Meeting with Students of Yoga and Ayurveda

Giriraj Swami: I would like to hear from all of you, what questions you have or what topics you would like to hear about? And then, I’ll incorporate that into my conversation with you.

Devotee: Maybe about your education, your experiences with that.

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: We’ve been talking a lot about bridging eastern and western wisdom and just like Americans now here Swami, is just sort of your experience with us to I guess ways of life, how we inform each other.

Giriraj Swami: Okay.

Devotee: Maybe you can speak of your experience or experience of your students. How to feel the spiritual discipline and an overall discipline of your life? I want to hear about, before all this, about your upbringing and when you came into Krishna consciousness.

Giriraj Swami: Okay. And what is your name?

Devotee: I’m Amy.

Giriraj Swami: Amy? We are beginning by hearing from you, if you have any questions or topics you’d like to hear about.

Devotee: I think, I basically pronounced my questions. I wanted to know what brought you to this?

Giriraj Swami: Okay. And your name?

Devotee: My name is Katherine.

Giriraj Swami: And do you have any questions or topics?

Devotee: I’d be interested to hear what brought you to this, as well.

Giriraj Swami: Good place to begin. Maybe I should ask how much time you have.

I was born, like most of us here, in Chicago, in 1947. And then, our family moved to the suburbs when I was eight. And somewhere around the age of eight or ten, I had an inkling that I was meant for something more than just the regular life that people were leading. I mean, I remember the moment very vividly. But I was very young, I didn’t have a clear idea of what it meant. And then, in high school, I think at that stage, I was looking to do good for others. And based on my understanding at the time, which was based more on the body, I thought that the way to help them would be to become a doctor.

So, I became the president of something like the Future Doctors Association. And then I went to university, and there I found one friend in particular, I think he really made me understand that a person could be in good health, but the pain he suffers in his mind can be even greater than the pain that one suffers in the body. And at the time, I didn’t know it, but I think in retrospect, he was depressed or maybe something like that. And that was in terms of others.

And in terms of myself, I was looking for perfect happiness, and gradually, I understood that. I was reading and attracted to different eastern philosophies and disciplines. And then it all came together in the psychology department, which was under the chairmanship of a man named Abraham Maslow, who was developing what they called the third force in psychology. The first was behaviorism, stimulus response, and the other was psychoanalysis. So, his idea was instead of studying rats and sick people, he would study healthy people. And so, he developed a whole theory, hierarchy of needs, and the idea of self-actualization and peak experiences.

But as far as my internal search, I came to understand that I needed a teacher, I couldn’t just do this by reading books. And then my focus became to find my teacher, my master.

So, at the university itself, they invited a lot of yogis and swamis, and in Boston there were many. But there was something inside me that made me keep looking. And then finally, I decided, “I’m not finding anyone here, I’m going to go to India.” So, my best friend and I decided we are going to go to India.

And then, I think, on March 31st, my senior year, Srila Prabhupada came to speak at the university. And that evening, I planned to go with some friends to see a movie in Harvard Square. And so, it was set that first, we will go to the lecture and then go to the movie, so we went. But there was quite a discussion what to do, whether to go or not. Some people didn’t want to go. So, we got there late, just in time for the kirtan and chanting.

It was amazing; the students were jumping up from their seats and leaping up onto the stage, or climbing up on to the stage where Prabhupada and other devotees were. And it was an amazing experience! The whole auditorium was reverberating with vibration.

But I hadn’t spoken with the swami, and so I told the disciples that I wanted to speak with the swami. He said that he is giving a talk. The routine was Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, he would speak at the ashram. And Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday, he would speak usually at a university or else some other place. So, I went, and then, at the end of the lecture, I raised my hand. And this was really the question that was consuming me. I asked, “There are so many swamis and yogis, and each one is advocating a different process of self-realization, and each one says his is the best. So, how do I know which is actually the best?”

Then he replied very intelligently, with another question, which was, “What is your goal?” Because I was saying, “What’s the end?” And yes, self-realization is a general idea, but he said, “What is your goal? Do you want to become God, or do you want to serve God?” And he said, “If you want to become God, that means you are not God now. And how can not God become God? God is always God. He doesn’t have to become God by yoga or meditation.”

And then he said, “Krishna is God. He is God when He is playing on the lap of Yasoda, He is God when He is speaking the Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, He is always God.” And then he said, “If you sow the seed of service to God and water it by chanting, then God will provide all the favorable conditions to make it grow. But if you want to become God, why should God help the competition?” So, he said, “You can become godly, but you cannot become God.” And then he said, “So, what do you think? Do you want to become God, or do you want to serve God?”

Now, this is a little, I want to say personal, subjective. At that time, I had the distinct feeling, an impression, that he was seeing straight through me, through the walls of the ashram, down the road to my apartment, he was looking right into my apartment, into my bathroom, to my wall where I had written with my own hand in lettering in different colors “You are God.” That was to, in case I forgot, remind me. So, I thought, Okay, well, this is my perfect master, this is what I was looking for.

But then, he asked me, “So, what is your goal? You want to become God, or you want to serve God?” So, I wanted to say, “I want to serve God.” I knew he knew everything, so I said, “I want to serve God, but actually, I realized I wanted to become God.” He said, “Yes.” That is when I knew that I found my master for whom I was looking for. And then, I think just one other, I mean, there were many experiences that sort of validated the process of bhakti-yoga, which I literally learned it was called bhakti-yoga.

And that was at one of the other universities. There were students, but also some faculty and staff. And at the end of the talk and questions and answers, there was saṅkīrtana. So, we were dancing in a circle in front of Prabhupada and I felt overwhelmed with feelings of love. I was just looking at the faces of the people in the room. I was just overwhelmed with feelings of love, and then that feeling sort of extended beyond the classroom of the hall, into the neighborhood, across the country, into the universe. I’ve never experienced anything like that.

And then getting fresh out of the universe, I didn’t have any personal experience, it was probably more than that, and then I went up to Prabhupada. I was just overcome, I’ve never really gone up to him, I’d ask questions. And I said, “This chanting is wonderful.” He just chuckled in a way I couldn’t understand, feeling so much ecstasy, and he said, “Thank you very much.”

So then, there was a program at the Harvard Divinity School, and at that time, the devotees didn’t have a car. The movement was pretty poor. They didn’t have a car, I mean, they had some different plates and cups, nothing matched. And a lot of them had holes in their socks. And I said, “Is this part of it? The poverty?” And they said, “No, this is all we have.” So, they saw that I was coming regularly and that I had a Station Wagon, and so they asked if I would drive Srila Prabhupada to the program. So, I said, “Yeah.”

So, we drove to Harvard Divinity School. And there were a lot of, I remember, questions and answers the students had. Some were challenging Prabhupada in way. They thought they were pretty smart. They probably were.

But one young man said, “You are saying that by chanting, all problems will be solved. But in Russia, there were people chanting the name of Jesus, but it didn’t really change anything. And what really changed things was the revolution.” And Prabhupada said, “Are the people in Russia happy now?” He said, “No.” “Then what was the use of that revolution?”

Then another one, “You are saying we should chant Hare Krishna, but couldn’t you just as well chant anything repetitively? Couldn’t you just chant one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three?” Then Prabhupada said, “Well, you can try counting, and after you are tired of counting, you can try chanting also.”

One by one, he was dealing with their questions. And then, one fellow asked, (I don’t remember, actually. It was one of those questions, I think) “Have you seen God?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “If I tell you falsely that I have seen God, will you believe me?” And the boy said, “No.” “Then what is the use of asking such a question?”

So, what I remember was the students were quite buzzing about the swami’s answers and I was just sort of relishing, just wandering amongst them and hearing them. And then, one of the devotees came running to me and said, “Prabhupada is waiting to go back.” And I had totally forgotten. So, I ran back to the car.

And when we got in the car and drove a little distance, I realized I didn’t know the way back. Because during the day it was light, and I sort of could find my way, but now it was dark. I didn’t want to give in, so I kept trying to figure it out, but as we were going further and further, I got the sinking feeling that we were lost and we might get more lost. So, I asked the devotees who had all piled in, “Does anyone know the way back?” But nobody knew the way back. Prabhupada was sitting in the passenger seat. He said, “Is not the driver supposed to know the way?”

Eventually, we somehow figured it back and I ran and opened the door, and I said, “I’m sorry that I got us lost.” He smiled with such compassion and love and he said, “That’s alright.” And that really touched me, because I’d seen how he sort of disposed the students. I mean, if he’d wanted to, he could have torn me into pieces in a moment. I thought, He has the perfect philosophy and a perfect process. He is also very compassionate. He can appreciate if someone’s making effort, even if he falls.

So then, there was one other little experience. And I had also been experimenting with different types of yoga and things, and so part of it was a sort of conscious relaxation. So, one night, the program went late, and the devotees said, “Why don’t you just spend the night with us?” So, we all just slept on the floor, and the next morning, when I woke up, I felt my body was so relaxed. Every single muscle seemed to be completely relaxed. I thought, Wow, all my conscious relaxation by spending one night in the ashram. I felt that.

So, after about a year and a half, Prabhupada wanted to come back to India because he felt that the Indians were just trying to imitate the westerners. So, if he brought some American and European disciples and they saw that they are taken to the original native culture, then they’ll imitate that. And it really was like that. I mean, when we came, it was very rare even for anyone from Europe or America just to visit India, it was very expensive. It was just so far away, so a lot of people have never even seen someone with fair skin. And then, to see us dressed in their traditional robes, and not even just regular traditional clothes, but sort of spiritual traditional robes, and people were literally weeping of joy just seeing us chanting on the streets.

And then, well, other than you, they have Radhanath Swami. So, in India, they have pandals. Pandals are an open-air tent, but huge, they can accommodate twenty thousand people. And so, Prabhupada thought we could do that. And so, we organized in downtown Bombay, the most prime location, just right between the main business district and the train station. So, people would just follow it during the rush hour and thousands of people passed by. It was a real event!

At that time, Radhanath Swami, whom you we’ll meet tomorrow, he had already come to India on his spiritual quest and he had lived in the Himalayas and he had come down to Bombay to deal with his visa, so he saw these big banners. I mean, everyone knew about this program, there were banners, billboards saying, “Hare Krishna Festival, Cross-maidan,” with the dates. But at the end, people knew it so much that at the end, we got a huge billboard near the other big train station. And it just said, ‘Hare Krishna.’ It didn’t even have to say festival or the location and the dates.

So, he came in to the tent and he was sort of dressed in simple white robe and I was sort of the manager of the site. And so, we had a book table. And this is a major part of our lineage. It places a lot of emphasis on literature. And so, Srila Prabhupada told him, “Do you ever get money from books? It’s a very major part of the extension of compassion and mercy to distribute literature that will enlighten people of who they are and what their life is meant for.”

So, when I was in Boston, we used to go on the streets. And I would approach people with magazines for a small donation. So here, I started to do the same thing, but it was different in India. People started to walk off with the magazines without paying. So, I consulted some of our advisors, “Oh no! You can’t do that here.” “Okay, what do we do?” “You have to drill a little hole in the corner of the magazine and put a string through it and tie it to the leg of the table. Because it has to go in their hand to have a chance to see it.” So, okay, that’s the way they do it, and we’ll do it that way.

So, this young man who later became Radhanath Swami, he was spending most of the day in the pandal. So, I asked him if he would like to do some service, and he said yes. So, I showed him how to make a hole and tie the magazines to the legs of the table. So, he gives me the credit for being the first one to engage him in service.

And then there were other who were the first to get prasāda. Do you know the word prasāda? It’s food that’s offered to God. Vegetarian food is offered with love and devotion to God and what’s left is called prasāda, which literally means mercy.

So now, coming back to meditation, like I mentioned, I was trying different types of meditation before I met Prabhupada, and he described, you could say, the effectiveness of chanting. It is meditation but as opposed to other types of meditation in which the object of the meditation does not have any particular intrinsic value, the values that one’s focusing on, but here, the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, these divine names, sacred syllables have an intrinsic value. And so, meditating on those names or syllables has an effect that goes beyond steading the mind and making it peaceful, but it actually brings one in touch with Krishna, the Supreme.

And in general, bhakti-yoga, coming back to my original question and Prabhupada’s question, “Do you want to become God, or do you want to serve God?” It’s based on the conception of God being the Supreme Person.

Now, of course, there are many statements in the Vedic literatures that refer to an impersonal feature, the spiritual light. And that feature does exist, the Vedic literatures don’t deny it. But from the Bhagavad-gītā through others, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is sort of revealed that there is the form of Godhead, (I mean, that’s another topic), but the original is Krishna, but there are others like Rama and then Vishnu, there are devatas, demigods, Ganesh, Kartikeya, who are not in the same category. But they are powerful agents of God, like a king has his ministers. Then there is Shiva, who is sort of in between.

So, coming back to the mantra. These are names of God. But in a way, God has no name but He has form, He has qualities, He has everything that we have, plus more. And so, our idea is to develop our relationship with Him, and that relationship is developed by service, and chanting is included as a type of service. There are nine categories; śravaṇam—hearing. What you are doing now, you are hearing about Krishna. And in kirtan, you will be part of chanting śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ—remembering.

And Srila Prabhupada used the term practical samadhi, that you can be busy the whole day in service to Krishna. It’s not that you have your life and then you set aside a certain amount of time for your meditation. And it’s even more than having a certain lifestyle that supports your meditation, but it’s actually being engaged from morning to night in some service to Krishna. And that was really a very big thing for me to be able to connect my daily life with bhakti-yoga, with Krishna consciousness.

So, it’s really an adventure, and I welcome you all. I think I’ll mention a little, although nobody asked it, but I think I will mention a little about ayurveda because I have a sense that you need it.

So, I think this is also a divine arrangement. But I was looking for a good doctor, and somehow, I got introduced to a really good ayurvedic practitioner. This is another thing. Another very important concept in any Indian discipline, Vedic discipline, is paramparā, which means lineage, who is your teacher, who is your teacher’s teacher. So, this ayurvedic practitioner comes in a line that is traced all the way back to the time of Krishna. That family line is actually mentioned in one of the subsidiary Puranas.

So, we’ve had many long talks. I’ve never really studied formally, but I’ve learned a lot from him. Basically, what he told me is that in ayurveda, the aim is not to treat the body, but it’s to treat the person. And the person includes body, mind, and soul, ātmā. Many elements of the yogic lifestyle are supported by the ayurveda or derived from ayurveda. For example, getting up early in the morning, that’s highly recommended in ayurveda. And in fact, my advisor told me that sleeping through sunrises is considered very inauspicious. So, there are many things like that, even, of course, being vegetarian. We don’t take onion and garlic. In no temple will you get prasāda having onion and garlic. It has sort of lower vibrations.

And I met him at the stage when he was relatively new, and he asked me if I could provide some of the work to his office. “There must be so many people just die to get to work in your office.” He said, “Yeah, but they eat onions and garlic and I can’t have that vibration in my office, and I can’t tell them now, so many years later they’ve fully embraced the lifestyle.” And he was saying that western medicine, they’ve come a long way in understanding nutrition. But there is a certain level that they don’t have access to.

So, we’ll come to the pulse. This is more for practitioners. I mean, you can follow principles of ayurveda in your life, but to actually act as a practitioner, you need to take the pulse. So, I’ll just say a few things about how deep that goes.

So, one day, I wanted to fit in a walk before seeing him. He is also in southern California. And so, I did, I fit in the walk, and then there was a little traffic. And between the exertion of the walk and the anxiety of getting to the appointment on time, I was a little say worked up by the time I got to his office. So, I said, “I’m in this condition, it might throw off the reading of my pulse.” And he said, “There are twelve levels of reading of the pulse. It is like the tissues, the organs, it just goes deeper and deeper, even into several aspects of your being like your consciousness. And he said, “Only the most superficial levels will be affected by temporary exertion,” but he doesn’t even really consider that it goes for the deeper levels. And then, he explained the different levels, and then he came right to sort of the level of consciousness.

And it’s a very fascinating discussion, I can’t get into it now, but eventually, I don’t know if you heard the term sattvic. So, there are these three gunas; tama-guṇa, raja-guṇa, and sattva-guṇa. And he was explaining that through the pulse, you can tell what guna the person’s in by nature. And then he was saying even in sattva-guṇa, there are varieties of mentality, like there is the Indra pulse. Indra is a devata who enjoys heavenly pleasures.

So, there is the Indra pulse, and that is someone who is in the sattva-guṇa, but with the desire to enjoy opulence, not to enjoy pleasures. Then there is the Kuvera pulses, also in the sattva-guṇa, with the desire to enjoy wealth. And then, there is the Rishi pulse. The word rishi is like a sage. And someone with the Rishi pulse, he is interested in self-realization. Whatever happens on the various levels of his body or mind, he will never be deviated from this quest for self-realization. And then there is the Vishnu pulse, which is beyond this world.

So, at one stage, I felt a number of symptoms of old age coming out. And it was just sort of in the back of my mind, “Do I really want to have to go through all this? It’s just going to get worse as time goes on.” It was sort of there in the back of my mind. So, he came and took my pulse, and then he said, “Even though there are difficulties in old age, you have a mission in life and we’ll take care of you as best as we can. But whatever the inconveniences are, you have to fulfil your mission. And you shouldn’t think of leaving before your mission is complete.” So, I said, “Wow! What made you say that? That was just what I needed to hear!” He said, “I got it from your pulse.”

And there was another person I knew, a devotee, well, sort of a devotee, who had a very traumatic childhood, and she eventually became sort of, at least for a while, sort of mentally unbalanced. And he said, “I know about all that,” and she really didn’t want to describe, sort of, what the trauma was and what she could do. And I mean, ordinarily, this would be a breach of confidentiality, but she gave permission for him to discuss her with me. And he described it sort of like a split personality. And this was fascinating to hear the ayurvedic understanding of what we would call mental imbalance. And I said, “Wow, that really describes her. Did she tell you about her childhood?” He said, “No.” And I didn’t think she would. You don’t go to an ayurvedic doctor to speak about your childhood. I said, “Where did you get all that?” He said, “From the pulse.”

And he said that to really practice ayurveda, you can’t be an ordinary person. You have to have sadhana. You know the word sadhana? You have to have sadhana to lead a very pure life, and then your consciousness is elevated so that you could practically deal with the pulse in every aspect of the person. And of course, again, this is a whole fascinating field. But the last thing I will share with you right now is that there are levels of ayurvedic practitioners, and this is from scriptures and shastras.

So, one level, he doesn’t really know what he is doing, the practitioner. So, you should avoid that category. Then, the next level, he knows what he is doing, but he can’t explain it. So, that category is all right if you can’t find someone in the first category. And the first category is someone who knows what he is doing and he can explain it, so you understand what he is doing and what he wants you to do, and then you are motivated to follow it. And then, there is a Sanskrit term for each. And the Sanskrit term for the highest level one, is translated as someone who can intercede on your behalf with God. In other words, he can pray for you.

And he also said, his father. . . I mean, yes, he did get all the training in the school and everything, but he feels he really learned the most from his father. So, anyway, it looks like nothing else will work. His father, and I’m sure it’s mostly supported by shastra, would tell the patient to chant the name of God. And his father would do that. And sometimes, there would be miracles. The person could get better. And if not, it was still beneficial for the person’s mind and soul. So, it’s very integrated, the whole culture.

And it’s interesting that once, I went to visit him with a colleague of mine who was into astrology. And so, he asked my colleague, “How many years have you been studying? How long has it taken you to master the subject?” And later, my friends said it was a trick question because you never master the subject, you always are learning. But it’s like all these different sciences, sort of, interface with each other. So, from a person’s astrology, you can find out about their modern constitution, their mental makeup, their spiritual position. And then, you can predict health challenge. It’s always related, it’s quite amazing. But ultimately, it’s all meant to support the essential spiritual practices of bhakti-yoga. So, they are supportive, but peripheral, but close peripheral. It’s really fascinating.

Actually, when he was small, his father took him and he was quite influenced by Srila Prabhupada. Because Srila Prabhupada’s dictation of the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, without compromise. So, he was like that. And also, Prabhupada made a point that he is not manufacturing any theory of his own, he is just repeating what’s in Bhagavad-gītā. So, Vaidya Misra, he is the same, he supports what he says with sacred Texts and he doesn’t compromise.

Sometimes people, if they see you really wanting to do something, even if they don’t agree with it, they sort of go along with it because they think that you really want to do it. So, they were having the twenty-fifth anniversary of the opening of the temple, and I really wanted to come there. And Śrīdhara Swami was inviting me and Mr. Sethi phoned me and asked me to tell him I really wanted to come.

And so, I asked him if I could come and he said no. I was just starting with him. He said, “No, you are not ready. Give me a year with you and I’ll bring you to the stage where you can travel. But you are not ready now.” So, I said, “Well, what would happen if I did go?” And he said, “It will seriously set you back.” He didn’t compromise. And then later, I actually felt relieved, I think inside, I knew that I really wasn’t up to it but just my mind got fixed on the idea. And it turns out that one of his ancestors was a court astrologer. I don’t remember the name of king, maybe they have Navaratnam. 

Devotee: Navaratan, like Akbar.

Giriraj Swami: Was it Akbar? Anyway, so one of his forefathers, he was the royal astrologer, and he predicted that the king’s son would be killed by a boar, and the king did not like that prediction. The boy was five years old. And he consulted a lot of other astrologers. “No, it’s not true.” So, he had this court astrologer arrested and put in jail. And then, the appointed day came, so they kept the boy inside the palace. And he was surrounded by guards, and the day passed. It was almost time for the boy to go to sleep for the night. And the boy, when he was on the stairs, the royal insignia, which was engraved on a golden brass flag, somehow got dislodged, fell down on the boy’s head and killed him. And there was a war that the main emblem on that insignia was a boar. So, he realized that the astrologer was right and he released him from jail and apologized. And because of that, the astrologer got the name Varahamaya. Varaha means boar.

So, he didn’t compromise, that’s the point I made, he didn’t compromise what he knew was the truth. And Prabhupada didn’t compromise either. And of course, there are different levels of truth. It has an intrinsic, and even if it’s not popular at the time, it still will prevail. It’s like part of the national slogan. Satyameva jayate. It is actually a line from Upanishads. The truth will prevail. It’s the Indian national anthem.

Student: [Unintelligible 01:01:56].

Giriraj Swami: All right. You all must be hungry? And well, I don’t know, I’m just guessing, but I was told that. Are you planning to go to the restaurant?

Student: [Unintelligible 01:02:25].

Giriraj Swami: All right. Should we phone them and tell them?

Student: It was really nice. Thank you for sharing that. Yes, thank you, thank you very much.

Giriraj Swami: Well, you are welcome. You are a lovely group. It was really a pleasure to speak with you. I will be coming to Chowpatty tomorrow, but I’m not sure to meet you.

Student: They will be there, they’ll meet you tomorrow.

Giriraj Swami: They are going to be at agro village. Good, I won’t be in too much separation anxiety. All right, well, I look forward to tomorrow.

Student: And it’s really nice, thank you for bringing us up here to Prabhupada’s space. This is a sacred shrine in this lineage. And you can feel the vibration here. And to share this with you, having been a part of that since that time, and he didn’t mention that he had a lot to do with this whole place coming together. So, there is no coincidence that we are here appreciating your presence and your sweet story.

But bhakti is ayurveda, ayurveda is bhakti. That was a beautiful story, that you can’t just learn ayurveda intellectually, it’s a love that you have for humanity, this lineage is exemplary of that. This is the ideal of service. The same devotion to God in each of us. We feel that. It’s amazing we were looking at from showing you the books the number of books that Prabhupada produced in such a short period of time, it’s remarkable just to explain the ideal of service and love for humanity. That’s how profound it is.

Could you share with them since they are all interested in a relationship that Krishna shares to the tulasi plant and its reverencing?

Giriraj Swami: Well, the tulasi plant, I mean, I would prefer to begin by answering more just in the context of bhakti. The tulasi plant is very dear to Krishna. I mean, that’s a big topic of how God, in His ultimate features, is a person like us. But not limited like us. But it’s a little difficult, because our experience with personality in the material world is all limited. All the persons we know, their ātmā is covered by their physical bodies. They have no experience of a person who’s all ātmā and no physical body. And also limited like we are here in Juhu now, so we cannot be in Chowpatty at the same time or Pune at the same time or in Los Angeles at the same time.

But God is a person, He obviously has to have all of the qualities we have, plus more. So, He has the faculty of thinking, of desiring, of speaking, He has all of those faculties. So, He also has, just like anyone, likes and dislikes. He also does. But not based on material duality, like I mentioned likes and dislikes. So, in material duality, we might have friends and enemies, God has no friends and enemies. But what He likes is devotion: bhakti, love. And so, the tulasi plant is actually a manifestation of a devotee of Krishna in the spiritual world named Vrinda. And Vrinda in the material world, is manifested as a tulasi plant. And it is said that no offering of food to Krishna or Vishnu is complete without the tulasi leaf. And so, any Vaishnava temple, you will find that.

Now, Tulsi is considered to have medicinal properties, which she does have, but according to shastra, tulasi is meant exclusively for Vishnu. We cannot offer tulasi directly even to Radha, only for Krishna. But we can take tulasi as prasāda. So, even my vaidya, he uses tulasi. But I told him, “Unless it’s offered to Vishnu first, unless it’s prasāda, I won’t take that medicine.” Sometimes he would make a whole garland of tulasi leaves and offer it to the Deity. So, he would get these garlands that had been offered to Deities and use those. He doesn’t actually use the leaves, but he soaks it. But yeah, she has amazing medicinal properties. But we won’t take tulasi unless she has been offered to Vishnu first.

Student: Thank you so much.

Giriraj Swami: Yeah.

Student: Prabhupada would speak of the parts, the different states of devotion, the moods of bhakti, and how those change in the course of the spiritual tradition. As you are evolving, your spiritual path, the mood of devotion either through service, as timeline or as a motherly side, the caring side.

Giriraj Swami: The basic Text that describes these different moods or bhāvas is called Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which was compiled by Rupa Gosvami about five hundred years ago. Of course, everything is derived mainly from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. And Prabhupada translated it not verse by verse, but as a summary study.

And so, there are five primary relationships that you can have with the Lord. One is called śānta-rasa, you could say peaceful admiration. For example, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, the material world is an inverted reflection of the spiritual world. Whatever we have here exists originally in the spiritual world, but here it’s all temporary subject to decay, and in the spiritual world, it’s all eternal and blissful.

So, we have these different relationships here, and they come originally from God in the spiritual world. And in fact, our desire for relationship can only be perfectly fulfilled with God because everything here is going to end sooner or later. If not on the reason of the body, then there are other reasons, good or bad, relationships have difficulties before then.

So, in the spiritual world, everything we have here is a reflection. So, an example of śānta-rasa would be the trees. The trees give shade, they give fruits, they give flowers. But it’s not after, in the sense they are sort of stationary. But being stationary, they give service. And dāsya is a servant. And you mentioned Hanuman. Hanuman is the epitome of the mood of dāsya or servanthood in relation to Rama.

And then, there is sākhya, which means friends. And this is very hard to understand because there are reverential friends, but then there are friends who are like equals. And to be a friend, an equal, you have to forget that Krishna is God.

And so, you’ve probably heard the term, maya? Maya means illusion. So, there are actually two kinds of maya. One is this regular maya, or mahā-māyā. Mahā-māyā makes us forget God and keeps us away from Him. But there is another energy called yoga-māyā that partially reveals God and partially conceals Him. So, yoga-māyā reveals God, His beauty, His wonderful qualities, but it conceals His Godhood. Because to be a friend, an equal of Krishna, if you are conscious that He is God, you can’t have that relationship. So, yoga-māyā comes in and this is like the specialty of Krishna. Even with Rama, or Vishnu, or Narayana, you don’t find this. It’s not that one is better than the other, it’s just a type of intimate relationship that is not there outside Krishna in Vrindavan.

And then there is vātsalya-rasa, that’s the mood of being a parent. And there is one sort of line that is very much in that mood that Krishna likes. And then there is mādhurya-rasa, which is relationship of the gopīs. Now these, especially these higher rasas, are approached with a lot of caution because these states are really only possible when you are liberated. And being conditioned, still being materially bound, we can mistake these as the material, or as just being imaginary.

So, I mean, you asked very elevated questions. Answers are deep. We generally do approach these topics with care because, like I said, until one gets the sense of the personality of Godhead, which is already difficult, like I said, take it either it’s just mythology, just stories, or as material.

But come to think of it, if you look at the pictures on the wall, you’ll see them, you’ll see all the different relationships. It’s a little far. So, that’s Krishna, and then His mother is holding Him. In the morning, He gets up and she dresses Him. And then one of the servants, He is down on the floor, they are helping Him. So, there are those two, and more over here. There is Krishna with His cowherd boyfriends. They go out in the forest during the day and take care of the transcendental cows. And then you see Radha-Gopinatha, Radha-Krishna, that’s mādhurya-rasa.

So, whatever relationship you want, because that soul, that ātmā is spiritual, the body changes, but ātmā remains, so that desire is there because we are originally with Krishna. And we can never be satisfied until we re-establish our relationship. And we look for it in the material world. We don’t find it. We can have nice relationships with each other, supporting each other in our spiritual quest towards Krishna, but that real hankering for that pure love is only fulfilled with Krishna. Hare Krishna.