SB 10.13.60 – Vrindavan Is All-Pervading

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: I feel very blessed to be here in Vraja Bhumi. As Srila Prabhupada wrote, one cannot come to Vrindavan by purchasing a ticket. It is only by mercy that one can come to Vrindavan. And within Vrindavan, it is a great fortune to have the association of pure devotees whose only desire is to develop love for Krishna and to serve Him. And in that association, the discussions of Krishna are very relishable and beneficial. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ, the talks of Krishna in the association of devotees are very pleasing to the ear and to the heart. And by such chanting and hearing, śraddhā ratir bhaktir anukramiṣyati, one advances through the different stages from sraddha to bhāva to prema. Every particle of Vrindavan is transcendental; every speck of dust, every molecule of air, the trees, the grass, the rivers, the lakes, it is all transcendental and infused with spiritual potency. So, our duty is to open ourselves to this spiritual, blissful potency, so that by association with the dhāma and with the pure devotees, we can also become purified and surcharged with spiritual bliss.

Srila Prabhupada has explained the principle of association with the example of an iron rod. An iron rod is cold and hard, but if you put that iron rod in fire, it will gradually become warmer and warmer, and hotter and hotter, until finally, it becomes red-hot. And then, that iron rod no longer acts as iron, but it acts as fire, and if you touch anything to it, it will burn. So, by associating with Krishna through chanting His holy names, by hearing about Him from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, by associating with pure devotees who carry Him within their hearts, and by associating with Him in the form of His holy dhāma, it is like placing that iron rod in fire, we gradually become more and more spiritualized, or Krishna-ized. And when we fully absorb that, like the iron rod absorbing the fire, then we become just like fire, and we become fit to serve the transcendental Lord in His transcendental abode.

Now, there is also a statement. I mean, the first time when I heard it from Srila Prabhupada, I was quite struck by it. He said that just as Krishna is all-pervading, His abode of Vrindavan is also all-pervading. Of course, we can feel the presence of Krishna and the influence of the dhāma relatively easily when we come here physically, but we can also experience it even when we are not here physically. And as many of you are approaching the end of Kartik and the end of the Vraja-mandala parikramā, you will be thinking how to keep the experience of Vrindavan with you even when you leave the dhāma physically. So, this is a very important topic.

The first time I visited Vrindavan was late in 1970. In October, Srila Prabhupada had taken a party of disciples from Bombay to Amritsar. And after the program in Amritsar, the train halted in the New Delhi station on the way back to Bombay. And one gentleman who had been corresponding with Srila Prabhupada, asked Srila Prabhupada if he could leave some disciples in Delhi to begin a center. So, Gurudas and Yamuna assisted by Gopal, Bhakta Bruce, who now is His Holiness Bhanu Swami, and I, we all got down in Delhi. And after some time, Srila Prabhupada wrote Gurudas, asking him to go to Vrindavan to see about getting some property for ISKCON.

So, Gurudas Prabhu went, leaving the rest of us in Delhi, and he said he would be back in three days. So, the days were passing. In those days, there were no cell phones, what to speak of computers, and even the regular telephone system was quite sporadic. So, we had no way of communicating with Gurudas, and he was not communicating with us. So, Yamuna devi decided that as a group, we should go to Vrindavan to try to find him. And when we met him, he told us what some of the local people had told him when he arrived. When he told them that he had to finish his business in three days and leave, they all smiled, and they said, “Vrindavan is a very special place, and Vrindavan will decide when you leave.” [laughter] So, he, I guess, came into the loving embrace of Vrindavan, and She didn’t let him go.

So, of course, there was no ISKCON in Vrindavan, we were just visiting in the hopes of getting some place. And I wanted to explore, so I just went to the town of Vrindavan and was just trying to absorb the mood. And gradually, time passed, it started to get dark, and I tried to figure out the way back to where the devotees were staying, but all those little lanes seemed the same to me. And they didn’t seem to go in straight lines, it was sort of hard to know where I was or how to get back. So, finally, I surrendered to the situation, it was already pretty late, and I saw there were some sadhus just lying down on the steps to one of the temples, a pretty big temple. So, I thought, Alright, I’ll also just lie down there. [laughter] So, I also spent the night on the steps of the temple. And eventually, morning came, there was light, and somehow, I made it back to the devotees.

So, after Vrindavan, we eventually returned to Bombay, and Srila Prabhupada asked what we had experienced, he asked me what I had experienced. So, I said that I felt that I could feel the presence of Krishna as if He was just there with Balarama and the cows. And he said, “Yes. In this stage, you can feel the presence of Krishna. You cannot see Him, but you can feel His presence.” And even though we weren’t able to secure any property then, but we all agreed that the visit to Vrindavan had not been in vain, because we got to have that experience.

So, then we had the first Calcutta pandal, and Srila Prabhupada sent Tamal Krishna Goswami and me to Calcutta to put on the first pandal there. And after some time in Calcutta, I became quite sick. And so, I went to stay at the home of one of our supporters, C. L. Bajoria in Alipur. And Janmashtami came quite soon, and I was very disappointed that I couldn’t go to the temple for Janmashtami, and I didn’t know what to do.

So, I thought, I’ll just chant Hare Krishna, I’ll just chant rounds. And without any plan, I was just chanting rounds, chanting rounds, chanting rounds. And after a while, I can’t remember exactly, but maybe when I got to around forty rounds, I started to feel the exact same feeling that I had when I had been in Vrindavan. I thought, Wow, this is amazing! I thought I could have this experience only in Vrindavan. So, I kept chanting, I think maybe chanted fifty-eight rounds or something. But that was really what struck me the most, that that same feeling could be experienced outside of Vrindavan by chanting and by the mercy of that holy day, Janmashtami.

So, now, I will read a verse and purport that explains in more detail what is Vrindavan, so that we can try to recreate Vrindavan wherever we go, and also so that we can free ourselves of obstacles that could interfere with our experience in Vrindavan even while we are here. So, this verse is from the Tenth Canto, Thirteenth Chapter: “The Stealing of the Boys and Calves by Brahmā.”

You must have heard the pastime when Lord Brahma came and He stole the cowherd boys and calves, and Krishna expanded Himself into an exact replica of the cowherd boys and calves. And after a year of earthly time, which was just a moment of Lord Brahma’s time, Lord Brahma realized that He had made a mistake, and He came back to that spot from which He had stolen the cowherd boys and calves, when Krishna and the cowherd boys were having a picnic. And Lord Brahma was astonished to see that all the cowherd boys and calves whom He had stolen and kept somewhere else were just as they were before He stole them. So, he  became confused. And then, because all those cowherd boys were actually expansions of Krishna, Krishna arranged for those cowherd boys to show their forms as Vishnu, who, of course, is an expansion of Krishna. And the whole scene became very bewildering to Lord Brahma. Although He is the most intelligent creature in the universe, He was completely bewildered. So, out of His mercy towards Lord Brahma, Krishna covered that display of His godly opulence, and made everything look just like it was before, just like the simple Vrindavan forest and village.

TEXT 59

Then, looking in all directions, Lord Brahmā immediately saw Vṛndāvana before him, filled with trees, which were the means of livelihood for the inhabitants and which were equally pleasing in all seasons.

COMMENT

And now, Text Sixty, which is the verse that I really wanted to discuss. For the sake of time, I’ll just read the Sanskrit. Well, we’ll be a little spontaneous here, but I’ll begin by reading the Sanskrit, and then we can read the synonyms responsibly.

TEXT 60

yatra naisarga-durvairāḥ

sahāsan nṛ-mṛgādayaḥ

mitrāṇīvājitāvāsa-

druta-ruṭ-tarṣakādikam

TRANSLATION

Vṛndāvana is the transcendental abode of the Lord, where there is no hunger, anger or thirst. Though naturally inimical, both human beings and fierce animals live there together in transcendental friendship.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The word vana means “forest.” We are afraid of the forest and do not wish to go there, but in Vṛndāvana the forest animals are as good as demigods, for they have no envy.

COMMENT

Now, this is the crucial point. The difference between the material world and the spiritual world is that in the spiritual world, there is no envy. We come into the material world out of envy of Krishna. And if we can cleanse our heart from envy, then we can go back to Krishna, we can re-enter the spiritual world.

PURPORT (continued)

Even in the material world, in the forest the animals live together, and when they go to drink water they do not attack anyone.

COMMENT

Now, here is the next important point.

PURPORT (continued)

Envy develops because of sense gratification, but in Vṛndāvana there is no sense gratification, for the only aim is Kṛṣṇa’s satisfaction. Even in the material world, the animals in Vṛndāvana are not envious of the sādhus who live there. The sādhus keep cows and supply milk to the tigers, saying, “Come here and take a little milk.” Thus envy and malice are unknown in Vṛndāvana. That is the difference between Vṛndāvana and the ordinary world. We are horrified to hear the name of vana, the forest, but in Vṛndāvana there is no such horror. Everyone there is happy by pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Whether a gosvāmī or a tiger or other ferocious animal, everyone’s business is the same — to please Kṛṣṇa. Even the tigers are also devotees. This is the specific qualification of Vṛndāvana. In Vṛndāvana everyone is happy. The calf is happy, the cat is happy, the dog is happy, the man is happy — everyone. Everyone wants to serve Kṛṣṇa in a different capacity, and thus there is no envy.

COMMENT

So, first qualification, no envy. Second qualification, no sense gratification. Envy comes from sense gratification. And why is there no sense gratification? Because the goal is to please Krishna, to satisfy Krishna, to gratify His senses, not our senses. And in that spirit, everyone is happy. That’s what Vrindavan means, “In Vṛndāvana everyone is happy. The calf is happy, the cat is happy, the dog is happy, the man is happy—everyone.”

And then, Srila Prabhupada explains that everyone in Vrindavan serves Krishna in a different capacity. No two people are the same. If we look in this pandal, there are no two people that look exactly the same. They don’t speak the same, they don’t talk the same, they don’t walk the same. Everyone is individual. And in the material world, people don’t like other people to be different. They identify with a particular body, and they don’t like people whose designations are different from theirs. But in Vrindavan, there is only one designation, Krishnadasa. And everyone appreciates the service of everyone else. Everyone will serve in a little different way because we are all individual, but the focus is service to Krishna, making Krishna happy. And when one devotee sees that another devotee is pleasing Krishna by his or her service, that devotee becomes happy thinking that Krishna is happy.

PURPORT (continued)

One may sometimes think that the monkeys in Vṛndāvana are envious, because they cause mischief and steal food, but in Vṛndāvana we find that the monkeys are allowed to take butter, which Kṛṣṇa Himself distributes.

COMMENT

Well, I don’t want to speak too much about the monkeys, but I think the idea is that if Krishna would feed them butter, then so, if Krishna’s devotees would feed them, then they wouldn’t have to steal. [laughter] But anyway. Yeah, actually, Srila Prabhupada’s father was a cloth merchant. And at a certain point, rats came and were eating the cloth. So, Srila Prabhupada’s father left food for the rats to eat. And so, they would eat the food and leave the cloth alone.

PURPORT (continued)

Kṛṣṇa personally demonstrates that everyone has the right to live. This is Vṛndāvana life. Why should I live and you die? No. That is material life. The inhabitants of Vṛndāvana think, “Whatever is given by Kṛṣṇa, let us divide it as prasāda and eat.” This mentality cannot appear all of a sudden.

COMMENT

Before reading the next sentence, I will ask you, learned devotees, “This mentality cannot develop all of a sudden.” How does it develop? If you have an answer, raise your hand. How does this mentality develop? Yes? Were you raising your. . .? Yes? Oh, Raghava Goswami. [laughter]

Devotee: By serving the dhāma vasis.

Giriraj Swami: By serving the dhāma vasis. Who else? Yes?

Devotee: Serving the devotees.

Giriraj Swami: By serving the devotees. Keep translating. [laughter] Yes, in the back? Way up the back? Can someone closer to her repeat it and it’ll gradually come to us? By sādhana-bhakti? Alright, now we’ll read what Srila Prabhupada says. None of these answers were wrong, they included, to some extent, what Srila Prabhupada said.

PURPORT (continued)

This mentality cannot appear all of a sudden, but it will gradually develop with Kṛṣṇa consciousness; by sādhana, one can come to this platform.

COMMENT

So, sadhana is very important to develop this consciousness. And the basic sadhana is, of course, to chant sixteen rounds, follow the regulative principles. The morning program that Srila Prabhupada established for the temples can be followed even at home. Srila Prabhupada said that most people will be householders, they will not be able to live in the temple, but we have the temple to show the example of how they can practice Krishna consciousness. So, as far as possible, we should try to replicate the temple program and activities in our homes if we are unable to come to the temple. And if we are in a position where we can come to the temple, we should come.

PURPORT (continued)

In the material world one may collect funds all over the world in order to distribute food freely, yet those to whom the food is given may not even feel appreciative.

COMMENT

I thought about this line in South Africa because. . . Anyway, it’s a little political. But people were distributing food to the local black Africans, and they resented it. They thought it was part of the establishment’s efforts to keep them down and avoid the revolution that they felt was necessary, or the change that they thought was necessary.

PURPORT (continued)

The value of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however, will gradually be very much appreciated.

COMMENT

In 1971, there was that war with Pakistan, and then East Pakistan separated, became Bangladesh. And so, many refugees flooded over the Indian borders from East Pakistan, Bangladesh, and came to India. There were very huge refugee camps in Bengal, and the devotees went there, and they did hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and preached. And the refugees hardly had food to eat, and practically the whole day, they would just wait until it was time for their meager meal, when the bell rang that they could get some food. When the devotees were doing hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and speaking about Krishna, all the refugees gathered around, and when the bell rang that it’s time for food, they didn’t go. They felt they were getting more benefit from the hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana and kṛṣṇa-kathā than they would get by filling their hungry bellies. The managers of the refugee camp said, “It is the first time in the history of the camp that the refugees did not immediately rush to go for their food.” So, yeah, Krishna consciousness is appreciated more than anything, more than even feeding people. Okay, so, I’ll just repeat.

PURPORT (continued)

In the material world one may collect funds all over the world in order to distribute food freely, yet those to whom the food is given may not even feel appreciative. The value of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however, will gradually be very much appreciated. For instance, in an article about the temple of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in Durban, South Africa, the Durban Post. . .

COMMENT

That is the name of the newspaper.

PURPORT (continued)

. . . reported, “All the devotees here are very active in the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and the results are obvious to see: happiness, good health, peace of mind, and the development of all good qualities.”

COMMENT

So, that’s what the newspaper said. The observation of that newspaper reporter confirmed what Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Srila Prabhupada are saying. It was clear even to that person.

PURPORT (continued)

This is the nature of Vṛndāvana. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, happiness is impossible; one may struggle, but one cannot have happiness. We are therefore trying to give human society the opportunity for a life of happiness, good health, peace of mind and all good qualities through God consciousness.

COMMENT

Srila Prabhupada’s vision was so vast. He is saying that that consciousness of Vrindavan can develop, and that the temple can be Vrindavan. Actually, the temple is meant to be Vrindavan, where there is no sense gratification, where there is no envy, where everyone’s aim is just to please Krishna. The temple is Vrindavan, and the results are obvious. Srila Prabhupada is going beyond the temple; he wants the whole world to live that life and experience Vrindavan.

One year after the Prabhupada Festival in Los Angeles, Srila Prabhupada’s Sanskrit editor named Pradyumna dasa spent a couple of days with me in Santa Barbara. And he had read so many books, scriptures, and writings by previous acharyas in Sanskrit and Bengali, and he said that after reading so many books, he could see that there was something different about Srila Prabhupada from everyone else. And the difference is that Srila Prabhupada related the scripture to the world in general. Generally, the scriptures are meant for devotees, how they can practice sādhana-bhakti and become purified.

So, generally, the scriptures are read and explained in terms of the individual practitioner, but Srila Prabhupada would apply the same principles on a global scale, to purify not only the heart of the individual, yes, that means society, means a collection of individuals, but he was thinking how it could be applied beyond the individual, beyond the household, to the whole world. So, that should be part of what we take with us from our time in Vrindavan. Yeah, we want to keep the Vrindavan mood personally, we want the Vrindavan mood in our home, we want the Vrindavan mood in our temples, and we should also try to encourage people to take to Krishna consciousness so that the whole world can become like Vrindavan.

I remember once in Mayapur, we were walking with Srila Prabhupada on his terrace, and, of course, Mayapur and Vrindavan are not different, and one of the devotees said to Srila Prabhupada, “Mayapur is so nice. I wish I never had to leave Mayapur.” And Srila Prabhupada, it was a morning walk but on his rooftop, and he stopped and looked that disciple in the eyes, and he said, “Now you have to make the whole world Mayapur.” [laughter] And that is the Vrindavan mood; sharing whatever we have by Krishna’s grace. We have this knowledge by Krishna’s grace, now we must share it. And that is the Vrindavan mood. Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna. [applause]

Organizer: Questions?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I’m fine with questions.

Organizer: Any devotees have any questions? Yes?

Giriraj Swami: Raghava Goswami? Can we pass that microphone to him, or. . .?

Devotee: Thank you, Guru Maharaja, for coming and giving us a wonderful speech on the glories of Vraja. On behalf of the devotees on the Vraja-mandala parikramā, I have a small question to ask. Before coming here, you had the mood of coming to Vraja and staying for quite some time. What did you feel coming to Vraja? What was the experience you felt before coming to Vraja?

Giriraj Swami: I thought of one verse in The Nectar of Devotion, in which the devotee is talking about visiting different places of Krishna’s pastimes and remembering the pastimes. I think something like, “Here is where Krishna tipped over the cart, and here is where Krishna did that, and here is where Krishna did that.” And thus, that devotee was feeling transcendental bliss. Oh yes, here it is, exactly. I won’t read the Sanskrit; the Sanskrit is quoted from Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu.

“Here was Nanda Gokula.”

The very place where we are.

“Here the cart was smashed to pieces, and here Damodara was bound by ropes. When can I drink the sweet honey from the mouth of an elderly dweller of Mathura? Fill my eyes with tears of joy and wander in the pious city of Mathura.”

So, that’s where we are, that’s what we are here to do. And another reason I was eager to come was to associate with advanced devotees, advanced godbrothers. And yesterday, I had the opportunity to speak with Bhurijana Prabhu by phone, not even in person. But just by speaking with him, I felt very purified and pacified at heart. In the course of our talk, he mentioned how healing Vrindavan is, how healing to the heart. He didn’t mention it yesterday, but one place in particular, Mansarovara, is especially meant for healing hearts. But I found that just speaking with Bhurijana Prabhu on the phone was very soothing to my heart.

So, as Krishna says in the Tenth Canto, one should not go to a holy place of pilgrimage just to take bath. The animals also go in the rivers and lakes and take bath. But one should associate with people of knowledge in the holy place. So, that’s also a very major motive, or a purpose, in my coming to Vraja. Of course, all devotees. . . Prabhupada said, “Every Vaishnava is a śikṣā-guru.” So, we can learn from all the devotees. But there will be some whose knowledge and realization is of special interest, and so, part of coming to Vrindavan dhāma is to associate with them, which begins with hearing.

It was interesting, Bhurijana Prabhu mentioned that he had a talk with Sacinandana Swami just the other day. And Sacinandana Swami mentioned that when people meet you, most of the time they don’t really want to hear what you have to say, they are just waiting for the chance to say what they want to say. [laughter] But we should be like calves who want to drink the milk of our mother cow, we should be like that eager calf. Any other questions? Yes, Krishnacandra Prabhu?

Krishnacandra Prabhu: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. The question is, when the living entity is in the spiritual world, by the constitution of the living entity, it’s full of knowledge and bliss. So, how does, when one is full of knowledge, knowing that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and he is a servant of Krishna, how does that envy develop, and then ultimately, come down to the earth, to whatever planet, for sense gratification?

Giriraj Swami: So, that is a very difficult question to answer. [laughter] It has been said that in the conditioned state, one cannot understand the process by which one became conditioned. But we do have a process to become liberated, sādhana-bhakti, and when we are liberated, then we can understand how a soul becomes conditioned. So, we should focus on that more, but we should be attentive while we are here not to succumb to envy. Because in a way, that process can repeat itself again and again and again. We are in Vrindavan, we are relishing the association of devotees, the holy places, experiencing bliss, and somehow, some envy comes in our heart and we lose that sweet taste. So, then we have to work to get free from that envy. So, leaving Krishna and going back to Krishna, that in a way is going on all the time.

The mind can very easily and quickly take us away from Krishna. It really comes to envy, ultimately. We don’t want to chant Krishna’s name, we don’t want to glorify Krishna, we don’t want to serve Krishna. We want people to chant our name, to glorify us, and serve us. So, it’s a gradual process. I’m just making this up, let’s say we are all chanting japa together, people are chanting Radha’s and Krishna’s names, we may or may not pay much attention to the other devotees’ japa. But if in the background we hear someone mention our name, “Oh, they’re talking about me.” [laughter] “What are they saying?” We become extremely attentive to hear what they are saying about us. So, we need to transfer that eagerness, that attentiveness, to Krishna’s name. Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna. [applause]

Giriraj Swami: Yes?

Devotee: How can we become good servants?

Giriraj Swami: Well, as Srila Prabhupada said, “By serving the great, you become great.” So, by serving a great servant, you can become a great servant. It’s the principle, to take on the qualities of a person that you serve. And, of course, chanting and hearing offenselessly, that will purify the heart, and from within the heart, Krishna will give us the intelligence how to serve nicely. Hare Krishna. [applause] [Unintelligible 01:29:57]? Yeah, we need. . . Is there a portable microphone?

Devotee: Prabhupada wrote that [Unintelligible 01:30:21]

Giriraj Swami: Sorry?

Devotee: I said that Prabhupada wrote books not only for the devotees but wrote globally. I am not understanding what Pradyumna dasa is saying that Prabhupada is writing not just for devotees but Prabhupada is writing for the whole world. Not specifically wrote for the devotees. We read Srila Prabhupada’s books and became devotees.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, so, you are confirming. But what I think Pradyumna meant more was that when you get this knowledge, it’s not meant to be applied just in your life. Okay, you read that book and you became a devotee. So, you started to chant, you started to associate with devotees, you started to practice Krishna consciousness. But the idea is that when you read the book, you get information not only how to practice sādhana-bhakti yourself, you also get instructions to try to induce others, up to the heads of state, to introduce this system. I mean, there is a class of people who think that you should just practice for your own benefit, they don’t think of others.

Once, when we were struggling to get the Juhu Land in Bombay, I met one of the most famous, influential, and wealthy industrialists of India in Bombay. And Srila Prabhupada wanted me to ask for his help to solve the problem with getting the Juhu Land. So, the man replied, “Why do you want the land in Juhu? You should go outside of the city where no one will disturb you, and it will be very peaceful and quiet.” And that was his idea. And when I mentioned that to Srila Prabhupada, he became very angry, and he quoted the verse from the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān, that this knowledge is meant for the leaders, it’s not meant to be some sadhus out in the jungle just keeping to themselves.

So, that was Prabhupada’s mood. Even Mahaprabhu refused to meet Prataparudra because he was a king. But Prabhupada is quoting imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ yogaṁ proktavān. . . imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. . . rajarsi. . . kings. That was his mood. So, in that sense, he went beyond even others. They wouldn’t be the king, they wouldn’t cross the ocean, they wouldn’t do so many things because they didn’t want to be contaminated. But Prabhupada, he was so much on fire with Krishna consciousness. He could burn through any barrier, any restriction, no one could stop him. And that’s where we are following in that line. [applause]

Devotee: Hare Krishna, Guru Maharaja. Thank you for a wonderful, very inspiring class. Coming to the main point of envy, at the end, you said very nicely that if we serve a person who is great, we can become a great servant. At the same time, I had heard another statement, which is not coming very clearly to my mind, and I wanted any clarification from you on that. I’d also heard that somebody envies you. If somebody envies you, or if you have envy of somebody, then you serve the person. Right? I’m not very clear in my mind right now, so I want to get that clarity. I heard that when somebody envies you, there are people around you who envy you and don’t cooperate, then what should be our attitude towards them? On one hand, we want to serve the perfect to become perfect, but we may be put under a condition where we have to serve people who are not very perfect, but we are under them, they envy you also maybe, and then how do we handle that situation?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the purpose of everything in our activities is to please Krishna. So, it’s true that if one serves a materialistic person, he can develop materialistic qualities. But sometimes we have to serve a materialistic person to please Krishna.

And Srila Prabhupada gave the example of the woman whose husband wanted to enjoy with a very expensive prostitute. So, that chaste wife served that expensive prostitute because there was no way that her husband could afford to pay that price. And eventually, by serving that prostitute, that prostitute became so indebted to that lady, that it came to the point where she was ready to have that lady’s husband spend one night with her. So, externally, she was serving the prostitute, but actually, she was serving her husband. So, Srila Prabhupada said, “In the same way, we may also have to serve materialistic people for the sake of Krishna’s service. And then, that’s also purifying.” I mean, of course, if one is lucky enough. . . But anyway, that’s the direct answer to your question.

So, thank you very much. [applause] I really feel grateful to have had this opportunity to come to this sacred place and the association of all of you, and I pray to always remember the experience of Vrindavan dhāma and my experience with all of you.