Program at Sethi’s House

Giriraj Swami: So, in our parikramā of Mumbai we have come to a very sacred place called Vrindavan. Actually, the house was built by Sri P. L. Sethi, and it is a holy place because Srila Prabhupada stayed here with so many of his early disciples and then later, Mr. Sethi and his family stayed here, they were also bringing devotees. When Mr. Sethi and his family first moved here, they arranged a program right here and Srila Prabhupada came, and I don’t remember everything he said, but one thing he said struck me. He was quoting a verse that said, “In that home where there is no quarrelling between husband and wife, where there is no wastage of fruit grains, in that house, the goddess of fortunate resides.” So, if you want to know how to get the goddess of fortune to reside in your home, there is the instruction.

So, even before the house was ready Srila Prabhupada and some disciples moved in one floor up because at the time, the Hare Krishna Land was in dispute and there was no proper place for Srila Prabhupada to stay there so Mr. Sethi offered that he could stay here. Now, maybe I should have asked earlier, but how many don’t speak English? Someone say in Hindi how many don’t speak English. Translate only one sentence.

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:03:29] [speaking in Hindi language]

Giriraj Swami: So, what should we do about them? You can take notes and when it is all over you can meet them in one corner.

Devotee: I request him if possible to take this mike and he is good at translation because some sound is not there. This mike is better than that.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. So, there is a whole history about Hare Krishna Land in Juhu, but the owner of the land, Mr. Nair entered an agreement to sell the land to Srila Prabhupada under certain conditions. And one of the conditions was that Srila Prabhupada should get permission from the charity commissioner for the sale, and prior to entering the agreement with Srila Prabhupada, Mr. Nair had entered an agreement to sell the front portion of the land, which was (vacant?) [Unintelligible 00:08:13], to another party named Chaddalal, and one of the conditions for that sale was that Chaddalal had to get permission from the municipality to subdivide the property. And apparently, Mr. Nair used his influence and money to make sure that Chaddalal didn’t get permission to get the subdivision. And so, on that grounds, Mr. Nair cancelled the agreement and kept the money that Chaddalal had given him.

So, with us he did a similar thing. Apparently again, he used his influence and money to make sure that we didn’t get the permission from the charity commissioner and then he canceled the agreement and was keeping our money, Srila Prabhupada’s money. So, there were many intrigues and many of the significant events in the history of the struggle took place in this house, [Unintelligible 00:10:11] where Srila Prabhupada was staying. One of the significant events was that after the sales agreement was cancelled by Nair, he died and his widow Mrs. Nair, she was already the owner, actually, the land was in her name so she was the authority, and she was asking for a much higher price to revive the agreement. So, for a long time it seemed like we didn’t really have any friends in high places in the government. But then we heard that the mayor of Mumbai, R. K. Ganatra has spoken favorably about us in a big public gathering at Chowpatty and he said that, “People say so many things about the Hare Krishna people but they are actually good people and they are victims of bad people.” So, I was encouraged by this and I decided to see the mayor in his office. And when I went to his office, I was very encouraged because there was a sign in devanāgarī script over the door, “Satyameva Jayate, Truth will prevail," so I thought that this is a very good sign for us. So, we met him and he was ready to help in any way he could.

So, when it came to negotiating with Mrs. Nair how to revive the sales agreement, he came. And so, Srila Prabhupada was, sort of, this end of this corner and Mrs. Nair was the opposite corner, there were two rooms, and mayor Ganatra was going back and forth between the two rooms, and he asked Srila Prabhupada, “How much are you willing to give?” And Srila Prabhupada gave a figure and he said, “I think you are going to have to go higher but I will see what she says.” So, then he went to her and said, “How much are you willing to accept?” So, he was going back and forth telling us that she wanted twenty-five lakhs or twenty lakhs, some huge amount that was way more than the original agreement, and it seemed like there was an insurmountable gap. It was just going on, it was agonizing, and then, suddenly, Mr. Ganatra said, “You both agree.” And what he had been doing, I think, is understating how much we were willing to pay to get her to come down and overstating how much she was demanding to get us to come up, and it was, going back and forth and for me it was agonizing and then I thought for Prabhupada it was definitely agonizing because it seemed like there was such a huge gap it could never be compromised. And then he said, “You both agree.” So, that was a great achievement that took place upstairs.

So then, the next question was, “What to do about Chaddalal?” Chaddalal was not the man’s name, it was the name of the company, that is Chaddalal and Sons, but the actual owner; they are the father and son but, the real, experienced businessman, you could see he is a real, seasoned veteran, was named Shantilal Mehta. So, he came here, to this house, upstairs to meet Srila Prabhupada and, as I mentioned, he was experienced in the world and I believe that he took Srila Prabhupada as, a simple sadhu and he thought, This is going to be very easy. So, he came in, sat down, you could see he was very confident and assured of himself. So, he said to Srila Prabhupada, “So, who will take the land?” and Srila Prabhupada without skipping a beat, without a moment’s hesitation said, “I will," and Shantilal Mehta was really taken aback. So, then he came back, known as a businessman, and he said, “Well, my claim is one lakh, twenty-five thousand rupees.” This was a lot back then; it was quite a bit more than he had paid Nair. “My claim is one lakh twenty-five thousand. Prabhupada said, “My claim was three lakhs. [laughter] So, Mr. Mehta was totally bewildered, he wasn’t expecting such a formidable negotiator across the table. So, then they discussed and settled on a figure, which was a little less than that Mr. Mehta had proposed and then the meeting was over. Often with Srila Prabhupada’s important guests, I would receive them and bring them up and then I would accompany them down to their cars. So, as I was walking down the stairs with Mr. Mehta, he couldn’t believe what happened, he kept shaking his head and saying, “Your guru is pukka, your guru is pukka.”

There were also some very sweet devotional moments here, one took place one morning, fairly early, Srila Prabhupada was sitting in his room in his usual fashion, he would have a low table and āsana on the floor, like a cushion on the floor and he spent a lot of time discussing the Juhu land, what to do about the Juhu land. And there are other indirectly related issues, one issue was devotees’ visas, what to do about their visas. So, he was discussing with some of the devotees and this laborer entered the room and we were really surprised. I say labor because he was quite muscular, he had just a little cloth around his waist and had a really darker complexion. And we didn’t know what he was going to do. And he entered the room and went right up to Srila Prabhupada’s desk and placed a big bunch of flowers on his desk and offered obeisance, put his head on the floor and stood up and looked at Srila Prabhupada and walked out. And Srila Prabhupada was so moved by this act that he couldn’t speak. He just looked down and closed his eyes and maybe a little choked up and he quoted the verse from the Bhagavad-gītā, “patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati." Krishna said, “If one offers me with love and devotion, a leaf, a fruit, a flower, or some water, I will accept it.” And Srila Prabhupada said that, “Even Krishna, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, accepts some leaves and flowers if they are offered with devotion, and I am just an insignificant living entity; I am just a fraction of a fraction of Krishna, so how much overwhelmed I will be by such an offering of love and devotion.”

And there were many instructive interactions with the devotees. In those days we didn’t have a telephone, not everyone had a telephone then, it took a long time. When we first came to India, but I am not saying it is true now, but Srila Prabhupada said that the Indian politicians are the most corrupt in the world and that to get a telephone you have to bribe a minister, five thousand rupees. So, there weren’t that many telephones around and we didn’t have one here but Srila Prabhupada was very concerned to get a message through to one of our advocates. He was like a devotee; he was a good friend named Sinshial Asanani. And it was probably six in the morning, it was just still dark, maybe even before six, and Tamal Krishna Goswami had to go maybe door-to-door in the neighborhood or find someone who would let him use their phone. So he called and Mrs. Asanani answered and Tamal Krishna Goswami said, “I have a message for Mr. Asanani from Srila Prabhupada. So she said, “Just a second.” Then she came back and gave the message that Mr. Asanani is doing his puja and he can’t come to the phone, so we should phone back later.

So, we were waiting and Tamal Krishna Goswami came back and he was in a bit of an angry mood and he said, “The pure devotee wants to give him a message and he is saying he is busy doing his puja? He can’t come to the telephone.” But Srila Prabhupada tried to pacify him or balance his response and he said, “Actually, in the beginning stage of devotional service it is good to be very rigid like that and to maintain your standard.” So yes, there were not many things happening but I think I will go ahead and tell some more about Mr. Sethi and what happened at his home after he moved in with his family. In the meantime, one of the tenants at Hare Krishna Land, Mr. Menon, well, it was a two-way deal. One of the tenants wanted to leave and so, we got that apartment for Srila Prabhupada, so he was finally able to have a place to stay at Hare Krishna Land.

So, Mr. Sethi moved here, which was good for us because he was closer to the land, and by profession he was a builder, and we were involved with construction and he was a devotee also, so he did much of the early work at Hare Krishna Land. Srila Prabhupada said that we should immediately construct a compound wall around the property, so he took that up and it was, sort of, a nice design with tiles with the maha-mantra at different intervals. We were having trouble getting permission for the actual temple and ashram and complex, so, Mr. Sethi was able to get permission to add one floor on the top of the existing buildings at the back of the land, which have now been demolished to make room for phase two. And so, Mr. Sethi took up that work and when the first two, what we call the E Block and the F Block, they were the larger ones on the far side of the garden, and so, Mr. Sethi took Srila Prabhupada up to see the quarters that he had built. And Srila Prabhupada gave instructions. Everyone would sleep on the floor, on a simple bedding and he said every morning they should roll up their bedding and wash the place where they slept. But the real striking statement that Srila Prabhupada made then was he told Mr. Sethi that it is the duty of the spiritual master to provide accommodations for the disciples. And he said that, “Just as you are building these rooms for my disciples here, at Hare Krishna Land, Lord Krishna is making your rooms ready in Vaikuntha.

Then many things happened. I wanted to tell the story but I need some help on this, of when Mr. Sethi was very sick and he thought he had to go to London to be operated. So, now, we are fortunate to have with us, well, it is a big family, all devotees, and this is Veru Sethi, Mr. P. L. Sethi’s grandson, so he will tell that story.

Veru Sethi: Hare Krishna, Maharaja, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. So, this goes like when my grandfather, he wasn’t too well and he was advised by the doctors to go and get operated outside India, in a foreign country.

Giriraj Swami: Get what operated?

Veru Sethi: He had a lot of back and hip problems so for that he needed to go and get an operation done because they said that over the years, he could be really critical, on the verge of, in fact, losing his life. So, my grandfather had already made all the arrangements and he was about to leave in the next couple of days. Then Prabhupada came and he said that, “You don’t need to go anywhere. All these things that they have put around you, the neck holders and the back straps and all that, you just need to take them out and just throw them away from the window.” [laughter] My grandfather was taken aback; he was such a big thing. “The doctor is saying that I won’t be alive and here Prabhupada is saying to just throw them out.”

So, all the family members were standing there, they were there wondering what to do and grandfather said, “I will do what Prabhupada says. I will not go there, cancel all my tickets and all that.” So, Prabhupada sat there he chanted over there, next to my grandfather. And then, later, when Prabhupada came to the temple, one of the devotees asked Prabhupada that, “You saved P. L. Sethi’s life?” So, he said, “No. Actually, over there at that time, at the spur of the moment I said that nothing will happen to you, but later I had to come back and I had to fight with Krishna that ‘I have given my word, now you have to keep mine.’” [laughter] [applause] [Unintelligible 00:36:05]. And it is not just that occasion, even when he left his body, whatever Prabhupada had promised him, my grandfather experienced all those things. So, Prabhupada’s mercy is obviously there. [applause]

Giriraj Swami: So, the sales agreement was revived, that is another chapter. It was revived and then Prabhupada’s disciples cancelled it. So, from a certain point of view, technically, we were trespassers but not really because Radha-Rasabihari went there and anything belongs to them.

So, as it happened, one morning a big truck with municipal workers came to Hare Krishna Land and there was another, a paddy wagon with police constables. So, I rushed forward and I said, “What can I do for you?” And he said, “This temple is unauthorized and we are going to demolish it.” So, I said, “No, we have permission.” “The permission has expired.” I said, “No, it is not, I met the municipal commissioner and he extended the permission and I can show you in my files the letter from the municipal commissioner.” So, I went and got it and showed it to him but he was not at all interested and he ordered the demolition to begin. So, all these municipal workers came out with sledgehammers and pickaxes and they started to dismantle the small temple we had. And one by one of the devotees went to obstruct them, they were taken and put in the police paddy wagon.

And then, there was one lady, very heroic, named Mañjarī. She was quite heavy set. So, she positioned herself in front of the doors to the deities and there was still a little respect a because she was a woman, but then they came and they grabbed her by the hair and they yanked her away. They put us all in the paddy wagon and took us to the Santa Cruz police station. And it was a horrible moment, but one devotee named, Manasi dasa, he was actually gujarati, he was one of the few qualified Indian devotees, so apparently, he was sort of hiding in the bushes watching it all and then, eventually, he put a call through to Bal Thackeray. And Bal Thackeray being a very religious Hindu and politician, saw this as a cause. So, as we heard it later, he phoned the municipal commission and he said, “What is this? You are demolishing a Hindu temple.” And the municipal commissioner tried to say something and Bal Thackeray replied, “Don’t forget who owns this city.” [laughter] “Okay, Balasaheb, okay.”

So, he phoned the K Ward Office and the ward officer, the head man in the whole office, he came running to Hare Krishna Land to stop the demolition. And then we were allowed to leave the Santa Cruz police station. We came back and we were still in anxiety because we didn’t know exactly what had happened but we saw that the deities were standing, they hadn’t been punched, a few little pieces of the asbestos sheets had been removed but the deities were not touched. And there was a picture of Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva in the triangular section above the door and it was just a little bit of steel was there and Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva protected them. So, then there was a big campaign to persuade the municipal corporation, to give us permission to rebuild the temple. At that time, the Shiva sena party was, I guess, they were in the majority. So, there is the most powerful committee, it is called the standing committee, so they condemned the act of the municipality and they said that the temple should be rebuilt at the municipality’s expense but it wasn’t so easy, it was complicated. So, in one meeting, it was one of those things, in one meeting one friend made the point that actually we don’t need to get permission to rebuild it because we already had the permission, so all we need to do is rebuild it, we don’t need the permission. All this time we were canvassing people to get support to get permission to rebuild it. So, it was Thursday night, it was very hard to get construction materials especially cement. There was a cement quota.

There is a video series called “Following Srila Prabhupada” by Yadubara dasa, I hope everyone has it and watches it. So, it was coming out one DVD at a time, and when His Holiness Niranjana Swami was staying with me in Santa Barbara, we watched maybe number three, whatever it was. And it described Srila Prabhupada’s first visit to Vrindavan with his devotees. There was a car and that is a car for Prabhupada and a bus for the devotees, and the devotees were so filled with eagerness and anticipation that they are going to Vrindavan for the first time with Srila Prabhupada and they were waiting; what Srila Prabhupada was saying. So, for most of the journey, until maybe they were just on the outskirts of Vraja, Srila Prabhupada was silent, he was just chanting japa, and then he cleared his throat, he was going to speak and the devotees were just waiting to hear what Prabhupada was saying. He cleared his throat and he said, “Cement, we have to get a quota for more cement.” [laughter] And when Niranjana Swami heard that he just laughed and said, “Srila Prabhupada” and it was so much like Srila Prabhupada.

So, we had that in Bombay but Mr. Sethi said, “I have some cement bags for my projects, we can use that, borrow it, you can use that," and Sariji Witalal, he was also very instrumental. His office became our camp during the campaign, his main business or his most visible business was his sweet ball shops, his sweet-meat shops, Punjabi Chandu Halwai Karachiwala. [laughter] Prabhupada called him the sweet ball king. But I think he also did some building on the side, so he said he had some cement bags, so it was all set that we would begin and just rebuilt it, we weren’t going to wait for anyone’s permission. And Mrs. Nair came to know and I can only guess that she has spies, otherwise how could she come to know? So, she went to the court, this is Friday, she went to the court to get an injunction to stop the reconstruction of the temple on the grounds that it was her property, she didn’t give us permission to build, whatever. And the way these things work, there is an injunction, then an interim injunction, like a temporary injunction until the first time you hear the whole case. So, her appeal came to Justice Nine, who had been a chief guest at our pandal program and he said, “I will not hear this case without the other side being present.” She said, “Well, at least grant an interim conjunction.” He said, “No, I will not grant any injunction without hearing the other side.”

So, we got the news so we knew we had two days to rebuild the temple because Monday morning the case was going to come up for hearing. So, just about that time, Satsvarupa dasa Goswami had come to visit for a few days and I really, very much appreciated Satsvarupa dasa Goswami. He was my first temple president when I joined in Boston and he is very humble. So, the construction began and all of Mrs. Nair’s people, allies, started coming. Her lawyer came and tried to serve some sort of notice, threatening notice. And Pushpakant Mhatre, the local corporator who was very close to Nair, he was like Nair’s adopted son and he was in the congress party, so he came. We were all there and he said, “Anyway, you can go ahead and build the temple but, in the night, I am going to come with a hundred guṇḍās and break it down.” And at that stage, Mr. Sethi turned to his son, Brijmohan, he said, “Brijmohan, bring my revolver and pistol.” [laughter] And then he told Mhatre, “A hundred guṇḍās is not enough, I have two hundred and fifty cartridges so you have to bring at least two hundred and fifty-one.” He had kshatriya side, he was a great devotee.

So, they were working, we had to work through the night and so, Tamal Krishna Goswami told me, “I want you to stay up all night and make sure the work is done.” So, I am not sure exactly everything that I had in my mind at the time, probably I didn’t want to have to stay up all night, but I was very enamored of Satsvarupa Maharaja’s persona, you could say, the personality, and so I said to Tamal Krishna Goswami, “I don’t know about this.” So, here is Brijmohan, just in time. [applause] All right, so, we are discussing the weekend when we had to rebuild the temple.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! His Holiness Giriraj Maharaja ki jaya!

Giriraj Swami: So, can you go back in time to that weekend in 1973? This was when Mhatre came and said, “You can build the temple but I will come with a hundred guṇḍās and break it down.” So, then what happened? [laughter]