CC Antya 8.34–35 – Srila Madhavendra Puri’s Instructive Departure

Giriraj Swami: Hare Krishna. Today is the auspicious disappearance day of Srila Madhavendra Puri, who is a very important spiritual master in our line. He was the spiritual master of Sri Isvara Puri, who was so blessed by Srila Madhavendra Puri, especially at the time of his passing away, that Isvara Puri was accepted as the spiritual master of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself.

So, there is a long Chapter in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta dedicated to the devotional service of Srila Madhavendra Puri, but the more detailed description of Srila Madhavendra Puri’s last pastimes comes in the Antya-līlā of Caitanya-caritāmṛta in a Chapter called, “Rāmacandra Purī Criticizes the Lord.” And how Srila Madhavendra Puri’s last pastimes fit in the context of Ramachandra Puri’s criticizing the Lord will be revealed in the course of the class. Reading from Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Antya-līlā, Chapter Eight.

TEXT 1

taṁ vande kṛṣṇa-caitanyaṁ
rāmacandra-purī-bhayāt
laukikāhārataḥ svaṁ yo
bhikṣānnaṁ samakocayat

TRANSLATION

Let me offer my respectful obeisances to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who reduced His eating due to fear of the criticism of Rāmacandra Purī.

TEXT 17

The characteristic of Rāmacandra Purī was that first he would induce someone to eat more than necessary and then he would criticize him.

COMMENT

Now, this is not a very congenial habit that Ramachandra Puri had. Yet, Ramachandra Puri was a disciple of Srila Madhavendra Puri, and therefore, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu respected him on the same level as His spiritual master, because he was a godbrother of His own spiritual master, Isvara Puri. So, how could someone coming in such an exalted lineage become so fallen that he would criticize all the devotees of Lord Chaitanya for overeating?

And he ultimately criticized Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Himself, and therefore, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu reduced His eating, He cut His eating in half, which caused great distress to the other devotees, and they advised Him, “Why do You pay attention to Ramachandra Puri? He is just a fault finder.” Chaitanya Mahaprabhu replied, “No, he is My well-wisher. He is the godbrother of My spiritual master, and he is My well-wisher. I must take heed of what he is saying.”

But as soon as Ramachandra Puri left town, Jagannatha Puri, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and the other devotees felt relieved of a great burden, and then, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu began eating His normal portions. And, of course, when He reduced His eating, all the other devotees reduced theirs, because how could they be indulging when Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was restricting Himself? But when Ramachandra Puri left town, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu began to eat as before, to His God’s content, and all of His devotees did as well.

So, how could Ramachandra Puri, coming in such an evolving lineage, become such a problem? So, that is explained in relation to Srila Madhavendra Puri’s last days.

TEXT 18

Formerly, when Mādhavendra Purī was at the last stage of his life, Rāmacandra Purī came to where he was staying.

TEXT 19

Mādhavendra Purī was chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, and sometimes he would cry, “O my Lord, I did not get shelter at Mathurā.”

TEXT 20

Then Rāmacandra Purī was so foolish that he fearlessly dared to instruct his spiritual master.

COMMENT

Which is a great offense.

TEXT 21

“tumi — pūrṇa-brahmānanda, karaha smaraṇa
brahmavit hañā kene karaha rodana?”

COMMENT

Ramachandra Puri said

TRANSLATION

“If you are in full transcendental bliss,” he said, “you should now remember only Brahman. Why are you crying?”

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

As stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: a Brahman realized person is always happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: he neither laments nor aspires for anything. Not knowing why Mādhavendra Purī was crying, Rāmacandra Purī tried to become his advisor. Thus he committed a great offense, for a disciple should never try to instruct his spiritual master.

COMMENT

So, what Ramachandra Puri witnessed was his spiritual master crying in ecstatic feelings of separation for Krishna. He was actually in the mood of Srimati Radharani when She was in separation from Krishna. But Ramachandra Puri could not appreciate the transcendental feelings of separation expressed by his spiritual master, and he mistook them for ordinary material lamentation. So, he foolishly advised Him to be fixed in Brahman, which is the effulgence of the transcendental form of Krishna. In other words, Madhavendra Puri was way beyond that.

TEXT 22

śuni’ mādhavendra-mane krodha upajila
‘dūra, dūra, pāpiṣṭha’ bali’ bhartsanā karila

TRANSLATION

Hearing this instruction, Mādhavendra Purī, greatly angry, rebuked him by saying, “Get out, you sinful rascal!

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

Rāmacandra Purī could not understand that his spiritual master, Mādhavendra Purī, was feeling transcendental separation. Rāmacandra Purī was not sufficiently expert to understand the feelings of Mādhavendra Purī, but nevertheless he thought himself very advanced. Therefore, regarding Mādhavendra Purī’s expressions as ordinary material lamentation, he advised him to remember Brahman because he was latently an impersonalist. Mādhavendra Purī understood Rāmacandra Purī’s position as a great fool and therefore immediately rebuked him. Such a reprimand from the spiritual master is certainly for the betterment of the disciple.

COMMENT

Now, it’s mentioned in the verse, krodha upajila, that hearing these words from Ramachandra Puri, anger arose within the heart of Srila Madhavendra Puri. Now, anger is another thing that impersonalists do not appreciate, they don’t understand transcendental anger. And there was an incident that took place in New Delhi on the first pandal, which was very instructive, but due to time limitations, we won’t describe the whole event.

But basically, a, sort of, rough looking Westerner, I don’t know, from Australia? I’m not sure. But he was wearing a chain around his neck and black leather. So, when Srila Prabhupada was giving his lecture, this young man approached the stage and immediately, the devotees went to keep him away, and Srila Prabhupada said, “No, let him come.” So, he climbed down the stage, then Prabhupada said, “Give him āsana.” So, the devotees gave him a cushion, and then Prabhupada said, “Give him a microphone.”

So, the young man immediately challenged Srila Prabhupada. He asked him, “How old is the Bhagavad-gītā?” And Srila Prabhupada answered, “5,000 years old.” And then, the young man said, “No, according to my information, it’s such and such.”

Anyway, there was some back and forth, and eventually, he asked Prabhupada another challenging question, and Srila Prabhupada replied, “No, first, you answer my question. What is the process for understanding the Bhagavad-gītā?” And the man said, “No, I asked you first, you answer my question.” Prabhupada said, “I’m not your servant, you answer my question.” So then, the man started to lose his temper and shout, and then Prabhupada motioned, “Remove him.” So, they came and placed him back in the audience.

Now, what happened was that the audience became polarized. And I was in the audience, I was actually distributing books. And a lot of people in the audience actually sympathized with the young man, and because they had this idea that the spiritual master or a saintly person shouldn’t get angry, they started to, sort of, mob us. They were saying, “Your Guru Maharaja shouldn’t get angry, he lost his temper.” And it was really, very uncomfortable for us.

So, I and a couple of other distributors made our way towards the stage. And meanwhile, the other part of the audience was sitting very attentively, listening to Srila Prabhupada, who explained the process for learning the Bhagavad-gītā, which is submissive aural reception, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. And by allowing the young man to exhibit his challenging spirit, Srila Prabhupada staged a demonstration of how not to approach a spiritual master, what is not the process of learning the Bhagavad-gītā.

Now, at the time, there were some politicians who had come forward to help with the pandal, and there were 20,000 people every night, and they were thinking if they are identified with Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON, all the pious people will support them in the election. One of his disciples even told Srila Prabhupada, “These politicians are just trying to use us to advance their own political careers.” And Srila Prabhupada said, “We don’t mind. If someone benefits materially from our association and we don’t lose, we don’t mind.”

Now, after this altercation with the young man, some of the politicians became agitated because they thought, I’m being associated with Srila Prabhupada, which we thought was going to advance our political careers, but it may backfire on me. So, one of the politicians lost his temper, sort of. He started shouting at Malati devi dasi saying, “Your Guru Maharaja has ruined everything.” And Malati replied, “My Guru Maharaja has not ruined anything.” And she slapped him. [laughter] And I was really impressed, I thought, This is transcendental anger, this is a real disciple. [laughter]

So, ordinary people on the material platform think anger is a no-no. You can’t be angry, or lamentations, no-no. They don’t know that these things have an original reality on the spiritual platform and they are exhibited by pure devotees. And to mistake those manifestations of transcendental love as material lamentation, material anger, creations of the modes of passion and ignorance, is very offensive. And unfortunately, Ramachandra Puri made that mistake with his spiritual master.

TEXT 23

“O my Lord Kṛṣṇa, I could not reach You, nor could I reach Your abode, Mathurā. I am dying in my unhappiness, and now this rascal has come to give me more pain.

COMMENT

Then, Madhavendra Puri addressed Ramachandra Puri.

TEXT 24

more mukha nā dekhābi tui, yāo yathi-tathi
tore dekhi’ maile mora habe asad-gati

TRANSLATION

“Don’t show your face to me! Go anywhere else you like. If I die seeing your face, I shall not achieve the destination of my life.

COMMENT

Now, this is very heavy, but Srila Prabhupada wrote earlier that the chastisement of the spiritual master is certainly for the betterment of the disciples. And as I’ve read Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, many of us, I’m sure, had the same experience. I see more and more how Srila Prabhupada exhibited the same sorts of transcendental qualities as even Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His associates.

Although Srila Prabhupada never rejected the disciple because he is so merciful, once, there was a disciple. This was in Juhu, actually. I won’t go into the details, but he was behaving in a very strange way. So, we’ll go back a little.

One of Prabhupada’s early disciples from America had come to India and was in Calcutta. And the temple president phoned Srila Prabhupada in Bombay, (which is very rare, to phone Srila Prabhupada), and informed Srila Prabhupada that the disciple was smoking ganja, I guess, hashish. And he didn’t know what to do because he was a very senior devotee. And Srila Prabhupada replied, “Tell him that if he doesn’t stop smoking ganja, I will reject him.”

Then, after the phone call, Tamal Krishna Goswami asked Srila Prabhupada, “Is it true that you would reject him?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “No, I cannot reject anyone.” And Tamal Krishna Goswami asked, “But don’t you have to draw the line somewhere?” And Srila Prabhupada replied, “The mercy of Lord Nityananda has no lineage.” Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

So, Srila Madhavendra Puri has, at least externally, rejected Ramachandra Puri. Now, listen to what happened next.

TEXT 26

Rāmacandra Purī was thus denounced by Mādhavendra Purī. Due to his offense, gradually material desire appeared within him.

COMMENT

Now, this is a very important point for all of us. Of course, we are discussing Srila Madhavendra Puri, who is a mahā-bhāgavata, a devotee on the highest platform, and Ramachandra Puri, who was so audacious that he dared to instruct him. But we may also, in some ways, be guilty of the same type of mentality, in a more subtle way. And so, we may commit offenses, we may have doubts, and we might articulate them or we might be afraid to articulate them, but we might keep them in our mind, doubts, even about Srila Prabhupada. But the result of offenses is that material desires gradually develop.

And so, we should be careful, and not only with great, exalted personalities like Srila Madhavendra Puri or Srila Prabhupada, but even with other devotees, who may not strike us as being on the same level. We should be careful not to commit offenses against them, against any devotee, any vrajavāsīs, any animal in the dhāma. They are all special souls, and we can get reactions.

So, I’m going to continue reading, but keep in mind that the instructions here can be relevant to us also.

TEXT 26

Rāmacandra Purī was thus denounced by Mādhavendra Purī. Due to his offense, gradually material desire appeared within him.

PURPORT by Srila Prabhupada

The word vāsanā (“material desires”) refers to dry speculative knowledge.

COMMENT

In other words, the desire for impersonal liberation is also a material desire.

PURPORT (continued)

Speculative knowledge is only material. As confirmed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.14.4), a person without devotional service who simply wants to know things (kevala-bodha-labdhaye) gains only dry speculative knowledge but no spiritual benefit.

COMMENT

So then, Srila Prabhupada quotes a series of verses to the effect that even one who’s liberated can fall down if he offends the Supreme Lord or the Lord’s devotee. Then Prabhupada concludes

PURPORT (continued)

These are references from authoritative revealed scriptures. If one becomes an offender to his spiritual master or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he falls down to the material platform to merely speculate.

TEXT 27

One who is attached to dry speculative knowledge has no relationship with Kṛṣṇa. His occupation is criticizing Vaiṣṇavas. Thus he is situated in criticism.

COMMENT

Now, this topic of criticizing devotees may have relevance to us. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura wrote a series of essays called Bhaktya-loka, in which he discusses two verses from the Upadeśāmṛta. The six factors or activities favorable for devotional service, and the six that are unfavorable. And within his discussion, he quotes other verses from the Upadeśāmṛta.

But one of the six items that spoils devotional service is prajalpaḥ. Prajalpaḥ means, you could say, unnecessary talks. And Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura analyzes different categories of prajalpaḥ, or unnecessary talks. Dry arguments is one of them.

But the one which is very critical is talking about others. That type of prajalpaḥ. And basically, he said that we should not talk about others. And there is one place where he says, “But if you are in a situation where you have to talk about others, then better remain silent.” In other words, no compromise. But then, at the end, he does make an exception, but there are conditions to the exception. The exception is that in order to make a point clear, one may have to use a negative example, and without using the negative example, the point may not be clear.

Actually, we are seeing it here, in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami is using a negative example to make an important point. So, we might think, Well, here is the loophole. And he says, “Even in a spiritual organization, one may have to point out the defects of a particular member of the organization.” So, one might think, Okay, it’s not as bad as I thought. There is scope. But Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has laid down certain conditions. And the conditions are that one’s heart should be free from devotional impediments, such as envy and pride.

So, before we think that we can criticize the devotee, we should look within our hearts and see, “Am I free from envy? Am I free from pride?” And he also mentions anger. “Am I free from anger? If I’m not, then I should not criticize.” It’s a little intricate, but there may be a need to correct someone, but if you are not sure about your purity of heart, you should not rush to be the one to do it.

You can approach a confidential friend whose heart is clean and say, “I’m seeing this in this person. What I’m seeing, is it really there or is it just a projection of my own envy?” Or you may approach someone with, “This is what I perceive, I don’t know if it’s accurate or not. Please tell me. You look at it and if you think something needs to be done, then you do it, because you are the person’s authority, you are the right person to deal with that.”

So, in general, we should be very careful on this point, especially with devotees in dhāma. And therefore, it’s so important to have confidential friends with whom we can reveal our minds with confidence. Guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And that atmosphere of having confidential friends of whom we can inquire in a situation like this, for example, where we perceive above, we are not sure if it’s really in the other person or it’s just us.

So, we can only do that in a culture where there is no talking about others. Otherwise, you’ll be afraid to open up to someone for fear that the person will, “Oh boy, I got to have one now” straight away on the Internet, Facebook, whatever the news is. Then people won’t open up, they won’t inquire confidentially out of fear, and then what will they do? They’ll be keeping all these things inside without any resolution.

It’s very important that we have a culture where there is no prajalpaḥ, where we can have confidential exchanges and check ourselves and see whether we are being influenced by things like envy, pride, anger, hatred, or not. But here, fortunately, Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami and Srila Madhavendra Puri are completely pure devotees, and they are using this negative example only for our benefit. So now, we come to another example.

TEXT 28

Īśvara Purī, the spiritual master of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, performed service to Mādhavendra Purī, cleaning up his stool and urine with his own hand.

COMMENT

He was caring for his spiritual master in his last days.

TEXT 29

Īśvara Purī was always chanting the holy name and pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa for Mādhavendra Purī to hear. In this way he helped Mādhavendra Purī remember the holy name and pastimes of Lord Kṛṣṇa at the time of death.

COMMENT

So, Isvara Puri was a perfect example of how a disciple serves his spiritual master at the end, and he also sets an example for all of us who may be in the position of trying to help someone at the end of their lives. He took care of his spiritual master as a humble servant, cleaning up his stool and urine with his own hands, and at the same time, chanted the holy name and pastimes of Krishna to help him fix his mind on Krishna at the end. And what was the result?

TEXT 30

Pleased with Īśvara Purī, Mādhavendra Purī embraced him and gave him the benediction that he would be a great devotee and lover of Kṛṣṇa.

TEXT 31

Thus Īśvara Purī became like an ocean of ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa, whereas Rāmacandra Purī became a dry speculator and a critic of everyone else.

TEXT 32

Īśvara Purī received the blessing of Mādhavendra Purī, whereas Rāmacandra Purī received a rebuke from him. Therefore these two persons, Īśvara Purī and Rāmacandra Purī, are examples of the objects of a great personality’s benediction and punishment. Mādhavendra Purī instructed the entire world by presenting these two examples.

COMMENT

Now, we may commit offenses against devotees who are not on the platform of Srila Madhavendra Puri, but we still get a reaction. Similarly, we may render service to devotees who are not on the level of Madhavendra Puri, and we still get benedictions. And especially, any devotee who comes to the dhāma to leave his or her body in Krishna consciousness and the association of devotees is a special soul.

Now, I’ll give an example that illustrates the process, although it wasn’t in Vrindavan, and it wasn’t with a devotee. But my father had a stroke, and then, in the course of investigating whether they could give him blood thinners, they scanned his body for bleeding, and then they discovered that he had stomach cancer.

So, when he was, sort of, in his last days, he was in the hospital, and our family felt there should always be someone with him. And so, I was the one. So, he had his hospital bed, and there was a sofa in the room, so I laid down on the sofa near his bed. But he would have to get up very frequently to use the toilet, and he didn’t have the physical strength to walk to the toilet on his own. So, I was near him and I was in a state of constant alert, because if he needed to go to the bathroom, I had to be there to assist him.

So, I could not sleep. Any time I heard a sound, I thought it might be him, and often, it was him. And so, I’d get up and I’d help walk him to the toilet. But sometimes he didn’t reach in time, and then there was stool and urine on the floor, which I cleaned up. So, it was very difficult, not sleeping. Even if I dozed off for a few minutes, I’d hear something and wake up again. It was very physically exhausting and emotionally exhausting.

And then, around sunrise, just some of the first rays of the sun came into the room, and my father said to me, “What would you do if I gave you a million dollars?” Now, it just so happened that His Holiness Radhanath Swami was in Chicago, actually, visiting his father, when my father passed away. And afterwards, I related this story to him, and he said, “It was just like Isvara Puri taking care of Madhavendra Puri, that he gave himself fully to that service, cleaning up the stool and urine, and Madhavendra Puri gave him the greatest treasure of love for Krishna. So, your father didn’t have that treasure, he just had his monetary treasure, but still, he wanted to give you that.”

So, the point I’m making is that doing selfless service to a person, well, at any stage, but especially at the end of life, can bring benedictions and can bring blessings from that soul whose departing. I don’t know if we are short of time or not, because time is eternal, [laughter] maybe it’s just a mental concoction, so, we are not short of time at all, but still, I’ll try to be brief. And now we’ll come to the conclusion of this description.

TEXT 33

His Divine Grace Mādhavendra Purī, the spiritual master of the entire world, thus distributed ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa. While passing away from the material world, he chanted the following verse.

COMMENT

And this is the verse that’s written on the board, but again, for the sake of devotees who have other services coming up, we won’t recite it responsibly. But I’ll just read the verse and translation.

TEXT 34

ayi dīna-dayārdra nātha he
mathurā-nātha kadāvalokyase
hṛdayaṁ tvad-aloka-kātaraṁ
dayita bhrāmyati kiṁ karomy aham

TRANSLATION

“O My Lord! O most merciful master! O master of Mathurā! When shall I see You again? Because of My not seeing You, My agitated heart has become unsteady. O most beloved one, what shall I do now?”

TEXT 35

In this verse Mādhavendra Purī teaches how to achieve ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa. By feeling separation from Kṛṣṇa, one becomes spiritually situated.

COMMENT

So, this is a very important principle. Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami says here what Srila Prabhupada has said in numerous places, on numerous occasions, that to develop love for Krishna, one should develop feelings of separation from Krishna.

Once, at the Ardh Khumba-mela with Srila Prabhupada in 1971, and we were really new in India and there were all these sadhus and yogis. So, one man came to our camp, and he said he chanted the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, he followed the same regulative principles that we followed, he seemed to be a real, proper devotee. He said different things, and so we approached Srila Prabhupada and told him, but then, we told Srila Prabhupada that the man announced that he had seen Krishna. And when Srila Prabhupada heard that, he said, “He may be a pretender. In our mind, we always say, ‘I’ve seen Krishna.’”

And then he quoted the Six Gosvamis, their mood was always, “Where is Krishna?” He rādhe! vraja-devike! ca lalite! he nanda-suno! kutaḥ, “Where is Krishna? Are You on the banks of the Jamuna, are You at Govardhana Hill? Where are You?” Then they wandered all over Vrindavan shouting loudly and looking for Krishna, and that is our mood.

And that mood was exemplified on the highest level of Radharani’s separation from Krishna, like Srila Madhavendra Puri. But the principle is given to us to develop love for Krishna by feelings of separation.

TEXT 36

Mādhavendra Purī sowed the seed of ecstatic love for Kṛṣṇa within this material world and then departed. That seed later became a great tree in the form of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

COMMENT

So, yes, Madhavendra Puri is so important in our life, he introduced this mood of ecstatic separation from Krishna, the mood of brotherhood. And elsewhere, it’s described that only three people in this world can actually understand the deep purport of this verse: Madhavendra Puri, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and Srimati Radharani. No fourth person can really understand the depths of the purport of this verse.

But we are here in Vrindavan dhāma, and we are in the association of devotees, followers of Srila Prabhupada, who are the eternal followers of the Six Gosvamis and Srila Madhavendra Puri, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, so we should utilize every moment that we have here for the best purpose, and always chant and hear about Krishna, serve the devotees, on a positive side, and on the negative side, avoid prajalpaḥ, and especially, speaking about others. But speaking about others is restricted only if you are criticizing. If you want to glorify, you can speak as much as you want. [laughter] Krishna and His devotees, we can glorify as much as we want, and go back home, back to Godhead. Hare Krishna.

Devotees: Hare Krishna.

Giriraj Swami: Are there any questions or comments? Yes, Radhanandi Swami Maharaja?

Devotee: [Unintelligible 00:58:34] tell us that the spiritual master, one of his duties is chastising disciples. So, considering that duty, how does the spiritual master not feel he is qualified to do that? How does he perform that duty?

Giriraj Swami: Very good question, very good question. Now, just to amplify the terms of the question, Srila Prabhupada once commented that the one part of being a spiritual master that he didn’t like was having to correct his disciples, because they are all Vaishnavas and he didn’t like to have to correct them, but he did. And he would quote the Chanakya maxim, “One should chastise sons and disciples, that will make them good. And if we just flatter them, they’ll become spoiled.” So, you are right. It is our duty if we are in a position of authority and responsibility.

Actually, I brought up the same question two days ago with His Holiness Niranjana Swami, who has given seminars on Bhaktya-loka. And I raised the point that sometimes we need to correct disciples. And, of course, if they are willing to accept it, then it’s easy because there is no resistance. But if there is resistance in them, that can cause a reaction in us. And we have to see whether that will actually be beneficial for them or not.

So, what he said was, “With people who may not just accept on faith what you say, it may be worthwhile to discuss the different courses of action. For example, their present course of action and what the consequences are, and what another course of action could be and what those consequences could be. And let them come to their own conclusion.”

“Of course,” he said, “We hope they come to the right conclusion, but if they don’t, we may have to intervene again, and we shouldn’t wait too long before it gets too late.” But he said, “We should bring them to the point where they understand that the correction is for their benefit.”

Now, it may also be a valid alternative to ask someone else to do it for you. Once, many years ago, and this is not a comment on anyone, it’s just an example. There might be better ones, but it just came to mind. Tamal Krishna Goswami was visiting Bhaktivedanta Manor, and as his personal servant, he had a disciple of Sri GaurangSwami. And I was, sort of, surprised because I knew that Tamal Krishna Goswami had other disciples there that could have served him. So, I asked, “Well, why are you engaging the disciple, Sri Gaurang Swami?” And Tamal Krishna Goswami replied, “Because he feels I can train them in a certain way that he can’t.”

But, on our level, I mean, that idea of guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati, confide in some confidential godbrother, “I’m seeing this in my disciple, I feel I need to intervene, but I just want to see how you see it,” just to make sure that your perception is clear and your approach will be beneficial. So, I think as a rule, that’s a good approach. Let’s consult. It could be a disciple, it could be a godbrother, it could be anyone. It’s very important, if they need to hear something and it will benefit them, that we say it. But we say it in the right way, in the right consciousness.

But I can tell you on a personal level. You have a disciple in Dallas and he is often seen walking around with an iPod, with earphones in his ears. And quite often, he’ll come up to me and he’d be in a very exuberant mood and he’ll say, “I had this question, I just couldn’t get the answer, and I was listening to Guru Maharaja’s tape and I got the answer, just what I needed.”

So, that’s another way I’ve seen with some of the gurus. They are very gentle in their personal interactions, but then they can be very straightforward in giving a class. And if the disciple is sincere enough when hearing the class, he’ll understand, “Guru Maharaja is chastising me.” I felt like that when Prabhupada was speaking, I feel like that when I’m reading his books, I feel like my false ego was being given a very rough time. [laughter] But I know it’s good for me, so I come back for more. Hare Krishna. Yes, there are two?

Devotee: Thank you for your class, Maharaja. Why was Ramchandra Puri not a devotee of [Unintelligible 01:06:52] Krishna?

Giriraj Swami: Ramachandra Puri? Well, in bhakti, everything depends on the consciousness. We might have theoretical knowledge, but underneath, we may have tendencies towards impersonalism or sense gratification. So, yes, on a certain intellectual level, we may have some philosophical understanding, but within our heart, we may have tendencies towards self-gratification, impersonal speculation.

I mean, once, I was with His Holiness Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja. I was mentioning the five most important forms of devotional service, and one of them is mathurā-vāsa, residing in Mathura, and he looked straight at me and he said, “Kaṁsa also lived in Mathura.” [laughter] So, it’s not the external, but it’s the internal state of consciousness.

Devotee: Hare Krishna. Thank you for the session, Maharaja. You were speaking about the importance of giving up the prajalpaḥ culture, to increase the trust amongst one another. My question is that in my observation, a lot of us, next generation devotees, we are so under [Unintelligible 01:08:58] in Srila Prabhupada’s book Krishna consciousness, that our only recourse for our speech is prajalpaḥ, because we don’t have enough sufficient taste, let’s say ideal talks, sufficient understanding, to feel inspired to actually engage in service to one another. And sometimes I feel that we have a lot of services that also have to be required to do. So, although it is important to give up the culture for prajalpaḥ, how will that practically be affected unless we are educated in Krishna consciousness in a more substantial sort of way?

Giriraj Swami: Well, glorifying Krishna’s devotees is favorable, and criticizing devotees is unfavorable. So, if you are going to speak, then speak in a favorable way about Krishna and His devotees, speak about devotional service. If you think that you can’t see anything good in anyone, then maybe you need to look into your own heart, ask yourself, “Why don’t I see anything good in anyone?” But if you do see something good, and I’m sure you do, then you can talk about it.

I think three nights ago, a godbrother came, and I don’t know, I just mentioned someone who I met here after a while, and just saying what a special soul he was and glorifying the person, and I was saying there are so many special souls in this movement, and that, sort of, opened the floodgates in a positive way. And then, for the next half an hour, we were just talking about all the great souls in the movement, and how special they are, and how wonderful they are. And that godbrother commented, “What a relishable conversation we are having.” So, it’s just a matter of practice, of discipline.

It’s in the Bhagavad-gītā, austerity of speech. It may be an austerity, but once we get used to it, we like it. [laughter] Is that alright? If you think there is lack of education, it’s quite clear from your question and your way of phrasing your question that you are quite intelligent and articulate, so maybe this is an indication that you could take up this service and give that proper education to the devotees, so that they know what to speak about and what not to speak about. Hare Krishna. Okay, last question.

Devotee: You mentioned developing relations, and really, in one way, so actually, when we speak with each other, we also reveal our minds and we also discuss things around us. But that discussion about things around us can also turn into prajalpaḥ. So, how can we be careful of such a situation?  

Giriraj Swami: How can we what?

Devotee: Be careful of not getting into prajalpaḥ.

Giriraj Swami: There are two sides to prajalpaḥ. There is speaking, and there is hearing. Now, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and all of our acharyas and scriptures warn us about speaking about others, criticizing devotees. But it’s also an offense to hear criticism of devotees. And if someone is in the mood of speaking some sort of criticism to you, how you respond will affect how that person proceeds. If he says, “Boy, I really heard something about so-and-so.” And you say, “Really? What was it?” [laughter], that’s going to encourage him. And if he says, “Boy, I really saw so-and-so do something he shouldn’t have done,” and if your response is, “Do I need to hear this?” Then, he’ll think, Do I need to say this? And that may stop it right there.

So, it’s a matter of culture, developing that culture. It’s a matter of knowledge of the consequences of our actions, and it’s a matter of discipline and association. If you have a certain weakness and you know other people have a similar weakness, maybe don’t go there so much, but be with people who don’t have that weakness. And by associating with them, you’ll learn how to glorify and appreciate devotees. So, yeah, it’s a big community, and there are wonderful devotees here, you can find them if you so desire.

So, thank you very much. Please forgive me for my advancement and engaging in your service. Hare Krishna. Srila Prabhupada ki jaya! [applause]