All Questions Answered: The Cause of All Causes

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. How many of you have come for the first time? And for how many of you is this the second or third time? Okay. Well, maybe we’ll begin by asking you if you have any questions. I won’t answer them one at a time, but I’ll just get a general sense of what questions you have. Any volunteers? Yes?

Guest 1: I see some of the actual practitioners of Hare Krishna here.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Guest 1: And they have something so bright about them, so shiny. [laughter] And I was just wondering, what do you have to do to get that? I know it sounds. . .

Giriraj Swami: Okay, that’s a good question. Any other questions?

Guest 2: How do you find out exactly what your purpose is? I mean, in Hare Krishna, your career, where you’re supposed to be helping?

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Guest 3: To be clear, just talk a little bit about the difference between the Hare Krishna movement and more traditional ideas of Vedanta? I see I learn quicker through Hare Krishna movement than most other movements. It seems there’s other things that Hare Krishna doesn’t address, or does it its own way.

Giriraj Swami: Can you repeat the last part?

Guest 3: Well, I’m just curious about the difference between the more traditional Vedanta. The stuff I’ve read is pretty naive, but I see it repeated again in the Hare Krishna movement, usually more succinctly like diet and Ayurveda, for example. Is the only source for this type of knowledge through Krishna, or can it be acquired outside of Krishna? Does that make sense? I mean, there’s a lot of stuff I’ve read outside of it, it’s nothing Krishna movement is against, it just doesn’t address it somehow in the traditional way. Does that make sense? How does the Hare Krishna movement fit into that, is probably what I’m asking. Does it play the role of the Evangelical Christians? What is the way of characterizing it?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, in a way.

Guest 3: Yeah, for example, you see worship of Krishna in Rajasthan, but you don’t see ISKCON Movement particularly. I guess what I’m really asking is what role does ISKCON play with other worshippers of Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Are there any other questions?

Guest 4: How can one take the joy that’s found here into the rest of the time and space that we occupy outside of here?

Giriraj Swami: That’s a very good question. Any other questions? Is this your first time here?

Guest 3: No.

Giriraj Swami: So, we’ll start at the beginning of something that has no beginning. The Vedānta-sūtra begins athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādy asya yataḥ. Athāto means therefore, and in particular, it means, “Now that you have come to the human form of life, you should inquire into the Absolute Truth.” And the Absolute Truth is defined, janmādy asya yataḥ, as that from which everything emanates. And the natural commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins with the same line, janmādy asya yataḥ.

So, what is that from which or from whom everything emanates? This is a very important question, because according to the origin of ourselves and everything else, we can understand the purpose of our existence. So, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam explains in detail that that from which everything emanates is conscious and is all-knowing, is conscious of everything directly and indirectly, and is tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye, and He imparted knowledge in the heart of Brahma, who is the secondary creator of the universe.

Now, that person is identified as Krishna. Now, because we are conditioned in the material world, our experience of persons is of conditioned souls who are limited and whose bodies are temporary. So, when we hear that the Absolute Truth, or that the origin of all that is, is a person, we have difficulty, because our experiences of persons are like the people in this room; limited and temporary. But Krishna is neither limited nor temporary. We are limited in the sense that we can be in only one place at a time. If we’re here in Dallas, we cannot, at the same time, be in Houston or New York or London or Bombay.

But Krishna is a person, but He’s simultaneously in Dallas, Houston, New York, London, Bombay. He’s within every atom, He’s within the space, within the atoms and between the atoms, He’s everywhere. And in the material world, everything material has a beginning and an end. But Krishna is eternal, and eternal means without a beginning and without an end. And the Bhagavad-gītā, which is the basic textbook of yoga, explains that we, the living beings, also have no beginning and no end, because we are eternal fragmental parts of Krishna.

So, that means, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, that when the body dies, we, the ātmā, the soul within the body, does not die. We can also understand this fact by applying logic and reason. According to the Bhagavad-gītā, consciousness is the energy of the ātmā. The ātmā is located in the region of the heart, but the consciousness is spread throughout the body, just like the sun is located in a certain position, but the sunshine pervades the sky. So, my consciousness pervades my body. I am conscious of the pains and pleasures within my body, but I’m not conscious of the pains and pleasures in your body. But Krishna is conscious of the pains and pleasures within every body. And that is the difference between the individual consciousness of the ātmā, or jīvātmā, and that of the Supreme Consciousness, or Paramātmā.

It is our natural function to serve the complete whole. It’s always such that the function of the part is to serve the whole. For example, my hand is part of my body, so the hand is meant to serve the body. If it is not engaged in serving the body, it’s diseased, paralyzed, something wrong. So, because we are part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, we are meant to serve the Supreme Soul. And if we are not engaged in service to the Supreme, we are in a diseased condition. And in fact, pretty much everyone within the material world is in the diseased condition, because we come into the material world because of our failure to, or a refusal to act in our constitutional position as eternal servants of Krishna.

So, Krishna consciousness is the original consciousness of the living being before He comes into the material atmosphere. And the process of bhakti-yoga, which we practice, is meant to revive or awaken our original consciousness. And when our original consciousness is awakened, we realize that we are not the body, that we have nothing inherent to do with the body or with the material world, but we are part and parcel of Krishna, and our real relationship is not with the body or the material world, but with Krishna. And when we awaken to our Krishna consciousness, we become happy and satisfied.

There is one story—story means history—related in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, about a young boy of five years of age. [Unintelligible 00:17:31], Yamuna, how old are you? How old? Six?

Child 1: Eight.

Giriraj Swami: Eight? And I forgot your name, how old are you? From Phoenix?

Child 2: Seven.

Giriraj Swami: Seven. And how old are you?

Child 3: Eight.

Giriraj Swami: Eight, okay.

So, this boy was five, and his father was a king. And in that culture, a king could have more than one wife, and he had two. So, the boy, Dhruva, was playing on the lap of his father, who was sitting on the throne as the king. And the king’s co-wife, not Dhruva’s mother, became very angry that Dhruva was sitting on the king’s lap on the throne, and she dragged him off of the throne, off of his father’s lap, and said, “You cannot sit on the throne, because you were not born from my womb.” And the king, due to his excessive attachment to that co-wife, said nothing in protest, although within his heart, he felt bad. But because of excessive attachment and weakness, he said nothing.

So, Dhruva went home to his mother and told her what happened, and asked if she could help. And she said, “My son, I cannot help you because your father favors his other wife.” He said, “Well, then who can help me?” And she said, “I think only God can help.” He said, “Well, where can I find God?” She said, “Well, many sages and saintly persons go to the forest to find God, so maybe you can find Him there.”

So, at the age of five, he left home and went to the forest, and he was looking for God. In the way of a child, he was looking in the bushes, looking behind logs, looking under rocks. And God, who is in the heart of every living entity, understood, “This boy is very eager to find Me.” And this is a principle, or a truth, that when God sees that someone is eager to find Him, He helps. So, God helped by sending Dhruva a spiritual master. God, from within the heart of a pure devotee named Narada, informed him, “The boy, Dhruva, is in the forest, and you should go to him. He’s looking for Me. You should go to him.”

So, Narada went, and he tested Dhruva. This is  also a part of the process, that Krishna, through the guru, will test the candidate. So, Narada said, “You’re only five years old. At your age, children play and have fun. So, you should go home, and you should play with the other children. Don’t take it so seriously that your stepmother insulted you and said that you would not be allowed to sit on the throne because you were not born of her womb. So, you should go home, and later, if you still have the desire, you can come to the forest, too.” So, Dhruva replied, “Your instructions are very proper, but unfortunately, I cannot follow them. I want to find God now, and if you could help me find God now, I will welcome your help. But if you’re going to tell me to go home, then you can go home.”

Then, Narada understood that this candidate is very serious, and he gave Dhruva a mantra with the holy name of God, and instructions on how to live his life and chant the mantra. And within maybe six months, Dhruva became so advanced in chanting the mantra and following the other instructions given to him by Narada, that God came, Krishna came. And Dhruva was overwhelmed with ecstatic love on seeing the Lord. And the Lord touched him on the head, and thus, Dhruva was able to offer many beautiful prayers to the Lord.

So then, Krishna asked Dhruva to accept some benediction. Then, Dhruva replied, “I don’t want any benediction, I only want to serve You.” And the Lord replied, “But what about your kingdom? You came to the forest and performed austerities to realize Me in order to get your kingdom.” And Dhruva replied, “That kingdom was like a piece of broken glass compared to You. In You, I have found the most valuable jewels.”

So, svāmin kṛtārtho ‘smi varaṁ na yāce, “My Lord, I am completely satisfied, and I have no other desire. I do not desire any benediction.” So, this is the value of Krishna consciousness, that when one attains Krishna consciousness, he is fully satisfied, and he does not want anything else. No more hankering; no more cheating; no more pickpocketing; no more stealing. Fully satisfied.

There’s another story—history—about Alexander the Great, who was going everywhere and conquering. And eventually, he came to the precincts of India, and he found a yogi who was sitting in meditation in the middle of the day, in the hot sun, and he was very impressed. So, he got down, and he approached the yogi, and he said, “I’m Alexander the Great, the conqueror of the world, and I’m very impressed by you. And I’m ready to give you anything you want, just ask me; just tell me what you want.” And the yogi replied, “I just want you to move aside because you’re blocking the sun.” [laughter] Then, Alexander was even more impressed, and he sent letters or messages back to his generals who were following behind him, “These people here are very special, don’t mess with them.”

So, this is real happiness; this is real satisfaction. You have nothing to gain from anyone because you’re getting everything from Krishna, and you have nothing to lose at the hands of anyone because nobody can take Krishna away from you; nobody can take Krishna consciousness away from you. So, you are equipoised, because you have nothing to gain and nothing to lose, because you already have whatever there is to gain, and it cannot be taken away from you. So, this is the greatest service to ourselves and to others: to give them something that is so great that once receiving it, they want nothing else; there’s nothing more to want, to desire.

So, in essence, the process that Dhruva Maharaja followed is the same process that we follow. But in a way, that we can follow. We don’t have the capacity to go to the forest, perform austerities like Dhruva, but we do have the capacity to chant mantra with the holy name of Krishna, following other instructions related to the chanting, and we can also realize God and experience the same benefit.

So, just to explain a little about the chanting, because God is absolute, His name and He are the same. In the material world, or the relative world, the name of a thing and the thing are different. For example, if I’m thirsty, if I’m in the desert, and if I chant, “Water, water, water, water,” chanting, “Water, water, water, water” will not quench my thirst, because the word ‘water’ and the substance water are different. But in the absolute realm, or the spiritual realm, the name and the substance are the same. So, when we chant, “Krishna, Krishna, Hare Krishna,” Krishna is actually present, dancing on your tongue. And because Krishna is all pure, by chanting with attention, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, our hearts become purified. All the dirty things within the heart become cleansed.

And what do we mean by dirty things? What does the verse mean? Dirty things mean our ignorance, our illusion; thinking, “I’m the body and everything related to the body is mine.” Because we’re not the body, and nothing belongs to you. It belongs to Krishna, because He’s the origin of everything. And when we come into this false identification with the body, we think that we are the enjoyers, we are the controllers, we are the proprietors. And actually, Krishna is the enjoyer; He is the proprietor; He is the controller. So, when we give up that false identification, that false ego, then we can come to our real identity as the eternal servants of Krishna, and then we are peaceful and satisfied. And it’s very easy. We did it at the beginning of the program. Chanting is very easy and very pleasurable. And that is the most essential process for realizing ourselves; and realizing God. Yes?

Guest: The prayer beads I’ve been using since I started doing mantras, they actually just broke this Monday. I was wondering if I should just start using a new set or try and fix the old ones. Because I know it’s considered your connection with God. The prayer beads are kind of a medium to connect with God.

Giriraj Swami: Yes, that’s a very important point. There are actually two ways of chanting. I mean, chanting is chanting, but one way is singing with musical instruments and melody, that’s called kirtan, and the other way is called japa, that is chanting quietly, just loud enough for you to hear yourself chanting. I mean, it can be louder, it can be loud enough for others to hear, but it’s mainly loud enough for you to hear.

And as I mentioned earlier, it is a type of meditation. Meditation means to fix the mind on the object of meditation. And so, to help fix the mind during the soft chanting, we have these beads. And while we’re chanting, we turn the beads between our fingers, and this engages the sense of touch. The idea is that the more the senses are engaged, the more the mind becomes fixed. So, by chanting on the beads, we’re engaging the sense of touch. And of course, we are hearing the mantras, so we’re engaging the sense of hearing. And if two senses are firmly engaged, then the mind can be fixed. And as a regular practice, we chant a certain number of times. And in addition to engaging the sense of touch, the beads also allow us to count how many times we’ve chanted. It’s like exercise; push-ups or sit-ups. People keep track of their repetitions because that’s how they build up their strength.

So, our spiritual teacher, Srila Prabhupada, set the minimum number of sixteen times around, and each round has 108 beads, so that is 108 mantras as the minimum for initiated disciples. But very few people begin straight away with sixteen. They can begin with one round, or two, or four. And by adhering to that minimum, they build up their spiritual strength, and then they can increase and eventually, come to sixteen, or maybe more than sixteen. Yes?

Guest: So, as long as the beads have 108 beads, it’s okay to chant on them? If you use a broken pair of japa beads but still chant the sixteen rounds on them, is it okay? Does it still give you the spiritual benefit?

Giriraj Swami: What is your name?

Guest: Ashton.

Giriraj Swami: Ashton. As Ashton said, the beads are our connection with Krishna. It’s really the chanting that’s our connection with Krishna, but the beads are part of the chanting, so they’re our connection with Krishna. And so, we want to take care of our beads very carefully. And yes, temporarily, as long as you’re chanting 108, it’s all right. But we don’t want to keep broken beads. We should either re-string them or get a new set, because we want our attention to be on Krishna, on the mantra, not fiddling around with the beads and trying to make sure that we’re completing the proper number. We want to keep it simple so we can focus on Krishna. Yes?

Guest: Does the type of beads matter? Like sandalwood, or tulasi, or rosewood. I know in the ISKCON movement, we normally use tulasi, but is that a specific standard, or is that just. . . Can we use other beads to chant on?

Giriraj Swami: You can use other beads, but tulasi is a very sacred plant, dear to Krishna, and so there's an added benefit if you chant on tulasi. But what I have got from the way you phrased your question, and the way this gentleman praised his question, I think there’s a lack of clarity on what the origin of this knowledge is. We were discussing the origin of everything is Krishna, and so He’s also the origin of this knowledge. ISKCON is an organization that is meant to facilitate the education of people in knowledge, but there’s nothing in ISKCON that Srila Prabhupada made up. He is presenting what Krishna said in the Bhagavad-gītā 5,000 years ago, and before that, millions of years earlier.

So, there is a book called The Nectar of Devotion. That’s the translation of the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which is the complete science of bhakti-yoga. And the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu was compiled about 500 years ago by Srila Rupa Gosvami, who was a direct disciple of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who’s actually Krishna in the role of a devotee. But all of the principles that he annunciates in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu are supported with quotations from various sacred texts that are thousands of years old.

So, this is a very important and basic principle, that we don’t make up anything new. We simply repeat the perfect instructions that have come to us from Krishna through disciplic succession and through the Vedic literature. So, you said in ISKCON, we chant on tulasi. It’s not in ISKCON. Any devotee of Krishna will chant on tulasi beads. This is not something from ISKCON or from me or Nityananda Chandra or Srila Prabhupada. Yes?

Guest: I was wondering if the Vedic literatures refer to anything about spirits that still linger in the earth. Kind of like ghosts, for lack of a better word. And if they’re good or bad?

Giriraj Swami: There are ghosts, but what is the significance?

Guest: Do Vedic literatures talk about them?

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Guest: And what do they do, and what do Vedic literatures say about them?

Giriraj Swami: I could answer your question, but to really answer properly and in detail would take some time. Maybe next week? But next week, I could read a verse that mentions ghosts.

Guest: That’d be cool. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: And we can have an elaborate discussion of ghosts.

Guest: Perfect. Are ghosts the street people of the spiritual world?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, they’re not in the spiritual world.

Guest: But they’re not quite in this world either.

Giriraj Swami: Well, they are. Alright, I guess I can just give a very brief answer. So, we discussed that there’s the body, and then the ātmā. The body’s material, and the ātmā is spiritual. And then there’s karma. So, the body is actually composed of two types of matter. This is in the Bhagavad-gītā. There’s gross matter, which is solids, liquids, gasses, and then there’s subtle matter, which is the mind, the intelligence, and the ego. And then, beyond the subtle matter is the ātmā.

Now, when the soul leaves the body, it doesn’t die, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, it continues to exist. And what happens to it when it leaves the body? Well, that depends on our activities during our life, and our thoughts at the time of death. And it’s described that the subtle body carries the soul to the next gross body. Because when we die, we leave behind the gross body, but the subtle body, our mentality, stays with us and accompanies us into the next body. And there are 8,400,000 species of life, and one will get a body according to his karma and his thoughts at the time of death.

Now, a ghost is a living entity that has a subtle body, but no gross body. And how does someone become a ghost? Generally, it can happen in one of two ways. One, from committing suicide. Suicide means, in effect, that you don’t want a gross body. And God is very kind. He fulfills the desires of the living entities. So, if the living entity commits suicide, it means he doesn’t want a gross body. So, he has only a subtle body, but he has gross material desires. Generally, someone will commit suicide because he has material desires that are frustrated. So, out of frustration and disappointment, he commits suicide. So, in the body of a ghost, he’s even more tormented, because he has all the material desires, but he doesn’t have a physical body with which to fulfill them. Therefore, ghosts try to possess other people’s bodies so they can fulfill their gross desires through someone else’s gross body, because they don’t have a gross body.

Guest: That’s crazy. [laughter]

Giriraj Swami: What do you mean by crazy? [laughter]

Guest: It’s cool, it was never explained like that before.

Giriraj Swami: Okay, so I’ll just explain the other case in which someone could become a ghost. And that is when someone is very attached to something inanimate. You’ve heard of haunted houses, castles, big mansions. So, the owner of the mansion or the castle, if he’s so attached to that building, so at the time of death, he might be thinking of his castle, or his mansion. You can’t take birth as a castle, it’s not one of the forms of life, it’s not a species of life. So, he can’t get the body of a castle, but he can live as a ghost in the castle. And that’s why many castles are known to be haunted by ghosts, because their owners are so attached to them, they die thinking of their castle, and then they come back as ghosts.

Guest: Are they stuck that way forever, or do they eventually get a body?

Giriraj Swami: They can get a body. In fact, there are things that we can do to help ghosts, and the main thing that we can do to help any living entity in any condition is to chant the holy name; chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. And it happened in the history of the movement that there were some very big properties that were haunted, and they were available cheap because people didn’t want to buy a haunted mansion. [laughter] So, the devotees asked Srila Prabhupada, and he said, “You can buy it, and if you do kirtan, then the ghost will go away.” And we got these big properties for a low price.

Guest: Do you know if Kalachandji is one of those properties?

Giriraj Swami: And we chanted. And by hearing the chanting, it will create a situation that’s favorable for the ghost to get a body and then lead a normal life again.

Well, this was a church. I suppose there could be haunted churches, but we were hoping that God [Unintelligible 00:55:13] and it wouldn’t be haunted with ghosts.

Guest: My friend, Diana, came here for the first time a long time ago, and she walked in the temple room with her friends without seeing anybody at the temple, and she said she saw Srila Prabhupada blink. And then, she thought he was a real person. And then, she met Chandra later on, and he was like, “Oh no, that’s a statue.” And she was like, “Oh!”

Guest: The same thing happened to me. I thought he was real. I was like, “Oh, I’m gonna go up and say hi after.” [laughter]. But yeah, I realized it’s a statue.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah, it’s very life-like. And he is real.

Guest: He’s a real person.

Giriraj Swami: I was in Bombay for many years, and we had the same kind of Deity, and people would just gather around and they’d talk among, “When’s he going to speak?” And they wanted to know when he was going to give the lecture.

Guest: What was Prabhupada’s personality like? I see you met him.

Giriraj Swami: Yes.

Guest: Could you speak a little about what he was like as a person?

Giriraj Swami: Yeah. But let me just say one more thing about this principle of paramparā, or disciplic succession. I alluded to it, but. . . So, an essential part of his qualification was to have a spiritual master. You can’t just come out of nowhere and proclaim yourself to be a spiritual master. So, one who is a spiritual master has learned from his spiritual master; he repeats what he learned from his spiritual master. And Srila Prabhupada’s spiritual master had his spiritual master, and his spiritual master had his spiritual master. And there is a chain that went all the way back to Krishna. Krishna is the origin of everything, He’s the origin of perfect knowledge, and He’s the original spiritual master.

So, basically, we are all representing Krishna, or more specifically, our spiritual master who’s representing his spiritual master, who is representing his spiritual master, all the way back to Krishna. And Krishna has all good qualities. And so, a pure devotee of Krishna, he also has all the good qualities of Krishna, but in a minute quantity. Lord Chaitanya’s philosophy is achintya-bhedabheda-tattva, inconceivably, simultaneously, one and different. We are one in quality with God, but different in quantity. As Srila Prabhupada would say, God is infinite, and we are infinitesimal.

So, Srila Prabhupada, he manifested all those good qualities of Krishna. Every pure devotee manifests the qualities of Krishna. And it’s worth studying. I mean, there’s a book that I recommend called Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta. It’s a biography of Srila Prabhupada. But there have been many accounts about Srila Prabhupada, but Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta is unique in that it covers his entire lifetime. And from that book, you can get a sense of not only him, but also his spiritual master and other close predecessors. Because much of what he showed to us are things that he imbibed from his own spiritual master. But ultimately, they are all qualities of Krishna, but they’re just manifested a certain way to show mercy to the fallen souls; to reclaim the fallen souls. If you want to know, it would be worth reading Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta. Do you have your handbook?

Guest: I do.

Giriraj Swami: Yes?

Guest: [Unintelligible 01:01:11]

Giriraj Swami: Okay. Any other questions? Yes?

Guest: Earlier, when you were talking about things like suicide, things like that, I was wondering, is there any difference in what happens to you after you die, depending on the way that you die? I mean, I know that reincarnation is based on good karma, bad karma, lack of karma, but I was wondering if there is any change in what happens, if you died very quickly, opposed to a slow death, maybe to disease or old age. Is there any difference in what happens?

Giriraj Swami: Not per se, but everything that you do or everything that you experience affects your—Well, it was very interesting, you said good karma, bad karma, no karma. I think I should explain that a little for people who aren’t familiar with those concepts.

So, there’s three words in Sanskrit; karma, akarma, and vikarma. So, karma means material activities performed within the injunctions of the Vedas. So, in a way, you could call that good karma. And akarma means activities that do not bring any material reaction. Because any material reaction, whether good or bad, means that you have to take birth again. And whatever kind of body you get, you will suffer. Every living entity within the universe suffers, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, the pain of birth, disease, old age, and death. It doesn’t matter if you’re born as a prince or as a pauper. When you suffer disease, it’s the same. It’s no different being a prince or being a pauper.

So, karma means permitted activities, and vikarma means prohibited activities. And akarma means transcendental activities, there’s no reaction. Transcendental activities mean activities done for Krishna in bhakti-yoga.

So, vikarma, you will suffer. In any case, you suffer. As long as you’re in the material world, you suffer. But if you do vikarma, you might suffer as a pauper. If you do karma, you might suffer as a prince. But you’ll suffer. And as a devotee who engages in transcendental activities for the pleasure of the Lord, he doesn’t have to take birth again to suffer either the results of karma or vikarma. And with most people, it’s a combination. And therefore, our lives are a combination of pleasure and pain. But it’s only through transcendental activities there’s no more rebirth, no more suffering.

Guest: What happens to your consciousness when you are reborn again? Where does it go? Are you reunited with Krishna, or what happens to your consciousness?

Giriraj Swami: Well, like I mentioned, consciousness emanates from the ātmā. The ātmā is located in the region of the heart, and the consciousness is spread through the body. So, I think what you’re really asking is what happens to the ātmā that leaves the body in pure consciousness. So, that ātmā will go to Krishna. Like we discussed, Krishna as a person, and we are persons.

There is a school of thought—in fact, you can find it everywhere in one form or another—in which the candidate wants to merge and become one with God or enter into the void; somehow or other, give up his or her individual identity. And that is a type of spiritual suicide; just give up your individual existence. And that is a sort of natural response to frustration in the material world. It’s not like the gross suicide that we discussed, but it’s spiritual suicide, where you want to merge and become one with God; one with the light; to disappear in the void.

But that is not real liberation. Real liberation means to be. . . If you’re diseased, and  you suffer. So, say you have a high fever, so you want to bring down the fever. You bring down your fever, and then just lie in bed. That’s not really being cured. Really being cured means you get out of bed, and you do normal, healthy activities. So, devotional service, bhakti-yoga, devotional service are the normal healthy activities of the pure liberated soul. And a pure devotee, he doesn’t actually desire liberation, because he already is liberated. He doesn’t desire to go to Krishna, because he’s already with Krishna. But generally, when the pure devotee leaves his body, Krishna will bring him to Krishna’s abode in the spiritual realm, and there you will engage in loving reciprocation with Krishna.

Just like here. Nobody can be happy alone. I mean, you might have a billion dollars, but if you have no person to share your life with, you won’t be happy. So, in the spiritual sky, Krishna has His abode, and He engages in loving pastimes with His pure devotees. And so, when you leave your body in purified consciousness, there’s no more karma, then you go to Krishna.

Guest: As we happily surrender to a joy [Unintelligible 01:10:01]. Is there some system or value that you can share with us?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. So, there’s two points. By chanting and following the other principles that we follow here, you can strengthen your consciousness, so that consciousness is with you more than it might otherwise be. And the other thing is that Krishna, He’s our origin. In a way, you could say He’s the Supreme Father, and we’re the rebellious children who ran away from home, and now we’re suffering away from our Father. So, if we can bring others to Krishna, that pleases Krishna a lot. So, that’s a very important way to please Krishna.

And at the end of the Bhagavad-gītā, He says, “Those who explain this secret of the Bhagavad-gītā, they are My dear most servants, and in the end, they will come back to Me.” So, that’s definitely a characteristic of Srila Prabhupada and his spiritual master and his spiritual master’s spiritual master, that they worked blissfully but also tirelessly to bring others back to Krishna. And so, if you do that, that will help you to stay in that spiritual realm of devotional service.

Guest: Is that why we keep coming back to [Unintelligible 01:12:52] material life?

Giriraj Swami: Yes, exactly. You keep taking birth again and again and again and again until you become Krishna consciousness and go back Home, back to Godhead.

Guest: [Unintelligible 01:13:07]

Giriraj Swami: Yes, very good. Yeah, we’re pretty stupid. [laughter] Very, very stupid. But still, what’s done is done. We’re drowning in the ocean, and then the devotees come along with the boat to rescue us. So, we should just feel happy that the boat has come, “How could I have been so stupid to have jumped into this ocean? That was so stupid.” Well, it was, but now the boat has come. [laughter] Let’s not be too preoccupied with that and just get on the boat. [laughter]

Guest: [Unintelligible 01:14:15].

Giriraj Swami: That’s a very good question. It is said that when a spiritual master accepts a disciple, he promises to deliver that disciple from the material world to Krishna, and even if the disciple is not completely successful in the present lifetime, the spiritual master will come back to deliver that disciple. Now, that’s a very deep statement. It’s a very strong commitment, and it’s a very deep statement. But he is responsible.

Now, when the disciple surrenders to the spiritual master, the spiritual master takes responsibility. But even if the spiritual master has left his body, and has gone to Krishna, because everything is personal, so it’s between the spiritual master and Krishna that, “Okay, these are my disciples, and they’re still in the material world. They need help.” And the spiritual master is certainly willing to come back, but Krishna may say, “No, you remain here with Me. I’ll arrange for someone else.” So, somehow, between the spiritual master and Krishna arrangements are made so that the disciples of the spiritual master will continue to get the guidance they need in order to be completely successful.

Guest: He’s your spiritual master?

Giriraj Swami: Yes. Yes?

Guest: So, Srila Prabhupada is pure, so he went back to Godhead. He won’t come back here, right? He won’t take another body. Once you’re with God, then you won’t come back, right?

Giriraj Swami: Well, you don’t fall down into the material world again, but out of compassion, he may come again. And when he does come. he may appear like an ordinary human being. But he’s not, because he’s coming from Krishna. I mean, he will resemble an ordinary human being, but he won’t be an ordinary human being.

Guest: And he won’t look like Srila Prabhupada. He can’t have the same body, right?

Giriraj Swami: No, no, no. Anyway, someone who’s liberated and who’s inspired by Krishna, you could recognize him as the same person, but the body will not appear the same. And even otherwise, our bodies are always changing. The body you have now isn’t the body you had when you were five years old. If we passed around pictures of two-year-old babies and one of them was you, it’d be hard for us to guess which one was you, because our bodies are always changing.

Alright, well, very good questions; very interesting discussion. So, what next?

Devotee: We have our feast. It’s in the [Unintelligible 01:19:22]. And tonight is the first night of the sacred month of Kartik. So, from 8:00 to 8:40, they’re having amazing, beautiful candlelight kirtan [Unintelligible 01:19:37].

Giriraj Swami: Beautiful, wonderful, so, thank you very much. Hare Krishna.

Guests: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Then we will meet next Wednesday, I’ll be here. And maybe we’ll meet later tonight in the temple.