SB 5.12.3 – Eagerness to Hear

Giriraj Swami: 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

We will read from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Canto Five, Chapter Twelve – “Rahūgaṇa Converses with Jaḍa Bharata.”

TEXT 3

tasmād bhavantaṁ mama saṁśayārthaṁ
prakṣyāmi paścād adhunā subodham
adhyātma-yoga-grathitaṁ tavoktam
ākhyāhi kautūhala-cetaso me

TRANSLATION

Whatever doubts I have about a particular subject matter I shall ask you about later. For the time being, these mysterious yoga instructions you have given me for self-realization appear very difficult to understand. Please repeat them in a simple way so that I can understand them. My mind is very inquisitive, and I want to understand this clearly.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The Vedic literature instructs: tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. An intelligent man must be very inquisitive to know the transcendental science deeply. Therefore one must approach a guru, a spiritual master. Although Jaḍa Bharata explained everything to Mahārāja Rahūgaṇa, it appears that his intelligence was not perfect enough to understand clearly. He therefore requested a further explanation. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā (4.34): tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. The student must approach a spiritual master and surrender unto him fully (praṇipātena). He must also question him in order to understand his instructions (paripraśnena). One should not only surrender to the spiritual master but also render loving service unto him (sevayā) so that the spiritual master will be pleased with the student and explain the transcendental subject matter more clearly. A challenging spirit before the spiritual master should be avoided if one is at all interested in learning the Vedic instructions in depth.

COMMENT

So in this verse Maharaja Rahugana is admitting his incapacity to understand the first instructions that he received from Jaḍa Bharata. In fact, he asked Jaḍa Bharata to repeat the whole instruction again. And then after he got a basic idea of the general subject, he would ask about specific topics. In other words, he was eager to understand properly. He was not just making a show. Sometimes we speak to people and they listen and smile, and we ask them, did you understand? And they say, yes. But then later we find out that they didn’t understand anything, they were just being polite and were sitting and smiling and agreeing. So that type of show will not help a person to understand the subject properly. And the real qualification as mentioned here is that Maharaja Rahugana was very eager to understand the subject properly. And this eagerness, this inquisitiveness, is the first requirement for approaching a spiritual master. But that inquisitiveness should be serious about the higher purpose of life. As stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. There are two words in Sanskrit, śreyas and preyas. Śreyas means ultimate good; and preyas means immediate gratification. So when one is inquisitive about the ultimate good, he should approach a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not meant for answering questions about immediate gratification. Of course, immediate gratification could be gross sense gratification or it could even be a subtle gratification of curiosity or, as they say, academic concerns.

In the early days of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada instituted a regular practice among his devotees called iṣṭagoṣṭhī. And in the iṣṭagoṣṭhī, the disciples were supposed to ask whatever questions they had. But he said the questions should be serious, (of course, when you get very deep into it you might have more detailed questions), not how many miles high was Tṛṇavarta demon. But you should ask questions that pertain to understanding the basic principles and practices of Krishna consciousness. And the devotees were very new. So there was a question, “Where they would get the answers to the devotee’s questions?” And Srila Prabhupada said, “Iṣṭagoṣṭhī means to repeat what you have heard from the spiritual master.” In other words, no speculation. So even though the devotees were so new, by this process of sincere questions and answers, they were able to make advancement even in the absence of Srila Prabhupada’s personal presence. So, one should be eager and the questions should be about one’s ultimate benefit, śreya uttamam. One should not ask in a challenging mood. Sometimes people ask in a challenging mood to show that they know more than the person they are asking, they know more than the guru. Or they want to find out if the guru knows as much as they do.

When Srila Prabhupada was in Indore, as he often did, he would have visiting hours in the afternoon and people could come and meet him. And he became very disgusted with the people who were coming because they didn’t really want to hear; they had their own opinions. Srila Prabhupada said that they were presenting their opinions. And if he agreed with them they thought, Oh, this guru is very good. He agrees with me. And if he disagreed with them, they will say, “Oh this guru is not good.” So they were polite, but in a polite way they were challenging because they were Indian. But at the first Delhi pandal, there was a young man who challenged Prabhupada in a very rude way, more like, because he was Australian or, not specifically about Australia but you could say western. So he looked like a hoodlum. I don’t know how to translate that in. . . guṇḍās, but it is different there. He was wearing a leather vest and chains, and he had wild long hair and he was very strong and muscular. So right when Srila Prabhupada was giving his talk, this young man tried to climb up onto the stage. And Srila Prabhupada also had some strong disciples and they were ready to keep him down. But Srila Prabhupada said, “No, let him come.” And then he said, “Give him āsana.” They gave him a cushion. And then Prabhupada said, “Give him the microphone.” So then he addressed Srila Prabhupada in a very challenging way. He said, “Have you realized yourself within yourself; have you really realized yourself within yourself?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Yes.” That was the end of that one. So then he said, “How old is the Bhagavad-gītā?” Maybe Prabhupada said, “Five thousand years old,” when he said how old is the Bhagavad-gītā. And then the young man said, “Well actually. . .” then he gave his own date, maybe a more recent date. And Prabhupada said, “That is nonsense.” And then the young man said “Well, so and so and so and so, say that is how old it is.” Then Prabhupada said, “I don’t accept their authority.”

So then he was going back and forth. And then the young man wanted to ask another question, the same back and forth, means arguing in the same challenging mood. And Srila Prabhupada said, “I am not going to answer your question.” And the man said, “No, no, you have to answer my question.” Then Prabhupada said, “No, I am not your servant, I don’t have to answer your question. You answer my question.” And then Prabhupada said, “What is the proper method for understanding the Bhagavad-gītā? And the young man said, “No, you answer my question.” Prabhupada said, “No, you answer my question. I asked first.” And so it was going back and forth and the guy got very belligerent. And Prabhupada motioned, “Okay, you can remove him now.” So Prabhupada’s strong disciples came and lifted him off his āsana and escorted him off the stage.

So this interaction created a sensation, you can imagine in front of twenty thousand people in Connaught Place. It was a very prestigious location and a very prestigious event. And I was to the side in the audience. I was distributing books. But this conversation was so riveting, everyone stopped everything. And they were just listening to what was happening and watching. And as soon as it ended, the audience became polarized. One group said, and I was there amidst them, so I could hear; one group said, “Your guru Maharaja lost his temper, he shouldn’t have lost his temper. Your guru Maharaja didn’t answer his question; he should have answered his question.” And they got up and they were surrounding us. It was like their anger was being vented on us. And then the other ones, they were sitting, wanting to hear what Prabhupada would say next. And Prabhupada proceeded to discuss the proper method for understanding the Bhagavad-gītā, as mentioned here in the purport, tad viddhi praṇipātena. First you surrender, paripraśnena—and then you ask questions, and sevayā - and then you render service. That is the method. Not coming up like everything and you can challenge anyone.

So, there had been some politicians involved in the organization of the pandal. And they had the idea that by being associated with the pandal, with Srila Prabhupada and the movement, that they would gain political popularity. And the disciples asked Srila Prabhupada. They said, “You know Srila Prabhupada, these politicians, they may not genuinely want to help us but they want to be seen with us, so religious people who are the types who would come to the pandal would vote for them.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “We don’t mind if someone takes advantage of us as long as we don’t lose.” And everyone agreed we weren’t really losing from having them, help with the organization, and come on stage and make announcements. So they continued. But when this happened, some of them also got upset because they felt that the people who were turning against Prabhupada, might also turn against them because they were supporting Prabhupada. So as I mentioned, there was this group of angry, dissatisfied people gathering around us. And it was quite tense so we were gravitating towards the side of the stage, towards the back, and joining forces with each other. And one of these politicians, he just said to Malati that, “Your guru Maharaja has spoiled everything.” And Malati replied, “My guru Maharaja hasn’t spoiled anything.” And she slapped him in the face. And I was pretty new, I had never seen anything like that before. But actually I felt good about it. I felt that she was showing her guru niṣṭhā, her strong faith and devotion to Srila Prabhupada.

And when you read in the scripture what you are supposed to do if someone blasphemes the Lord or a pure devotee, that was mild. She didn’t cut out his tongue, just gave him a little slap. So this basic question, what is the method for learning the Bhagavad-gītā, was it the spiritual science? This should come first. You could imagine what it looked like from the stage, twenty thousand people sitting, dressed pretty nicely, pious people, listening and agreeing. But when it really came out, different people showed their colors in different ways. And Prabhupada was not for making a show that, “Okay, I will be the good guru and I will sit on the seat and give some nice sounding talk. And they can be like the good disciples and sit politely and smile and agree with everything.”

I remember one humorous little incident in Madras. I went with a small group. I should say a small group of us went; we were the first devotees to go to Madras. And I was meeting the biggest people there. And one of the parties owned the TBS group, and T.T Narasimhan. So he had a program; he had this beautiful mansion, with a garden near the ocean. And so in that particular configuration of devotees Achyutananda Swami, he was the swami and he would give the talks. It was very glamorous, this beautiful white mansion and then the garden perfectly manicured with flowers and bushes and fountains and statues. It was very heavenly. And then afterwards, we were mingling with the people. There was one very aristocratic looking gentleman who comes up to me and wants to discuss more. And he said, “As the Swami said in his talk, it is all one.” Now, that is not at all what Achyutananda Swami said, quite to the contrary. But his head was so full of his own ideas he couldn’t hear. It was filtered, if you want to call it, it was filtered in such a distorted way that he heard what he wanted to hear, or maybe he didn’t hear anything. And maybe he just assumed that that is what Achyutananda Swami would say, and he is making some social, intellectual, philosophical, spiritual talk with me. So there are so many anomalies in this process of hearing, inquiring and hearing. But it all comes down to eagerness to hear for one’s ultimate good, that is what it comes to. And if we don’t have that, the process will not be effective.

That said Srila Prabhupada and his followers do speak to people who are not necessarily inquisitive into their ultimate good, in the hopes that by hearing they can become inquisitive into their own good. At the end of the Bhagavad-gītā Krishna says that this science should not be explained to those who are envious or not austere. And basically, it is for devotees. But Srila Prabhupada says, sometimes a preacher who knows the heart of the Lord, ultimately the Lord wants everyone to come to Him, he will take a risk and speak in an open audience where there may be people who are not austere and who may in fact be envious, but they take the risk because they know how important it is to Krishna to get His lost children back to Him. And therefore, sometimes Prabhupada did meet challengers, we meet challengers. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, all the acharyas who preach in a big way meet challengers. And although in certain contexts, an advanced devotee may not want to argue, like when dig-vijay, the champion, the scholar, and debater came to Vrindavan and he would challenge. Sanatana Gosvami and Rupa Gosvami, they didn’t want to waste their time. He just wanted to establish that he is the champion, he is the best. They signed, “Okay, you defeated me. You are happy now; okay you defeated me.” But then when they came to Jiva Gosvami, he also wasn’t in the mood to argue, just for the sake of arguing and defeating someone. But for him, it was a matter of the honor of his gurus; Rupa and Sanatana, that this character was going around, “Oh, I defeated Rupa Gosvami; I defeated Sanatana Gosvami.” So he took up the challenge, not because he wanted to show that he was a better scholar or debater but because he didn’t want this person to go around falsely claiming he had defeated his gurus.

So it may be that at a certain stage a preacher will not pursue an argument further. I think of one case again from the earlier days when Srila Prabhupada was preaching in America. And one fellow in the audience said, because Prabhupada was saying if you don’t become Krishna conscious you could take birth in a lower species, and so he was like, “Well, what is the harm? To take birth and look like a cat or dog or hog.” And Prabhupada patiently tried to explain but the person was so stubborn, he just kept arguing. And finally, Prabhupada said, “Okay, you have my blessings. You can become a pig in your next life.” So many cases. But preaching is the best way to become Krishna conscious. Srila Prabhupada said in a lecture in Calcutta that when you preach, people will have questions, they will challenge you. And to get the answers you have to surrender to Krishna; you have to pray to Krishna to give you the answer. And so it is the best way to be Krishna conscious. You are always thinking of Krishna, praying to Krishna. And by śravaṇam kīrtanam—you repeat what you heard. And by repeating the subject becomes more clear and more realized. But here, Maharaja Rahugana being a king, he was so genuine and Jaḍa Bharata was playing the part of this dull person, just externally but he humbled himself. Praṇipātena—surrender. It means being humble and that is really the first requirement. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives examples of very big people which attracts our attention. And for a king to humble himself before someone who had been his palanquin carrier, means very humble and very eager to learn. Eager to learn means you are humble, eager to learn means you think, I am in trouble and I don’t know how to get out of trouble. So you realize you don’t know the answer but you need help.

So that should be our mood because we are in trouble. We are in the material world; we have a material body. We might think like King Rahugana at one stage, “I am fine, I am a king, I have my wealth and my servants and my power.” But actually, anything can be taken away in a moment. None of us is in a secure position. But we want to be. We are always afraid. You are always afraid. Most of what a person does is based on fear; fear of losing his money, fear of losing his reputation, fear of losing his health. . .  But by surrendering to Krishna, abhaya-caraṇa, by taking shelter the lotus feet of Krishna, one becomes fearless. And this is the method.

Hare Krishna.

So it is almost nine. I guess we could maybe take one question. Yes.

Devotee: Thank you. I have two questions.

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: You mentioned that iṣṭagoṣṭhī, while explaining iṣṭagoṣṭhī you said that Srila Prabhupada said that means that one should repeat the words of the spiritual master and not speculate. Can one adjust, being innovative, according to time place and circumstances, according to the audience?

Giriraj Swami: Well, yes. Srila Prabhupada said realization means that one should be able to present the same principles but in a novel way, that is interesting to the audience. But one never thinks that one has surpassed the previous authorities or one knows more than they know or is better than they are. But yes, one can do that. Every acharya has done that.

Devotee: And every morning when we chant the guru-puja prayers, one of the lines is Divya-jñāna hṛde prokāśito, like revealed. So is the mercy of the spiritual master the only way to gain knowledge through revelation from the heart or by teachings of the spiritual master is the only way to gain knowledge in that?

Giriraj Swami: Well, if one has a spiritual master then one understands that the other processes are based on the spiritual master’s mercy. So, one can get knowledge by doing service but that is also by the grace of the guru. One can get knowledge by associating with advanced devotees but that is also by the grace of the guru. One can get knowledge by chanting the holy names, one can get knowledge by studying the scripture. But it is based on the guru’s mercy. And if one becomes offensive towards the guru, then one can lose the other mercy that one is getting from other sources.

Devotee: Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Grantharaja Shrimad Bhāgavatam ki jaya!

Gaura Premānande.