BG 3.37 – Transforming Lust Back into Love

Giriraj Swami: 

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Text Thirty-seven, which we shall discuss in more detail is an answer to the question raised in Text Thirty-six. So first I will read,

TEXT 36

arjuna uvāca

atha kena prayukto ‘yaṁ

pāpaṁ carati pūruṣaḥ

anicchann api vārṣṇeya

balād iva niyojitaḥ

TRANSLATION

Arjuna said: O descendant of Vṛṣṇi, by what is one impelled to sinful acts, even unwillingly, as if engaged by force?

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

A living entity, as part and parcel of the Supreme, is originally spiritual, pure, and free from all material contaminations. Therefore, by nature he is not subject to the sins of the material world. But when he is in contact with the material nature, he acts in many sinful ways without hesitation, and sometimes even against his will. As such, Arjuna’s question to Kṛṣṇa is very sanguine, as to the perverted nature of the living entities. Although the living entity sometimes does not want to act in sin, he is still forced to act. Sinful actions are not, however, impelled by the Supersoul within, but are due to another cause, as the Lord explains in the next verse.

COMMENT

So the question is quite clear, the only word that might require some discussion is pāpaṁ which is translated as sin. Pāpaṁ really means to transgress the laws of nature or  the laws of God. Just like crime by definition means an act which is against the laws of the state. So pāpaṁ or sin is an act which is against the laws of God. So we all have experience in small and big ways of making some resolution with all good intentions and then breaking it. We might resolve to go to bed early and get up early, or not to overeat, or sleep too much, not to become angry and lose our tempers with someone. And they could even be more major like giving up taking intoxicants, eating meat, whatever. But although we have that intention something overcomes us and we do the exact same thing that we resolve not to do. So what is the cause? That is Arjuna’s question. Here is Krishna’s answer.

TEXT 37

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
kāma eṣa krodha eṣa
rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ
mahāśano mahā-pāpmā
viddhy enam iha vairiṇam

TRANSLATION

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring sinful enemy of this world.

COMMENT

So before we continue who can tell me what Arjuna’s question was? We just read it. What was Arjuna’s question? Yes?

Devotee: Why do we sin; what is the cause of our sins?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that was the basic question and then there is a little more to it. Something we experienced that gave rise to the question. Steve?

Devotee: What forces [Unintelligible] compelled to act in a certain way even against, even causes by force.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that is the question. And now what is the answer?

Devotee: Lust to contact material world.

Giriraj Swami: Lust? Is that what you say?

Devotee: Yes, lust and contact in the material world.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, Correct.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

When a living entity comes in contact with the material creation, his eternal love for Kṛṣṇa is transformed into lust, in association with the mode of passion.

COMMENT

The Caitanya-caritāmṛta defines both lust and love. And it says that love is the desire to give pleasure to Krishna, and lust is the desire to gratify one’s own senses. So that original desire to satisfy Krishna’s senses becomes changed into the selfish desire to gratify our own senses in contact with?

Devotee: The mode of passion.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, the material world and specifically the mode of passion.

PURPORT (continued)

When a living entity comes in contact with the material creation, his eternal love for Kṛṣṇa is transformed into lust, in association with the mode of passion. Or, in other words, the sense of love of God becomes transformed into lust, as milk in contact with sour tamarind is transformed into yogurt.

COMMENT

How many people here have ever made yogurt? It is a good experience. Yes, it is basically milk and it comes in contact with some agent and by that contact the milk is transformed into yogurt.

PURPORT (continued)

Then again, when lust is unsatisfied, it turns into wrath; wrath is transformed into illusion, and illusion continues the material existence. Therefore, lust is the greatest enemy of the living entity, and it is lust only which induces the pure living entity to remain entangled in the material world. Wrath is the manifestation of the mode of ignorance; these modes exhibit themselves as wrath and other corollaries.

Giriraj Swami: What is a corollary?

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: No.

Devotee: Accompanying qualities.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, something that comes along with something else.

Devotee: Like a packaged deal.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, but the corollaries are secondary. So wrath is the manifestation of the mode of ignorance. Yes, now I am not sure how much background you all have in relation to the three modes of material nature, goodness, passion, and ignorance. Have you heard those terms? Can you explain them?

Devotee: Ignorance, passion and what is the third one?

Giriraj Swami: Goodness.

Devotee: Goodness. Ignorance is not knowing. It is innocent, not knowing. Goodness is our nature. And passion, passion is what we want, what we lust for, what we want.

Giriraj Swami: Those are good answers. So coming back to the original Sanskrit; sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, and tama-guṇa. So sattva-guṇa which is translated as goodness, is the mode of illumination. In the mode of goodness one is peaceful, tolerant, and able to understand transcendental knowledge. Passion like you said is desire, that is the prominent feature the mode of passion, desire, which could be gross sexual desire or any desire for material things. And ignorance in this context, tama-guṇa, ignorance is like the mode of darkness. And people who are in the mode of darkness or tama-guṇa they are lazy but prone to take intoxicants, daydreaming, yes just like that.

So now everything in the material creation is a combination of the three modes. And in relation to the living entity the three modes compete with each other for control of the living entity. And it happens all the time. The alarm clock rings, it is time to get up to go to the temple. And our mind under the influence of the mode of darkness will tell us, “You are tired, it is much cozier in bed. You don’t have to get up and shower and get dressed and go to the temple.” And then there is another voice that says, “No you should get up, you will feel so much better. If you stay in bed when you get up you will feel lousy, you will feel bad but if you get up even though it is a little austere, but when you actually go to the temple you will feel so good and you feel good about yourself that you did it.” So we always have these conflicting influences. But still generally, although at any particular time one mode will be more predominant, but in a person’s life at a particular time of his life, he tends to be in one or the other. You can see it in say, I don’t know what you have here but it is like the bums on Skid Road. They are in the mode of ignorance; drunk because they don’t work, they just. . . and then passionate like businessmen. Morning and night they are thinking how to make money, increase their profits. And mode of goodness is not very common, it is quite rare. Mode of goodness is very rare actually. We are working on that here. So you find some examples here. But in the regular world you find people who are touched with goodness, but overall there are few people, altruistic people who work for the welfare of others. But if their welfare work is for the body that is the mode of passion. But if the welfare work is for spiritual upliftment and their concept of spiritual upliftment is genuine then that is the mode of goodness.

PURPORT (continued)

Wrath is the manifestation of the mode of ignorance; these modes exhibit themselves as wrath and other corollaries. If, therefore, the mode of passion, instead of being degraded into the mode of ignorance, is elevated to the mode of goodness by the prescribed method of living and acting, then one can be saved from the degradation of wrath by spiritual attachment.

COMMENT

So everything in the material world is influenced by these three modes. And say the early hours when devotees rise, beginning at four o’clock, and they chant and worship in the temple, and hear scripture; so those early hours are in the mode of goodness. Then the day time hours when generally people are busy making money, those are hours are in the mode of passion. And the night time is in the mode of ignorance. But Krishna Consciousness is transcendental. One can be Krishna conscious at any time of day and night. But because we are still prone to be influenced by the modes, Srila Rupa Gosvami and other acharyas were like, a devotee should act in the mode of goodness. So this prescribed method of acting and living that includes rising early, sleeping through sunrise considered very inauspicious. Then eating, there is foods. Foods in the mode of goodness, foods in the mode of passion, foods in the mode of ignorance. The Bhagavad-gītā describes foods that are juicy, sweet, nourishing, are in the modes of goodness. Foods that are too spicy, too pungent, are in the modes of passion. And food that are old, stale, fermented are in the mode of ignorance. So we want to eat food that is in the mode of goodness.

Then in terms of personal behavior, the mode of goodness means honesty, truthfulness. Lying, and cheating, well cheating is mixed modes of passion and ignorance. There is a little passion because you cheat to get something, so there is that desire. But you are going against the laws of God and engaging in sinful activities that brings reactions, so that is the mode of ignorance. So generally, mode of goodness means a vegetarian diet and there are many details. But the basic idea is that by living, Srila Prabhupada says here, “If, therefore, the mode of passion, instead of being degraded into the mode of ignorance, is elevated to the mode of goodness by the prescribed method of living and acting,” which is being taught and followed here. “then one can be saved from the degradation of wrath by spiritual attachment.” Usually we think of attachment as material attachment, as something negative that keeps us to the material world. But if we become attached to Krishna and service to Krishna that elevates us and takes us to the spiritual world because the living entity by nature has to be attached. We are not like stones with no feeling. We have to be attached. If we are attached to Krishna then we naturally become detached from maya, and if we are too attached to maya we can’t become attached to Krishna. But by this method one can become attached to Krishna.

PURPORT (continued)

The Supreme Personality of Godhead expanded Himself into many for His ever-increasing spiritual bliss, and the living entities are parts and parcels of this spiritual bliss.

COMMENT

So, ekam bahu syām, that one became many. And why? To increase His pleasure. The absolute truth or Krishna is by nature blissful. Ānandamayo ‘bhyāsāt. But it is also described that He is unlimited but He is always expanding. So just like in ordinary terms a couple may want to have a child. Why do they want to have a child? Because they feel that the addition of the child to the family will bring more happiness to them. So Krishna, He expands Himself into many to increase His bliss. And His expansion, expanded parts and parcels- the living entities are meant to share in His bliss. It is reciprocal.

PURPORT (continued)

The living entities also have partial independence.

COMMENT

Yes, Krishna, He has complete independence and the living entities being part and parcel of Krishna have partial independence.

PURPORT (continued)

but by misuse of their independence, when the service attitude is transformed into the propensity for sense enjoyment, they come under the sway of lust. This material creation is created by the Lord to give facility to the conditioned souls to fulfill these lustful propensities, and when completely baffled by prolonged lustful activities, the living entities begin to inquire about their real position.

COMMENT

This is actually the distinction between a human being and an animal. An animal simply engages in eating, sleeping, mating, and defending without ever questioning why he is suffering. Everyone in the material world suffers but the animals have no capacity to question why they are suffering or how to put an end to their suffering. They want to avoid it; like any living entity they want to avoid suffering. But they are not able to understand why they are suffering but a human being can. In fact, when a living entity’s intelligence awakens and asks the question that, “I don’t want to suffer, why am I forced to suffer and how can I get out of suffering,” then he is considered a human being. And that question arises after one has tried to enjoy the material world and been frustrated, which everyone is. But some people just keep doing the same thing thinking that they can get it. They made some mistake in the way they were trying to get material happiness. But if they correct the mistake they made in their approach to getting material happiness they can get material happiness. That is the illusion. And therefore we find people who marry, divorce; marry, divorce; marry, divorce.

My godbrother Bhurijana Prabhu told a story of one man. He married one woman, it didn’t work out. He thought, All right, maybe I will get happiness the next time. He married a second woman, didn’t find happiness. Divorced her; married a third one, didn’t find happiness, divorced her. Married the fourth one, didn’t find happiness, divorced her. Married the fifth one, didn’t find happiness, divorced her. Thought he might be able to make it work with the number four one, so he remarried the number four thinking this time they might be able to find happiness. That didn’t work, divorced her again for the second time. And he is still alive, we don’t know. So, he hasn’t understood that there is a fundamental misconception in trying to enjoy materially. So people always say, “If I just get the right wife or husband, just get the right job, just get the right amount of money, that they will be happy. But it doesn’t work because the living entity by nature is spiritual and he can never be satisfied by anything material. He can only be satisfied in his original position, in loving relationship with Krishna. So when after being frustrated, which everyone is, but when after being frustrated he questions why; why am I suffering, what is the way to make a permanent solution? Then he is considered a human being and a candidate for Krishna consciousness.

PURPORT (continued)

This inquiry is the beginning of the Vedānta-sūtras, wherein it is said, athāto brahma-jijñāsā: one should inquire into the Supreme.

COMMENT

Athāto actually means therefore, and the Vedic authorities say that therefore means therefore once you come to the human form of life. Therefore athāto brahma-jijñāsā: one should inquire into the Supreme, into the absolute truth.

PURPORT (continued)

And the Supreme is defined in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as janmādy asya yato ‘nvayād itarataś ca, or, “The origin of everything is the Supreme Brahman.” Therefore the origin of lust is also in the Supreme.

COMMENT

Why is the origin of lust also in the Supreme? Logically, why is the origin of lust also in the supreme?

Devotee: He is untouchable.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, he is the origin of everything. so he is also the origin of lust.

PURPORT (continued)

“The origin of everything is the Supreme Brahman.” Therefore the origin of lust is also in the Supreme. If, therefore, lust is transformed into love for the Supreme, or transformed into Kṛṣṇa consciousness – or, in other words, desiring everything for Kṛṣṇa – then both lust and wrath can be spiritualized.

COMMENT

One of our great acharyas, Narottama dasa Thakura, has explained kāma Kṛṣṇa arpaṇaṁ, that kāma—lust or desire can be engaged in Krishna’s service by desiring everything for Krishna. And anger can be engaged in the service of the Lord by becoming angry with demons who are putting impediments in the way of the service of the Lord. And like this, different what we would call bad qualities in ordinary terms can be dovetailed in the service of the supreme and then they are no longer bad but they become good. Because Krishna is all good.

PURPORT (continued)

Hanumān, the great servitor of Lord Rāma, exhibited his wrath by burning the golden city of Rāvaṇa, but by doing so he became the greatest devotee of the Lord.

COMMENT

Two days ago we celebrated Rama-navami, the Appearance Day of Lord Ramachandra. Who can tell us who Lord Ramachandra is, existentially? 

Devotee: He is an incarnation of Lord Krishna and His purpose in coming to the material world was to show the example of an ideal human being or an ideal king.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead and He expands Himself into different forms and in different categories of forms. But one category is called viṣṇu-tattva, and they are God but just in different forms. And the Brahma-saṁhitā gives the example that if you have a candle and from that flame you can light a second candle. And from that candle you can light a third, and from that fourth. So it is the same fire. They all have the same power, candle power. But still there is one original candle and that is Krishna. So Rama is Krishna. He is the Personality of Godhead. But Krishna was acting as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and Rama was acting as the ideal human being. So it is a long story but there is a powerful demon named Rāvaṇa. Again demon is the English translation but the Sanskrit word would be rakshasa, so who can give the definition of rakshasa?

Devotee: I was just listening to Prabhupada. He said demon doesn’t mean ugly. He said someone who is going against God. He gave the example of Hanuman. Hanuman, he was a monkey, so he wasn’t very pretty person. Or as Rāvaṇa, he was described to be beautiful.

Giriraj Swami: So someone who goes against God? But sometimes they are very ugly. Yes most of them are very ugly but not all. That is true.

So this this demon was very powerful. And Lord Rama being the Personality of Godhead was married to Sita who is His pleasure potency. Just as we have Radha and Krishna, like all the Personalities of Godhead. At least the ones who are playing the parts of Kshatriyas or vaishyas, They have Their energies who are in the form of Vedics [Unintelligible] who for whom They have eternal love. So Sita was the most beautiful woman in the world. And when Rāvaṇa heard the description of Sita’s beauty he devised a plan to kidnap Her. And so he abducted Her and took Her to his kingdom which was fabulously wealthy. Prabhupada mentioned it was made of gold; there was an abundance of gold. And because Rama was playing like a human being He didn’t show His omniscience that He knew where She was or His omnipotence. But He played the part of a king and a husband. So when Sita was abducted, as She was being taken away She dropped little parts of Her jewelry. And so Rama and His allies, they were searching through the jungle trying to find where She went. And finally they understood that Rāvaṇa had taken Her South and ultimately taken Her across the ocean to Lanka. And because this took place thousands of years ago there weren’t airplanes and those things. But anyway Hanuman, he had supernatural powers and he could. . . actually just layers and layers of meaning to this. How much time do we have? Anyway this Rāvaṇa was so powerful that he was actually causing a disturbance in the whole universe. And you know about demigods? Do you know about demigods? You know; you definitely know.

Devotee: Yes, have God that person [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Well, there are planets in the Universe, the Earth isn’t the only planet as you know. And some are higher and some are lower. And the inhabitants of the higher planets enjoy a standard of life far beyond what we can imagine here. And their musical abilities, their artistic abilities, their intelligence, their beauty, their prowess are far beyond that of earthlings. And they control the affairs of the Universe. Krishna is compared to the king, and the demigods are compared to ministers of the king. So Indra is in charge of rainfall, Varuna is in charge of the waters, Vayu is in charge of wind, Vivasvan is in charge of the sun. And like that, they are in charge of all the affairs of the Universe. It is not that things just happen haphazard by chance, there is an order and there are people who maintain the world.

So, there is a king named Dasaratha. He was a wonderful king and all of his citizens were very happy. And they loved him like the father and he loved them like his children. Everyone was happy and everything was nice. But the only problem was that he didn’t have a son and he was getting old. So he had received the benediction that if he performed the sacrifice tradition he could get a son. And rather Vishnu would appear as his son. He performed the sacrifice and Vishnu appeared. But during these sacrifices from Treta-yuga, when the recommended method was sacrifice, so demigods, the principal demigods are offered shares of the sacrificial offerings. So they came and they were all in distress because of Rāvaṇa. And eventually Vishnu himself appeared; the Supreme Lord, which is another name of Krishna, another form of Krishna. And He said that He would appear as the son of Dasaratha. And as the son of Dasaratha He would kill Rāvaṇa. But He wanted the demigods to assist Him. And He told the demigods that they would have to expand themselves into forms on the planet Earth and come with their full powers as demigods. And they should be prepared to cooperate with Lord Vishnu who came as Rama. And be prepared even to give up their lives in that cause of killing Rāvaṇa. And He told them that they should take birth as Vanaras. Vanaras are forest dwellers, something like monkeys but they are not ordinary monkeys, the main ones they were actually demigods.

So Hanuman was actually the son of Pavan, the wind-god, and others also. So Hanuman he had these supernatural powers that demigods had. And one problem here is that hearing some narration like this one could think, Oh this is just some myth, this isn’t real. This is just like the Lord of the Rings or something somebody made up. And if we have that attitude we can’t make any spiritual progress. I mean we can but we can’t make much spiritual progress. And the idea is that there are four ages that repeat in cycles like the four seasons. And first is Satya-yuga, that is the best you could say. And Treta-yuga that was when Lord Rama appeared. Then Dvapara-yuga which was when Lord Krishna appeared. And now we are in Kali-yuga which is when Lord Chaitanya appeared. And as the ages progress the people become diminished. Roughly speaking, in Satya-yuga people lived a hundred thousand years, in Treta-yuga, ten thousand years, in Dvapara-yuga thousand years and in Kali-yuga hundred years. We don’t even live to hundred; it is very rare. So when we hear about the events in Dvapara-yuga and even more so in Treta-yuga, one might think, This is fantastic. It is just like somebody made this up. It is mythology, it is not real. But if we understand our position in Kali-yuga we are just very diminished. Of course now the world is smaller but say, a hundred years ago or two hundred years ago, a bushman in Africa, if you told him what it is like in America, it sounds fantastic. There are airplanes. And just because he has no experience of this it sounds fantastic. It can’t be true. So we are like that. But unless we are all on the same page with this, it won’t be very useful to continue with this narration. So where do we stand on this? I mean are you ready to at least tentatively accept this as historical fact?

Devotee: We already do.

Giriraj Swami: You already do. And just behind Kapil? Okay. Alright.

So Rāvaṇa abducted Sita and took Her to Lanka. And Rama made alliances with the Vanaras, the monkeys in the jungle and they were moving South trying to find Sita and eventually they came to the southern tip of the India. Then they understood that Rāvaṇa had taken Her across the ocean to Lanka. And because He was playing the part of a human being, how to cross the ocean? It was like an army; they were going to attack Rāvaṇa. There was a whole army. So to begin Rama sent Hanuman because he had that power to fly. Not exactly fly like a bird but he had the power to jump great distances. So he jumped over to Lanka. And he assumed by his mystic powers, you could say, he assumed a very small form, like a little insignificant creature no one paid any attention to. And he entered Rāvaṇa’s palace. And he went from room to room looking for Sita and he couldn’t find Her. Then eventually he found a garden with ashoka trees and he found Her there in a very pitiful state. And so he was just watching. And then Rāvaṇa himself came in and said, “I have been waiting long enough, I want you to marry me and share in all of my riches. Don’t refuse me. Rama cannot do anything to save you. And I will be back very soon to hear your answer. Otherwise, I can’t say what will happen to you.”

And She said, “I will never marry you. I belong eternally to Rama and you should return Me to Rama with dignity. Otherwise you and your whole dynasty will be finished.” That made him even more angry. He was very arrogant. And then there were rakshasis, those are female rakshasas. And they were taunting her, “You should marry him, he will make you his queen, you will enjoy all the wealth of Lanka.” Eventually they all wandered off. And then Hanuman came out. And Rama had given Her His ring so that She would know that He was actually a messenger of Rama and not one of Rāvaṇa’s agents pretending to be a friend. And he gave Her the news of Rama and She was overjoyed and accepted that Rama is coming with an army and he will liberate Her. At first he said, “You come on my shoulders and I will take you back to Rama. She said, “No, I don’t want to escape secretly. I want Rama to come and take Me with dignity.” And then She gave him one of Her ornaments so that he could show to Rama that She was. . .

So then, Hanuman was so angry. Now we are coming to this point of using anger in the service of the Lord. So Hanuman is so angry that he began to uproot all the ashoka trees and create havoc in one of Rāvaṇa’s personal gardens. So then all the guards came and they fought with Hanuman. He was defeating all of them. And finally one of Rāvaṇa’s generals came personally. Somehow they managed to subdue Hanuman and then they brought him before Rāvaṇa. And Rāvaṇa was ready to kill him. But Rāvaṇa had a brother named Vibhishan who was a devotee. Although he was born in the same family but he was actually a devotee. And he said, “He is the messenger, it is against the rules of warfare to kill the messenger. You can’t do this.” He said, “All right, then we will humiliate him and set fire to his tail.” So at that stage Hanuman expanded himself in size. And they tied him up with ropes and they put cloth on his tail and soaked it in kerosene or whatever they used, oil. And they were parading him down the street to be an object of ridicule. And all the demons in Lanka, they were all on the streets and they were watching the fun. And then they set fire to Hanuman’s tail.

So then Hanuman shrunk in size to his normal size. So all the ropes that were binding him was too loose. He just slipped out of the ropes. And with his tail on fire he started leaping from rooftop to rooftop, setting fire to all the houses in Lanka. And the crowd which was following him and mocking him and ridiculing him, they were totally overcome by panic. It was like some science fiction movie or something. But this isn’t scientific. And yes, they started scattering and they didn’t know what to do. The whole Lanka was ablaze. And then Hanuman went to the ocean and put his tail in the ocean, and extinguished the fire and jumped back to Rama. So this is an example of using anger in the service of the Lord. It is not that anything is excluded from Krishna consciousness. Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami in Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that in this material world good and bad are just mental concoctions. Nothing is good and nothing is bad or everything is bad. And the only thing that is good is Krishna consciousness, things that are related to Krishna consciousness. But otherwise materially there is no good or bad. We just imagine something is good or something is bad.

In 1971 in India Srila Prabhupada had a huge pandal program right in the center of Delhi, almost like Times Square, two blocks from Times Square in Delhi. And yes, twenty thousand people were coming; thirty thousand, forty thousand. And afterwards I think an American young man, somehow he had come to the programs and afterwards he met Srila Prabhupada, and he was very moved by the whole experience. And he said, “Srila Prabhupada, if only the people of the world could take to Krishna consciousness everyone would love one another and there would be no more hatred or anger.” Srila Prabhupada was not sentimental, but Srila Prabhupada replied, “Anger? Did someone tell you there is something wrong with anger? What is wrong with anger?” And then he said that Krishna spoke the entire Bhagavad-gītā just to make Arjuna angry. Arjuna didn’t want to fight. Do you know the background of the Bhagavad-gītā? In essence Krishna wanted Arjuna to fight against the forces of evil and establish goodness. But those evil persons were his cousins. They were his family members, extended family members and he didn’t want to fight. They had actually usurp the kingdom. And for himself Arjuna didn’t even really care about the kingdom. But Krishna wanted the righteous Pandava brothers to rule and He wanted them to take the credit for winning the battle.

So Arjuna didn’t want to fight. He said I would rather live as a mendicant than enjoy at the expense of my family members, loved ones. So Krishna spoke the Bhagavad-gītā to sort of lift him above the bodily concept of life and to realize that the ultimate good was to surrender to the will of Krishna, not with his own mental conceptions, thinks this is good and this is bad. And Srila Prabhupada said that you cannot fight and kill people if you are not angry. So Krishna spoke the whole Bhagavad-gītā just to make Arjuna angry. So the idea is anything can be used in the service of the Lord and if it is, it is spiritual. And the same thing if it is used outside of Krishna consciousness or God consciousness it is material. Of course our experience of anger in the material world is pretty much material anger which is bad, as we have been reading. But that same anger can be used in the service of the Lord and then it becomes spiritual. And sometimes as we make progress it could be mixed, but that is a technical detail. Okay.

PURPORT (continued)

If, therefore, lust is transformed into love for the Supreme, or transformed into Kṛṣṇa consciousness – or, in other words, desiring everything for Kṛṣṇa – then both lust and wrath can be spiritualized. Hanumān, the great servitor of Lord Rāma, exhibited his wrath by burning the golden city of Rāvaṇa, but by doing so he became the greatest devotee of the Lord. Here also, in Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord induces Arjuna to engage his wrath upon his enemies for the satisfaction of the Lord. Therefore, lust and wrath, when they are employed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, become our friends instead of our enemies.

COMMENT

So now why like a concluding sentence, the concluding words of the concluding sentence, the most powerful position in the purport, in the paragraph, in the three paragraphs where does this idea like they become our friends instead of our enemies? Where does that category friends and enemies come from?

Devotee: Mind.

Giriraj Swami: No, no, no he is saying that lust and wrath when engaged in the service of the Lord become our friends instead of our enemies. Let us go back to the verse, to the translated verse. Arjuna asked by what is one impelled to act simply even as it begets one’s own will. What was the answer?

Devotee: What is in the something of the material world?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. There is more to it. I will read it again.

TEXT 37

The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring sinful enemy of this world.

COMMENT

So in the verse Lord Krishna is saying that lust is the enemy. And in the purport Srila Prabhupada is saying yes, lust is the enemy. But if it is used in the service of the Lord it is not our enemy but our friend. So he is relating that to the idea that lust and wrath are our enemies in the original verse. And, now to get to that stage, instead of having selfish desires for our own gratification, desire for Krishna satisfaction. So that consciousness is developed by elevating ourselves from the most attached in the mode of ignorance to the mode of goodness, by right living and acting. And that is a general description. And specifically, the direct spiritual process is saṅkīrtana, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, chanting and hearing the holy names of Krishna, chanting and hearing the transcendental glories of the Lord. That will cleanse the heart of all the dirty things that have come from material association so that our original pure qualities as parts of parcels of Krishna, spiritual entities are revived. Srila Prabhupada gives the example of sparks in a fire. The spark has the same qualities as the big fire but it is just smaller. And a spark can fall out of the fire. And when it does its fiery qualities are extinguished. But that cinder, it goes back into the fire. It becomes fire again and advances in the fire. So somehow we have come away from Krishna, come into material contact and that pure love has become lust. But if we go back to Krishna then that lust can be returned to its original state of pure love. And we can go back by coming in touch with Krishna even here. And we do that through contact with His holy name, form, His pastimes and service. Service to Krishna is also Krishna. And so if we immerse ourselves in these activities that lust which is not our real nature can be purified, returned to its original state of pure love for Krishna.

Hare Krishna.

So are there any questions or comments? Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible] you can engage so many things, you can kind of turn around by engaging your Krishna consciousness like lust and anger. What if we find ourselves feeling envious of someone? Is it possible to use envy to turn envy around in Krishna consciousness?

Giriraj Swami: Well, we come into the material world out of envy of Krishna. That is our root. You have lust and envy there but two sides, precisely same. Once I asked that question to Srila Prabhupada because I felt I was being disturbed by envy. And I could see that it was interfering with my relationships with the other devotees. And I also reasoned that there was no point to it because Krishna is unlimited and His service is unlimited. He can accept unlimited service from unlimited numbers of devotees. So why should I be envious if one devotee had a particular service that I want; is it his unlimited service? So I asked Srila Prabhupada what can we do about envy? What can I do about envy? And Srila Prabhupada asked me, “Can you think of any reasons not to be envious?” And I had already thought of so many reasons, so I said yes. And he said, “All right, so envy means you don’t like someone. And that not liking should not be directed towards devotees but it should be directed towards demons who are always creating havoc in the world and disturbing the devotees and innocent people.”

So by that definition of envious it can be. . . But we do that by preaching. Say, you are a demon [Unintelligible] by preaching, by teaching, by sharing, we exhibit our dislike for them. Not that we dislike them. Prabhupada would quote ‘hate the sin, not the sinner.’ But it is a fact, there are people we don’t like. It is undeniable. So that should be steered away from devotees and towards demons.

Any other questions?

Devotee: So if I am wanting a naturally human being one to have a better spiritual relationship for the sake of my soul, for the sake of my peace in my life, would that not be a selfish reason to seek a better relationship? But is it not the reason that we all do, because we feel like it makes us feel better, it gives sense in a nonsensical world, it gives us faith, but at the end of the day is that not selfish as well?

Giriraj Swami: You are talking about the relationship with Krishna?

That is a very good question. Prahlada Maharaja says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ, which means that people do not know that their real interest is to serve Vishnu or Krishna and go back home back to Godhead. And the explanation is that everyone is thinking of his own or her own self-interest. It is natural. But we have to know what our real self-interest is, which means we have to know what our real self is. But if we know that we are spiritual and part and parcel of the Supreme spirit, Supreme Soul and that our real self-interest is to develop our relationship with the Supreme Soul and that will satisfy all of our hearts desires, then that is proper self-interest. So it is the same principle. Being self-interested is not good or bad but if you think yourself as the body and that your self-interest is to accumulate material things and gratify the senses of the body then that is bad. But if you know that you are spirit soul and part and parcel of the Supreme Soul and that your real self-interest is to revive your eternal relationship with the Supreme Soul, then that is proper self-control. It is quite amazing. The idea that anything in relation to Krishna is good and anything disconnected from Krishna is bad. And so it is completely natural because you don’t have to give up anything. You just have to make the connection with Krishna. There are so many other processes; karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, ashtanga-yoga. A child can’t practice those. How can a child do karma-yoga? They are too little. Or an old person, a dying person, how can they do karma-yoga? How can they do jnana-yoga. A child is just learning read and write, do jnana-yoga and study the Upanishads or ashtanga-yoga, sit in meditation. They can’t do it. But they can do bhakti-yoga like this little one. Her service is to put peanuts in the bag. Do you chant? Not when you are packing. Like ever. Do you ever chant?

Child: I like chanting.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, well we know she chants, she dances, she takes prasāda, she does service. She is agreeing. She does ārati, even. So it is so natural. That is the point it is so natural that anyone in any status of life even a child can do it, even an old person can do it. You can do it on your deathbed. You should, you must, you should actually because it is natural. You don’t have to deny anything.

Hare Krishna. Nice to see you again. You don’t have to deny anything. When I was little and my parents would take me to services, it was like “Oh God. It was so boring,” and I was always restless and fidgeting. But here there are propensities to sing, play, dance, enjoy. We can all be connected to Krishna.

Any other questions or comments? All right so what is next?

Devotee: Do some kirtan.

Giriraj Swami: Did you want to say something or did you just move here?

Devotee: Yes, actually I did. This time. Chanting like japa for instance, how to become more absorbed where one actually feels connected to Krishna and we are getting purified how to get absorbed more in japa. We are practicing chanting here.

Giriraj Swami: That is it; practice. That is the answer. Srila Prabhupada say practice makes perfect, even in spiritual life. So you practice you become perfect.

Any other questions or comments?

Devotee: What drew you into Krishna consciousness? What was your favorite part?

Giriraj Swami: Well it wasn’t quite like that. I can tell you. It is not that I had a favorite part. I accepted the whole thing through Srila Prabhupada. You could say with Srila Prabhupada; with Srila Prabhupada came to whole shebang. I was looking for perfect happiness. I could see there is no perfect happiness in the material world. So I knew I had to find it through some spiritual process. And then by reading about different spiritual processes I understood I needed a guru. So then my quest became to find my guru, perfect master. And then I met many gurus or so-called gurus. I wasn’t satisfied by any of them.

Devotee: That is when [Unintelligible] Srila Prabhupada?

Giriraj Swami: I wouldn’t say that he was the best, I would say he was the one who had perfect knowledge. None of the others did. And I have said children can participate even within the womb, the living entity can participate. Is that right?

Yes, Prahlada Maharaja who I quoted is one of the great authorities. His father was a demon like Rāvaṇa. And his father did not allow him to associate with devotees but he became a devotee. And his father could not understand how it was possible because he was protecting him from devotees. And you can’t become Krishna conscious without the association of devotees. And it turned out that when he was in his mother’s womb there was fighting, a big battle and his mother was taken into custody you could say or given shelter by a great sage. And that great sage instructed his pregnant mother in spiritual knowledge. And he from within the womb heard the instructions. So it is more clearly manifest when they come out. But it is going on right now to the living entities who are going to take birth in devotee families. Or any pregnant woman who comes to the temple their child is getting spiritually benefit because that vibration is entering. You should give your baby lots of, I am sure you are, lots of transcendental vibrations.

Any other questions or comments? Yes, Mother [Unintelligible]

Devotee: You were mentioning how the Lord instructed the demigods to take birth as vanaras. How is that process of living entities arranging to take birth because the soul is within a body, so who arranges for that transfer of the soul to the new bodies? And also in specific locations and he told them where to take birth. Is that an okay question?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa, all living entities take birth according to a higher arrangement. We are not able to determine where we will take birth but there are higher authorities who arrange. So these demigods are the higher authorities that decide who will take birth where so they can decide where they will take birth. And as far as the soul; when you are more elevated the soul has more powers. Even we on earth if we fully develop our yogic siddhis, we can expand into different forms. So Srila Prabhupada said you can ask any question like who, what, when, where, but not how. Because how we don’t know how. If I ask you how is your hair growing? You don’t know how; we can’t answer how. But in the case of Indra, he remained as Indra, but an expansion of him with his full powers took birth as Bali. And he was in a vanara body, monkey-like body and he is considered the son of Indra. Similarly Vivasvan, his son was Sugriva. So they can do things that we can’t do.

Once Prabhupada said inconceivable means you can’t understand it. But just because you can’t understand it doesn’t mean someone else can’t. Someone asked him that question when he was in Pune at a life member’s house and he was saying like. . . Or maybe I will give an example from my own experience when I was new to India. So they sent me, the temple President sent me with Madhudvisa Prabhu to learn how to make life members. So we went to this man’s office and he had already promised to become a life member. And when we went into his office he didn’t want to become a life member anymore. And Madhudvisa Prabhu just to my vision he was just sitting and talking with him. He never said ‘you promised, you can’t go back on your word or no you should become,’ he never said anything. They are just talking, talking about Krishna consciousness, talking about ISKCON. And then the man said okay I will become your life member. He filled in the form and signed the check. So to me it was inconceivable. So afterwards I said what happened you were just sitting and talking with him and then suddenly he decided to become a life member. He said well, you have to be intelligent enough to know what their doubts are without them saying it. And then you have to be able to speak in such a way as to remove their doubts or reservations. So to me it was something mystical, inconceivable, at that stage. But then I learned how to do it myself. So yes, so for us it is inconceivable, for them they know how to do it.

Any other questions or comments?