“Simple Living, High Thinking” Gathering

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Thank you very much. I am seeing some relatively new faces. So, to begin I would like to go around and ask a few of you to introduce yourselves, tell us why you are here and what you would like to hear about or discuss with me? Is there anything you would like to hear about in particular?

Hare Krishna. So today is a special day on the Vaishnava calendar. You know what the word ‘Vaishnava’ means? Well, so we will come back to that at the end, after we cover some more material. So, our basic textbook is the Bhagavad-gītā. “Bhagavat” is related to the word Bhagavān which means God and “Gītā” means song. God has every faculty that we have. He is the Supreme Father of all living entities. So, the father must have all the faculties that the children have. So, we can think so He thinks, we can feel so He feels, we can desire so He desires, we can talk so He can talk, He can do everything that we can do and more. But when He speaks it comes out as song and poetry. So, the Bhagavad-gītā means literally the song of God, but everything that He says is song; it is poetry and it is music.

The first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is that the ātmā or the soul, the life force is distinct from the body. And our actual identity is as ātmā. We can understand by logic and reason that life can be either a combination of material ingredients combined in a certain way or it can be a different energy altogether. The Bhagavad-gītā tells us that it is a different energy, that Krishna or God has basically three energies: the spiritual energy which comprises the spiritual realm, and the material energy which is the material elements that we all see, and the marginal energy which are the living entities which is us. And we are called marginal because we can come either under the influence of the spiritual energy or the material energy. We somehow have come under the influence of the material energy. And that is why we are struggling and suffering in the material world. But if we place ourselves under the spiritual energy then we end up in the spiritual world. And that is our goal, I mean directly and indirectly that is what I have heard from all of you.

Now the spiritual energy, everything in God’s creation is personal. In the modern world there is a very popular sort of materialistic philosophy or theory called reductionism. They try to reduce everything to atoms, molecules, such things. But actually, there is personal superintendence over everything. We see it in every unit, even in the family, in the state there is always personal supervision. And that is natural because that spiritual energy is also called the superior energy and the material energy is called the inferior energy. So naturally the superior energy will control the inferior energy.

So, within our body there is the ātmā and that animates the body. As soon as the ātmā leaves the body, we say that the body is dead, but the body is always dead. The body is a machine. It is never anything more than a machine but it is animated by the presence of the ātmā.

So again, coming back to the logical point that if life arises from a combination of material ingredients, death would be a breakdown in that combination. And therefore, logically one should be able to bring back to life a person by restoring the arrangement of material elements. With any other machine, a car, automobile, if some part breaks and the car does not work you can replace it and the car will work again. It does not matter how many pieces of the machinery break, if you replace enough of them the car will work again.

But we have no experience with the body that is the case. Once the ātmā leaves the body, at that critical moment of the time of death, pretty much all the material ingredients that were sustaining life are still there. And all the organs are there, everything is there but something is missing. And if life were just an arrangement of chemicals you should be able to restore the chemical combination and restore life to the body. But you cannot. Therefore, by logic and reason we can come to the same conclusion—that life is a distinct energy. It is not chemical and it is not physical. And that is us. And this body is just a machine that we are using. Or as the Bhagavad-gītā also says. . .

Balarama, why do you not you move over; you can even sit here and that way we will have more chairs. There are more chairs here, yeah there is more chairs here.

Hare Krishna. Welcome.

Joe, do you want to come closer?

So, yes, the Bhagavad-gītā also compares the body to a dress, clothing, that the ātmā wears. And when the clothing becomes old and useless you discard it, you put on a new set of clothes. And that ātmā is a fragmental part of the Paramātmā. The individual soul is a fragmental part of the Supreme Soul. And just as our dress has shape, because the body within the dress has shape so similarly our bodies have shape because the ātmā within the body also has shape. And that ātmā or jīvātmā has shape because the Paramātmā or the Supreme Soul has shape, has form. But the Paramātmā form is spiritual. Even the jīvātmā form is spiritual, because by nature spirit is sat-chit-ānanda, that means it is eternal. Eternal means it has no beginning and no end. It is fully conscious; matter is not conscious but spirit is conscious. And spirit is by nature full of bliss, and matter is the opposite.

So, we are out of place in the material world. We are like fish out of water. And we can only be happy back in the spiritual world. And the process of Krishna consciousness is to transfer ourselves from the control of the material energy to the superintendence of the spiritual energy.

Another example just to make this point clear, the material world is like a prison. And the prisoners are in prison because they have broken the laws of the state. And if they reform themselves, they can be released from the prison. But within the prison they are individuals and when they are released from the prison, they remain individuals. When they are in the prison they have activities and when they are released from the prison, they have activities. The reason I say this is because there are two broad schools of thought that keep us in the material world, one is just the materialistic idea that you are the body and you should enjoy the senses of the body. And the other is that it is supposedly spiritual but it is not spiritual, it’s actually just a negation of the material which is also material. But the negative idea is that I have individuality, I have personality, I am suffering, I have thoughts, I have desires, I have feelings, I am suffering, I engage in activities, I am suffering.

So, the solution is no more individuality, no more thinking, no more feeling, no more desiring, no more acting, just. . . well it is a type of spiritual suicide, just give up your individual existence and merge into the light or the void. So, none of these philosophies are logical, none of them really work. So why should the soul which is so active in the conditioned state become inactive in the liberated state? It does not make sense. It is just a question of changing the activities; from serving maya or the material energy to serving Krishna or the spiritual energy.

So now, what does this phrase: ‘life’s final exam’ mean? It is derived from a Bengali verse that says that whatever sadhana, that means spiritual practices, and whatever bhajana that means worship, basically whatever you do in your life is tested at the time of death—that is the final exam. But what does it mean to pass the final exam? Well again we come back to the Bhagavad-gītā, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ, whatever thoughts you have at the time of death determine your next life.

So, if you think of material things, you will take birth in the material world and if you think of Krishna, God at the time of death then you go to Krishna. So, whatever we do in life is tested at the time of death. A student goes to class, he does assignments, he takes the midterms or whatever other exams they give, but ultimately his being graduated depends on whether he, or passing depends on whether he passes the final exam. So, our test, ultimate test, is where do we go for shelter? At any moment we can be challenged and we can test ourselves, where do we go for shelter? Often if there is some challenge, some crisis, the first thing we check do I have my wallet with me, do I have my credit cards, that is where we look for shelter. So, the shelter we get in the material world is not guaranteed, but the shelter we get from Krishna is guaranteed.

And at the time of death nothing will help us other than Krishna. Our family members, our spouses, our parents, our children, our friends, our money, our insurance, our doctors, ultimately nothing will help us except Krishna. So, we must practice taking shelter of Krishna now, so that at the time of death we take shelter of Krishna. So, what we experience in life as challenges are pop quizzes. Are we going to take shelter of Krishna or maya? And the tests can come in different ways.

Our spiritual master Srila Prabhupada said of himself, “that first Krishna tested me by taking everything away from me and then Krishna tested me by giving me everything.” Both are tests. If we have something and Krishna takes it away, that is a test. Are we going to take shelter in Krishna or take shelter of our own devices to try to get back what we lost or get some other substitute? And being given everything is also a test. We can think of Krishna when we are distressed but what about when we are happy? We go now I do not need Krishna, now I have got so much money and whatever power, a prestige, position. Now I do not need Krishna. So, both are tests. And these tests are really preparation for final exam.

Now, how do we think of Krishna or God at the time of death? In many religious traditions including the Vedic tradition, the recommended method is to chant the name of God at the time of death. For many years I could not go to Pakistan. And in Pakistan I came across a book called The 99 Names of Allah. Of course, I must add that most followers of different religious traditions are basically materialistic. And they go to the church, or the temple or the mosque or pray to God so that they can enjoy material life. So, I am not talking about that, but within every tradition, I mean they may have limits to how far they can go, but in every tradition there is a small minority of people who aspire for something beyond material things. They want to have some communion with God, some release from material bondage.

So, in this book, The 99 Names of Allah, it says that the best thing that a Muslim can do at the time of death is remember the name of God. The best thing his relatives and friends can do is to help him by reciting the name of God at the time of death. And the same applies in practically every tradition and it applies in the Vedic tradition as well. But at the time of death our bodily functions stop working. Things become very disarrayed. And so, we don’t have the same command over our faculties at the time of death that we do in good health and in a steady frame of mind.

So, I will tell a story about a colleague of mine. He was young, he was in good health and he was in a good frame of mind. But he was driving a motor vehicle and it stalled on the train tracks. So naturally he was fiddling with the ignition, trying to get the motor to start again. And then he looked up and he saw that the train was bearing down on him. There was no time for him to do anything, even if the car started it would not get him across in time. He could not go backwards, could not get out of the car and run. So, he started to chant.

Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare

Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare

And the train hit and he thought, this is it, it is all over, this chanting, and then at the last moment he thought, what will happen to my wife? And those were his last thoughts before he lost consciousness. Fortunately, he lived to tell the story. But the point I am making is that generally we think of, the mind will settle on the thing that we are most attached to. So, as also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayy āsakta-manāḥ, we must transfer our attachment to Krishna. And an advanced devotee is so attached to Krishna that he or she thinks of Krishna all the time, at every moment. In fact, for such a person death is almost a non-existent phenomenon because the body is just a dress, is just a machine.

Another example is it is a room you live in one room in a house, and then you move into the next room. So, if you are absorbed in the rooms of the house, you will be thinking, This is this color and this has this furniture and I do not know if I’m going to like the next room and I don’t know if I like that color and that. But if you are absorbed in Krishna, the room is immaterial because you are not living in the room, you are living with Krishna.

So that is our real goal to become so attached to Krishna which means necessarily becoming detached from maya. That it does not matter where we are or what we are doing, if Krishna gives us everything or if Krishna takes away everything, it does not matter because we are with Krishna. We are not living in heaven or hell or anywhere except with Krishna. And so, this whole practice of bhakti-yoga is meant to increase our attachment to Krishna, attachment to Krishna, absorption in Krishna, ultimately love for Krishna. But if you love someone then you are naturally attached; it means you are attached to them and you are absorbed in them, just by virtue of your love. And the basic practice, the beginning and the end, and the middle is the chanting. But the chanting must be supported with hearing. Of course, hearing the holy name, but not just hearing the holy name, hearing about Krishna.

Srila Prabhupada gives the example. If someone phones you and you say, “who is it?” and then the person gives his name or her name, immediately you remember everything. Say you phone your mother, this is so and so, the mother becomes so happy just hearing your name, because the name reminds her of the person whom she loves. So, by hearing about Krishna, hearing means reading or includes reading; by hearing about Krishna we come to know about Him and we come to love Him. We talk about love of God, any bona fide religious process will talk about love of God, but how can you love someone if you do not know the person? There are no details. So, by hearing about Krishna, by reading about Krishna we find out He is so beautiful, He is so powerful, and mainly He is so loving. He cares so much for His devotees, He is so merciful. And by hearing we think, Wow! I could also be like one of those devotees and be the recipient of Krishna’s mercy and care and love. It is open to anyone.

And so that is an impetus for us. And as we progress in knowledge of Krishna and love for Krishna then hearing His name is not just hearing some syllables or a name that we know vaguely refers to the supreme but there is no details, but it is, oh it is Krishna. And there are devotees—they are just chanting one name. They have so much love for Krishna, they become completely stunned in ecstasy. They just go into a whole meditation on Krishna.

So, there are different stages in bhakti-yoga. There is sādhana-bhakti, that means devotional service in practice, and sādhya-bhakti which is devotional service in perfection. And one leads to the other. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says: bhaktyā sañjātayā bhaktyā, that bhakti comes from bhakti. One meaning is that, say you are blessed with bhakti. So where did that come from? That came from the bhakti in someone’s heart. So, bhakti comes from bhakti. And even within your own progress bhakti comes from bhakti—devotional service and perfection comes from devotional service in practice. But it is still bhakti. So, in that sense, the means and the end are the same. It is bhakti. And that is a difference between material life and spiritual life. In material life, the means and the end are different.

In material life you pass the final exam. So, you can get out of study. But in bhakti you pass the final exam so you can do more of the same—chant Hare Krishna and serve Krishna. It is just that you will be doing it in the spiritual world rather than in the material world. But if you are really absorbed in Krishna consciousness you are never in the material world. It is only apparent and that is the perfection. But even if you have not reached complete perfection before the time of death, but with support and by Krishna’s mercy you can still think of Him at the time of death and pass the final exam.

And this book, Many Moons, I mean we do not presume to know what a soul’s destination is after he or she leaves the body, but there are indications. And certainly, by reading the accounts of those devotees who are just like us, just like you and me, but they took to the practice of Krishna consciousness and you can see how Krishna helped them prepare and ultimately pass the final exam.

To give one example and this was related to me by Guru Bhakti dasi, who you know, most of you, she is a medical doctor and she had a godsister that means a fellow disciple of Tamal Krishna Goswami in Dallas. And so, she explained that her godsister whose name is Kirtida was very close to death some years before she died. But she was not ready. She could have left then, but she still had some issues that she had to deal with. So, it was a preparation—Krishna arranged that situation so that she could see what progress she must make before she actually leaves. So, this is one kind of mercy.

Another kind of mercy was manifested in the story of another devotee who was just in excruciating pain from cancer. She was in Vrindavan which is a very supportive, spiritually supportive place to leave your body. But again, Kirtida was in Dallas which also shows that you can be in Vrindavan, anywhere. So, the other devotee, Arca Vigraha, was in Vrindavan and her cancer was excruciating. And her next-door neighbor was a very senior devotee—BB Govinda Swami, and he would come and see her every day. And one day when he came, he saw a change, she was a very strong woman. But he saw a change, I mean that the pain was just too much she just could not bear it. So, he started speaking to her about Krishna. And somehow, she was able to fix her mind on Krishna, on the descriptions of Krishna. And her pain went away. It is not that the physical pain went away, but her consciousness went away from her physical pain to Krishna. And she realized that the only way to escape her physical pain was to fix her mind on Krishna.

So, that was also Krishna’s mercy to create a situation in which the alternative to thinking of Him was so unbearable, of course I mean most people are just ignorant. They must bear the unbearable because they do not know what the alternative is. But in her case, and Govinda Maharaja explained it was such a dramatic transformation, she went from being so miserable to being completely blissful, just like that. It was just by that simple process of fixing the mind on Krishna.

So, I mean it happens. I mean their degrees of tests; we might be chanting and the mind is problematic even under the best of circumstances. But even it is under congenial circumstances; we are trying to fix the mind on Krishna. And if it is a little warm we can tolerate it, we do not want to distract ourselves because it is a little warmer. But if or say we have an itch, all right are we going to keep focused on Krishna or are we going to get absorbed in the itch? Or we have a little whatever toothache. So, when it is mild we can tolerate it and go on with our chanting but when it becomes more intense it is harder to stay focused, I mean for an ordinary person. And then eventually it is like, I must do something about this, I’ve to do something.

So, the time of death in progressive disease can be very painful, but that can be an impetus to fixing the mind on Krishna. But then there is also sudden death and for that our only real preparation is practicing thinking of Krishna, which ultimately means developing love for Krishna. If we love Krishna, then no matter what time of day, no matter how unexpected the calamity is, we will think of Him out of love. But He is there in the heart, He’ll help us, He’ll help us to realize that at that moment at the last moment we have no other shelter, no other shelter.

I will conclude with one incident and I can also ask you to pray for her but the initial reports I got was that the surgery went very well. But there is a devotee in the Los Angeles temple community. And she has lung cancer and today she went for a long surgery. It has not spread and so they were just removing one lobe of her right lung. The initial report which I got just before walking over here—that it went very well. But still, we can pray for her. But I phoned her last night and she told the story that she, I think two weeks ago I had to go for some scan. I do not really remember the details but she was I guess put in some cylinder. She was there for a half hour. And she is a very sweet devotee from the island of Mauritius. She is not used to all these sophisticated big hospitals, sophisticated machines. To her it was like what is this? Where am I going? What are they going to do to me?

So, when she was in the cylinder, somehow her mind just went to all these different Deities, that is the form of the Lord that we worship in the temple, in Mayapur, just different places, different Deities from different places. And I think just relishing the recollection of being in their presence and feeling comfort in Their protection. And she said she became so blissful thinking of all these forms of the Lord.

And again, according to the philosophy, because God is absolute. So, His name is not different from Him, His form is not different from Him, His instructions are not different from Him. It is all Krishna. And she was in such an ecstatic mood. She did not want to come out. She felt like it cannot get any better than this. She really did not want to come out and then when they pulled her out, she said, “Oh my God, I’m back in the material world.” And all the lights, and all the people, and her blissful meditation was broken. But Krishna can help in that way, He will help us somehow or other. But God helps those who help themselves. We must make our effort and at the same time depend on Krishna’s mercy. And that combination will make a success.

Hare Krishna.

So, any of you have any questions or comments, anything you would like to share or ask?

Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible] feeling of realizing that [Unintelligible] I tasted the goodness of the Lord and imagine or feel myself to be stronger than I am [Unintelligible 00:49:54–00:50:22]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, yes right. You said it all and you said it beautifully. In fact, there is a verse in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that describes the beginning of pure devotional service. And what the verse says, is that the devotee knows that all sense gratification leads to misery. And he tries to avoid it. But despite trying to avoid it he sometimes ends up being involved in the exact activity that he wants to avoid. So, this verse, it is two verses together, says that ‘He should continue with his efforts in a happy mood knowing that Krishna is there, like a loving father.’ And the commentary by our previous, not previous but higher authorities, previous acharyas, says that one should not become depressed if one fails even repeatedly. But one, and that word is in the Sanskrit, but one should continue in a happy mood knowing that Krishna is there. And that one can be successful only by Krishna’s mercy. And one should have faith that eventually Krishna will have mercy. But when He decides to show us that mercy that depends on Him. And that is His prerogative. But we will continue with our effort.

And one acharya, he says that even if Lord Brahma, the creator of the universe was to come and say, “don’t serve Krishna,” that devotee will never give up serving Krishna. So just patiently and confidently continue. And that is said to be the beginning of pure devotional service. It does not mean, pure devotional service does not mean initially that one never fails in one’s attempts or never falls down but it means that one never gives up trying.

Any other questions and comments? Is it relevant to the clock? Okay one more.

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Well, the only barrier to remembering Krishna is forgetting Krishna. There is a history of a great saintly king in India. He had some deep philosophical questions. And he had an assembly of wise men who were attempting to answer his questions. He was not completely satisfied. And then a sage sort of wandered into the assembly, his name was Astavakra. He had some physical deformity, I am not sure exactly what it was. And the people started, some people laughed which did not affect him but wasn’t good for them. So, the king had two questions; one is what is maya and the other is how can we get free from the clutches of maya?

So, what is maya? He said it is like a dream, when you are in the dream you think that it is real but when you wake up you see that it was just a dream. It was not real. Then the king asked the second question, “How do we become free from the clutches of maya?” So, they were sitting outdoors. So, the sage went to a tree and he put his arms around the tree and it is holding onto the tree. And he was shouting “let me go, let me go, let me go.” Everyone started to laugh. They were already, some of them were sort of in the mood of laughter. He looked so funny and he is holding on to the tree: “let me go, let me go, let me go.” They are really laughing. And then he said, “That’s the answer to your question, how to become free from the grip of maya. Well, it’s not that maya is gripping you but you are gripping maya.”

But it is habit; it may take time to overcome our previous conditioning. But it is possible by chanting, by hearing, by serving, and associating with devotees. That is extremely important, because in this culture materialism is extremely prominent. And everywhere we go we are going to be bombarded with messages to enjoy the body and to get this material thing and that material thing which will add to your bodily comfort or success or pleasure. And man is a social animal, you cannot live alone. And so, to counteract that effect of materialistic propaganda we need to associate with devotees who will confirm our spiritual identities and not try to exploit our materially false identification.

Yes?

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Well, there is no saying that someone cannot be successful because he just began. It really depends on the sincerity and purpose and surrender and faith. But Arjuna does ask a similar question to Krishna in the Bhagavad-gītā. And Krishna says that if somehow one is not completely successful, I mean that is our goal to be completely successful in this lifetime. There is no reason why we cannot be. But still Arjuna asked if one is not completely successful in this lifetime what happens to him? And Krishna says, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo ‘bhijāyate, if someone somehow has not completed the course and in his next life he will take birth in a family of devotees, that is the sort of best, or in a family of wealthy people. And he will be naturally attracted to the principles of yoga as a continuation from his past life even without knowing why. So, one will get a chance to continue in the next life.

And materially whatever you gain in this life you lose at the time of death. You might know ten languages in this life but then when you take your next birth, it is ga-gaga. . . this starts all over again. But spiritually whatever advancement you make in this life, say you have done 10 percent, so in your next life you begin from 11 percent. So, there is never any loss or diminution the Bhagavad-gītā says. So, there is always hope and a pure devotee just wants to serve Krishna. He does not even ask for liberation from the material world, he just wants to serve Krishna and he is never in the material world in that consciousness, he is always with Krishna.

Yes?

Devotee: Sorry, it sparked a question. So, it is my understanding that this Krishna has many names. And some of them, if people who grow up in other parts of the world or even here and they have a different conception of God and if they are sincere, it is my understanding that they will come to the same conclusion in their heart. So, it is at the time of death someone is thinking of Allah or another name of God. Are they going to get that perfection for God?

Giriraj Swami: Well, that is a very good question and it requires a little explanation because within the spiritual world, just like we have in the material world they are different planets, so in the spiritual sky they are also different planets. And on the different planets there are different forms of God. And the highest planet, and I can explain why it is said highest, is the planet of Krishna.

And then there is say a little lower, if you are going to use those terms, there is the planet of Rama. And then a little lower planet of Vishnu. Now what we mean by higher and lower is degrees of intimacy with the Lord. And with Krishna you can have any one of five relationships and they can be very intimate. On the Krishna planet the devotees even forget that Krishna’s God because their love for Him is so strong, they do not even care that He is God. They just love Him spontaneously. But in the other planets, and then with Rama’s, it is close but not as intimate as with Krishna. And then with Vishnu, there is always awe and reverence.

And so, accept in some very few mystical traditions, there is really very little concept of God other than being the supreme master, the supreme ruler. And the devotee is just the servant. Now there is another problem which is that there are higher planets in the material world and there are higher beings on those planets and there are you could say predominating rulers of those planets. And because people do not have a clear conception of God or even the creation of God, they mix up different figures as being God. I found this in some worship ceremonies and prayer books and even discussions.

So, there is, I will give a few examples. So, I mentioned Lord Brahma, he is the creator of the universe. He is not the ultimate creator. The ultimate creator is Vishnu, but he is the first created being and he is given all the ingredients for creation by God. But he assembles them. He is the secondary creator. So, a lot of people’s religious conceptions of God is closer to Brahma than even Vishnu.

And then there is another demigod named Yamaraja. He is the God of death. He keeps track of his staff, keeps track of everyone’s activities, and he awards them their punishment and rewards for their activities. So, a lot of the prayers to God are closer to the function of Yamaraja, that he is sitting in judgement of them and awarding them their just desserts. And then there is Indra, he is the king of heaven. That is another thing people are not aware of the difference between material heavenly planets and the spiritual world. So, he is the king of heaven. So, for some people their conception of God is more like from their conception of heaven, their conception of the goal is more like the material heaven than any of the spiritual planets. It will be a place of increased sense gratification.

The same thing but the women are more beautiful and music is more pleasant, the liquor is more intoxicating without the side effects. It is just an extension of their sense gratification on Earth and that is what that material heaven is like. It is all the same things but it is just on a higher level. So that is why, I mean it would be nice if it was that simple, that someone chants Allah and goes to the spiritual world. But when he chants Allah what is he thinking of, not only what is he thinking of, what is he desiring? Does he want to go to a place with beautiful lakes and rivers and fruit trees and virgins to enjoy? So, there is a lot to passing the final exam and going to Krishna.

But we do not say do not chant the name of Allah or do not chant the name of Jesus, but if they can stay in their religion, but they should add this to it. They should add this knowledge to it, because if they chant the name of Allah and they really want to go to a place with facility for material enjoyment that is what they will get. So, we need to help them understand that the very first thing is that we are not the body. This whole idea of enjoying the senses of the body is illusory because we are not the body. It is all external to the soul and it will never really satisfy the soul. No matter how delicious the beverages are, how beautiful the virgins are it is not going to satisfy the soul. Good question.

Yes?

Devotee: Kind of know this or been told this or experienced, I mean all the levels that you speak of and love all the Deities and the variety, and then on one hand you are saying that the final test is [Unintelligible] how is it hard that when something I have heard or referenced is there is nothing or no thing that is not God. There is nothing outside that is not God, we are nothing but a cell inside the body of God. This is just our carnal self our human piece that keeps us. We know but we do not. I want to [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Well, the basis of your question is a premise that needs to be examined. You are saying we are all cells in the body of Rama.

Devotee: I heard that, I heard it.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, you have read it, you have heard it and you’ve repeated it tonight. So, is it worth examining?

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Well, that is true. We want to love and be loved but that implies two. If you love someone other than you and you are loved by someone other than you. The oneness comes from the love, but not from the disappearance of individuality. It is like in the material concept there is so much disagreement because everyone is identifying with the body and they have so many false designations. And so, they fight, whatever I am Republican, I am democratic fighter, I am white, you are brown, I do not like you.

So, Krishna consciousness means we go beyond all these false designations to the only one identity that we all share which is that we are all eternal servants of Krishna. So, when we all realize that we are eternal servants of Krishna, we are one in the sense that we are all servants of Krishna. And we all have the same purpose. But it is not that we lose our individuality and become one in the sense that we are the impersonalist give the example like a drop of water merges into the ocean and it disappears. That is not who we are and that is not possible for us to do. We are individual souls. We are as you said, we want to love and be loved. And that desire can be fulfilled in relation to the Personality of Godhead. And then we are all one, we are all servants of Him.

Yes?

Devotee: I understand we must do our spiritual practices to purify us and there is mercy from God as well. My study of the Christian faith, I was taught that we really cannot save ourselves, we must rely on the mercy of God to save us, so that we can go back to Him. So it just seems to be almost like because of our human tendency we see the possibility to perfect ourselves and I know it takes many lifetimes to do that but isn’t there a certain amount of just that mercy from God, that’s okay you are not completely perfected but accepting my [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that is true. And we need both—our own efforts and God’s mercy. There are two examples given by the sages from the animal kingdom. One is the mother monkey and baby monkey. The baby monkey holds on to the mother monkey, I saw this in the John Henry’s [Unintelligible]. And the mother monkey is jumping from tree to tree and that little baby monkey is holding on for dear life, she is little and not very strong. And if she lets go which is possible, she could just fall and be hurt. And the other example is of the mother cat and the baby cat. The mother cat picks up the kitten and carries her and the kitten has no anxiety because the mother is taking responsibility. So, progressing by our own efforts is like the little baby monkey trying to hold on to the mother monkey with the very possibility of losing one’s grip and falling. So, we want to be more like the kitten that is picked up by the mother cat and carried. But we still must make our efforts, I mean in one sense we must be like the baby monkey and make some effort but ultimately, we want to be like the kitten that’s carried by the cat.

So now what can we do to get the Lord’s mercy? I think this is a very pertinent question. And we must make our effort, that’s basic. But what pleases the Lord as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā and especially taught by Lord Chaitanya and His followers, is to bring other people to Krishna—that pleases the Lord a lot. And at the end of the Bhagavad-gītā, Krishna says, “that one who explains this supreme science of yoga is my dear most servant. There will never be one more dear to Me than he.” And in the end pure devotional service is guaranteed and he will come back to Me.

So, one way that we can get special mercy is by working to bring others to Krishna. Krishna is the supreme father. So, say the son of a rich man has run away from home, so if someone recognizes that son and says, “why are you struggling and suffering? Your father’s a very rich man, you should come home and all your problems will be solved.” And obviously there is some difference between them and that is why the son left. And you get the son to agree to come back and sort of rectify his relationship with his father. That father will be so pleased. I mean what could please the father more than that.

So, all of us in the material world are runaway children, rebellious children, foolish children. And so, bringing other of those lost children back to the supreme father really pleases the father. And He, even I have seen probably here too, but I have seen in California, I have seen these signs posted on posts and trees and bulletin boards: ‘missing dog,’ such and such reward to the person that brings that dog back. So, these owners, they are attached to their dogs and they are in so much anxiety that their dog is gone somewhere. And they are ready to reward that person who finds the dog and brings it back. So, Krishna’s the supreme father and He has so much love for His parts and parcels, much more than we could have for a dog or a spouse or anything and His capacity to reward someone far exceeds anyone’s capacity in the material world. So, if an ordinary person is willing to give such a reward to someone for bringing their lost dog home, so what reward will Krishna give to us who bring His lost part of parcel home? That reward, if we do it to get, to that extent, and with that purity of purpose, that reward is that He will bring us back to Him.

This is a special opportunity we have and it is not easy. Well making the effort is easy, bringing people back is not that easy. But if you make the effort to get the reward. One godbrother was a lifeguard before he met the devotees. And he was taught that when someone is drowning, someone’s floundering in the ocean you must sort of swim out and come from behind and put your arm around them and put their body on top of yours because if they see you coming, they may fight. They are desperate, they are trying to save themselves from drowning, they will fight you. They are their own worst enemy. And so, dealing with the conditioned souls is like that, they are their own worst enemies. They see you coming to save them and they fight. So somehow, we have to sneak up behind them, grab them, pull them along.

Yes.

Devotee: I just keep thinking about just one thought [Unintelligible] So it seems like all this really hard work that we have to do is all about, it’s kind of a. . . The answer’s already there and it was so simple and so obvious that it’s kind of hard to accept because, you feel like you need to work for it so hard but it just really feels like all of the work is about surrendering. Do you know what I mean? It is just, I mean I know there is, kind of hard to express this, but it seems all the messages that I hear are about winning the material world and just surrendering to the love of the one that we belong to. And it is hard to think of such a [Unintelligible] in mind. It is almost like this is the test, this is the only success. It is being placed in maya. Do you see what I mean?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I mean that is, that you have hit upon a very important point. And that is what is maya? What is the material world? What is our relationship with the material world? And the answer is implicit in something I said earlier from the Bhagavad-gītā that it is Krishna’s inferior energy. But it is Krishna’s energy, see the impersonalists, and you get the idea of what the impersonalists are. They want to merge and become one with the light or the void. So, they want to avoid the material world because they think the material world will just entangle you.

Now our philosophy is a little different. Our philosophy is that the material world is also Krishna’s energy and the living entities are also Krishna’s energy. And therefore, they should be engaged in Krishna’s service. And when they are engaged in Krishna’s service, they become spiritualized. What is the difference between an ordinary house and a temple? They are both made of bricks and stone and mortar, what’s difference? The difference is that in the temple the Deity of Krishna is installed and people are engaged in the service of Krishna. Now, you can make your home into a temple and then it becomes spiritualized if you make Krishna the center. And even a temple can become material if the consciousness of the people is just to exploit the facility for their own benefit and not serve Krishna. So, it is really the consciousness that makes the difference.

So, I am using a microphone, but if I am using it to speak the message of Krishna then it is not going to entangle me in the material world. That if I am using it to for some popular song to get money or women, it is going to entangle me, it is a material thing. But if I am using it to broadcast the message of Krishna without any personal motive to get something for myself, then it will not entangle me. So, you can live and other than an extremely rare soul, one in a million, or one in ten million, one in a hundred million, pretty much no one now can live just in the forest or in a cave. They are going to have some dwelling place, but that is not necessarily going to bind them to the material world, if they use it to keep their body and soul together, so they can serve God. So, everything is dependent on the consciousness. So, the work or the trick is to change the consciousness. It is not a question of where you live, where or how you travel, it is the consciousness.

Someone could be walking barefoot on the street and be very materialistic in his consciousness and someone could be riding in a Limousine and be spiritual in his consciousness. So, it is not the material things that entangle us and bind us, but it is our consciousness. But that said, a devotee does try to keep his life simple. That’s also true. We do not want to spend money unnecessarily on comforts for the body, but for Krishna we can spend a lot. I mean they are probably are not many rich men that have spent as much on their houses as we have spent on this temple. But their purpose is different generally. So, it is very subtle and it is very deep, I mean it is very easy, I mean relatively easy to give away material things. It is not that easy, but it is easier than giving up the desire to enjoy material things.

But that is the other point that the impersonalists, they want to give up the desire to enjoy material things but they do not have anything to take its place. But we have something beautiful and that is service to God which includes service to His parts and parcels.

Devotee: Thank you, Maharaja. It is an important topic.

Giriraj Swami: It is vital.

Devotee: It is almost like stepping through a mirror to see the true reflection, you know what I mean? It is like if you try to reference your resistance based on what you are experiencing and seeing in the material world. It is like looking through a mirror. 

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, that is true, that is true. We are not seeing things as they are, that is true.

Devotee: How do we get passed that?

Giriraj Swami: Getting past that is achieved by chanting. It is not something that you can do with your mind or intelligence.

Devotee: Surrendering again.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, I mean the chanting, because you used that example of a mirror, it reminded me of a verse by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And He says that the chanting cleanses the dust from the mirror of the mind. As long as there is dust, we can’t really see who we are in the mirror. But when the dust is removed, then we can see who we are. So, it is like our senses are covered by material contamination and chanting and the process of bhakti-yoga in general removes the coverings. And then we can see things as they are, hear things as they are, feel things as they are. Yeah, we are in a covered state. Yeah, we do not see things as they are. And if we did, we would see that everyone is Krishna’s certainly. We would not see them as objects for our gratification.

One godbrother said that we go through life, most people go through life as if it were a movie and they are the hero. And they want everyone else to play supporting roles to enhance their glory and enjoyment as the hero. And you have, how many billion people? And each one is thinking I am the center, you are meant to support me. And they are always in conflict because “no, no, you are not the center, I am the center. You are supposed to. . .” So, when that covering is removed, then we see Krishna is the center and we are all just insignificant servants of Krishna. Insignificant means small, but we have significance—the servants of Krishna, but we are tiny.

Any other questions or comments?

Now well you have already had prasāda, I mean those who came on time. Now, what is the difference between prasāda and regular food? It is the same ingredients. Rice, wheat, vegetables, sugar. Can anyone answer what is the difference?

Devotee: The consciousness, because it is offered to the Deities, for Krishna. It is the intention that goes into the food.

Giriraj Swami: That’s it. It is prepared for Krishna and it is offered to Krishna. And if it is prepared properly and offered properly, Krishna accepts it. And then the prasāda is, the word prasāda means literally mercy, we accept it as His mercy. So that principle extends to everything, that it begins as material but if it is offered in the mood of service to Krishna and if Krishna accepts the offering, if Krishna accepts the service, then it becomes spiritualized.

Devotee: Is it also a change to a material thing? Communion. It is kind of interesting because in Christianity, we offer the bread and wine. . .

Giriraj Swami: That is right, that is right.

Devotee: Is there a reaction with the Lord?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, it is, it is but we do not offer wine. But we have better things to offer.

Devotee: [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Okay, what about grape juice? Oh, what is wrong with grape juice? They added a little something to make it, but anyway that is all right, they are thinking of God and they are trying to come close to God. So, we do honor that and appreciate that and respect them.

Devotee: So, what about the notion that when you are leading communion, you are nourishing yourself with the body of God. Is that the same as prasādam as it comes from the material part of that [Unintelligible]

Giriraj Swami: Well, we offer the food to God and He eats it. And it becomes spiritualized. And then by our eating that prasāda we become purified or spiritualized. I mean if you want to go into it in a very sort of esoteric way, you can. But the basic idea is that you are offering to God with love and devotion, He accepts it, He eats it and it becomes spiritualized by His touch. And then by your eating it you become purified.

The Bhagavad-gītā says that those who prepare food just for their own nourishment or sense gratification are eating lumps of sin. I mean that should be defined, but those who eat the remnants of food that have been offered in sacrifice to God, they become purified of all sins. That is a very important part of our process.

I think we have covered a lot, there is our master of ceremonies and think we should move along.