that, he then grabbed the girl by the hair, dragged her out of the train, onto the platform, and just threw her down. Fortunately it wasn’t fatal or serious, critical injuries, but she was bruised.

So this person, he takes the Kṛṣṇa book and as it turns out he was quite a fluent banker in Spain, so he took the train back to Madrid, somewhere in Spain, and he was so proud of what he had done—this is the materialistic ego. As Maharaja was saying, put the other person down so you feel your false ego is so inflated. The person is lower so I become higher. So he took the Kṛṣṇa book, put it on the kitchen table for his wife and children to see, and he was boasting, “I did this,” making a big joke out if it. 

So then he went to work, the wife was doing whatever, she was away, and the book was lying there, the maid saw the book, thought it was one of the books of the family, so she dusted it off and repaired it as best she could, and put it on the bookshelf.

So a year goes by and as fate would have it, the man’s wife is killed in a head-on car accident. The two children, the boy runs away from home, the daughter marries some low class person, and so then he is left with nothing. And so he is very despondent, very depressed, and he is just in this condition. He starts to contemplate suicide. In this mood he is reaching out, looking for some shelter—anything. So he starts going through his books and he is looking for a bible apparently but somehow he sees the Kṛṣṇa book and it just somehow jumps out, appeals to him, so he grabs the Kṛṣṇa book and he opens it up to the chapter where Vasudeva is preaching to Kamsa about the impermanence of this life, about the soul, about transmigration, about all these things. 

He is reading this and it makes such a deep impression that now for the next two or three days he just doesn’t go to work and he just reads the Kṛṣṇa book all day for several days. During this time he has this transformation of consciousness and he realizes, “Okay, my wife is just going to another body,” and all of these things. So there is a little solace at heart. But then he thinks, “What did I do. I caused so much harm to this person who was trying to give me Krishna, was trying to give me a way to escape this cycle of birth and death.”

He looks in the back and he sees all the addresses and he sees that there is a temple in Madrid so he goes. Apparently this was on a Wednesday as the story goes and he shows up and he feels so badly and he is in a mood of just trying somehow or another to be forgiven. So the temple president opens the door of the temple and here’s this man, he is in a suit, and he is on his knees like this, “Please forgive me. Please forgive me. I didn’t know what I was doing.” And he is lamenting like anything. Of course the temple president had no idea what was going on. He thought this person must be a madman or something. 

So, he invites him in and they speak and everything. He explains what happened and then he says, “Is there any service I can do?” Then finally he writes a check for quite a big sum of money, leaves it there.

Let us fast track to the next Sunday. So the temple president is giving a lecture and he looks out and he sees this man at the back of the temple room just sitting there listening, listening. And this person comes week after week after week and he is just listening and he is absorbing and finally it comes to a point where he wants to join the temple. Of course in those days not so many affluent persons—he was a big bank manager—not so many persons of that caliber joined. He was probably in his early forties or something. He let him join. 

One of the first services that he did—it was quite ironic—he was a treasurer in the temple, like a banker. But then came the Christmas marathon and he heard about book distribution and he said, “I want to do this.” So then he went out and apparently he was very good at this, distributing books, and he was doing this for some time. And then there was some kind of festival, some kind of zonal festival or something, and devotees from different countries gathered. In this festival he met that girl, that young devotee girl that he had abused in that way and he was crying and he was lamenting, “How could I have done this,” and he begged for forgiveness. Vaishnavas don’t hold grudges so she easily forgave him and this person went on to just being quite a good devotee. As I heard it he eventually got initiated. He was serving. He mentioned his name was Surya-Narayana or something. That was his name.

So quite an amazing thing. The point here is that even one may be the most envious of persons and do very extreme things that the mercy of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is really unlimited and with the mercy it is said that we can do anything. If one can remember Lord Chaitanya the most difficult thing becomes easy, but if you forget Lord Chaitanya even the easiest thing becomes impossible. Therefore Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s mercy is unlimited. Often Prabhupada spoke about this at installation ceremonies, especially when they were installing Gaura-Nitai. And these were times when Prabhupada became very emotional. He started to speak about the inconceivable mercy of Lord Chaitanya and he would just breakdown. He said, “It is unlimited. The mercy is unlimited.” 

We invite kṛpā by assisting Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda and this fuels our sadhana so that we can actually come to that position of Vrindavan consciousness—that is our goal—but we can’t approach Vrindavan except through the mercy of Lord Chaitanya and Lord Nityananda Prabhu. Often Prabhupada was very strong on this point of sadhana because sometimes we can say, “Well, I don’t have time,” or, “We have other priorities,” or we have unlimited excuses we can come up with.

So was one incident in 1975 or so that Prabhupada was passing through Montreal and as Sivarama Maharaja tells the story—he was there—so Prabhupada arrives, he was only there for a few hours, because he was in transit. I think this was when Prabhupada was in India with Indira Gandhi or something. Prabhupada was going back. 

Giriraj Swami: They had arranged an appointment with her.

Giridhari Swami: Yes, he had to go back so he had to cut the tour short, and he went there on transit. And so all the devotees lined up. It wasn’t a big community. It was mostly temple devotees and they were all there. So Prabhupada was welcomed by all these devotees and there was one congregational member, Indian bodied congregation member who had been coming for some time and by that time he had become quite serious and was actually chanting sixteen rounds, but for some reason Prabhupada singled him out and he said, “So are you chanting sixteen rounds?” And that person, he was so taken aback that Prabhupada would talk to him, he just froze and he couldn’t think, he didn’t know what to say, and he said, “I am trying, I am trying to Srila Prabhupada.” 

So then as the story goes, Prabhupada took his cane and he put it right in the person’s solar plexus and he started to press him and Prabhupada pushed and pushed until this person was against the wall of the temple and Prabhupada was pushing like this and he said, “Don’t try. Just do it.” [laughter]

So Prabhupada wants us to do it and those excuses don’t really hold much water with him. So we have to make that effort and wherever we are at. . . even Srimati Radharani, She never thinks that She is doing enough for Krishna. She is always trying to do more or trying to improve whatever She does. Even though in Vrindavan things are being done again and again and again, She makes that same sweet, but She keeps improving it day by day so it is more relishable by Krishna. If we say, “Well, yes, we are fulfilling the basic requirements,” or as we used to say in Catholicism fulfilling our weekly obligation, maybe we are doing the minimum, but then the question is the quality of it, how we chant. As Maharaja said, we chant to chant without offense, without offense and with full attention and with love in the heart. So that means we are always trying to raise the bar and trying to improve. Every time we put our hand in the bead bag or whatever we do, we are always trying to improve. 

So the effort is required and if we make that effort and it is an effort that is always trying to increase, to be improved upon, and if we make our contribution to the mission. . . it used to be that everybody was a preacher. There wasn’t anything else but preaching and preachers—that is all that devotees did. Now there are only a few persons doing it wherever we go. But everybody was doing it. The fact is that everybody can do it even a little bit. Even little things, they make such a huge difference. Just that devotee gave a book to this man and look what happened but ultimately that person was delivered. So even a little thing, a little effort—one book, participate in a hari-nāma—just try to share Krishna consciousness with another person, and we get this tremendous benefit, incalculable really.

So if we do that, then, by the mercy of the Vaishnavas, guru and Krishna, we can come to that level of Vrindavan in consciousness. Hare Krishna.

[break in recording]

Simultaneously they called up most of the temples, I think it was in North America, and what happened was that no one answered the phone. So what they concluded was that, “These people aren’t even worth investigating. They are so untogether that they can’t even answer the phone.” I am just saying that it makes a huge difference if we are personal, because you can go to a temple and it is a very impersonal experience. No one’s there sometimes. I am not saying it is the case here but in some places it is like that where someone comes and no one even pays attention to them. And beyond not paying attention to them sometimes we are even rude to them. Someone comes, “Why are you doing that?” or, “Why are you doing this?” So that is a very negative experience and because of that the person may never come back.

I am just saying it is person to person, so everybody, a little bit of personal contact, whether it is giving a book or whether it is speaking to someone, just taking a little time for doing that in addition to whatever else one is doing. I guess that was really my point. If everyone makes that little effort, it has a huge return. If everyone here in the next year had a goal, “I am going to bring one more person to Krishna consciousness,” then by next year Mathura will have to get a bigger house, we’ll have to double the size of the place. And is that really so difficult? If everyone has that mindset, “I am just going to try to bring one person in the next year,” some devotees can bring many persons, but if we just have the mindset, “I will just bring one person over the next year,” some things happen. Man proposes and God disposes. If you have the desire, Krishna responds to it. I know that devotees are doing so many wonderful services and Dallas is such a sterling example of devotees working cooperatively and doing so many wonderful things and wonderful restaurant and beautiful Deity worship—so many wonderful things—but just that little bit of extra effort on the part of every individual just to try to reach out to one other person. I guess that was my point.

Nityananda dasa: What you are saying is absolutely correct. We have become more risk averse now. It is a personal cultivation of relationships. And the percentage now is less than it was when Prabhupada’s disciples where the only ones who were on the planet. Because we are larger in number it seems it is happening because relatively few people percentage wise but quantity wise there are a number who are reaching out. 

The reason I feel that some people do not build those relationships is because of the risk you are running. When you are building a relationship you deal with the issues that the person has. Like there may be marital problems. So when someone is preaching you are in a sense holding yourself out to befriending the person and dealing with some of the issues that they have and people don’t want to take on the issues because they got their own issues and they feel like, “Why do I have to have somebody else’s issues. It is better to chant Hare Krishna and be quiet and not be out there.” I sense that. 

What would be a way to say to those people, “Take the risk because it is only going to help you.”? Taking the risk of dealing with somebody else’s life, it is not easy, but the alternative will be it is going to come in other ways anyway. The problem is going to come in some other way and you got to deal with it in that way and it is going to be even worse because you are not helping anybody now. You are just dealing with your own problems. Am I right? Krishna will give it to you anyway because He is going to make you get uncomfortable to this world otherwise you want to stay back. How we can encourage these devotees to take the risk, please take the risk? Leading by example is [one way.] Even then some devotees feel very humble. We feel, “I can’t do this. Others can but I can’t.”

Giridhari Swami: I think we have to remember Lord Chaitanya’s instruction; He wanted everybody to become a guru by repeating the message of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He wanted everybody to do that. He didn’t say it was just a business of a few persons. There is no clause in there that says about people’s personal issues and this and that. He just said just repeat the message. That is part of the austerities and we have to deal with that. But all of that is really superfluous to the soul. This is all a covering. Okay, we are dealing with the individual, those coverings are there. We have to help the person if we can to work through that, but that can’t be a reason for not giving Krishna consciousness or not trying to give Krishna consciousness to another person. 

And the gain is immeasurable as we said that Lord Chaitanya, Krishna becomes very, very indebted. As Gunagrahi Maharaja said last night, he quoted Bhagavad-gītā that no one is more dear, that one who preaches the message, no one is more dear. So why does Krishna say that? He didn’t say, “Well, but just don’t preach to the people who have issues.” To everybody. That is what Lord Chaitanya did, He gave it to everybody indiscriminately. He gave it to everybody—rich, poor, educated, uneducated—everybody.

Devotee: Srila Gurudeva used to always say that those who take the most risk always. . . [?] examples of the frontline. All of the different aspects of the military are vital to the success and they all get recognition for that but those that are in the frontline always get a little extra. We also see our own servicemen who go into battle and come back, there is more people to greet them than the guys who are sitting in the. . . I think even amongst the devotees, we all recognize that, yes, we are doing service and we are supporting the worldwide movement in our own little ways, but we all feel in our heart that somehow if we had the gumshan to take that risk and get in the frontline and do a little bit more we know that it would be more apt to get some attention that you were speaking about. I feel it myself.

Giridhari Swami: I am not even necessarily saying the frontline. I am just saying anywhere, anywhere you can reach out. You don’t have to be out there twelve hours a day. If someone can do that it is wonderful, but even part time. I think of the example of Vaisesika Prabhu, he was taxing his brain, taxing his brain, how to do this, because things have evolved, persons have jobs, they have families and all kinds of commitments, so he came up with the weekend warriors, part time, just a part time way of getting more books out or whatever. So even part time, even some minutes in a week makes a difference, makes a huge difference, but the main thing is to, as Śrīdhara Maharaja used to say, if we preach the message, make sure you get their phone number and address so you can follow up. It means you have to cultivate the persons and develop a personal relationship and keep following, following, following. And that is the thing, people want love, they want to feel that someone really cares for them, and if they feel that, that is the most attractive thing to bring someone in.

Devotee: Maharaja, that is really inspirational. It is like Krishna’s listening to us because for many weeks now Ritika has been wanting to start a study circle here in the neighborhood right here and we have Nityananda Prabhu’s support, but the reason I mentioned it is we’ll need everyone in this room’s support to get it going because we are not qualified. I am certainly not qualified, but we are going to take your message. [applause]

Giridhari Swami: Just that effort makes a huge difference. Just little things, they make a huge difference.

Giriraj Swami: I will just add one point. Yesterday we spoke about the idea of taking books with you wherever you go and I did take books with me to White Rock Lake, but I kept them in the car, because they didn’t fit in my pocket, but I am leading up to something that everyone here can do. There was a group of, I couldn’t place them, they looked like they were Hindus but they didn’t respond to me like Hindus. So then I thought maybe they are Muslims but then I saw a whole group of them with their shoes off. No, they are not Muslims. And then I saw some they looked oriental and I thought maybe they are from China or the Philippines or somewhere. So anyway there was a man sitting on the bench away from the others. It turns out that they’re from Bhutan and they are refugees from the atrocities that were being committed there. They went to Nepal and then somehow from Nepal they came here.

So we talking and then he said, “Where is your temple?” And here’s where this very important device comes in, the invitation and mantra card. Even if you are in a situation where you can’t put books in your pocket, carry these cards with you because they can also bring people to Krishna, but we also want to be sure they have a good experience when they come. So we need to pay a little attention to that. But this can also help. Hare Krishna.

And just a little footnote to what His Holiness Giridhari Swami said, just to see that example, if it works, because devotees do travel, but if it works, if you can visit ISKCON of Silicon Valley, you will get a sense of what Maharaja was talking about. It is amazing. There is one lady—there are so many—named Malini, I would meet her, she is a very nice lady, very pious housewife and mother, and I went to their house, took prasāda. She has a very nice, sweet daughter. Going back after maybe two years I saw that she is like a mad woman, she is completely changed, she is like a mad woman, she just wants to push book distribution. You would think pious, devoted Hindu housewife but she is like a mad woman. She has that. I don’t even know how it happened but she has that, and so many of them do, to some extent. I recommend it as a pilgrimage. It can really open your eyes to the possibilities. It is amazing.

Devotee: I just had something that came to my mind and I don’t want to take away from the emphasis of preaching and bringing devotees to the temple by any means, but it just came to my mind, but sometimes in our relationship with devotees we have difference of opinion and we feel whatever it might be, somehow or the other we end up having difficulties in our relationships with one another and those become so strong that it creates divide and risk between different devotees in the community. Sometimes it feels like we are pulling for different teams and I am just trying to understand how we can. . . because we want to bring people in, we are going to bring people into an atmosphere that they don’t feel loved and taken care off or to a nice environment. They might not stay around or they may not want to be part of that. Maybe if you can give some guidance how we can help foster that more and create that environment so that when people do come in, they feel like they do not want to leave.

Giriraj Swami: I agree with you completely. I just feel that bringing people in will help that. Like I don’t know how messy or clean your house is or anyone’s, but when you have a program and invite people, you clean it up, because you are having guests. So that is what we are thinking if we go out and bring people in and we really care about the people that are coming then we’ll want to clean up our house so they have the good experience that you just mentioned. 

There are other approaches but I think that is accessible for everyone and practical and spiritual. Nityananda Prabhu was saying how in business they say everyone is in sales. Now again, I don’t know how well your car is maintained, but if you were to put your car up for sale, it might be cleaner than it is now. You might take a few of the scuff marks out that are still there now. I think that outward looking approach will help us inside.

Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

Giridhari Swami: One more point. Generally in the material there is such fierce competition. Philosophically everyone is kind of trying to get to the top position so there is competition for that. So this creates all the divides because everyone is trying to get the same thing. And because of that people are very dissatisfied; they are looking for an alternative. So we have to create that alternative where other people see that, “These people are different, they have such wonderful, loving, harmonious relationships,” and that is the thing that is so attractive. They are looking for something that they don’t have. So we should want to provide that. We should create such a situation that people will say, “This is different. This is really special.” Prabhupada said this is supposed to be the spiritual world. They should see that; they should feel it in the association of the devotees. And that is the most powerful thing.

Giriraj Swami: It is good to give people your name so they can find you and continue their interaction with you, but we should try to come to the level where even if you personally aren’t there they will have a good experience. I remember in the Boston temple when I joined there was much enthusiasm to preach to the new people who came on Sunday, in our iṣṭa-goṣṭhīs we had to set rules so too many people don’t preach to the same newcomer. If you see someone is beginning with the person let that person continue. But now it can be the opposite, they come and the devotees just sit with their friends whereas then everyone. . . it was a rule but everyone wanted to do it, sit next to a new person and talk to them.

Giridhari Swami: I was going to say but when you were saying that I think all of us feel also pushed by Goswami Maharaja because he was never one to become complacent. He was never satisfied with the status quo. He was always wanting to bring things to the next level. So there is no doubt in my mind that he wants things to go forward and such a big component of that is some outreach but then taking care of people when they come. 

I just remembered the first time I ever went to a temple, it happened to be Gainesville, Florida, a small temple, but when I was coming, I was just ready to come to the door of this small temple, then this devotee came out, very effulgent looking brahmachari, and the way he greeted me was like I was like his long lost brother. It just like that, he was beaming and he was so welcoming. He had all the time in the world for me and he just stayed with me for hours through the whole. . . he showed me the temple room because by that time the kirtan had finished and they had moved to taking prasāda and so he patiently showed me the Deities, showed me how to bow down, showed me Prabhupada and all this, caraṇāmṛta. Then he took me to the feast and he was very patient. And you feel like you are being loved and taken care off, someone really cares about you personally. It makes this huge difference.

Now if I would have had an opposite experience who knows if I would have ever come back. And some people unfortunately do have bad experiences. If nothing else, just impersonal where no one really cares or no one says anything. They come and no one says anything to them. That is not the way we were trained. Like Maharaja said, the Sunday feast was the time everybody preached. A devotee always sat down to a new guest and just spent the time with them. I know in our early days in Hong Kong that is all we did. We took that time. It is required. It spreads person to person. That is the way it works: what you have you give and people are attracted. And you build a relationship and they feel that, “That person really is special, they really care about me,” and it is something totally opposite of what they have experience in the material world where everybody is exploiting everybody else and no one cares about anybody except themselves. It is a selfishness. So if they see the opposite that is so attractive.

Giriraj Swami: When I began visiting businessmen in India, especially retailers, they had a sign and it might have had more items but one really struck me that, “The customer is not an interruption to our business. The customer is the purpose of our business.” So when someone comes in, we should always. . ., “I have business to do, I can’t be bothered,” but he is the business, our business is him or her.