BG 8.5 – The Nature and Destination of the Soul

Giriraj Swami: Yes, but I am going to keep a slow pace. I have heard it is harder to play slow than fast. So, if you can do it, you can join me. [laughter]

Today we shall read from Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Chapter Eight, “Attaining the Supreme,”

TEXT 5

anta-kāle ca mām eva

smaran muktvā kalevaram

yaḥ prayāti sa mad-bhāvaṁ

yāti nāsty atra saṁśayaḥ

TRANSLATION

And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me alone at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

In this verse the importance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is stressed. Anyone who quits his body in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is at once transferred to the transcendental nature of the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Lord is the purest of the pure. Therefore anyone who is constantly Kṛṣṇa conscious is also the purest of the pure. The word smaran (“remembering”) is important. Remembrance of Kṛṣṇa is not possible for the impure soul who has not practiced Kṛṣṇa consciousness in devotional service. Therefore one should practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness from the very beginning of life. If one wants to achieve success at the end of his life, the process of remembering Kṛṣṇa is essential. Therefore one should constantly, incessantly chant the mahā-mantra – Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Lord Caitanya has advised that one be as tolerant as a tree (taror api sahiṣṇunā). There may be so many impediments for a person who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nonetheless, tolerating all these impediments, one should continue to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, so that at the end of one’s life one can have the full benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

COMMENT

To complete this, I mean, not complete it because to really complete it, we would have to read the whole chapter or the whole book, but to complement what we just read, I will read the next verse.

TEXT 6

yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ

tyajaty ante kalevaram

taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya

sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ

TRANSLATION

Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, O son of Kuntī, that state he will attain without fail.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The process of changing one’s nature at the critical moment of death is here explained. A person who at the end of his life quits his body thinking of Kṛṣṇa attains the transcendental nature of the Supreme Lord, but it is not true that a person who thinks of something other than Kṛṣṇa attains the same transcendental state. This is a point we should note carefully. How can one die in the proper state of mind? Mahārāja Bharata, although a great personality, thought of a deer at the end of his life, and so in his next life he was transferred into the body of a deer. Although as a deer he remembered his past activities, he had to accept that animal body. Of course, one’s thoughts during the course of one’s life accumulate to influence one’s thoughts at the moment of death, so this life creates one’s next life. If in one’s present life one lives in the mode of goodness and always thinks of Kṛṣṇa, it is possible for one to remember Kṛṣṇa at the end of one’s life. That will help one be transferred to the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa. If one is transcendentally absorbed in Kṛṣṇa’s service, then his next body will be transcendental (spiritual), not material. Therefore the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is the best process for successfully changing one’s state of being at the end of one’s life.

COMMENT

Hare Krishna. So, I chose these verses because they relate to a critical moment, the time of death, which will be faced by all of us sooner or later. And therefore, it behooves us to understand the significance of the time of death, and how to use it in the best way. Everyone is faced with choices, and if we have proper knowledge and information, we can make the best choices. So, in the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Krishna gives us information that will help us decide how to live our lives and how not to live our lives, and He explains, to begin, that the living entity or jivatma is distinct from the body, and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, when the body is destroyed, the living entity is not destroyed, it continues to live. We can also understand this from practical experience, that at the moment of death or I should say before the moment of death, our body has certain organs and chemicals, and a moment later, after what we call death, pretty much the same elements are there, the same organs are there, everything is there, but something very significant has occurred, and that is the consciousness is gone, and the consciousness is the energy of the soul.

The Bhagavad-gītā says that just as the sunshine fills the universe, the sun is located in one place but the sunshine fills the universe, similarly, the soul is located in a place but the consciousness from the soul pervades the body. So, when the soul leaves the body, we say the body is dead. Actually, the body is always dead because the body is a machine and it appeared to be alive as long as the ātmā was there. So, as soon as the ātmā left, we say the person is dead. And quite often we say that the person has left, “My father is gone," “But why do you say your father is gone? He is lying there; he is on the bed.” “No, he is gone, my father is gone.” So, that person is the ātmā. We may have identified the person’s body with the person during the person’s life, but the actual person is the ātmā, and when the ātmā leaves the body, we say the body is dead. And although all the elements are there, all the ingredients are there, all the organs are there, but they cannot function because the ātmā has gone. So, where does the ātmā go when it leaves the body? That is something that we all should consider because we are in this body for, we don’t know how long, one hundred years, one hundred days, one hundred minutes, one hundred seconds, we don’t know how long we have, but sooner or later that is going to have to leave this body. And the duration we have within the body is much less than the duration that that is going to exist after we leave the body because that is going to exist forever after we leave the body.

So, that is a question we should ask, “Where do we go when we leave the body?” My stay in this body is just for a short period, but my time after leaving the body stretches into eternity. So here, Krishna explains that, according to our thoughts at the time of death, we attain to our next position. So in broad terms, if we think of material things at the time of death, we will take birth in the material world, and be subject to the same punishment. There are so many miseries, but the Bhagavad-gītā specifically recommends janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, that we should always be conscious of the miseries of birth, death, old age, and disease. Why? Because those miseries remind us that the material world is not a happy place, that the physical body is not a happy place, and that will cause us to think how to get out of this predicament; how to make a solution. Sometimes people challenge, “Well, what is wrong with material life?” “Well, do you like disease?” “No.” “Do you like old age?” “No.” “Do you like death? Do you want to die?” “No.” “Well, that is what is wrong with material life.” And it doesn’t matter where you are in the material universe or what body you have, but you will still have to suffer the repetition of birth, disease, old age, and death.

So, we want to make a permanent solution, how we can go beyond this samsara chakra, this cycle of material miseries, birth and death, and that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that Krishna exists beyond the material world, He is everywhere, He is within the material world, He is in the hearts of every living entity He is in the atoms, He is in the space between the atoms and within the atoms; He is everywhere. But He also has His spiritual realm where He lives with His pure devotees and engages in pastimes of love with them. So, by hearing about Krishna, we should, and if we are not envious, we will naturally become attracted to Krishna and life with Krishna. And therefore, Krishna comes to stage a dramatic performance of what life is like with Him in the spiritual world. So, by hearing of His pastimes, we can be attracted to joining Him in loving service. So, remembering Krishna at the time of death means. . .Yes, Krishna is absolute so it means His name, His form, His qualities, His pastimes, His associates, they are all Krishna. And if we think of any one of them, we can go to Krishna. But our attachment to Krishna grows as we hear more about Him, and our attachment is a very critical feature because generally, we will think of whatever we are most attached to.

Like, one of my godbrothers. . .I have told this story; he was driving a motor vehicle and it stalled on some railway tracks. So, naturally, he was fiddling with the ignition, trying to get it to start, and then he looked, he saw that there is a train bearing down upon him and that it was going to hit at any moment, so, he thought, This is it, this is the end. And he started chanting, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. And the train hit the vehicle and that was it. And at that last moment, before he lost consciousness, he thought of his wife, What will happen to my wife? And then he became unconscious. And, of course, he lived to tell the story, but it shows, and not that we shouldn’t be attached to our wives or husbands, but it shows that we can’t really control what happens at the time of death, but what we are most attached to, that will really determine what we think of at the time of death. Of course, we can help each other to remember Krishna at the time of death and that is our duty and that can certainly help us remember Krishna at the time of death, but we shouldn’t wait and think, Okay, I will think of abc and xyz now, and then I will think of Krishna at the time of death, because it is a matter of practice, it is a matter of preparation. And therefore, there is a verse, bhajan koro sādhan koro murte jānle haya, that whatever sadhana you have done, whatever bhajana you have done, will be tested at the time of death, that is the crucial moment. And if someone is very well prepared, which means he is very attached to Krishna, always thinking of Krishna, then the change of body that we call death will be of no significance.

The Bhagavad-gītā compares the body to dress; just like you change your dress, you are wearing some clothes that got soiled and you have to move on, so you just quickly take those off and put on a new one. You hardly even have to pay attention to it because you are fixed on where you are going. So, when a devotee is really fixed on Krishna, on life with Krishna in the spiritual world, then the change of body that we call death is just. . .he hardly even notices because he is fixed on Krishna. So, that is the goal of our practices and we should spend time on chanting and hearing about Krishna.

Once, my godbrother Bhurijana Prabhu said, “It takes time to become Krishna conscious.” At first, I thought he meant that it takes time, you can’t become Krishna conscious immediately, but then he added that, “You have to put time into it, it takes time, it takes an investment of time to become Krishna conscious.” And therefore, the Bhāgavatam says that by rising and setting, the sun decreases the duration of life of everyone, except for those engaged in chanting and hearing the glories of Krishna, uttama-śloka varataya, because we have a certain amount of time allotted to us according to our karma or our destiny and the clock is ticking. Every rising and setting, another day is gone, another day from our duration of life is subtracted. Except, the Bhāgavatam says, except for those who utilize the time in chanting and hearing the glories of Krishna because that chanting and hearing, uttama-śloka varataya, is preparing them for eternal life with Krishna. So, it is not decreasing their duration of life, I mean, it may be decreasing the duration of their life within the body, but really, it is not decreasing their duration of life but rather it is helping them prepare for their eternal life with Krishna.

So, this is how we should spend our time, and we have time, everyone has time. In fact, everyone has the same amount of time in the day as everyone else, but even if we consider we have to spend so many hours sleeping, we have to spend so many hours bathing and dressing and eating, and we have to spend so many hours going to work or taking care of the children, whatever it is, there is still time. And people spend their time on so many recreational activities. Now, we also have recreational activities, but our recreational activities include Krishna. So, that time that people spend, which everyone does, even the President of the United States has so many responsibilities, he has his private time to take care of himself. So, we should use our time to take care of ourselves in the best way spiritually, to relish Krishna consciousness in the present life and prepare ourselves for beautiful life with Krishna after leaving this body.

And so, we need a support system. The International Society for Krishna Consciousness is meant to support anyone who wants to be Krishna conscious. And we should visit the temple, attend programs, festivals as much as possible. Now with the internet, even if we can’t go in person to the temple, we can participate in the satsaṅga through the internet, but really, we have to do our own chanting, and as Prabhupada says, chant Hare Krishna. And so, as far as possible, we should have people to support us in that endeavor, and those who are fortunate enough to live in an ashram, they will naturally have it. But every position is an ashram, there is brahmachari ashram, grihastha ashram, vanaprastha ashram, sannyasa ashram. And ashram is related to the word āśraya, which means shelter, so whatever ashram you are in, you are meant to take shelter of Krishna. So, you should find devotees who will help you in thinking of Krishna, who will talk about Krishna, sing about Krishna, do service to Krishna with you, and that will make our relationships very pure and congenial.

I have met a number of couples, but one put it very succinctly. I was asking about his life, how are things with his wife, and he said, “Whenever it comes to service, we adjust things perfectly, we are always in complete harmony. If she wants to do service, if I want to do service, if we both want to do service together, we are always in harmony. But as soon as we discuss what to do for our sense gratification, what channel to watch on television or. . .,” I mean, I am just making it up but not completely, “Then we fight, we fight.” And it is like a basic truth; just a basic truth, that when Krishna is the center and that we are all thinking of Krishna’s pleasure, our relationships are harmonious. And as soon as each of us tries to put ourselves in the center, “I want to do this for myself,” “No, I want to do this for myself,” then there is disharmony, discord. So, we want to have relationships with people who also want to cooperate to please Krishna, that is the best association.

Now, sometimes circumstances are such that we don’t always have a spouse or a peer who is in the same mood, but somehow, we have to find a way of associating with Krishna, we might have to make some concessions for peace in the family or at the workplace, but we have to spend time with Krishna. And people can change in time with good association. I am staying with a family in Fremont and so, some years ago they bought a copy of my first book, Watering the Seed. So I inscribed it. He was not initiated and his wife was initiated, so they had their names. Then, maybe a year or two later, they took my second book, I inscribed it, same thing. So, I was just inquiring what happened because now he is initiated. He and his wife are of Indian origin, he said, “Well, when we came to this country, my wife didn’t know anyone.” He had been here earlier but she hadn’t been, and she had a school friend, who was living in one of the towns in Silicon Valley, which was very near where the husband worked. So, she was new, she didn’t have any friends, so he would leave her with her school friend, who was Krishna conscious. So, by that association his wife became Krishna conscious but he didn’t have the association but his wife would say, “Okay, it is Sunday, let us go to the temple.” She always wanted to go to the temple, “Oh, it is Friday, let us go to the satsaṅga” and he didn’t really want to go, he had other ideas.

But somehow, by her association, she went but he wasn’t that interested but he was just going to please her. And gradually, like they say, many drops of water falling on the same place on this piece of stone can melt the stone. So, by going to all the satsaṅgas, he gradually started to get it, that there is really something to this. Then he came to the point he didn’t want to go anywhere else, he only wanted to be with devotees. So, not every story ends like that but there is possibility, it is all a matter of association. And yes, of course, sometimes people feel insecure, they don’t know what it all means and if they realize that it is not going to disrupt their life but it will actually improve their life, then they can expose themselves to that association that will gradually affect them in a very positive way. So, yes, association.

So, I am going to end here because I want to give you a chance to express yourself, either by asking questions or sharing realizations. Yes, I think that will be good. So, do any of you have any questions or thoughts? Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:48:02]?

Giriraj Swami: Did everyone hear the question? Well, as I hinted, there are two kinds of association, vāṇī and vapuḥ. Vāṇī means sound or words, and vapuḥ means physical presence or body. So, it is really beneficial to have both. I mean, when you are associating with a devotee, you will actually get good instructions and the benefit of his example and just the effects of his presence. So that is ideal and we should get that as much as we can. And without causing any disturbance, we should go out of our way to get it as much as we can. And in the absence of that association, of direct association, we can serve the instructions, think of the instructions and try to please the person by following the instructions. And that way we will be in their association. Like Srila Prabhupada dedicated Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to his spiritual master, he lives by his divine instructions and the follower lives with him.

So, there are just so many things. We are also dealing with the modes of nature, and in the presence of an advanced soul, the modes of nature have less influence, but if we get up early in the morning, those hours are the mode of goodness, Prabhupada mentioned living in the mode of goodness. Everything somehow organize our life in such a way that it is favorable for Krishna consciousness.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:50:49]?

Giriraj Swami: Well, of course. You joined in 1988. So, haven’t you been associating with Srila Prabhupada since then? He is asking for the benefit of others, I know. Yes, in fact, that is what we really want, we want Prabhupada’s association, and with Prabhupada’s association we get the association of all the previous acharyas coming to us through Srila Prabhupada, and we also get the association of Prabhupada’s disciples and devotees.

I remember after His Holiness Tamal Krishna Goswami left, one aspiring disciple of his wrote me saying how devastated he was and saying that I was very close to Tamal Krishna Goswami, so I could help him develop his relationship with Tamal Krishna Goswami. And at that time, his question put me in a little anxiety, and I had and still have a picture of Tamal Krishna Goswami on my altar, and I prayed, “What do I do?” And he said, “Don’t worry about helping him develop his relationship with me.” Means Tamal Krishna Goswami. “Just help him to develop his relationship with Srila Prabhupada, which you would do easily and naturally. And when he develops his relationship with Srila Prabhupada, I will automatically be there. So, his developing his relationship with me will automatically be included.” So, that was something I felt I could do. It is something I did in Prabhupada’s presence and it is something I would try to do all the time, even in Prabhupada absence, physical absence. So, yes, definitely. Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:53:45]?

Giriraj Swami: Children are, sort of, pure. Prabhupada mentioned it in the purport we read, that from the very beginning of life, if they practice Krishna consciousness, then they can easily be Krishna conscious at the time of death. But then again, their minds may not be very steady, and they can go from one thing to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next, and you don’t exactly know where it is going to end up at any given time, what to speak of at the time of death. So, the best thing for everyone is to practice Krishna consciousness from now on, intensify our efforts and to help others with theirs. Because it is not so easy that just because someone is a child that they are going to think of Krishna at the time of death. If they have good parents and they lead pure lives, then they won’t have a lot of bad karma that other people have, so that is good, that is hopeful. But it takes more than that to go to Krishna, they actually have to want to go to Krishna or you have to somehow be thinking of Krishna. But that is true, they can learn, they can be easily led in the right direction and in the wrong direction. So, if they are fortunate or if we make them fortunate, more fortunate, we can help lead them in the right direction, that is true. Yes? Please.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:56:24]?

Giriraj Swami: You made Ekādaśī prasādam?

Devotee: Yes.

Giriraj Swami: That is very good news.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:56:32]

Giriraj Swami: That is very good news, thank you. Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:56:42]?

Giriraj Swami: I think in principle there should be no difference, and I think it is not something that you can try to regulate, like so much percent for your personal spiritual master, so much percent for Prabhupada, so much percent for Lord Chaitanya, so much percent for Krishna, it is not like that. But the idea is to, surrender yourself to that current of spiritual energy that is coming through paramparā and trust it to take you forward. But what we shouldn’t imagine. I was just rereading Bhurijana Prabhu’s wonderful book called, My Glorious Master, and he had a section called, Imagined Prabhupada and Real Prabhupada. He was serving in separation, and due to various influences, he became weak, but he imagined that Prabhupada would be pleased with him. But then, when Prabhupada actually came in person, Prabhupada was very kind to him but he also pointed out his weaknesses. So, sometimes our imagined Prabhupada could be different from the real Prabhupada, or even our own spiritual master, imagined personal spiritual master would be different from the actual spiritual master.

So, once a disciple asked Srila Prabhupada something like, “Reading the book Bhāgavata and serving the person bhāgavata both are the same, but still, is there any differences, one better than the other?” and he said, “Serving the person bhāgavata, because he can pull you by the ear.” Again, different instructions are relevant at different times. Definitely as the devotee matures and becomes more free from false ego and mixed desires, he can more accurately ascertain what his spiritual master would want. But again, it is always good to consult and confirm. We do have that checks and balances, sādhu, śāstra, guru, it is always good to do that. But sometimes you might think more of Prabhupada, sometimes you might think more of your spiritual master, sometimes you might think more of Lord Chaitanya, you might think more of Nityananda, you might think more of Krishna, it is all good, it is all good. [laughter]

I think once I asked Srila Prabhupada about reading his books, if I should read them in any particular order, and he has given different answers on different occasions. Oh no, this was different, we were riding on the train with him, that is right, we were riding on the train with him and he wanted us to read to him, we had Kṛṣṇa book, so that is right, we asked, “Is there any particular part that you would like us to read from?” and he said, “No, it is all nectar” we just opened it and read. So, it is all nectar.

Thank you very much, Hare Krishna, all glories to Srila Prabhupada, I will be staying on if you want to discuss further. Okay.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:01:38]

Giriraj Swami: Well, what does Swami Vivekananda teach? I don’t know Swami Vivekananda.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 01:01:55]

Giriraj Swami: Okay but for me to determine whether he is an impersonalist or not, I need to know what he teaches. Do you know what he teaches? Well okay, we will leave it at that. Hare Krishna. Thank you very much. [applause]

Devotees: Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya!