Tamal Krishna Goswami’s Appearance Day—Carpinteria and Harish, Israel

Host: We are so happy and grateful to you, that we can have your spiritual association, Maharaja. And today we celebrate Tamal Krishna Goswami’s Vyasa-puja. And we were hoping that you could enlighten our hearts with some good kathā.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, and before I do that, can you tell me what you have done so far?

Host: What we did so far today?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Host: We had kirtan and we offered preparations. We had wonderful kirtan and now very fortunate to speak to you.

Giriraj Swami: Oh wait, all you have done so far as kirtan?

Host: We have kirtan, yes, and we had an offering of preparation bhoga to [Unintelligible 00:01:26] brother. And now we were hoping to hear from you, and later on we will read an offering and have the puṣpāñjali. That is our. . . and prasādam.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, you said you are going to read an offering?

Host: Yes, by Guna-avatar Prabhu. That will be later on.

Giriraj Swami: Now, what about translation? How many?

Host: We are good, it will be okay, we can understand you.

Giriraj Swami: Because I would also like to hear at least maybe Guna-avatar’s offering, can that be read in English?

Host: Yes, he can read and I can translate it. Yes, that can be done. Maharaja, we would like to hear from you and perhaps. . .

Giriraj Swami: It is reciprocal. All right, so then you speak. You said you would be very happy to speak. I should speak at the end. All right, well, what we did, is we just took turns but what [Unintelligible 00:03:57].

So, I think everyone knows this is Kalachandji dasa, Srila Tamal Krishna Goswami’s brother, and his wife, Tamal Krishna Goswami’s sister-in-law, Sraddhanjali devi dasi. So, to begin, Kalachandji dasa will say a few words.

Kalachandji dasa: Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, all glories to Srila Gurudeva. I will just say a very few words, I think it would be very nice if you could read Maharaja’s Many Moons book, of course, and see so many pastimes of Srila Gurudeva, and I have just a small contribution there speaking of him as the role of from myself as the younger brother. But I did just want to say how often he spoke to me about coming to Israel and meeting with many of you, and how wonderful and important experience that was for me. In fact, of all the places he visited in the world, that was the one place that he often said to me, “Oh, you must come with me, you really have to visit there, we have to go there together.” And that left a very strong impression on me, and the few of you who I have met in the interim have likewise made such an incredible impression on me and really spoken directly to my heart, and thank you very very much for that. Hare Krishna.

Host: Thank you so much, Kalachandji Prabhu. Please come and visit us.

Kalachandji dasa: Thank you. And please, none of you, please do never hesitate to approach me or my wife in any way. Many times I don’t really have something to say but I am very happy to answer any questions, or especially in writing is maybe a little easier sometimes, or speaking to. But please don’t hesitate or shy away in any respect. I would not even know what to say unless you had some questions. So, we both appreciate your association very much, always.

Host: Thank you so much, Prabhu, Hare Krishna. Guna-avatar Prabhu is asking, anything you would like to tell us about you Srila Gurudeva.

Kalachandji dasa: I hope you are ready for a full day and night sleep also there. I mean just I would say generally, and I think some of you experienced this also, that he was for me, I saw an experience in him only, and personally, directly, I certainly observed him in many circumstances, but my own experience was always of the gentle, soft, loving Tamal Krishna Goswami. He showered me with love literally from my very birth, and I was told that when I was born he claimed me as his own. He said, “He is my call.” And later in his life he also claimed us as his own in other ways and was very, I would say, affectionately possessive in this way. And really from my birth, I see from stories, from his own behavior, from my memories, from pictures I see, extremely loving and affectionate older brother, beyond anything I could ever imagine. And yes, certainly he made, even though he was just nine years old when I was born, almost immediately after and into his adolescence, he was taking care of me as a parent really. And even when I was an infant go so far as to clean me, to change my diapers, and such things that really no New Yorker boy would normally be trained to do or have any desire to do.

And from that time when also very young he gave up all of his stuffed toys, those toys of his that were the closest and most intimate in his possession, and he turned them over to me saying that I was now the baby, I was now the child, he was no longer a little boy anymore but he was grown and taking responsibility of me. And certainly, taught me many things and took many responsibilities over me, even as a child. To me, in my first memories, he seemed all grown up, although in retrospect now I realized he was just a young teenager but he was like a parent, an adult. And all the things that I learned, how to live in the world, how to live in New York City, how to be a boy there playing sports, I learned from him. Always with great affection, I never heard actually a harsh word come from him in my entire life.

Maybe my wife will have a few things as well.

Host: Please, please, yes.

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: He always was very affectionate and loving also to our entire family. With our children they called him uncle Tamal, and he would hold them on his lap when they were little, and he really relished that family time with us. He is the head of our household and I think I saw the early training Kalachandji got in just personal integrity and responsibility, he really passed on in our family and gave us such a good example of that.

I did get to spend one month with him in Cambridge when he was going to school there. I was there to help a museum put up some web exhibits and so I saw him that whole month, and it was a very fun time to see him while he was doing his studies. I am a librarian and we would talk about researching, academic journals, and things like that. And there were so many levels, he is just an amazing person that on every level he was so expert and would talk to you very focused like you were the only person. And I don’t know if any of you had that experience, that you really felt like you were the focus of his attention. But everything from just even in the household in Cambridge, there was one time I was sitting in the living room of Willow House. I don’t know if anyone seen pictures of that; it is a beautiful house in Cambridge that he stayed and then there was a big glass door to the garden and on the other side of the living room was a big yellow Ganesh doll that someone had given him. And one morning when I was chanting a big rat came up to the glass door, very big, and went up on the glass and started tapping the glass. And I was a little alarmed but he wasn’t looking at me even though I was there, he was looking straight at the Ganesh doll, and I thought, This place is very transcendental. Even the servants of Lord Ganesh came to try to serve.

But it turned out that the rats started getting more outside running around, you could see them, and he called out to his servant Sarvabhauma, “Sarvabhauma,” he would call [Unintelligible 00:13:54], “Tell me about the rats.” And Sarvabhauma said, “Well, Srila Gurudeva, I have been feeding them.” So he would be cooking and out the window, he would be throwing food to the rats. And Srila Gurudeva shook his head, highly shake his head and he said, “What are you thinking? And Sarvabhauma said, “Well, they are spirit souls, and they need food.” And Srila Gurudeva, “You must stop feeding the rats, they are overrunning the place.” And Sarvabhauma tried to argue that they too needed prasādam. We were trying to do a plan of what do we do? Do we get a cat? And then we have to feed the cat and then, it is this whole thing. But he was like a general and we lined up and everyone had to give their solution to the problem. And in retrospect, it was hilarious because. . .

Kalachandji dasa: Whenever he had an issue like that, he would convene a council of all the experts, whoever was there.

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: And so even on that level of just a simple domestic problem like that, he showed humor and just like a leader of an army with the rats. It did get resolved. The very next day I found a cat in the driveway just sitting there, and I thought, Oh, Krishna sent a cat. So I picked up the cat and I carried it around the side of the house, and he saw me through his window and he stuck out his head and he said, “What do you have there?” I said, “A cat, a cat has come, has presented himself.” And he said, “Good, put it to work.” So I brought the cat, he was watching out the window, and I brought the cat over. The whole tree and a nest under the tree, and the rats were running over my feet as I was carrying the cat. And the cat was just looking down at them, and I put the cat down in the midst of them, and the cat kind of just backed off a little. And I looked back at Srila Gurudeva, and he had his head out the window and he just shook his head and he closed the window. “The cat is useless,” he told me later. So, that is just one little story of dealing with Gurudeva.

Kalachandji dasa: It seemed that he never gave up on any of us but he always had the realization that actually we are all just hopeless.

Devotee: I have a question, you mentioned Cambridge and you are both involved with academia, and I was wondering what was. . . It seems that Srila Gurudeva had a let us say a sharp turn in a sense or maybe not, at least externally from Vraja to the academic world, and I am wondering what was his vision for devotees? And I mean in terms of devotees and academia, sometimes we hear about maybe a university, that he wanted to establish. We are just curious to know more about Srila Gurudeva’s vision in that field or for that.

Kalachandji dasa: He had also spoken with us about the possibility of university in Mayapur if I remember correctly, and that we would have some involvement in that. But I don’t know really the details of that. I think your question is a very big question and I would not want to, I would not presume that I could understand really Srila Gurudeva’s big vision in this way. I think my understanding is that, like everything else that he did, him entering academia was not a personal preference but what he saw is necessary for his service to Srila Prabhupada. And we can see that in the result of the dissertation as well, but also that like so many things, although he is very expert in it and took to it very quickly the whole academic enterprise. I had been in academia for many years already and it took him just many months, it was like I was the tortoise and he had shot ahead of me as the hare by that point. But that actually it was a great austerity for him as well. That although he took to it his intellect was engaged and he loved to be engaged to have his intellect engaged in many ways. And he saw how he could use the university and academia in the service of Srila Prabhupada and to preach Krishna consciousness.

It was not academia in itself or the university in itself that appealed to him. He was very excited when he first arrived there to be engaged in that way. And his letters when he first arrived in Cambridge are full of excitement, of exuberance, of energy in engaging in the intellectual discourse, and to be able to blend that, to engage that in Krishna consciousness. But actually, his letters, shortly before he went to Mayapur are a very very different tone, and they express much more the austerity of that project in that enterprise. And I think we can see that in many ways in Srila Gurudeva. For instance, that he is known as such a strong, sometimes even heavy guru, but I think by nature he really was very much a man of the heart, very much from the heart, really very soft and loving. But to be a spiritual master required great strength and even he had to, how can I say, engage that aspect of him in that aspect of his personality, more so that too was a service as much as it was something that defined his personality. Because you all know even the loving Gurudeva and if he could have just shown that, wonderful but he also had other service to do as devotee and spiritual master, and I think the two are somewhat similar situations in that respect.

Hare Krishna.

Devotee: Thank you.

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: I think too that he really encouraged us to use our intellect as well. And if we had a leaning toward having the kind of mind that would be able to engage in academia, that he encouraged us to follow and get a degree because then Krishna consciousness would enter into higher levels of society through professional and those kind of intellectual heights. That it would permeate society very well in those sorts of higher levels. That if you could get a job because of a degree in which you can influence that profession however subtly with Krishna consciousness. I think that as part of his big vision too is, he talked to me about wanting to have Krishna conscious people at every level of society, and a certain level of society required academic degrees, and that devotees who were inclined that way should follow that, not falsely renounce that aspect, but you use it in service.

Kalachandji dasa: And that Cambridge, and the university, and academia was a venue for preaching, not that he was getting so much from it but rather he had so much to give, and that was a community of very important and intelligent people to whom we should preach. And what is better preaching than showing that he as a devotee, as a sannyasi, as a spiritual leader in our movement, could not only participate but really advance, succeed, be exemplary in their field as well?

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: Yes, even at dinners, we would have these elaborate dinners for scholars when I was there. And he would have me be like a hostess and pour the tea and do all that thing. But we would get into discussions with these scholars and I think he liked that I was in that world too, and we would talk. But there were certain times in which suddenly I was talking about the nature of material world and that physical objects were also the energy of Krishna, and then I sort of “Oh, maybe I am getting a little too. . .” But later he would say, “Good preaching.” So, that was at that level, I think he was always thinking how can we introduce it, introduce Krishna consciousness, and for them to see devotees who could speak their language.

Kalachandji dasa: And how could he encourage us to advance in our Krishna consciousness in whatever way we can.

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: Yes.

Kalachandji dasa: But there is no question and it is evidenced in the final project there, the dissertation, that it is entirely a glorification of Srila Prabhupada.

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: Absolutely.

Kalachandji dasa: That is the bottom line.

Host: Thank you so much, you are so inspiring. [Unintelligible 00:24:59] speak to. . .

Kalachandji dasa: Yes, please.

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: Please.

Host: Thank you.

Sraddhanjali devi dasi: Hare Krishna.

Host: Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Well, hearing Kalachandji and Sraddhanjali speak, I was reminded of some experiences with Srila Gurudeva, in particular when he visited here and stayed with us in Carpinteria. One day he wanted to go for a walk but he had a knee problem so he didn’t want to walk on the sand of the beach but he wanted to walk near the ocean, so there was a place that fit the description called Butterfly Beach, and at a certain stage the road goes up and so we were in a higher position looking over the cliff to the sand and the ocean. And there was a man with a stick and he was throwing the stick with all of his strength into the ocean and there was a dog who would brave the waves and swim out in the ocean and pick up the stick and bring it back. And as soon as he brought it back the master would again heave that stick with all of his strength as far as he could into the ocean. It was a very wavy day, and the dog would just swim out and face all the waves, break through all the waves, and get the stick and bring it back.

And Srila Gurudeva commented about how the dog didn’t really like to have to swim into the ocean and push through all those waves to get the stick but that he did it for the sake of the master, because he was so loyal to the master. And I found that Srila Gurudeva could understand the psychology of everyone, even animals better, than anyone I ever met, other than Srila Prabhupada. And he really understood the mentality of the dog but I felt that it was actually a perfect description of Srila Gurudeva himself, that Srila Prabhupada was the master and Srila Gurudeva would go into any situation wherever Prabhupada sent him. And even though it was difficult that it wasn’t something that he would have chosen to do for his own sense pleasure, but he did it for the sake of Srila Prabhupada, again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

So, I think that is true and I think what Kalachandji dasa said about his role as a guru, him having to adopt a certain strength in his position is also true. Srila Gurudeva had a disciple named Agavita dasa who lives in Calcutta and the last times that Srila Gurudeva visited Calcutta and Mayapur, Agavita was his personal servant. So, one time, not the very last time but I think the second to the last time when Srila Gurudeva came, Agavita and his boys were making a lot of mistakes, and Srila Gurudeva said to Agavita, “I see everything but if I were to point out all the defects that I see, I would have to assert myself in a certain way which I don’t want to have to do because I have come here for a different purpose.” And he even said that, “I want their last memories of me to be of my softer side rather than my harder side.” So it definitely was an austerity for him but he did it for the sake of service, but at the end, in that situation he felt that it would be better if he didn’t show that side. But he wanted Agavita to know that he was seeing everything, it is not that he was oblivious, he was seeing everything but he was choosing not to assert himself in that way.

And then the last time, of course, Srila Gurudeva went to Mayapur and Agavita was again serving him very personally and intimately. And Srila Gurudeva had some physical difficulties with his health, with his body. And there were things that Srila Gurudeva could have done to ameliorate his condition, to improve his condition, but to do those things it would have become public what his condition was and he didn’t want it to become public because he didn’t want I guess to create concern and anxiety or even doubts in his disciples. And so he told Agavita, because Agavita was saying, “Why don’t you do this? Why don’t you do that? You are suffering so much.” And Srila Gurudeva said, “I have given myself to my disciples and I don’t want to do anything that will cause them to have any doubts about me or to be in anxiety.”

Now, of course, when Srila Gurudeva left, well, that is a whole other topic which we won’t dwell on, but the question arose, naturally, the question arose, why? Why did he have to go? Why did Srila Prabhupada take him? And so I went to that same spot at Butterfly Beach because that, of course, he stayed with me, he sat at the dining table, we chanted in the temple room, we did so many things here, but somehow that place at Butterfly Beach, it is like a Tirtha, it is my place of pilgrimage where I go when I want to feel his presence. So yes, after he left, immediately I went to Dallas for some days but then when I came back I was really struggling with this question. So I went to the same place at Butterfly Beach, and as I mentioned, there is a hill there and at that time my own health wasn’t as strong as it is now because I had a heart condition. So climbing that hill was very strenuous, it was a strenuous exertion. And I also had some other personal question in my mind and I was hoping to get an answer by going there. So, I was walking up the hill and it was hard. At that stage for me it was very hard, but I was prepared to walk the whole distance, whatever it would take to get the answer to my question.

And then without having to climb all the way to the top I got the answer. And then I got the intuition that that was a metaphor for what happened with Srila Gurudeva, that yes, I was prepared to walk all the way to the top, it never occurred to me that I wouldn’t walk all the way to the top, but when I got the answer I realized in that sense I don’t have to walk all the way to the top. And then I had the realization that whatever Srila Gurudeva was meant to learn or teach in this life he had already done, and Srila Prabhupada not wanting him to have to suffer more, although he would have been ready to climb all the way to the top in spite of all the difficulties, but Srila Prabhupada didn’t want him to have to do that, he wanted him to spare him that suffering. So that was a sort of answer, but there was still another question, a subsequent question which was, what was that suffering? And then later when Agavita came to visit me and we had these long talks, then I understood at least what some of that suffering was, it was just a physical suffering caused by his body which he was tolerating.

So I think that again that metaphor of the dog braving the waves and swimming out in the ocean to get the stick and bring it and lay it at the feet of the master. Then the master again throwing it with all its strength into the ocean and again the dog braving all those waves, is very appropriate. It is very appropriate for Srila Gurudeva, and it is an example that we can only try to emulate or hope to emulate. And yes, his example in every sphere is something that we can learn from and try to emulate. But one experience I have had in hearing appreciations of Srila Gurudeva because from time to time we have arranged quite elaborate Vyasa-pujas for Srila Gurudeva here. We have a nice garden outside, and yes, we can accommodate many devotees. And I would hear the glorifications of Srila Gurudeva and I would think, Wow! And just the way he could touch so many different people; the different types of people that would come here you would never expect them to be together. They were together because of their mutual appreciation and love for Srila Gurudeva, but materially they are such different types of people you would never find them together socially. And just the range of his relationships and the range of his abilities which enabled him to really enter deeply into people’s hearts and really draw out their love for Krishna, and at the same time pull out the other stuff that could get in the way of their love for Krishna, it was amazing.

And that is one category, but then there is another category of devotees who may never have even met him in person but whose lives were transformed by hearing from him. One example that was very prominent in South Africa and probably other places, but one example was his videos, God’s Competitor and God’s Demigods and Incarnations. Through those videos he did huge preaching in South Africa even though he never visited there personally. So many people became devotees from those videos. And then his lectures, recorded lectures, there are people who are very attached to Srila Gurudeva. In fact, they were so attached to him I assumed they must have known him personally, but they didn’t, but they became that attached to him just by hearing his recorded lectures, and of course, his projects, his disciples. Sometimes I feel like you can’t really look anywhere in ISKCON without seeing his imprint and there is nowhere. Some places where he served longer you might see it more in a way, but actually, you see it everywhere. There is not a single molecule in ISKCON that doesn’t bear his imprint.

So yes, we are completely indebted to him, and his care, and love, and support, and guidance are continuing. So many devotees including myself are feeling it through different ways, that he is still very much present, very much looking after them, very much caring for them, and very much making arrangements for them. So yes, of course, we definitely lament his physical separation, but at the same time, it is also a challenge to us to come to a level of associating with him more through vāṇī, through hearing his instructions and following his instructions, and being able to please him in that way and feel his reciprocation in that way. And that is a meditation and an endeavor that can consume our entire life and I hope it does.

Hare Krishna.

Host: Thank you very much, Maharaja. And may we please ask that all of you visit us. We are begging.

Giriraj Swami: Well, it was in my mind. It was there in a very vague way but it came in a very vivid way when Mother Sangita mentioned that she was coming to Israel to do some seminars related to hospice care, and she said that it is only a few hours by air from Tel Aviv to Delhi.

Host: It is about eight or so. Six. . .six.

Giriraj Swami: All right, I will take three. And I wrote Bhurijana Prabhu about it also, but hearing that Tamal Krishna Goswami told Kalachandji dasa that he must visit Israel with him sometime, made me think that that could be another possibility. All right, I have noted that invitation, and I will depend on Srila Gurudeva to show me the appropriate time and way to do that, but I do feel that I must do that.

Host: Thank you, jaya. Thank you, Maharaja. So we will continue our program. We are so grateful to all of you that we could have your association.

Giriraj Swami: It was a pleasure for us.

Host: We would like to hear more. We would actually like to hear more. It is hard for us to let go of this nectar.

Kalachandji dasa: Well, I could tell a very short about yes Srila Gurudeva was, of course, very compassionate, very kind to all living things. And when he was young sometimes that enthusiasm to meet with animals, to have compassion for animals, to be friends with other living things, exhibited itself beyond his self-preservation. And so he would approach animals with seemingly very little regard to himself, and in some cases resulted in sometimes dangerous sometimes humorous situations. So whenever there was an animal he would want to feed the animal and in New York City that is not always the best idea. There are so many animals, of course, of different sorts. So he would feed the squirrels in the park, and one time he actually got bitten by one, it was very difficult to deal with it. But another time he went to actually feed a skunk. Yes, well, with the squirrel he had to suffer shots from rabies after doing so. But one time he actually went to feed skunks, do you have skunks, Sarah?

Host: Yes, we have.

Kalachandji dasa: Do you know skunk?

Host: Yes, we know.

Kalachandji dasa: So, the skunk. . .

Host: Yes, we know them.

Kalachandji dasa: Okay, good. So, we went and he approached a skunk to feed it, and of course, the skunk reciprocated in the way that only skunks know how from the other end by turning and raising its tail. And I don’t know what age, maybe at that time I am thinking maybe he got thirteen years old, something like that. And he came running, we were staying in a cottage in the countryside actually, and he came running back and you knew he was coming because you could smell him from so far away. And we had to give him a bath in tomato juice. I don’t know if this is the actual medical remedy but it is certainly the grandmother’s remedy for skunk, and submerged his entire body in a bathtub full of red tomato juice. And I could still see it had to be every inch of his body. So in the end, just as if you are trying not to smell he would go like this so he would not swallow or ingest the tomato juice into him. But even after these experiences it never dissuaded him from approaching animals, being so loving and kind, except the rats in Cambridge.

So anyway, that was just a nice example of that. I would say also his teaching, he was always teaching me, but his primary way of teaching was by example and by showing you things, and by serving example of how to act, how to behave, rather than abstract example. I mean abstract instruction, it was very personal and by example.

Host: Thank you. So, the devotees are saying that it is up to you, we can stay like this forever.

Devotees: [Unintelligible 00:53:22].

Host: Okay, thank you very much. Everyone is saying we are indebted for your wonderful spiritual association and we want some more association and we will just very assertively keep begging every once in a while hoping that we will see you not before long in Israel. So thank you very much and Hare Krishna.

Kalachandji dasa: Hare Krishna. Srila Gurudeva, ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami: Srila Prabhupada, ki jaya!